How do I deal with her
Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m kind of new here, but I’ve got some trouble figuring out how to deal with my STBX; maybe y’all can help a bit. Some background: 1. We’re originally from the US, but don’t live in the US, so legal stuff is different. In particular, long-term alimony is not standard (and child support, so I’m told, is generally reasonable). Hello there Anonymous, You state you don’t live in the US so the legalities of divorcing are different. Actually these legalities maybe more different than you think. It may prove a good idea to check it out thoroughly.
You’re telling me. Just comparing what I know of how things work here with what I see happening to people in the US (mainly from this group), I’m *appalled* at how things seem to go in the US! E.g. in the Netherlands, where I live, any agreement between spouses on the technicalities of a future divorce looses its validity if not presented to the court within 3 months after concluding the agreement. I believe your "reconciliation agreement" would be viewed in the same way. Ofcourse this is just an example, but you might be well advised to get some legal council.
Absolutely! I do have legal advice (it may cost me now, but will likely save me a bundle in the future). And what you say is probably the case here too, but of course when we signed the agreement it was presented to the court at the time, and it was stamped and ‘given the force of law’. Which means I’m stuck with it. What I’m now hoping is that we can reach some interim agreements that will provide precedents for softening the terms of the agreement, and also that when push comes to shove I’ll be able to convince her to be reasonable (no blood from a stone, after all).
Response:
Just a thought. You could tell you will stay on one condition. She cease violence towards you. Draft a fair agreement, and tell you will stay (and do it) if she lives up to her half. Otherwise, you can leave without the oppresive agreement she drafted. I am not sure either would hold up but you would need a lawyer to figure this out. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m kind of new here, but I’ve got some trouble figuring out how to deal with my STBX; maybe y’all can help a bit. Some background: 1. We’re originally from the US, but don’t live in the US, so legal stuff is different. In particular, long-term alimony is not standard (and child support, so I’m told, is generally reasonable). 2. We’re separated, under my initiative (I want to get divorced). We have 2 kids, 1.5 and 2.5. She just agreed to unsupervised visitation under threat of a lawsuit. 3. Last year, after some serious marital difficulty, she managed to pressure me (she’s quite gifted) into signing a ‘reconciliation’ agreement which gives her, if we divorce, alimony (up to full support) for (bottom-line) 15-odd years, and lets her stay in our home (presumably with me paying the mortgage) for the same period (both unless she remarries – at least I have that!). Because of this agreement, I haven’t yet told her I want a divorce, since I don’t want this agreement to start operating until I manage to get rid of it. 4. I have a weak-ish case to get the agreement thrown out based on her ‘acting in bad faith’ (she took the kids out of the country without my consent, while I was trying to arrange visitation with her). The issue: She’s decided she does *not* want to get divorced, and is continually pressuring me to "talk" to her about "issues", and she has a "plan" about how we can "make it work". She watches Oprah and gets all moved when they do things with divorced people and children of divorce. She "reminds" me that divorce doesn’t end the relationship (which I’m quite aware of, thank you, but it does *change* the relationship). I’m quite certain, however, that things in the marriage will not change. She has done this before (though not as intensely), apologized for her violence towards me, promised to give me space, not to pressure or criticise me; but every time, she is unable to go more than 3 or 4 days without starting in on me again. She gets upset because I am insufficiently responsive, then we have an argument, then she hits me. It’s goes on from there — the upshot being that until I "satisfy her emotional needs", I’m a prisoner (not to mention the kids). And before you ask, no, the police can’t/won’t do a hell of a lot — they’re basically a big joke (and we have dealt with them a lot). She’s in a group called "Emotions Anonymous", but she hasn’t gotten any real therapy, and doesn’t seem capable of acknowledging that she’s done anything wrong (like when she took the kids away from me for nearly a month). Basically, I’m having difficulty dealing with this pressure. Separating emotionally is hard enough without her pressuring me – this combined with the pressure of figuring out how to get a livable deal out of this is driving me crazy. (And we’re in a good bit of debt right now.) I wish I could just say, "Look, I want a divorce, I don’t see things changing, but we have to come to an agreement I can live with." However, if she doesn’t want a divorce, she could easily make my life a living hell. Should I go into counseling with her in the hopes of "softening her up" if the counselor agrees that there’s little chance for the marriage? But I *really* don’t feel like discussing my inner feelings with *her* right now, you know? Every other day it seems like we’re finally building a workable working relationship, so that once the current finances are squared away, maybe we can talk about divorce, and come to something equitable — and then she calls me and pressures or tries to manipulate me into "coming back to her". For the first time in my life I have insomnia, and here I am pouring out my heart to a bunch of strangers, because I feel so helpless. Any ideas at all???? Anonymous, for now (any ideas for a good handle?)
