Creative ways to wake up

Question:

In article <b234c06.0411171734.54040…@posting.google.com>,  laph…@gmail.com (LaphLaw) wrote: > > Instead of trying to treat the symptom, why aren’t you trying to find > > the cause of your sleep problems? > > Regards, > > Lee in Toronto > Well I know that part of the problem is that I stay up too late the > night before.  I’m trying to cut back on that.  But still, I need that > extra "umph" to get me out of bed on days that I just don’t feel like > it.  Like I said, an alarm clock just isn’t enough.  I think that > water in the face would be the ultimate solution.  I’m surprised no > one makes such a thing…

get yourself an addiction. Nothing like a craving to get you out of bed in the morning. Or maybe you need to turn your life around and find a good reason to get out of bed. Max

Response:

LaphLaw wrote: > > Instead of trying to treat the symptom, why aren’t you trying to find > > the cause of your sleep problems? > > Regards, > > Lee in Toronto > Well I know that part of the problem is that I stay up too late the > night before.  I’m trying to cut back on that.

Can you fall asleep when going to bed earlier? Is it easy for you to stay up late?? If you always were a night-owl check into Delayed Sleep Phase syndrome and see if that might fit you. How do you feel during the day? More tired then others around you, just fine, or??  But still, I need that – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> extra "umph" to get me out of bed on days that I just don’t feel like > it.  Like I said, an alarm clock just isn’t enough.  I think that > water in the face would be the ultimate solution.  I’m surprised no > one makes such a thing…

Response:

> Can you fall asleep when going to bed earlier? Is it easy for you to > stay up late?? If you always were a night-owl check into Delayed Sleep > Phase syndrome and see if that might fit you. > How do you feel during the day? More tired then others around you, just > fine, or??

It’s easy for me to stay up late, but hard for me to fall asleep early.  It usually takes me at least half an hour to an hour to fall asleep, if not more.  I tend to think about what I did that day, and it’s like my brain won’t shut off… it keeps thinking.  I know you’re supposed to think of something relaxing, or don’t think at all, but sometimes that takes so much effort… I just naturally go back to thinking about how my day went.  It’s easier once I get into a routine, though…  the problem is the weekends.  That’s when I sleep in until 11, sometimes 12, and I know that throws me off. During the day, I feel tired.  I don’t feel refreshed.  Of course, many times I’m just sitting at school listening to a boring professor, so that probably has something to do with it. Another problem is, once I actually do get up, staying awake.  On some days, I don’t have class until 9:30, so if I get up at 7 (my target time), I don’t have anything to do.  I could do homework, but I always doze off and fall asleep since I’m *so* tired.  The only thing that might keep me awake is to run a mile or something, but I don’t have the discipline or committment to do that.  I might convince myself to do it once or twice during the week, but after that I would just crash. The biggest problem is that I just feel really tired in the morning. It takes an immense amount of discipline to get up and stay up, and sometimes I feel so tired that I just say "screw it".

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -laph…@gmail.com (LaphLaw) writes: > I have had a huge problem throughout my *whole* life of getting up on > time. I think that if I could master getting up early every day, my > life would be much better off. > I’ve tried many things, from putting my alarm clock across the room, > to turning on several alarm clocks. Sometimes this works, but it > usually doesn’t. I’ll just get up, pull the plug on my alarm, and go > back to bed, telling myself "Ah, screw it!" I have such a different > attitude in the morning. Every night, I’m always thinking to myself, > "Okay, this is it. I’m GONNA get up tomorrow". But once morning comes > and I hear the alarm (*if* I hear it), my mindset is completely > different.  Not to mention that my sleep never seems refreshing.  I > usually wake up feeling like a bus just hit me.  Strangely, I’ve > noticed that sometimes if I stay up real late (I’m a night owl) until > like 2 a.m., when I wake up the next morning, I don’t feel that tired, > and I actually feel more refreshed than on days where I get more > sleep.  Of course, the next couple of days I usually crash and sleep > in till 11.  ;) > That said, I’ve been trying to come up with different ways of getting > up. I’m trying to come up with a way to place a bucket of water over > my head.  When it’s time to get up, I want to somehow make it fall on > my face.  As funny as it sounds, I feel like it’s the only way to get > me out of bed.  The old alarm clock just doesn’t do it for me. > Does anyone have some creative/different ideas? The more twisted and > unorthodox the better!

I would echo the sentiments expressed by others — first get a sleep study done to see if you are getting enough quality sleep time.  You might need a CPAP machine like many of us in the group. The other thought is there are lamps for dealing with SAD (seasonal attitude disorder) that include lamps that simulate dawn to start waking you up natually.  I did a google, and this is the first product that came up, but there are many similar products out there: http://www.lighttherapyproducts.com/products_dawn.html — Michael Meissner email: mrmn…@the-meissners.org http://www.the-meissners.org

Response:

Affix timed electrodes to yourself? — ~John "LaphLaw" <laph…@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:b234c06.0411162031.245455ae@posting.google.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have had a huge problem throughout my *whole* life of getting up on > time. I think that if I could master getting up early every day, my > life would be much better off. > I’ve tried many things, from putting my alarm clock across the room, > to turning on several alarm clocks. Sometimes this works, but it > usually doesn’t. I’ll just get up, pull the plug on my alarm, and go > back to bed, telling myself "Ah, screw it!" I have such a different > attitude in the morning. Every night, I’m always thinking to myself, > "Okay, this is it. I’m GONNA get up tomorrow". But once morning comes > and I hear the alarm (*if* I hear it), my mindset is completely > different.  Not to mention that my sleep never seems refreshing.  I > usually wake up feeling like a bus just hit me.  Strangely, I’ve > noticed that sometimes if I stay up real late (I’m a night owl) until > like 2 a.m., when I wake up the next morning, I don’t feel that tired, > and I actually feel more refreshed than on days where I get more > sleep.  Of course, the next couple of days I usually crash and sleep > in till 11.  ;) > That said, I’ve been trying to come up with different ways of getting > up. I’m trying to come up with a way to place a bucket of water over > my head.  When it’s time to get up, I want to somehow make it fall on > my face.  As funny as it sounds, I feel like it’s the only way to get > me out of bed.  The old alarm clock just doesn’t do it for me. > Does anyone have some creative/different ideas? The more twisted and > unorthodox the better!

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.797 / Virus Database: 541 – Release Date: 11/15/2004

Response:

I have had a huge problem throughout my *whole* life of getting up on time. I think that if I could master getting up early every day, my life would be much better off. I’ve tried many things, from putting my alarm clock across the room, to turning on several alarm clocks. Sometimes this works, but it usually doesn’t. I’ll just get up, pull the plug on my alarm, and go back to bed, telling myself "Ah, screw it!" I have such a different attitude in the morning. Every night, I’m always thinking to myself, "Okay, this is it. I’m GONNA get up tomorrow". But once morning comes and I hear the alarm (*if* I hear it), my mindset is completely different.  Not to mention that my sleep never seems refreshing.  I usually wake up feeling like a bus just hit me.  Strangely, I’ve noticed that sometimes if I stay up real late (I’m a night owl) until like 2 a.m., when I wake up the next morning, I don’t feel that tired, and I actually feel more refreshed than on days where I get more sleep.  Of course, the next couple of days I usually crash and sleep in till 11.  ;) That said, I’ve been trying to come up with different ways of getting up. I’m trying to come up with a way to place a bucket of water over my head.  When it’s time to get up, I want to somehow make it fall on my face.  As funny as it sounds, I feel like it’s the only way to get me out of bed.  The old alarm clock just doesn’t do it for me. Does anyone have some creative/different ideas? The more twisted and unorthodox the better!

Response:

Lee Babcock <leebabc…@rogers.com> wrote in news:CrSdnc_S7qjLlgHcRVn-vQ@rogers.com: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> LaphLaw wrote: >>>Instead of trying to treat the symptom, why aren’t you trying to find >>>the cause of your sleep problems? >> Well I know that part of the problem is that I stay up too late the >> night before.  I’m trying to cut back on that.  But still, I need >> that extra "umph" to get me out of bed on days that I just don’t feel >> like it.  Like I said, an alarm clock just isn’t enough.  I think >> that water in the face would be the ultimate solution.  I’m surprised >> no one makes such a thing… > When my son was in his teens, he wouldn’t get up in the morning. > Solved the probem with the application of a hand full of ice cubes in > the front of his jockeys.  Only took a couple of times. > If you can find someone BRAVE enough! <g>

In the military we often had to train people to get up to their alarms. We had people put multiple alarms around the room and even locked in a wall locker and STILL not make it to work. With alittle effort (much like your example) we proved that the real barrier is that they have to WANT to get up more than they want to sleep. Sufficient fear of not getting up is one way but can have bad side-effects. Still, it is a workable answer. Gandalf  Parker

Response:

laph…@gmail.com (LaphLaw) wrote in news:b234c06.0411171734.54040ae4 @posting.google.com: > Well I know that part of the problem is that I stay up too late the > night before.  I’m trying to cut back on that.  But still, I need that > extra "umph" to get me out of bed on days that I just don’t feel like > it.  Like I said, an alarm clock just isn’t enough.  I think that > water in the face would be the ultimate solution.  I’m surprised no > one makes such a thing…

You might not believe this but you might be desperate enough to try it. It does work for many people. As you are nodding off, picture a clock and see it advance to the time you want to get up, picture yourself leaping out of bed and doing the first few things you do each morning. Or what you want to do insead of what you really do.  :)  (such as brushing your teeth instead of slapping the clock and rolling over). Go to sleep with that routine running in your head. For some people, not only does it make a difference, but they find that they actually get up at that time ahead of the alarm going off. Gandalf  Parker

