Insomnia anyone?
Question:
On 9 Nov 1998 00:10:14 GMT, Karen Kay <ka…@wordwrite.com> wrote: >When was the last time someone you don’t have a romantic relationship >told you specifically why they appreciated you?
Actually it’s those I _don’t_ have a romantic relationship with who tell me that they appreciate me, male and female alike. The ‘involvements’ only say nice things when they want something, usually ‘one’ thing. Bear in mind I do live in England 
Joanna
Response:
Karen wrote: >When was the last time someone you don’t have a romantic relationship >told you specifically why they appreciated you?
My boss tells me, and people I do work for tell me, but maybe that doesn’t count. I also get a bunch of strokes because of the pleasure I give kids at pony parties. And I do the same for/to others. But your point is well-taken, Karen, that normally we do not think to tell people that we appreciate them and what they do. Wendy hypo…@aol.com
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Ruth wrote: > I would like to be able >to find something herbal or over-the-counter that I could use sometimes >since in any event I must "ration" my prescription sleeping pills.
Well, I had a sweet potato and a banana baked together with maple syrup, and I was very asleep an hour later. This was in the middle of the afternoon (maybe that doesn’t count). Wendy hypo…@aol.com
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Ruth wrote: >(Before you think this excursion was prompted by brain fog, it was >prompted by the fact that my aunt, who is, um, fond of food, had never >been there.)
Truly noble, Ruth. I know that hill. And on a Sunday. Wendy hypo…@aol.com
Response:
Karen Kay wrote: > Xavarella <xavare…@unforgettable.com> wrote: > > I can’t speak for DM cough syrup, but I keep a bottle of Benadryl liquid > > allergy medication in the medicine chest for those nights when NOTHING will > > allow me to get to sleep. That stuff puts me right out. The active > > ingredient is diphenhydramine hydrochloride. > You should probably be careful taking this with phenergan as they are > both antihistamines. > Karen > ka…@wordwrite.com
Unfortunately diphenhydramine is one of those drugs to which I have an opposite, paradoxical, or bad reaction — it gets me wired. I have, however, printed out Robert’s post and will take it with me when I have my annual checkup to see what my doctor thinks. I would like to be able to find something herbal or over-the-counter that I could use sometimes since in any event I must "ration" my prescription sleeping pills. RuthJ
Response:
Karen Kay wrote: > Pamela Dean Dyer-Bennet <p…@ddb.com> wrote: > > Well, goodness, poor babies, doesn’t anybody else ever appreciate > > them? > When was the last time someone you don’t have a romantic relationship > told you specifically why they appreciated you? > Karen > ka…@wordwrite.com
Oh yes, Karen, about an hour ago. I spent the afternoon with my Father, my 86-year old Uncle (my late Mother’s brother) and my 8?-year old aunt. Bay area locals will appreciate the humor of my loading three 80-something year olds into my smallish car, double parking in front of the Cliff House (because half their parking lot is blocked for no-show tour buses and they have only 2 handicapped spots for a huge tourist-frequented restaurant), unloading my passengers parking, and climbing back up the hill. My aunt and my Father can barely walk, and my Father and my uncle can barely hear. I had to park wwaaaaay down on the beach and despite my emphasizing my guests’ age and infirmities when I made the reservations we waited half an hour for a table. We could hardly hear each other, which made for interesting conversation. (Before you think this excursion was prompted by brain fog, it was prompted by the fact that my aunt, who is, um, fond of food, had never been there.) My Father ate with a bit of coaxing from me (thank God this was not one of those days he had to be fed) and he rode back with me while I took my aunt and uncle back downtown and them him back out to the beach again. While I was "unloading" my aunt and uncle (getting the seatbelt fastened on her was a challenge) both of them kissed and thanked me profusely for taking such good care not only of my Father but of my Mother’s estate (which was a mess). The last four years have probably been the most difficult of my life, and although I never thought I would feel close to my relatives, their heartfelt appreciation makes my work feel like the honor it has been. RuthJ (proud to be a dutiful daughter)
Response:
In article <364659AC.5…@pacbell.net>, RuthJ <rcjac…@pacbell.net> wrote: >Unfortunately diphenhydramine is one of those drugs to which I have an >opposite, paradoxical, or bad reaction — it gets me wired. I have, >however, printed out Robert’s post and will take it with me when I have >my annual checkup to see what my doctor thinks.
