Fibromyalgia: Explaining the unesplained pain

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Fibromyalgia: Explaining Unexplained Pain ImmuneSupport.com 06-21-2004 from WebMD Scientific American

Sex: It's wrong to have it when you don't want it vs. it's wrong to not to have it when they want it

Question:

"Jingle Bells" <jinglebells5…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:f804e152.0404182101.5ed6b555@posting.google.com… > There are those that are of the opinion that interested or not, sex is > something you owe your spouse. > Then there is the opposite view point that you are doing you and your > spouse a disservice if you ever have sex with them when you’re not > really interested. This is what my wife believed. > One the one hand, sex should be a mutually pleasurable experience, > -not something you just do for your spouse. > On the other hand, why is it so wrong to view sex as a gift you can > give to your spouse, even if you’d rather be doing something else? > Why such extreme views?

It has to do with context. If the context is an open, healthy, communicative marriage, your wife’s description is spot on. If you marriage is cluttered with trust issues, communication issues or whatever, you have a possible case of feeling bad things (husband feels ignore and unloved due to lack of sex, wife feels used and abused due to husband only wanting sex from her, regardless of her feelings… whatever). Fix the communication, trust and stuff and the rest can follow. S

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> WhansaMi wrote: >> > There are different types of pleasure one can have.  Jennifer and others >have >> > written eloquently about how they feel good even if they aren’t into the >sex. >> > I can buy that.  :-) >> > But, I don’t think that a person should feel obligated to have sex with >one’s >> > spouse if it, in any way, makes them feel used, or lesser than, or like >they >> > are being invaded.   >> What I have trouble understanding (or maybe relating to) is how does one >> feel used, lesser than, or invaded, by their spouse in the context of a >> loving relationship?! I can understand people in miserable marriages >> feeling that way, and by extension not wanting to have sex at all! But >> if one is in a relatively happy and loving relationship I can’t imagine >> feeling that way, even if at times sex is only to please the spouse. I >> am not talking about obligation, just don’t understand how one can feel >> used or invaded by a loving spouse! >I think that I understand it.  Let’s just say both partners had a >grueling day.  Both worked hard and are exhausted when they get home. >However, hubby decides to sit down and read the paper, while the wife >prepares dinner and gives the child a bath.  Okay, bed time arrives, >hubby, who had time to unwind, enjoy his dinner, wifey is even more >exhausted and can think of nothing more than her head hitting the >pillow.  Husband is horny, wife isn’t.  She does love him but is >simply exhausted.  If she decides to have sex due to not disappointing >him, she might feel a bit used.  If she decides that she is too tired, >that SHOULD be okay with the husband. >Maybe some of you in this newsgroup are too young to understand what >too tired feels like?  I don’t know, since hitting 50, I am often so >tired that I surprise myself.  I used to have a boy friend when I was >30, he was 41.  The 8 years that we were together, I remember >thinking, GOD, why is he so damn tired all of the time?  I now >understand it.  I wanted sex from him all of the time and he said that >I was draining him.  But in a good way.

Yes, there is that, too.  My husband is certainly feeling his age in a way that he never thought he would.  He’ll be fifty in August (shut up, Jennifer!!!)   I, too, have had periods where I was BONE TIRED.  In fact, back in 1988, I was diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome.  I’m not sure what CFS is anymore, but I’m pretty sure that what causes me to be that exhausted is a combination of what I eat (particularly how it affects my blood sugar) and my hormonal status (went off the birth control pills a couple of months ago, and that has made a difference.   I’ve said that being tired has the most impact on my libido, and that is true, but since mine is *so* much higher than DH’s I’ve not really been confronted often with situations were I don’t want to have sex, and he does.   I’ve been thinking more about what I’d written last night about my history, and how it affects my perceptions of this, but I’ll save that for another post. Sheila

Response:

how…@aol.com (Howian) writes: > Please tell me what you think.  Husband  has hard day in work, plenty of calls, > aggravation.  Comes home at 7:00, and wife asks him to tell their daughter to > the soccer game which lasts almost 2 hours.  Should husband feel used, > exploited, or should he get satisfaction by helping his wife, by giving her an > opportunity to relax and smiling when she says thank you, you really helped me > out.

Husband should realize that daughter is his daughter too, so taking her to soccer game is just all in a day’s work.

Response:

"Doug Anderson" <ethelthelogremovet…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:P8jmc.38061$Ik.2563093@attbi_s53… > how…@aol.com (Howian) writes: > > Please tell me what you think.  Husband  has hard day in work, plenty of calls, > > aggravation.  Comes home at 7:00, and wife asks him to tell their daughter to > > the soccer game which lasts almost 2 hours.  Should husband feel used, > > exploited, or should he get satisfaction by helping his wife, by giving her an > > opportunity to relax and smiling when she says thank you, you really helped me > > out. > Husband should realize that daughter is his daughter too, so taking > her to soccer game is just all in a day’s work.

And he should initiate discussions with his wife to plan future parental reponsibilities that can be anticipated, such as this one. — Tsam

Response:

Husband should enjoy watching his kid play soccer for two hours, and use that time as down time.  Question : what does wife do ??  is she a working woman out of the house or a stay at home mother ??  If she stays at home ( like me) she likely views you going with your children as good time for them and you, not "work" and some downtime for her having been taking care of the kids all day. Husband should feel satisfaction at helping his wife, and not feel used.  He is spending quality time with his kids, something many parents don’t get to do these days. KAren "Howian" <how…@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20040505210307.12637.00000852@mb-m15.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Please tell me what you think.  Husband  has hard day in work, plenty of calls, > aggravation.  Comes home at 7:00, and wife asks him to tell their daughter to > the soccer game which lasts almost 2 hours.  Should husband feel used, > exploited, or should he get satisfaction by helping his wife, by giving her an > opportunity to relax and smiling when she says thank you, you really helped me > out. > >Subject: Re: Sex: It’s wrong to have it when you don’t want it vs. it’s wrong > >to not to have it when they want it > >From: care…@msn.com  (Caren) > >Date: 4/21/2004 8:13 PM Eastern Standard Time > >Message-id: <3754f0b3.0404211613.1ccb2…@posting.google.com> > >Ellie <ellie_fi…@hotmail.com> wrote in message > ><news:Jkjhc.74772$_g4.15371599@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>… > >> Caren wrote: > >> > Ellie <ellie_fi…@hotmail.com> wrote in message > ><news:xt%gc.66673$_g4.11685783@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>… > >> >>What I have trouble understanding (or maybe relating to) is how does one > >> >>feel used, lesser than, or invaded, by their spouse in the context of a > >> >>loving relationship?! I can understand people in miserable marriages > >> >>feeling that way, and by extension not wanting to have sex at all! But > >> >>if one is in a relatively happy and loving relationship I can’t imagine > >> >>feeling that way, even if at times sex is only to please the spouse. I > >> >>am not talking about obligation, just don’t understand how one can feel > >> >>used or invaded by a loving spouse! > >> > I think that I understand it.  Let’s just say both partners had a > >> > grueling day.  Both worked hard and are exhausted when they get home. > >> > However, hubby decides to sit down and read the paper, while the wife > >> > prepares dinner and gives the child a bath.  Okay, bed time arrives, > >> > hubby, who had time to unwind, enjoy his dinner, wifey is even more > >> > exhausted and can think of nothing more than her head hitting the > >> > pillow.  Husband is horny, wife isn’t.  She does love him but is > >> > simply exhausted.  If she decides to have sex due to not disappointing > >> > him, she might feel a bit used.  If she decides that she is too tired, > >> > that SHOULD be okay with the husband. > >> Oh sure, I understand that scenario. But I would think that in that case > >> the wife may feel upset, angry, or maybe even hurt or something! I guess > >> to me feeling "used" or "invaded" bring loads that just don’t fit a > >> loving relationship! > >That is what doesn’t fit your perception of a loving relationship. > >People use words and feelings differently.  In this case, I’m telling > >you how I feel and I do love my husband.  I guess you would might feel > >upset, angry or even hurt.  I would feel used (given the scenario that > >I gave).  If you gave me a scenario, we might feel the same or we > >might feel differently.

Response:

>I feel that sex/giving of one’s body is not analogous to any other chore.

Oops.  didn’t proof carefully enough.  I meant to either say "… is not analogous to any other activity" OR "is not analogous to a chore". I started out with the first, and then switched to the second.  The result is that I make it sound like sex is a chore.  **Not** my intent.   Sheila   It – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->is something intensely personal for me, and involves a great amount of >vunerability and sharing of the *essence* of myself. >Therefore, I have a hard time comparing it to taking the kid to the soccer >game.  But, that’s just me.  Others here feel differently. >Sheila

Response:

"Howian" <how…@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20040505210307.12637.00000852@mb-m15.aol.com… > Please tell me what you think.  Husband  has hard day in work, plenty of calls, > aggravation.  Comes home at 7:00, and wife asks him to tell their daughter to > the soccer game which lasts almost 2 hours.  Should husband feel used, > exploited, or should he get satisfaction by helping his wife, by giving her an > opportunity to relax and smiling when she says thank you, you really helped me > out.

Husband needs to change jobs. JWB

Response:

>Please tell me what you think.  Husband  has hard day in work, plenty of >calls, >aggravation.  Comes home at 7:00, and wife asks him to tell their daughter to >the soccer game which lasts almost 2 hours.  Should husband feel used, >exploited, or should he get satisfaction by helping his wife, by giving her >an >opportunity to relax and smiling when she says thank you, you really helped >me >out.

Howie Howie, we’ve sort of been down this road here on ASM, but, in a nutshell… I feel that sex/giving of one’s body is not analogous to any other chore.  It is something intensely personal for me, and involves a great amount of vunerability and sharing of the *essence* of myself. Therefore, I have a hard time comparing it to taking the kid to the soccer game.  But, that’s just me.  Others here feel differently. Sheila

Response:

Please tell me what you think.  Husband  has hard day in work, plenty of calls, aggravation.  Comes home at 7:00, and wife asks him to tell their daughter to the soccer game which lasts almost 2 hours.  Should husband feel used, exploited, or should he get satisfaction by helping his wife, by giving her an opportunity to relax and smiling when she says thank you, you really helped me out. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Subject: Re: Sex: It’s wrong to have it when you don’t want it vs. it’s wrong >to not to have it when they want it >From: care…@msn.com  (Caren) >Date: 4/21/2004 8:13 PM Eastern Standard Time >Message-id: <3754f0b3.0404211613.1ccb2…@posting.google.com> >Ellie <ellie_fi…@hotmail.com> wrote in message ><news:Jkjhc.74772$_g4.15371599@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>… >> Caren wrote: >> > Ellie <ellie_fi…@hotmail.com> wrote in message ><news:xt%gc.66673$_g4.11685783@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>… >> >>What I have trouble understanding (or maybe relating to) is how does one >> >>feel used, lesser than, or invaded, by their spouse in the context of a >> >>loving relationship?! I can understand people in miserable marriages >> >>feeling that way, and by extension not wanting to have sex at all! But >> >>if one is in a relatively happy and loving relationship I can’t imagine >> >>feeling that way, even if at times sex is only to please the spouse. I >> >>am not talking about obligation, just don’t understand how one can feel >> >>used or invaded by a loving spouse! >> > I think that I understand it.  Let’s just say both partners had a >> > grueling day.  Both worked hard and are exhausted when they get home. >> > However, hubby decides to sit down and read the paper, while the wife >> > prepares dinner and gives the child a bath.  Okay, bed time arrives, >> > hubby, who had time to unwind, enjoy his dinner, wifey is even more >> > exhausted and can think of nothing more than her head hitting the >> > pillow.  Husband is horny, wife isn’t.  She does love him but is >> > simply exhausted.  If she decides to have sex due to not disappointing >> > him, she might feel a bit used.  If she decides that she is too tired, >> > that SHOULD be okay with the husband. >> Oh sure, I understand that scenario. But I would think that in that case >> the wife may feel upset, angry, or maybe even hurt or something! I guess >> to me feeling "used" or "invaded" bring loads that just don’t fit a >> loving relationship! >That is what doesn’t fit your perception of a loving relationship. >People use words and feelings differently.  In this case, I’m telling >you how I feel and I do love my husband.  I guess you would might feel >upset, angry or even hurt.  I would feel used (given the scenario that >I gave).  If you gave me a scenario, we might feel the same or we >might feel differently.

Response:

>> Yes, there is that, too.  My husband is certainly feeling his age in a way >that >> he never thought he would.  He’ll be fifty in August (shut up, >Jennifer!!!) >*snerk*  I’d never throw stones…and he looks great!!  :-D  Hell, I’m >almost 21 myself!

According to the waiter, that’s true!!!  :-) Sheila

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ellie <ellie_fi…@hotmail.com> wrote in message <news:Jkjhc.74772$_g4.15371599@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>… > Caren wrote: > > Ellie <ellie_fi…@hotmail.com> wrote in message <news:xt%gc.66673$_g4.11685783@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>… > >>What I have trouble understanding (or maybe relating to) is how does one > >>feel used, lesser than, or invaded, by their spouse in the context of a > >>loving relationship?! I can understand people in miserable marriages > >>feeling that way, and by extension not wanting to have sex at all! But > >>if one is in a relatively happy and loving relationship I can’t imagine > >>feeling that way, even if at times sex is only to please the spouse. I > >>am not talking about obligation, just don’t understand how one can feel > >>used or invaded by a loving spouse! > > I think that I understand it.  Let’s just say both partners had a > > grueling day.  Both worked hard and are exhausted when they get home. > > However, hubby decides to sit down and read the paper, while the wife > > prepares dinner and gives the child a bath.  Okay, bed time arrives, > > hubby, who had time to unwind, enjoy his dinner, wifey is even more > > exhausted and can think of nothing more than her head hitting the > > pillow.  Husband is horny, wife isn’t.  She does love him but is > > simply exhausted.  If she decides to have sex due to not disappointing > > him, she might feel a bit used.  If she decides that she is too tired, > > that SHOULD be okay with the husband. > Oh sure, I understand that scenario. But I would think that in that case > the wife may feel upset, angry, or maybe even hurt or something! I guess > to me feeling "used" or "invaded" bring loads that just don’t fit a > loving relationship!

That is what doesn’t fit your perception of a loving relationship. People use words and feelings differently.  In this case, I’m telling you how I feel and I do love my husband.  I guess you would might feel upset, angry or even hurt.  I would feel used (given the scenario that I gave).  If you gave me a scenario, we might feel the same or we might feel differently.

Response:

In article <mrCdnXruR751vBvdRVn…@comcast.com>, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text - "Jennifer" <JenPam2…@yahoo.com> wrote: > "Jingle Bells" <jinglebells5…@yahoo.com> wrote in message > > > I’m 39 and I’d really have to be sleep deprived or gone through some > > physical hell before I’d be so tired as to refuse sex with my wife. > > I’ve been tired enough that I wouldn’t initiate, but I don’t know if > > I’ve ever said no, -even if I wasn’t all that interested. > One thing that has been helpful is that DH and I are 6 years apart.  I think > his sex drive *has* decreased a teeny tiny bit, and I can see that mine has > improved (well, not to the pre-med or early years level, but it’s better, I > think).  We joke that eventually there’s be one Magic Night when we’ll reach > the perfect sexual drive equlibrium!! > Jennifer

Unfortunately, in most cases, that ends up being your bowling night.  :)

Response:

"Jingle Bells" <jinglebells5…@yahoo.com> wrote in message > > I’m 39 and I’d really have to be sleep deprived or gone through some > physical hell before I’d be so tired as to refuse sex with my wife. > I’ve been tired enough that I wouldn’t initiate, but I don’t know if > I’ve ever said no, -even if I wasn’t all that interested.

One thing that has been helpful is that DH and I are 6 years apart.  I think his sex drive *has* decreased a teeny tiny bit, and I can see that mine has improved (well, not to the pre-med or early years level, but it’s better, I think).  We joke that eventually there’s be one Magic Night when we’ll reach the perfect sexual drive equlibrium!! Jennifer

Response:

"WhansaMi" <whans…@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20040420180428.19969.00000027@mb-m10.aol.com… > Yes, there is that, too.  My husband is certainly feeling his age in a way that > he never thought he would.  He’ll be fifty in August (shut up,

Jennifer!!!) *snerk*  I’d never throw stones…and he looks great!!  :-D  Hell, I’m almost 21 myself! > I, too, have had periods where I was BONE TIRED.  In fact, back in 1988, I was > diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome.

I never knew that.  I get *extremely* fatigued from time to time.  I think sometimes that it’s a result of the medication I take, but mainly I believe it’s from my irregular schedule.  For months at a time I’ll sleep 6 a.m. to 2 p.m., and then I’ll become less nocturnal, and so on…I don’t feel I have a "natural" circadian rhythm, and it wears on me.  Even when I was in college, I would get so amazingly weary driving there that I’d fall asleep both en route (yes, while driving) and in the class.  I sometimes wonder if I should get myself checked out for narcolepsy. Of course, invariably I can sleep anywhere *but* in my bed at home at night! :-O > I’ve said that being tired has the most impact on my libido, and that is

true ???  It could be higher ???  ROFL!!!!!!!!!  Sorry, Sheila…  But you’ve already got an impressive libido!  ;-)~ Jennifer

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -care…@msn.com (Caren) wrote in message <news:3754f0b3.0404200637.3b70c3e7@posting.google.com>… > Ellie <ellie_fi…@hotmail.com> wrote in message <news:xt%gc.66673$_g4.11685783@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>… > > WhansaMi wrote: > > > There are different types of pleasure one can have.  Jennifer and others have > > > written eloquently about how they feel good even if they aren’t into the sex. > > > I can buy that.  :-) > > > But, I don’t think that a person should feel obligated to have sex with one’s > > > spouse if it, in any way, makes them feel used, or lesser than, or like they > > > are being invaded.   > > What I have trouble understanding (or maybe relating to) is how does one > > feel used, lesser than, or invaded, by their spouse in the context of a > > loving relationship?! I can understand people in miserable marriages > > feeling that way, and by extension not wanting to have sex at all! But > > if one is in a relatively happy and loving relationship I can’t imagine > > feeling that way, even if at times sex is only to please the spouse. I > > am not talking about obligation, just don’t understand how one can feel > > used or invaded by a loving spouse! > I think that I understand it.  Let’s just say both partners had a > grueling day.  Both worked hard and are exhausted when they get home. > However, hubby decides to sit down and read the paper, while the wife > prepares dinner and gives the child a bath.  Okay, bed time arrives, > hubby, who had time to unwind, enjoy his dinner, wifey is even more > exhausted and can think of nothing more than her head hitting the > pillow.  Husband is horny, wife isn’t.  She does love him but is > simply exhausted.  If she decides to have sex due to not disappointing > him, she might feel a bit used.  If she decides that she is too tired, > that SHOULD be okay with the husband.

That would be absolutely OK with me. If I really wanted sex that night, she’d be reading the paper (or taking a nap), and I’d be making dinner, giving the kids a bath and putting them to bed. I know that fatigue and sex don’t mix for my wife. Being chronically too tired is a different issue. The problem may be that the too tired spouse needs more help. Another possibility is that the too tired spouse needs to scale back on some activities so that they won’t be so tired > Maybe some of you in this newsgroup are too young to understand what > too tired feels like?  I don’t know, since hitting 50, I am often so > tired that I surprise myself.  I used to have a boy friend when I was > 30, he was 41.  The 8 years that we were together, I remember > thinking, GOD, why is he so damn tired all of the time?  I now > understand it.  I wanted sex from him all of the time and he said that > I was draining him.  But in a good way.

I’m 39 and I’d really have to be sleep deprived or gone through some physical hell before I’d be so tired as to refuse sex with my wife. I’ve been tired enough that I wouldn’t initiate, but I don’t know if I’ve ever said no, -even if I wasn’t all that interested.

