Not sure if I have insomnia…
Question:
Holy cow, just read that web site, and that’s totally me! The symptoms match mine perfectly. This one got me in particular: "They usually have tried many times to change their sleeping schedule. Failed tactics to sleep at earlier times may include relaxation techniques, early bedtimes, hypnosis, alcohol, sleeping pills, dull reading, and folk remedies. They often have asked family members to help wake them in the morning, or they have used several alarm clocks. Or family members – especially parents – have tried to get them up on time." I’ve tried it all. Although, if there is such a thing as "mild" DSPS, I think I have it fairly mild. My sleep pattern is about 12am-7am, where the examples they cited were more like 2-10, 4-12, etc. However, I think mine would easily drift to the later times if I didn’t have to work at 8 a.m. five days a week. Mongo, thanks a million for the help. The site says the disorder is very difficult to treat, but I’m willing to give it a shot (looks like light therapy would be a good way to go). Melatonin is an option I’ll consider, but as a last resort. Don’t need to get hooked, even psychologically, on sleeping pills. Sweet dreams, Mark – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Mark Whitehill wrote: > Yep, that DSPS sounds like me. Maybe I can try to shift it backwards gradually, > so it’s not so disruptive. > Thanks for the advice. I’m not a medical professional, either (obviously), but > I’ve taken some psych classes including one on Sleep and Dreams, and what you’ve > said meshes with what I’ve learned. > I’ll check out the web site. > Mark > Mongo wrote: > > Mark – > > There is a sleep disorder known as delayed sleep phase syndrome (DSPS). A > > person with DSPS has a normal sleep architecture if permitted to do so > > within his life context. That is to say, the person will sleep normally > > when he is ready, have a typical pattern of sleep for whatever amount of > > sleep he normally requires (say, 8 hours, but it varies with the > > individual). Then after that 8 hours the person will be as awake as anyone > > else. However there frequently are problems because the person is not ready > > to go to sleep until 2am but then has to get up at 6am to go to work or > > school. The person then suffers from sleep deprivation. > > If the person can find the right situation, DSPS may not be a problem at > > all. To use the above example where a person isn’t ready to sleep until 2am > > but then wakes normally at 10am, the person might do very well at a job with > > hours from noon to 8:30pm. I think that there are many companies today that > > permit flexible work schedules and where the person can choose those hours. > > There are also ways of resetting your clock that sometimes work. One way is > > to gradually shift your hours later and later until you wrap around. That > > is, if 2am is your normal time, you delay sleep until 3am for a period of > > time, then 4am, then 5am, etc., until it wraps around to the desired time. > > Why delay sleep this way instead of backing up? Well, the body has a normal > > 25 hour circadian rhythm. However it is not too hard to get by with the 24 > > hour solar day and everyone has to do it, but shortening it to 23 hours is > > too disruptive. That is why extending your day to 25 hours to wrap around > > is preferable. Unfortunately it is very difficult for a working person to > > do this wrap around process. > > I understand that some people can be helped with light treatments. The > > person sits under bright artificial lights according to a special schedule > > as a means to reset the body clock. > > Please understand that I am not a medical professional and that this is just > > my fuzzy layman’s understanding about this. I have looked at the subject > > some because I suspect that I may suffer from DSPS as well as my already > > diagnosed sleep apnea and narcolepsy. > > Here is the URL for a web page that deals with DSPS: > > http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/1123/dsps.html > > This is a good site with several pages, lots of links, and a bibliography. > > Kent Taylor (Mongo) > > Mark Whitehill wrote in message <36F9E124.16044…@digitalf.com>… > > |Hi all, > > | I’m new to this group and haven’t read much yet. I know I should (and I > > will), > > |but I wanted to get this question out there as soon as I could. > > | I have a weird problem, not sure if it’s technically insomnia, or what, > > but I > > |have an extremely difficult time getting to bed. Not to sleep; once I’m IN > > bed, > > |I can nearly always go to sleep pretty much when I feel like it. In fact, > > I’ve > > |gotten good at just taking myself under pretty much at will. > > | My problem is that I can’t GET to bed very early. I’ve been trying for > > months > > |now to shift my sleep schedule back by a couple of hours, sleeping 10-5 > > instead > > |of 12-7. But I always have "one more thing" I want to get done before > > going to > > |bed (like right now, reading this newsgroup at 12:00 am), even though I > > know > > |full well I could just as easily do it when I get up if I would get up > > early > > |enough. > > | Is this insomnia? Any ideas how to change my habits? My force of will is > > |apparently not strong enough for this. > > | > > |Thanks for any help, > > |Mark