Response:

LaphLaw wrote: >>Instead of trying to treat the symptom, why aren’t you trying to find >>the cause of your sleep problems? >>Regards, >>Lee in Toronto > Well I know that part of the problem is that I stay up too late the > night before.  I’m trying to cut back on that.  But still, I need that > extra "umph" to get me out of bed on days that I just don’t feel like > it.  Like I said, an alarm clock just isn’t enough.  I think that > water in the face would be the ultimate solution.  I’m surprised no > one makes such a thing…

When my son was in his teens, he wouldn’t get up in the morning.  Solved   the probem with the application of a hand full of ice cubes in the front of his jockeys.  Only took a couple of times. If you can find someone BRAVE enough! <g> Regards Lee in Toronto

Response:

> Instead of trying to treat the symptom, why aren’t you trying to find > the cause of your sleep problems? > Regards, > Lee in Toronto

Well I know that part of the problem is that I stay up too late the night before.  I’m trying to cut back on that.  But still, I need that extra "umph" to get me out of bed on days that I just don’t feel like it.  Like I said, an alarm clock just isn’t enough.  I think that water in the face would be the ultimate solution.  I’m surprised no one makes such a thing…

Response:

"LaphLaw" <laph…@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:b234c06.0411171734.54040ae4@posting.google.com… > > Instead of trying to treat the symptom, why aren’t you trying to find > > the cause of your sleep problems? > > Regards, > > Lee in Toronto > Well I know that part of the problem is that I stay up too late the > night before.  I’m trying to cut back on that.  But still, I need that > extra "umph" to get me out of bed on days that I just don’t feel like > it.  Like I said, an alarm clock just isn’t enough.  I think that > water in the face would be the ultimate solution.  I’m surprised no > one makes such a thing…

The BEST way to wake up, by far, IF (and only if) you use a CPAP machine is a standard wall timer. Plug your CPAP machine into the timer, and have the power set to turn OFF when you want to wake up.     Gary (works like a charm every time) Rimar

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -LaphLaw wrote: > I have had a huge problem throughout my *whole* life of getting up on > time. I think that if I could master getting up early every day, my > life would be much better off. > I’ve tried many things, from putting my alarm clock across the room, > to turning on several alarm clocks. Sometimes this works, but it > usually doesn’t. I’ll just get up, pull the plug on my alarm, and go > back to bed, telling myself "Ah, screw it!" I have such a different > attitude in the morning. Every night, I’m always thinking to myself, > "Okay, this is it. I’m GONNA get up tomorrow". But once morning comes > and I hear the alarm (*if* I hear it), my mindset is completely > different.  Not to mention that my sleep never seems refreshing.  I > usually wake up feeling like a bus just hit me.  Strangely, I’ve > noticed that sometimes if I stay up real late (I’m a night owl) until > like 2 a.m., when I wake up the next morning, I don’t feel that tired, > and I actually feel more refreshed than on days where I get more > sleep.  Of course, the next couple of days I usually crash and sleep > in till 11.  ;) > That said, I’ve been trying to come up with different ways of getting > up. I’m trying to come up with a way to place a bucket of water over > my head.  When it’s time to get up, I want to somehow make it fall on > my face.  As funny as it sounds, I feel like it’s the only way to get > me out of bed.  The old alarm clock just doesn’t do it for me. > Does anyone have some creative/different ideas? The more twisted and > unorthodox the better!

Instead of trying to treat the symptom, why aren’t you trying to find the cause of your sleep problems? Regards, Lee in Toronto

Response:

On 16 Nov 2004 20:31:38 -0800, LaphLaw babbled: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have had a huge problem throughout my *whole* life of getting up on > time. I think that if I could master getting up early every day, my > life would be much better off. > I’ve tried many things, from putting my alarm clock across the room, > to turning on several alarm clocks. Sometimes this works, but it > usually doesn’t. I’ll just get up, pull the plug on my alarm, and go > back to bed, telling myself "Ah, screw it!" I have such a different > attitude in the morning. Every night, I’m always thinking to myself, > "Okay, this is it. I’m GONNA get up tomorrow". But once morning comes > and I hear the alarm (*if* I hear it), my mindset is completely > different.  Not to mention that my sleep never seems refreshing.  I > usually wake up feeling like a bus just hit me.  Strangely, I’ve > noticed that sometimes if I stay up real late (I’m a night owl) until > like 2 a.m., when I wake up the next morning, I don’t feel that tired, > and I actually feel more refreshed than on days where I get more > sleep.  Of course, the next couple of days I usually crash and sleep > in till 11.  ;) > That said, I’ve been trying to come up with different ways of getting > up. I’m trying to come up with a way to place a bucket of water over > my head.  When it’s time to get up, I want to somehow make it fall on > my face.  As funny as it sounds, I feel like it’s the only way to get > me out of bed.  The old alarm clock just doesn’t do it for me. > Does anyone have some creative/different ideas? The more twisted and > unorthodox the better!

Train a pet rat to come and nip you on the nose.

Response:

Newbie – approx diagnosis wanted!

Question:

Hi all, I’m new ‘ere and have read a few posts but cant see anyone with my issues but saw a TV program about a guy who had some of my issues so i figured I might get somewhere here. Since I was 6 I’ve not slept properly – always go to bed late and could sleep in late if I let myself but I have to get up for work. I’ll try to shorten this by bulletpointing where I can: 1) Cant sleep before 2am at the earliest (sometimes 3:30), my mind finds something (anything) to think about. And I dont mean worry, i have no stresses AT ALL in my life (lucky me). I just think about what I’d like to do with this, or what i might do tomorrow etc. Again, I must stress, im the worlds most laid back person lol. 2) If I lie in bed I just get restless and more and more frustrated until i get up and do something. Once I’ve got up I’ll be awake through til 330. 3) if left alone I’d sleep until 10am ish, but I have to get up at 7:30. I dont feel too bad from this but I can easily sleep again on the train on the way too and from work. If I sleep the full 35 mins on the train I’m awake and lively, if I sleep just a few stops I’m in a foul mood lol. 4) One beer will have me conked out from 10pm til 10am unless I force myself to stay awake! I’ve started to feel that its affecting my body recently – just memory and eyes starting to feel a little unhappy by the end of the day. Thing is I dont seem to be able to go back to normal. I’ve tried sleep restriction (getting up earlier or going to bed later) but no effect from this – i seem to survive as well on a week of 4 hour sleeps as on a week of 8 hour sleeps. I’ve tried forcing myself to sleep 11-6 but that just drives me nuts. I’ve tried staying awake for 3 days in a row (wasnt too hard to be honest but I did get grouchy lol) and hoping to make myself knackered and reset myself. forced myself to try to sleep 11-7 for the next few nights but again I always go back to 2or3 – 7:30. I just cant sleep at normal times. Yet somehow I dont feel 100% from it. Any ideas greatly appreciated. James

Response:

It would seem to me that your circadian rythm is all out of whack.  You can reset your incternal ‘clock’ with a light box.  There are some very good sites with instructions on how to use a lite box to do this, plus they are also used to treat SAD (seasonal affective disorder) as well so you might even end up happier as a result, he,he.  The one I have used for the last year in order to reset my ‘clock’ is called the Litebook. It is small (about the size of a small book) and portable with a carrying case and fits in a purse (if you carry a purse, he,he).  I can take it anywhere with me.  It is powerful.  Check out the site at www.litebook.com There is alot of info there. There are also some other good sites which people have posted here regarding lite boxes to change your circadian rythm. If I find them I will post them for you.

Response:

Ok, here is the site you need to check out.   http://www.apollolight.com They have a little test you can take to see if you need to reset your circadian rhythm and then design a specific method for your particular needs.  All free and instant.  Worth checking out. (You do need a lite box of some sort though to follow their plan).

Response:

ok this sounds like Delayed sleep phase syndrome. In this disorder, the biological clock, located deep in the brain, slows down. Its mostly found in  adolescent kids . A patient with delayed sleep phase syndrome doesn’t begin to feel sleepy until the wee hours of the morning. When normal waking time rolls around, he or she is in deep sleep and quite difficult to wake. And, because the mechanism that triggers drowsiness is delayed, going to bed early doesn’t help. Until the biological clock enters sleep mode, the patient will toss and turn for hours. Does That sound Like you ? Trying  the supplement Melatonin plus this other stuff on the web link below. This all  should help yea out. The light therapy already talked about in the last thread  is a part of  the Treatment for it. Treatment for it can be found Here   www.sleepdisorderchannel.net/dsps/treatment.shtml

Response:

Coyoteboy wrote: > Since I was 6 I’ve not slept properly – always go to bed late and

I agree that you should check out DSPS ( delayed sleep phase syndrome). By all means try out the different methods to get into a normal sleeping pattern. But with the comment above, it is very likely that being awake till the wee hours is normal for you, and in that case nothing might work. I am like that; basically born to sleep when it gets light. It seems for me as I was getting older the problem started to be more pronounced as getting by on little sleep became harder. Good luck

Response:

"DocVoodoo" <bjn…@hotmail.com> wrote in message > Does That sound Like you ?

