HRT for low HDL?
Question:
Thank you for the link to the HERS study. Very interesting. But … it looked to me that it only found a negative effect of HRT for women with preexisting heart disease. All of the abstracts I saw – and I looked at the fuller discussion for most – were consistent with that. Even the study that showed an excess of cardiac events in the first year of HRT is consistent with that, as in the first year of a study you’d have to be looking at pre-existing disease – it doesn’t arise overnight. And for women without cardiac disease, the PEPI trial is a strong statement – a three-year, double-blind, randomized, controlled study that showed that estrogen reduced LDL and fibrinogen activity … I’m going to keep looking but I’m not seeing anything particularly scary – at least, to women without current heart disease. MsKitty
Response:
In article <20001023165723.19348.00000…@ng-cf1.aol.com>, mskitty…@aol.com (MsKitty834) wrote: > Karen Kay wrote: > >Does your dr know that you run? Did he discuss this as a possible > >source of bone loss? > Um … FYI, weight-bearing exercise especially "impact"-type exercise like > running has been shown to *decrease* bone loss, reverse prior bone loss, and, > especially in conjunction with calcium and Vit E supplementation, actually > increase bone density. > MsKitty
Vitamin E increases bone density? That is a new one for me. I’ll have to track that one down on Medline. Do you have a cite for that claim? Thanks. Caution with Vitamin E adverse events: 1. crashing fatigue 2. stomach cramps 3. hair loss 4. bad taste in the mouth 5. clotting problems Joan Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
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Chris Malcolm wrote: mskitty…@aol.com (MsKitty834) writes: >>If you look at the statistics, the chances of dying from heart disease are >>higher than dying from cancer. >We all have to die of something. Thanks to recent advances in medical >science some of us get to choose what we’d prefer to die of. A heart >attack always struck me as a less unpleasant way of dying than cancer >or senile dementia. Are you suggesting cancer is preferable to heart >disease?
No, in fact, having worked in a cancer hospital, my death-of-choice is never cancer – it usually involves very large delta-p. Saying "the chances of dying from …" was using shorthand – the meaning was "for women, the odds of a premature death from heart disease are greater …", and the corollary is that I would take more risk to prevent a higher-probability event than a lower-probability event. MsKitty
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Furpaw wrote: >Have you considered some specific dietary measures to improve >your lipid profile? I’m thinking in particular of >- increasing the omega-3 and monounsaturated fats in your diet, >and decreasing saturated, trans-fats and partially-hydrogenated >fats. >- increased soluble fiber
Those are two very good ideas – but … we’ve been near-vegetarian for nearly 5 years because of my husband’s health issues, so I don’t have a lot of room for improvement there – almost no fat or oil in my diet at all, now that we’ve found Land O’Lakes Fat-Free half-and-half. Would taking supplements of omega-3’s help, do you think? MsKitty
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Chris Malcolm wrote: >mskitty…@aol.com (MsKitty834) writes: <snip> >>Over the course of the next 11 years, my total cholesterol slowly went up >and >>then accelerated in the last 2.5 years – which I expect correlates pretty >>closely to my hormone levels – which is why I’d rather attack the problem >>through *that* rather than add Zocor. >Don’t forget inflammation. Your cholesterol level could be rising >simply because of a reaction to infection, or because your >inflammation control is failing. When you say "hormone levels" in asm >I expect that like most posters to asm you mean the female >hormones. At mid-life your thyroid, adrenal, cortisol, and other >hormone levels can change too, all which could produce menopause-like >symptoms and changes in cholesterol level.
Indeed, "like most posters to asm" I *did* mean female hormones. I do track my thyroid level and it’s fine – I don’t remember the others ever being checked – unless, would an arthritis blood panel check any of those? I had a bout with osteoarthritis maybe 4 years ago – the pain went away and hasn’t been back and *that* doc said my last blood tests were normal – does that cut one way or the other? But I am interested in the implied mechanistic connection between inflammation control and cholesterol – ? I’m going to go check out sci.med,nutrition and sci.med.cardiology. MsKitty
Response:
"MsKitty834" <mskitty…@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20001023144026.04472.00001054@ng-fb1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Addendum to my prior post – > My internist "offices" with my gyno, and refers all female-hormone issues to > him – and he ain’t talking. Ergo – I’m looking for another gyno. > What I am seeing is that as I go into menopause – I’m 49 now and I’ve had 2 > periods in the last 10 months – and have more symptoms, my cholesterol also > increases. If I can use HRT to take care of my cholesterol problems as well as > my hot flashes, insomnia, forgetfulness, occasional episodes of intense > irritability, and what the doc called "osteopenia, not osteoporosis YET" – > well, I’d much rather do it with more HRT than add another drug to my daily > regimen and have to put up with the set of menopause symptoms I listed.
Have you had your thyroid checked? Have you had any blood tests done to rule anything out? All the symptoms you mention, are also symptoms of other things besides menopause. HRT should be prescribed at the lowest doseage possible. Gwen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> FWIW – I do get a lot of exercise – running helps me think about things – and > there’s always serious stuff to think about – I’m an attorney, which makes the > loss of memory and mental acuity particularly problematic. > MsKitty
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In article <108E9FC72C8CD033.057E58838FAF54EA.54EBAB420FD06…@lp.airnews.net>, "gs" <he…@rest.net> wrote: > HRT should be prescribed at the lowest doseage possible. > Gwen
Yeah. Like 0.0 mgs a day. I can agree with that. Joan Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
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If you look at the statistics, the chances of dying from heart disease are higher than dying from cancer. MsKitty
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MsKitty834 wrote: > If you look at the statistics, the chances of dying from heart disease are > higher than dying from cancer.
Remember, though, that statistics apply to populations – not to individuals. You may be more prone to cancer than the majority of the population; I may be more prone to heart disease. Wise consumers assess their own, personal risks and benefits when considering any kind of medical treatment. That means looking at such risk factors as nutrition, exercise, family background, etc., etc., etc. and trying to understand how they play into the bigger picture. At the same time, it’s smart to stay on top of current research and not just accept the party line that says, for instance, "HRT protects your heart." Because the closer scientists look at that question, the less they find to support that particular party line. –Pat Kight kig…@peak.org
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I spent 10 years in the basic science wing at MDAnderson and "reading the literature" was a daily duty which I really enjoyed, before my then-husband’s mid-life-crisis led to the divorce that sent me to law school. I have read the real scientific evidence, the stuff in peer-reviewed journals generally accepted in the scientific community, and I don’t agree with Uffne Ravsnkov about very many of the assertions which he states as fact – I think he’s flat wrong on most of them. So I am going to do whatever’s necessary to get my cholesterol back down. And re the bit about a prudent diet only lowering cholesterol by a few per cent – phooey. I personally raised my cholesterol from the 120s to the 160s when my default lunch venue changed from SouperSalads to McDonalds – and the next time I donated blood and found out my cholesterol had jumped like that, I stopped eating anything fried for 6 months and it went back down again to *my* normal. Over the course of the next 11 years, my total cholesterol slowly went up and then accelerated in the last 2.5 years – which I expect correlates pretty closely to my hormone levels – which is why I’d rather attack the problem through *that* rather than add Zocor. MsKitty
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Karen Kay wrote: >Does your dr know that you run? Did he discuss this as a possible >source of bone loss?
Um … FYI, weight-bearing exercise especially "impact"-type exercise like running has been shown to *decrease* bone loss, reverse prior bone loss, and, especially in conjunction with calcium and Vit E supplementation, actually increase bone density. MsKitty
Response:
Pat Kight wrote: ><snip> >it’s smart to stay on top of current research and not just >accept the party line that says, for instance, "HRT protects your >heart." Because the closer scientists look at that question, the less >they find to support that particular party line.
Can you tell me what have you seen – or point me to a link? This matters to me particularly because my family history has no cancer but does have a heart attack and a stroke in it. MsKitty
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On Mon, 23 Oct 2000 14:02:52 -0700, Pat Kight <kig…@ucs.orst.edu> wrote: >At the >same time, it’s smart to stay on top of current research and not just >accept the party line that says, for instance, "HRT protects your >heart." Because the closer scientists look at that question, the less >they find to support that particular party line.
Details of which may be read at www.oxford.net/~tishy/hers.html. Also see a couple of posts I posted yesterday. Tishy
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In article <20001023134955.04472.00001…@ng-fb1.aol.com>, mskitty…@aol.com (MsKitty834) wrote: > This is my first time here – I’ve been reading messages and checking out links, > and clearly I need to do some more reading – but – can anyone give me a quick > answer or point to a site for this problem – if possible, I need scientific > info to take to my doctor(s) –
HRT is not an authorized drug for lowering cholesterol. It is now contraindicated by labeling when there are cardio-vascular concerns. I hope you keep reading about "cholestrol" and see if you can find the article called "The Cholesterol Myths" that may be linked from one of the volunteer websites for this newsgroup: http://www.oxford.net/~tishy/beyond.html For more scientific information about cholesterol, look for studies done on middle aged women on Medline on the www.nih.gov website. Although it is out of date now, you may want to look at the book "Heart Disease" by Thomas Moore which goes over all the drug politics and lobbying that created the US "cholesterol scare" a number of years ago, and then see how "lowering cholesterol" with drugs has not been of much proven value when it comes to actual heart disease prevention. Cholesterol numbers are still questionable surrogate endpoints and even the TV drug advertisements are forced to admit there is no proof they actually prevent C-V disease. Caveat Emptor. Joan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My internist – who’s a woman and I like & respect her very much – she wants to > put me on Zocor because my total cholesterol is a little high – 207 – my HDL > ("good" cholesterol) is low-ish and my LDL is high-ish – triglycerides are > apparently ok. I am wondering if we couldn’t get the same effect by fiddling > with dosage on HRT. But she doesn’t "do" gyno issues. > I read that estrogen raises HDL – how about progesterone? For a while there I > was on 1 mg estradiol, medroxyprogesterone started at 2.5 and raised eventually > to 10 mg (don’t remember why) and while I was on that the only symptom I had > was not sleeping well and having lost some mental acuity. I went off all HRT > for 5 months when I had a breast-cancer scare, got all kinds of tests at > MDAnderson, finally dxed by surgical biopsy as benign, back on HRT at 1 mg > estradiol and 2.5 medroxyprogesterone, only now I can see my skin’s starting to > relax and wrinkle and I’m starting to have hot flashes. Is this just the > natural progression of menopause, or the result of having been off totally for > 5 months, or because my progestin level is lower now? I’m about to dump my gyno > because he won’t take time to discuss *why* he doesn’t want to change my dosage > in light of changing symptoms. > Help, anybody? > MsKitty, whose first feminist epiphany was noticing that Gunsmoke’s Miss Kitty > was active & intelligent but the guys got to do all the serious stuff.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
Response:
Addendum to my prior post – My internist "offices" with my gyno, and refers all female-hormone issues to him – and he ain’t talking. Ergo – I’m looking for another gyno. What I am seeing is that as I go into menopause – I’m 49 now and I’ve had 2 periods in the last 10 months – and have more symptoms, my cholesterol also increases. If I can use HRT to take care of my cholesterol problems as well as my hot flashes, insomnia, forgetfulness, occasional episodes of intense irritability, and what the doc called "osteopenia, not osteoporosis YET" – well, I’d much rather do it with more HRT than add another drug to my daily regimen and have to put up with the set of menopause symptoms I listed. FWIW – I do get a lot of exercise – running helps me think about things – and there’s always serious stuff to think about – I’m an attorney, which makes the loss of memory and mental acuity particularly problematic. MsKitty
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"The Cholesterol Myths" NB: This is an old article. Important to review the literature for any changes in the basic information. With all such opiniono articles and resources, this needs to be verfied with follow-up research. It raises some important questions, even if it can not provide good answers. Joan The Cholesterol Myths by Uffe Ravnskov, M.D., Ph.D. The idea that too much animal fat and a high cholesterol is dangerous to your heart and vessels is nothing but a myth. Here are some astonishing and scaring facts. Click on the figures if you want the scientific evidence. 1Cholesterol is not a deadly poison, but a substance vital to the cells of all mammals. There are no such things as good or bad cholesterol, but mental stress, physical activity and change of body weight may influence the level of blood cholesterol. A high cholesterol is not dangerous by itself, but may reflect an unhealthy condition, or it may be totally innocent. 2 A high blood cholesterol is said to promote atherosclerosis (the scientific name for arteriosclerosis) and thus also coronary heart disease. But many studies have shown that people whose blood cholesterol is low become just as arteriosclerotic as people whose cholesterol is high. 3 Your body produces three to four times more cholesterol than you eat. The production of cholesterol increases when you eat little cholesterol and decreases when you eat much. This explains why the
