T3 or T4 supplimentation?
Question:
Hey folks, I am going to ask my new pdoc on Monday to give me a thyroid supplement to help with getting the anti-depressants to work. So far none of them have ever worked for me. But which one is best for us? The Expert Consensus Guidelines seems to recommend both equally. I seem to remember an article posted here that recommended T3 for bipolars, but can’t find that article now. If any of you remember the article or are taking a thyroid supplement, can you please tell me which one you think is best. Thank you, Leslie J.
Response:
From much research: 1. T3 Cytomel is recommended more for unipolar depression; it has a higher success rate than T4. 2. T4 can convert to T3 sometimes, thus there usually isn’t a need for T3 supplementation. 3. T3 is five times more powerful than T4; it will keep you wide alert. 4. Dosages: T4- up to 50 mcg QD (equal to half a full thyroid replacement dose. Hypermetabolic doses of T4 have been used by Dr. Whybrow of UCLA to stop rapid cycling. T3 – 50 mcg QD or 25 mcg BID. One has to stop taking T3 after 2-3 weeks otherwise you will wreck your thyroid and need T3 supplementation for life! See: http://www.drmirkin.com/morehealth/G171.htm Before you buy.
Response:
Hey folks, I am going to ask my new pdoc on Monday to give me a thyroid supplement to help with getting the anti-depressants to work. So far none of them have ever worked for me. But which one is best for us? The Expert Consensus Guidelines seems to recommend both equally. I seem to remember an article posted here that recommended T3 for bipolars, but can’t find that article now. If any of you remember the article or are taking a thyroid supplement, can you please tell me which one you think is best. Thank you, Leslie J.
All I have ever heard about is synthroid, a synthetic thyroid hormone. Basically Leslie I don’t think T3 or T4 come directly in a bottle, but the body produces them. The thyroid medications help get the thyroid back in balance. Few links, mostly nothing that you haven’t fished up yourself. couple list the various trade names of thyroid meds. I took synthroid once, the minimum dose and got a bad case of insomnia, didn’t sleep for a week, just minutes at a time, thought I would never sleep again. Vern http://www.thriveonline.com/health/Library/drug/drug417.html http://www.umds.ac.uk/physiology/banks/thyroid1.htm http://www.neurosci.pharm.utoledo.edu/MBC3320/thyroid.htm http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/thyroidhormonessystemic20… ml#SXX05
Response:
I would suggest for you FIRST to go to a medical doctor and have your fuctions tested. Don’t let a pdoc mess with your thyroid. He/She is NOT qualified to. You wouldn’t let a podiatrist deliver your baby… Thyroid is nothing to mess with. Linda – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hey folks, I am going to ask my new pdoc on Monday to give me a thyroid supplement to help with getting the anti-depressants to work. So far none of them have ever worked for me. But which one is best for us? The Expert Consensus Guidelines seems to recommend both equally. I seem to remember an article posted here that recommended T3 for bipolars, but can’t find that article now. If any of you remember the article or are taking a thyroid supplement, can you please tell me which one you think is best. Thank you, Leslie J.
Response:
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. L – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -From much research: 1. T3 Cytomel is recommended more for unipolar depression; it has a higher success rate than T4. 2. T4 can convert to T3 sometimes, thus there usually isn’t a need for T3 supplementation. 3. T3 is five times more powerful than T4; it will keep you wide alert. 4. Dosages: T4- up to 50 mcg QD (equal to half a full thyroid replacement dose. Hypermetabolic doses of T4 have been used by Dr. Whybrow of UCLA to stop rapid cycling. T3 – 50 mcg QD or 25 mcg BID. One has to stop taking T3 after 2-3 weeks otherwise you will wreck your thyroid and need T3 supplementation for life! See: http://www.drmirkin.com/morehealth/G171.htm Before you buy.
