estrogen in fat cells
Question:
Robert Ames wrote: > obese people have more > estrogen–all other things being equal–than thin people.
soooo…this begs the obvious question : would a woman who is obese have enough ’stored up’ estrogen in these fat cells to , as someone put it, glide through menopause ? curlee
Response:
In article <6j6s29$r6…@samba.rahul.net>, Karen Kay <ka…@wordwrite.com> wrote: >curlee <cur…@cutey.com> wrote: >> soooo…this begs the obvious question : would a woman who is obese have >> enough ’stored up’ estrogen in these fat cells to , as someone put it, >> glide through menopause ? >You’re ignoring the fact that many of the signs of meno are caused by >*fluctuation*. It doesn’t make any difference how much you have as >much as how much it fluctuates. Having more doesn’t mean the amount >fluctuates less.
As someone who’s carrying around about 50 "extra" pounds of estrogen storage units, my experience and the reading I’ve done on the subject tends to confirm what Karen says. If anything, some of the symptoms I’ve experienced during the past year (esp. the ghastly 21-day bout of "flooding" that followed a month with no period at all) would seem to have been caused, in part, by an *excess* of estrogen. My theory — and one that my physician seems to think is reasonable — is that as my body does its own particular version of the hormone roller-coaster, I wind up at times with too much estrogen, relative to other hormones, which causes the excessive bleeding. It’s worth noting that, after the Big Flood, my doctor (who had previously suggested supplemental estrogen to relieve other perimeno symptoms) agreed that it would probably not be wise for me to go that route. All of which serves to remind me that we’re not talking about just one hormone here, but a complex soup of chemicals which have been more-or-less in balance during most of our adult lives. As we move toward menopause, that balance … changes. It seems to me that many of the symptoms we experience result from the body’s attempts to reach a new, post-menopausal balance; once that is achieved, one might expect the hormone-induced symptoms to subside. If that is true, then it seems that the decision whether or not to take supplemental hormones ought to be an individual one, based on the severity of symptoms and how much they interfere with one’s individual life, plus any factors which might put one at risk for, say, breast cancer or heart disease. Which is a longish way of explaining why I, personally, react so strongly against the notion that there’s some "magic pill" or one-size-fits-all regimen that will "cure" Everywoman of all peri- and meno- symptoms. What works for this ample woman might well be the exact *wrong* thing for my leaner sisters. –Pat Kight kig…@peak.org
Response:
In article <6j6pg0$…@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>, curlee <cur…@cutey.com> wrote: >Robert Ames wrote: >> obese people have more >> estrogen–all other things being equal–than thin people. >soooo…this begs the obvious question : would a woman who is obese have >enough ’stored up’ estrogen in these fat cells to , as someone put it, >glide through menopause ?
This isn’t how it works. Although the fat in the body acts as a temporary reservoir for estrogen and other steroid molecules, if production of estrogen was stopped, that reservoir would be emptied within a day or two. An example of a study which proves this for testosterone is: Borg W, Shackleton CH, et al. 1995. Long-lived testosterone esters in the rat. Proc Natl Acad Sci USA. 92(5):1545-9. Here they measured testosterone in the fat of rats, then castrated them and found that this testosterone disappeared within 6 hours. So the main role of fat is not to store estrogen, but to produce it via the enzyme P450 aromatase.
Response:
In article <jiQ31.33515$971.8635…@newsgate.direct.ca>, droz…@direct.ca (Kathryn) wrote: >Both Dr. Susan Love and Linda Ojeda in their books mention sources >that say estrone is produced in other cells as well and not just fat >cells. Ojeda mentions "muscle, liver, kidney, brain, and possible >other unknown extraglandular sources" . (p. 23 in my older copy) … >Perhaps Robert can explain again about extraglandular sources of >hormones?
There’s so much traffic in a.s.m. these days I can’t keep up, but I happened to see this. Fat cells, and some other cells in the body, contain an enzyme called aromatase. It converts androgens like testosterone into estrogens. Even without ovaries, the body produces androgens in the adrenal glands, so there will still be a supply of estrogen. However, if you reduce fat you will also reduce the amount of aromatase available, which is why obese people have more estrogen–all other things being equal–than thin people.
Response:
In article <35503B45.5…@pacbell.net>, rcjac…@pacbell.net wrote: >Here’s a fat cell question for you, Robert, or any other scientific / >medical persons on this group… … >But I have read >that the fat cells one accumulates never go away — they just shrink >(thus, cellulite?).
