Saw my pdoc yesterday. Questions about Klonopin.
Question:
wrote; I have found Klonopin (Clonazepam, generic brand) to be more effective for me than Xanax. Xanax does not last as long with it’s effects while Clonazepam seems to work for 10 to 12 hours before I notice the need to take another one. I take 2 Clonazepam daily The pdocs in my area seem to be anti-Xanax. smiles, Elise
Thanks for sharing, Elise. I appreciate it. Love, Bob — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
Thanks for sharing Bob. Excuse my ignorance about this, but is knonopin frequently used in place of xanax? If so is there a general preference among doctors for one med over the other?
Hello, nowhereman. Can I call you man? <g Yes, to the 1st question. I`ll have to defer to someone with more expertise to answer the 2nd question. Man, Chip. Chip, Man; (Chip) wrote; They’re pretty much the same in terms of effectiveness for panic attacks. But Klonopin is longer acting and only needs to be taken once or twice daily. Xanax has to be taken 4 or 5 times per day. Chip
Thanks, guy. This confirms what I`ve always known, but I wanted him to hear it from a true expert. Bob — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
Bob, I’m so glad to hear it’s working already. This is great! I don’t understand these docs either. Most are so benzophobic! This is the problem I ran into last night with the new pDoc, which btw I’m not going to see. I’m going to see my old therapist and get a ride there because he’s about a half hour from our house. I hope the K works great for you and you don’t even have to think about increasing it to 4 mgs. {{{{{Bob}}}}} Love, Di
Hi, Di. ; ) Thanks for the words of encouragement. Again, I`m truly sorry your meeting last night didn`t go well, however, I`m very optomistic about returning to your previous therapist. Good Luck, dear. I think Chip made a very good point about one thing; if my doc was "benzophobic", he probably wouldn`t have prescribed any amount of any benzo at all. Cautious is one thing; phobic, that says afraid to me. I believe my doctor is just being cautious, and rightly so. I hope I don`t have to increase it, naturally. But if I do, at least I`ll know it`s safe- based on what I`ve learned, starting right here. Love, Bob
I`m on it again, believe it or not, for the 4th time in the last 5 years. It didn`t help before, it`s not gonna help now… Unless my doctor and I both are mistaken, I went into his office fully prepared to state my case. I shared information with him about many of us here (no names, nothing personal), our collective experiences with CBT, relaxation techniques, the use of the meds, esp. Xanax and Klonopin, and the existance of our resident professional consutants. I even showed him the notes that I took while cramming for two hours before I had to go see him. Based on that as well as my past history, I said that Id like to try the K again, which was one our gurus` suggestions when I talked to him last month, beginning slowly, titrating the dosage upward until eventually ,I was sitting comfortably at 4 mgs. I told him that my extensive research, which includes sharing information with everyone here, incl. our resident experts who agree with the cautious and gradual increasing of the dose. After exchanging thoghts and ideas for a few more minutes, he got out his pad and began writing. I`m going to write you a script for 3 mgs, and I want you to come back and see me in two weeks, and then we`ll see. If, however, you tell me your not feeling any different at that time, well, then we may have to explore other options. I asked him, why can`t we raise the dose from 3 to 4, and try that for awhile, and again, I reminded him that I know quite a few people, here included, who take considerably more than that. And again, I reminded him what the "Doctor" (btw, sorry LM if I goofed, I was being cute again) said about raising the dose- "if it demonstrates efficacy in helping you tolerate anxiety". There-in lies the coonundrum. He replied by saying exactly what the 1st intern said, when she took me off the 3 mgs a day, after only 2 weeks, cold-turkey, btw. He said if I tell him at our next appt in two weeks that it feels like it`s working, even slightly, then we`ll reevaluate and possibly raise the dose. However, if there`s no change, we`ll stop it because two weeks at 3 mgs a day is basically right on target. If it ain`t doin` nuthin` by then, it never will. And he reiterated all the old concerns about posslble overdose. Friends, I don`t know what to believe. But I know I`ve come to the right place to seek advice. Is this approach the correct one? Is 3 mgs a high enough ceiling to detect even a very subtle sensation of change? Even LM agreed with raising the dose if, IF, it demonstrates efficacy". And if the doc is wrong, perhaps even Benzophobic, what next? He`s a good man, and I`m assuming a good doctor, friendly, engaging, gentle, understanding, and btw girls, cute. 