I want to re-emphasize that I’m not recommending dextromethorphan. There are some receptors in the brain involved in sleep disturbances. The one getting the most attention is the GABAA receptor, which is sensitive to progesterone by-products. Another is sensitive to endorphins. If this receptor is involved in the sort of insomnia typical of menopause, then you should notice some difference with dextromethorphan. So it’s a simple indicator. If endorphins are involved, then accupressure/accupuncture might be used to treat this insomnia.
Response:
Karen Kay <ka…@wordwrite.com> writes: >Pamela Dean Dyer-Bennet <p…@ddb.com> wrote: >> I’m very lucky. >Yes, you are.:) I am very lucky, too, about some other things. Some >days I go around telling people how kind, helpful, and generous they >are to me and they look at me funny, but I don’t care.:)
Well, goodness, poor babies, doesn’t anybody else ever appreciate them? Good for you. I should do some of that too instead of grumping at people. (It’s been one of those days — but at least I did fill the empty composter up with old bedding and one of my stray cats is nested down into it just in time for the snow to come.) — "Moreover, fantasticality does a good deal better than sham psychology." – Virginia Woolf ———————————————————– Pamela Dean Dyer-Bennet p…@ddb.com
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I am off the phenergan, but thank you for your concern, Karen. Karen Kay <ka…@wordwrite.com> wrote in article <7229mc$h5…@samba.rahul.net>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Xavarella <xavare…@unforgettable.com> wrote: > > I can’t speak for DM cough syrup, but I keep a bottle of Benadryl liquid > > allergy medication in the medicine chest for those nights when NOTHING will > > allow me to get to sleep. That stuff puts me right out. The active > > ingredient is diphenhydramine hydrochloride. > You should probably be careful taking this with phenergan as they are > both antihistamines. > Karen > ka…@wordwrite.com
Response:
Did anyone else in this thread get spammed by some author of an insomnia book??? Gee, nowhere is safe from them!!!! I’m still grumpy from my prolonged bout of insomnia and I don’t appreciate this. Anyway of stopping it? Jan
Response:
Karen Kay <ka…@wordwrite.com> writes: >Pamela Dean Dyer-Bennet <p…@ddb.com> wrote: >> I actually can’t remember if anybody has said HRT helps this, but if I >> had a day job and I thought HRT would help it, I’d sure try some for >> at least a few months. >It didn’t touch my insomnia; I think we’ve had more reports of it not >helping than helping.
In my case it would be the progesterone component; my insomnia was much worse before Provera when the estrogen was ramping up. But I’d rather not. Luckily I haven’t got a day job. >> I guess we all have a symptom or two that we >> really just hate even more than the others; insomnia is pretty high on >> my list although wandering PMS is worse. >This is interesting. I started having insomnia a year or so before the >wandering cramps hit. (I haven’t traditionally had PMS, but I always >had bad cramps the 1st day of my period, frequently involving nausea.) >After one month where they were out of synch with my period and >lasted for 5 days, I went to the doctor and was put on bc pills.
Oh, ow. I’ve had misplaced cramps but I have never had really bad ones except with bleeding. I think I’d go to the doctor too; I wouldn’t even assume they were uterine cramps. >The insomnia I had was waking up at 2:30 every morning; I could >usually get back to sleep. I didn’t start treating it until it got to >the point where I would wake up at 2:30 and not get back to sleep for >2-4 hours. No problem. But the wandering cramps immediately sent me to >the doctor.