Epithelial cells are normally aligned. When they are depolarized, you get cellulite. Estrogen does this by increasing skin thickness. Fat cells turnover–they die and are replaced. So even if you remove cells with liposuction they can grow back if you have poor eating habits. The main stimulus for the growth of fat cells is insulin. Insulin is secreted by the pancreas as a result of ingestion of carbohydrates and certain amino acids. The "Dr. Atkins" diet, which is based on eating very low amounts of carbs, is based on the idea of keeping insulin as low as possible. My genius friend in France has figured out some method of lowering the number of fat cells in the body by interfering with preadipocytes (cells destined to become fat cells), but unfortunately it’s still under development. >Is the estrogen in my (shrunken) fat cells >responsible for my relatively mild perimenopause, or is it heredity, or >just good luck?
I think you’re just very sensitive to estrogen.
Response:
Kathryn wrote: > Karen Kay <ka…@wordwrite.com> wrote: > >curlee <cur…@cutey.com> wrote: > >> welll…we’ve all heard it, estrogen stored in fat cells, is it possible > >> that the estrogen in my fat cells (and there are plenty of fat cells) > >> will be released when my ovaries stop making it and will ‘glide’ me thru > >> menopause (or is this a myth and too much to hope for?) > >I don’t know that it’s a myth, but I wouldn’t count on it. > >Karen > > ka…@wordwrite.com
(Part of Kathryn’s post snipped; server just woke up) > Perhaps Robert can explain again about extraglandular sources of > hormones? > Kathryn > droz…@direct.ca
Here’s a fat cell question for you, Robert, or any other scientific / medical persons on this group: Over the past 6 months I’ve been posting, it’s obvious my perimeno symptoms are relatively mild. Never have I said, as a former co-worker did "I can’t take this any more". Well, except for the insomnia, which as you can see I am using to read a.s.m. I was "chunky" as a child, and although never truly obese, borderline so as a teenager and young adult. I am normal weight now. But I have read that the fat cells one accumulates never go away — they just shrink (thus, cellulite?). Is the estrogen in my (shrunken) fat cells responsible for my relatively mild perimenopause, or is it heredity, or just good luck? Clean living, it’s not… RuthJ
Response:
welll…we’ve all heard it, estrogen stored in fat cells, is it possible that the estrogen in my fat cells (and there are plenty of fat cells) will be released when my ovaries stop making it and will ‘glide’ me thru menopause (or is this a myth and too much to hope for?) curlee
Response:
curlee wrote: > welll…we’ve all heard it, estrogen stored in fat cells, is it possible > that the estrogen in my fat cells (and there are plenty of fat cells) > will be released when my ovaries stop making it and will ‘glide’ me thru > menopause (or is this a myth and too much to hope for?) > curlee
I have read that there are six different estrogens in the human body. The "fat cells" manufacture one called "estrone". My mother, who is 80, is about 40 to 60 pounds over weight and has never been on HRT or had problems with osteropriosis (I know spelled that word wrong!). She has never complained about "hot flashes" or any other symptoms. I have asked her to consider HRT but she says everything is fine. The one problem is my mother is non-insuline diabetic. That comes with the extra weight. Dani RIchard
Response:
Karen Kay <ka…@wordwrite.com> wrote: >curlee <cur…@cutey.com> wrote: >> welll…we’ve all heard it, estrogen stored in fat cells, is it possible >> that the estrogen in my fat cells (and there are plenty of fat cells) >> will be released when my ovaries stop making it and will ‘glide’ me thru >> menopause (or is this a myth and too much to hope for?) >I don’t know that it’s a myth, but I wouldn’t count on it. >Karen > ka…@wordwrite.com
I think you can count on it that if your body really needs some estrone it will find some. That is if the system is working correctly. Both Dr. Susan Love and Linda Ojeda in their books mention sources that say estrone is produced in other cells as well and not just fat cells. Ojeda mentions "muscle, liver, kidney, brain, and possible other unknown extraglandular sources" . (p. 23 in my older copy) I like to think that all this brain stimulation I am getting on a.s.m. is resulting in just enough estrone, but not tooo much. Perhaps Robert can explain again about extraglandular sources of hormones? Kathryn droz…@direct.ca