Response:
Great information, Vern. Thanks. Linda – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Added a link to Synthroid site. All I have ever heard about is synthroid, a synthetic thyroid hormone. Basically Leslie I don’t think T3 or T4 come directly in a bottle, but the body produces them. The thyroid medications help get the thyroid back in balance. Few links, mostly nothing that you haven’t fished up yourself. couple list the various trade names of thyroid meds. I took synthroid once, the minimum dose and got a bad case of insomnia, didn’t sleep for a week, just minutes at a time, thought I would never sleep again. Vern http://www.synthroid.com/consumer/1110.htm http://www.thriveonline.com/health/Library/drug/drug417.html http://www.umds.ac.uk/physiology/banks/thyroid1.htm http://www.neurosci.pharm.utoledo.edu/MBC3320/thyroid.htm http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/thyroidhormonessystemic20… ml#SXX05
Response:
Also even if your test show good levels that does not mean you are getting enough to your brian!!! Sometimes those test don’t mean
Who’s Brian?
Response:
As some of you may have figured out I don’t know much about a lot of things, but when I am incorrect in a statement, I will back paddle and try and straighten out my misunderstanding before it spreads. RE T3 and T4 thyroid hormones they evidently do come in a "bottle". Either from animal or a synthetic replacement. T4 as in synthroid is the only one I have personal experience with. LyndaNP pointed out in another post there is a T3 replacement hormone also. Get medical advice, not second hand misunderstanding from medical websites!!!!!!! It is obvious even to this dunce that the endocrine system is very complex.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Added a link to Synthroid site. Hey folks, I am going to ask my new pdoc on Monday to give me a thyroid supplement to help with getting the anti-depressants to work. So far none of them have ever worked for me. But which one is best for us? The Expert Consensus Guidelines seems to recommend both equally. I seem to remember an article posted here that recommended T3 for bipolars, but can’t find that article now. If any of you remember the article or are taking a thyroid supplement, can you please tell me which one you think is best. Thank you, Leslie J. All I have ever heard about is synthroid, a synthetic thyroid hormone. Basically Leslie I don’t think T3 or T4 come directly in a bottle, but the body produces them. The thyroid medications help get the thyroid back in balance. Few links, mostly nothing that you haven’t fished up yourself. couple list the various trade names of thyroid meds. I took synthroid once, the minimum dose and got a bad case of insomnia, didn’t sleep for a week, just minutes at a time, thought I would never sleep again. Vern http://www.synthroid.com/consumer/1110.htm http://www.thriveonline.com/health/Library/drug/drug417.html http://www.umds.ac.uk/physiology/banks/thyroid1.htm http://www.neurosci.pharm.utoledo.edu/MBC3320/thyroid.htm
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/thyroidhormonessystemic20… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ml#SXX05
Response:
Are you having another spazz attack Vern? Please go to the doctor and ask for ECT. If you act on those crazy thoughts you will go to jail for ever.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Added a link to Synthroid site. Hey folks, I am going to ask my new pdoc on Monday to give me a thyroid supplement to help with getting the anti-depressants to work. So far none of them have ever worked for me. But which one is best for us? The Expert Consensus Guidelines seems to recommend both equally. I seem to remember an article posted here that recommended T3 for bipolars, but can’t find that article now. If any of you remember the article or are taking a thyroid supplement, can you please tell me which one you think is best. Thank you, Leslie J. All I have ever heard about is synthroid, a synthetic thyroid hormone. Basically Leslie I don’t think T3 or T4 come directly in a bottle, but the body produces them. The thyroid medications help get the thyroid back in balance. Few links, mostly nothing that you haven’t fished up yourself. couple list the various trade names of thyroid meds. I took synthroid once, the minimum dose and got a bad case of insomnia, didn’t sleep for a week, just minutes at a time, thought I would never sleep again. Vern http://www.synthroid.com/consumer/1110.htm http://www.thriveonline.com/health/Library/drug/drug417.html http://www.umds.ac.uk/physiology/banks/thyroid1.htm http://www.neurosci.pharm.utoledo.edu/MBC3320/thyroid.htm
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/thyroidhormonessystemic20… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ml#SXX05
Response:
Hi Leslie, I have enclosed some info on thyroid supplementation. I did take Cytomel (T3) to augment an AD. I had tried Symmetrel and it gave me violent headaches. Good luck! Love, Lynda I am going to ask my new pdoc on Monday to give me a thyroid supplement to help with getting the anti-depressants to work. So far none of them have ever worked for me. But which one is best for us? The Expert Consensus Guidelines seems to recommend both equally. I seem to remember an article posted here that recommended T3 for bipolars, but can’t find that article now. If any of you remember the article or are taking a thyroid supplement, can you please tell me which one you think is best.