Precisely like me in fact. I’m so asleep when i have to wake up that i can a) forget everything I’ve done in the first hour after getting up by the time lunch rolls around and b)can have entire conversations with people from my bed, sounds awake, answer sensibly, but not know anything of it when i get up. This has led to some arguments lol > Trying  the supplement Melatonin plus this other stuff on the web link > below. This all  should help yea out. The light therapy already talked > about in the last thread  is a part of  the Treatment for it. > Treatment for it can be found Here   > www.sleepdisorderchannel.net/dsps/treatment.shtml

Cheers for the links, I’ll give these solutions a shot. I kind of like being able to stay awake into the early hours, its just the feeling like death the next day I dnt like! Cheers James

Response:

> Trying  the supplement Melatonin plus this other stuff on the web link

If Melatonin doesn’t work, try Valerin. I use it periodically as a last resort and have found good results.

Response:

DSPS & Caffeine

Question:

Can taking caffeine in the morning and mid-day help with delayed sleep phase syndrome? Clearly, any caffeine late in the day is a bad idea. But, it seems to me that early and mid-day caffeine might help in two ways: 1. In the morning it gets your brain awake faster so your awake-time starts sooner, so that your sleep-time can come sooner (in the same way early-day exercise can help). If you get up at 9am and mope around half-asleep until noon, your body may not fully count that time as awake-time, and so your body may not think the day has started until late-morning, and thus, your sleep-time won’t come until later than desired. 2. It helps prevent napping. Naps during the day will further delay sleep-time. Caffeine can help prevent that and keep you on schedule. I have not seen any studies advocating caffeine as therapy for DSPS. Is there a reason for that? Is my logic faulty? Caffeine seems to have been demonized, or maybe it’s just too common and not exciting or exotic. Sure, doctors may advocate melatonin or B12, but why not caffeine? People commonly self-medicate themselves with coffee. A zillion people get up in the morning, drink coffee, and have a mid-day coffee break. Are they all making a mistake? Or, have they all figured out a workable therapy for, what is in reality, a sleep disorder?

Response:

Can only give you what is happening with me, but I know I react very strange, read opposite, to certain things, so take it however you want. Your reasoning re walking around half asleep does make sense to me, and even after sleeping 10 hours I do the same. However, caffeine ( cola in my case) does not seem to have any influence on me, not waking up, nor having trouble falling asleep later on. If anything, if I am not sleepy around 2-3 a.m. and then have a cola, guaranteed I am sleepy within 30 min. of drinking the can of coke. Never fails. I have also noticed that when sleepy at around 6 p.m. it doesn’t seem to matter if I then take a 2 hour nap, or keep myself awake ( hoping to fall asleep earlier in the night) with if any difference at all, then taking that nap might make me fall asleep somewhat earlier! in the night ( not over tired??). Very contrary to popular belief. The real advantage there of course is that I would have a more productive evening after the nap. My advise would be to experiment for yourself. Having some caffeine is really not going to kill you and might actually help. I understand you might be trying to live as healthy as possible, but having lousy sleep is not healthy either. Having said that, I do think for those with DSPS it is rather unhealthy to try to keep "normal" hours as I think it is abnormal for our bodies. I think the school of thought that those with DSPS where in the caveman days the ones who protected everyone at night so everyone could sleep worry free, might well have some merit. If you have to work "normal’ hours though it is a real killer, especially the older you get. And people do not understand that you just cannot go earlier to sleep, regardless how tired you are. I have come to realize that tired and sleepy are two very different things. BTW, have you tried light therapy? According to the medical world it is light which will tell the body it is daytime and so they came up with light therapy. Didn’t work for me but does work for others. If you get a lamp be careful if you have blue eyes, red hair etc. You can get burned. Basically anyone sensitive to the sun will have to start real slow with the light. Take care, Paula – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Kev wrote: > 1. In the morning it gets your brain awake faster so your awake-time starts > sooner, so that your sleep-time can come sooner (in the same way early-day

Response:

Nightshift woes…

Question:

I started working nightshift back in October. For the first couple of months it was no problem. But for the last couple of months, its just sapped the life out of me. My work pattern is as follows: Wed/Thurs/Fri (and sometimes Sat): 19:00-0700.  I dont actually have any problem during this time as such – i am usually very tired on the first night of the shift pattern as effectively i’m on the go for 24hours (i cant force myself to sleep in advance of the first nights work). I between each shift, i sleep like a baby during the day – no real problem there. The problem comes once the weeks work is out of the way. When everyone else is settling in to a good nights sleep on Sunday night, i’m tucked up with a book/laptop in front of me wide awake with no prospect of sleep.  I CANT force myself to sleep!  I recently tried out some herbal pills (natrasleep) that are supposed to induce sleep but they obviously werent made for the nightshift worker! During my days off, i feel so dam lethargic and tired.  My eyes are like pee-holes in the snow and i really feel unhealthy and ‘heavy’.  I have to find some form of a solution. Last year I was very active, i would run at least 5 hours a week, ran a half marathon and was hoping to do the same this year but i simply cant do it.  In addition, there were other interests that i followed that i simply cant now – all of my free time is just one big void. I welcome all of your suggestions…

Response:

Martin McGuiness wrote:

<snip> > cant do it.  In addition, there were other interests that i followed > that i simply cant now – all of my free time is just one big void.

no good news… it will only get worse. > I welcome all of your suggestions…

I did four years on nights as a casual on call, so I didn’t even get the pleasure of adjusting the body for an extended period.. one night on, two off, two on, you get the idea, it was all over the place.  The ONLY way I could cope was to allow myself only a couple of hours on the morning after the last shift…so..come off duty, bed at 8am, up again at 10am, but then early to bed that night, probably around 9pm.  I would then sleep through til 7 the next day and feel relatively normal for a day, before beginning all over.  In the end, however, I found that I was "sleeping" all the time.  I could sleep all day after a shift and then again that night…  I probably was already having apnoea back then, and often wonder how much of what I have now was precipitated by working nights for so long..If you can get a day shift, do it.  Nobody should have to work at night.  Your life just disappears into a fog.

Response:

> nights for so long..If you can get a day shift, do it.  Nobody should > have to work at night.  Your life just disappears into a fog.

Night shift should be reserved for those of us who suffer from Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome – my theory is God gave some of us DSPS so there’d always be people who could work effectively through the necessary night shifts! Mind you, our society has created a lot more than "necessary" night shifts – so there probaly aren’t enough of us DSPS sufferers to fill the requirement — Beth in Australia (I am not a medical professional and anything stated in my posts is my opinion only unless specified otherwise) =================== FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://talhost.net/sleep Newsgroup Archives http://talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles

Response:

Tal wrote: >>nights for so long..If you can get a day shift, do it.  Nobody should >>have to work at night.  Your life just disappears into a fog. > Night shift should be reserved for those of us who suffer from Delayed Sleep > Phase Syndrome – my theory is God gave some of us DSPS so there’d always be > people who could work effectively through the necessary night shifts! Mind > you, our society has created a lot more than "necessary" night shifts – so > there probaly aren’t enough of us DSPS sufferers to fill the requirement

on the money there, Beth.  its a killer for sure.  I have a friend who works as a telstra droid on nights in a call centre.  shes getting sicker and sicker and is looking for a medical solution (which if she keeps it up much longer will be necessary), but in fact the ONLY solution (which she doesnt seem to want to follow through on) is to move to dayshift.  $$ is often the driving factor..it was for me.

Response:

Questions about sleep apprehension

Question:

Tal wrote: > You could try the discipline approach…which is hard work, but bound to > make a difference, that simply means……..MAKE yourself go to bed at the > same time every evening, whether you sleep or not, then follow these > "sleep hygiene" guidelines. http://talhost.net/sleep/insomnia.htm

It works. Give it about a week. You’ll nod off like clockwork. — Sojo SEVEN.2.7.2.reply. ASCII stupid question. Get a stupid ANSI

Response:

Hi – Very often I have apprehension about going to sleep at night but don’t know why (AFAIK there are no traumatic sorts of reasons behind it; I’m not taking any kind of medication; it’s not job-related).  It manifests itself by me finding all kinds of reasons to avoid going to bed until far too late at night (or often not at all).  I’ll read too long; things I could’ve done during the day all of a sudden are "must do now" items; I tell myself "six hours of sleep should be plenty" (I need at least or "I’ll wake up tired then it will be easier to go to bed early the next night".  But then I’ll wake up tired the next day only to stay up late again the very next night.  And I read on into the night that next evening even though I’ve been through this loop a million times.  I _know_ it’s not true that if I wake up tired I’ll go to bed earlier the next night because I never, ever do.  But for some reason I keep telling myself that and I can’t seem to stop it.  This has been going on for years. I’ve been fortunate to be off from work for an extended period (no financial problems) and you’d think it would be the perfect time to get some real good sleep.  But I haven’t had two nights in a row of full sleep a single time!  And at this point in time I have no mental stresses that you might be thinking are the problem.  Typically I’ll just "inadvertently" find myself being up far too late and starting the "get up tired" bit.  I could go to sleep at 8-10a but that means I wouldn’t get up until 4-6p and I hate the thought of getting up that late more than the thought of going to bed early.  I feel like I’m fighting against something but don’t know what it is.  I know the cost of going to bed too late.  I know that my justifications are always wrong.  I HATE being tired/groggy all day.  Yet night after night after night I repeat the same pattern! Part of my problem is that when I lay down to sleep my mind is no longer distracted and it races through every thought imagineable.  Sometimes I can overcome it – most of the time I’m just along for the ride where one or two hours will go by and by then I’m into the "get up tired" routine. But I really don’t think this is a cause for the apprehension – it’s more like a symptom of it.  Or maybe there are two problems. I’ve been through all kinds of web sites, books, etc., on relaxing and the like; been to a couple of sleep doctors over the years but nothing ever seems to last more than a night or two.  I feel like I’m trying to fight against something but can’t identify it.  I consider myself a normal person.  And as I said, at this point in time I have no weighty "life" issues I’m stressing over.  This is like a pattern which I know inside and out but can’t get control over.  I don’t know very much about disorders so can anyone tell me if this is some common disorder that there’s a fix for? Mike — mike.ballard–at–earthlink.net   "Roses are red, violets are blue,    I’m schizophrenic and so am I"