Response:

"Jingle Bells <jinglebells5…@yahoo.com>" wrote about the problem of having sex when you don’t really want to, noting the opinions: >  …  interested or not, sex is something you owe your spouse. >  …  you are doing you and your spouse a disservice if you ever have > sex with them when you’re not really interested.

he goes on to ask "why is it so wrong to view sex as a gift you can give to your spouse, even if you’d rather be doing something else?" I dunno why the views tend toward extremes, especially since you can reasonably hold both views with just a little conditioning.  How about this:     If you aren’t in the mood for sex, but you know of things that put     you in the mood, and you know your partner is interested, then you     should mention some of the things you think might help get you     warmed up. If the uninterested partner is going to spend the whole time looking bored and saying "Can we hurry this up?", that’s probably worse than not having sex at all. If the uninterested partner wants to make a gift to the more interested partner, the gift ought to be in reasonably good condition.  So doing something to increase interest, and thus make the act more appealing to him/her self, and thus mutually satisfying, seems a necessary step to making a proper gift. Darren Provine ! kil…@elvis.rowan.edu ! http://www.rowan.edu/~kilroy "There’s nothing better than good sex.  But bad sex?  A peanut butter  and jelly sandwich is better than bad sex." — Billy Joel

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ellie <ellie_fi…@hotmail.com> wrote in message <news:xt%gc.66673$_g4.11685783@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>… > WhansaMi wrote: > > There are different types of pleasure one can have.  Jennifer and others have > > written eloquently about how they feel good even if they aren’t into the sex. > > I can buy that.  :-) > > But, I don’t think that a person should feel obligated to have sex with one’s > > spouse if it, in any way, makes them feel used, or lesser than, or like they > > are being invaded.   > What I have trouble understanding (or maybe relating to) is how does one > feel used, lesser than, or invaded, by their spouse in the context of a > loving relationship?! I can understand people in miserable marriages > feeling that way, and by extension not wanting to have sex at all! But > if one is in a relatively happy and loving relationship I can’t imagine > feeling that way, even if at times sex is only to please the spouse. I > am not talking about obligation, just don’t understand how one can feel > used or invaded by a loving spouse!

I think that I understand it.  Let’s just say both partners had a grueling day.  Both worked hard and are exhausted when they get home. However, hubby decides to sit down and read the paper, while the wife prepares dinner and gives the child a bath.  Okay, bed time arrives, hubby, who had time to unwind, enjoy his dinner, wifey is even more exhausted and can think of nothing more than her head hitting the pillow.  Husband is horny, wife isn’t.  She does love him but is simply exhausted.  If she decides to have sex due to not disappointing him, she might feel a bit used.  If she decides that she is too tired, that SHOULD be okay with the husband. Maybe some of you in this newsgroup are too young to understand what too tired feels like?  I don’t know, since hitting 50, I am often so tired that I surprise myself.  I used to have a boy friend when I was 30, he was 41.  The 8 years that we were together, I remember thinking, GOD, why is he so damn tired all of the time?  I now understand it.  I wanted sex from him all of the time and he said that I was draining him.  But in a good way.

Response:

>I mentioned in response to one of Tai’s posts that I had never been in a long >term relationship with a lower drive partner

Oops.. that was supposed to be either "where I was the lower drive partner" OR "with a higher drive partner" I goofed on the editing! Sheila

Response:

WhansaMi wrote: >> I mentioned in response to one of Tai’s posts that I had never been >> in a long term relationship with a lower drive partner > Oops.. that was supposed to be either > "where I was the lower drive partner" > OR > "with a higher drive partner" > I goofed on the editing!

lol I read it the way you intended – as in I saw what I expected to see. This is a phenomenon I’ve noticed quite a bit when I’ve read my own posts after mistakingly thinking I’d edited them before posting them. Tai

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->WhansaMi wrote: >> There are different types of pleasure one can have.  Jennifer and others >have >> written eloquently about how they feel good even if they aren’t into the >sex. >> I can buy that.  :-) >> But, I don’t think that a person should feel obligated to have sex with >one’s >> spouse if it, in any way, makes them feel used, or lesser than, or like >they >> are being invaded.   >What I have trouble understanding (or maybe relating to) is how does one >feel used, lesser than, or invaded, by their spouse in the context of a >loving relationship?! I can understand people in miserable marriages >feeling that way, and by extension not wanting to have sex at all! But >if one is in a relatively happy and loving relationship I can’t imagine >feeling that way, even if at times sex is only to please the spouse. I >am not talking about obligation, just don’t understand how one can feel >used or invaded by a loving spouse!

Oh, that I *can* understand, at least in theory.   I, like a significant number of women, was sexually abused as a child.  I was 11, and the perpetrator was my mother’s boyfriend.  It took a long time (and years of therapy) before I was really able to be sexually responsive with a partner.  I always had a high libido, and I was quite promiscuous at one point, but I never orgasmed with a partner until I was 23.  True sexual intimacy (as opposed to my learning to be really "good in bed" via interesting techniques and enthusiasm) made me too vulnerable, I feared.  So, once I was able to trust enough to really connect with a man, it was very important to me to **always** be connected during sex. I mentioned in response to one of Tai’s posts that I had never been in a long term relationship with a lower drive partner, and that I didn’t know how I would respond.  I really don’t.  I’d like to think that I’d do okay, but the reality is that I could well imagine a situation where the old feelings of being distanced from a man who I’m having sex with could surface, if I really, **really** didn’t want to have sex at that point.  I could see going back to those feelings of being diminished. I wouldn’t want that to color my relationship with my partner, or to revisit those old feelings I had about my own sexuality.  It wouldn’t be good for me, and it wouldn’t be good for us. Sheila

Response:

>There are those that are of the opinion that interested or not, sex is >something you owe your spouse. >Then there is the opposite view point that you are doing you and your >spouse a disservice if you ever have sex with them when you’re not >really interested. This is what my wife believed. >One the one hand, sex should be a mutually pleasurable experience, >-not something you just do for your spouse.

Can I clarify here and say I don’t think that you should feel pressured to have sex when it would cause you physical or psychological discomfort?   Because, I’d like to amend my position to that.  :-) There are different types of pleasure one can have.  Jennifer and others have written eloquently about how they feel good even if they aren’t into the sex. I can buy that.  :-) But, I don’t think that a person should feel obligated to have sex with one’s spouse if it, in any way, makes them feel used, or lesser than, or like they are being invaded.   Sheila – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->On the other hand, why is it so wrong to view sex as a gift you can >give to your spouse, even if you’d rather be doing something else? >Why such extreme views?

Response:

"Jingle Bells"  wrote in message

news:f804e152.0404182101.5ed6b555@posting.google.com… > There are those that are of the opinion that interested or not, sex is > something you owe your spouse.

There is no reason really for such extreme views. I think most marriages pendel somewhere between these two views. I

Aricept and Strattera (new to group)

Question:

Hi, my name is Karen and I’m new to post. I take 5mg of Aricept for memory (even though I don’t have Alzheimers) and 80mg of Strattera every day. The combo seems to work better than the Concerta I used to take. I HATED feeling hyped out. I know it doesn’t make everyone jittery, but it sure made me jittery. Does anyone here take the same combo of meds? I’m ADD and have some learning disabilites as well (slow visual motor processing and capd). My problems probably stem from the fact that I was born with the chicken pox. . . I hope to hear back from you. Karen

Response:

Hi, my name is Karen and I’m new to post. I take 5mg of Aricept for memory (even though I don’t have Alzheimers) and 80mg of Strattera every day. The combo seems to work better than the Concerta I used to take. I HATED feeling hyped out. I know it doesn’t make everyone jittery, but it sure made me jittery. Does anyone here take the same combo of meds? I’m ADD and have some learning disabilites as well (slow visual motor processing and capd). My problems probably stem from the fact that I was born with the chicken pox. . . I hope to hear back from you. Karen

Karen, welcome to the group! I personally heard a blurb on some webpage about a trend among some psychiatrists to augment Aricept for kids with executive dysfunction (over-simplified, think of it as the reason why ADDers aren’t models for time management). I pitched it to my psychiatrist about two years ago, who teaches at Harvard and of course keeps up with what his pals are prescribing. He said he never heard of it… and we brushed off the idea. Mentioned it to the doc I replaced him with months later, and he kind of brushed it off too. It may or may not work for me, but I always was a little curious. I’m on Desoxyn and Xyrem for ADD+Narcolepsy and Klonopin for my social anxiety. I’m thinking of adding some Adderall XR (I’ve tried all the stimulants except this one– dexedrine, spansules, adderall IR, etc.) to my Desoxyn and then add Straterra. Maybe then I could add Aricept down the road. Maybe eventually Abilify, an antipsychotic that doesn’t sedate and helped me organize things before going off it for atkshia (this time I could try a pill for that side-effect). Problem, I’m a college student, and it takes months for these trials to happen, and docs like to add one thing at a time. Perhaps I should take the semester off, this past one was so terrible with my narcolepsy I had to write a letter to my Dean asking for an appeal to keep me in college. Sigh. At least I’d still be with my buddies as roommates in the fall if I do take this semester off. It would give me time to work off some debt of mine, deal with med trials without worrying about it affecting my GPA, reduce my stress, and boost my GPA without resorting to being a 5th year student (which would embarass me, plus lose housing rights). So what I take now: -Desoxyn, 10mg x 3 doses ADD + Narcolepsy -Xyrem, 9g/night Narcolepsy -Klonopin, 1mg 3x/day Soc. Anx. Dis. -Ambien, 10mg bid (I’ve always had insomnia, way before any med, and most narcoleptics have to take a sleeping aide) -Bipap at night (for borderline sleep apnea, just to perfect my sleep as much as possible, even though it’s lower than most people’s apnea index, and it hasn’t reduced my sleepiness at all) What I’d like to see on deck, added: -Straterra, 80mg-100mg/day -ADD, Soc. Anx. -Adderall, 30mg XR -ADD+Narcolepsy -Aricept, ADD

Response:

Dr. question "Provigil"

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tono, my brother’s and my doc gave us both provigil for depression about a year ago. <snip Philip: *Narcolepsy*. Yeah, now is there a med for memory loss? (That was a joke, but I’ll probably find out there are!)  I was trying very hard to build the word out of the "somn" fragment, and was getting nowhere. <snip Prescribing Provigil for depression is nonsensical. For depression one prescribed an antidepressant. Philip Philip, I may post more on my experiences with stimulants, I’ve been wanting to for quite a while.  But, in response to your statement here, I don’t care for it.  You’ve been very kind to me, but I still feel a need to say that, I’ve told my doc and therapist several times that one of the main good points of this group is that folks don’t often tell others to go against their docs’ advice, or put down our docs, etc… I have in the past found this to be a frequent problem in other groups I’ve tried.

You have a point here. We are lay people but between us we do share an awful lot of experience. As you have seen there will be different opinions. My opinion was partly refuted by Margrove who is a professional (and what professional!) and OTOH Chip quoted a medical book that said more or less the same thing. The sense of this all is that we get a possibility for consulting our docs with relevant questions. And I’m sorry to say that too many doctors don’t know how to handle anxiety disorders. As I understand it yours isn’t a bad one but we get confronted dozens of times by doctors who are benzophobic, start tier patients out on too high a dose of an AD, are fond of prescribing Buspar or mood stabilizers as monotherapy or add an antipsychotic just for the fun of it. By living with anxiety disorders and sharing information we have found these and other parts of treatment to be lacking (as a rule) and sometimes we do have to educate our docs so that there can be a discussion and you get options, the doc can explain his ideas and in the end you work *together* rather than have the patient dropping on for 5 minutes and prescribe Paxil and goodbye see you in three months. I guess I am protective of my doc.  I’m sure there is a psychological reason for that with a name.

It’s a good thing that you trust your doc. It’s impossible to work with a doc you don’t trust. Here we only give feedback as well as we can and we may be wrong from time to time. It’s just some feedback to use or not use as you see fit.   Mainly, I depend on him heavily to help me deal with life.  That’s not a small thing, by any means.  And he has now been my doc for around ten years.

I fully understand. But sometimes a suggestion may help both the patient and the doctor to think about it again or it won’t, as the case may be. To shorten things, with all respect, I don’t think it is appropriate to tell someone over the internet that his doc (in this case a psychopharmacologist with MD and PhD) that the doc’s treatments of him are "nonsensical".

In this case maybe not and I apologize for that. But if a doctor won’t prescribe a benzo, for instance, I will definitely say that it’s nonsensical every time, no matter how many letters he has behind his name. And of course, I AM on an AD, and was at that time. bob (working very hard here to be *assertive* without being *offensive*)

I am sorry that I offended *you*, I didn’t mean to and as it seems I was also mistaken so I stand corrected. (And I am not easily offended so don’t worry about that). Philip — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Tono, my brother’s and my doc gave us both provigil for depression about a year ago.

<snip Philip: *Narcolepsy*.

Yeah, now is there a med for memory loss? (That was a joke, but I’ll probably find out there are!)  I was trying very hard to build the word out of the "somn" fragment, and was getting nowhere. <snip Prescribing Provigil for depression is nonsensical. For depression one prescribed an antidepressant. Philip

Philip, I may post more on my experiences with stimulants, I’ve been wanting to for quite a while.  But, in response to your statement here, I don’t care for it.  You’ve been very kind to me, but I still feel a need to say that, I’ve told my doc and therapist several times that one of the main good points of this group is that folks don’t often tell others to go against their docs’ advice, or put down our docs, etc… I have in the past found this to be a frequent problem in other groups I’ve tried. I guess I am protective of my doc.  I’m sure there is a psychological reason for that with a name.  Mainly, I depend on him heavily to help me deal with life.  That’s not a small thing, by any means.  And he has now been my doc for around ten years. To shorten things, with all respect, I don’t think it is appropriate to tell someone over the internet that his doc (in this case a psychopharmacologist with MD and PhD) that the doc’s treatments of him are "nonsensical". And of course, I AM on an AD, and was at that time. bob (working very hard here to be *assertive* without being *offensive*) — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

<big snip Thanks Philip, I hope I didn’t come across too harshly.  I tend to go up and down in mood (and sideways and zigzag) I just have to stand up for my doc, he’s been so kind and helpful.  Thanks. bob — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tono, my brother’s and my doc gave us both provigil for depression about a year ago.  You may have looked it up, but I think the "standard" usage is for (proving my senility here again) whatever the word is for the illness that makes some people (and animals) just suddenly fall asleep sometimes. (Hence the "pro"+"vigil".) *Narcolepsy*. My brother really thought it helped his depression a lot.  I don’t remember what if any effect it had on me.  After a while, he decided it didn’t help him any longer. Prescribing Provigil for depression is nonsensical. For depression one prescribed an antidepressant. Provigil is a stimulant, and stimulants are often prescribed for elderly depressed patients to get them going.

Bob isn’t *elderly* and I can hardly imagine Provigil used as monotherapy. As an aside, I was placed on Cylert (another stimulant) several years ago to augment my Zoloft

That’s a different thing, taking it as an adjunct med. Philip (old and grumpy, it’s been grey, rainy weather here for some time and it’s not going to change any time soon) — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

d. Philip (old and grumpy, it’s been grey, rainy weather here for some time and it’s not going to change any time soon)

Mabe a little Provigil to supplement your AD? LOL M — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My shrink gave me some samples of Provigil (modafinil) to combat my fatiuge and to possibly help my ADD.  I took 1/2 of a 200mg tablet this morning and didn’t feel anything different all day.  Actually I did practicly nothing all day and hadn’t even eaten anything else since breakfast.  Then 9 hours later I ate a snack (apple with peanut butter) and in no time it felt like this stuff kicked in fairly strong!  A little tightness in my chest, a little shaky, pretty much like I just drank too much coffee.  What the hell happened?  Why the delay?  It’s supposed to be fairly fast acting.  Now it’s time to go to sleep and I feel like I just woke up, but with a headache. I also sometimes get a sudden onset of itching, usually on my scalp, that is very bad, then just goes away.  It’s nothing like a plain old itchy scalp, this is very sudden and extreem.  I’ve read it’s a symptom sometimes linked to diabetes, and believe this to be the case since I’ve noticed it with different eating habbits and physical activity.  Anyway, when the Provigil seemed to kick in, I also had a sudden onset of that itchy syndrome but not just my scalp.  It will suddenly move from one part of my body to another.  It seems like it’s going away now, and there is/was no sign of a rash. Tono

ask your doc about strattera  it works much better. I have seen delayed onset with many meds-each persons own biology sort of dictates how they digest and metabolize a drug. The itchy skin concerns me-it may very well be an allergy. It could also be just the outcome of some skin receptors being hit and activating a mild overstimulation response. Either way, do call your doc and tell him of your response. Ask him about strattera. stay away from ritalin with your other issues, it may just make them worse. LM — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Prescribing Provigil for depression is nonsensical. For depression one prescribed an antidepressant. Provigil is a stimulant, and stimulants are often prescribed for elderly depressed patients to get them going. Bob isn’t *elderly* and I can hardly imagine Provigil used as monotherapy.

Here’s what my psychiatry text has to say about stimulants (of which Provigil is one): "Stimulants may be used for treatment-resistant depressive disorders, usually to augment standard antidepressant drug therapy". "Possible indications for use of stimulants as *monotherapy* include depression in the elderly, who are at increased risk for adverse effects from standard antidepressant drugs; depression in medically ill persons, especially persons with AIDS; and clinical situations in which a rapid response is important but ECT is contra-indicated. Depressed patients with abulia (i.e. loss of willpower) and anergia (i.e. lack of energy and movement) may also benefit." "Some clinicians report that long term treatment with stimulants can benefit some persons." published by Lippincott Williams & Wilkins Chip — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

My shrink gave me some samples of Provigil (modafinil) to combat my fatiuge and to possibly help my ADD.  I took 1/2 of a 200mg tablet this morning and didn’t feel anything different all day.  Actually I did practicly nothing all day and hadn’t even eaten anything else since breakfast.  Then 9 hours later I ate a snack (apple with peanut butter) and in no time it felt like this stuff kicked in fairly strong!  A little tightness in my chest, a little shaky, pretty much like I just drank too much coffee.  What the hell happened?  Why the delay?  It’s supposed to be fairly fast acting.  Now it’s time to go to sleep and I feel like I just woke up, but with a headache. I also sometimes get a sudden onset of itching, usually on my scalp, that is very bad, then just goes away.  It’s nothing like a plain old itchy scalp, this is very sudden and extreem.  I’ve read it’s a symptom sometimes linked to diabetes, and believe this to be the case since I’ve noticed it with different eating habbits and physical activity.  Anyway, when the Provigil seemed to kick in, I also had a sudden onset of that itchy syndrome but not just my scalp.  It will suddenly move from one part of my body to another.  It seems like it’s going away now, and there is/was no sign of a rash. Tono — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Tono, my brother’s and my doc gave us both provigil for depression about a year ago.  You may have looked it up, but I think the "standard" usage is for (proving my senility here again) whatever the word is for the illness that makes some people (and animals) just suddenly fall asleep sometimes. (Hence the "pro"+"vigil".) My brother really thought it helped his depression a lot.  I don’t remember what if any effect it had on me.  After a while, he decided it didn’t help him any longer. I can’t explain the possible reactions you had.  I hope you won’t have to deal with diabetes, that’s a disease that frightens me because I am so UNself-disciplined. good luck to you, bob

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My shrink gave me some samples of Provigil (modafinil) to combat my fatiuge and to possibly help my ADD.  I took 1/2 of a 200mg tablet this morning and didn’t feel anything different all day.  Actually I did practicly nothing all day and hadn’t even eaten anything else since breakfast.  Then 9 hours later I ate a snack (apple with peanut butter) and in no time it felt like this stuff kicked in fairly strong!  A little tightness in my chest, a little shaky, pretty much like I just drank too much coffee.  What the hell happened?  Why the delay?  It’s supposed to be fairly fast acting.  Now it’s time to go to sleep and I feel like I just woke up, but with a headache. I also sometimes get a sudden onset of itching, usually on my scalp, that is very bad, then just goes away.  It’s nothing like a plain old itchy scalp, this is very sudden and extreem.  I’ve read it’s a symptom sometimes linked to diabetes, and believe this to be the case since I’ve noticed it with different eating habbits and physical activity.  Anyway, when the Provigil seemed to kick in, I also had a sudden onset of that itchy syndrome but not just my scalp.  It will suddenly move from one part of my body to another.  It seems like it’s going away now, and there is/was no sign of a rash. Tono

– The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Tono, I know nothing about the med but they do all respond differently to people. When I first went on Paxil I had that itchiness.  Drove me nuts but it finally went away. smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My shrink gave me some samples of Provigil (modafinil) to combat my fatiuge and to possibly help my ADD.  I took 1/2 of a 200mg tablet this morning and didn’t feel anything different all day.  Actually I did practicly nothing all day and hadn’t even eaten anything else since breakfast.  Then 9 hours later I ate a snack (apple with peanut butter) and in no time it felt like this stuff kicked in fairly strong!  A little tightness in my chest, a little shaky, pretty much like I just drank too much coffee.  What the hell happened?  Why the delay?  It’s supposed to be fairly fast acting.  Now it’s time to go to sleep and I feel like I just woke up, but with a headache. I also sometimes get a sudden onset of itching, usually on my scalp, that is very bad, then just goes away.  It’s nothing like a plain old itchy scalp, this is very sudden and extreem.  I’ve read it’s a symptom sometimes linked to diabetes, and believe this to be the case since I’ve noticed it with different eating habbits and physical activity.  Anyway, when the Provigil seemed to kick in, I also had a sudden onset of that itchy syndrome but not just my scalp.  It will suddenly move from one part of my body to another.  It seems like it’s going away now, and there is/was no sign of a rash. Tono — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Tono, my brother’s and my doc gave us both provigil for depression about a year ago.  You may have looked it up, but I think the "standard" usage is for (proving my senility here again) whatever the word is for the illness that makes some people (and animals) just suddenly fall asleep sometimes. (Hence the "pro"+"vigil".)

