Lights
Question:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yeah – it was $260 this year with shipping and tax. I never had to pay full price for my medications but if I had – WOW! Zoloft is expensive! And I plan to taper off that sometime in the New Year as well. $260??? What is the wavelength that is recommended?????? It can’t be that hard to come by…. I’m way way way out in the middle of nowhere and while there is an ACE hardware here, that is about =it=. I’d imagine the flourescent tubes I use in my aquarium that make my plants (and algae!) grow so well would be helpful. As for looking into the light directly, I try to avoid that. I was an idiot at 16 and looked at an eclipse. I have a small burn on my retina; it could be worse, look what happened to Stevie Wonder! ;-( That’s why my heatlamp shines over my shoulder. It is a floodlight too, very intense and directional. It makes the entire corner where my desk is almost glow in the dark, it just kinda seems like Tahiti or something…..
Sorry, Bob, but you are still misguided here… The SADelite has a UV filter (which I failed to mention earlier), so it WILL NOT burn your retinas. The brightness is a little startling at first, but it’s the very thing that will reprogram your brain and make it think it’s still springtime. I advise you read "Winter Blues" if you won’t believe *me*. — Speaker-to-Toys http://www.enteract.com/~jfc/ "I brought marshmallows. Occasionally, I’m callous and strange." — Willow Rosenberg, Buffy the Vampire Slayer: "The Zeppo"
Response:
Hmmm. I replied 24hrs ago, doesn’t appear to have went thru… Trying one last time. It is the brightness of the light, not how nice it is to have it shining.
This time around, I don’t don’t feel like pointing out the obvious fallacy in your logic. If you perfer spewing your ignorance, that’s your priviledge. (what a weird world we live in…) 1) there is *NO* such thing as "full spectrum". There’s no definition for it; there is no industry standard for it; it’s a meaningless term.
Oh really? [Full Spectrum Fluorescent lamp with a color temperature of 5,000 Kelvin or higher, with a CRI of 90 or better.] references: http://www.designshare.com/Research/Lighting/LightingEnvr1.htm http://www.topbulb.com/find/full_spectrum.asp?REF=36 http://www.energymanagement.umich.edu/ems/Lighting_Guide.html So, everyone else doesn’t know. Just you? 2) "Full spectrum", as in "full set of wavelengths of the light from the sun" would be hideously dangerous, because it would include UV which would give you cataracts (or worse). The reason "full spectrum" is important is that if the light is ugly and uncomfortable, you won’t be as likely to stay in front of it very long.
Make up your mind. Is there such a thing or not? Above you said there’s no definition and its a meaningless term, then you turn around and trash "full spectrum" lamps. Anyways, since you’re so sure you’re right and refuse to be reasoned with. I will speak no more on it. You’re welcome to believe what ever you like, but doesn’t mean it’s correct. btw. I got my full spectrum (compact) fluorescent bulbs and I think they’re great. Maybe horrible for you, but I LIKE color corrected light, thank you very much.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Someone told me that he built a light box out of (I hope I’m remembering this properly) full-spectrum fluorescent lighting mounted on a wooden frame. He said that the full-spectrum lights, which he got at home hardward, emitted about 2500 lux (pretty low) but he used it for long periods of time. I have no idea if this would actually work or not. I bought my light anyway because I wanted to be sure I was getting the right light. My light is VERY bright white light, by the way, not yellow at all. A few people advised me against buying a light box (actually a lamp) because they said I should be able to build one but I didn’t want to risk it. I also had the full support of my husband in buying it – not that he would ever say "no" but for him to encourage me to buy something for *more* money is pretty unusual! I agree with not wanting to try to build an SAD lamp. The model you got was priced at $230 (shipping included) back in 1995 when I bought it, and it hasn’t given me a moment of trouble since. I suspect that’s a lot cheaper than six years’ worth of medications! — Speaker-to-Toys http://www.enteract.com/~jfc/ "I brought marshmallows. Occasionally, I’m callous and strange." — Willow Rosenberg, Buffy the Vampire Slayer: "The Zeppo"
Yeah – it was $260 this year with shipping and tax. I never had to pay full price for my medications but if I had – WOW! Zoloft is expensive! And I plan to taper off that sometime in the New Year as well. — Liz B. "Eureka!!! I have made an incredible discovery! The 4 or 12 mini chocolate bars that I stuff my face with daily is contributing to my enormous ass!" —Christina (Bolt) Medcalf
Response:
Robert, That heat lamp will do nothing to alleviate SAD symptoms, though it might warm you up. Why risk it? Most 10,000 lux lamp boxes have 30 day, full money back guaranties
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yeah – it was $260 this year with shipping and tax. I never had to pay full price for my medications but if I had – WOW! Zoloft is expensive! And I plan to taper off that sometime in the New Year as well. $260??? What is the wavelength that is recommended?????? It can’t be that hard to come by…. I’m way way way out in the middle of nowhere and while there is an ACE hardware here, that is about =it=. I’d imagine the flourescent tubes I use in my aquarium that make my plants (and algae!) grow so well would be helpful. As for looking into the light directly, I try to avoid that. I was an idiot at 16 and looked at an eclipse. I have a small burn on my retina; it could be worse, look what happened to Stevie Wonder! ;-( That’s why my heatlamp shines over my shoulder. It is a floodlight too, very intense and directional. It makes the entire corner where my desk is almost glow in the dark, it just kinda seems like Tahiti or something….. As for Zoloft, that made me sooooooo constipated that it was not an option for very long, if you catch my drift, and I hope you do, cuz I sure don’t wanna explain. 
Robert, who has just turned his clocks back and waits for the long dark winter to begin…..
Response:
I’d be interested to know how many people out there are in the same boat I am. I’ve been diagnosed for 3 years, but can’t do a thing about it because lightboxes cost money. I take Serzone yearround, but when the weather changes, I suffer. Health insurance doesn’t recognize light therapy. That’s why people like me are always trying to find out how to build our own box, but can’t get past the advice of "it needs a filter and prescribed strength, so just buy one". – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Someone told me that he built a light box out of (I hope I’m remembering this properly) full-spectrum fluorescent lighting mounted on a wooden frame. He said that the full-spectrum lights, which he got at home hardward, emitted about 2500 lux (pretty low) but he used it for long periods of time. 2500 is the minimum shown to be effective. The studies that I saw said you want 10,000 for .25-.5 hours 5,000 for .5-1 hours 2,500 for 1-2 hours and don’t expect benefit for less than this. (however, I’ve heard that there are studies of light sources for closer to the eyes that work with lower amounts of light. I have no idea if this would actually work or not. I bought my light anyway because I wanted to be sure I was getting the right light. My light is VERY bright white light, by the way, not yellow at all. A few people advised me against buying a light box (actually a lamp) because they said I should be able to build one but I didn’t want to risk it. The only real risk is not getting a proper screen/filter to block out UV. (if you don’t get a good flourescent setup, so that you don’t have a good, high frequency ballast, you might go crazy from the flicker of the light. (As I understand it, electricity is on a 60hz cycle, and there’s a miniscule flicker 60 times a second. Most people can’t notice this, but some folks can. The ballast on most light boxes sets the frequency at 10,000 hertz, eliminating the problem. — Everything I needed to know in life I learned in Kindergarten. Like: If it’s from Acme, and the words "rocket powered" or "explosive" are on the package, walk, don’t run, away quickly, and don’t bother the nice birdie on your way out.
Response:
If it’s working for you Robert, by all means use it! Actually, it kind of makes sense. Alot of my discomfort during winter is caused by not being able to get warm! Ahhh heatlamps!! Anyway, to further the conversation on full spectrum ligthing…I tried that too. I got my dh to install flourescant light fixtures in my kitchen, and I put grow lights in. My plants are loving it…but I still ‘lost it’ last winter. So this winter I think I’m going to rent my light again. Tammy
It makes the entire corner where my desk is almost glow in the – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -dark, it just kinda seems like Tahiti or something….. Robert, who has just turned his clocks back and waits for the long dark winter to begin…..
Response:
No, they charge $200 because they can get people to pay $200. It is the brightness of the light, not how nice it is to have it shining.
Well if brightness is everything, use a halogen bulb. I checked a web site that sells a halogen bulb for $15 thats 17000 lumens. I’m sure the 10000 lumen bulbs will be cheaper. 1) there is *NO* such thing as "full spectrum". There’s no definition for it; there is no industry standard for it; it’s a meaningless term.
I can see you’re well read. (sarcastic tone) ["Full spectrum" lamps are defined as fluorescent lamps having a CRI of 90 or better and a color temperature of 5000 K.] For a place other than myself that defines your "meaningless term". http://www.energymanagement.umich.edu/ems/Lighting_Guide.html 2) "Full spectrum", as in "full set of wavelengths of the light from the sun" would be hideously dangerous, because it would include UV which would give you cataracts (or worse). The reason "full spectrum" is important is that if the light is ugly and uncomfortable, you won’t be as likely to stay in front of it very long.
You already said it had no definition and was meaningless. So, how can you describe it to be dangerous, ugly or uncomfortable? 
Actually, some people DO find the light to be disagreable. I’m not one of them. I prefer color corrected light over cheapo incandescents or even many cheapo fluorescents. Since I so deeply insult your (hypersensitive) intelligence, I won’t speak anymore on it. happy?
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – HI, I just found this ng today. What I’ve done is to buy a heatlamp bulb from ACE Hardware and put it in one of those clamp-on fixtures used by mechanics or carpenters. It shines over my shoulder at work all day from now til March. It is 250-watts, has a =very= bright yellowy light like the sun, and makes me nice and warm too! My whole corner is brilliantly lit. It cost me $2.99, and since I’m a cheapskate, that makes me radiantly happy too. I take Elavil from October through March too; that helps a lot. Sorry, Robert, but that solution is wrong in many ways. Heatlamps usually emit UV rays (I think) which are very bad for your eyes, so you should not look into them. Proper light therapy involves looking directly into a 10,000 lux ordinary spectrum lamp for about an hour or so per day. I suspect that you are getting the most benefit from your meds–that lightbulb can’t do the job of the sun. Read "Winter Blues" by Norman Rosenthal to learn more.
Well "heatlamps" I’m aware of are mostly infrared not UV. Great for keeping warm. I’d question it useful for SAD. Dunno where you get looking directly into a lamp either. I’ve heard INDIRECT light. Like reading by the light or some other activity. (frankly wonder about buying books anymore, I keep hearing conflicting information.) Dunno about anyone else. Maybe I just have SAD real bad, but just an hour doesn’t do much for me.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – HI, I just found this ng today. What I’ve done is to buy a heatlamp bulb from ACE Hardware and put it in one of those clamp-on fixtures used by mechanics or carpenters. It shines over my shoulder at work all day from now til March. It is 250-watts, has a =very= bright yellowy light like the sun, and makes me nice and warm too! My whole corner is brilliantly lit. It cost me $2.99, and since I’m a cheapskate, that makes me radiantly happy too. I take Elavil from October through March too; that helps a lot. Sorry, Robert, but that solution is wrong in many ways. Heatlamps usually emit UV rays (I think) which are very bad for your eyes, so you should not look into them. Proper light therapy involves looking directly into a 10,000 lux ordinary spectrum lamp for about an hour or so per day. I suspect that you are getting the most benefit from your meds–that lightbulb can’t do the job of the sun. Read "Winter Blues" by Norman Rosenthal to learn more. — Speaker-to-Toys http://www.enteract.com/~jfc/ "I brought marshmallows. Occasionally, I’m callous and strange." — Willow Rosenberg, Buffy the Vampire Slayer: "The Zeppo"
Someone told me that he built a light box out of (I hope I’m remembering this properly) full-spectrum fluorescent lighting mounted on a wooden frame. He said that the full-spectrum lights, which he got at home hardward, emitted about 2500 lux (pretty low) but he used it for long periods of time. I have no idea if this would actually work or not. I bought my light anyway because I wanted to be sure I was getting the right light. My light is VERY bright white light, by the way, not yellow at all. A few people advised me against buying a light box (actually a lamp) because they said I should be able to build one but I didn’t want to risk it. I also had the full support of my husband in buying it – not that he would ever say "no" but for him to encourage me to buy something for *more* money is pretty unusual! — Liz B. "Eureka!!! I have made an incredible discovery! The 4 or 12 mini chocolate bars that I stuff my face with daily is contributing to my enormous ass!" —Christina (Bolt) Medcalf
Response:
Actually, your light is probably bright blue. Full spectrum lights have UV, so unless they are shielded or BROAD spectrum, they could be doing some damage.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – HI, I just found this ng today. What I’ve done is to buy a heatlamp bulb from ACE Hardware and put it in one of those clamp-on fixtures used by mechanics or carpenters. It shines over my shoulder at work all day from now til March. It is 250-watts, has a =very= bright yellowy light like the sun, and makes me nice and warm too! My whole corner is brilliantly lit. It cost me $2.99, and since I’m a cheapskate, that makes me radiantly happy too. I take Elavil from October through March too; that helps a lot. Sorry, Robert, but that solution is wrong in many ways. Heatlamps usually emit UV rays (I think) which are very bad for your eyes, so you should not look into them. Proper light therapy involves looking directly into a 10,000 lux ordinary spectrum lamp for about an hour or so per day. I suspect that you are getting the most benefit from your meds–that lightbulb can’t do the job of the sun. Read "Winter Blues" by Norman Rosenthal to learn more. — Speaker-to-Toys http://www.enteract.com/~jfc/ "I brought marshmallows. Occasionally, I’m callous and strange." — Willow Rosenberg, Buffy the Vampire Slayer: "The Zeppo" Someone told me that he built a light box out of (I hope I’m remembering this properly) full-spectrum fluorescent lighting mounted on a wooden frame. He said that the full-spectrum lights, which he got at home hardward, emitted about 2500 lux (pretty low) but he used it for long periods of time. I have no idea if this would actually work or not. I bought my light anyway because I wanted to be sure I was getting the right light. My light is VERY bright white light, by the way, not yellow at all. A few people advised me against buying a light box (actually a lamp) because they said I should be able to build one but I didn’t want to risk it. I also had the full support of my husband in buying it – not that he would ever say "no" but for him to encourage me to buy something for *more* money is pretty unusual! — Liz B. "Eureka!!! I have made an incredible discovery! The 4 or 12 mini chocolate bars that I stuff my face with daily is contributing to my enormous ass!" —Christina (Bolt) Medcalf
Response:
Does anyone know of a supplier for SAD lighting systems in the UK? Many thanks Franco
Response:
I’d be interested to know how many people out there are in the same boat I am. I’ve been diagnosed for 3 years, but can’t do a thing about it because lightboxes cost money. I take Serzone yearround, but when the weather changes, I suffer. Health insurance doesn’t recognize light therapy. That’s why people like me are always trying to find out how to build our own box, but can’t get past the advice of "it needs a filter and prescribed strength, so just buy one".
Well, go to a home improvement center and look for their lighting department. You’re looking for a square flourescent fixture that takes two U-shaped bulbs. Find a salesperson and tell them that you need a filter/diffuser that filters out UV (the filter is the screen that goes in front of the light. If you look at a fluourescent light, the bulbs usually aren’t bare, they usually have a plastic screen in front. That’s the filter (or the diffuser – it spreads the light out so that there isn’t as much of a bright spot (well, "band") around the bulbs. Without this, the light isn’t as constant in front of the box. Then you need two U-shaped bulbs each putting out 5,000 lumens each. Light is rated in color, and given in degrees kelvin. No one color works best, but some colors are more comfortable for some people to have in front of them. If you’ve ever felt like "yuck, this lighting is ugly/harsh/whatever", you were responding to color. ("Color" is funny, BTW. I don’t mean "color" like in "colored lights". The bulbs give off (essentially) white light, but some have more of other colors mixed in than others.) If you don’t trust your screen, you can find a pair of safety glasses that screen UV. These will be about $5. I don’t mean "sunglasses", I mean clear, plastic lensed glasses that say that they are for screening out UV. You don’t want sunglasses because that lowers the amount of light coming in. Then, you need to find a way to mount your light so that you can shine it on your face from a distance of about 2 feet. If the fixture is square enough, maybe it’ll stand on its own. — Everything I needed to know in life I learned in Kindergarten. Like: If it’s from Acme, and the words "rocket powered" or "explosive" are on the package, walk, don’t run, away quickly, and don’t bother the nice birdie on your way out.
Response:
Well "heatlamps" I’m aware of are mostly infrared not UV. Great for keeping warm. I’d question it useful for SAD. Dunno where you get looking directly into a lamp either. I’ve heard INDIRECT light. Like reading by the light or some other activity. (frankly wonder about buying books anymore, I keep hearing conflicting information.) Dunno about anyone else. Maybe I just have SAD real bad, but just an hour doesn’t do much for me.
Mine is at work shining over my shoulder =all= day long 5.5 days a week….. It works wonders, trust me. All you naysayers, don’t knock it til ya try it! It’s just like laying out on the beach; it’s bright everywhere, I never look directly at it, and I am warm and cozy…. aaaaaaahhhhhhh……. Robert
Response:
If it’s working for you Robert, by all means use it! Actually, it kind of makes sense. Alot of my discomfort during winter is caused by not being able to get warm! Ahhh heatlamps!! Anyway, to further the conversation on full spectrum ligthing…I tried that too. I got my dh to install flourescant light fixtures in my kitchen, and I put grow lights in. My plants are loving it…but I still ‘lost it’ last winter. So this winter I think I’m going to rent my light again.
I get extraordinarily cranky when I’m cold, so I do everything I can during the winter to keep warm, too. However, you’re right that *light* is the vital ingredient that will keep the pharmacist away! ;) (BTW, full spectrum is not what you need, but you illustrated that quite nicely!) — Speaker-to-Toys http://www.enteract.com/~jfc/ "I brought marshmallows. Occasionally, I’m callous and strange." — Willow Rosenberg, Buffy the Vampire Slayer: "The Zeppo"
Response:
Yeah – it was $260 this year with shipping and tax. I never had to pay full price for my medications but if I had – WOW! Zoloft is expensive! And I plan to taper off that sometime in the New Year as well. $260??? What is the wavelength that is recommended?????? It can’t be that hard to come by…. I’m way way way out in the middle of nowhere and while there is an ACE hardware here, that is about =it=. I’d imagine the flourescent tubes I use in my aquarium that make my plants (and algae!) grow so well would be helpful.
I’m not exactly sure in lighting what is meant by all the terminology but what I do get in general is that it’s the intensity of the light (lux) that is the important factor. This lamp gives off 10 000 lux, compared to 1000 or less lux given off by the usual indoor lighting products. According to the literature I’ve read, 10 000 to 100 000 lux is the intensity of daylight in spring and summer. I decided last year not to risk it – I figured I was better off getting what I needed from the start than doing a trial-and-error thing with hardware store products that I know nothing about. For me, some things are just worth the money. Oh -the $260 is in Canadian funds. That’s about $175 US (guessing based on a rate of exchange of 1.5). Maybe that sounds a bit better? — Liz B. "Eureka!!! I have made an incredible discovery! The 4 or 12 mini chocolate bars that I stuff my face with daily is contributing to my enormous ass!" —Christina (Bolt) Medcalf
Response:
Someone told me that he built a light box out of (I hope I’m remembering this properly) full-spectrum fluorescent lighting mounted on a wooden frame. He said that the full-spectrum lights, which he got at home hardward, emitted about 2500 lux (pretty low) but he used it for long periods of time. I have no idea if this would actually work or not. I bought my light anyway because I wanted to be sure I was getting the right light. My light is VERY bright white light, by the way, not yellow at all. A few people advised me against buying a light box (actually a lamp) because they said I should be able to build one but I didn’t want to risk it. I also had the full support of my husband in buying it – not that he would ever say "no" but for him to encourage me to buy something for *more* money is pretty unusual!
I agree with not wanting to try to build an SAD lamp. The model you got was priced at $230 (shipping included) back in 1995 when I bought it, and it hasn’t given me a moment of trouble since. I suspect that’s a lot cheaper than six years’ worth of medications! — Speaker-to-Toys http://www.enteract.com/~jfc/ "I brought marshmallows. Occasionally, I’m callous and strange." — Willow Rosenberg, Buffy the Vampire Slayer: "The Zeppo"
Response:
HI, I just found this ng today. What I’ve done is to buy a heatlamp bulb from ACE Hardware and put it in one of those clamp-on fixtures used by mechanics or carpenters. It shines over my shoulder at work all day from now til March. It is 250-watts, has a =very= bright yellowy light like the sun, and makes me nice and warm too! My whole corner is brilliantly lit. It cost me $2.99, and since I’m a cheapskate, that makes me radiantly happy too. I take Elavil from October through March too; that helps a lot.
Sorry, Robert, but that solution is wrong in many ways. Heatlamps usually emit UV rays (I think) which are very bad for your eyes, so you should not look into them. Proper light therapy involves looking directly into a 10,000 lux ordinary spectrum lamp for about an hour or so per day. I suspect that you are getting the most benefit from your meds–that lightbulb can’t do the job of the sun. Read "Winter Blues" by Norman Rosenthal to learn more. — Speaker-to-Toys http://www.enteract.com/~jfc/ "I brought marshmallows. Occasionally, I’m callous and strange." — Willow Rosenberg, Buffy the Vampire Slayer: "The Zeppo"
Response:
Maybe, look for a used one to purchase? OR, do a little cost analysis – What is really costing you more? $240.00 for a light box ($80 for each of your 3 years of misery) or 3 years of misery, minimal production (if any at all), hopelessness, yada, yada, yada… I am just starting my 3rd year with the light and each winter has been better than the one before. I wish I would have listened to people who had told me two years before I started that I needed to get one. No, I was stubborn and was convinced I couldn’t afford to spend the money. Well since I made the move, I have more than made that money back. Have a garage sale and raise the money?
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d be interested to know how many people out there are in the same boat I am. I’ve been diagnosed for 3 years, but can’t do a thing about it because lightboxes cost money. I take Serzone yearround, but when the weather changes, I suffer. Health insurance doesn’t recognize light therapy. That’s why people like me are always trying to find out how to build our own box, but can’t get past the advice of "it needs a filter and prescribed strength, so just buy one". Someone told me that he built a light box out of (I hope I’m remembering this properly) full-spectrum fluorescent lighting mounted on a wooden frame. He said that the full-spectrum lights, which he got at home hardward, emitted about 2500 lux (pretty low) but he used it for long periods of time. 2500 is the minimum shown to be effective. The studies that I saw said you want 10,000 for .25-.5 hours 5,000 for .5-1 hours 2,500 for 1-2 hours and don’t expect benefit for less than this. (however, I’ve heard that there are studies of light sources for closer to the eyes that work with lower amounts of light. I have no idea if this would actually work or not. I bought my light anyway because I wanted to be sure I was getting the right light. My light is VERY bright white light, by the way, not yellow at all. A few people advised me against buying a light box (actually a lamp) because they said I should be able to build one but I didn’t want to risk it. The only real risk is not getting a proper screen/filter to block out UV. (if you don’t get a good flourescent setup, so that you don’t have a good, high frequency ballast, you might go crazy from the flicker of the light. (As I understand it, electricity is on a 60hz cycle, and there’s a miniscule flicker 60 times a second. Most people can’t notice this, but some folks can. The ballast on most light boxes sets the frequency at 10,000 hertz, eliminating the problem. — Everything I needed to know in life I learned in Kindergarten. Like: If it’s from Acme, and the words "rocket powered" or "explosive" are on the package, walk, don’t run, away quickly, and don’t bother the nice birdie on your way out.
Response:
HI, I just found this ng today. What I’ve done is to buy a heatlamp bulb from ACE Hardware and put it in one of those clamp-on fixtures used by mechanics or carpenters. It shines over my shoulder at work all day from now til March. It is 250-watts, has a =very= bright yellowy light like the sun, and makes me nice and warm too! My whole corner is brilliantly lit. It cost me $2.99, and since I’m a cheapskate, that makes me radiantly happy too. I take Elavil from October through March too; that helps a lot. Bye, Robert — "Doctor, I know I’m getting better; the voices in my head said so!" Actual quote from a schizophrenic patient
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:I’d be interested to find out what sunrise/sunset simulators :people are happy with. I’m faced with having to wake up before :sunrise and it is very difficult for me. Pi Square (http://www.pi-square.com) manufactures two dawn simulators: SunUp and SunRizr. SunUp dawns and dusks are programmable from 1 minute to three hours. SunRizr has all the same features as SunUp except that SunRizr has a fixed dawn and dusk (45 and 15 minutes). Both models are basically timed dimmers. You plug the light you wish to control into them. I use a track system of 3 50 Watt halogen bulbs (very similar to what the web site recommends). The SunUp costs US $198. I can’t remember the exact cost for SunRizr; I *think* it is around $130. The products are also available from a variety of distributors (although they may cost more), many of which are listed on Pi Square’s web page. Robert
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It’s the intensity of light, in lux, that’s important. The size of the box isn’t really the issue. My lamp has replaceable tubes at $25, apparently after 2000 hours of use (they come with the lamp). So I imagine if the proper tubes can be purchased elsewhere, which they can, it could be possible to mount them on something else to get the right light. Is "k" the same as lux? 5000 – 10 000 is recommended for light therapy. UV filter over that. You shouldn’t sit TOO close and not look right into the light, just have it so the light is going into your eyes (like reading on a sunny day?). — Liz B. "Eureka!!! I have made an incredible discovery! The 4 or 12 mini chocolate bars that I stuff my face with daily is contributing to my enormous ass!" —Christina (Bolt) Medcalf
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It’s the intensity of light, in lux, that’s important.
Yes, "how bright" the light is, is important. Was saying its not everything. If brightness was everything, we could use any cheap bulb. The bulbs I bought (not saying they are a good deal) for this winter are 3300 lumens… 3 of them should be bright enough (besides the right color temp of 5000K) for a total of 9900 lumens. Frankly not sure how to compute the "lux"… [Lumen: The international (SI) unit of luminous flux or quantity of light. Lux: The SI (International unit of illuminance. One lux is equal to one lumen per square meter. ] …Is "k" the same as lux?
Nope. Kelvin as in measure of temperature. Was talking about how color temperature is important. Ummm. let me snip part of a definition of color temperature from somewhere…[Color temperature is directly related to the physical temperature of the filament in incandescent lamps so the Kelvin (absolute) temperature scale is used to describe color temperature. For discharge lamps where no hot filament is involved, the term "correlated color temperature" is used to indicate that the light appears "as if" the discharge lamps is operating at a given color temperature. ... Typical color temperatures are 2800K (incandescent), 3000K (halogen), 4100K (cool white) and 5000K (daylight-simulating fluorescent colors).]… I’d describe it abit diff (incorrectly?) as it helps describe the distribution of light emitted, to less degree what part of the spectrum. I bet if you read up on the specs on your bulbs, you’d find that your light box bulbs have color temp 5000K or very close to it.
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Kinda blew my mind when I read ppl here saying full-spectrum isn’t needed… Why do SAD light boxes go for $200-$500 or higher? Just to screen UVs? nope. It’s mainly because they do so much to make them *full spectrum*.
No, they charge $200 because they can get people to pay $200. It is the brightness of the light, not how nice it is to have it shining. 1) there is *NO* such thing as "full spectrum". There’s no definition for it; there is no industry standard for it; it’s a meaningless term. 2) "Full spectrum", as in "full set of wavelengths of the light from the sun" would be hideously dangerous, because it would include UV which would give you cataracts (or worse). The reason "full spectrum" is important is that if the light is ugly and uncomfortable, you won’t be as likely to stay in front of it very long. — Everything I needed to know in life I learned in Kindergarten. Like: If it’s from Acme, and the words "rocket powered" or "explosive" are on the package, walk, don’t run, away quickly, and don’t bother the nice birdie on your way out.
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Yeah – it was $260 this year with shipping and tax. I never had to pay full price for my medications but if I had – WOW! Zoloft is expensive! And I plan to taper off that sometime in the New Year as well.
$260??? What is the wavelength that is recommended?????? It can’t be that hard to come by…. I’m way way way out in the middle of nowhere and while there is an ACE hardware here, that is about =it=. I’d imagine the flourescent tubes I use in my aquarium that make my plants (and algae!) grow so well would be helpful. As for looking into the light directly, I try to avoid that. I was an idiot at 16 and looked at an eclipse. I have a small burn on my retina; it could be worse, look what happened to Stevie Wonder! ;-( That’s why my heatlamp shines over my shoulder. It is a floodlight too, very intense and directional. It makes the entire corner where my desk is almost glow in the dark, it just kinda seems like Tahiti or something….. As for Zoloft, that made me sooooooo constipated that it was not an option for very long, if you catch my drift, and I hope you do, cuz I sure don’t wanna explain. Robert, who has just turned his clocks back and waits for the long dark winter to begin…..
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I’d be interested to know how many people out there are in the same boat I am. I’ve been diagnosed for 3 years, but can’t do a thing about it because lightboxes cost money. I take Serzone yearround, but when the weather changes, I suffer. Health insurance doesn’t recognize light therapy. That’s why people like me are always trying to find out how to build our own box, but can’t get past the advice of "it needs a filter and prescribed strength, so just buy one".
<snip-snip-snip… chopping the rest of the thread Lucky you, I have a horrible time getting meds. Last doc I saw tried telling me I’m not depressed. Ya well, that’s a long story and abit off topic. Although maybe could ask to see if dosage could be tweeked for the dead of winter… (btw. I’ve been struggling with SAD for over 20yrs… Anymore, I feel it approaching as early as August and June/July are my only "good" months. I’ve done some first hand experimenting with a variety of lights, besides reading tidbits over the years.) Kinda blew my mind when I read ppl here saying full-spectrum isn’t needed… Why do SAD light boxes go for $200-$500 or higher? Just to screen UVs? nope. It’s mainly because they do so much to make them *full spectrum*. Good news is, it’s becoming easier to find better bulbs. The research I’ve done lately, shows ppl with SAD need lights with color temperature around 5000Kelvin. (supposedly mimics sunlight on a clear day around noon. 2700k – is like sunlight, the first hour of the day) Unfortunately, typical fluorescents try mimicing incandescents are only 2700K. I’ve tried using full spectrum fluorescent tubes with limited success. I presume they just weren’t bright enough. This time around, I’m going to try 3 – 55watt compact full spectrum (CRI 84, color temp 5000) with a total of 9900 lumens. Unfortunately, these bulbs cost alot (like $45 each). I could have gone cheaper, but would have had to use twice as many bulbs. …back to your dilemma… I suggest using as many fluorescents as (reasonably) possible at home… Many manufacturers mark their 2700k bulbs with "Warm" and higher color temp (4100k thru 5000k?) with "Cool". Sometimes see "daylight" on those with color temps near 5000k. "Warm fluorescents" are the warm&fuzzy feeling ones… good for relaxing light. "Cool fluorescent" / "Daylight fluorescent" are more energetic lights. Many claim fluors at 5000k cause less eyestrain and better to read by as well. Dunno about you but in winter I have a horrible time getting energetic and the light that helps me stay more active works for me… Although the full spectrum and nearly full spectrum bulbs cost more, it sure beats buying a SAD light panel. (btw, what I’ve read about light boxes, I doubt I’d get much out of those smaller $200 models anyways. I’d probably need one of the largest ones…$500+) Well I hope that helps.
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Before looking seriously into a light box I did some reading and found that there have been studies into calcium and Vitamin D supplementation. Some say that when done properly it can be more effective than bright light therapy. The problem with Vitamin D is that as a fat-soluble vitamin it has the potential for toxicity; however it is difficult to get that level of Vitamin D naturally. The RDI has a value of 400 IU of Vitamin D (that’s per day) which is actually the amount of D listed in my multivitamin. Apparently toxicity can develop around 10 000 IU and some say 4000 IU is actually what people should take in the winter (the body makes its own Vitamin D in sunlight). Milk is fortified with Vitamin D. Here’s a copy/paste of one article (just the abstract, but with the citation) – maybe vitamin D3 supplementation would be helpful in your case. Definitely talk to your pharmacist before taking any, just to be sure about not taking too much. — Lansdowne AT, Provost SC. Psychopharmacology (Berl). 1998 Feb;135(4):319-23. PMID 9539254 Department of Psychology, The University of Newcastle, Callaghan NSW, Australia. Mood changes synchronised to the seasons exist on a continuum between individuals, with anxiety and depression increasing during the winter months. An extreme form of seasonality is manifested as the clinical syndrome of seasonal affective disorder (SAD) with carbohydrate craving, hypersomnia, lethargy, and changes in circadian rhythms also evident. It has been suggested that seasonality and the symptoms of SAD may be due to changing levels of vitamin D3, the hormone of sunlight, leading to changes in brain serotonin. Forty-four healthy subjects were given 400 IU, 800 IU, or no vitamin D3 for 5 days during late winter in a random double-blind study. Results on a self-report measure showed that vitamin D3 significantly enhanced positive affect and there was some evidence of a reduction in negative affect. Results are discussed in terms of their implications for seasonality, SAD, serotonin, food preference, sleep, and circadian rhythms. — Hope that helps somewhat. Some say D3 is better than light therapy, some say it’s not as good. I haven’t read anywhere that it doesn’t help at all, so… check PubMed for articles or talk to your pharmacist about it. Meanwhile, if you do buy a lightbox or know anyone who does, get them to file a claim anyway. I sent mine in, even though I know it’s not covered. Only costs a stamp. If enough people file claims, even if they’re declined sooner or later the insurer will pick up on it and someday it may be covered as medical equipment, like cPAP and things like that. — Liz B. "Eureka!!! I have made an incredible discovery! The 4 or 12 mini chocolate bars that I stuff my face with daily is contributing to my enormous ass!" —Christina (Bolt) Medcalf
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Someone told me that he built a light box out of (I hope I’m remembering this properly) full-spectrum fluorescent lighting mounted on a wooden frame. He said that the full-spectrum lights, which he got at home hardward, emitted about 2500 lux (pretty low) but he used it for long periods of time.
2500 is the minimum shown to be effective. The studies that I saw said you want 10,000 for .25-.5 hours 5,000 for .5-1 hours 2,500 for 1-2 hours and don’t expect benefit for less than this. (however, I’ve heard that there are studies of light sources for closer to the eyes that work with lower amounts of light. I have no idea if this would actually work or not. I bought my light anyway because I wanted to be sure I was getting the right light. My light is VERY bright white light, by the way, not yellow at all. A few people advised me against buying a light box (actually a lamp) because they said I should be able to build one but I didn’t want to risk it.
The only real risk is not getting a proper screen/filter to block out UV. (if you don’t get a good flourescent setup, so that you don’t have a good, high frequency ballast, you might go crazy from the flicker of the light. (As I understand it, electricity is on a 60hz cycle, and there’s a miniscule flicker 60 times a second. Most people can’t notice this, but some folks can. The ballast on most light boxes sets the frequency at 10,000 hertz, eliminating the problem. — Everything I needed to know in life I learned in Kindergarten. Like: If it’s from Acme, and the words "rocket powered" or "explosive" are on the package, walk, don’t run, away quickly, and don’t bother the nice birdie on your way out.