The only thing I actually went to the doctor for was the heavy, heavy bleeding, and even then it was mostly because it’s one of the standard signs of cancer. But again, if I had a day job anything that really disrupted it would have me in there pretty fast. I’m very lucky. — "Moreover, fantasticality does a good deal better than sham psychology." – Virginia Woolf ———————————————————– Pamela Dean Dyer-Bennet p…@ddb.com
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Karen–what’s a "wandering cramp?" You said you got them, and I don’t get it. Regards, vlhb…@aol.com
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But if asm is anythng to go by, cats seem to win. Hi Joanna: Seam’s so mine is a lovely no trouble at all he is the only one looking at me at 2:30 in the morning.After a bout with the flue and 4 straight night’s of insomnia to go with it I feel terrible inapt with the computer or anything ells today. Regard’s Kit J Prescott <joa…@lotos-land.demon.co.uk> wrote in article <3649c45f.21558…@news.demon.co.uk>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On 7 Nov 1998 03:01:39 GMT, kissths…@aol.com (KissThSkyy) wrote: > >Joanna writes: > >> Here nobody ever gives a damn or even looks. > >Sure we care, Joanna … it’s just we’re all here at the > >computer at 2:30 in the morning, too! > This blasted English language! I didn’t mean you don’t care as in > ‘concerned’. I meant you don’t care as in ‘being judgemental’. > I love the fact that this ng is alive all hours. > I’m fascinated that you all have cats, lots of them. Are they the > most common domestic pet in the USA? Here, people tend to be either > into cats or dogs about equally. You do find households with both > mainly in the countryside. But if asm is anythng to go by, cats seem > to win. > best wishes > Joanna
Response:
I can’t speak for DM cough syrup, but I keep a bottle of Benadryl liquid allergy medication in the medicine chest for those nights when NOTHING will allow me to get to sleep. That stuff puts me right out. The active ingredient is diphenhydramine hydrochloride. Robert Ames <gn…@istar.ca> wrote in article <oh6Q2YDFG+pG09…@istar.ca>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Based on some reading I’ve been doing, I have a theory that > dextromethorphan, the "DM" cough suppressant found in some cough > medicines, might help in this form of insomnia. This is based on > one of the receptors which might be involved. > I want to emphasize that this isn’t advice or a recommendation, in > fact taking DM more than once for this would probably be a bad idea. > But if someone tries it, it would be useful to know whether or not it > is effective. If so, then we can look for more suitable products > that work in a similar fashion.
Response:
YES………….I hate it. I have been taking one Sominex each night which has helped. Also since I wake up several times feeling very warm I have a damp washcloth next to my bed with ice water. I take a drink of cold water and place the damp wash cloth behind my neck and usually fall right back asleep. This I sort of thought would help, and it has. It cools me down and the damp cloth relaxes me.
HELLO FROM NANCY FROM FLORIDA
Response:
On 7 Nov 1998 03:01:39 GMT, kissths…@aol.com (KissThSkyy) wrote: >Joanna writes: >> Here nobody ever gives a damn or even looks. >Sure we care, Joanna … it’s just we’re all here at the >computer at 2:30 in the morning, too!
This blasted English language! I didn’t mean you don’t care as in ‘concerned’. I meant you don’t care as in ‘being judgemental’. I love the fact that this ng is alive all hours. I’m fascinated that you all have cats, lots of them. Are they the most common domestic pet in the USA? Here, people tend to be either into cats or dogs about equally. You do find households with both mainly in the countryside. But if asm is anythng to go by, cats seem to win. best wishes Joanna
Response:
Joanna writes: > Here nobody ever gives a damn or even looks.