*Narcolepsy*. My brother really thought it helped his depression a lot.  I don’t remember what if any effect it had on me.  After a while, he decided it didn’t help him any longer.

Prescribing Provigil for depression is nonsensical. For depression one prescribed an antidepressant. Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My shrink gave me some samples of Provigil (modafinil) to combat my fatiuge and to possibly help my ADD.  I took 1/2 of a 200mg tablet this morning and didn’t feel anything different all day.  Actually I did practicly nothing all day and hadn’t even eaten anything else since breakfast.  Then 9 hours later I ate a snack (apple with peanut butter) and in no time it felt like this stuff kicked in fairly strong!  A little tightness in my chest, a little shaky, pretty much like I just drank too much coffee.  What the hell happened?  Why the delay?  It’s supposed to be fairly fast acting.  Now it’s time to go to sleep and I feel like I just woke up, but with a headache. I also sometimes get a sudden onset of itching, usually on my scalp, that is very bad, then just goes away.  It’s nothing like a plain old itchy scalp, this is very sudden and extreem.  I’ve read it’s a symptom sometimes linked to diabetes, and believe this to be the case since I’ve noticed it with different eating habbits and physical activity.  Anyway, when the Provigil seemed to kick in, I also had a sudden onset of that itchy syndrome but not just my scalp.  It will suddenly move from one part of my body to another.  It seems like it’s going away now, and there is/was no sign of a rash. Tono — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tono, my brother’s and my doc gave us both provigil for depression about a year ago.  You may have looked it up, but I think the "standard" usage is for (proving my senility here again) whatever the word is for the illness that makes some people (and animals) just suddenly fall asleep sometimes. (Hence the "pro"+"vigil".) *Narcolepsy*. My brother really thought it helped his depression a lot.  I don’t remember what if any effect it had on me.  After a while, he decided it didn’t help him any longer. Prescribing Provigil for depression is nonsensical. For depression one prescribed an antidepressant.

Provigil is a stimulant, and stimulants are often prescribed for elderly depressed patients to get them going. As an aside, I was placed on Cylert (another stimulant) several years ago to augment my Zoloft and it lifted me out of a severe depression within two days. It’s a very strange feeling to go from very depressed to ZERO depression in two days. Almost unbelievable. If stimulants are going to work for depression, one generally feels the results in about two days. Chip — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

My shrink gave me some samples of Provigil (modafinil) to combat my fatiuge and to possibly help my ADD.  I took 1/2 of a 200mg tablet this morning and didn’t feel anything different all day.  Actually I did practicly nothing all day and hadn’t even eaten anything else since breakfast.  Then 9 hours later I ate a snack (apple with peanut butter) and in no time it felt like this stuff kicked in fairly strong!  A little tightness in my chest, a little shaky, pretty much like I just drank too much coffee.  What the hell happened?  Why the delay?

Provigil is rapidly absorbed from the GI tract and reaches peak plasma concentrations in 2 to 4 hours after taken. Food may delay it’s rate of absorption. Chip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s supposed to be fairly fast acting.  Now it’s time to go to sleep and I feel like I just woke up, but with a headache. I also sometimes get a sudden onset of itching, usually on my scalp, that is very bad, then just goes away.  It’s nothing like a plain old itchy scalp, this is very sudden and extreem.  I’ve read it’s a symptom sometimes linked to diabetes, and believe this to be the case since I’ve noticed it with different eating habbits and physical activity.  Anyway, when the Provigil seemed to kick in, I also had a sudden onset of that itchy syndrome but not just my scalp.  It will suddenly move from one part of my body to another.  It seems like it’s going away now, and there is/was no sign of a rash. Tono — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Pax with Sleep Apnea.

Question:

Really, what prevents him from simply being awake during the flight if there’s this particular issue? many sleep apnea patients are sleep deprived, from the apnea waking them up, and often have trouble staying awake.

http://www.sleepsmart.com/sleepinfo/sleep/snoring.htm "A large percentage of the population snores at least occasionally. According to one study, 41 percent of the men and 28 percent of the women snore all or part of the time. Snoring tends to get worse with age; for people over 60 years old, 60 percent of the men and 40 percent of the women snore" At least he knows he may have a problem.  What’s the big deal? Doug

Response:

Really, what prevents him from simply being awake during the flight if there’s this particular issue?

many sleep apnea patients are sleep deprived, from the apnea waking them up, and often have trouble staying awake.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My next door neighbor is planning a trip to the USA. His biggest problem is trying to sleep most of the 14 hr flight while his snoring does’nt keep nearby pax awake. Do some airlines have power outlets that his 240 volt machine could plug into.??? This is a medical issue. Your friend should contact the airline in question BEFORE he books his airline tickets to discuss his situation. What is a medical issue? Sleep apnea is a problem where the airway gets obstructed during periods of sleep. This is not mearly an issue of loud snoring, it can obstruct breathing and if the obstruction happens long enough, death or serious injury can result.

Yes, I have sleep apnea and a CPAP machine, but why in the world should anyone who has it contact an airline before booking? It isn’t a medical issue that he might want to contact the airline about, it is the power supply issue — which has a medical reason. There’s a difference.   I’m not about to contact an airline about my sleep apnea before booking. Sleep apnea, by the way, is quite common, but usually undiagnosed. Doug

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My next door neighbor is planning a trip to the USA. His biggest problem is trying to sleep most of the 14 hr flight while his snoring does’nt keep nearby pax awake. Do some airlines have power outlets that his 240 volt machine could plug into.??? This is a medical issue. Your friend should contact the airline in question BEFORE he books his airline tickets to discuss his situation. What is a medical issue?

Sleep apnea is a problem where the airway gets obstructed during periods of sleep. This is not mearly an issue of loud snoring, it can obstruct breathing and if the obstruction happens long enough, death or serious injury can result.

Response:

This is a medical issue. Your friend should contact the airline in question BEFORE he books his airline tickets to discuss his situation. What is a medical issue?

sleep apnea.  read the ENTIRE thread!  sheesh.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My next door neighbor is planning a trip to the USA. His biggest problem is trying to sleep most of the 14 hr flight while his snoring does’nt keep nearby pax awake. Do some airlines have power outlets that his 240 volt machine could plug into.??? If you are flying enconomy, the best solution is probably not going to sleep!   On a 14 hr flight from SYD to LAX. Not always that easy.

Why?  That’s well within a normal adult waking timespan.  Unless he also has narcolepsy.  He should plan his time before the flight for sleep best he can, and bring sufficient amusement for himself during the flight.  This is obviously the solution.  Really, what prevents him from simply being awake during the flight if there’s this particular issue? Banty

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My next door neighbor is planning a trip to the USA. His biggest problem is trying to sleep most of the 14 hr flight while his snoring does’nt keep nearby pax awake. Do some airlines have power outlets that his 240 volt machine could plug into.??? Singapore airlines in their BC (Raffles Class) Spacebeds have 110V outlets. Other airlines have Empower sockets or sometimes 12V cigarette lighter outlets, mostly in premium cabins although occasionally in economy (eg, AA). You can convert these Empower or cigarette lighter outlets to 240V with an inverter, but you need to make sure that the device does not take too much power. Alternatively, if he can fall asleep in the WC, how about using the shaver outlet?

   Feasible but not practical, when others may need to use the WC. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Regards, Howard

Response:

Your neighboor might consider buying about 20 pairs of foam ear plugs to distribute amongst his nearby fellow passengers.

   Thats if they agree to wear them. Some airlines offer them too, but it’d be a courtesy that people will appreciate and be more inclined to be understanding about the snoring.

   It may be less onerous than a child that persistantly cries throughout the flight.

Response:

My next door neighbor is planning a trip to the USA. His biggest problem is trying to sleep most of the 14 hr flight while his snoring does’nt keep nearby pax awake. Do some airlines have power outlets that his 240 volt machine could plug into.??? If you are flying enconomy, the best solution is probably not going to sleep!

   On a 14 hr flight from SYD to LAX. Not always that easy.

Response:

My next door neighbor is planning a trip to the USA. His biggest problem is trying to sleep most of the 14 hr flight while his snoring does’nt keep nearby pax awake. Do some airlines have power outlets that his 240 volt machine could plug into.??? This is a medical issue. Your friend should contact the airline in question BEFORE he books his airline tickets to discuss his situation.

What is a medical issue? Doug

Response:

Thanks for the link!!  I need a new machine… something lighter! J

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Or, perhaps renting a CPAP for the journey which runs on 12vDC, and bringing a battery?  This fellow seems to know what he’s talking about: http://www.cpapman.com My next door neighbor is planning a trip to the USA. His biggest problem is trying to sleep most of the 14 hr flight while his snoring does’nt keep nearby pax awake. Do some airlines have power outlets that his 240 volt machine could plug into.??? Singapore airlines in their BC (Raffles Class) Spacebeds have 110V outlets. Other airlines have Empower sockets or sometimes 12V cigarette lighter outlets, mostly in premium cabins although occasionally in economy (eg, AA). You can convert these Empower or cigarette lighter outlets to 240V with an inverter, but you need to make sure that the device does not take too much power. Alternatively, if he can fall asleep in the WC, how about using the shaver outlet? Regards, Howard — Nobody but a fool goes into a federal counterrorism operation without duct

tape – Richard Preston, THE COBRA EVENT.

Response:

Your neighboor

I’d not be interested in any type of "boor".

Response:

My next door neighbor is planning a trip to the USA. His biggest problem is trying to sleep most of the 14 hr flight while his snoring does’nt keep nearby pax awake. Do some airlines have power outlets that his 240 volt machine could plug into.???

If you are flying enconomy, the best solution is probably not going to sleep!

Response:

My next door neighbor is planning a trip to the USA. His biggest problem is trying to sleep most of the 14 hr flight while his snoring does’nt keep nearby pax awake. Do some airlines have power outlets that his 240 volt machine could plug into.???

This is a medical issue. Your friend should contact the airline in question BEFORE he books his airline tickets to discuss his situation.

Response:

Your neighboor might consider buying about 20 pairs of foam ear plugs to distribute amongst his nearby fellow passengers.  Some airlines offer them too, but it’d be a courtesy that people will appreciate and be more inclined to be understanding about the snoring.

Response:

Or, perhaps renting a CPAP for the journey which runs on 12vDC, and bringing a battery?  This fellow seems to know what he’s talking about: http://www.cpapman.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My next door neighbor is planning a trip to the USA. His biggest problem is trying to sleep most of the 14 hr flight while his snoring does’nt keep nearby pax awake. Do some airlines have power outlets that his 240 volt machine could plug into.??? Singapore airlines in their BC (Raffles Class) Spacebeds have 110V outlets. Other airlines have Empower sockets or sometimes 12V cigarette lighter outlets, mostly in premium cabins although occasionally in economy (eg, AA). You can convert these Empower or cigarette lighter outlets to 240V with an inverter, but you need to make sure that the device does not take too much power. Alternatively, if he can fall asleep in the WC, how about using the shaver outlet? Regards, Howard

– Nobody but a fool goes into a federal counterrorism operation without duct tape – Richard Preston, THE COBRA EVENT.

Response:

My next door neighbor is planning a trip to the USA. His biggest problem is trying to sleep most of the 14 hr flight while his snoring does’nt keep nearby pax awake. Do some airlines have power outlets that his 240 volt machine could plug into.???

Response:

My next door neighbor is planning a trip to the USA. His biggest problem is trying to sleep most of the 14 hr flight while his snoring does’nt keep nearby pax awake. Do some airlines have power outlets that his 240 volt machine could plug into.???

Singapore airlines in their BC (Raffles Class) Spacebeds have 110V outlets. Other airlines have Empower sockets or sometimes 12V cigarette lighter outlets, mostly in premium cabins although occasionally in economy (eg, AA). You can convert these Empower or cigarette lighter outlets to 240V with an inverter, but you need to make sure that the device does not take too much power. Alternatively, if he can fall asleep in the WC, how about using the shaver outlet? Regards, Howard

Response:

Benzos & Sex

Question:

This looks like a good thread to jump in on…at least the sex part of it… I am now taking Paxil CR (60 mg) and Klonopin (3 mg) daily.  I am about to switch the Paxil to Lexapro due to my depression and the deep dark hole that I am in…  <sigh.

Hi Chuck, I know that deep dark hole. Lexapro helped me claw my way back out. Take care, love Meryl

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In my experience, Benzos don’t affect sexual libido or orgasm.   SSRIs however, do. Well I can verify that I am experiencing no negative sexual side effects from my Xanax and Lexapro combination. LOL YMMV love Meryl We expect a full, detailed report after the weekend P. Why after the weekend? I have a couple more weeks to go love Meryl

LOL! Make it a book then. Don’t forget the pics P.

Response:

Thanks, Meryl. Happy New Year. Mr. A – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, My situation re starting Lexapro was different. I had been taking Effexor XR for years but started having adverse side effects and needed a switch. Lexapro helped me from the first dose but I am sure that was related to the fact that I had been taking a SNRI for many years. I would say it took about 6 – 8 weeks before I felt that *I* was really back, ie without the depression. My dose is 10 mg and several months down the track I am pleased with the results of switching to Lexapro. I hope it works for you. love Meryl Meryl, how do you like the Lexapro?  It’s my first depression med and I’ve been on it about 2 weeks at 10 mg.  When did it kick in for you? Thanks, Mr. A In my experience, Benzos don’t affect sexual libido or orgasm.   SSRIs however, do. Well I can verify that I am experiencing no negative sexual side effects from my Xanax and Lexapro combination. LOL YMMV love Meryl

Response:

Philip, Yes, you old dawg you, it’s me, a blast from the past.  Some how I new I’d see you here, and a very happy too, indeed. So, how are things on your side of the pond (Netherlands, right?) This looks like a good thread to jump in on…at least the sex part of it.. Hey *C*H*U*C*K*! Is that *you*? I am now taking Paxil CR (60 mg) and Klonopin (3 mg) daily.  I am about to switch the Paxil to Lexapro due to my depression and the deep dark hole that I am in…  <sigh. Sorry to hear that.

<big snip — Chuck

Response:

Elliott, Fuck you too, you old fart you!  <G that: This looks like a good thread to jump in on…at least the sex part of it… Fuck you

(See response above) I am now taking Paxil CR (60 mg) and Klonopin (3 mg) daily.  I am about to switch the Paxil to Lexapro due to my depression and the deep dark hole that I am in…  <sigh. Anyways…anyone else think that Lexapro is a good med.   <snipped Hi Chuck! I take Lexapro’s older brother, Celexa, and while I had a lack of libido to begin with, I waited it out (I felt I had to – the other SSRI meds hadn’t worked out) and my sex drive came back like a GTO  That pissed my wife off, but that’s another story <g

Yes, Celexa is a less refined version of Lexapro—sorry, that’s what my research shows. I won’t ask, BTW – so you can say something or say nothing about health and marriage. K?

Marriage and wife is doing well.  Believe it or not, she is still alive and well.  Her doctors don’t believe it, the New England Journal of Medicine doesn’t believe it, but she is alive.  She still has the blood disorder, and still haves really bad times, but she is alive, and with that, there is hope.  I’ve learned to accept it; life, live it; I’m not in control of what happens to others of myself.  I just do the foot work and hope and pray for the best.  That, I believe is all any of us can do. Lexapro is supposed to have a lower s/fx profile, but I dunno. YMMV, do dah do dah.

My pdoc almost laughed out loud when I read him the WebMD research that stated that Lexapro has NO SIDE EFFECTS AT ALL.  I laughed with him, of course.  I’m not sure there is a med without side effects. The thing is tho that Paxil may be the worst in that department, so it’s certainly worth a try to switch – seeing as the SSRIs are cross toleranat so you shouldn’t have any big ’stop one – start another’ med thingie. I take it strickly for panic (never any depression) but that track record seems to be there – so if Paxil isn’t doing the job, there’s nothing to lose?

My Paxil is taken strictly for panic as well.  But it really should help with depression too.  Seeing as it’s not, I’m trying something new.  I will keep you posted on the my depression as well as whether Sparky is in better using oder…<G I finally spoke up; I was very weary of some of the comments that I got, but a lovely lady in Canada spoke up to defend me (from a troll that was saying really dumb ass things to me, like take a walk, that’s all you need). She jumped on this troll and saved me!  I am forever in her debt. <snip I’ll forward this to her – I’m sure she’ll be lifted by your comments, Chuck.

Say hi to all on the mailing list, E.  And I want you to never forget that you too are never alone… Elliott

— Chuck

Response:

Hi Vanessa, Thanks so much for the reply.  I’m not too keen on depression either. As far as I know, this is the first time I’ve suffered from it.  It seems to go hand-in-hand with 2 years of unemployment. I may need to snap my self out of this.  Hopefully the Lexapro with do the trick.  I do plan to keep you all informed.   Thanks for listening. Just a quick hello Chuck. Great to read your journey and how this NG helped you in the past. Can’t offer any advice re Lexapro but wish you well  I don’t suffer any depression but there are many posters here that do so will be better able to support you. Vanessa This looks like a good thread to jump in on…at least the sex part of

<big snip — Chuck

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In my experience, Benzos don’t affect sexual libido or orgasm.   SSRIs however, do. Well I can verify that I am experiencing no negative sexual side effects from my Xanax and Lexapro combination. LOL YMMV love Meryl We expect a full, detailed report after the weekend P.

Why after the weekend? I have a couple more weeks to go love Meryl

Response:

Hi, My situation re starting Lexapro was different. I had been taking Effexor XR for years but started having adverse side effects and needed a switch. Lexapro helped me from the first dose but I am sure that was related to the fact that I had been taking a SNRI for many years. I would say it took about 6 – 8 weeks before I felt that *I* was really back, ie without the depression. My dose is 10 mg and several months down the track I am pleased with the results of switching to Lexapro. I hope it works for you. love Meryl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Meryl, how do you like the Lexapro?  It’s my first depression med and I’ve been on it about 2 weeks at 10 mg.  When did it kick in for you? Thanks, Mr. A In my experience, Benzos don’t affect sexual libido or orgasm.   SSRIs however, do. Well I can verify that I am experiencing no negative sexual side effects from my Xanax and Lexapro combination. LOL YMMV love Meryl

Response:

In my experience, Benzos don’t affect sexual libido or orgasm.   SSRIs however, do. Well I can verify that I am experiencing no negative sexual side effects from my Xanax and Lexapro combination. LOL YMMV love Meryl

We expect a full, detailed report after the weekend P.

Response:

This looks like a good thread to jump in on…at least the sex part of it..

Hey *C*H*U*C*K*! Is that *you*? I am now taking Paxil CR (60 mg) and Klonopin (3 mg) daily.  I am about to switch the Paxil to Lexapro due to my depression and the deep dark hole that I am in…  <sigh.

Sorry to hear that. Anyways…anyone else think that Lexapro is a good med.  I mean, vs. Paxil. In terms of side effects, I mean…duh.  It’s like almost two in the morning and here I am: not sleeping, not eating right, and not working anymore. Could it get any funner?  <g

Well, it sounds like a med switch is indeed in order. As you know our reactions to meds are so individual as to be unpredictable. As a rule, however, Lexapro (allegedly an improved version of Celexa with the same active ingredient, citalopram) is supposed to be the SSRI with the fewest side effects. I have met a number of people who switched from Paxil to Lexapro and benefited a lot from it.   snippety snip  I finally spoke up; I was very weary of some of the comments that I got, but a lovely lady in Canada spoke up to defend me (from a troll that was saying really dumb ass things to me, like take a walk, that’s all you need). She jumped on this troll and saved me!  I am forever in her debt.

I *think* I know whom you mean… great person! I have been rambling on for a while now, sorry.

No problem. I skillfully snipped it (But read it all).    I just wanted to get a little feed back.

I think the med switch sounds like a plan.    Happy New Year! And to you! — Chuck

No, that’s *Philip* – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In my experience, Benzos don’t affect sexual libido or orgasm. SSRIs however, do. Well I can verify that I am experiencing no negative sexual side effects from my Xanax and Lexapro combination. LOL YMMV love Meryl

Response:

For four weeks I’ve been taking Xanax daily — most days I take 5 mg. I have noticed one problem with this otherwise wonderful medication: decreased sex drive. I’m pretty sure this is due to the Xanax. I never expected this, since in all the years I’ve been reading anxiety forums I have never once heard anyone ever complain of sexual side effects from benzos. I’ve also never experienced any such side effects from other benzos. I was reading the label for Xanax XR (I take generic alprazolam, but it should have the same side effects as the XR version) and I noticed that according to their clinical trial results Xanax XR does have sexual side effects for some patients. In their trials, 6% of Xanax XR patients experienced Libido Decreased vs only 2.3% of those on placebo. Also, 2.4% of Xanax XR patients experienced Sexual Dysfunction vs a rate of 1.1% for those on placebo. I don’t know if these numbers are truly accurate or not, since I’ve participated in a clinical trial before and I know they avoid reports of sexual problems by simply never asking you about sexual function. I was just wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience with Xanax or any other benzo. I’ve read that both Valium & Ativan can have the same side effects (though I didn’t experience them). I’ve read that Klonopin can cause increased libido — now that’s a side effect I wouldn’t mind, but I never experienced it while I was on Klonopin. If my sex drive doesn’t improve I’ll have to switch to another benzo. Klonopin is a possibility, but I’d have to say that Xanax is a more effective drug.