Response:
4. I have a weak-ish case to get the agreement thrown out based on her ‘acting in bad faith’ (she took the kids out of the country without my consent, while I was trying to arrange visitation with her).
I don’t know about the law in other jurisdictions, but in South Africa there is something called "condonation". What it means is that (if you are subject to South African law) you can only raise issues (such as her taking the kids out of the country) within six months. Assuming you have not taken any action within six months the courts will deduce that you in fact agreed to what she did. I am not a lawyer so do not know whether that is a rebuttable presumption, but obviously you need to find out what the legal situation is where you are. My advice is get legal advice, perhaps just a once-off consultation with a lawyer – stipulate in advance "This is a once-off consultation for advice only" otherwise the SSL will concentrate on getting details on which to proceed and will not be focussed on giving the advice you need to hear. Pay in cash for the consultation to avoid paper trails that could come back to bite you, likewise you may consider using a pseudonym for the meeting, and definitely go to another lawyer when you do decide to take action (for two reasons (1) effectively you will get a second opinion and (2) you do not want your legal representative having it on record that you were considering action x days/weeks/months before you took action – it could compromise court applications down the line sometime). Martin.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – E.g. in the Netherlands, where I live Where in the NL, Paul? I was stationed at Brunssum for 2 years, lived in the town of Hoensbroek. Didn’t travel much up-country, pretty much stayed in the Limburgh (sp?) province, or visited friends in Belgium where I had been before moving to Brunssum. Janie — The reason why rivers and seas receive the homage of a hundred mountain streams is that they keep below them. – Lao Tse
Hello Janie, I guess you must have been stationed with that NATO outfit then, what’s the name again, AFCENT? And it’s Limburg, our most hilly province, boasts the highest point in all of the Netherlands, some 300 metres above sea level 
, and the "world famous" city of Maastricht (since the Euro treaty was concluded there). I live in Leersum, close to Utrecht, just about in the middle of the country. About 1 hour drive to the beach, 1 hour to Amsterdam, or 1 hour to get out of the country best regards, Paul Vermaas
Response:
I live in Leersum, close to Utrecht, just about in the middle of the country.
If I would have only known that last week…. lol I stayed in Maarssen for a few days, I could have waved to you…. lol Nena "Guenstige Winde kann nur der nutzen, der weiss, wohin er will"
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 4. I have a weak-ish case to get the agreement thrown out based on her ‘acting in bad faith’ (she took the kids out of the country without my consent, while I was trying to arrange visitation with her). I don’t know about the law in other jurisdictions, but in South Africa there is something called "condonation". What it means is that (if you are subject to South African law) you can only raise issues (such as her taking the kids out of the country) within six months. Assuming you have not taken any action within six months the courts will deduce that you in fact agreed to what she did. I am not a lawyer so do not know whether that is a rebuttable presumption, but obviously you need to find out what the legal situation is where you are. My advice is get legal advice, perhaps just a once-off consultation with a lawyer – stipulate in advance "This is a once-off consultation for advice only" otherwise the SSL will concentrate on getting details on which to proceed and will not be focussed on giving the advice you need to hear. Pay in cash for the consultation to avoid paper trails that could come back to bite you, likewise you may consider using a pseudonym for the meeting, and definitely go to another lawyer when you do decide to take action (for two reasons (1) effectively you will get a second opinion and (2) you do not want your legal representative having it on record that you were considering action x days/weeks/months before you took action – it could compromise court applications down the line sometime).
Thanks. It’s good advice all, but I already have a lawyer (whom I retained when I moved out and it was clear to me that I *cannot* live with this woman any more) – on his advice I reported the incident to the police immediately and filed an application for the return of the kids under the Hague Convention. That should suffice to prove I didn’t agree with her taking the kids out of the country, I think. I also filed for full custody (in order to get visitation) – I think it’s the lawsuit that convinced her to agree to my seeing the kids unsupervised finally; she (understandably) doesn’t want to go to court. I’ve gotten her to agree to meet for a discussion of items on a predefined agenda – this is progress. My idea was to each submit to the other a set of topics that we wanted to discuss, such that each of us could veto topics we didn’t want to discuss now. Oddly, she preferred that I give her my agenda and we’ll work from that. I imagine she doesn’t want to expose herself too much. Anyway, if all goes as planned, we’ll sit down to discuss our (precarious) financial situation next week, and hopefully make some progress. And hopefully she’ll be able to accept (even if she doesn’t like) the fact that we are separated and will be for some time.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m kind of new here, but I’ve got some trouble figuring out how to deal with my STBX; maybe y’all can help a bit. Some background: 1. We’re originally from the US, but don’t live in the US, so legal stuff is different. In particular, long-term alimony is not standard (and child support, so I’m told, is generally reasonable). 2. We’re separated, under my initiative (I want to get divorced). We have 2 kids, 1.5 and 2.5. She just agreed to unsupervised visitation under threat of a lawsuit. 3. Last year, after some serious marital difficulty, she managed to pressure me (she’s quite gifted) into signing a ‘reconciliation’ agreement which gives her, if we divorce, alimony (up to full support) for (bottom-line) 15-odd years, and lets her stay in our home (presumably with me paying the mortgage) for the same period (both unless she remarries – at least I have that!). Because of this agreement, I haven’t yet told her I want a divorce, since I don’t want this agreement to start operating until I manage to get rid of it. 4. I have a weak-ish case to get the agreement thrown out based on her ‘acting in bad faith’ (she took the kids out of the country without my consent, while I was trying to arrange visitation with her). The issue: She’s decided she does *not* want to get divorced, and is continually pressuring me to "talk" to her about "issues", and she has a "plan" about how we can "make it work". She watches Oprah and gets all moved when they do things with divorced people and children of divorce. She "reminds" me that divorce doesn’t end the relationship (which I’m quite aware of, thank you, but it does *change* the relationship). I’m quite certain, however, that things in the marriage will not change. She has done this before (though not as intensely), apologized for her violence towards me, promised to give me space, not to pressure or criticise me; but every time, she is unable to go more than 3 or 4 days without starting in on me again. She gets upset because I am insufficiently responsive, then we have an argument, then she hits me. It’s goes on from there — the upshot being that until I "satisfy her emotional needs", I’m a prisoner (not to mention the kids). And before you ask, no, the police can’t/won’t do a hell of a lot — they’re basically a big joke (and we have dealt with them a lot). She’s in a group called "Emotions Anonymous", but she hasn’t gotten any real therapy, and doesn’t seem capable of acknowledging that she’s done anything wrong (like when she took the kids away from me for nearly a month). Basically, I’m having difficulty dealing with this pressure. Separating emotionally is hard enough without her pressuring me – this combined with the pressure of figuring out how to get a livable deal out of this is driving me crazy. (And we’re in a good bit of debt right now.) I wish I could just say, "Look, I want a divorce, I don’t see things changing, but we have to come to an agreement I can live with." However, if she doesn’t want a divorce, she could easily make my life a living hell. Should I go into counseling with her in the hopes of "softening her up" if the counselor agrees that there’s little chance for the marriage? But I *really* don’t feel like discussing my inner feelings with *her* right now, you know? Every other day it seems like we’re finally building a workable working relationship, so that once the current finances are squared away, maybe we can talk about divorce, and come to something equitable — and then she calls me and pressures or tries to manipulate me into "coming back to her". For the first time in my life I have insomnia, and here I am pouring out my heart to a bunch of strangers, because I feel so helpless. Any ideas at all???? Anonymous, for now (any ideas for a good handle?)
Hello there Anonymous, You state you don’t live in the US so the legalities of divorcing are different. Actually these legalities maybe more different than you think. It may prove a good idea to check it out thoroughly. E.g. in the Netherlands, where I live, any agreement between spouses on the technicalities of a future divorce looses its validity if not presented to the court within 3 months after concluding the agreement. I believe your "reconciliation agreement" would be viewed in the same way. Ofcourse this is just an example, but you might be well advised to get some legal council. best regards, Paul Vermaas
Response:
Anonymous, there seems to be a lot of information missing in your post. Specifically, what are the issues that you have that made you decide that divorce is inevitable. Your whole post is filled with negatives about your wife, with no explanation of why she is acting this way. We need more concrete information on your situation, especially what you are contributing to the problems of the marriage. sam Don’t push the red button, Never push the red button! Daffy Duck – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m kind of new here, but I’ve got some trouble figuring out how to deal with my STBX; maybe y’all can help a bit. Some background: 1. We’re originally from the US, but don’t live in the US, so legal stuff is different. In particular, long-term alimony is not standard (and child support, so I’m told, is generally reasonable). 2. We’re separated, under my initiative (I want to get divorced). We have 2 kids, 1.5 and 2.5. She just agreed to unsupervised visitation under threat of a lawsuit. 3. Last year, after some serious marital difficulty, she managed to pressure me (she’s quite gifted) into signing a ‘reconciliation’ agreement which gives her, if we divorce, alimony (up to full support) for (bottom-line) 15-odd years, and lets her stay in our home (presumably with me paying the mortgage) for the same period (both unless she remarries – at least I have that!). Because of this agreement, I haven’t yet told her I want a divorce, since I don’t want this agreement to start operating until I manage to get rid of it. 4. I have a weak-ish case to get the agreement thrown out based on her ‘acting in bad faith’ (she took the kids out of the country without my consent, while I was trying to arrange visitation with her). The issue: She’s decided she does *not* want to get divorced, and is continually pressuring me to "talk" to her about "issues", and she has a "plan" about how we can "make it work". She watches Oprah and gets all moved when they do things with divorced people and children of divorce. She "reminds" me that divorce doesn’t end the relationship (which I’m quite aware of, thank you, but it does *change* the relationship). I’m quite certain, however, that things in the marriage will not change. She has done this before (though not as intensely), apologized for her violence towards me, promised to give me space, not to pressure or criticise me; but every time, she is unable to go more than 3 or 4 days without starting in on me again. She gets upset because I am insufficiently responsive, then we have an argument, then she hits me. It’s goes on from there — the upshot being that until I "satisfy her emotional needs", I’m a prisoner (not to mention the kids). And before you ask, no, the police can’t/won’t do a hell of a lot — they’re basically a big joke (and we have dealt with them a lot). She’s in a group called "Emotions Anonymous", but she hasn’t gotten any real therapy, and doesn’t seem capable of acknowledging that she’s done anything wrong (like when she took the kids away from me for nearly a month). Basically, I’m having difficulty dealing with this pressure. Separating emotionally is hard enough without her pressuring me – this combined with the pressure of figuring out how to get a livable deal out of this is driving me crazy. (And we’re in a good bit of debt right now.) I wish I could just say, "Look, I want a divorce, I don’t see things changing, but we have to come to an agreement I can live with." However, if she doesn’t want a divorce, she could easily make my life a living hell. Should I go into counseling with her in the hopes of "softening her up" if the counselor agrees that there’s little chance for the marriage? But I *really* don’t feel like discussing my inner feelings with *her* right now, you know? Every other day it seems like we’re finally building a workable working relationship, so that once the current finances are squared away, maybe we can talk about divorce, and come to something equitable — and then she calls me and pressures or tries to manipulate me into "coming back to her". For the first time in my life I have insomnia, and here I am pouring out my heart to a bunch of strangers, because I feel so helpless. Any ideas at all???? Anonymous, for now (any ideas for a good handle?)
Response:
I’m kind of new here, but I’ve got some trouble figuring out how to deal with my STBX; maybe y’all can help a bit. Some background: 1. We’re originally from the US, but don’t live in the US, so legal stuff is different. In particular, long-term alimony is not standard (and child support, so I’m told, is generally reasonable). 2. We’re separated, under my initiative (I want to get divorced). We have 2 kids, 1.5 and 2.5. She just agreed to unsupervised visitation under threat of a lawsuit. 3. Last year, after some serious marital difficulty, she managed to pressure me (she’s quite gifted) into signing a ‘reconciliation’ agreement which gives her, if we divorce, alimony (up to full support) for (bottom-line) 15-odd years, and lets her stay in our home (presumably with me paying the mortgage) for the same period (both unless she remarries – at least I have that!). Because of this agreement, I haven’t yet told her I want a divorce, since I don’t want this agreement to start operating until I manage to get rid of it. 4. I have a weak-ish case to get the agreement thrown out based on her ‘acting in bad faith’ (she took the kids out of the country without my consent, while I was trying to arrange visitation with her). The issue: She’s decided she does *not* want to get divorced, and is continually pressuring me to "talk" to her about "issues", and she has a "plan" about how we can "make it work". She watches Oprah and gets all moved when they do things with divorced people and children of divorce. She "reminds" me that divorce doesn’t end the relationship (which I’m quite aware of, thank you, but it does *change* the relationship). I’m quite certain, however, that things in the marriage will not change. She has done this before (though not as intensely), apologized for her violence towards me, promised to give me space, not to pressure or criticise me; but every time, she is unable to go more than 3 or 4 days without starting in on me again. She gets upset because I am insufficiently responsive, then we have an argument, then she hits me. It’s goes on from there — the upshot being that until I "satisfy her emotional needs", I’m a prisoner (not to mention the kids). And before you ask, no, the police can’t/won’t do a hell of a lot — they’re basically a big joke (and we have dealt with them a lot). She’s in a group called "Emotions Anonymous", but she hasn’t gotten any real therapy, and doesn’t seem capable of acknowledging that she’s done anything wrong (like when she took the kids away from me for nearly a month). Basically, I’m having difficulty dealing with this pressure. Separating emotionally is hard enough without her pressuring me – this combined with the pressure of figuring out how to get a livable deal out of this is driving me crazy. (And we’re in a good bit of debt right now.) I wish I could just say, "Look, I want a divorce, I don’t see things changing, but we have to come to an agreement I can live with." However, if she doesn’t want a divorce, she could easily make my life a living hell. Should I go into counseling with her in the hopes of "softening her up" if the counselor agrees that there’s little chance for the marriage? But I *really* don’t feel like discussing my inner feelings with *her* right now, you know? Every other day it seems like we’re finally building a workable working relationship, so that once the current finances are squared away, maybe we can talk about divorce, and come to something equitable — and then she calls me and pressures or tries to manipulate me into "coming back to her". For the first time in my life I have insomnia, and here I am pouring out my heart to a bunch of strangers, because I feel so helpless. Any ideas at all???? Anonymous, for now (any ideas for a good handle?)