Response:

> Very often I have apprehension about going to sleep at night but don’t > know why (AFAIK there are no traumatic sorts of reasons behind it; I’m not > taking any kind of medication; it’s not job-related).  It manifests itself > by me finding all kinds of reasons to avoid going to bed until far too > late at night (or often not at all).   >SNIP<

Hi Mike. You could try the discipline approach…which is hard work, but bound to make a difference, that simply means……..MAKE yourself go to bed at the same time every evening, whether you sleep or not, then follow these "sleep hygiene" guidelines. http://talhost.net/sleep/insomnia.htm You may also want to take a look at the symtpoms of delayed sleep phase syndrome and see if they fit your problem at all – assuming this hasn’t been a short term problem. — Beth in Australia (I am not a medical professional and anything stated in my posts is my opinion only unless specified otherwise) =================== FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://talhost.net/sleep Newsgroup Archives http://talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles Remove my name to reply

Response:

Can't sleep at night

Question:

I’m a newbie to this newsgroup so maybe this topic has been discussed before.  I can sleep pretty well during the day.  If I go to sleep about 7 a.m. then I can be to sleep within 10 minutes or so.  However, I have a terribly difficult time going to sleep at night.  I often lay in bed for 5 hours trying to sleep before I finally give up.  I would simply start sleeping during the days but I need to be up for my work.  So I get up exhausted day after day because I didn’t get any sleep at night.  I’m also quite sleepy in the early evening.  I started waking up at about 8 p.m. and then don’t really get sleepy again until morning.  I haven’t seen a sleep doctor, but I thought some of you might have some thoughts on the problem.

Response:

> I’m a newbie to this newsgroup so maybe this topic has been discussed > before.  I can sleep pretty well during the day.  If I go to sleep about 7 > a.m. then I can be to sleep within 10 minutes or so.  However, I have a > terribly difficult time going to sleep at night.  I often lay in bed for 5 > hours trying to sleep before I finally give up.  I would simply start > sleeping during the days but I need to be up for my work.  So I get up > exhausted day after day because I didn’t get any sleep at night.  I’m also > quite sleepy in the early evening.  I started waking up at about 8 p.m. and > then don’t really get sleepy again until morning.  I haven’t seen a sleep > doctor, but I thought some of you might have some thoughts on the problem.

sounds like Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome – it’s no fun I know.  Some have improvement with the use of Light Therapy where you sit under a special bright light in the morning to try and train your body to react to light the way it should – ie, gets light, you wake up, gets dark, you get sleepy There’s lots of info on DSPS on the net, but i haven’t had a chance to put any on the FAQ website for this newsgroup — Beth in Australia (I am not a medical professional and anything stated in my posts is my opinion only unless specified otherwise) =================== FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://talhost.net/sleep Newsgroup Archives http://talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles Remove my name to reply

Response:

back from mexico

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Amy D <amy…@joimail.com> wrote in message <news:3FE63EC8.85C696F5@joimail.com>… > DrLith wrote: > > "Amy D" <amy…@joimail.com> wrote in message > > news:3FE5F1BD.64867AD4@joimail.com… > > > Not here!  Dinner is at 5:00 and the 19-month-old is in bed at 6:30 pm and >  the 5 > > > year old in bed by 7:00 or 7:30. > > Good god! What time does the 5-yo get up in the morning? My 5-yo sleeps > > about 9-10 hours a night. If I put her to bed at 7, she might be up at 4 am! > He has always had SEVERE self-control problems in the afternoons when he gets > tired.  He always <until now> needed about 12 hours of sleep including > naps……he’s probably a candidate for ritalin but I’m still adamantly refusing > until it becomes a big issue at school.  He goes to kindergarten from 8 am until > 3 pm and they only get a 15 minute recess.  He gets up about 6 am and likes to > go to school to eat breakfast at 7:30 am.  Which works since it’s practically > impossible to get him to eat breakfast at home — and he needs it.   So nowadays > he gets about 11 hours of sleep and he seems to be functioning well at school on > that.  That gives him a couple of hours to blow off steam before dinner and then > we have time to do homework and read books.  He’s a school and homework > "junkie".  We try really hard to maintain the sleep schedule during weekends > and holidays because he absolutely cannot control himself if he’s tired! > amy

Sounds somewhat similar to my DD9. She also needs a lot of sleep or else she gets very cranky. Although all the behavioral issues are saved up for home – it seems she will be on her best behavior all day at school, and when she gets home, she’s on her last thread and just collapses. We give her a lot of leeway in the evenings, time to veg and unwind, and a strictly enforced early bedtime. We learned quickly that it is very helpful to encourage her to get her homework done at afterschool or first thing in the morning before school, because she will be way too tired after dinner to be able to concentrate on the task. Realizing all kids are different and have different sleep needs, as a general rule I think that kindergarteners and grade schoolers need and do better on a lot of sleep — more than 8 hours; that guideline is meant for adults, not growing children! I am usually sad when I hear about parents allowing their kids to stay up past 9. It’s one thing if the child is one of the rare few who can get by on less than 8 hours of sleep, and is content to play or read quietly in their bedroom (my DD11 does this — will settle in bed by 8:30 but sometimes keeps the light on until 10 or 11 — although not as much recently as she seems to be entering puberty and sleeping more than she used to). Anyway, just wanted to commend you on figuring it out and maintaining your son’s sleep schedule. It really is important. As for those who want to put him on ritalin, they pressured me to do this with my DD11 when she was 4, and lucky for me the family pediatrician and a social worker intervened with the preschool. It was explained to me at that time that a true ADD diagnosis cannot be made until a child is at least 8 years of age. Kindergarten? All bets are off. It is *normal* for kids of kindergarten age to adjust to the school routine at different rates. Stand your ground on that one! DD11 is doing very well in school now and there’s not a teacher who would dare suggest she’s ADD at this point. jen

Response:

"shinypenny" <shinypenny0…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:c8cb5319.0312230803.7abe32dc@posting.google.com… > I am usually sad when I hear about parents allowing their kids to stay > up past 9. It’s one thing if the child is one of the rare few who can > get by on less than 8 hours of sleep, and is content to play or read > quietly in their bedroom (my DD11 does this — will settle in bed by > 8:30 but sometimes keeps the light on until 10 or 11 — although not > as much recently as she seems to be entering puberty and sleeping more > than she used to).

Of course, it’s also important to remember when talking about absolute clock-times that not all children (even if they go to school) are on the same schedule during the day. My kids’ bedtime is 9:30-10:00, but they also don’t get up until 7:30 or 8:00.  That’s because they don’t leave for school until 8:45 (and they don’t get home until nearly 4:00, and that’s with no afterschool activities). It’d be a different story if we all had to get up at 5:30 am. Before my sister’s daughter started school, she used to stay up until 10 or 11 pm. But that’s because both mom and dad worked retail hours, not office hours. NOBODY in that house got up before 8, and she usually didn’t go to daycare until 10 or 11. But by the same token, nobody was home before 7 or 8 pm. It was, in reality, just like a "normal" schedule, except timeshifted forward about 2-3 hours.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Shashay Doofray wrote: > > He has always had SEVERE self-control problems in the afternoons when he > gets > > tired.  He always <until now> needed about 12 hours of sleep including > > naps……he’s probably a candidate for ritalin but I’m still adamantly > refusing > > until it becomes a big issue at school.  He goes to kindergarten from 8 am > until > > 3 pm and they only get a 15 minute recess.  He gets up about 6 am and > likes to > > go to school to eat breakfast at 7:30 am.  Which works since it’s > practically > > impossible to get him to eat breakfast at home — and he needs it.   So > nowadays > > he gets about 11 hours of sleep and he seems to be functioning well at > school on > > that.  That gives him a couple of hours to blow off steam before dinner > and then > > we have time to do homework and read books.  He’s a school and homework > > "junkie".  We try really hard to maintain the sleep schedule during > weekends > > and holidays because he absolutely cannot control himself if he’s tired! > > amy > I’ve had Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome since birth.  My mother says the > morning after she brought me home from the hospital (when I was born), I > slept until 10 am the next day.  She had to wake me up to make sure I was > still alive.  Since that day I have rarely been able to function normally on > less than 10 hours sleep and have no problem, whatsoever sleeping 16 hours > out of 24.  Except I sleep much better during the day than at night. > If you continue to have problems with your kid with regard to sleep, I would > suggest having him checked out for a sleep disorder, it could make a huge > difference in his life and save him from having to take medication that > might cause side effects. > SD

Thanks for the input, SD.  I’ll keep that in mind for sure — I’m always looking for another reason to NOT categorize him into the normal "problem children". I believe this is manageable somehow…..I’ve spent the last five years training him how to live with his different needs….. Although…from what you say I have to think more of "the baby" <I really need to quit calling him that!>.  The nurses at the hospital made me wake him up and I found myself waking him up when we got home.  He has slept all night from birth.  He goes to bed every night at 6:30 like clockwork. I do truly believe that alot of kids <here in the US> DON’T get the proper amount of sleep…..I think my kids are normal. amy

Response:

Igor, You stud! Congrats on the weight loss! Could that child be any cuter??!! Nance Hoping I don’t get any of those stupid MSN emails. On 21 Dec 2003 15:30:17 GMT, Ignoramus32303 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<ignoramus32…@NOSPAM.32303.invalid> wrote: >We had a great time… here’s a pic… >http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/mexico.jpg >Unfortunately, my wife did not want to be photographed, something she >regretted. >i

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> He has always had SEVERE self-control problems in the afternoons when he gets > tired.  He always <until now> needed about 12 hours of sleep including > naps……he’s probably a candidate for ritalin but I’m still adamantly refusing > until it becomes a big issue at school.  He goes to kindergarten from 8 am until > 3 pm and they only get a 15 minute recess.  He gets up about 6 am and likes to > go to school to eat breakfast at 7:30 am.  Which works since it’s practically > impossible to get him to eat breakfast at home — and he needs it.   So nowadays > he gets about 11 hours of sleep and he seems to be functioning well at school on > that.  That gives him a couple of hours to blow off steam before dinner and then > we have time to do homework and read books.  He’s a school and homework > "junkie".  We try really hard to maintain the sleep schedule during weekends > and holidays because he absolutely cannot control himself if he’s tired! > amy

I’ve had Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome since birth.  My mother says the morning after she brought me home from the hospital (when I was born), I slept until 10 am the next day.  She had to wake me up to make sure I was still alive.  Since that day I have rarely been able to function normally on less than 10 hours sleep and have no problem, whatsoever sleeping 16 hours out of 24.  Except I sleep much better during the day than at night. If you continue to have problems with your kid with regard to sleep, I would suggest having him checked out for a sleep disorder, it could make a huge difference in his life and save him from having to take medication that might cause side effects. SD

Response:

Gees, I was really drunk last night wasn’t I? "urf" <u…@nospam.com> wrote in message

news:qdOdnbXQ6NQ6xXuiRVn-gw@comcast.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I love the beach at Playa Del Carmen. Estelle and I have been going ther > efor 20 years. When > we first went ther we were tols it was just a beach off the road near the > jungle. It wasn’t > much more than a sleepy fishing village. Our first trip there was just a two > lane road to Tulum and > a dirt road turn off to Playa Del Carmen. Playacar was being buit about 10 > years ago. It was > very beautiful but we knew it would begin to change everything. We love to > spend the day drinking > in a hammock on the beach out in front of the Blue Parrot. You can get > pretty drunk on $10 for two. > The topless beach rocks for beautiful women. Estelle drops her top everytime > there. She still looks > good too. > "Ignoramus32303" <ignoramus32…@NOSPAM.32303.invalid> wrote in message > news:bs4jpa$4s5$1@pita.alt.net… > > In article <3khbuvgrdr7g1f6h8u4ma708mvjjsip…@4ax.com>, DWB wrote: > > > We’re planning our honeymoon near Playa del Carmen.  Is that where you > > > were?  Any recommendations for accommodations?  Or places to avoid? > > > Thanks! > > Yes, that’s where I was, near playa del carmen (playacar). > > It is a good place, cannot compare it with others, but we had > > everything we needed in the all inclusive package. There were several > > hotels in our area, Riu, Iberostar, and Gala Resorts (where we > > stayed). All seemed similar, but differently decorated. > > i > > > Dave > > > Ignoramus32303 <ignoramus32…@NOSPAM.32303.invalid> wrote: > > >>We had a great time… here’s a pic… > > >>http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/mexico.jpg > > >>Unfortunately, my wife did not want to be photographed, something she > > >>regretted. > > >>i

Response:

"Ignoramus32303" <ignoramus32…@NOSPAM.32303.invalid> wrote in message

news:bs4ea9$no8$1@pita.alt.net… > We had a great time… here’s a pic… > http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/mexico.jpg > Unfortunately, my wife did not want to be photographed, something she > regretted.

Damn, you *did* lose weight (judging from your other pics I’ve seen) Glad you had a good time.

Response:

We’re planning our honeymoon near Playa del Carmen.  Is that where you were?  Any recommendations for accommodations?  Or places to avoid? Thanks! Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ignoramus32303 <ignoramus32…@NOSPAM.32303.invalid> wrote: >We had a great time… here’s a pic… >http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/mexico.jpg >Unfortunately, my wife did not want to be photographed, something she >regretted. >i

Response:

"Ignoramus32303" <ignoramus32…@NOSPAM.32303.invalid> wrote in message

news:bs4jj8$4co$0@pita.alt.net… > Thanks. For pictures of my weightloss, see > http://igor.chudov.com/weightloss/ > i

Congratulations on the weightloss.  Glad to hear you feel so much better. The most amazing part to me, though, is the no eating after 6:00 pm part. I’m not even home till after 6:00 or even 6:30 – it is rare for supper to be ready before 7:30 pm.  I don’t see how people who work a typical schedule manage to have such early evenings.

Response:

>The most amazing part to me, though, is the no eating after 6:00 pm part. >I’m not even home till after 6:00 or even 6:30 – it is rare for supper to be >ready before 7:30 pm.  I don’t see how people who work a typical schedule >manage to have such early evenings.

Joy, that’s us too.  Depending on the day of the week, I leave home at 7 or 7:15, and get home at either 5:15 (M,W, alternate F) or 6:15 or 6:30 (T and Th).  My DH never gets home before 7:30, and 8:30 is more typical. Sheila

Response:

WhansaMi wrote: > >The most amazing part to me, though, is the no eating after 6:00 pm part. > >I’m not even home till after 6:00 or even 6:30 – it is rare for supper to be > >ready before 7:30 pm.  I don’t see how people who work a typical schedule > >manage to have such early evenings. > Joy, that’s us too.  Depending on the day of the week, I leave home at 7 or > 7:15, and get home at either 5:15 (M,W, alternate F) or 6:15 or 6:30 (T and > Th).  My DH never gets home before 7:30, and 8:30 is more typical. > Sheila

Not here!  Dinner is at 5:00 and the 19-month-old is in bed at 6:30 pm and the 5 year old in bed by 7:00 or 7:30. amy

Response:

"Amy D" <amy…@joimail.com> wrote in message

news:3FE5F1BD.64867AD4@joimail.com… > Not here!  Dinner is at 5:00 and the 19-month-old is in bed at 6:30 pm and the 5 > year old in bed by 7:00 or 7:30.

Good god! What time does the 5-yo get up in the morning? My 5-yo sleeps about 9-10 hours a night. If I put her to bed at 7, she might be up at 4 am!

Response:

"Ignoramus32303" <ignoramus32…@NOSPAM.32303.invalid> wrote in message

news:bs4ea9$no8$1@pita.alt.net… > We had a great time… here’s a pic… > http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/mexico.jpg > Unfortunately, my wife did not want to be photographed, something she > regretted.

Alright, Igor. Although you did a great job on the Igor compression, I can see we’re going to have to have a discussion about image compression for the Web. That file was bloated! Did Igor Jr. have fun at the beach?

Response:

DrLith wrote: > "Amy D" <amy…@joimail.com> wrote in message > news:3FE5F1BD.64867AD4@joimail.com… > > Not here!  Dinner is at 5:00 and the 19-month-old is in bed at 6:30 pm and > the 5 > > year old in bed by 7:00 or 7:30. > Good god! What time does the 5-yo get up in the morning? My 5-yo sleeps > about 9-10 hours a night. If I put her to bed at 7, she might be up at 4 am!

He has always had SEVERE self-control problems in the afternoons when he gets tired.  He always <until now> needed about 12 hours of sleep including naps……he’s probably a candidate for ritalin but I’m still adamantly refusing until it becomes a big issue at school.  He goes to kindergarten from 8 am until 3 pm and they only get a 15 minute recess.  He gets up about 6 am and likes to go to school to eat breakfast at 7:30 am.  Which works since it’s practically impossible to get him to eat breakfast at home — and he needs it.   So nowadays he gets about 11 hours of sleep and he seems to be functioning well at school on that.  That gives him a couple of hours to blow off steam before dinner and then we have time to do homework and read books.  He’s a school and homework "junkie".  We try really hard to maintain the sleep schedule during weekends and holidays because he absolutely cannot control himself if he’s tired! amy

Response:

DrLith wrote: > "Amy D" <amy…@joimail.com> wrote in message > news:3FE5F1BD.64867AD4@joimail.com… > > Not here!  Dinner is at 5:00 and the 19-month-old is in bed at 6:30 pm and > the 5 > > year old in bed by 7:00 or 7:30. > Good god! What time does the 5-yo get up in the morning? My 5-yo sleeps > about 9-10 hours a night. If I put her to bed at 7, she might be up at 4 am!