Response:

Xanax has a shorter half life than klonapin. 5 Mg a day seems like a huge dose, is your doc planning on keeping you on that high of a dose? I take klonopin. My pdoc says it’s the most potent benzo there is. Don’t know if he’s telling me the truth or not. Very easy to get hooked on the stuff though. And withdrawal is pure hell. — There is a theory that states: "If anyone finds out what the universe is for it will disappear and be replaced by something more bazaarly inexplicable." There is another theory that states: "This has already happened…."

: For four weeks I’ve been taking Xanax daily — most days I take 5 mg. : : I have noticed one problem with this otherwise wonderful medication: : decreased sex drive. I’m pretty sure this is due to the Xanax. I never : expected this, since in all the years I’ve been reading anxiety forums : I have never once heard anyone ever complain of sexual side effects : from benzos. I’ve also never experienced any such side effects from : other benzos. : : I was reading the label for Xanax XR (I take generic alprazolam, but : it should have the same side effects as the XR version) and I noticed : that according to their clinical trial results Xanax XR does have : sexual side effects for some patients. In their trials, 6% of Xanax XR : patients experienced Libido Decreased vs only 2.3% of those on : placebo. Also, 2.4% of Xanax XR patients experienced Sexual : Dysfunction vs a rate of 1.1% for those on placebo. I don’t know if : these numbers are truly accurate or not, since I’ve participated in a : clinical trial before and I know they avoid reports of sexual problems : by simply never asking you about sexual function. : : I was just wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience with : Xanax or any other benzo. I’ve read that both Valium & Ativan can have : the same side effects (though I didn’t experience them). I’ve read : that Klonopin can cause increased libido — now that’s a side effect I : wouldn’t mind, but I never experienced it while I was on Klonopin. : : If my sex drive doesn’t improve I’ll have to switch to another benzo. : Klonopin is a possibility, but I’d have to say that Xanax is a more : effective drug. — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Just a quick hello Chuck. Great to read your journey and how this NG helped you in the past. Can’t offer any advice re Lexapro but wish you well  I don’t suffer any depression but there are many posters here that do so will be better able to support you. Vanessa

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This looks like a good thread to jump in on…at least the sex part of it… I am now taking Paxil CR (60 mg) and Klonopin (3 mg) daily.  I am about to switch the Paxil to Lexapro due to my depression and the deep dark hole that I am in…  <sigh. Anyways…anyone else think that Lexapro is a good med.  I mean, vs. Paxil. In terms of side effects, I mean…duh.  It’s like almost two in the morning and here I am: not sleeping, not eating right, and not working anymore. Could it get any funner?  <g For those that don’t know me (and really, why should you?), I was here when the ASAP was really shinny and new.  I see some of the old timers are still here…great seeing you all!  Anyhow, I’ve been down the drugs-and-drinking-to-rehab road.  I’ve been sober for 15 years.  I waited until I was…about 8 years sober before seeking a pdoc for meds.  At first, I refused the idea of taking meds.  I was a basket case, I couldn’t leave my house, the panic and anxiety were eating me up: I lost my job, almost lost my family (over drinking) and yet, even after 8 years without a drink or a drug, I would not seek help. Yeah, I was crazy.  I’ve had PA since I was 19 years old.  I was given Valium for them then but they didn’t help, but taken with beer, wine, etc., the Valium worked!  Yeaaaa!!  Of course, I ended up a drunk with a drug problem.  I got help for this: rehab, AA and NA meetings.  Eight years later, I was nuts again.  This time clean and sober, but nuts!  I had PA’s just thinking about PA’s. <sigh I finally did seek out help–with this group behind me, pushing me, and supporting me.  After much trail and error, my pdoc and I finally found the right combo of meds, and I’ve been panic free ever since, and it’s mostly due to this group. You see, I’ve had PA’s for so long (I’m a healthily, handsome 50 year old man {g}), I was 19 when they started and 43 years old when I sought out help, that I thought I was alone with this "thing".  That no one else was losing their mind like I was. I finally met a guy in AA that seemed to have the same issues as me, but he carried a lot of baggage that didn’t quite fit, so I was alone again, sure that I suffered from some strange condition that would some day finally kill me. I found this NG, I lurked; I couldn’t believe what I was reading.  A whole bunch of people that had the something as me!!  Holey shit!  I finally spoke up; I was very weary of some of the comments that I got, but a lovely lady in Canada spoke up to defend me (from a troll that was saying really dumb ass things to me, like take a walk, that’s all you need). She jumped on this troll and saved me!  I am forever in her debt. Well, the group talked to me softly and gently about the pros and cons of using meds to help me with Panic Disorder.  I was against it, but not closed-minded.  I sought out a pdoc and the rest is history…I have never looked back.  This NG saved my ass.  I am doing much, much better, but the depression is somewhat annoying.  I’m going to try the Lexapro and hope that it helps with the depression and the sexual side effects that Paxil is so famous for…but no panics since I started taking the meds, seven years now. I have been rambling on for a while now, sorry.  I just wanted to get a little feed back.  Happy New Year! — Chuck In my experience, Benzos don’t affect sexual libido or orgasm. SSRIs however, do. Well I can verify that I am experiencing no negative sexual side effects from my Xanax and Lexapro combination. LOL YMMV love Meryl

Response:

Xanax has a shorter half life than klonapin. 5 Mg a day seems like a huge dose, is your doc planning on keeping you on that high of a dose? I take klonopin. My pdoc says it’s the most potent benzo there is. Don’t know if he’s telling me the truth or not. Very easy to get hooked on the stuff though. And withdrawal is pure hell.

Yes, I know that 5 mg daily is more than most folks take, but I’m definitely not like most folks.  My psychiatrist prescribed 8 mg for me, so I’m being conservative in only taking 5 mg.  My pdoc tells me that he has patients who take as much as 12 mg daily and has patients who’ve been on Xanax for 20 years.  I’ve suffered from extremely severe social anxiety for my whole life (I’m unemployed, friendless, and live like a hermit in my parents’ home.)  I’ve tried SSRIs, antipsychotics, and a tricyclic and none did anything at all to reduce my anxiety.  So far benzos have been the only thing that has helped even a bit. I’m well aware of the risk of dependency & withdrawal, but it’s a risk I’m willing to take.  I really don’t have much other choice.  Anxiety has destroyed my life and I need something powerful to battle it.  My previous doctor wanted to put me on Nardil, the dangerous and nasty last resort drug.  I’d rather try maximal doses of benzos before I even consider taking on all the risks, dietary restrictions, and side effects of an MAOI.  At least a benzo isn’t going to kill me if I eat the wrong food the way Nardil could. And yes, your pdoc is correct that Klonopin is the most potent benzo there is (or at least the most potent of the commonly used benzos).  1 mg of Klonopin is equal to 2 mg of Xanax according to most benzo equivalency charts I’ve seen.  My pdoc has a personal preference for Xanax — he says that it tends to work better than Klonopin and at lower doses.

Response:

Meryl, how do you like the Lexapro?  It’s my first depression med and I’ve been on it about 2 weeks at 10 mg.  When did it kick in for you? Thanks, Mr. A – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In my experience, Benzos don’t affect sexual libido or orgasm.   SSRIs however, do. Well I can verify that I am experiencing no negative sexual side effects from my Xanax and Lexapro combination. LOL YMMV love Meryl

Response:

This looks like a good thread to jump in on…at least the sex part of it… I am now taking Paxil CR (60 mg) and Klonopin (3 mg) daily.  I am about to switch the Paxil to Lexapro due to my depression and the deep dark hole that I am in…  <sigh. Anyways…anyone else think that Lexapro is a good med.  I mean, vs. Paxil. In terms of side effects, I mean…duh.  It’s like almost two in the morning and here I am: not sleeping, not eating right, and not working anymore. Could it get any funner?  <g For those that don’t know me (and really, why should you?), I was here when the ASAP was really shinny and new.  I see some of the old timers are still here…great seeing you all!  Anyhow, I’ve been down the drugs-and-drinking-to-rehab road.  I’ve been sober for 15 years.  I waited until I was…about 8 years sober before seeking a pdoc for meds.  At first, I refused the idea of taking meds.  I was a basket case, I couldn’t leave my house, the panic and anxiety were eating me up: I lost my job, almost lost my family (over drinking) and yet, even after 8 years without a drink or a drug, I would not seek help. Yeah, I was crazy.  I’ve had PA since I was 19 years old.  I was given Valium for them then but they didn’t help, but taken with beer, wine, etc., the Valium worked!  Yeaaaa!!  Of course, I ended up a drunk with a drug problem.  I got help for this: rehab, AA and NA meetings.  Eight years later, I was nuts again.  This time clean and sober, but nuts!  I had PA’s just thinking about PA’s. <sigh I finally did seek out help–with this group behind me, pushing me, and supporting me.  After much trail and error, my pdoc and I finally found the right combo of meds, and I’ve been panic free ever since, and it’s mostly due to this group. You see, I’ve had PA’s for so long (I’m a healthily, handsome 50 year old man {g}), I was 19 when they started and 43 years old when I sought out help, that I thought I was alone with this "thing".  That no one else was losing their mind like I was. I finally met a guy in AA that seemed to have the same issues as me, but he carried a lot of baggage that didn’t quite fit, so I was alone again, sure that I suffered from some strange condition that would some day finally kill me. I found this NG, I lurked; I couldn’t believe what I was reading.  A whole bunch of people that had the something as me!!  Holey shit!  I finally spoke up; I was very weary of some of the comments that I got, but a lovely lady in Canada spoke up to defend me (from a troll that was saying really dumb ass things to me, like take a walk, that’s all you need). She jumped on this troll and saved me!  I am forever in her debt. Well, the group talked to me softly and gently about the pros and cons of using meds to help me with Panic Disorder.  I was against it, but not closed-minded.  I sought out a pdoc and the rest is history…I have never looked back.  This NG saved my ass.  I am doing much, much better, but the depression is somewhat annoying.  I’m going to try the Lexapro and hope that it helps with the depression and the sexual side effects that Paxil is so famous for…but no panics since I started taking the meds, seven years now. I have been rambling on for a while now, sorry.  I just wanted to get a little feed back.  Happy New Year! — Chuck

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In my experience, Benzos don’t affect sexual libido or orgasm. SSRIs however, do. Well I can verify that I am experiencing no negative sexual side effects from my Xanax and Lexapro combination. LOL YMMV love Meryl

Response:

In my experience, Benzos don’t affect sexual libido or orgasm.   SSRIs however, do.

Response:

In my experience, Benzos don’t affect sexual libido or orgasm.   SSRIs however, do.

Well I can verify that I am experiencing no negative sexual side effects from my Xanax and Lexapro combination. LOL YMMV love Meryl

Response:

Ok this 47 year old grand ma is gonna tell the truth here…elivil..kinda messed me up …but the klonopin…makes me totally frisky…Hubby says…i am like a tiger in bed…back to my old self…i do not know how this stuff affects the guys…but with me…even my willingness to experiment is back….maybe it is just a menopause thingy…but man…i am enjoyig it while i can and while it lasts..:)..chukkle chukkle..:) Later all, and hugz to all, Gypsy

Klonopin seems to have the same affect on me too Gypsy…great to see I’m not the only one Vanessa

Response:

I am currently using Xanax and from just my experience there has been no flucuation in my sex drive. If anything it has increased just because I am not as worried and anxious when I take it.  I do notice that when I am in stressful situations (such as going home for the holidays) my sex drive diminshes even on the Xanax but it seems to be situational and not from the drug.  Could it be just that when you started using the Xanax it coincided with a stressful period? Just a thought ! Ashley

Response:

Ok this 47 year old grand ma is gonna tell the truth here…elivil..kinda messed me up …but the klonopin…makes me totally frisky…Hubby says…i am like a tiger in bed…back to my old self…i do not know how this stuff affects the guys…but with me…even my willingness to experiment is back….maybe it is just a menopause thingy…but man…i am enjoyig it while i can and while it lasts..:)..chukkle chukkle..:) Later all, and hugz to all, Gypsy

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  ALL psychotropics kill the sex drive. Not sure why they affect that part of the brain though. Now there is rumors there is one drug that DOES NOT effect ones sex drive…. Ike Bullshit! Benzos do not affect sex drive or ability ( unless they make you too tired ) . Benzos can be used by people who are anxious from performance anxiety and such.

I was on Imipramine and Xanax for years( about 12 years ). I couldnt get full wood and would have a delayed ejact. I don’t know how much was due to the Imipramine or the Xanax. I am now on Wellbutrin and Neurontin and Ritalin for my ADHD and possible Narcolepsy. I am happy to say now that i can get full wood with a great ejact and way better orgasm. Oh yeah, btw I suffered from panic/anxiety attacks since my teens. Was on 7mg at one point for the attacks and had no desire for sex. And this was during late 20’s early 30’s, the supposed peak of the horny’s. Spanky

Response:

True.  My doc says they can delay orgasm, which can be good (as he smirked). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ALL psychotropics kill the sex drive. Not sure why they affect that part of the brain though. Now there is rumors there is one drug that DOES NOT effect ones sex drive…. Ike Bullshit! Benzos do not affect sex drive or ability ( unless they make you too tired ) . Benzos can be used by people who are anxious from performance anxiety and such.

Response:

For four weeks I’ve been taking Xanax daily — most days I take 5 mg. I have noticed one problem with this otherwise wonderful medication: decreased sex drive. I’m pretty sure this is due to the Xanax. I never expected this, since in all the years I’ve been reading anxiety forums I have never once heard anyone ever complain of sexual side effects from benzos. I’ve also never experienced any such side effects from other benzos.

Karl,   ALL psychotropics kill the sex drive. Not sure why they affect that part of the brain though. Now there is rumors there is one drug that DOES NOT effect ones sex drive…. Ike

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Xanax has a shorter half life than klonapin. 5 Mg a day seems like a huge dose, is your doc planning on keeping you on that high of a dose? I take klonopin. My pdoc says it’s the most potent benzo there is. Don’t know if he’s telling me the truth or not. Very easy to get hooked on the stuff though. And withdrawal is pure hell. Yes, I know that 5 mg daily is more than most folks take, but I’m definitely not like most folks.  My psychiatrist prescribed 8 mg for me, so I’m being conservative in only taking 5 mg.  My pdoc tells me that he has patients who take as much as 12 mg daily and has patients who’ve been on Xanax for 20 years.  I’ve suffered from extremely severe social anxiety for my whole life (I’m unemployed, friendless, and live like a hermit in my parents’ home.)  I’ve tried SSRIs, antipsychotics, and a tricyclic and none did anything at all to reduce my anxiety.  So far benzos have been the only thing that has helped even a bit. I’m well aware of the risk of dependency & withdrawal, but it’s a risk I’m willing to take.  I really don’t have much other choice.  Anxiety has destroyed my life and I need something powerful to battle it.  My previous doctor wanted to put me on Nardil, the dangerous and nasty last resort drug.  I’d rather try maximal doses of benzos before I even consider taking on all the risks, dietary restrictions, and side effects of an MAOI.  At least a benzo isn’t going to kill me if I eat the wrong food the way Nardil could. And yes, your pdoc is correct that Klonopin is the most potent benzo there is (or at least the most potent of the commonly used benzos).  1 mg of Klonopin is equal to 2 mg of Xanax according to most benzo equivalency charts I’ve seen.  My pdoc has a personal preference for Xanax — he says that it tends to work better than Klonopin and at lower doses.

Hi Karl, My Xanax dose is 4 mg plus a SSRI. I can take more Xanax PRN. My pdoc and GP have patients taking 10 mg of Xanax. The most efficacious dose can be variable. YMMV, love Meryl

Response:

my t-day

Question:

tday was fun and mostly relaxing yesterday.  i’ve been kinda hyperfocused on my puttering lately, so it was good to get away from it for a day. we went to our friends’ house in rochester.  Uncl Ralph and Aunt Rich (as my dear friend Rich was called during last year’s dinner with them, by Ralph’s grandnephew). I was mildly amused by the gender discrepancies.  there were definitely 2 guys and 2 girls, based on behaviors, etc, but i wasn’t one of the girls.  :) and the two guys were the cooks. it was really weird.  Ralph and i were both ordering people around from the minute we walked in the door.  i’d taken a serious hand in food prep before anyone had time to blink, and my stuffings were in the oven, the turkey sliced, the pork chopped (heh – little sow humor, there.), and Ralph and I were directing traffic, getting food out to the tables. Hmm…maybe Ralph and I *were* the girls…  :-DDD But I thought it was wonderful that I was able to just step right into a role seconds after hanging up my coat.  It says something about friends when one needn’t be a "guest" for even a second, despite only having seen each other 4 or 5 times in 2 or 3 years. I was really dissy during dinner, with that vacant stare – people kept looking to see what i was staring at – and slow speech.  Started going seriously downhill at dessert, since i was stuffed, the turkey was teaming up with the narcolepsy against me, and the coffee i was drinking hadn’t taken effect yet.  So i finally said "I’m sorry.  I *have* to go sack out on your couch for a bit." So i did.  Ralph’s daughter, son-in-law, and their moppet showed up whilst i was napping, and Dave had a grand time playing with the moppet. When i sorta woke up again, i kinda realized what the dissing had probably been:  i’d gotten little, but didn’t want to *act* little.  Cuz I was *definitely* little when i woke up. Dave came in and we cuddled for a couple of minutes.  Then i went out to help Aunt Rich with the dishes.  :)  Neither Rich nor Ralph seemed to have any problems/confusion with me being little, though I’d lay serious bets neither’s seen me that little before. We played games for awhile.  One is this guessing kinda game with pretty pieces.  there’s 3 sizes, and they’re stackable pyramids, and the basic set has 4 different colors.  there’s hundreds of games that can be played with those pieces. they’re called icehouse pieces, if anyone’s of a mind to try ‘em out.  most of the games are simple to learn, but can be as complicated, strategy-wise, as you want to make ‘em. dave and rich are both *really* fond of ‘em. so this particular game’s called zendo, and the deal is, one person’s in charge, and sets up 2 sets of pieces in some configuration.  one meets some rule that the person has in mind (like "the set contains a red piece" or "must contain 3 small pieces" or whatever), and the other *doesn’t* meet it, and they’re marked with white and black stones so ppl’ll remember which is which. then the other players take turns making sets of pieces themselves, which the person in charge marks as meeting the rule or not meeting the rule, accordingly. the object is to guess what the rule is by looking at all the pieces that’re out there. i was pretty good at it. then we played malarkey, where a question gets asked, and ppl get random cards, one of which has the answer marked on it, and everyone else gets a card that says "bluff".  then everyone has to give an answer to the question, and everyone votes for who they thought was right. i won.  :) we scored lots n lots of leftovers, too.  :)  am eatin a bunch of ‘em now.  :) it was a really good day. this post brought to you by jill’s need to have lots of posts to read, regardless of how mundane they be. jt — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa

Response:

)))   thanks for sharing!  mine was an alone day which was just fine by me as I couldn’t have handled the people contact for very long!  So I spent the day reading, taking IQ tests, and cooking and eating a bird, most of which is now in the fridge. – generally okay day. Kristi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – tday was fun and mostly relaxing yesterday.  i’ve been kinda hyperfocused on my puttering lately, so it was good to get away from it for a day. we went to our friends’ house in rochester.  Uncl Ralph and Aunt Rich (as my dear friend Rich was called during last year’s dinner with them, by Ralph’s grandnephew). I was mildly amused by the gender discrepancies.  there were definitely 2 guys and 2 girls, based on behaviors, etc, but i wasn’t one of the girls.  :) and the two guys were the cooks. it was really weird.  Ralph and i were both ordering people around from the minute we walked in the door.  i’d taken a serious hand in food prep before anyone had time to blink, and my stuffings were in the oven, the turkey sliced, the pork chopped (heh – little sow humor, there.), and Ralph and I were directing traffic, getting food out to the tables. Hmm…maybe Ralph and I *were* the girls…  :-DDD But I thought it was wonderful that I was able to just step right into a role seconds after hanging up my coat.  It says something about friends when one needn’t be a "guest" for even a second, despite only having seen each other 4 or 5 times in 2 or 3 years. I was really dissy during dinner, with that vacant stare – people kept looking to see what i was staring at – and slow speech.  Started going seriously downhill at dessert, since i was stuffed, the turkey was teaming up with the narcolepsy against me, and the coffee i was drinking hadn’t taken effect yet.  So i finally said "I’m sorry.  I *have* to go sack out on your couch for a bit." So i did.  Ralph’s daughter, son-in-law, and their moppet showed up whilst i was napping, and Dave had a grand time playing with the moppet. When i sorta woke up again, i kinda realized what the dissing had probably been:  i’d gotten little, but didn’t want to *act* little.  Cuz I was *definitely* little when i woke up. Dave came in and we cuddled for a couple of minutes.  Then i went out to help Aunt Rich with the dishes.  :)  Neither Rich nor Ralph seemed to have any problems/confusion with me being little, though I’d lay serious bets neither’s seen me that little before. We played games for awhile.  One is this guessing kinda game with pretty pieces.  there’s 3 sizes, and they’re stackable pyramids, and the basic set has 4 different colors.  there’s hundreds of games that can be played with those pieces. they’re called icehouse pieces, if anyone’s of a mind to try ‘em out.  most of the games are simple to learn, but can be as complicated, strategy-wise, as you want to make ‘em. dave and rich are both *really* fond of ‘em. so this particular game’s called zendo, and the deal is, one person’s in charge, and sets up 2 sets of pieces in some configuration.  one meets some rule that the person has in mind (like "the set contains a red piece" or "must contain 3 small pieces" or whatever), and the other *doesn’t* meet it, and they’re marked with white and black stones so ppl’ll remember which is which. then the other players take turns making sets of pieces themselves, which the person in charge marks as meeting the rule or not meeting the rule, accordingly. the object is to guess what the rule is by looking at all the pieces that’re out there. i was pretty good at it. then we played malarkey, where a question gets asked, and ppl get random cards, one of which has the answer marked on it, and everyone else gets a card that says "bluff".  then everyone has to give an answer to the question, and everyone votes for who they thought was right. i won.  :) we scored lots n lots of leftovers, too.  :)  am eatin a bunch of ‘em now.  :) it was a really good day. this post brought to you by jill’s need to have lots of posts to read, regardless of how mundane they be. jt

Response:

You can buy Icehouse pieces over the web at http://www.looneylabs.com/OurStores/product.html?ProductID=43 .  The pieces are sold in tubes of one color each for $8 each.  You need four colors to play Zendo, so buying the Zendo boxed set at $40 wouldn’t be a bad idea if you wanted to play the game that Jen described in her original post.  It comes with four sets of Icehouse pieces in the original colors (red, blue, green and yellow), three colors of glass beads for markers (white, black and green), and cards with suggestions for rules that the Zendo master can use for his/her players to guess.  The Zendo boxed set is sold at the same site on this page: http://www.looneylabs.com/OurStores/product.html?ProductID=165 You can also find a list of local stores in your area that have been known to carry Looney Labs products, including Icehouse pieces, on this page: http://www.looneylabs.com/OurCommunity/Rosters/Location/index.html

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i havent been able to find the icehouse pyramids.  do you know where they were bought? glad you had good day t We played games for awhile.  One is this guessing kinda game with pretty pieces.  there’s 3 sizes, and they’re stackable pyramids, and the basic set has 4 different colors.  there’s hundreds of games that can be played with those pieces. they’re called icehouse pieces, if anyone’s of a mind to try ‘em out.  most of the games are simple to learn, but can be as complicated, strategy-wise, as you want to make ‘em. dave and rich are both *really* fond of ‘em.

Response:

yeah, i got tired of watching my dad down half a bottle of jack every year. jt

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – )))   thanks for sharing!  mine was an alone day which was just fine by me as I couldn’t have handled the people contact for very long!  So I spent the day reading, taking IQ tests, and cooking and eating a bird, most of which is now in the fridge. – generally okay day. Kristi tday was fun and mostly relaxing yesterday.  i’ve been kinda hyperfocused on my puttering lately, so it was good to get away from it for a day. we went to our friends’ house in rochester.  Uncl Ralph and Aunt Rich (as my dear friend Rich was called during last year’s dinner with them, by Ralph’s grandnephew). I was mildly amused by the gender discrepancies.  there were definitely 2 guys and 2 girls, based on behaviors, etc, but i wasn’t one of the girls.  :) and the two guys were the cooks. it was really weird.  Ralph and i were both ordering people around from the minute we walked in the door.  i’d taken a serious hand in food prep before anyone had time to blink, and my stuffings were in the oven, the turkey sliced, the pork chopped (heh – little sow humor, there.), and Ralph and I were directing traffic, getting food out to the tables. Hmm…maybe Ralph and I *were* the girls…  :-DDD But I thought it was wonderful that I was able to just step right into a role seconds after hanging up my coat.  It says something about friends when one needn’t be a "guest" for even a second, despite only having seen each other 4 or 5 times in 2 or 3 years. I was really dissy during dinner, with that vacant stare – people kept looking to see what i was staring at – and slow speech.  Started going seriously downhill at dessert, since i was stuffed, the turkey was teaming up with the narcolepsy against me, and the coffee i was drinking hadn’t taken effect yet.  So i finally said "I’m sorry.  I *have* to go sack out on your couch for a bit." So i did.  Ralph’s daughter, son-in-law, and their moppet showed up whilst i was napping, and Dave had a grand time playing with the moppet. When i sorta woke up again, i kinda realized what the dissing had probably been:  i’d gotten little, but didn’t want to *act* little.  Cuz I was *definitely* little when i woke up. Dave came in and we cuddled for a couple of minutes. Then i went out to help Aunt Rich with the dishes.  :)  Neither Rich nor Ralph seemed to have any problems/confusion with me being little, though I’d lay serious bets neither’s seen me that little before. We played games for awhile.  One is this guessing kinda game with pretty pieces.  there’s 3 sizes, and they’re stackable pyramids, and the basic set has 4 different colors. there’s hundreds of games that can be played with those pieces. they’re called icehouse pieces, if anyone’s of a mind to try ‘em out.  most of the games are simple to learn, but can be as complicated, strategy-wise, as you want to make ‘em. dave and rich are both *really* fond of ‘em. so this particular game’s called zendo, and the deal is, one person’s in charge, and sets up 2 sets of pieces in some configuration.  one meets some rule that the person has in mind (like "the set contains a red piece" or "must contain 3 small pieces" or whatever), and the other *doesn’t* meet it, and they’re marked with white and black stones so ppl’ll remember which is which. then the other players take turns making sets of pieces themselves, which the person in charge marks as meeting the rule or not meeting the rule, accordingly. the object is to guess what the rule is by looking at all the pieces that’re out there. i was pretty good at it. then we played malarkey, where a question gets asked, and ppl get random cards, one of which has the answer marked on it, and everyone else gets a card that says "bluff". then everyone has to give an answer to the question, and everyone votes for who they thought was right. i won.  :) we scored lots n lots of leftovers, too.  :)  am eatin a bunch of ‘em now.  :) it was a really good day. this post brought to you by jill’s need to have lots of posts to read, regardless of how mundane they be. jt

Response:

i havent been able to find the icehouse pyramids.  do you know where they were bought? glad you had good day t

We played games for awhile.  One is this guessing kinda game with pretty pieces.  there’s 3 sizes, and they’re stackable pyramids, and the basic set has 4 different colors.  there’s hundreds of games that can be played with those pieces. they’re called icehouse pieces, if anyone’s of a mind to try ‘em out.  most of the games are simple to learn, but can be as complicated, strategy-wise, as you want to make ‘em. dave and rich are both *really* fond of ‘em.

Response:

yer so helpful, roo.  :) jt

You can buy Icehouse pieces over the web at

http://www.looneylabs.com/OurStores/product.html?ProductID=43 . The pieces are sold in tubes of one color each for $8 each.  You need four colors to play Zendo, so buying the Zendo boxed set at $40 wouldn’t be a bad idea if you wanted to play the game that Jen described in her original post.  It comes with four sets of Icehouse pieces in the original colors (red, blue, green and yellow), three colors of glass beads for markers (white, black and green), and cards with suggestions for rules that the

Zendo master can use for his/her players to guess.  The Zendo boxed set is sold at the same site on this page:

http://www.looneylabs.com/OurStores/product.html?ProductID=165 You can also find a list of local stores in your area that have been known to carry Looney Labs products, including Icehouse pieces, on this page:

http://www.looneylabs.com/OurCommunity/Rosters/Location/index.html

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i havent been able to find the icehouse pyramids.  do you know where they were bought? glad you had good day t We played games for awhile.  One is this guessing kinda game with pretty pieces.  there’s 3 sizes, and they’re stackable pyramids, and the basic set has 4 different colors. there’s hundreds of games that can be played with those pieces. they’re called icehouse pieces, if anyone’s of a mind to try ‘em out.  most of the games are simple to learn, but can be as complicated, strategy-wise, as you want to make ‘em. dave and rich are both *really* fond of ‘em.

Response:

thanks!

You can buy Icehouse pieces over the web at http://www.looneylabs.com/OurStores/product.html?ProductID=43 .  The pieces are sold in tubes of one color each for $8 each.  You need four colors to play Zendo, so buying the Zendo boxed set at $40 wouldn’t be a bad idea if you wanted to play the game that Jen described in her original post.  It comes with four sets of Icehouse pieces in the original colors (red, blue, green and yellow), three colors of glass beads for markers (white, black and green), and cards with suggestions for rules that the Zendo master can use for his/her players to guess.  The Zendo boxed set is sold at the same site on this page:

http://www.looneylabs.com/OurStores/product.html?ProductID=165 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You can also find a list of local stores in your area that have been known to carry Looney Labs products, including Icehouse pieces, on this page: http://www.looneylabs.com/OurCommunity/Rosters/Location/index.html i havent been able to find the icehouse pyramids.  do you know where they were bought? glad you had good day t We played games for awhile.  One is this guessing kinda game with pretty pieces.  there’s 3 sizes, and they’re stackable pyramids, and the basic set has 4 different colors.  there’s hundreds of games that can be played with those pieces. they’re called icehouse pieces, if anyone’s of a mind to try ‘em out.  most of the games are simple to learn, but can be as complicated, strategy-wise, as you want to make ‘em. dave and rich are both *really* fond of ‘em.

Response:

Awww, pshaw… just doing my duty as a helpful Mad Lab Rabbit… that’s what they call the volunteers who spread the word about Looney Labs stuff, like Icehouse pieces and Icehouse games. Actually, the game that Jen described, Zendo, can be played with other things, not just with Icehouse pieces.  I’ve run a game of Zendo before via email using English sentences, and I wouldn’t mind running a Zendo game on this newsgroup the same way if people here are interested.  Jen’s original post in this thread contains a good general description of the game… I’d be happy to go into more details about how Zendo with English sentences is played if people are interested in trying it out.  It’s a really fun brain-teaser game of pattern-recognition.  And I know there are plenty of smart people on this newsgroup who could play this game well, Jen included. Is anyone interested in playing?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – yer so helpful, roo.  :) jt You can buy Icehouse pieces over the web at http://www.looneylabs.com/OurStores/product.html?ProductID=43 . The pieces are sold in tubes of one color each for $8 each.  You need four colors to play Zendo, so buying the Zendo boxed set at $40 wouldn’t be a bad idea if you wanted to play the game that Jen described in her original post.  It comes with four sets of Icehouse pieces in the original colors (red, blue, green and yellow), three colors of glass beads for markers (white, black and green), and cards with suggestions for rules that the Zendo master can use for his/her players to guess.  The Zendo boxed set is sold at the same site on this page: http://www.looneylabs.com/OurStores/product.html?ProductID=165 You can also find a list of local stores in your area that have been known to carry Looney Labs products, including Icehouse pieces, on this page: http://www.looneylabs.com/OurCommunity/Rosters/Location/index.html i havent been able to find the icehouse pyramids.  do you know where they were bought? glad you had good day t We played games for awhile.  One is this guessing kinda game with pretty pieces.  there’s 3 sizes, and they’re stackable pyramids, and the basic set has 4 different colors. there’s hundreds of games that can be played with those pieces. they’re called icehouse pieces, if anyone’s of a mind to try ‘em out.  most of the games are simple to learn, but can be as complicated, strategy-wise, as you want to make ‘em. dave and rich are both *really* fond of ‘em.

Response:

okay, I’ll bite – who’s kanga??? DD Kristi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – yer so helpful, roo.  :) jt You can buy Icehouse pieces over the web at http://www.looneylabs.com/OurStores/product.html?ProductID=43 . The pieces are sold in tubes of one color each for $8 each.  You need four colors to play Zendo, so buying the Zendo boxed set at $40 wouldn’t be a bad idea if you wanted to play the game that Jen described in her original post.  It comes with four sets of Icehouse pieces in the original colors (red, blue, green and yellow), three colors of glass beads for markers (white, black and green), and cards with suggestions for rules that the Zendo master can use for his/her players to guess.  The Zendo boxed set is sold at the same site on this page: http://www.looneylabs.com/OurStores/product.html?ProductID=165 You can also find a list of local stores in your area that have been known to carry Looney Labs products, including Icehouse pieces, on this page: http://www.looneylabs.com/OurCommunity/Rosters/Location/index.h tml i havent been able to find the icehouse pyramids.  do you know where they were bought? glad you had good day t We played games for awhile.  One is this guessing kinda game with pretty pieces.  there’s 3 sizes, and they’re stackable pyramids, and the basic set has 4 different colors. there’s hundreds of games that can be played with those pieces. they’re called icehouse pieces, if anyone’s of a mind to try ‘em out.  most of the games are simple to learn, but can be as complicated, strategy-wise, as you want to make ‘em. dave and rich are both *really* fond of ‘em.

Response:

Oh thanks, that’s nice of you… I’m on the Blab Rabbit roster under Dave Leonard.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i was just  typing a post to see if this was adaptable to internet play if i decide to order from looney labs what name do you use on the roster? want to make sure you get your ‘rabbit points’ t Awww, pshaw… just doing my duty as a helpful Mad Lab Rabbit… that’s what they call the volunteers who spread the word about Looney Labs stuff, like Icehouse pieces and Icehouse games. Actually, the game that Jen described, Zendo, can be played with other things, not just with Icehouse pieces.  I’ve run a game of Zendo before via email using English sentences, and I wouldn’t mind running a Zendo game on this newsgroup the same way if people here are interested.  Jen’s original post in this thread contains a good general description of the game… I’d be happy to go into more details about how Zendo with English sentences is played if people are interested in trying it out.  It’s a really fun brain-teaser game of pattern-recognition.  And I know there are plenty of smart people on this newsgroup who could play this game well, Jen included. Is anyone interested in playing? yer so helpful, roo.  :) jt You can buy Icehouse pieces over the web at http://www.looneylabs.com/OurStores/product.html?ProductID=43 . The pieces are sold in tubes of one color each for $8 each.  You need four colors to play Zendo, so buying the Zendo boxed set at $40 wouldn’t be a bad idea if you wanted to play the game that Jen described in her original post.  It comes with four sets of Icehouse pieces in the original colors (red, blue, green and yellow), three colors of glass beads for markers (white, black and green), and cards with suggestions for rules that the Zendo master can use for his/her players to guess.  The Zendo boxed set is sold at the same site on this page: http://www.looneylabs.com/OurStores/product.html?ProductID=165 You can also find a list of local stores in your area that have been known to carry Looney Labs products, including Icehouse pieces, on this page: http://www.looneylabs.com/OurCommunity/Rosters/Location/index.html i havent been able to find the icehouse pyramids.  do you know where they were bought? glad you had good day t We played games for awhile.  One is this guessing kinda game with pretty pieces.  there’s 3 sizes, and they’re stackable pyramids, and the basic set has 4 different colors. there’s hundreds of games that can be played with those pieces. they’re called icehouse pieces, if anyone’s of a mind to try ‘em out.  most of the games are simple to learn, but can be as complicated, strategy-wise, as you want to make ‘em. dave and rich are both *really* fond of ‘em.

Response:

*hee* i call him "roo"  n he call me "roo", n is very useful word, roo.  :)  cuz is from a commershul lotta years ago wiff a puppy dat say i luv u, n puppy go "reh ruh roo!" so is how we say "i luv u", n we say "roo" for short, an so we call each other roo.  :)  an is other meanins, cuz is mean "roo?" is "what?" or "i want affection" an is whole lotta differnt ways to say it that mean differnt things.  :) like, tone of voice, u know?  like start low go high looks like /, and all one tone looks like – and hi-to-lo looks like . so a conversation could go: me: roo?   / dave: roo.  - (kinda means "i’m here; i’m listening; i luv u 2") me: roo!   dave: rooOOoo.  (is an affirmation.  means kinda "i luv u" and "you’re my sweetie" n stuff.) me: roo!  -  (kinda means "ok.  :)  just checkin!") we do this a lot.  :)  it’s disgustingly cute. is my dava-roo-bear.  :) dyenths, for jt

okay, I’ll bite – who’s kanga??? DD Kristi yer so helpful, roo.  :) jt You can buy Icehouse pieces over the web at

http://www.looneylabs.com/OurStores/product.html?ProductID=43 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – . The pieces are sold in tubes of one color each for $8 each.  You need four colors to play Zendo, so buying the Zendo boxed set at $40 wouldn’t be a bad idea if you wanted to play the game that Jen described in her original post.  It comes with four sets of Icehouse pieces in the original colors (red, blue, green and yellow), three colors of glass beads for markers (white, black and green), and cards with suggestions for rules that the Zendo master can use for his/her players to guess.  The Zendo boxed set is sold at the same site on this page:

http://www.looneylabs.com/OurStores/product.html?ProductID=165 You can also find a list of local stores in your area that have been known to carry Looney Labs products, including Icehouse pieces, on this page:

http://www.looneylabs.com/OurCommunity/Rosters/Location/index.h tml

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i havent been able to find the icehouse pyramids.  do you know where they were bought? glad you had good day t message We played games for awhile.  One is this guessing kinda game with pretty pieces.  there’s 3 sizes, and they’re stackable pyramids, and the basic set has 4 different colors. there’s hundreds of games that can be played with those pieces. they’re called icehouse pieces, if anyone’s of a mind to try ‘em out.  most of the games are simple to learn, but can be as complicated, strategy-wise, as you want to make ‘em. dave and rich are both *really* fond of ‘em.

Response:

awwwwwwwww   adorable!!!!! ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) Kristi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – *hee* i call him "roo"  n he call me "roo", n is very useful word, roo.  :)  cuz is from a commershul lotta years ago wiff a puppy dat say i luv u, n puppy go "reh ruh roo!" so is how we say "i luv u", n we say "roo" for short, an so we call each other roo.  :)  an is other meanins, cuz is mean "roo?" is "what?" or "i want affection" an is whole lotta differnt ways to say it that mean differnt things.  :) like, tone of voice, u know?  like start low go high looks like /, and all one tone looks like – and hi-to-lo looks like . so a conversation could go: me: roo?   / dave: roo.  - (kinda means "i’m here; i’m listening; i luv u 2") me: roo!   dave: rooOOoo.  (is an affirmation.  means kinda "i luv u" and "you’re my sweetie" n stuff.) me: roo!  -  (kinda means "ok.  :)  just checkin!") we do this a lot.  :)  it’s disgustingly cute. is my dava-roo-bear.  :) dyenths, for jt okay, I’ll bite – who’s kanga??? DD Kristi yer so helpful, roo.  :) jt You can buy Icehouse pieces over the web at http://www.looneylabs.com/OurStores/product.html?ProductID=43 . The pieces are sold in tubes of one color each for $8 each.  You need four colors to play Zendo, so buying the Zendo boxed set at $40 wouldn’t be a bad idea if you wanted to play the game that Jen described in her original post.  It comes with four sets of Icehouse pieces in the original colors (red, blue, green and yellow), three colors of glass beads for markers (white, black and green), and cards with suggestions for rules that the Zendo master can use for his/her players to guess.  The Zendo boxed set is sold at the same site on this page: http://www.looneylabs.com/OurStores/product.html?ProductID=165 You can also find a list of local stores in your area that have been known to carry Looney Labs products, including Icehouse pieces, on this page: http://www.looneylabs.com/OurCommunity/Rosters/Location/index.h tml i havent been able to find the icehouse pyramids.  do you know where they were bought? glad you had good day t message We played games for awhile.  One is this guessing kinda game with pretty pieces.  there’s 3 sizes, and they’re stackable pyramids, and the basic set has 4 different colors. there’s hundreds of games that can be played with those pieces. they’re called icehouse pieces, if anyone’s of a mind to try ‘em out.  most of the games are simple to learn, but can be as complicated, strategy-wise, as you want to make ‘em. dave and rich are both *really* fond of ‘em.

Response:

we do this a lot.  :)  it’s disgustingly cute.