Sure we care, Joanna … it’s just we’re all here at the computer at 2:30 in the morning, too! LOL I find myself answering e-mail at 1:00 or 2:00 in the morning all the time. I like being at the computer when the house is quiet, with the occasional scratch-scratch-scratch of the litter pan (with five cats, there seems to be at least one cat in the litter pan at any given time). And, the time that shows on your post here is 9:50 so I would have to remember to add five hours to all your posts and therein lies the problem. I would have to *remember*! Ack! : ) Louise
Response:
I have had insomnia since January this year. I would fall asleep quickly from exhaustion at about 11 or 11.30 p.m. and wake at either 2 or 3 a.m. and that would be it for the night. After a while one feels quite, quite strange and begins to have problems driving a car, preparing food, with tripping and falling etc, etc. Well, sleep deprivation is a form of torture. I really feel for you. I got told to ‘just accept it’, but when I started tripping over, burning myself, cutting myself and having similar accidents from the appalling fatigue, I started to get really serious about doing something. this insommnia was all new to me and very lonely, frightening and disturbing. I takes all one’s strength just to cope. and I;m not a wimp either. I got a patch (Climara) 2 weeks ago and started sleeping, and sleeping and sleeping. I also have a herbal tea mixture which seems to work: Valerian, melissa, hops, skullcap. Oh the relief. I tried sleep tapes, small carbo. snack before going to be, calcium, magnesium, relaxation tapes, stopping coffee, a psychologist, a sleep experiment group (who would accept me ‘cos it was too bad!!!)., getting a new bed, going to bed the same time every night .. in short, every trick of the trade in all those ‘how to sleep books’. Jan
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On Fri, 06 Nov 1998 02:54:30 -0800, dibe…@postoffice.pacbell.net wrote: >This has been going on for about 6-8 months and I am getting desperate. >Any ideas anyone.
Here I am at 2.30 am and unable to sleep. So it is very normal. I have found that when I’ve taken progesterone last thing I do sleep better but the general fogginess and lethargy linger too much. I wouldn’t recommend HRT just to treat insomnia. Adapting your life-style, if you can, is undoubtedly the best option and *not worrying what other’s may think*. This is obviously easier for those of us who usually live alone. It’s funny but I post to several newsgroups and on all the others people sometimes comment on my time of posting. Here nobody ever gives a damn or even looks. I honestly don’t think there is a cure, merely acceptance. I’m lucky in that I work with foreign students from all over the world who admit to tiredness in a way that we don’t in the UK as though it’s a kind of weakness. If we didn’t have this awful Calvinist work ethic and had more understanding of human frailties I feel pretty sure we’d sail through all the problems of life, including perimeno a lot more easily. best wishes Joanna
Response:
In article <71vd53$kg…@news.NERO.NET>, kig…@ucs.orst.edu (Pat Kight) wrote: >In article <3642D566.18D0D…@postoffice.pacbell.net>, > <dibe…@pacbell.net> wrote: >>Three a.m. and, rather than lie awake abed, I searched for a menopausal >>support group and here I am. I’ve scanned the postings and find no >>mention of insomnia. Am I the only one? >No, you’re not the only one — we just haven’t talked about it lately. You
Based on some reading I’ve been doing, I have a theory that dextromethorphan, the "DM" cough suppressant found in some cough medicines, might help in this form of insomnia. This is based on one of the receptors which might be involved. I want to emphasize that this isn’t advice or a recommendation, in fact taking DM more than once for this would probably be a bad idea. But if someone tries it, it would be useful to know whether or not it is effective. If so, then we can look for more suitable products that work in a similar fashion.
Response:
Pat Kight wrote: > In article <3642D566.18D0D…@postoffice.pacbell.net>, > <dibe…@pacbell.net> wrote: > >Three a.m. and, rather than lie awake abed, I searched for a menopausal > >support group and here I am. I’ve scanned the postings and find no > >mention of insomnia. Am I the only one?