PS.  It is alot easier for him to get the sleep he needs when daylight savings time is over!  He won’t go to bed "when the light is on outside".  It gets dark at 5 pm here. amy

Response:

>> > Not here!  Dinner is at 5:00 and the 19-month-old is in bed at 6:30 pm >and >> the 5 >> > year old in bed by 7:00 or 7:30. >> Good god! What time does the 5-yo get up in the morning? My 5-yo sleeps >> about 9-10 hours a night. If I put her to bed at 7, she might be up at 4 >am! >PS.  It is alot easier for him to get the sleep he needs when daylight >savings >time is over!  He won’t go to bed "when the light is on outside".  It gets >dark at 5 pm here. >amy

My son has always been a nightowl, nor does he need a lot of sleep.  He stopped napping by the age of 2, and has never gone down for the night before 10:00 p.m., even as an infant.  Over the summer months, he stays up until 1:00 or 2:00 a.m. now.  He comes by it naturally — I am a strong nightowl, as is his father. My poor daughter is the only early bird amongst us. Sheila

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -WhansaMi wrote: > >> > Not here!  Dinner is at 5:00 and the 19-month-old is in bed at 6:30 pm > >and > >> the 5 > >> > year old in bed by 7:00 or 7:30. > >> Good god! What time does the 5-yo get up in the morning? My 5-yo sleeps > >> about 9-10 hours a night. If I put her to bed at 7, she might be up at 4 > >am! > >PS.  It is alot easier for him to get the sleep he needs when daylight > >savings > >time is over!  He won’t go to bed "when the light is on outside".  It gets > >dark at 5 pm here. > >amy > My son has always been a nightowl, nor does he need a lot of sleep.  He stopped > napping by the age of 2, and has never gone down for the night before 10:00 > p.m., even as an infant.  Over the summer months, he stays up until 1:00 or > 2:00 a.m. now.  He comes by it naturally — I am a strong nightowl, as is his > father. > My poor daughter is the only early bird amongst us. > Sheila

The baby <I really need to quit calling him that> has slept all night since birth.  I used to blame myself for my older son’s self control issues until the baby was born.  He is the polar opposite.  He has NO issues <yet> like my oldest. And I knew the older one had issues from the moment he started moving around the house on his own.  The baby takes one nap and goes to bed at 6:30 like clockwork and gets up at 6 am.  I’m not sure what I’ll do though when he is ready to move bedtime later and my 5 year old  can’t handle it……… amy

Response:

I love the beach at Playa Del Carmen. Estelle and I have been going ther efor 20 years. When we first went ther we were tols it was just a beach off the road near the jungle. It wasn’t much more than a sleepy fishing village. Our first trip there was just a two lane road to Tulum and a dirt road turn off to Playa Del Carmen. Playacar was being buit about 10 years ago. It was very beautiful but we knew it would begin to change everything. We love to spend the day drinking in a hammock on the beach out in front of the Blue Parrot. You can get pretty drunk on $10 for two. The topless beach rocks for beautiful women. Estelle drops her top everytime there. She still looks good too. "Ignoramus32303" <ignoramus32…@NOSPAM.32303.invalid> wrote in message

news:bs4jpa$4s5$1@pita.alt.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In article <3khbuvgrdr7g1f6h8u4ma708mvjjsip…@4ax.com>, DWB wrote: > > We’re planning our honeymoon near Playa del Carmen.  Is that where you > > were?  Any recommendations for accommodations?  Or places to avoid? > > Thanks! > Yes, that’s where I was, near playa del carmen (playacar). > It is a good place, cannot compare it with others, but we had > everything we needed in the all inclusive package. There were several > hotels in our area, Riu, Iberostar, and Gala Resorts (where we > stayed). All seemed similar, but differently decorated. > i > > Dave > > Ignoramus32303 <ignoramus32…@NOSPAM.32303.invalid> wrote: > >>We had a great time… here’s a pic… > >>http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/mexico.jpg > >>Unfortunately, my wife did not want to be photographed, something she > >>regretted. > >>i

Response:

"DrLith" <drl…@hotmail.com> wrote in message <news:bs5aok$sum$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>… > "Amy D" <amy…@joimail.com> wrote in message > news:3FE5F1BD.64867AD4@joimail.com… > > Not here!  Dinner is at 5:00 and the 19-month-old is in bed at 6:30 pm and >  the 5 > > year old in bed by 7:00 or 7:30. > Good god! What time does the 5-yo get up in the morning? My 5-yo sleeps > about 9-10 hours a night. If I put her to bed at 7, she might be up at 4 am!

My kids have always been pretty good sleepers, especially the youngest, who slept 12 hours through the first night in the hospital, and continued that pattern. She was such an easy baby: would sleep 12 hours at night *and* also take a marathon 3-4 hour nap!! Nowadays, they are both in bed by 8, read until 8:30, and usually DD9 falls asleep minutes later; DD11 may stay up another half hour or so. They both get up by 7 am. Their school recommends kids get to bed no later than 8:30. jen

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -shinypenny wrote: > "DrLith" <drl…@hotmail.com> wrote in message <news:bs5aok$sum$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>… > > "Amy D" <amy…@joimail.com> wrote in message > > news:3FE5F1BD.64867AD4@joimail.com… > > > Not here!  Dinner is at 5:00 and the 19-month-old is in bed at 6:30 pm and > >  the 5 > > > year old in bed by 7:00 or 7:30. > > Good god! What time does the 5-yo get up in the morning? My 5-yo sleeps > > about 9-10 hours a night. If I put her to bed at 7, she might be up at 4 am! > My kids have always been pretty good sleepers, especially the > youngest, who slept 12 hours through the first night in the hospital, > and continued that pattern. She was such an easy baby: would sleep 12 > hours at night *and* also take a marathon 3-4 hour nap!! > Nowadays, they are both in bed by 8, read until 8:30, and usually DD9 > falls asleep minutes later; DD11 may stay up another half hour or so. > They both get up by 7 am. Their school recommends kids get to bed no > later than 8:30. > jen

Okay, I gotta tell a story. I was out in the truck with my husband until "the baby" was born — and he was two weeks late.  10 lb 13 oz.  He slept through the night in the hospital and the nurses kept making me wake him up.  I told them, "Are you freaking nuts???" We had signed on our last "house" an hour before he was born.  The child <two weeks late> REFUSED to be born while living in the truck, I guess. Anyway, my poor husband moved everything out of storage into the house <with the help of a then 4-year-old> before I got out of the hospital.   He hadn’t set up the crib yet because I insisted on getting out a day early.  The crib was still strapped onto the catwalk of the big truck because we brought it to Alabama from his sister in St. Louis. So…the baby slept in a baby bathtub.  And, yes….I found myself resisting the urge to wake him up the first night to make sure he was breathing. Incidently we had 3 acres of land we needed to mow when we bought the "house" — and I mowed it 10 days after a c-section by hand.  I’m not fit to be a mom. amy

Response:

DSP possibility, need advice

Question:

Hi, I posted a while back regarding my inability to wake up in the morning. Some people suggested Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome as why I cannot get myself out of bed. I have a few comments on my sleep, and would appreciate help for me to ID if this is what I really have. -First of all, I have no problem falling asleep at whatever bedtime I choose. I could go to bed at 9pm or midnight, it doesnt matter. I fall right asleep, and sleep through the night. No problem falling asleep at any time I choose. Its not that my body cant fall asleep until its tired or feels liek going to sleep, I could just go to sleep whenever I decide or the situation warrants. -I usually sleep 6-8 hours, and regardless of how much I get, I cant get out of bed at my alarm. -I find that sometimes Ill randomly wake up and feel totally refreshed. I have found that these occasions correlate to when I have had either ~7.5hrs of sleep, or it is around 530am (dont know why that is). -I just hit snooze over and over again, until I realize how many times Ive done this and then get right up. -I can often wake up a short time before my alarm and feel great. I just tell my body to go back to sleep as it isnt the right time to get up, and shortly I fall asleep and then cannot get up for the alarm. -Cafeine and ephedra do nothing for my body (although I am 6′4 and 220), I could nap at any time of the day if I laid down, and occasionally get sleepy spells (usually food related though) when bored after eating, where I cannot focus or stay awake. Today was a good example. I went to bed last night at midnight. Usually trying to go by the 7:30 rule of hours of sleep, I set my alarm to get that much sleep, and dozed right off. This morning, I hit snooze from 7:30 until about 8:45 then got sick of that and turned it off. Dozed off waking twice, and finally woke up with 110% energy at 11:35 am. Sleep the night before was about 6 hours, and thatday I went to bed at 11, got up at 515, and had full energy. I think maybe part of the problem is odd waking times, as sometimes I have to get up at 5, other days its whenever I choose. I do know that I went on vacation for 10 days. As an experiment I went to bed at 9-10pm every night, and planed to get up at 7-8 am every day. I had the same problem when I had an overabundance of sleep for a somewhat extended period of time. I couldnt get up unless I was physically shaken and bothered for some time to wake me up, and even then I felt quite groggy. So thats my story… Any suggestions? Thanks so much, JMH

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> -First of all, I have no problem falling asleep at whatever bedtime I > choose. I could go to bed at 9pm or midnight, it doesnt matter. I fall > right asleep, and sleep through the night. No problem falling asleep at any > time I choose. Its not that my body cant fall asleep until its tired or > feels liek going to sleep, I could just go to sleep whenever I decide or > the situation warrants. > -I usually sleep 6-8 hours, and regardless of how much I get, I cant get > out of bed at my alarm. > -I find that sometimes Ill randomly wake up and feel totally refreshed. I > have found that these occasions correlate to when I have had either ~7.5hrs > of sleep, or it is around 530am (dont know why that is). > -I just hit snooze over and over again, until I realize how many times Ive > done this and then get right up. > -I can often wake up a short time before my alarm and feel great. I just > tell my body to go back to sleep as it isnt the right time to get up, and > shortly I fall asleep and then cannot get up for the alarm. > -Cafeine and ephedra do nothing for my body (although I am 6′4 and 220), I > could nap at any time of the day if I laid down, and occasionally get > sleepy spells (usually food related though) when bored after eating, where > I cannot focus or stay awake.