It is prudent to be screened for any thyroid condition as it can mask the SXs of BP Disorder. Here is a link: http://www.onhealth.com/ch1/columnist/item,46699.asp Key in "Bipolar and Hormones " http://www.wpic.pitt.edu/stanley/2ndbipconf/poster.htm "LONGITUDINAL ASSESSMENT OF THYROID FUNCTION AND MOOD STABILITY IN MANIC DEPRESSIVE ILLNESS" Authors: M.A. Frye, K.D. Denicoff, A. Bryan, E. Smith-Jackson, S. Omar Ali, D. Luckenbaugh, G.S. Leverich, and R.M. Post There is an emerging consensus that a decrease within the normal range of thyroid indices occurs in association with an acute response to a number of antidepressant, mood stabilizing, and cognitive therapy treatments (Whybrow 1981, Joffe 1994, 1996). Longer term studies of thyroid indices, however, have shown a number of predictors of relative mood instability, including low T3 levels associated with relapse in bipolar patients maintained on lithium (Hatterer 1988, Baumgartner 1995) and increased incidence of concurrent panic disorder and relative antidepressant inefficacy with subclinical hypothyroidism (Joffe 1992). This study was conducted to evaluate the incidence of de novo hypothyroidism (grades I & II) and to assess whether these thyroid changes were associated with clinical response or mood instability. 52 bipolar outpatients participated in a randomized double blind study comparing efficacy of lithium, carbamazepine, and lithium/carbamazepine combination for up to 3 years of prospective evaluation (Denicoff 1996). Patients on thyroid supplementation prior to prospective study were not included in this analysis. The incidence of de novo hypothyroidism grade I or II was 40% (12/30) during lithium monotherapy, 0% during carbamazepine monotherapy, and 17.6% (3/17) for the lithium/carbamazepine combination. This group was 67% (8/12) women, 33% (4/12) men, 67% (8/12) rapid cyclers, and 33% (4/12) nonrapid cyclers. The time course to develop an elevated TSH was 76.6 days +/- 49.7 into lithium monotherapy (mean dose 1247.1 mg +/- 261.8) and 119.3 days +/- 56.3 into the combination (mean dose lithium 1178.6 mg +/- 103.5 and carbamazepine 614.3 mg +/- 186.4). Pearson correlation of elevated TSH with LCM, Hamilton, Young, and Spielberger ratings were not significant. There was no significant difference between responders and nonresponders based on subclinical hypothyroid state (Fisher’s exact test: one tail p=0.53 for monotherapy, p=0.36 for combination). Further data will be presented evaluating free T4, T3, and TSH with mood at monthly intervals over the course of prospective treatment. Preliminary analysis reveals a protective effect by carbamazepine for lithium-induced subclinical hypothyroidism.
Response:
Added a link to Synthroid site.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey folks, I am going to ask my new pdoc on Monday to give me a thyroid supplement to help with getting the anti-depressants to work. So far none of them have ever worked for me. But which one is best for us? The Expert Consensus Guidelines seems to recommend both equally. I seem to remember an article posted here that recommended T3 for bipolars, but can’t find that article now. If any of you remember the article or are taking a thyroid supplement, can you please tell me which one you think is best. Thank you, Leslie J. All I have ever heard about is synthroid, a synthetic thyroid hormone. Basically Leslie I don’t think T3 or T4 come directly in a bottle, but the body produces them. The thyroid medications help get the thyroid back in balance. Few links, mostly nothing that you haven’t fished up yourself. couple list the various trade names of thyroid meds. I took synthroid once, the minimum dose and got a bad case of insomnia, didn’t sleep for a week, just minutes at a time, thought I would never sleep again. Vern http://www.synthroid.com/consumer/1110.htm http://www.thriveonline.com/health/Library/drug/drug417.html http://www.umds.ac.uk/physiology/banks/thyroid1.htm http://www.neurosci.pharm.utoledo.edu/MBC3320/thyroid.htm
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/thyroidhormonessystemic20… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ml#SXX05
