Can Margrove explain this?
Question:
My psych says I’m not bipolar, but there are several bipolars on my father’s side of the family. So I might have some genetic tendencies in this direction.
it may be worth a trial of lithium carb 300mg a day for a week or two blood serum levels below .8 ng/ml you mentioned having to use despiramine to jump start a depression as well you may have some borderline bipolar slow cycles happening that may bear looking into-if this is indeed an atypical depression you may do better on mood stabilizers at very low doses or trying an maoi instead of the zoloft or using desipramine at subclinical doses to acheive around 50-100 ng/ml and seeing if this cycling stops-or you could pinch Charla. I understand this has fewer side effects LM
Response:
My psych says I’m not bipolar, but there are several bipolars on my father’s side of the family. So I might have some genetic tendencies in this direction. it may be worth a trial of lithium carb 300mg a day for a week or two blood serum levels below .8 ng/ml
I got up to 300 mg/day of lithium carb about 4 years ago to augment Zoloft 200 mg/day for a bout of depression. The lithium really zonked me out, disoriented me, and I couldn’t remember words I wanted to use when speaking. So I stopped lithium. That’s when my psych added the desipramine, eventually ending up on a dose of 50 mg/day, which caused complete resolution of the depression in about 2 weeks. you mentioned having to use despiramine to jump start a depression as well you may have some borderline bipolar slow cycles happening that may bear looking into-
My psychiatrist said I wasn’t bipolar. In fact I don’t meet the criteria for either mania or hypomania in the DSM-IV. I do tend to get mildly elated after coming out of a depression. Very similar to getting mildly elated after buying a new car (Mercedes are the best). if this is indeed an atypical depression you may do better on mood stabilizers at very low doses or trying an maoi instead of the zoloft or using desipramine at subclinical doses to acheive around 50-100 ng/ml and seeing if this cycling stops
The "cycling" in not common. Usually mild elation after coming out of a depression. Maybe once every 3 or 4 years. -or you could pinch Charla. Yes. I think that would pick up her spirits! It would make her jump too! I understand this has fewer side effects
Only if you don’t consider getting clobbered with a right hook a side effect. LM
Chip
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – psychiatrist was unable to explain why I had become depressed, what were the symptoms of your perceived depression? did you have any testing done to determine the extent of this feeling or if it was a documentable depresive syndrome or a discontinuation syndrome from decreasing and exiting serum and protein levels of active clonazepam. If the benzo makes you feel better and you stop it then its emotionally deactivatng characteristics cease and you feel things you may find uncomfortable. People on benzos that work, when stopped find they feel badly. It isn’t so much antidepressant effect of the med, but a relief of ones tension, anxiety, agitation, rumination, dissociation, focus, sleep changes which can make one feel depressed, lots of factors. Many times removal of a medication that helps one feel more in control, makes one feel out of control-either because the med works, which in your case is evident it does, or because the discontinuation is uncomfortable and causes a sense of despondency, turmoil, blandness, innervated, etc. It doesn’t surprise me. Because you rebounded so rapidly it could very well be a combination of discontinuation and return of agitation and dread-there is also some evidence that sertraline levels become slightly elevated with the combo so this could also be contributory when alprazolam first came out my collegues jumped at the premarketing disclosure that it acted as an antidepressant for mild symptoms. My take then, and now is that it packs such an active wallop in aborting and reducing anxiety and panic that the relief from this torture is relief of a reactive depressive stimuli. Klonopin shares similar antipanic capabilities although slower in onset or its just one of those things that remains a mystery-like stone henge LM
I think it’s a combination of all the things you mentioned – maybe leaning on the last 
As a teen and after years of taking white pills (have no idea what they were) for "spells", I had my first experience with 10 mg. of Valium. It was at a hospital and, as you might imagine, I wasn’t in great shape. In 20 minutes or so, my mind cleared, I felt calm, focused and wide-awake. Very surprising to the doctors who expected sedation and a ride home in the back seat for me. In reality, I alertly drove home myself, watched some TV, went to bed and had a great nights sleep. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! Check out our new Unlimited Server. No Download or Time Limits! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! ==—–
Response:
psychiatrist was unable to explain why I had become depressed, what were the symptoms of your perceived depression?