based on this additional information there may be more going on.  I get the impression MOST of the time, you’re tired throughout the day….right?  You mentinoed being able to nap pretty much any time of the day (you can’t nap if you’re not tired) .  This may be an indication that when you DO sleep, regardless of the time, you’re not getting QUALITY sleep, there could be a number of reasons for this, the only way to find out is through a sleep study. I would recommend, that you try REALLY hard for a month or two to practice good "sleep hygene".  Importantly, as well as the other things listed here http://www.talhost.net/sleep/insomnia.htm , TRY and go to sleep and get up at regular times for this trial and see what kind of difference that makes to the way you feel throughout the day.  Most people find that they need some kind of routine in terms of sleep times to feel properly rested. It might also pay to keep a sleep diary during this time to better understand your sleeping habits etc.  There’s a link to one on the LINKS page of the same website. Please make sure you keep us updated as to how you’re progressing. — Beth in Australia (I am not a medical professional and anything stated in my posts is my opinion only unless specified otherwise) =================== FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://talhost.net/sleep Newsgroup Archives http://talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles Remove my name to reply

Response:

"JMH" <jm…@pleasetakethisoutitisagainstspam.yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:9407F32E4jmh58@192.168.1.100… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi, > I posted a while back regarding my inability to wake up in the morning. > Some people suggested Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome as why I cannot get > myself out of bed. I have a few comments on my sleep, and would appreciate > help for me to ID if this is what I really have. > -First of all, I have no problem falling asleep at whatever bedtime I > choose. I could go to bed at 9pm or midnight, it doesnt matter. I fall > right asleep, and sleep through the night. No problem falling asleep at any > time I choose. Its not that my body cant fall asleep until its tired or > feels liek going to sleep, I could just go to sleep whenever I decide or > the situation warrants. > -I usually sleep 6-8 hours, and regardless of how much I get, I cant get > out of bed at my alarm. > -I find that sometimes Ill randomly wake up and feel totally refreshed. I > have found that these occasions correlate to when I have had either ~7.5hrs > of sleep, or it is around 530am (dont know why that is). > -I just hit snooze over and over again, until I realize how many times Ive > done this and then get right up. > -I can often wake up a short time before my alarm and feel great. I just > tell my body to go back to sleep as it isnt the right time to get up, and > shortly I fall asleep and then cannot get up for the alarm. > -Cafeine and ephedra do nothing for my body (although I am 6′4 and 220), I > could nap at any time of the day if I laid down, and occasionally get > sleepy spells (usually food related though) when bored after eating, where > I cannot focus or stay awake. > Today was a good example. I went to bed last night at midnight. Usually > trying to go by the 7:30 rule of hours of sleep, I set my alarm to get that > much sleep, and dozed right off. This morning, I hit snooze from 7:30 until > about 8:45 then got sick of that and turned it off. Dozed off waking twice, > and finally woke up with 110% energy at 11:35 am. Sleep the night before > was about 6 hours, and thatday I went to bed at 11, got up at 515, and had > full energy. > I think maybe part of the problem is odd waking times, as sometimes I have > to get up at 5, other days its whenever I choose. > I do know that I went on vacation for 10 days. As an experiment I went to > bed at 9-10pm every night, and planed to get up at 7-8 am every day. I had > the same problem when I had an overabundance of sleep for a somewhat > extended period of time. I couldnt get up unless I was physically shaken > and bothered for some time to wake me up, and even then I felt quite > groggy. > So thats my story… Any suggestions? > Thanks so much, > JMH

Well, JMH some of your symptoms are consistent with DSPS and some of them aren’t.   I have had DSPS since day one and I know from personal experience that I can always sleep better during the day than at night.  Generally speaking I can sleep any time during the day regardless of how much sleep I have had the night before, but once it starts getting around 4 pm or so, I get a lot of energy.  Usually, I will get sleepy right after dinner, which for me is usually around 8 pm, but if I don’t go to sleep then I will be up all night for sure. Research has proven that all of us have a circadian rhythm (sure hope I spelled that right), when our body naturally wants to be awake and when it wants to sleep.  Unfortunately for us DSPS people, our rhythm doesn’t coincide with the rest of civilization.  And because of that our lives are pretty messed up. Let me ask you a couple of questions.  First of all, do you have incredibly vivid dreams?  Do you find that if you wake up in the middle of a dream that is the hardest time to wake up?  Has your sleep pattern significantly impacted your life in any way? I find that if I wake up and I am not in the middle of a dream that it is much easier for me to get up than it is if I am mid-dream.  I too find that if I wake up on my own (rather than being awakened), that it is at the end of a dream and it is not so hard for me to get up.  Of course, knowing this doesn’t really help much when you have to get out of bed. I have tried many times to get some answers to this problem and usually I get the same ones over and over.  First somebody tells me that I should go to a sleep clinic because it might not be DSPS but some other insidious disorder that is robbing me of my sleep (in this ng it is sleep apnea.  They should just rename this ng alt.disorders.sleep-apnea).  Then they will tell you about light therapy and time adjustment therapy that will "reset" your circadian rhythm to normal.  This stuff works for some people. But it sure doesn’t work for me. I find that the only thing that works for me are drugs.  When I have something really important to do I take a phentermine the day before.  It makes my sleep much more shallow and I don’t dream very much thus allowing me to get up eaiser the next day.  It also gives me a lot of energy and I can really get my house cleaned!  Also, if I have to do a lot of driving I take and Adrafinil (available over the internet only), which really helps me from being sleepy if I have to get up early.  It is also beneficial if it is necessary to think before noon.  Which, if you are like me (and I think you are), is almost impossible if you have gotten up early. I wish I could do more to help.  Recognizing the problem is a big help because that way you will at least be able to understand what is going on. But it is a very difficult disorder to deal with.  I know, it’s been more than 40 years for me.  Find as much information as you can.  Try everything. Hopefully something will work.  Good luck. SD

Response:

(snip snip) > Well, JMH some of your symptoms are consistent with DSPS and some > of them aren’t.  

(snip snip) anyone know of any good, valid web sites for DSPS?  I didnt seem to find much when I looked for it. Thanks Wendy —

Response:

my problems

Question:

Thanks.. yeah i’m pretty sure I have DSPS Also i’m noticing that with this zopiclone, I am sleeping at night, but not getting rested.. When I dont sleep properly I notice shortness of breath during the day, but as long as I get a decent sleep I dont feel it at all.. For the last week i’ve slept at night (with zopiclone) and have had shortness of breath every day this week.. I just want to sleep all day so this will go away..  it seems my body doesn’t get proper rest unless its during the day.. make any sense?.. or will it eventually correct itself in time and should i stick to sleeping nights,.. not bieng able to breath well is driving me nuts and I dont know how much longer I can handle it..

Response:

> I’m sick of sleeping all day (its been so nice out lately) and have recently > quit my job and am looking to get a day job eventually.  I’ve gotten some > imovane (zopiclone) from the doctor which has been helping me sleep at night > but i’m not getting a restful sleep (lack of rem sleep?) even though i’ve > been sleeping 7 or 8hrs straight at night for the last week.

It sounds like you have (whether you’ve always had it or it’s just a result of the night hours you started to work) Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome.  You probably need to reset your body clock.  From what I hear, the most effective way of doing this is via light therapy.  While it’s summer there, the best thing to do is get up early and sit outside in the sun (not necessarily directly – don’t want to get sunburn) for half an hour, perhaps read a book or something.  The sunlight is a vital part of our body’s mechanism to regulate our sleep.  You can also get special light boxes that will do the same thing, and in Australia they’ve been testing a form of "light box" that is incorporated into a special pair of glasses you wear for half an hour in the mornings… whether or not they work or are available to the public i have no idea. If you search Google you’ll find plenty info on light box therapy & DSPS — Beth in Australia =================== FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://talhost.net/sleep Newsgroup Archives http://talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles Remove my name to reply

Response:

Hello, heres my situation: For years i’ve been sleeping during the day and up all night.. it suited my job because i was working evenings, i’d sleep until 2 or 3, get up, go to work (feel great), come home or do whatever until 5am and then go to sleep (generally with no problems).. I’m sick of sleeping all day (its been so nice out lately) and have recently quit my job and am looking to get a day job eventually.  I’ve gotten some imovane (zopiclone) from the doctor which has been helping me sleep at night but i’m not getting a restful sleep (lack of rem sleep?) even though i’ve been sleeping 7 or 8hrs straight at night for the last week. Also I cant sleep now without some kind of meds.. and the days are getting tougher and tougher on me.. I’ve tried changing my schedule a few times and it seems that I only get a restful sleep during the day.. will my sleeping at night eventually get more restful if I just keep it up?.. I know that if i just stay up all night and sleep all day i’ll feel great when I wake up but thats what i’m trying to avoid.. If anyone has gone through this any help would be greatly appreciated.. (hope this makes sense, its hard to think when you dont sleep well).. Thanks – Josh

Response:

Yet Another Insomniac

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -mongoose wrote: > Hey, > In recent years I’ve had increasingly worstening inability to sleep, at the > stage now where I can go a night or several without sleep. I only manage to get > by as I have a more flexible wake-up time as a student. > I have a feeling that it may be a side-effect of axiety/depression > (self-diagnosed), although I doubt there is a causal relationship. It is not > usually anxious thoughts which keep me awake at night. I think it comes down to > a fundamental inability to rest my mind. > Usually when my mind is troubled by anxious thoughts, I toss and turn and get up > every 20-30 mins to distract my mind, and return to attempt to sleep when I am > again tired. This is sometimes succesful, but these nights were more frequent in > the past, and whose occurences are now more infrequent. > The common pattern now is that after lying down to sleep, I enter a > semi-conscious state, where thoughts rush through my head but I am not > completely conscious of my state of awareness. After a seemingly short-period of > time I wake/rise to find that many hours have passed, often waking to find it is > early morning. I sometimes can get to sleep at this time, and once I get to > sleep I can sleep for 6+ hours. > I know that people can drift into and out of sleep, and not be conscious of > this, but I’m usually aware when I have slept even for short periods of time, > although perhaps this is just deep sleep? When I wake/rise in the early morning > I feel as if I have not slept, and am mentally/physically fatigued. Less than > one hour of good quality sleep leaves me immeasurably more rested. > I have visited a sleep-doctor before, and only got the usual spiel about sleep > hygiene. I’ve not yet tried any drugs, with my parents reluctant for me to use > them, and the GP reluctant to prescribe them. I realise that this is obviously > only a short-term solution. > I’ve also tried meditative breathing exercises without much success. I guess its > the awareness of the intent to relax myself, and the need to be relaxed, which > can be a hindrance to the process. I can sometimes fall asleep watching the > television, when my intent is not to sleep. > If anyone has had similar experiences, or any advice to offer, it would be > appreciated. > Thanks, > mongoose