I can attest to this living in the same house. Val for Rainstar – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – is my dava-roo-bear.  :) dyenths, for jt okay, I’ll bite – who’s kanga??? DD Kristi yer so helpful, roo.  :) jt You can buy Icehouse pieces over the web at http://www.looneylabs.com/OurStores/product.html?ProductID=43 . The pieces are sold in tubes of one color each for $8 each.  You need four colors to play Zendo, so buying the Zendo boxed set at $40 wouldn’t be a bad idea if you wanted to play the game that Jen described in her original post.  It comes with four sets of Icehouse pieces in the original colors (red, blue, green and yellow), three colors of glass beads for markers (white, black and green), and cards with suggestions for rules that the Zendo master can use for his/her players to guess.  The Zendo boxed set is sold at the same site on this page: http://www.looneylabs.com/OurStores/product.html?ProductID=165 You can also find a list of local stores in your area that have been known to carry Looney Labs products, including Icehouse pieces, on this page: http://www.looneylabs.com/OurCommunity/Rosters/Location/index.h tml i havent been able to find the icehouse pyramids.  do you know where they were bought? glad you had good day t message We played games for awhile.  One is this guessing kinda game with pretty pieces.  there’s 3 sizes, and they’re stackable pyramids, and the basic set has 4 different colors. there’s hundreds of games that can be played with those pieces. they’re called icehouse pieces, if anyone’s of a mind to try ‘em out.  most of the games are simple to learn, but can be as complicated, strategy-wise, as you want to make ‘em. dave and rich are both *really* fond of ‘em.

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Response:

rotflololololol!!!!! DDDDDD Kristi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – we do this a lot.  :)  it’s disgustingly cute. I can attest to this living in the same house. Val for Rainstar is my dava-roo-bear.  :) dyenths, for jt okay, I’ll bite – who’s kanga??? DD Kristi yer so helpful, roo.  :) jt You can buy Icehouse pieces over the web at http://www.looneylabs.com/OurStores/product.html?ProductID=43 . The pieces are sold in tubes of one color each for $8 each.  You need four colors to play Zendo, so buying the Zendo boxed set at $40 wouldn’t be a bad idea if you wanted to play the game that Jen described in her original post.  It comes with four sets of Icehouse pieces in the original colors (red, blue, green and yellow), three colors of glass beads for markers (white, black and green), and cards with suggestions for rules that the Zendo master can use for his/her players to guess.  The Zendo boxed set is sold at the same site on this page: http://www.looneylabs.com/OurStores/product.html?ProductID=165 You can also find a list of local stores in your area that have been known to carry Looney Labs products, including Icehouse pieces, on this page: http://www.looneylabs.com/OurCommunity/Rosters/Location/index.h tml i havent been able to find the icehouse pyramids.  do you know where they were bought? glad you had good day t message We played games for awhile.  One is this guessing kinda game with pretty pieces.  there’s 3 sizes, and they’re stackable pyramids, and the basic set has 4 different colors. there’s hundreds of games that can be played with those pieces. they’re called icehouse pieces, if anyone’s of a mind to try ‘em out.  most of the games are simple to learn, but can be as complicated, strategy-wise, as you want to make ‘em. dave and rich are both *really* fond of ‘em. — For more information about this NNTP posting service, contact: If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page: https://asarian-host.net/cgi-bin/signup.cgi

Response:

))) Kristi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hehe.. mine was pretty alone too.  Had a shrimp ring and a West Wing marathon on the Bravo channel… who could ask for anything more??  I would’ve liked it if my parents could have come out for the day but oh well.  Maybe next year. Val for Rainstar )))   thanks for sharing!  mine was an alone day which was :just fine by me as I couldn’t have handled the people contact for very long!  So I spent the day reading, taking IQ tests, and cooking and eating a bird, most of which is now in the fridge. – generally okay day. Kristi tday was fun and mostly relaxing yesterday.  i’ve been kinda hyperfocused on my puttering lately, so it was good to get away from it for a day. we went to our friends’ house in rochester.  Uncl Ralph and Aunt Rich (as my dear friend Rich was called during last year’s dinner with them, by Ralph’s grandnephew). I was mildly amused by the gender discrepancies.  there were definitely 2 guys and 2 girls, based on behaviors, etc, but i wasn’t one of the girls.  :) and the two guys were the cooks. it was really weird.  Ralph and i were both ordering people around from the minute we walked in the door.  i’d taken a serious hand in food prep before anyone had time to blink, and my stuffings were in the oven, the turkey sliced, the pork chopped (heh – little sow humor, there.), and Ralph and I were directing traffic, getting food out to the tables. Hmm…maybe Ralph and I *were* the girls…  :-DDD But I thought it was wonderful that I was able to just step right into a role seconds after hanging up my coat.  It says something about friends when one needn’t be a "guest" for even a second, despite only having seen each other 4 or 5 times in 2 or 3 years. I was really dissy during dinner, with that vacant stare – people kept looking to see what i was staring at – and slow speech.  Started going seriously downhill at dessert, since i was stuffed, the turkey was teaming up with the narcolepsy against me, and the coffee i was drinking hadn’t taken effect yet.  So i finally said "I’m sorry.  I *have* to go sack out on your couch for a bit." So i did.  Ralph’s daughter, son-in-law, and their moppet showed up whilst i was napping, and Dave had a grand time playing with the moppet. When i sorta woke up again, i kinda realized what the dissing had probably been:  i’d gotten little, but didn’t want to *act* little.  Cuz I was *definitely* little when i woke up. Dave came in and we cuddled for a couple of minutes.  Then i went out to help Aunt Rich with the dishes.  :)  Neither Rich nor Ralph seemed to have any problems/confusion with me being little, though I’d lay serious bets neither’s seen me that little before. We played games for awhile.  One is this guessing kinda game with pretty pieces.  there’s 3 sizes, and they’re stackable pyramids, and the basic set has 4 different colors.  there’s hundreds of games that can be played with those pieces. they’re called icehouse pieces, if anyone’s of a mind to try ‘em out.  most of the games are simple to learn, but can be as complicated, strategy-wise, as you want to make ‘em. dave and rich are both *really* fond of ‘em. so this particular game’s called zendo, and the deal is, one person’s in charge, and sets up 2 sets of pieces in some configuration.  one meets some rule that the person has in mind (like "the set contains a red piece" or "must contain 3 small pieces" or whatever), and the other *doesn’t* meet it, and they’re marked with white and black stones so ppl’ll remember which is which. then the other players take turns making sets of pieces themselves, which the person in charge marks as meeting the rule or not meeting the rule, accordingly. the object is to guess what the rule is by looking at all the pieces that’re out there. i was pretty good at it. then we played malarkey, where a question gets asked, and ppl get random cards, one of which has the answer marked on it, and everyone else gets a card that says "bluff".  then everyone has to give an answer to the question, and everyone votes for who they thought was right. i won.  :) we scored lots n lots of leftovers, too.  :)  am eatin a bunch of ‘em now.  :) it was a really good day. this post brought to you by jill’s need to have lots of posts to read, regardless of how mundane they be. jt — For more information about this NNTP posting service, contact: If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page: https://asarian-host.net/cgi-bin/signup.cgi

Response:

*GRINS!* jt

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – rotflololololol!!!!! DDDDDD Kristi we do this a lot.  :)  it’s disgustingly cute. I can attest to this living in the same house. Val for Rainstar is my dava-roo-bear.  :) dyenths, for jt okay, I’ll bite – who’s kanga??? DD Kristi yer so helpful, roo.  :) jt You can buy Icehouse pieces over the web at

http://www.looneylabs.com/OurStores/product.html?ProductID=43 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – . The pieces are sold in tubes of one color each for $8 each.  You need four colors to play Zendo, so buying the Zendo boxed set at $40 wouldn’t be a bad idea if you wanted to play the game that Jen described in her original post.  It comes with four sets of Icehouse pieces in the original colors (red, blue, green and yellow), three colors of glass beads for markers (white, black and green), and cards with suggestions for rules that the Zendo master can use for his/her players to guess.  The Zendo boxed set is sold at the same site on this page:

http://www.looneylabs.com/OurStores/product.html?ProductID=165 You can also find a list of local stores in your area that have been known to carry Looney Labs products, including Icehouse pieces, on this page:

http://www.looneylabs.com/OurCommunity/Rosters/Location/index.h tml

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i havent been able to find the icehouse pyramids. do you know where they were bought? glad you had good day t message We played games for awhile.  One is this guessing kinda game with pretty pieces.  there’s 3 sizes, and they’re stackable pyramids, and the basic set has 4 different colors. there’s hundreds of games that can be played with those pieces. they’re called icehouse pieces, if anyone’s of a mind to try ‘em out.  most of the games are simple to learn, but can be as complicated, strategy-wise, as you want to make ‘em. dave and rich are both *really* fond of ‘em. — For more information about this NNTP posting service, contact: If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page: https://asarian-host.net/cgi-bin/signup.cgi

Response:

yes!  (having no real idea how it’s played…) (anything to get more posts for Jill) Kristi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Awww, pshaw… just doing my duty as a helpful Mad Lab Rabbit… that’s what they call the volunteers who spread the word about Looney Labs stuff, like Icehouse pieces and Icehouse games. Actually, the game that Jen described, Zendo, can be played with other things, not just with Icehouse pieces.  I’ve run a game of Zendo before via email using English sentences, and I wouldn’t mind running a Zendo game on this newsgroup the same way if people here are interested.  Jen’s original post in this thread contains a good general description of the game… I’d be happy to go into more details about how Zendo with English sentences is played if people are interested in trying it out.  It’s a really fun brain-teaser game of pattern-recognition.  And I know there are plenty of smart people on this newsgroup who could play this game well, Jen included. Is anyone interested in playing? yer so helpful, roo.  :) jt You can buy Icehouse pieces over the web at http://www.looneylabs.com/OurStores/product.html?ProductID=43 . The pieces are sold in tubes of one color each for $8 each.  You need four colors to play Zendo, so buying the Zendo boxed set at $40 wouldn’t be a bad idea if you wanted to play the game that Jen described in her original post.  It comes with four sets of Icehouse pieces in the original colors (red, blue, green and yellow), three colors of glass beads for markers (white, black and green), and cards with suggestions for rules that the Zendo master can use for his/her players to guess.  The Zendo boxed set is sold at the same site on this page: http://www.looneylabs.com/OurStores/product.html?ProductID=165 You can also find a list of local stores in your area that have been known to carry Looney Labs products, including Icehouse pieces, on this page: http://www.looneylabs.com/OurCommunity/Rosters/Location/index. html i havent been able to find the icehouse pyramids.  do you know where they were bought? glad you had good day t We played games for awhile.  One is this guessing kinda game with pretty pieces.  there’s 3 sizes, and they’re stackable pyramids, and the basic set has 4 different colors. there’s hundreds of games that can be played with those pieces. they’re called icehouse pieces, if anyone’s of a mind to try ‘em out.  most of the games are simple to learn, but can be as complicated, strategy-wise, as you want to make ‘em. dave and rich are both *really* fond of ‘em.

Response:

i was just  typing a post to see if this was adaptable to internet play if i decide to order from looney labs what name do you use on the roster? want to make sure you get your ‘rabbit points’ t

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Awww, pshaw… just doing my duty as a helpful Mad Lab Rabbit… that’s what they call the volunteers who spread the word about Looney Labs stuff, like Icehouse pieces and Icehouse games. Actually, the game that Jen described, Zendo, can be played with other things, not just with Icehouse pieces.  I’ve run a game of Zendo before via email using English sentences, and I wouldn’t mind running a Zendo game on this newsgroup the same way if people here are interested.  Jen’s original post in this thread contains a good general description of the game… I’d be happy to go into more details about how Zendo with English sentences is played if people are interested in trying it out.  It’s a really fun brain-teaser game of pattern-recognition.  And I know there are plenty of smart people on this newsgroup who could play this game well, Jen included. Is anyone interested in playing? yer so helpful, roo.  :) jt You can buy Icehouse pieces over the web at http://www.looneylabs.com/OurStores/product.html?ProductID=43 . The pieces are sold in tubes of one color each for $8 each.  You need four colors to play Zendo, so buying the Zendo boxed set at $40 wouldn’t be a bad idea if you wanted to play the game that Jen described in her original post.  It comes with four sets of Icehouse pieces in the original colors (red, blue, green and yellow), three colors of glass beads for markers (white, black and green), and cards with suggestions for rules that the Zendo master can use for his/her players to guess.  The Zendo boxed set is sold at the same site on this page: http://www.looneylabs.com/OurStores/product.html?ProductID=165 You can also find a list of local stores in your area that have been known to carry Looney Labs products, including Icehouse pieces, on this page: http://www.looneylabs.com/OurCommunity/Rosters/Location/index.html i havent been able to find the icehouse pyramids.  do you know where they were bought? glad you had good day t We played games for awhile.  One is this guessing kinda game with pretty pieces.  there’s 3 sizes, and they’re stackable pyramids, and the basic set has 4 different colors. there’s hundreds of games that can be played with those pieces. they’re called icehouse pieces, if anyone’s of a mind to try ‘em out.  most of the games are simple to learn, but can be as complicated, strategy-wise, as you want to make ‘em. dave and rich are both *really* fond of ‘em.

Response:

hehe.. mine was pretty alone too.  Had a shrimp ring and a West Wing marathon on the Bravo channel… who could ask for anything more??  I would’ve liked it if my parents could have come out for the day but oh well.  Maybe next year. Val for Rainstar – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – )))   thanks for sharing!  mine was an alone day which was just fine by me as I couldn’t have handled the people contact for very long!  So I spent the day reading, taking IQ tests, and cooking and eating a bird, most of which is now in the fridge. – generally okay day. Kristi tday was fun and mostly relaxing yesterday.  i’ve been kinda hyperfocused on my puttering lately, so it was good to get away from it for a day. we went to our friends’ house in rochester.  Uncl Ralph and Aunt Rich (as my dear friend Rich was called during last year’s dinner with them, by Ralph’s grandnephew). I was mildly amused by the gender discrepancies.  there were definitely 2 guys and 2 girls, based on behaviors, etc, but i wasn’t one of the girls.  :) and the two guys were the cooks. it was really weird.  Ralph and i were both ordering people around from the minute we walked in the door.  i’d taken a serious hand in food prep before anyone had time to blink, and my stuffings were in the oven, the turkey sliced, the pork chopped (heh – little sow humor, there.), and Ralph and I were directing traffic, getting food out to the tables. Hmm…maybe Ralph and I *were* the girls…  :-DDD But I thought it was wonderful that I was able to just step right into a role seconds after hanging up my coat.  It says something about friends when one needn’t be a "guest" for even a second, despite only having seen each other 4 or 5 times in 2 or 3 years. I was really dissy during dinner, with that vacant stare – people kept looking to see what i was staring at – and slow speech.  Started going seriously downhill at dessert, since i was stuffed, the turkey was teaming up with the narcolepsy against me, and the coffee i was drinking hadn’t taken effect yet.  So i finally said "I’m sorry.  I *have* to go sack out on your couch for a bit." So i did.  Ralph’s daughter, son-in-law, and their moppet showed up whilst i was napping, and Dave had a grand time playing with the moppet. When i sorta woke up again, i kinda realized what the dissing had probably been:  i’d gotten little, but didn’t want to *act* little.  Cuz I was *definitely* little when i woke up. Dave came in and we cuddled for a couple of minutes.  Then i went out to help Aunt Rich with the dishes.  :)  Neither Rich nor Ralph seemed to have any problems/confusion with me being little, though I’d lay serious bets neither’s seen me that little before. We played games for awhile.  One is this guessing kinda game with pretty pieces.  there’s 3 sizes, and they’re stackable pyramids, and the basic set has 4 different colors.  there’s hundreds of games that can be played with those pieces. they’re called icehouse pieces, if anyone’s of a mind to try ‘em out.  most of the games are simple to learn, but can be as complicated, strategy-wise, as you want to make ‘em. dave and rich are both *really* fond of ‘em. so this particular game’s called zendo, and the deal is, one person’s in charge, and sets up 2 sets of pieces in some configuration.  one meets some rule that the person has in mind (like "the set contains a red piece" or "must contain 3 small pieces" or whatever), and the other *doesn’t* meet it, and they’re marked with white and black stones so ppl’ll remember which is which. then the other players take turns making sets of pieces themselves, which the person in charge marks as meeting the rule or not meeting the rule, accordingly. the object is to guess what the rule is by looking at all the pieces that’re out there. i was pretty good at it. then we played malarkey, where a question gets asked, and ppl get random cards, one of which has the answer marked on it, and everyone else gets a card that says "bluff".  then everyone has to give an answer to the question, and everyone votes for who they thought was right. i won.  :) we scored lots n lots of leftovers, too.  :)  am eatin a bunch of ‘em now.  :) it was a really good day. this post brought to you by jill’s need to have lots of posts to read, regardless of how mundane they be. jt

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Response:

Anyone try Dexadrine?

Question:

I took Dex for ADHD several years ago.  It worked very well, but with two side effects.  One was jaw clenching during the day.  I was continuosly moving my jaw back and forth, clenched with it popping. The other was trouble sleeping (duh!). The good side effect was the appetite suppression.  I lost quite a bit of weight.   I finally decided to stop taking it on my own.  I haven’t needed it since, although I still battle my ADHD. On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 20:09:53 -0800, DeNuptiis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<kpar…@occ.cccd.DELETETHIS.edu> wrote: >On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 06:47:30 -0500, J*O*d*Y ><"jodeez(TRASH)stuff"@sympatico.ca> wrote: >>As I quoted in my original email – "Quite a dangerous drug, IMO, and in my >>pharmacist’s opinion."  My pharmacist is not inexperienced and is not under >>the ageof 50, and is aware that I am 40+ years old. >>As I also quoted – "My concerns were discounted by the doctor though….  He >>said that it’s only dangerous in high doses (?)" >>It IS my pharmacist who claims an amphetamine isn’t "safe" enough, and my >>doctor who feels it’s okay in small quantities…. and the doctor who >>discounted my concerns when I asked him about the dangers, risks and side >>effects…… >>JP >>Ganishe wrote: >>> In article <3FC5D905.C7F48…@sympatico.ca>, >>>  J*O*d*Y <"jodeez(TRASH)stuff"@sympatico.ca> wrote: >>> > This is the end of the road….  I have been told that this is my final >>> > option.  Quite a dangerous drug, IMO, and in my pharmacist’s opinion. >>> > My concerns were discounted by the doctor though….  He said that it’s >>> > only dangerous in high doses (?) >>> > Waiting for my Ministry Of Transportation letter >>> > Jody >>> I wouldn’t trust anyone who claims an amphetamine isn’t "safe" enough. >>> It’s the most prescribed drug for ADHD and narcolepsy. >>> It’s approved in ages 3+ (Dexedrine 6+, Adderall 3+). >>> Your pharmacist most likely is either inexperienced and is under the age >>> of 50, or assumes that you are a toddler. If you are a toddler, please >>> remember that this has only been approved in kids a few months older >>> than you. >Can’t any drug be quite dangerous?  I mean, c’mon.  If it works, it >works.  If it doesn’t, don’t use it.  When my neuro suggested >Dexedrine, I asked him about the risks of addiction.  If you take a >handful, he told me, you’ll be jittery and uncomfortable.  And if >you’re an addictive person, he said, I guess you could become >addicted.  What he doesn’t know is that I’m an addictive person.  I >have orders for one 15mg Dexedrine sustained release in the morning, >and if I have a narcoleptic episode, I have a small supply of 5 mg >pills.  I take one or two if I’m nodding off in a meeting.  What’s >pleasantly surprised me is that with my history of addiction, I’ve >been taking my speed exactly as prescribed for nearly a year.  No >abuse.

Response:

On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 06:47:30 -0500, J*O*d*Y – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<"jodeez(TRASH)stuff"@sympatico.ca> wrote: >As I quoted in my original email – "Quite a dangerous drug, IMO, and in my >pharmacist’s opinion."  My pharmacist is not inexperienced and is not under >the ageof 50, and is aware that I am 40+ years old. >As I also quoted – "My concerns were discounted by the doctor though….  He >said that it’s only dangerous in high doses (?)" >It IS my pharmacist who claims an amphetamine isn’t "safe" enough, and my >doctor who feels it’s okay in small quantities…. and the doctor who >discounted my concerns when I asked him about the dangers, risks and side >effects…… >JP >Ganishe wrote: >> In article <3FC5D905.C7F48…@sympatico.ca>, >>  J*O*d*Y <"jodeez(TRASH)stuff"@sympatico.ca> wrote: >> > This is the end of the road….  I have been told that this is my final >> > option.  Quite a dangerous drug, IMO, and in my pharmacist’s opinion. >> > My concerns were discounted by the doctor though….  He said that it’s >> > only dangerous in high doses (?) >> > Waiting for my Ministry Of Transportation letter >> > Jody >> I wouldn’t trust anyone who claims an amphetamine isn’t "safe" enough. >> It’s the most prescribed drug for ADHD and narcolepsy. >> It’s approved in ages 3+ (Dexedrine 6+, Adderall 3+). >> Your pharmacist most likely is either inexperienced and is under the age >> of 50, or assumes that you are a toddler. If you are a toddler, please >> remember that this has only been approved in kids a few months older >> than you.