(Pat’s post snipped) Hi and welcome to a.s.m. My pattern of meno-related insomnia which, in my case, came on *very* suddenly about a year ago, pretty much now coincides with Pat’s — I don’t have trouble getting to sleep but wake up at 3 or 4 a.m. and never get back to sleep. The most important thing, I think, is to know that you are *not* alone and that what to me was a frightening symptom is, in fact, quite common and goes through phases. One thing I noticed both this year and last is that the switch from daylight time to standard time seemed to trigger worse insomnia. Here are a few suggestions / experiences of mine which I hope help: Like Pat, sometimes I get up and read, get on the internet, or do something distracting for a while. I am also fortunate enough to have a compassionate doctor who is willing to provide me with a limited supply of prescription sleeping pills. I do *not* take these every night, or, as the manufacturer recommends, for a period of 7 to 10 days, but on an "as needed" basis, approximately once a week, for example the night before I have an important appointment or if I happen to wake early enough in the night, say 1:00 a.m., that I can still take them. I have tried chamomile tea (didn’t seem to help), melatonin (gave me nightmares), 5htp (don’t even *think* of going there if you’ve ever had a bad reaction to any drug, in my humble lay opinion) and valerian (which I thought helped but in retrospect gave me hangovers). Like Pat I too live alone and don’t have to worry about disturbing other humans if I decide to get up in the middle of the night and have a glass or two of wine and watch the lights, but my cat gets mighty annoyed! By the way, alcohol is *not* recommended for this as it can mess up your sleep patterns, but sometimes I do it anyway… The good news about all of this is that it seems to be a phase that passes, which is what has kept me going this past year. The first few months I had crashing fatigue and brain fog; by the end of the summer I was sleeping fairly normally, and now I seem to be able to function on less sleep, so perhaps it is true we need less as we age (I am 52 but still have periods). I have had episodes of sleeping problems in the past, and apparently did so as a child although I do not recall it (menofog?), but my late Mother used to say "if you can’t sleep, then just rest, and your body will get the benefit of the rest." I find this to be true if I wake up about 2 hours before I want to, and entice the cat to sit on me and purr. I call this "drifting". RuthJ
Response:
dibe…@postoffice.pacbell.net writes: >Three a.m. and, rather than lie awake abed, I searched for a menopausal >support group and here I am. I’ve scanned the postings and find no >mention of insomnia. Am I the only one? I have tried everything from >toe-wiggling and sniffling onion to valium and trazodone. My doc has >sent me to sleep lab who say there is nothing abnormal (it takes 3 hours >to get to sleep, I wake every half hour or so with hours inbetween and >sometimes don’t sleep at all – is this normal!) meaning that I don’t >have apnea, narcolepsy, etc. I feel the root cause must be hormonal.
If you can get into Deja News you’ll find old threads on insomnia. Lots of us have had it. I found that taking calcium and magnesium before bedtime helped a lot, and so did valerian tea. Some people find that absolutely nothing helps. Some of them can get up and fold laundry and scrub floors, but if I tried that while insomniac I’d probably break my neck. The "just give in to it, worrying won’t help" crowd will answer you shortly, I’m sure. I actually can’t remember if anybody has said HRT helps this, but if I had a day job and I thought HRT would help it, I’d sure try some for at least a few months. I guess we all have a symptom or two that we really just hate even more than the others; insomnia is pretty high on my list although wandering PMS is worse. Anyway, you might want to study up on calcium and magnesium or on valerian or both, and if there don’t seem to be reasons in your history or symptoms not to try them, give them a try. — "Moreover, fantasticality does a good deal better than sham psychology." – Virginia Woolf ———————————————————– Pamela Dean Dyer-Bennet p…@ddb.com
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Three a.m. and, rather than lie awake abed, I searched for a menopausal support group and here I am. I’ve scanned the postings and find no mention of insomnia. Am I the only one? I have tried everything from toe-wiggling and sniffling onion to valium and trazodone. My doc has sent me to sleep lab who say there is nothing abnormal (it takes 3 hours to get to sleep, I wake every half hour or so with hours inbetween and sometimes don’t sleep at all – is this normal!) meaning that I don’t have apnea, narcolepsy, etc. I feel the root cause must be hormonal. This has been going on for about 6-8 months and I am getting desperate. Any ideas anyone.
