status report
Question:
From the experience I am going thru now, I would add another one. – some women are able to take HRT to relieve symptoms during peri and *some* (not all) of the symptoms return when they stop HRT. (intact women) Karen Marshall On 24 Jul 1998 05:38:32 GMT, Karen Kay <ka…@wordwrite.com> wrote: <snip> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Well, there are really four cases for intact women, I think: > – some women are able to use HRT to ease them through the > worst of the peri symptoms, and when they stop, the symptoms do > not return > – some women are able to use HRT to reduce symptoms > during peri, but when they stop HRT, the symptoms return to > the level they were prior to HRT use > – some women are not able to use HRT to ease symptoms during > peri–the HRT makes their symptoms worse, or gives them new > symptoms. When they stop HRT, the symptoms return to > the level they were prior to HRT use [I think we've heard > some stories in this category, but I don't remember any more; please > speak up if you fit this profile] > – *some women are not able to use HRT to ease symptoms–the HRT > makes their symptoms worse, or gives them new symptoms. When > they stop HRT, the symptoms stay at the same high level they > were during HRT use for a significant length of time afterwards > *=postmeno category >I’m in the first category, Terri’s in the last. >I made the first three categories peri categories and the last >postmeno. I think it’s wrong to lump peri and postmeno use of HRT >together; I think the level of hormones you start with is significant. >(Not only because of the hormones themselves, but because of the way >your body reacts to them.) >This categorization leaves me with some questions. 1) I have the >impression from posters to A.s.m. that postmenopausal women who try >HRT are more likely to suffer from ‘backlash’ symptoms such as Terri >described. Is this true? Any confirmation or denial from anyone? I >haven’t even tried to remember this kind of stuff, and I certainly >haven’t written it down, so it’s one ear (eye?) and out the other… >I think I would automatically put surgically or chemically castrated >women in the postmeno category, because their bodies are not producing >significant amounts of estrogen. (But really they should be counted >separately. I’m just saying that I bet they fall into the 4th category >quite often.) >2) Does the length of time one takes HRT have an effect on the >severity of the backlash symptoms? I noticed that someone else who was >on HRT for 1 1/2 years, like me, also didn’t have much of a problem >going off it. >I had several more questions, but it’s too late to remember them. >I think those are the major ones. >Karen > ka…@wordwrite.com
Response:
Hi, Maryann — your menopause from hell does indeed sound hellish. Two practical suggestions: 1. Try taking the provera at night. Some folks have reported that the bad emotional stuff that hits them with Provera isn’t nearly as bad if they can sleep through it, plus a couple have said that taking Provera makes them drowsy, so it may help you to sleep if you do so. I used to take continuous Provera to control bleeding. My moods were fine and I slept like a baby. 2. The old-fashioned folding fan is a good and practical short-term palliative for hot flashes or just plain heat. I’m just back from a vacation to England during which I attended a concert in the incredibly large, incredibly hot Albert Hall. I counted a couple dozen practical women who had brought their own fans along. A kindly gentleman in the box next to ours had purchased a *huge* novelty fan at a charity shop and was fanning his entire box (and ours too occasionally). Regards, vlhb…@aol.com
Response:
Karen Kay wrote: > Terri <vl-hb…@erols.com> wrote: > > Karen Kay wrote: > > . There is > >> also anecdotal evidence from Terri (and others) that one’s symptoms > >> are *worse* when stopping HRT than they would be otherwise. > > Er um not quite. > I guess I should have said ‘when taking HRT and stopping’ instead of > ‘when stopping HRT’? I’m not quite sure what your point was. > Karen > ka…@wordwrite.com
Sorry. I was trying to say that hormones may not only not relieve problem symptoms, they can make them worse and stopping them may not return the original symptoms to the original level. Thus they may have very negative long term effects. Terri – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
Karen Kay wrote: > Terri <vl-hb…@erols.com> wrote: > > Karen Kay wrote: > >> Terri <vl-hb…@erols.com> wrote: > >> I guess I should have said ‘when taking HRT and stopping’ instead of > >> ‘when stopping HRT’? I’m not quite sure what your point was. > > Sorry. I was trying to say that hormones may not only not relieve problem symptoms, > > they can make them worse and stopping them may not return the original symptoms to > > the original level. Thus they may have very negative long term effects. > That was my point, too. That’s why I think ‘postpone’ is the wrong word.
So where is our word fairy? What shall we say to express these cautions? Cool Runnings, HomemakerJ
Response:
Karen Kay wrote:
. There is > also anecdotal evidence from Terri (and others) that one’s symptoms > are *worse* when stopping HRT than they would be otherwise.