Response:
Yep, that DSPS sounds like me. Maybe I can try to shift it backwards gradually, so it’s not so disruptive. Thanks for the advice. I’m not a medical professional, either (obviously), but I’ve taken some psych classes including one on Sleep and Dreams, and what you’ve said meshes with what I’ve learned. I’ll check out the web site. Mark – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Mongo wrote: > Mark – > There is a sleep disorder known as delayed sleep phase syndrome (DSPS). A > person with DSPS has a normal sleep architecture if permitted to do so > within his life context. That is to say, the person will sleep normally > when he is ready, have a typical pattern of sleep for whatever amount of > sleep he normally requires (say, 8 hours, but it varies with the > individual). Then after that 8 hours the person will be as awake as anyone > else. However there frequently are problems because the person is not ready > to go to sleep until 2am but then has to get up at 6am to go to work or > school. The person then suffers from sleep deprivation. > If the person can find the right situation, DSPS may not be a problem at > all. To use the above example where a person isn’t ready to sleep until 2am > but then wakes normally at 10am, the person might do very well at a job with > hours from noon to 8:30pm. I think that there are many companies today that > permit flexible work schedules and where the person can choose those hours. > There are also ways of resetting your clock that sometimes work. One way is > to gradually shift your hours later and later until you wrap around. That > is, if 2am is your normal time, you delay sleep until 3am for a period of > time, then 4am, then 5am, etc., until it wraps around to the desired time. > Why delay sleep this way instead of backing up? Well, the body has a normal > 25 hour circadian rhythm. However it is not too hard to get by with the 24 > hour solar day and everyone has to do it, but shortening it to 23 hours is > too disruptive. That is why extending your day to 25 hours to wrap around > is preferable. Unfortunately it is very difficult for a working person to > do this wrap around process. > I understand that some people can be helped with light treatments. The > person sits under bright artificial lights according to a special schedule > as a means to reset the body clock. > Please understand that I am not a medical professional and that this is just > my fuzzy layman’s understanding about this. I have looked at the subject > some because I suspect that I may suffer from DSPS as well as my already > diagnosed sleep apnea and narcolepsy. > Here is the URL for a web page that deals with DSPS: > http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/1123/dsps.html > This is a good site with several pages, lots of links, and a bibliography. > Kent Taylor (Mongo) > Mark Whitehill wrote in message <36F9E124.16044…@digitalf.com>… > |Hi all, > | I’m new to this group and haven’t read much yet. I know I should (and I > will), > |but I wanted to get this question out there as soon as I could. > | I have a weird problem, not sure if it’s technically insomnia, or what, > but I > |have an extremely difficult time getting to bed. Not to sleep; once I’m IN > bed, > |I can nearly always go to sleep pretty much when I feel like it. In fact, > I’ve > |gotten good at just taking myself under pretty much at will. > | My problem is that I can’t GET to bed very early. I’ve been trying for > months > |now to shift my sleep schedule back by a couple of hours, sleeping 10-5 > instead > |of 12-7. But I always have "one more thing" I want to get done before > going to > |bed (like right now, reading this newsgroup at 12:00 am), even though I > know > |full well I could just as easily do it when I get up if I would get up > early > |enough. > | Is this insomnia? Any ideas how to change my habits? My force of will is > |apparently not strong enough for this. > | > |Thanks for any help, > |Mark
Response:
Mark – There is a sleep disorder known as delayed sleep phase syndrome (DSPS). A person with DSPS has a normal sleep architecture if permitted to do so within his life context. That is to say, the person will sleep normally when he is ready, have a typical pattern of sleep for whatever amount of sleep he normally requires (say, 8 hours, but it varies with the individual). Then after that 8 hours the person will be as awake as anyone else. However there frequently are problems because the person is not ready to go to sleep until 2am but then has to get up at 6am to go to work or school. The person then suffers from sleep deprivation. If the person can find the right situation, DSPS may not be a problem at all. To use the above example where a person isn’t ready to