felt depressed, lack of interest in anything, hypersomnia, had a PA on the freeway for the first time in years which started some phobic avoidance behavior, fatigue, aching in anterior thighs, no energy, slight agitation, carbohydrate craving, depersonalization which responded in minutes to 0.5 mg of Xanax, diminished concertration did you have any testing done to determine the extent of this feeling
No or if it was a documentable depresive syndrome or a discontinuation syndrome from decreasing and exiting serum and protein levels of active clonazepam.
The Klonopin taper was over a period of about 4 to 5 months…slow…I wanted to know if it was doing anything, so I withdrew from Klonopin. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If the benzo makes you feel better and you stop it then its emotionally deactivatng characteristics cease and you feel things you may find uncomfortable. People on benzos that work, when stopped find they feel badly. It isn’t so much antidepressant effect of the med, but a relief of ones tension, anxiety, agitation, rumination, dissociation, focus, sleep changes which can make one feel depressed, lots of factors. Many times removal of a medication that helps one feel more in control, makes one feel out of control-either because the med works, which in your case is evident it does, or because the discontinuation is uncomfortable and causes a sense of despondency, turmoil, blandness, innervated, etc. It doesn’t surprise me. Because you rebounded so rapidly it could very well be a combination of discontinuation and return of agitation and dread-there is also some evidence that sertraline levels become slightly elevated with the combo so this could also be contributory when alprazolam first came out my collegues jumped at the premarketing disclosure that it acted as an antidepressant for mild symptoms. My take then, and now is that it packs such an active wallop in aborting and reducing anxiety and panic that the relief from this torture is relief of a reactive depressive stimuli. Klonopin shares similar antipanic capabilities although slower in onset or its just one of those things that remains a mystery-like stone henge
My psychiatrist said that physical withdrawal from Klonopin occurs (if it is going to occur) at about 2 weeks after decreasing a dose. I never noted anything specific happening at the two week time frame. I have often wondered if I had some sort of discontinutation syndrome since I had been on the Klonopin for about 12 years, and my depression and anxiety and mild agitation and depersonalization responded so favorably with 1 to 2 days after resuming the original dose of Klonopin from which I had tapered (I believe it was 2 mg/day). LM
Chip
Response:
wondered if I had some sort of discontinutation syndrome since I had been on the Klonopin for about 12 years, and my depression and anxiety and mild agitation and depersonalization responded so favorably with 1 to 2 days the telling sign is the aches and pains especially in the legs (back is another area)
Not pain, but aching in the anterior thighs. I get this when I have atypical depression. I didn’t get the widespread muscle pains and twitches that my psychiatrist said were a sign of Klonopin withdrawal. and the rapid response to the xanax in zapping the depersonalization. (very quietly I add so the anti benzo boobs don’t get woodies) there is some tissue saturation and liver saturation with benzos that cleaves and falls apart sometime after the official weaning process so some little twinges of discomfort hyper or hypo somnia feelings of lethargy and apathy can occur for a period about 3-6 weeks after your last dose.
I get hypersomnia of a component of my atypical depression. I can get it even when I am not decreasing my dose of Klonopin. I’m sure I had a relapse of my atypical depression. I’ve had depression enough times to recognize it when it recurs. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Since you are apparently hypersensitive to discomfort and the medication itself this is a good bet that what you felt was an occurence of discontinuation with some old habits and sensations of the part of your illness that was quieted and supressed. You may need this type of med to sequester these symptoms indefinetly or until your chemical makeup changes if ever, over time and with ageing. remember clonazepam is highly metabolized so it very effective in getting to your brain and everywhere else for that matter-so your body gets acustomed to its presence and has much work to do to reset its own go-no go- transmitter receptors-this takes energy, carbs, sleep, and makes you feel crappy
Also when I restarted the Klonopin, I not only came out of my depression, but had a slight overshoot into mild elation that lasted 2 to 3 weeks until I became stable (not depressed, and not elated). I usually get mildly elated for a few weeks when I come out of a depression. My psych says I’m not bipolar, but there are several bipolars on my father’s side of the family. So I might have some genetic tendencies in this direction. LM
Chip
Response:
psychiatrist was unable to explain why I had become depressed,
what were the symptoms of your perceived depression? did you have any testing done to determine the extent of this feeling or if it was a documentable depresive syndrome or a discontinuation syndrome from decreasing and exiting serum and protein levels of active clonazepam. If the benzo makes you feel better and you stop it then its emotionally deactivatng characteristics cease and you feel things you may find uncomfortable. People on benzos that work, when stopped find they feel badly. It isn’t so much antidepressant effect of the med, but a relief of ones tension, anxiety, agitation, rumination, dissociation, focus, sleep changes which can make one feel depressed, lots of factors. Many times removal of a medication that helps one feel more in control, makes one feel out of control-either because the med works, which in your case is evident it does, or because the discontinuation is uncomfortable and causes a sense of despondency, turmoil, blandness, innervated, etc. It doesn’t surprise me. Because you rebounded so rapidly it could very well be a combination of discontinuation and return of agitation and dread-there is also some evidence that sertraline levels become slightly elevated with the combo so this could also be contributory when alprazolam first came out my collegues jumped at the premarketing disclosure that it acted as an antidepressant for mild symptoms. My take then, and now is that it packs such an active wallop in aborting and reducing anxiety and panic that the relief from this torture is relief of a reactive depressive stimuli. Klonopin shares similar antipanic capabilities although slower in onset or its just one of those things that remains a mystery-like stone henge LM
Response:
wondered if I had some sort of discontinutation syndrome since I had been on the Klonopin for about 12 years, and my depression and anxiety and mild agitation and depersonalization responded so favorably with 1 to 2 days
the telling sign is the aches and pains especially in the legs (back is another area) and the rapid response to the xanax in zapping the depersonalization. (very quietly I add so the anti benzo boobs don’t get woodies) there is some tissue saturation and liver saturation with benzos that cleaves and falls apart sometime after the official weaning process so some little twinges of discomfort hyper or hypo somnia feelings of lethargy and apathy can occur for a period about 3-6 weeks after your last dose. Since you are apparently hypersensitive to discomfort and the medication itself this is a good bet that what you felt was an occurence of discontinuation with some old habits and sensations of the part of your illness that was quieted and supressed. You may need this type of med to sequester these symptoms indefinetly or until your chemical makeup changes if ever, over time and with ageing. remember clonazepam is highly metabolized so it very effective in getting to your brain and everywhere else for that matter-so your body gets acustomed to its presence and has much work to do to reset its own go-no go- transmitter receptors-this takes energy, carbs, sleep, and makes you feel crappy LM
Response:
While remaining on Zoloft 100 mg/day, I tapered off Klonopin 3 mg/day about 3 years ago, at the rate of a 0.5 mg/day decrease every one month till I got down to .5 mg/day, and then I went to .25 mg/day for a month and then off completely. I had been on Klonopin for about 12 years at that time. I became progressively more depressed (and anxious) as the taper proceeded, but had no physical withdrawal symptoms. After I had been off the Klonopin completely for one full month, I restarted taking Klonopin at 2 or 3 mg/day (forget) and the depression completely resolved in 1 or 2 days! My psychiatrist was unable to explain why I had become depressed, or why the Klonopin made the depression resolve so rapidly. Have you ever heard a similar story? Any possible explanations for my above experience? Thanks, Chip