Er um not quite. For the six weeks that I took prempro my symptoms of hot flashes, night sweats, insomnia, and depression got steadily worse until the hot flashes/sweats seemed to have neither beginning nor end. They were always there and sleep was impossible. Stopping the prempro didn’t make the exacerbation of symptoms abate for more than a year. I think that in my case the hormones aggravated an already difficult situation and made it almost unbearable. I also think that the prempro did *something* to my ovaries and/or pituitary which caused the year-long exacerbation of symptoms. At the time that I took the prempro I was more than a year past my last period and still having fairly difficult symptoms as well as suffering from severe depression and stress because my father was terminally ill. Despite my misgivings about hormones, I had decided to try them in order to gain a little breathing space. For me it was a serious mistake. Terri – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In other > words, I think ‘postpone’ is the wrong word. In both cases, your body > has moved on. In the second case, where symptoms are worse, I wonder > if they are worse because endogenous hormone levels have dropped > further while you were busy adding in exogenous hormones? When you > remove the exogenous horomones, your body reacts more, because the > difference in levels is greater. > Or something like that. But ‘postpone’ doesn’t seem quite right. I > know this is not your word, J. > >> I know, after extensive research and family history, that I > >> WANT to use estrogen supplements. I feel that I am damned if I do, and > >> equally damned if I don’t. > > One thing that I have found extremely healing is reading this > > newsgroup. There’s something to be said for misery loves company. I > > hope you find your symptoms cycling and feel better soon. > Ditto. > Karen > ka…@wordwrite.com
Response:
On Wed, 22 Jul 1998, shelly wrote: > The only studies on estrogen have been done on castrated women.
I immediately jump in to correct myself. The -vast majority- of studies on estrogen have only been done on castrated, or predominately castrated women. This breakdown information comes when reading the text of the study itself, not just the conclusions or abstacts. Also read yesterday that a survey of women with uterine cancer done in Washington State (USA) found that women on "low dose" (0.3mg) had the same rates of uterine cancer as those on higher doses. These cancers took approximately 6-7 years to develop. Whereas the recent "low-dose" estrogen study that is now being used to "prove" you can take estrogen without progesterone and get all the "benefits" and none of the risks, lasted only 2 year. So yes, some studies have been done on estrogen in non-castrated women. But look what they are finding. shelly
Response:
Hi Maryann, Maryann wrote: > Maryann – age 55 –
Given your age, you may very well be just about finished with peri-menopause. Given your symptoms you sound about 3/4 of the way through. > Am currently enduring a menopause from hell.
Technically you aren’t in menopause yet, if you still have periods. You’re experiencing a peri-menopause from hell. I’m sure that doesn’t make you feel one bit better. > I’ve switched from P/P cyclically > to Prempro to the patch with resulting ongoing breakthrough bleeding and > totally unpredictable periods.
You might want to read the posts in dejanews of lbranch, vlhb002 and Gail Gillespie. They have had bleeding problems and survived to write happily about them. > Hot flashes persist. Mood swings. Insomnia. > Depression. Migraines. (all are appreciably more intense since starting > with the estrogen patch and 12 days of Provera.)
So, just exactly what is the estrogen patch and provera helping? Seriously. My insomnia lasted about six months, being only intense for about three. I gather, possibly wrongly, that you are working and therefore catching up on your sleep during the day is not an option. What makes insomnia go away is time. Meanwhile, what comes to mind right off the top of my head are warm milk, a walk an hour before bedtime, a boring book, a private place to toss and turn, moving the alarm clock to face the wall, Valerian, Sleepy Time tea, a hot bath. For mood swings, privacy helps. Also, just letting the tears fall. For depression, if there are issues to be dealt with, find someone you trust to talk to. If you are depressed because of your peri from hell, venting to this newsgroup will help. For hot flashes we have fans, layered dressing, timing them to realize that they have a beginning and an end. I can’t help you with migraines, although there are women on the newsgroup who have them. > I have tried getting off the hormones and simply could > not stand the symptoms.
What symptoms were they? Did you have more symptoms than the ones you are currently describing? Are you aware that it can take even take a year for the symptoms that the HRT is post-poning to work your way through your system and wane? > Of course the MD suggests a hysterectomy as the best recourse.
Recourse for what? To "get rid" of menopause? > I know, after extensive research and family history, that I > WANT to use estrogen supplements. I feel that I am damned if I do, and > equally damned if I don’t.
One thing that I have found extremely healing is reading this newsgroup. There’s something to be said for misery loves company. I hope you find your symptoms cycling and feel better soon. Cool Runnings, HomemakerJ
Response:
Maryann – age 55 – went right from the Pill to Premarin and Provera. Am currently enduring a menopause from hell. I’ve switched from P/P cyclically to Prempro to the patch with resulting ongoing breakthrough bleeding and totally unpredictable periods. Hot flashes persist. Mood swings. Insomnia. Depression. Migraines. (all are appreciably more intense since starting with the estrogen patch and 12 days of Provera.) Endometrial bx and Pap smears are normal. I have tried getting off the hormones and simply could not stand the symptoms. Of course the MD suggests a hysterectomy as the best recourse. I know, after extensive research and family history, that I WANT to use estrogen supplements. I feel that I am damned if I do, and equally damned if I don’t.
Response:
On 22 Jul 1998, Maryann wrote: > best recourse. I know, after extensive research and family history, that I > WANT to use estrogen supplements. I feel that I am damned if I do, and > equally damned if I don’t.
The only studies on estrogen have been done on castrated women. Caution with attempting to view their post surgical-benefits in any meaningful way to your own situation. It simply can not be done. In 2007 we may know something more meaningful about these combination drugs and the intact woman. But right now, it is a material error to correlate ERT with HRT. Menopause is self-limiting. shelly