He`s also going to see me every two weeks for CBT. But 1st, I need to know just one thing- Is 3 mgs of Klonopin taken for 2 weeks an adequate trail, or is it safe to go to 4 mgs for an adequate length of time? What ever happened to starting out small, then titrating up the dose safely and gradually until it started to work, then settling at that dose? This is my experience, for the last 5 years! And I`m not too worried about possible side effects, I`m safe at home most of the time. Can anyone relate to this struggle I`m having? Right now, I`m gonna lay down on the couch and rest. It`s working already, the sedation and calming effect, and I`m not anxious at all. Thanks for reading! Bob — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
::Some people don’t. They take the whole bottle of pills at one time. I`m sure some people have overdosed on paxil…….but I`ve never had a doctor tell me they are leery to prescribe it to "me" because of that. Unless someone has a history of overdosing or abusing their meds, I could understand the disclaimer having to be made. Otherwise, it is a strange comment to make to a patient, IMO. ::If the doc was a benzophobe I don’t think Bob would have gotten any benzos. I kindly disagree with you there. I think some benzophobic doctors will prescribe a benzo reluctantly. I think it all depends on the degree of their "phobia" 
We often see posters who are prescribed ativan or klonopin, but their doctor will not give them a script for xanax, as evidenced by Doug`s recent experience. Is Bob`s doctor a benzophobe? I could be very wrong, but I suspect he is. I hope that this doctor will work with Bob to find the best combination of meds possible. ::But can they walk straight? I couldn’t walk in a straight line when I was on ::Klonopin 5 mg/day. My cousin takes a hefty dose of klonopin for seizure disorder. He`s also on tegretol and depakote. He walks just fine He was just here two weeks ago. I asked him if his meds make him tired and he told me no. Jackie ~*~Alone we can do so little, together we can do so much~*~ — Helen Keller — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
Hi, Chip, That’s what most of the pdocs I’ve seen also seem to think. smiles, Elise There is a perception in the medical community that Klonopin is "less addictive" than Xanax. Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
God bless everyone for your concern, your interest and your responses. I`ve been reading and evaluating them, but it`s difficult because I m quite groggy. Please keep the discussion going (unless you`ve just plumb run out of stuff to say <g), and I`m pretty sure my original question still stands; is 3 mgs taken for at least 2 weeks an adequate trial? Are both correct, the old doc and the new doc alike, that if 3mgs aint workin` at all by then, well then it never will, at 4, 5, 10 or 20? Or, in your honest opinion, is it safe to incrrease the dose after two weeks to 4 mgs? If one of my many past "amphetamine-phobic" doctors had put me on only 5 mgs of Ritalin or Adderall, I know I wouldn`t have felt a thing the whole time I was on it. Then, when the doc said, "Time`s up, if it ain`t workin by now, it never will", well, that wouldn`t have been any skin off his nose, would it? Especially if he was truly phobic about the stimulants. Sorry, I`m rambling here… I`m pretty groggy from the K., and perhaps a little disoriented as well. I will answer each individual reply starting tomorrow. Thanks. `night. Bob — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
There is a perception in the medical community that Klonopin is "less addictive" than Xanax.
There may be some truth to that, especially among people who might be tempted to exceed their prescribed dosage for the euphoria effect. Klonopin has a longer half-life, and also seems to have a slower onset of action. The latter is what makes Klonopin less likely to produce euphoria than Xanax or Ativan. The best analogy I can think of is to methadone, which also has a long half-life and slower onset of action compared to the other major opiates. Thus its value as a replacement with heroin addicts. After my bone marrow transplant I was on Ativan, 6mg/day for 7 months. I began to develop memory problems and unwisely did a very rapid taper, down to zero in 6 days. I spent the next 2 weeks in a sorry state indeed, and actually considered going into rehab. Instead I requested a script for Klonopin, 2mg/day, and immediately began a gradual taper. I had to get creative in measuring a reduction of 2% per day, and I did experience some insomnia and other withdrawal symtoms, but they were not severe. This was two years ago, and at that time the conventional wisdom among doctors who recommended tapering was to use Klonopin or Valium, which has an even longer half-life. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is a perception in the medical community that Klonopin is "less addictive" than Xanax. There may be some truth to that, especially among people who might be tempted to exceed their prescribed dosage for the euphoria effect. Klonopin has a longer half-life, and also seems to have a slower onset of action. The latter is what makes Klonopin less likely to produce euphoria than Xanax or Ativan. The best analogy I can think of is to methadone, which also has a long half-life and slower onset of action compared to the other major opiates. Thus its value as a replacement with heroin addicts. After my bone marrow transplant I was on Ativan, 6mg/day for 7 months. I began to develop memory problems and unwisely did a very rapid taper, down to zero in 6 days. I spent the next 2 weeks in a sorry state indeed, and actually considered going into rehab. Instead I requested a script for Klonopin, 2mg/day, and immediately began a gradual taper. I had to get creative in measuring a reduction of 2% per day, and I did experience some insomnia and other withdrawal symtoms, but they were not severe. This was two years ago, and at that time the conventional wisdom among doctors who recommended tapering was to use Klonopin or Valium, which has an even longer half-life.
My impression is that the best benzos to do a taper with is a long acting, low potency benzo, such as Valium. The worst withdrawal symptoms seem to occur with the high potency, short acting benzos, such as Xanax. Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – God bless everyone for your concern, your interest and your responses. I`ve been reading and evaluating them, but it`s difficult because I m quite groggy. Please keep the discussion going (unless you`ve just plumb run out of stuff to say <g), and I`m pretty sure my original question still stands; is 3 mgs taken for at least 2 weeks an adequate trial? Are both correct, the old doc and the new doc alike, that if 3mgs aint workin` at all by then, well then it never will, at 4, 5, 10 or 20? Or, in your honest opinion, is it safe to incrrease the dose after two weeks to 4 mgs? If one of my many past "amphetamine-phobic" doctors had put me on only 5 mgs of Ritalin or Adderall, I know I wouldn`t have felt a thing the whole time I was on it. Then, when the doc said, "Time`s up, if it ain`t workin by now, it never will", well, that wouldn`t have been any skin off his nose, would it? Especially if he was truly phobic about the stimulants. Sorry, I`m rambling here… I`m pretty groggy from the K., and perhaps a little disoriented as well. I will answer each individual reply starting tomorrow. Thanks. `night. Bob
Good luck, Bob. It would be helpful to know all your current psychiatric diagnoses as well as all current psychiatric meds along with their dosage, and also any meds for medical conditions. Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
I have found Klonopin (Clonazepam, generic brand) to be more effective for me than Xanax. Xanax does not last as long with it’s effects while Clonazepam seems to work for 10 to 12 hours before I notice the need to take another one. I take 2 Clonazepam daily The pdocs in my area seem to be anti-Xanax.
There is a perception in the medical community that Klonopin is "less addictive" than Xanax. Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
My Xanax XR has me covered for 24 hours.
I take mine in 2 doses now and it works much better that way for me, but then I’ve had trouble with meds not working for long enough in the past… maybe I’m just a hyperactive metaboliser? Vashti — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
Some people don’t. They take the whole bottle of pills at one time. If the doc was a benzophobe I don’t think Bob would have gotten any benzos.
Well if it *is* overdose the doc is worried about he could just not prescribe enough at a time to enable a decent overdose… I can’t see why he’d be concerned about an overdose attempt in this case though. Vashti — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for sharing Bob. Excuse my ignorance about this, but is knonopin frequently used in place of xanax? If so is there a general preference among doctors for one med over the other? They’re pretty much the same in terms of effectiveness for panic attacks. But Klonopin is longer acting and only needs to be taken once or twice daily. Xanax has to be taken 4 or 5 times per day. Chip
Not Xanax XR which can be taken once or twice a day dependent on the individual’s rate of metabolism. Philip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
Hi Bob, The only thing I know about klonopin from my own experience is that 0.5 mg relaxes me and 1 mg stops me from shaking all over. I started taking it with regularity 3 weeks ago when Mom went into the hospital. Before then, half of the above doses were effective. I hope I reach some kind of constantly-effective dosage level soon. Anyway, I think it’s only logical that gradual increases or decreases of dosages are the intelligent way to go. It’s like finding clothes that fit. If a size 12 is too small, it’s silly to buy a 20 before trying on the 14, 16, and 18. It’s just logical to me. Everybody’s always saying that with meds, ‘one size fits all’ doesn’t usually apply. I agree. My two and a half cents, Deirdre
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I`m on it again, believe it or not, for the 4th time in the last 5 years. It didn`t help before, it`s not gonna help now… Unless my doctor and I both are mistaken, I went into his office fully prepared to state my case. I shared information with him about many of us here (no names, nothing personal), our collective experiences with CBT, relaxation techniques, the use of the meds, esp. Xanax and Klonopin, and the existance of our resident professional consutants. I even showed him the notes that I took while cramming for two hours before I had to go see him. Based on that as well as my past history, I said that Id like to try the K again, which was one our gurus` suggestions when I talked to him last month, beginning slowly, titrating the dosage upward until eventually ,I was sitting comfortably at 4 mgs. I told him that my extensive research, which includes sharing information with everyone here, incl. our resident experts who agree with the cautious and gradual increasing of the dose. After exchanging thoghts and ideas for a few more minutes, he got out his pad and began writing. I`m going to write you a script for 3 mgs, and I want you to come back and see me in two weeks, and then we`ll see. If, however, you tell me your not feeling any different at that time, well, then we may have to explore other options. I asked him, why can`t we raise the dose from 3 to 4, and try that for awhile, and again, I reminded him that I know quite a few people, here included, who take considerably more than that. And again, I reminded him what the "Doctor" (btw, sorry LM if I goofed, I was being cute again) said about raising the dose- "if it demonstrates efficacy in helping you tolerate anxiety". There-in lies the coonundrum. He replied by saying exactly what the 1st intern said, when she took me off the 3 mgs a day, after only 2 weeks, cold-turkey, btw. He said if I tell him at our next appt in two weeks that it feels like it`s working, even slightly, then we`ll reevaluate and possibly raise the dose. However, if there`s no change, we`ll stop it because two weeks at 3 mgs a day is basically right on target. If it ain`t doin` nuthin` by then, it never will. And he reiterated all the old concerns about posslble overdose. Friends, I don`t know what to believe. But I know I`ve come to the right place to seek advice. Is this approach the correct one? Is 3 mgs a high enough ceiling to detect even a very subtle sensation of change? Even LM agreed with raising the dose if, IF, it demonstrates efficacy". And if the doc is wrong, perhaps even Benzophobic, what next? He`s a good man, and I`m assuming a good doctor, friendly, engaging, gentle, understanding, and btw girls, cute. He`s also going to see me every two weeks for CBT. But 1st, I need to know just one thing- Is 3 mgs of Klonopin taken for 2 weeks an adequate trail, or is it safe to go to 4 mgs for an adequate length of time? What ever happened to starting out small, then titrating up the dose safely and gradually until it started to work, then settling at that dose? This is my experience, for the last 5 years! And I`m not too worried about possible side effects, I`m safe at home most of the time. Can anyone relate to this struggle I`m having? Right now, I`m gonna lay down on the couch and rest. It`s working already, the sedation and calming effect, and I`m not anxious at all. Thanks for reading! Bob — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
Thanks for sharing Bob. Excuse my ignorance about this, but is knonopin frequently used in place of xanax? If so is there a general preference among doctors for one med over the other?
They’re pretty much the same in terms of effectiveness for panic attacks. But Klonopin is longer acting and only needs to be taken once or twice daily. Xanax has to be taken 4 or 5 times per day. Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
<big snip Can anyone relate to this struggle I`m having? Right now, I`m gonna lay down on the couch and rest. It`s working already, the sedation and calming effect, and I`m not anxious at all.
Sounds great! All that worrying and 3mgs is making a difference already! So if I understand correctly, in 2 weeks you either tell the Dr. it’s working fine, or he ups it to 4mg? Good luck! I take klonopin 6mg/day and also take up to 2mg of Lorazepam for breakthrough anxiety/panic. Tono — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
I have found Klonopin (Clonazepam, generic brand) to be more effective for me than Xanax. Xanax does not last as long with it’s effects while Clonazepam seems to work for 10 to 12 hours before I notice the need to take another one. I take 2 Clonazepam daily The pdocs in my area seem to be anti-Xanax. smiles, Elise
My Xanax XR has me covered for 24 hours. P. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for sharing Bob. Excuse my ignorance about this, but is knonopin frequently used in place of xanax? If so is there a general preference among doctors for one med over the other? — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
Friends, I don`t know what to believe. But I know I`ve come to the right place to seek advice. Is this approach the correct one? Is 3 mgs a high enough ceiling to detect even a very subtle sensation of change?
IMO if you start out from scratch 3 mg of Klonopin should have *some* effect. If the effect isn’t good enough there is no reason not to raise the dose some more. Accidental *Overdosing* on Klonopin is totally impossible. Originally it was prescribed as an anticonvulsant at doses as high as 20 mg or higher. Us anxiety folk never need a dose like that. 3 mg is *not* a high dose, however. What ever happened to starting out small, then titrating up the dose safely and gradually until it started to work, then settling at that dose?
That’s what you do with antidepressants where you start at a low dose to keep initial side effects minimal and then slowly reach a therapeutic dose. Although Klonopin does also build up (is this English?) benzos also work right from the first pill. OTOH if someone with no previous experience with Klonopin would start it, it would be wise to start at a lower dose because that just might be enough. If not one can then raise the dose. But as your experience with K. is that it wasn’t effective at 3 mg before that might be the right place to start. In my layman’s opinion there would be no problem at all to try 4 mg if 3 don’t do the trick but then *some* improvement should be felt or it might be better to try another route. This is my experience, for the last 5 years! And I`m not too worried about possible side effects, I`m safe at home most of the time.
I’ll drop by around dinnertime You may feel somewhat drowsy but as a rule that’s the only initial side effect. Well, you know all that already. Keep us posted! Philip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
<Gently snipped ::However, if there`s no change, we`ll stop ::it because two weeks at 3 mgs a day is basically right on target. ::If it ain`t doin` nuthin` by then, it never will. And he reiterated all ::the old concerns about posslble overdose. Dear Bob, Hmmm…….I`ve read this over a few times and here is what I think about it. I think your doctor is a benzophobe, especially that he mentions overdose. How does overdose come into play if you take your meds as prescribed? People with seizure disorder can take up to 20 mgs a day of klonopin. Your doctor is worried about overdose on a mere 3 mgs a day? What is the difference between 3 and 4 mgs? Nothing as far as I know. I mean, it`s just a number! It`s not like you asked to try 10 mgs. His stinginess about letting you try the 4 mgs is quite telling. It sure doesn`t sound like this doctor is comfortable with using benzos. You may find this snippet interesting…. ~*~Panic Disorder: Adults: The initial dose for adults with panic disorder is 0.25 mg bid. An increase to the target dose for most patients of 1 mg/day may be made after 3 days. The recommended dose of 1 mg/day is based on the results from a fixed dose study in which the optimal effect was seen at 1 mg/day. Higher doses of 2, 3 and 4 mg/day in that study were less effective than the 1 mg/day dose and were associated with more adverse effects. Nevertheless, it is possible that some individual patients may benefit from doses of up to a maximum dose of 4 mg/day, and in those instances, the dose may be increased in increments of 0.125 to 0.25 mg bid every 3 days until panic disorder is controlled or until side effects make further increases undesired. To reduce the inconvenience of somnolence, administration of one dose at bedtime may be desirable.~*~ http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/clonaz_ids.htm I hope the 3mgs works! I`ll keep my fingers, toes and whatever else I can cross, crossed for you Jackie ~*~Alone we can do so little, together we can do so much~*~ — Helen Keller — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <Gently snipped ::However, if there`s no change, we`ll stop ::it because two weeks at 3 mgs a day is basically right on target. ::If it ain`t doin` nuthin` by then, it never will. And he reiterated all ::the old concerns about posslble overdose. Dear Bob, Hmmm…….I`ve read this over a few times and here is what I think about it. I think your doctor is a benzophobe, especially that he mentions overdose. How does overdose come into play if you take your meds as prescribed?
Some people don’t. They take the whole bottle of pills at one time. If the doc was a benzophobe I don’t think Bob would have gotten any benzos. People with seizure disorder can take up to 20 mgs a day of klonopin.
But can they walk straight? I couldn’t walk in a straight line when I was on Klonopin 5 mg/day. I wonder if people on 20 mg/day can keep their eyes open. Your doctor is worried about overdose on a mere 3 mgs a day? What is the difference between 3 and 4 mgs? Nothing as far as I know. I mean, it`s just a number! It`s not like you asked to try 10 mgs. His stinginess about letting you try the 4 mgs is quite telling. It sure doesn`t sound like this doctor is comfortable with using benzos.
I think it’s reasonable to start at 3, and if Bob feels a response, to increase the dose to 4 mg/day. I’ve been on 3 mg/day for about 7 years. Before that I was on 5 mg/day, but wanted to see if I could get by on less. Going from 5 to 3 mg/day did not result in more anxiety, but my coordination improved. Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
I have found Klonopin (Clonazepam, generic brand) to be more effective for me than Xanax. Xanax does not last as long with it’s effects while Clonazepam seems to work for 10 to 12 hours before I notice the need to take another one. I take 2 Clonazepam daily The pdocs in my area seem to be anti-Xanax. smiles, Elise
Thanks for sharing Bob. Excuse my ignorance about this, but is knonopin frequently used in place of xanax? If so is there a general preference among doctors for one med over the other? — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
I`m on it again, believe it or not, for the 4th time in the last 5 years. It didn`t help before, it`s not gonna help now…
Come on Bob: give it a chance, ok? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Unless my doctor and I both are mistaken, I went into his office fully prepared to state my case. I shared information with him about many of us here (no names, nothing personal), our collective experiences with CBT, relaxation techniques, the use of the meds, esp. Xanax and Klonopin, and the existance of our resident professional consutants. I even showed him the notes that I took while cramming for two hours before I had to go see him. Based on that as well as my past history, I said that Id like to try the K again, which was one our gurus` suggestions when I talked to him last month, beginning slowly, titrating the dosage upward until eventually ,I was sitting comfortably at 4 mgs. I told him that my extensive research, which includes sharing information with everyone here, incl. our resident experts who agree with the cautious and gradual increasing of the dose. After exchanging thoghts and ideas for a few more minutes, he got out his pad and began writing. I`m going to write you a script for 3 mgs, and I want you to come back and see me in two weeks, and then we`ll see. If, however, you tell me your not feeling any different at that time, well, then we may have to explore other options. I asked him, why can`t we raise the dose from 3 to 4, and try that for awhile, and again, I reminded him that I know quite a few people, here included, who take considerably more than that. And again, I reminded him what the "Doctor"(btw, sorry LM if I goofed, I was being cute again) said about raising the dose- "if it demonstrates efficacy in helping you tolerate anxiety".
Sounds like his mind is made up, doesn’t it? There-in lies the coonundrum. He replied by saying exactly what the 1st intern said, when she took me off the 3 mgs a day, after only 2 weeks, cold-turkey, btw. He said if I tell him at our next appt in two weeks that it feels like it`s working, even slightly, then we`ll reevaluate and possibly raise the dose. However, if there`s no change, we`ll stop it because two weeks at 3 mgs a day is basically right on target. If it ain`t doin` nuthin` by then, it never will. And he reiterated all the old concerns about posslble overdose.
Did you ask if he could differentiate between tolerance and dependence? Are you sure he said overdose and not addiction? Friends, I don`t know what to believe. But I know I`ve come to the right place to seek advice. Is this approach the correct one? Is 3 mgs a high enough ceiling to detect even a very subtle sensation of change? Even LM agreed with raising the dose if, IF, it demonstrates efficacy". And if the doc is wrong, perhaps even Benzophobic, what next? He`s a good man, and I`m assuming a good doctor, friendly, engaging, gentle, understanding, and btw girls, cute. He`s also going to see me every two weeks for CBT. But 1st, I need to know just one thing- Is 3 mgs of Klonopin taken for 2 weeks an adequate trail, or is it safe to go to 4 mgs for an adequate length of time? What ever happened to starting out small, then titrating up the dose safely and gradually until it started to work, then settling at that dose? This is my experience, for the last 5 years! And I`m not too worried about possible side effects, I`m safe at home most of the time.
I’m sorry, I don’t know anything about Klonopin but if the man seems set against benzos there is some research out there showing their efficacy and *safety* in the treatment of anxiety disorders… I just can’t recall where to find ‘em. Can anyone relate to this struggle I`m having? Right now, I`m gonna lay down on the couch and rest. It`s working already, the sedation and calming effect, and I`m not anxious at all.
Aw, that sounds good! Sleep well! Vashti — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
Thanks for sharing Bob. Excuse my ignorance about this, but is knonopin frequently used in place of xanax? If so is there a general preference among doctors for one med over the other? — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
Bob, I’m so glad to hear it’s working already. This is great! I don’t understand these docs either. Most are so benzophobic! This is the problem I ran into last night with the new pDoc, which btw I’m not going to see. I’m going to see my old therapist and get a ride there because he’s about a half hour from our house. I hope the K works great for you and you don’t even have to think about increasing it to 4 mgs. {{{{{Bob}}}}} Love, Di
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I`m on it again, believe it or not, for the 4th time in the last 5 years. It didn`t help before, it`s not gonna help now… Unless my doctor and I both are mistaken, I went into his office fully prepared to state my case. I shared information with him about many of us here (no names, nothing personal), our collective experiences with CBT, relaxation techniques, the use of the meds, esp. Xanax and Klonopin, and the existance of our resident professional consutants. I even showed him the notes that I took while cramming for two hours before I had to go see him. Based on that as well as my past history, I said that Id like to try the K again, which was one our gurus` suggestions when I talked to him last month, beginning slowly, titrating the dosage upward until eventually ,I was sitting comfortably at 4 mgs. I told him that my extensive research, which includes sharing information with everyone here, incl. our resident experts who agree with the cautious and gradual increasing of the dose. After exchanging thoghts and ideas for a few more minutes, he got out his pad and began writing. I`m going to write you a script for 3 mgs, and I want you to come back and see me in two weeks, and then we`ll see. If, however, you tell me your not feeling any different at that time, well, then we may have to explore other options. I asked him, why can`t we raise the dose from 3 to 4, and try that for awhile, and again, I reminded him that I know quite a few people, here included, who take considerably more than that. And again, I reminded him what the "Doctor" (btw, sorry LM if I goofed, I was being cute again) said about raising the dose- "if it demonstrates efficacy in helping you tolerate anxiety". There-in lies the coonundrum. He replied by saying exactly what the 1st intern said, when she took me off the 3 mgs a day, after only 2 weeks, cold-turkey, btw. He said if I tell him at our next appt in two weeks that it feels like it`s working, even slightly, then we`ll reevaluate and possibly raise the dose. However, if there`s no change, we`ll stop it because two weeks at 3 mgs a day is basically right on target. If it ain`t doin` nuthin` by then, it never will. And he reiterated all the old concerns about posslble overdose. Friends, I don`t know what to believe. But I know I`ve come to the right place to seek advice. Is this approach the correct one? Is 3 mgs a high enough ceiling to detect even a very subtle sensation of change? Even LM agreed with raising the dose if, IF, it demonstrates efficacy". And if the doc is wrong, perhaps even Benzophobic, what next? He`s a good man, and I`m assuming a good doctor, friendly, engaging, gentle, understanding, and btw girls, cute. He`s also going to see me every two weeks for CBT. But 1st, I need to know just one thing- Is 3 mgs of Klonopin taken for 2 weeks an adequate trail, or is it safe to go to 4 mgs for an adequate length of time? What ever happened to starting out small, then titrating up the dose safely and gradually until it started to work, then settling at that dose? This is my experience, for the last 5 years! And I`m not too worried about possible side effects, I`m safe at home most of the time. Can anyone relate to this struggle I`m having? Right now, I`m gonna lay down on the couch and rest. It`s working already, the sedation and calming effect, and I`m not anxious at all. Thanks for reading! Bob
– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
I`m on it again, believe it or not, for the 4th time in the last 5 years. It didn`t help before, it`s not gonna help now… Unless my doctor and I both are mistaken, I went into his office fully prepared to state my case. I shared information with him about many of us here (no names, nothing personal), our collective experiences with CBT, relaxation techniques, the use of the meds, esp. Xanax and Klonopin, and the existance of our resident professional consutants. I even showed him the notes that I took while cramming for two hours before I had to go see him. Based on that as well as my past history, I said that Id like to try the K again, which was one our gurus` suggestions when I talked to him last month, beginning slowly, titrating the dosage upward until eventually ,I was sitting comfortably at 4 mgs. I told him that my extensive research, which includes sharing information with everyone here, incl. our resident experts who agree with the cautious and gradual increasing of the dose. After exchanging thoghts and ideas for a few more minutes, he got out his pad and began writing. I`m going to write you a script for 3 mgs, and I want you to come back and see me in two weeks, and then we`ll see. If, however, you tell me your not feeling any different at that time, well, then we may have to explore other options. I asked him, why can`t we raise the dose from 3 to 4, and try that for awhile, and again, I reminded him that I know quite a few people, here included, who take considerably more than that. And again, I reminded him what the "Doctor" (btw, sorry LM if I goofed, I was being cute again) said about raising the dose- "if it demonstrates efficacy in helping you tolerate anxiety". There-in lies the coonundrum. He replied by saying exactly what the 1st intern said, when she took me off the 3 mgs a day, after only 2 weeks, cold-turkey, btw. He said if I tell him at our next appt in two weeks that it feels like it`s working, even slightly, then we`ll reevaluate and possibly raise the dose. However, if there`s no change, we`ll stop it because two weeks at 3 mgs a day is basically right on target. If it ain`t doin` nuthin` by then, it never will. And he reiterated all the old concerns about posslble overdose. Friends, I don`t know what to believe. But I know I`ve come to the right place to seek advice. Is this approach the correct one? Is 3 mgs a high enough ceiling to detect even a very subtle sensation of change? Even LM agreed with raising the dose if, IF, it demonstrates efficacy". And if the doc is wrong, perhaps even Benzophobic, what next? He`s a good man, and I`m assuming a good doctor, friendly, engaging, gentle, understanding, and btw girls, cute. He`s also going to see me every two weeks for CBT. But 1st, I need to know just one thing- Is 3 mgs of Klonopin taken for 2 weeks an adequate trail, or is it safe to go to 4 mgs for an adequate length of time? What ever happened to starting out small, then titrating up the dose safely and gradually until it started to work, then settling at that dose? This is my experience, for the last 5 years! And I`m not too worried about possible side effects, I`m safe at home most of the time. Can anyone relate to this struggle I`m having? Right now, I`m gonna lay down on the couch and rest. It`s working already, the sedation and calming effect, and I`m not anxious at all. Thanks for reading! Bob — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