You need a different sleep doctor!  And quickly. Regards Lee in Toronto ———–== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Uncensored Usenet News ==———-    http://www.newsfeed.com       The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–= Over 100,000 Newsgroups – Unlimited Fast Downloads – 19 Servers =—–

Response:

In article <pan.2003.02.09.14.23.08.433711.1…@bar.foo>, mongoose <u…@bar.foo> wrote: > In recent years I’ve had increasingly worstening inability to sleep, at the > stage now where I can go a night or several without sleep. I only manage to > get by as I have a more flexible wake-up time as a student. > I have a feeling that it may be a side-effect of axiety/depression > (self-diagnosed), although I doubt there is a causal relationship. It is not > usually anxious thoughts which keep me awake at night. I think it comes down > to a fundamental inability to rest my mind.

[snip] > I have visited a sleep-doctor before, and only got the usual spiel about sleep > hygiene. I’ve not yet tried any drugs, with my parents reluctant for me to use > them, and the GP reluctant to prescribe them. I realise that this is obviously > only a short-term solution.

Not necessarily. These days, there are drugs that affect both depression and sleep that aren’t addictive barbituates. What may help is an anti-depressant that has secondary sleep effects and/or secondary anti-anxiety effects. One I’ve used in the former category is Elavil (a tricyclic antidepressant, quite inexpensive) and one I’ve used in the latter is Serzone. Initially, I was put on both together, in part because I had severe symptoms and needed something that worked faster than the typical SSRI. — _Deirdre                                             http://deirdre.net A: No. Q: Should I include quotations after my reply?

Response:

there’s another anti anxiety/antidepressant ssri drug called remeron that worked well for me. I have something called delayed sleep phase syndrome. In laymens terms my biological clock is switched around to a night oriented time. I can’t get to sleep till very late.Recently I’ve come off the remeron because I’ve been able to switch to an afternoon shift at work.      Give your body signals that it is time to sleep using nightly rituals like relaxing music,caffein free herbal teas(some of which have ingredients beneficial to sleep). Try turning down the lights an hour or two before bed, believe it or not your body senses low light levels and that causes the release of chemicals in the brain that induce sleeping. Melentonin is one of those chemicals and can be bought over the counter as a supplement in the U.S.      doing bedtime rituals must be done consistently over a period of time to teach your body when to sleep. Being a student is a disadvantage because they tend to keep irregular hours when trying to balance school, social life, and sometimes work. your life will be more relaxed if you look at simplifying your daily schedule,balance your life, and make time for your self — no matter where you go there you are "Deirdre Saoirse Moen" <deir…@deirdre.net> wrote in message news:deirdre-0902030102120001@10.0.1.5… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In article <pan.2003.02.09.14.23.08.433711.1…@bar.foo>, mongoose > <u…@bar.foo> wrote: > > In recent years I’ve had increasingly worstening inability to sleep, at the > > stage now where I can go a night or several without sleep. I only manage to > > get by as I have a more flexible wake-up time as a student. > > I have a feeling that it may be a side-effect of axiety/depression > > (self-diagnosed), although I doubt there is a causal relationship. It is not > > usually anxious thoughts which keep me awake at night. I think it comes down > > to a fundamental inability to rest my mind. > [snip] > > I have visited a sleep-doctor before, and only got the usual spiel about sleep > > hygiene. I’ve not yet tried any drugs, with my parents reluctant for me to use > > them, and the GP reluctant to prescribe them. I realise that this is obviously > > only a short-term solution. > Not necessarily. These days, there are drugs that affect both depression > and sleep that aren’t addictive barbituates. > What may help is an anti-depressant that has secondary sleep effects > and/or secondary anti-anxiety effects. One I’ve used in the former > category is Elavil (a tricyclic antidepressant, quite inexpensive) and one > I’ve used in the latter is Serzone. > Initially, I was put on both together, in part because I had severe > symptoms and needed something that worked faster than the typical SSRI. > — > _Deirdre                                             http://deirdre.net > A: No. > Q: Should I include quotations after my reply?

Response:

Mongoose From my experience I found the anti-depressants to be non-habit forming. It is important to note that there are lots of them available, so if you have side-effects on the medicine please talk to your Dr so they can try a different one for you. (In fact I think finding the right anti-depressant is about as hard as finding the right CPAP mask!) After my Loramet (sleeping tablets) lost their effectiveness, I can remember being given Tryptanol in a low dose (think it was 5 or 10mg tablets) for insomnia. It made me so constipated that after about 3 weeks the Dr swapped me to Surmontil. I had to break the 25mg tables in half to use them for insomnia but they worked well for me for a number of years. Where are you? Could you find a sleep specialist who is also a psychiatrist? They might be the best person to help you solve this problem? HTH Karen PS  this table that might be helpful in converting international brand names of drugs: http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~rmottare/drugs.htm "Deirdre Saoirse Moen" <deir…@deirdre.net> wrote in message news:deirdre-0902030102120001@10.0.1.5… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In article <pan.2003.02.09.14.23.08.433711.1…@bar.foo>, mongoose > <u…@bar.foo> wrote: > [snip] > What may help is an anti-depressant that has secondary sleep effects > and/or secondary anti-anxiety effects. One I’ve used in the former > category is Elavil (a tricyclic antidepressant, quite inexpensive) and one > I’ve used in the latter is Serzone. > Initially, I was put on both together, in part because I had severe > symptoms and needed something that worked faster than the typical SSRI. > — > _Deirdre                                             http://deirdre.net > A: No. > Q: Should I include quotations after my reply?

Response:

Hey Karen, Thanks all, for the help offered so far. "Kit" <ksm…@nospam.com> writes:

[...] > Where are you? Could you find a sleep specialist who is also a psychiatrist? > They might be the best person to help you solve this problem?

I’m located in Sydney, Australia. The sleep specialist I’ve visited (mentioned in the original post), is a qualified psychologist and member of the Sydney Sleep Research Group. — mongoose

Response:

Mongoose Thanks for that info on the Sydney Sleep Research Group – didn’t know it existed. Beth – maybe another link for our Aussie section? http://www.sleepsydney.org/ A lot of good work seems to come out of  the Royal North Shore Hospital Sleep unit. Maybe we could trade contact names for helpful people – off the newsgroup of course. Cheers Karen to reply replace nospam with kamuzz – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"mongoose" <u…@bar.foo> wrote in message news:87bs1k4n2a.fsf@bar.foo… > Hey Karen, > Thanks all, for the help offered so far. > "Kit" <ksm…@nospam.com> writes: > [...] > > Where are you? Could you find a sleep specialist who is also a psychiatrist? > > They might be the best person to help you solve this problem? > I’m located in Sydney, Australia. The sleep specialist I’ve visited (mentioned > in the original post), is a qualified psychologist and member of the Sydney > Sleep Research Group. > — > mongoose

Response:

Hey, In recent years I’ve had increasingly worstening inability to sleep, at the stage now where I can go a night or several without sleep. I only manage to get by as I have a more flexible wake-up time as a student. I have a feeling that it may be a side-effect of axiety/depression (self-diagnosed), although I doubt there is a causal relationship. It is not usually anxious thoughts which keep me awake at night. I think it comes down to a fundamental inability to rest my mind. Usually when my mind is troubled by anxious thoughts, I toss and turn and get up every 20-30 mins to distract my mind, and return to attempt to sleep when I am again tired. This is sometimes succesful, but these nights were more frequent in the past, and whose occurences are now more infrequent. The common pattern now is that after lying down to sleep, I enter a semi-conscious state, where thoughts rush through my head but I am not completely conscious of my state of awareness. After a seemingly short-period of time I wake/rise to find that many hours have passed, often waking to find it is early morning. I sometimes can get to sleep at this time, and once I get to sleep I can sleep for 6+ hours. I know that people can drift into and out of sleep, and not be conscious of this, but I’m usually aware when I have slept even for short periods of time, although perhaps this is just deep sleep? When I wake/rise in the early morning I feel as if I have not slept, and am mentally/physically fatigued. Less than one hour of good quality sleep leaves me immeasurably more rested. I have visited a sleep-doctor before, and only got the usual spiel about sleep hygiene. I’ve not yet tried any drugs, with my parents reluctant for me to use them, and the GP reluctant to prescribe them. I realise that this is obviously only a short-term solution. I’ve also tried meditative breathing exercises without much success. I guess its the awareness of the intent to relax myself, and the need to be relaxed, which can be a hindrance to the process. I can sometimes fall asleep watching the television, when my intent is not to sleep. If anyone has had similar experiences, or any advice to offer, it would be appreciated. Thanks, mongoose

Response: