wake up 41 times per hour
Question:
The reason I asked the question is that both of my parents (deceased) has heart attacks, my mom died with her attack. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Joe Talmadge wrote: > On Tue, 27 Jul 1999 21:24:10 -0700, Patrick Richards > <patricha…@earthlink.net> wrote: > >Interesting. I guess when my ENT office told me that my oxygen was not that low, > >I figure that I was not that bad off, but technically, with 41 that is bordering > >on severe apnea, but then they said hypopias since my oxygen did not drop that > >low. > >My question is this, from your comments on the long-term affects, my blood > >pressure is normal, so in simple terms for me, how would you know what affects > >that have happened to your body that you could test? > Hi Patrick, > Excellent question since it goes to the essence of the point I was > trying to make (as well as the perceptive comments by John Burnell). > Right now everyone just lumps an apnea or hypopnea into the same > category, regardless of the duration of the obstruction or duration of > the arousal. (Is a breathing obstruction that lasts 10 seconds really > equivalent to one that lasts 2 minutes?) It seems that by just adding > one more more diagnostic to the standard sleep study they could > understand a lot more about the potential damage of an apnea, hypopnea > or UARS arousal — and that is infrared plethysmography to measure > transient blood pressure spikes (after all, didn’t we have a few > square inches left on our bodies to add another diagnostic?). > It is now well known that the duration of an arousal correlates with > the magnitude of the blood pressure spike. Sometimes there are BP > spikes even if the EEG leads don’t pick up an arousal, perhaps because > they don’t have enough leads to monitor every location on the brain. > It may be that in your case the BP spikes are relatively mild and did > not lead to long-term hypertension. For many who have apnea or UARS > their daytime BP is high. > If you’re concerned about the effects on your health you might > consider having a cephalometric X-ray or Doppler ultrasonography on > your carotid artery on some point in your life to see if they can > detect any blockage. Similarly you might want to have a stress test > done to see if there are any abnormalities in your heart. As a > preventive, you could consider taking aspirin and/or folic acid on a > daily basis. > Usually I try to give references when I make a point — here they > are: > http://www.heartinfo.org/science/snore090298.htm > The Promise of Sleep (Dement) > Lofaso et al., "Arterial BP Response to Transient Arousals from NREM > Sleep in Nonapneic Snorers with Sleep Fragmentation" Chest 113 (1998) > 985. > Ringler et al, "Hypoxemia alone does not explain BP elevations after > obstructive apneas." J Appl Physiol (1990) 2143. > Standard disclaimer: NOT A DOCTOR AND DON’T DRIVE A SUV, MERCEDES OR > LEXUS (but would like to!) > Regards, > Joe
Response:
97 here. regards, eric pearson er…@nospammindspring.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Sun, 25 Jul 1999 15:58:43 -0400, <@lrun.com> wrote: >I was just diagnosed with Apnea. After a sleep test my doctor says my slep >is disturbed 41 times per hour!!! >Does anyone else have this high of arousals? >The Sleepless Zombie!!
Response:
On Sun, 25 Jul 1999 22:04:42 -0700, Patrick Richards <patricha…@earthlink.net> wrote: >I have exactly the same, but I had a high oxygen desat of 90%. The times per >hour just means we don’t sleep well in the proper stages of sleep, but the >oxygen desat is how much blockage we get during the episodes which is very >important.
It’s certainly true that a low oxygen saturation, say comparable to what one might expect mountain climbing, is damaging to one’s health. I would like to add one point to this that many people overlook. For many apneics, it’s not the oxygen desaturation that’s the health risk but rather the arousals themselves. Not only do the arousals distort the sleep architecture, they also cause huge spikes in blood pressure. The cumulative effect of the transient blood pressure spikes is long-term hypertension and resulting damage to the vascular walls in the heart, brain and kidney. Calcium and cholesterol stick to the damaged sites in the carotid artery, forming plaques and causing strokes. The long-term hypertension brought on by the arousals is similarly responsible for congestive heart failure and kidney damage. I’m not trying to minimize the risk of low oxygen saturation, but often people new to sleep apnea fixate on the lack of oxygen and think that if they can just get that number over 90% or so they will be fine. Not true…. In many ways the whole classification scheme of apnea/hypopnea is misleading as well because of its emphasis on percent air flow obstruction and oxygen desaturation. This is not surprising since the classification was devised in the early 1970’s before anyone really knew anything about the massive spikes in blood pressure and the more recent studies correlating arousal rates with long-term hypertension.
Response:
Joe Well written. The 10 seconds for apneas and hypopneas was a guess. A lot of this early work especially on brain waves for staging sleep was done with young healthy people. Micro arousals and alpha intrusions are important but are not in any classification system. It would be excellent if this whole area of sleep measurement was looked at again by some learned aurhority and discussion papers were available to interested groups. Wish list John Joe Talmadge <talma…@facstaff.wisc.edu> wrote in message
news:379d244c.4040291@news.doit.wisc.edu… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->On Sun, 25 Jul 1999 22:04:42 -0700, Patrick Richards ><patricha…@earthlink.net> wrote: >>I have exactly the same, but I had a high oxygen desat of 90%. The times per >>hour just means we don’t sleep well in the proper stages of sleep, but the >>oxygen desat is how much blockage we get during the episodes which is very >>important. >It’s certainly true that a low oxygen saturation, say comparable to >what one might expect mountain climbing, is damaging to one’s health. >I would like to add one point to this that many people overlook. For >many apneics, it’s not the oxygen desaturation that’s the health risk >but rather the arousals themselves. Not only do the arousals distort >the sleep architecture, they also cause huge spikes in blood pressure. >The cumulative effect of the transient blood pressure spikes is >long-term hypertension and resulting damage to the vascular walls in >the heart, brain and kidney. Calcium and cholesterol stick to the >damaged sites in the carotid artery, forming plaques and causing >strokes. The long-term hypertension brought on by the arousals is >similarly responsible for congestive heart failure and kidney damage. >I’m not trying to minimize the risk of low oxygen saturation, but >often people new to sleep apnea fixate on the lack of oxygen and think >that if they can just get that number over 90% or so they will be >fine. Not true…. In many ways the whole classification scheme of >apnea/hypopnea is misleading as well because of its emphasis on >percent air flow obstruction and oxygen desaturation. This is not >surprising since the classification was devised in the early 1970’s >before anyone really knew anything about the massive spikes in blood >pressure and the more recent studies correlating arousal rates with >long-term hypertension.
Response:
Interesting. I guess when my ENT office told me that my oxygen was not that low, I figure that I was not that bad off, but technically, with 41 that is bordering on severe apnea, but then they said hypopias since my oxygen did not drop that low. My question is this, from your comments on the long-term affects, my blood pressure is normal, so in simple terms for me, how would you know what affects that have happened to your body that you could test? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Joe Talmadge wrote: > On Sun, 25 Jul 1999 22:04:42 -0700, Patrick Richards > <patricha…@earthlink.net> wrote: > >I have exactly the same, but I had a high oxygen desat of 90%. The times per > >hour just means we don’t sleep well in the proper stages of sleep, but the > >oxygen desat is how much blockage we get during the episodes which is very > >important. > It’s certainly true that a low oxygen saturation, say comparable to > what one might expect mountain climbing, is damaging to one’s health. > I would like to add one point to this that many people overlook. For > many apneics, it’s not the oxygen desaturation that’s the health risk > but rather the arousals themselves. Not only do the arousals distort > the sleep architecture, they also cause huge spikes in blood pressure. > The cumulative effect of the transient blood pressure spikes is > long-term hypertension and resulting damage to the vascular walls in > the heart, brain and kidney. Calcium and cholesterol stick to the > damaged sites in the carotid artery, forming plaques and causing > strokes. The long-term hypertension brought on by the arousals is > similarly responsible for congestive heart failure and kidney damage. > I’m not trying to minimize the risk of low oxygen saturation, but > often people new to sleep apnea fixate on the lack of oxygen and think > that if they can just get that number over 90% or so they will be > fine. Not true…. In many ways the whole classification scheme of > apnea/hypopnea is misleading as well because of its emphasis on > percent air flow obstruction and oxygen desaturation. This is not > surprising since the classification was devised in the early 1970’s > before anyone really knew anything about the massive spikes in blood > pressure and the more recent studies correlating arousal rates with > long-term hypertension.
Response:
On Tue, 27 Jul 1999 21:24:10 -0700, Patrick Richards <patricha…@earthlink.net> wrote: >Interesting. I guess when my ENT office told me that my oxygen was not that low, >I figure that I was not that bad off, but technically, with 41 that is bordering >on severe apnea, but then they said hypopias since my oxygen did not drop that >low. >My question is this, from your comments on the long-term affects, my blood >pressure is normal, so in simple terms for me, how would you know what affects >that have happened to your body that you could test?
Hi Patrick, Excellent question since it goes to the essence of the point I was trying to make (as well as the perceptive comments by John Burnell). Right now everyone just lumps an apnea or hypopnea into the same category, regardless of the duration of the obstruction or duration of the arousal. (Is a breathing obstruction that lasts 10 seconds really equivalent to one that lasts 2 minutes?) It seems that by just adding one more more diagnostic to the standard sleep study they could understand a lot more about the potential damage of an apnea, hypopnea or UARS arousal — and that is infrared plethysmography to measure transient blood pressure spikes (after all, didn’t we have a few square inches left on our bodies to add another diagnostic?). It is now well known that the duration of an arousal correlates with the magnitude of the blood pressure spike. Sometimes there are BP spikes even if the EEG leads don’t pick up an arousal, perhaps because they don’t have enough leads to monitor every location on the brain. It may be that in your case the BP spikes are relatively mild and did not lead to long-term hypertension. For many who have apnea or UARS their daytime BP is high. If you’re concerned about the effects on your health you might consider having a cephalometric X-ray or Doppler ultrasonography on your carotid artery on some point in your life to see if they can detect any blockage. Similarly you might want to have a stress test done to see if there are any abnormalities in your heart. As a preventive, you could consider taking aspirin and/or folic acid on a daily basis. Usually I try to give references when I make a point — here they are: http://www.heartinfo.org/science/snore090298.htm The Promise of Sleep (Dement) Lofaso et al., "Arterial BP Response to Transient Arousals from NREM Sleep in Nonapneic Snorers with Sleep Fragmentation" Chest 113 (1998) 985. Ringler et al, "Hypoxemia alone does not explain BP elevations after obstructive apneas." J Appl Physiol (1990) 2143. Standard disclaimer: NOT A DOCTOR AND DON’T DRIVE A SUV, MERCEDES OR LEXUS (but would like to!) Regards, Joe
Response:
In article <k3Km3.469$Yk3.2…@newsr1.twcny.rr.com>, <@lrun.com> wrote: > I was just diagnosed with Apnea. After a sleep test my doctor says my slep > is disturbed 41 times per hour!!!
<raising hand> yup, jim, 41 wake-ups per hour here too. but there are people who have lots more. just take care of yourself. kcd — I think it’s going to be a long time until American society accepts fat people. Dieting has been elevated into a religion, a new religion, and only the thin are "good" and saved. The new messiah is any weight-loss expert. And if you couple religious fervor and righteousness with desire and pressure [to lose weight], you have a recipe for dismissive posturing. – C. K. Grinnell
Response:
Hi; I have a 10 year history with osa/csa. My original sleep study showed an apnea index of 96.4 with a total of 564 events for the night. My oxygen level dipped to 50% with a total of 673 desaturation events. 6 months later post UPPP, another sleep study showed an apnea index of 88.2 with a total of 452 events and a desat total of 522. 1 year post UPPP, another sleep study showed an apnea index of 108 events per hour, 746 total events and a desat total of 311. I won’t bore you with the results of my next 7 sleep studies, but I think you get the message……………UPPP does not work! Tracy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I was just diagnosed with Apnea. After a sleep test my doctor says my slep >is disturbed 41 times per hour!!! >Does anyone else have this high of arousals?
Response:
I was just diagnosed with Apnea. After a sleep test my doctor says my slep is disturbed 41 times per hour!!! Does anyone else have this high of arousals? The Sleepless Zombie!! — Jim
Response:
hi, mine was disrupted 74 times in an hour, and I assume there are more in this ng with a higher index. Just mind boggling, ha? It is so insidious, and if we sleep alone, who is to tell us that we are having problems while sleeping. The people who sleep alone really wait until they pretty much hit rock bottom in this department and then go for help. Who knows how many people who have died in their sleep, had sleep apnea, and it was undetected. So many of us here are so very grateful to have been diagnosed. Deb
Response:
Are you becoming fully awake 41 times an hour, or just going to lower level sleep stage? I hope the doctor advised some sort of treatment! My sleep study showed hundreds of episodes in a few hours time. Went on a CPAP for rest of nite at study and it corrected the problem 100%! Do not delay in getting a machine! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -@lrun.com <@lrun.com> wrote in message … >I was just diagnosed with Apnea. After a sleep test my doctor says my slep >is disturbed 41 times per hour!!! >Does anyone else have this high of arousals? >The Sleepless Zombie!! >– >Jim
Response:
On Sun, 25 Jul 1999 15:58:43 -0400, <@lrun.com> wrote: >I was just diagnosed with Apnea. After a sleep test my doctor >says my slep is disturbed 41 times per hour!!! >Does anyone else have this high of arousals?
Is 41 a high level of arousals? Not for me… I scored out at 87. Fortunately, I improved dramatically on CPAP and took to sleeping with a mask over my nose like I was born with it. (I also wear glasses during the day… which I also took to quite well.)
Response:
I’ve got you beat! Mine was 94 per hour and that was 4 years ago. I’ve been sleeping with my CPAP ever since. I have tried to not sleep with it but I can’t, not even for short nap.
Response:
I have exactly the same, but I had a high oxygen desat of 90%. The times per hour just means we don’t sleep well in the proper stages of sleep, but the oxygen desat is how much blockage we get during the episodes which is very important. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -@lrun.com wrote: > I was just diagnosed with Apnea. After a sleep test my doctor says my slep > is disturbed 41 times per hour!!! > Does anyone else have this high of arousals? > The Sleepless Zombie!! > — > Jim
Response:
I hate to have to say this but my Oxygen Desaturation rate was down to 81%. I am currently using a CPAP machine with pressure setting 18 (Max. 20). * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