Response:
Dibe…@postoffice.pacbell.net wrote: >Three a.m. and, rather than lie awake abed, I searched for a menopausal >support group and here I am. I’ve scanned the postings and find no >mention of insomnia. Am I the only one?
Hello, dibeach, and welcome to alt.support.menopause. You’re not the only one — insomnia is one of the 33 symptoms of menopause — but it just happens that no one is discussing it at the moment. We’ve had many postings on it in the past, though, and a search on Insomnia for this newsgroup through Dejanews should pull up a good many of them. The only time I had trouble with insomnia was a three-month period that I was taking Premphase — I hasten to add that I was prescribed the stuff prematurely by an inexperienced ob/gyn guy, so it wreaked real hormonal havoc with me. We’ve put together a collection of links about menopause on a page that a group of us are maintaining at http://members.tripod.com/menopause/ One of the links is to the excellent "Menopause and Beyond" site (http://www.oxford.net/~tishy/asm.html). Since I haven’t gone looking for insomnia advice, I’m not sure what the resources are there, but I suspect there are some thoughtful pieces. Several regular posters have written of insomnia as a transitory phase to be gotten through with adjustments in lifestyle. For those women hemmed in by professional and family commitments, this is easier said than done, of course — but I can recall from my own brief bout with it that getting up and doing something enjoyable sure beats lying in bed thinking anxious thoughts. Regards, vlhb…@aol.com
Response:
In article <3642D566.18D0D…@postoffice.pacbell.net>, <dibe…@pacbell.net> wrote: >Three a.m. and, rather than lie awake abed, I searched for a menopausal >support group and here I am. I’ve scanned the postings and find no >mention of insomnia. Am I the only one?
No, you’re not the only one — we just haven’t talked about it lately. You might take a look at www.dejanews.com — do a power search for alt.support.menopause and "insomnia," and you’ll probably turn up a *lot* of information. Insomnia is very much a symptom of menopause. And there’s also a considerable body of research that says older people generally require less sleep than younger people, so we may just be getting a rehearsal of the future. Whether it helps or not … Well, I haven’t found anything that "cures" my insomnia, which is fairly sporadic and tends to alternate with night sweats. When I can’t sleep, that’s pretty much it, I can’t sleep. Oddly, I have little trouble *falling* asleep, but I often wake at 3 or 4 a.m., *wide* awake, and unable to get back to sleep no matter what I do. So I get up. I try hard not to make my bed a tossing-and-turning battleground, because I want to associate it with comfort, not dread. I live alone, so I don’t have to worry about disturbing anyone except my cats when I rise and prowl the house in the wee hours. Sometimes I sit in my comfy chair and read until dawn (or sleepiness, which does sometimes eventually overtake me). Or get on the computer and read this newsgroup. If I’m feeling really wired, as is sometimes the case, I’ll clean the house or work on a project. Other times I just sit and think, or write in my journal, or listen to music. >This has been going on for about 6-8 months and I am getting desperate. >Any ideas anyone.
Some women here have reported success with melatonin and other OTC or folk remedies. Others try to adjust their lives to get an adequate amount of sleep at other-than-nighttime hours — naps in the afternoon, for instance. If you work full-time, this can be difficult. Is your nighttime sleeplessness leaving you exhausted during the days? If so, then grabbing a nap (even if it’s over lunch hour) may help. If not, perhaps you can try thinking of these nighttime hours as a gift of extra time when you don’t have to deal with anyone’s needs but your own. I’m not sure all of this is helpful; others on the list suffer worse insomnia than I do, and may be able to offer more practical solutions. But at least you know you’re not alone. Sometimes late at night I look out my window and notice lights on in other houses down my street; I fantasize an army of sleepless, midlife women, and wonder what we might *do* with all that extra time, if we only knew how… –Pat Kight kig…@peak.org