sleep until 2am but then wakes normally at 10am, the person might do very well at a job with hours from noon to 8:30pm. I think that there are many companies today that permit flexible work schedules and where the person can choose those hours. There are also ways of resetting your clock that sometimes work. One way is to gradually shift your hours later and later until you wrap around. That is, if 2am is your normal time, you delay sleep until 3am for a period of time, then 4am, then 5am, etc., until it wraps around to the desired time. Why delay sleep this way instead of backing up? Well, the body has a normal 25 hour circadian rhythm. However it is not too hard to get by with the 24 hour solar day and everyone has to do it, but shortening it to 23 hours is too disruptive. That is why extending your day to 25 hours to wrap around is preferable. Unfortunately it is very difficult for a working person to do this wrap around process. I understand that some people can be helped with light treatments. The person sits under bright artificial lights according to a special schedule as a means to reset the body clock. Please understand that I am not a medical professional and that this is just my fuzzy layman’s understanding about this. I have looked at the subject some because I suspect that I may suffer from DSPS as well as my already diagnosed sleep apnea and narcolepsy. Here is the URL for a web page that deals with DSPS: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/1123/dsps.html This is a good site with several pages, lots of links, and a bibliography. Kent Taylor (Mongo) Mark Whitehill wrote in message <36F9E124.16044…@digitalf.com>…
|Hi all, | I’m new to this group and haven’t read much yet. I know I should (and I will), |but I wanted to get this question out there as soon as I could. | I have a weird problem, not sure if it’s technically insomnia, or what, but I |have an extremely difficult time getting to bed. Not to sleep; once I’m IN bed, |I can nearly always go to sleep pretty much when I feel like it. In fact, I’ve |gotten good at just taking myself under pretty much at will. | My problem is that I can’t GET to bed very early. I’ve been trying for months |now to shift my sleep schedule back by a couple of hours, sleeping 10-5 instead |of 12-7. But I always have "one more thing" I want to get done before going to |bed (like right now, reading this newsgroup at 12:00 am), even though I know |full well I could just as easily do it when I get up if I would get up early |enough. | Is this insomnia? Any ideas how to change my habits? My force of will is |apparently not strong enough for this. | |Thanks for any help, |Mark
Response:
I would think that moving your bedtime back a little at atime, instead of trying to do it all at once, would work. >Subject: Not sure if I have insomnia… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->From: Mark Whitehill <zo…@digitalf.com> >Date: 3/24/99 11:09 PM Pacific Standard Time >Message-id: <36F9E124.16044…@digitalf.com> >Hi all, > I’m new to this group and haven’t read much yet. I know I should (and I >will), >but I wanted to get this question out there as soon as I could. > I have a weird problem, not sure if it’s technically insomnia, or what, but>I >have an extremely difficult time getting to bed. Not to sleep; once I’m INbed, >I can nearly always go to sleep pretty much when I feel like it. In fact, >I’ve >gotten good at just taking myself under pretty much at will.
My problem is that I can’t GET to bed very early. I’ve been trying for >months >now to shift my sleep schedule back by a couple of hours, sleeping 10-5 >instead >of 12-7. But I always have "one more thing" I want to get done before going >to >bed (like right now, reading this newsgroup at 12:00 am), even though I know >full well I could just as easily do it when I get up if I would get up early >enough.
Is this insomnia? Any ideas how to change my habits? My force of will is – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->apparently not strong enough for this. >Thanks for any help, >Mark
Response:
Hi all, I’m new to this group and haven’t read much yet. I know I should (and I will), but I wanted to get this question out there as soon as I could. I have a weird problem, not sure if it’s technically insomnia, or what, but I have an extremely difficult time getting to bed. Not to sleep; once I’m IN bed, I can nearly always go to sleep pretty much when I feel like it. In fact, I’ve gotten good at just taking myself under pretty much at will. My problem is that I can’t GET to bed very early. I’ve been trying for months now to shift my sleep schedule back by a couple of hours, sleeping 10-5 instead of 12-7. But I always have "one more thing" I want to get done before going to bed (like right now, reading this newsgroup at 12:00 am), even though I know full well I could just as easily do it when I get up if I would get up early enough. Is this insomnia? Any ideas how to change my habits? My force of will is apparently not strong enough for this. Thanks for any help, Mark