Can’t any drug be quite dangerous?  I mean, c’mon.  If it works, it works.  If it doesn’t, don’t use it.  When my neuro suggested Dexedrine, I asked him about the risks of addiction.  If you take a handful, he told me, you’ll be jittery and uncomfortable.  And if you’re an addictive person, he said, I guess you could become addicted.  What he doesn’t know is that I’m an addictive person.  I have orders for one 15mg Dexedrine sustained release in the morning, and if I have a narcoleptic episode, I have a small supply of 5 mg pills.  I take one or two if I’m nodding off in a meeting.  What’s pleasantly surprised me is that with my history of addiction, I’ve been taking my speed exactly as prescribed for nearly a year.  No abuse.

Response:

While Adderall may work better for some, and Dexadrine may work better for others, please don’t discount either my friend’s professional experience or my bad results with the med.  If the doctor knew what he was doing, based on the symptoms, he wouldn’t have had me on the damn med in the first place, and would have instead sent me for a sleep study (which would have saved me YEARS of grief). "Ganishe" <utopize…@yahoo-nospam.com> wrote in message

news:utopizen54-4FDB83.18443830112003@reader1.news.rcn.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In article <vYudnYrVfc7RjVeiRVn…@comcast.com>, >  "Gary Rimar" <piano…@mail.com> wrote: > > I had been prescribed for Dexadrine to handle my "ADHD" (which I didn’t > > have – instead I had sleep apnea).  I discussed this with a friend that is a > > psych nurse, and he was shocked that I would be prescribed this medication. > > Adderall is safer.  Dexadrine caused me some problems not I’m not > > comfortable discussing online. > > If it is the last best choice, then it is the last best choice.  It should > > be last. > Adderall is an amphetamine. Dexedrine is an amphetamine. They’re both > amphetamines. Psychiatric nurses are notorious for being anti-med, or > all-knowing. They’re the last people I’d ever trust (after pharmacists) > if my life depended on it. > If your friend doesn’t know Adderall and Dexedrine are both > amphetamines, that’s not too shocking. But it is, Adderall is simply a > brand name for d,l and s isomers of amphetamine, and Dexedrine d isomer > of amphetamine. > Some fare better on Adderall, but get adverse events that require the > use of Dexedrine instead. It can go either way. If you look at the side > effects of either, they’ll be identical. > Why do people trust pharmacists and nurses over M.D.’s?? Your M.D. > weights risks that neither nurses nor pharmacists will ever know of > against the medicine. > If things were as simple as "this med was safe for everyone" then M.D.’s > wouldn’t have to prescribe anything, and everything would be sold off > the shelf near the pickles and mustard. Will people stop saying "safe"? > It’s almost always taken out of context.

Response:

As I quoted in my original email – "Quite a dangerous drug, IMO, and in my pharmacist’s opinion."  My pharmacist is not inexperienced and is not under the ageof 50, and is aware that I am 40+ years old. As I also quoted – "My concerns were discounted by the doctor though….  He said that it’s only dangerous in high doses (?)" It IS my pharmacist who claims an amphetamine isn’t "safe" enough, and my doctor who feels it’s okay in small quantities…. and the doctor who discounted my concerns when I asked him about the dangers, risks and side effects…… JP – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ganishe wrote: > In article <3FC5D905.C7F48…@sympatico.ca>, >  J*O*d*Y <"jodeez(TRASH)stuff"@sympatico.ca> wrote: > > This is the end of the road….  I have been told that this is my final > > option.  Quite a dangerous drug, IMO, and in my pharmacist’s opinion. > > My concerns were discounted by the doctor though….  He said that it’s > > only dangerous in high doses (?) > > Waiting for my Ministry Of Transportation letter > > Jody > I wouldn’t trust anyone who claims an amphetamine isn’t "safe" enough. > It’s the most prescribed drug for ADHD and narcolepsy. > It’s approved in ages 3+ (Dexedrine 6+, Adderall 3+). > Your pharmacist most likely is either inexperienced and is under the age > of 50, or assumes that you are a toddler. If you are a toddler, please > remember that this has only been approved in kids a few months older > than you.

– "Sorry for the inconvenience, but I’ve inserted a spam-filter in my email address. When you hit ‘reply’ to email me, you must "Take out the TRASH…." or your email will bounce back to you…"

Response:

This is the end of the road….  I have been told that this is my final option.  Quite a dangerous drug, IMO, and in my pharmacist’s opinion. My concerns were discounted by the doctor though….  He said that it’s only dangerous in high doses (?) Waiting for my Ministry Of Transportation letter Jody — "Sorry for the inconvenience, but I’ve inserted a spam-filter in my email address. When you hit ‘reply’ to email me, you must "Take out the TRASH…." or your email will bounce back to you…"

Response:

In article <3FC5D905.C7F48…@sympatico.ca>,  J*O*d*Y <"jodeez(TRASH)stuff"@sympatico.ca> wrote: > This is the end of the road….  I have been told that this is my final > option.  Quite a dangerous drug, IMO, and in my pharmacist’s opinion. > My concerns were discounted by the doctor though….  He said that it’s > only dangerous in high doses (?) > Waiting for my Ministry Of Transportation letter > Jody

I wouldn’t trust anyone who claims an amphetamine isn’t "safe" enough. It’s the most prescribed drug for ADHD and narcolepsy. It’s approved in ages 3+ (Dexedrine 6+, Adderall 3+). Your pharmacist most likely is either inexperienced and is under the age of 50, or assumes that you are a toddler. If you are a toddler, please remember that this has only been approved in kids a few months older than you.

Response:

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 20:17:46 -0500, Ganishe wrote: >Your pharmacist most likely is either inexperienced and is under >the age of 50, or assumes that you are a toddler.

Or, alternatively, brainwashed and over the age of 50.  You get past a certain age, they generally frown upon "better living through chemistry." I hear it from my Mom concerning my psychotropics (from my 48 years of an overactive brain) and my father’s pain pills (from his 83 years of wear and tear). On the other hand, she takes tamoxifen and scowls about having to take medicine (she made it her first 77 years without any chronic meds, which stunned some of her doctors when she had the breast cancer surgery).

Response:

I had been prescribed for Dexadrine to handle my "ADHD" (which I didn’t have – instead I had sleep apnea).  I discussed this with a friend that is a psych nurse, and he was shocked that I would be prescribed this medication. Adderall is safer.  Dexadrine caused me some problems not I’m not comfortable discussing online. If it is the last best choice, then it is the last best choice.  It should be last. "Ganishe" <utopize…@yahoo-nospam.com> wrote in message

news:utopizen54-119CF6.20174629112003@reader1.news.rcn.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In article <3FC5D905.C7F48…@sympatico.ca>, >  J*O*d*Y <"jodeez(TRASH)stuff"@sympatico.ca> wrote: > > This is the end of the road….  I have been told that this is my final > > option.  Quite a dangerous drug, IMO, and in my pharmacist’s opinion. > > My concerns were discounted by the doctor though….  He said that it’s > > only dangerous in high doses (?) > > Waiting for my Ministry Of Transportation letter > > Jody > I wouldn’t trust anyone who claims an amphetamine isn’t "safe" enough. > It’s the most prescribed drug for ADHD and narcolepsy. > It’s approved in ages 3+ (Dexedrine 6+, Adderall 3+). > Your pharmacist most likely is either inexperienced and is under the age > of 50, or assumes that you are a toddler. If you are a toddler, please > remember that this has only been approved in kids a few months older > than you.

Response:

In article <vYudnYrVfc7RjVeiRVn…@comcast.com>,  "Gary Rimar" <piano…@mail.com> wrote: > I had been prescribed for Dexadrine to handle my "ADHD" (which I didn’t > have – instead I had sleep apnea).  I discussed this with a friend that is a > psych nurse, and he was shocked that I would be prescribed this medication. > Adderall is safer.  Dexadrine caused me some problems not I’m not > comfortable discussing online. > If it is the last best choice, then it is the last best choice.  It should > be last.

Adderall is an amphetamine. Dexedrine is an amphetamine. They’re both amphetamines. Psychiatric nurses are notorious for being anti-med, or all-knowing. They’re the last people I’d ever trust (after pharmacists) if my life depended on it. If your friend doesn’t know Adderall and Dexedrine are both amphetamines, that’s not too shocking. But it is, Adderall is simply a brand name for d,l and s isomers of amphetamine, and Dexedrine d isomer of amphetamine. Some fare better on Adderall, but get adverse events that require the use of Dexedrine instead. It can go either way. If you look at the side effects of either, they’ll be identical. Why do people trust pharmacists and nurses over M.D.’s?? Your M.D. weights risks that neither nurses nor pharmacists will ever know of against the medicine. If things were as simple as "this med was safe for everyone" then M.D.’s wouldn’t have to prescribe anything, and everything would be sold off the shelf near the pickles and mustard. Will people stop saying "safe"? It’s almost always taken out of context.

Response:

Respironics Comfort Full– is this the best?

Question:

After my titration study, my sleep tech gave me a Respironics ComfortFull full face mask and a ComfortClassic nasal mask, and told me to keep it on the d/l to anyone. So since I’ll be getting other masks when I have my respiratory therapist come to give me a CPAP– REMStar Plus w/ humidifer- is there something I should ask about in terms of masks, to try to see if I like it any better? I’ve heard there’s a Gel mask Respironics makes. How does the ComfortFull stack up to other masks? thanks! I hope my CPAP works soon, because my pulmonary specialist told my psychiatrist not to introduce new meds until I have a follow-up to my CPAP in early Dec. for "objectivity." He thinks I might have narcolepsy, but doesn’t want me treated for it until he rules out it’s not simply CPAP manifesting as narco (he says it’s possible, but wants to make sure by waiting to see how I respond to CPAP). I get my CPAP Mon. I see my pulmonary in 4 weeks. Is it even possible to know if CPAP works in 4 weeks to begin with?

Response:

On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 17:54:23 -0500, Ganishe wrote: >After my titration study, my sleep tech gave me a Respironics >ComfortFull full face mask and a ComfortClassic nasal mask, >and told me to keep it on the d/l to anyone. >I’ve heard there’s a Gel mask Respironics makes. How does the >ComfortFull stack up to other masks?

Full-face masks are generally not as comfortable as nose-only but this is a VERY variable thing. >I hope my CPAP works soon, because my pulmonary specialist told my >psychiatrist not to introduce new meds until I have a follow-up to my >CPAP in early Dec. for "objectivity." He thinks I might have narcolepsy,

I went from Ritalin trying to stay awake to "stay away from the Ritalin, you’re not sleeping!!!" on CPAP. >I get my CPAP Mon. I see my pulmonary in 4 weeks. Is it even possible to >know if CPAP works in 4 weeks to begin with?

If you’re lucky, you’ll know in four days — much less four weeks.

Response:

mask choice is a very individual thing, there is no best, just a "best for you" what’s perfect for you may be a nightmare for someone else. If you were prescribed a full face mask, it’s likely because you’re a mouth breather – there are only a few full face masks avaiable as far as i know, the respronics one I believe is the newest onthe market (again, that doesnt’ make it the best, just the newest). Try as many masks as you can, make sure you try them laying down with the machine running.  Get the right size, and make sure it’s adjusted correctly to prevent leaks (this usually means DON"T make it too tight) Good luck, and let us know how you go — Beth in Australia (I am not a medical professional and anything stated in my posts is my opinion only unless specified otherwise) =================== FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://talhost.net/sleep Newsgroup Archives http://talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles Remove my name to reply "Ganishe" <utopize…@yahoo-nospam.com> wrote in message

news:utopizen54-0EED7D.17542208112003@reader1.news.rcn.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> After my titration study, my sleep tech gave me a Respironics > ComfortFull full face mask and a ComfortClassic nasal mask, and told me > to keep it on the d/l to anyone. > So since I’ll be getting other masks when I have my respiratory > therapist come to give me a CPAP– REMStar Plus w/ humidifer- is there > something I should ask about in terms of masks, to try to see if I like > it any better? > I’ve heard there’s a Gel mask Respironics makes. How does the > ComfortFull stack up to other masks? > thanks! > I hope my CPAP works soon, because my pulmonary specialist told my > psychiatrist not to introduce new meds until I have a follow-up to my > CPAP in early Dec. for "objectivity." He thinks I might have narcolepsy, > but doesn’t want me treated for it until he rules out it’s not simply > CPAP manifesting as narco (he says it’s possible, but wants to make sure > by waiting to see how I respond to CPAP). > I get my CPAP Mon. I see my pulmonary in 4 weeks. Is it even possible to > know if CPAP works in 4 weeks to begin with?

Response:

ok, maybe i *am* manic

Question:

insomnia.  2nd night in a row.  i got about 2 hours of sleep sat night, and haven’t even bothered trying yet tonight (it’s 3:15 am here).  i got about 15 minutes worth of napping in this afternoon. hello?  jt’s body??  umm…we have narcolepsy.  it *will* start catching up with us if we don’t get some serious sleep. i’m not even sleepy.  i don’t feel tired.  i have no interest in going to sleep. maybe i’ll go take that mania quiz again, see what i come up with. ok…if i take wellb*trin for depression, and my pdoc upped my dose for a month (which worked GREAT!!!), but then i lost the next script, and have gone back to my previous dose (am taking my leftover meds) until i get up the energy to call my pdoc for another script (but, see, i was supposed to get it filled 2 or 3 weeks ago, and…) …would that possibly trigger a manic episode instead of a depressive one? i’ve also been writing a *lot* to the ng lately, in case no one noticed…*whistles innocently*…looks like ~4 symptoms of mania that i can see…(counting the suing thread as one, the off-color joking thread as another, the general increase in word output sorta feeling like a variant of "pressured speech", and now insomnia.  plus my continuing thread of "save the world", as noted by my preoccupation with "fixing" bruce…which i’m getting better at ignoring.  yay!) hmm…of course, taking the mania quiz *yet again* is a sign of ocd behav’s, so *clearly* i’ll have to take the ocd quiz again…..and i can’t take the mania quiz without taking the depression quiz…i just *love* online quizzes!!!  :-D l8r… jt — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa

Response:

OOOOHHHHHH YEAHHHHHHH!!!!! was WAAAAAYYYYY into the "severely manic" range (though i’ll always test as somewhat manic cuz i have pretty bad adhd). i couldn’t even *take* the depression inventory, cuz i couldn’t come down enough to think about being depressed. then i took the ADD screening, and practically maxed out all the questions.  i think i got my highest score ever on that quiz, and pretty close to my highest ever on the mania quiz. then i took another nifty quiz and discovered that dave and i have a l*ve relationship.  awwww….. and now i know that it’s 3:34 am, and i’m buzzing like a chainsaw, and what do you DO when you’re this manic??? this kinda started when bruce moved out, mostly cuz of the bathroom project.  i *REALLY NEED IT FINISHED!!!*  …but i’m at a planning stage right now which has been going NOWHERE for DAYS because i can’t focus my mind on it successfully. so…ok…is my anxiety and distress over needing it finished so badly and being deprived of some of the resources that were going to make it do-able for me causing me to be more manic/scattered? should i just call my pdoc tomorrow, tell her i need the script, and say "oh, btw…i just about maxed out a mania quiz online…any suggestions?) i can’t sleep. i need to go to sleep.  if only because dave sleeps better when i’m there.  awwwww….. seriously, it’s only been the last couple of manic phases that i’ve really started accepting that i’m manic:  what do i do? i’ll go try meditating.  should be a challenge… *sigh*  :) l8r…wish me luck!  with something!!! jt (hey…it’s actually JT!  hiya, JT!!! welcome back!) (*grins*)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – insomnia.  2nd night in a row.  i got about 2 hours of sleep sat night, and haven’t even bothered trying yet tonight (it’s 3:15 am here).  i got about 15 minutes worth of napping in this afternoon. hello?  jt’s body??  umm…we have narcolepsy.  it *will* start catching up with us if we don’t get some serious sleep. i’m not even sleepy.  i don’t feel tired.  i have no interest in going to sleep. maybe i’ll go take that mania quiz again, see what i come up with. ok…if i take wellb*trin for depression, and my pdoc upped my dose for a month (which worked GREAT!!!), but then i lost the next script, and have gone back to my previous dose (am taking my leftover meds) until i get up the energy to call my pdoc for another script (but, see, i was supposed to get it filled 2 or 3 weeks ago, and…) …would that possibly trigger a manic episode instead of a depressive one? i’ve also been writing a *lot* to the ng lately, in case no one noticed…*whistles innocently*…looks like ~4 symptoms of mania that i can see…(counting the suing thread as one, the off-color joking thread as another, the general increase in word output sorta feeling like a variant of "pressured speech", and now insomnia.  plus my continuing thread of "save the world", as noted by my preoccupation with "fixing" bruce…which i’m getting better at ignoring.  yay!) hmm…of course, taking the mania quiz *yet again* is a sign of ocd behav’s, so *clearly* i’ll have to take the ocd quiz again…..and i can’t take the mania quiz without taking the depression quiz…i just *love* online quizzes!!!  :-D l8r… jt — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa

Response:

i still feel kinda new to the whole idea that i actually have *real* manic phases.  oh, i have to call my pdoc! jt

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sounds way manic to me – but am surprised, because I thought you knew that – ????? D*pakote saved my life, at least in one way. Beauty. OOOOHHHHHH YEAHHHHHHH!!!!! was WAAAAAYYYYY into the "severely manic" range (though i’ll always test as somewhat manic cuz i have pretty bad adhd). i couldn’t even *take* the depression inventory, cuz i couldn’t come down enough to think about being depressed. then i took the ADD screening, and practically maxed out all the questions.  i think i got my highest score ever on that quiz, and pretty close to my highest ever on the mania quiz. then i took another nifty quiz and discovered that dave and i have a l*ve relationship.  awwww….. and now i know that it’s 3:34 am, and i’m buzzing like a chainsaw, and what do you DO when you’re this manic??? this kinda started when bruce moved out, mostly cuz of the bathroom project.  i *REALLY NEED IT FINISHED!!!* …but i’m at a planning stage right now which has been going NOWHERE for DAYS because i can’t focus my mind on it successfully. so…ok…is my anxiety and distress over needing it finished so badly and being deprived of some of the resources that were going to make it do-able for me causing me to be more manic/scattered? should i just call my pdoc tomorrow, tell her i need the script, and say "oh, btw…i just about maxed out a mania quiz online…any suggestions?) i can’t sleep. i need to go to sleep.  if only because dave sleeps better when i’m there.  awwwww….. seriously, it’s only been the last couple of manic phases that i’ve really started accepting that i’m manic:  what do i do? i’ll go try meditating.  should be a challenge… *sigh* l8r…wish me luck!  with something!!! jt (hey…it’s actually JT!  hiya, JT!!! welcome back!) (*grins*) insomnia.  2nd night in a row.  i got about 2 hours of sleep sat night, and haven’t even bothered trying yet tonight (it’s 3:15 am here).  i got about 15 minutes worth of napping in this afternoon. hello?  jt’s body??  umm…we have narcolepsy.  it *will* start catching up with us if we don’t get some serious sleep. i’m not even sleepy.  i don’t feel tired.  i have no interest in going to sleep. maybe i’ll go take that mania quiz again, see what i come up with. ok…if i take wellb*trin for depression, and my pdoc upped my dose for a month (which worked GREAT!!!), but then i lost the next script, and have gone back to my previous dose (am taking my leftover meds) until i get up the energy to call my pdoc for another script (but, see, i was supposed to get it filled 2 or 3 weeks ago, and…) …would that possibly trigger a manic episode instead of a depressive one? i’ve also been writing a *lot* to the ng lately, in case no one noticed…*whistles innocently*…looks like ~4 symptoms of mania that i can see…(counting the suing thread as one, the off-color joking thread as another, the general increase in word output sorta feeling like a variant of "pressured speech", and now insomnia.  plus my continuing thread of "save the world", as noted by my preoccupation with "fixing" bruce…which i’m getting better at ignoring.  yay!) hmm…of course, taking the mania quiz *yet again* is a sign of ocd behav’s, so *clearly* i’ll have to take the ocd quiz again…..and i can’t take the mania quiz without taking the depression quiz…i just *love* online quizzes!!!  :-D l8r… jt — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa

Response:

Hey JT and all, could i have a little bitty bit of that mania stuff? Could we share? I’m inert right now. Needing something… jane – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sounds way manic to me – but am surprised, because I thought you knew that – ????? D*pakote saved my life, at least in one way. Beauty. OOOOHHHHHH YEAHHHHHHH!!!!! was WAAAAAYYYYY into the "severely manic" range (though i’ll always test as somewhat manic cuz i have pretty bad adhd). i couldn’t even *take* the depression inventory, cuz i couldn’t come down enough to think about being depressed. then i took the ADD screening, and practically maxed out all the questions.  i think i got my highest score ever on that quiz, and pretty close to my highest ever on the mania quiz. then i took another nifty quiz and discovered that dave and i have a l*ve relationship.  awwww….. and now i know that it’s 3:34 am, and i’m buzzing like a chainsaw, and what do you DO when you’re this manic??? this kinda started when bruce moved out, mostly cuz of the bathroom project.  i *REALLY NEED IT FINISHED!!!*  …but i’m at a planning stage right now which has been going NOWHERE for DAYS because i can’t focus my mind on it successfully. so…ok…is my anxiety and distress over needing it finished so badly and being deprived of some of the resources that were going to make it do-able for me causing me to be more manic/scattered? should i just call my pdoc tomorrow, tell her i need the script, and say "oh, btw…i just about maxed out a mania quiz online…any suggestions?) i can’t sleep. i need to go to sleep.  if only because dave sleeps better when i’m there.  awwwww….. seriously, it’s only been the last couple of manic phases that i’ve really started accepting that i’m manic:  what do i do? i’ll go try meditating.  should be a challenge… *sigh*  :) l8r…wish me luck!  with something!!! jt (hey…it’s actually JT!  hiya, JT!!! welcome back!) (*grins*) insomnia.  2nd night in a row.  i got about 2 hours of sleep sat night, and haven’t even bothered trying yet tonight (it’s 3:15 am here).  i got about 15 minutes worth of napping in this afternoon. hello?  jt’s body??  umm…we have narcolepsy.  it *will* start catching up with us if we don’t get some serious sleep. i’m not even sleepy.  i don’t feel tired.  i have no interest in going to sleep. maybe i’ll go take that mania quiz again, see what i come up with. ok…if i take wellb*trin for depression, and my pdoc upped my dose for a month (which worked GREAT!!!), but then i lost the next script, and have gone back to my previous dose (am taking my leftover meds) until i get up the energy to call my pdoc for another script (but, see, i was supposed to get it filled 2 or 3 weeks ago, and…) …would that possibly trigger a manic episode instead of a depressive one? i’ve also been writing a *lot* to the ng lately, in case no one noticed…*whistles innocently*…looks like ~4 symptoms of mania that i can see…(counting the suing thread as one, the off-color joking thread as another, the general increase in word output sorta feeling like a variant of "pressured speech", and now insomnia.  plus my continuing thread of "save the world", as noted by my preoccupation with "fixing" bruce…which i’m getting better at ignoring.  yay!) hmm…of course, taking the mania quiz *yet again* is a sign of ocd behav’s, so *clearly* i’ll have to take the ocd quiz again…..and i can’t take the mania quiz without taking the depression quiz…i just *love* online quizzes!!!  :-D l8r… jt — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa

Response:

ok, if we put both of us into a great big shakenbake bag, and shake us up real good…maybe we’ll kinda balance each other out…ya think?  :-D jt

Hey JT and all, could i have a little bitty bit of that mania stuff? Could we share? I’m inert right now. Needing something… jane

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sounds way manic to me – but am surprised, because I thought you knew that – ????? D*pakote saved my life, at least in one way. Beauty. OOOOHHHHHH YEAHHHHHHH!!!!! was WAAAAAYYYYY into the "severely manic" range (though i’ll always test as somewhat manic cuz i have pretty bad adhd). i couldn’t even *take* the depression inventory, cuz i couldn’t come down enough to think about being depressed. then i took the ADD screening, and practically maxed out all the questions.  i think i got my highest score ever on that quiz, and pretty close to my highest ever on the mania quiz. then i took another nifty quiz and discovered that dave and i have a l*ve relationship.  awwww….. and now i know that it’s 3:34 am, and i’m buzzing like a chainsaw, and what do you DO when you’re this manic??? this kinda started when bruce moved out, mostly cuz of the bathroom project.  i *REALLY NEED IT FINISHED!!!* …but i’m at a planning stage right now which has been going NOWHERE for DAYS because i can’t focus my mind on it successfully. so…ok…is my anxiety and distress over needing it finished so badly and being deprived of some of the resources that were going to make it do-able for me causing me to be more manic/scattered? should i just call my pdoc tomorrow, tell her i need the script, and say "oh, btw…i just about maxed out a mania quiz online…any suggestions?) i can’t sleep. i need to go to sleep.  if only because dave sleeps better when i’m there.  awwwww….. seriously, it’s only been the last couple of manic phases that i’ve really started accepting that i’m manic: what do i do? i’ll go try meditating.  should be a challenge… *sigh*  :) l8r…wish me luck!  with something!!! jt (hey…it’s actually JT!  hiya, JT!!! welcome back!) (*grins*)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – insomnia.  2nd night in a row.  i got about 2 hours of sleep sat night, and haven’t even bothered trying yet tonight (it’s 3:15 am here).  i got about 15 minutes worth of napping in this afternoon. hello?  jt’s body??  umm…we have narcolepsy.  it *will* start catching up with us if we don’t get some serious sleep. i’m not even sleepy.  i don’t feel tired.  i have no interest in going to sleep. maybe i’ll go take that mania quiz again, see what i come up with. ok…if i take wellb*trin for depression, and my pdoc upped my dose for a month (which worked GREAT!!!), but then i lost the next script, and have gone back to my previous dose (am taking my leftover meds) until i get up the energy to call my pdoc for another script (but, see, i was supposed to get it filled 2 or 3 weeks ago, and…) …would that possibly trigger a manic episode instead of a depressive one? i’ve also been writing a *lot* to the ng lately, in case no one noticed…*whistles innocently*…looks like ~4 symptoms of mania that i can see…(counting the suing thread as one, the off-color joking thread as another, the general increase in word output sorta feeling like a variant of "pressured speech", and now insomnia.  plus my continuing thread of "save the world", as noted by my preoccupation with "fixing" bruce…which i’m getting better at ignoring.  yay!) hmm…of course, taking the mania quiz *yet again* is a sign of ocd behav’s, so *clearly* i’ll have to take the ocd quiz again…..and i can’t take the mania quiz without taking the depression quiz…i just *love* online quizzes!!!  :-D l8r… jt — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa

Response:

Yup. But manic comes in a lot of different varieties. They’re thinking about it differently these days. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i still feel kinda new to the whole idea that i actually have *real* manic phases.  oh, i have to call my pdoc! jt Sounds way manic to me – but am surprised, because I thought you knew that – ????? D*pakote saved my life, at least in one way. Beauty. OOOOHHHHHH YEAHHHHHHH!!!!! was WAAAAAYYYYY into the "severely manic" range (though i’ll always test as somewhat manic cuz i have pretty bad adhd). i couldn’t even *take* the depression inventory, cuz i couldn’t come down enough to think about being depressed. then i took the ADD screening, and practically maxed out all the questions.  i think i got my highest score ever on that quiz, and pretty close to my highest ever on the mania quiz. then i took another nifty quiz and discovered that dave and i have a l*ve relationship.  awwww….. and now i know that it’s 3:34 am, and i’m buzzing like a chainsaw, and what do you DO when you’re this manic??? this kinda started when bruce moved out, mostly cuz of the bathroom project.  i *REALLY NEED IT FINISHED!!!* …but i’m at a planning stage right now which has been going NOWHERE for DAYS because i can’t focus my mind on it successfully. so…ok…is my anxiety and distress over needing it finished so badly and being deprived of some of the resources that were going to make it do-able for me causing me to be more manic/scattered? should i just call my pdoc tomorrow, tell her i need the script, and say "oh, btw…i just about maxed out a mania quiz online…any suggestions?) i can’t sleep. i need to go to sleep.  if only because dave sleeps better when i’m there.  awwwww….. seriously, it’s only been the last couple of manic phases that i’ve really started accepting that i’m manic:  what do i do? i’ll go try meditating.  should be a challenge… *sigh* l8r…wish me luck!  with something!!! jt (hey…it’s actually JT!  hiya, JT!!! welcome back!) (*grins*) insomnia.  2nd night in a row.  i got about 2 hours of sleep sat night, and haven’t even bothered trying yet tonight (it’s 3:15 am here).  i got about 15 minutes worth of napping in this afternoon. hello?  jt’s body??  umm…we have narcolepsy.  it *will* start catching up with us if we don’t get some serious sleep. i’m not even sleepy.  i don’t feel tired.  i have no interest in going to sleep. maybe i’ll go take that mania quiz again, see what i come up with. ok…if i take wellb*trin for depression, and my pdoc upped my dose for a month (which worked GREAT!!!), but then i lost the next script, and have gone back to my previous dose (am taking my leftover meds) until i get up the energy to call my pdoc for another script (but, see, i was supposed to get it filled 2 or 3 weeks ago, and…) …would that possibly trigger a manic episode instead of a depressive one? i’ve also been writing a *lot* to the ng lately, in case no one noticed…*whistles innocently*…looks like ~4 symptoms of mania that i can see…(counting the suing thread as one, the off-color joking thread as another, the general increase in word output sorta feeling like a variant of "pressured speech", and now insomnia.  plus my continuing thread of "save the world", as noted by my preoccupation with "fixing" bruce…which i’m getting better at ignoring.  yay!) hmm…of course, taking the mania quiz *yet again* is a sign of ocd behav’s, so *clearly* i’ll have to take the ocd quiz again…..and i can’t take the mania quiz without taking the depression quiz…i just *love* online quizzes!!!  :-D l8r… jt — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa

Response:

Well, it could start a new dance craze, if nothing else. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ok, if we put both of us into a great big shakenbake bag, and shake us up real good…maybe we’ll kinda balance each other out…ya think?  :-D jt Hey JT and all, could i have a little bitty bit of that mania stuff? Could we share? I’m inert right now. Needing something… jane Sounds way manic to me – but am surprised, because I thought you knew that – ????? D*pakote saved my life, at least in one way. Beauty. OOOOHHHHHH YEAHHHHHHH!!!!! was WAAAAAYYYYY into the "severely manic" range (though i’ll always test as somewhat manic cuz i have pretty bad adhd). i couldn’t even *take* the depression inventory, cuz i couldn’t come down enough to think about being depressed. then i took the ADD screening, and practically maxed out all the questions.  i think i got my highest score ever on that quiz, and pretty close to my highest ever on the mania quiz. then i took another nifty quiz and discovered that dave and i have a l*ve relationship.  awwww….. and now i know that it’s 3:34 am, and i’m buzzing like a chainsaw, and what do you DO when you’re this manic??? this kinda started when bruce moved out, mostly cuz of the bathroom project.  i *REALLY NEED IT FINISHED!!!* …but i’m at a planning stage right now which has been going NOWHERE for DAYS because i can’t focus my mind on it successfully. so…ok…is my anxiety and distress over needing it finished so badly and being deprived of some of the resources that were going to make it do-able for me causing me to be more manic/scattered? should i just call my pdoc tomorrow, tell her i need the script, and say "oh, btw…i just about maxed out a mania quiz online…any suggestions?) i can’t sleep. i need to go to sleep.  if only because dave sleeps better when i’m there.  awwwww….. seriously, it’s only been the last couple of manic phases that i’ve really started accepting that i’m manic: what do i do? i’ll go try meditating.  should be a challenge… *sigh*  :) l8r…wish me luck!  with something!!! jt (hey…it’s actually JT!  hiya, JT!!! welcome back!) (*grins*) insomnia.  2nd night in a row.  i got about 2 hours of sleep sat night, and haven’t even bothered trying yet tonight (it’s 3:15 am here).  i got about 15 minutes worth of napping in this afternoon. hello?  jt’s body??  umm…we have narcolepsy.  it *will* start catching up with us if we don’t get some serious sleep. i’m not even sleepy.  i don’t feel tired.  i have no interest in going to sleep. maybe i’ll go take that mania quiz again, see what i come up with. ok…if i take wellb*trin for depression, and my pdoc upped my dose for a month (which worked GREAT!!!), but then i lost the next script, and have gone back to my previous dose (am taking my leftover meds) until i get up the energy to call my pdoc for another script (but, see, i was supposed to get it filled 2 or 3 weeks ago, and…) …would that possibly trigger a manic episode instead of a depressive one? i’ve also been writing a *lot* to the ng lately, in case no one noticed…*whistles innocently*…looks like ~4 symptoms of mania that i can see…(counting the suing thread as one, the off-color joking thread as another, the general increase in word output sorta feeling like a variant of "pressured speech", and now insomnia.  plus my continuing thread of "save the world", as noted by my preoccupation with "fixing" bruce…which i’m getting better at ignoring.  yay!) hmm…of course, taking the mania quiz *yet again* is a sign of ocd behav’s, so *clearly* i’ll have to take the ocd quiz again…..and i can’t take the mania quiz without taking the depression quiz…i just *love* online quizzes!!!  :-D l8r… jt — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa

Response:

Kewl idea jt!!! LOL. Feeling a smidge better today, went to play badminton this afternoon and played well. Do not feel so much like trucks have been running over me, or like I’ve been walloped by a big plank. Still very stiff, though, from muscle tension yesterday and some today. tpy fallout. I’m glad you are here. You are a good friend. jane – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ok, if we put both of us into a great big shakenbake bag, and shake us up real good…maybe we’ll kinda balance each other out…ya think?  :-D jt Hey JT and all, could i have a little bitty bit of that  mania stuff? Could we share? I’m inert right now. Needing something…  jane Sounds way manic to me – but am surprised, because I  thought you knew that – ????? D*pakote saved my life, at least in one  way. Beauty. OOOOHHHHHH YEAHHHHHHH!!!!! was WAAAAAYYYYY into the "severely manic" range  (though i’ll always test as somewhat manic cuz i have pretty bad  adhd). i couldn’t even *take* the depression inventory, cuz i couldn’t come down enough to think about being  depressed. then i took the ADD screening, and practically maxed  out all the questions.  i think i got my highest score ever on  that quiz, and pretty close to my highest ever on the mania  quiz. then i took another nifty quiz and discovered that  dave and i have a l*ve relationship.  awwww….. and now i know that it’s 3:34 am, and i’m buzzing like  a chainsaw, and what do you DO when you’re this manic??? this kinda started when bruce moved out, mostly cuz of  the bathroom project.  i *REALLY NEED IT FINISHED!!!*  …but i’m at a planning stage right now which has been going NOWHERE for DAYS because i can’t focus my mind on it successfully. so…ok…is my anxiety and distress over needing it finished so badly and being deprived of some of the resources that were going to make it do-able for me  causing me to be more manic/scattered? should i just call my pdoc tomorrow, tell her i need  the script, and say "oh, btw…i just about maxed out a  mania quiz online…any suggestions?) i can’t sleep. i need to go to sleep.  if only because dave sleeps  better when i’m there.  awwwww….. seriously, it’s only been the last couple of manic  phases that i’ve really started accepting that i’m manic:  what do i do? i’ll go try meditating.  should be a challenge…  *sigh*  :) l8r…wish me luck!  with something!!! jt (hey…it’s actually JT!  hiya, JT!!! welcome  back!) (*grins*) insomnia.  2nd night in a row.  i got about 2 hours of sleep sat night, and haven’t even bothered trying yet  tonight (it’s 3:15 am here).  i got about 15 minutes worth of napping in this afternoon. hello?  jt’s body??  umm…we have narcolepsy.  it  *will* start catching up with us if we don’t get some serious sleep. i’m not even sleepy.  i don’t feel tired.  i have no interest in going to sleep. maybe i’ll go take that mania quiz again, see what i  come up with. ok…if i take wellb*trin for depression, and my pdoc upped my dose for a month (which worked GREAT!!!), but then  i lost the next script, and have gone back to my previous  dose (am taking my leftover meds) until i get up the energy to  call my pdoc for another script (but, see, i was supposed  to get it filled 2 or 3 weeks ago, and…) …would that  possibly trigger a manic episode instead of a depressive one? i’ve also been writing a *lot* to the ng lately, in  case no one noticed…*whistles innocently*…looks like ~4 symptoms of mania that i can see…(counting the suing thread  as one, the off-color joking thread as another, the general increase in word output sorta feeling like a variant of  "pressured speech", and now insomnia.  plus my continuing thread  of "save the world", as noted by my preoccupation with "fixing" bruce…which i’m getting better at ignoring.  yay!) hmm…of course, taking the mania quiz *yet again* is  a sign of ocd behav’s, so *clearly* i’ll have to take the ocd quiz again…..and i can’t take the mania quiz without  taking the depression quiz…i just *love* online quizzes!!!  :-D l8r… jt — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly  mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which  is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and  well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa

Response:

Ya put the shakeybakey here, ya put the shakeybakey there, you give a little twirl and pour it in your hair, you do the shakeybakey til you think you’re gonna fly, shakeybakey to the sky!  YaY!!! <G jane – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, it could start a new dance craze, if nothing else. Beauty. ok, if we put both of us into a great big shakenbake bag, and shake us up real good…maybe we’ll kinda balance each other out…ya think?  :-D jt Hey JT and all, could i have a little bitty bit of that mania stuff? Could we share? I’m inert right now. Needing something… jane Sounds way manic to me – but am surprised, because I thought you knew that – ????? D*pakote saved my life, at least in one way. Beauty. OOOOHHHHHH YEAHHHHHHH!!!!! was WAAAAAYYYYY into the "severely manic" range (though i’ll always test as somewhat manic cuz i have pretty bad adhd). i couldn’t even *take* the depression inventory, cuz i couldn’t come down enough to think about being depressed. then i took the ADD screening, and practically maxed out all the questions.  i think i got my highest score ever on that quiz, and pretty close to my highest ever on the mania quiz. then i took another nifty quiz and discovered that dave and i have a l*ve relationship.  awwww….. and now i know that it’s 3:34 am, and i’m buzzing like a chainsaw, and what do you DO when you’re this manic??? this kinda started when bruce moved out, mostly cuz of the bathroom project.  i *REALLY NEED IT FINISHED!!!* …but i’m at a planning stage right now which has been going NOWHERE for DAYS because i can’t focus my mind on it successfully. so…ok…is my anxiety and distress over needing it finished so badly and being deprived of some of the resources that were going to make it do-able for me causing me to be more manic/scattered? should i just call my pdoc tomorrow, tell her i need the script, and say "oh, btw…i just about maxed out a mania quiz online…any suggestions?) i can’t sleep. i need to go to sleep.  if only because dave sleeps better when i’m there.  awwwww….. seriously, it’s only been the last couple of manic phases that i’ve really started accepting that i’m manic: what do i do? i’ll go try meditating.  should be a challenge… *sigh*  :) l8r…wish me luck!  with something!!! jt (hey…it’s actually JT!  hiya, JT!!! welcome back!) (*grins*) insomnia.  2nd night in a row.  i got about 2 hours of sleep sat night, and haven’t even bothered trying yet tonight (it’s 3:15 am here).  i got about 15 minutes worth of napping in this afternoon. hello?  jt’s body??  umm…we have narcolepsy.  it *will* start catching up with us if we don’t get some serious sleep. i’m not even sleepy.  i don’t feel tired.  i have no interest in going to sleep. maybe i’ll go take that mania quiz again, see what i come up with. ok…if i take wellb*trin for depression, and my pdoc upped my dose for a month (which worked GREAT!!!), but then i lost the next script, and have gone back to my previous dose (am taking my leftover meds) until i get up the energy to call my pdoc for another script (but, see, i was supposed to get it filled 2 or 3 weeks ago, and…) …would that possibly trigger a manic episode instead of a depressive one? i’ve also been writing a *lot* to the ng lately, in case no one noticed…*whistles innocently*…looks like ~4 symptoms of mania that i can see…(counting the suing thread as one, the off-color joking thread as another, the general increase in word output sorta feeling like a variant of "pressured speech", and now insomnia.  plus my continuing thread of "save the world", as noted by my preoccupation with "fixing" bruce…which i’m getting better at ignoring.  yay!) hmm…of course, taking the mania quiz *yet again* is a sign of ocd behav’s, so *clearly* i’ll have to take the ocd quiz again…..and i can’t take the mania quiz without taking the depression quiz…i just *love* online quizzes!!!  :-D l8r… jt — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa

Response:

Sounds way manic to me – but am surprised, because I thought you knew that – ????? D*pakote saved my life, at least in one way. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OOOOHHHHHH YEAHHHHHHH!!!!! was WAAAAAYYYYY into the "severely manic" range (though i’ll always test as somewhat manic cuz i have pretty bad adhd). i couldn’t even *take* the depression inventory, cuz i couldn’t come down enough to think about being depressed. then i took the ADD screening, and practically maxed out all the questions.  i think i got my highest score ever on that quiz, and pretty close to my highest ever on the mania quiz. then i took another nifty quiz and discovered that dave and i have a l*ve relationship.  awwww….. and now i know that it’s 3:34 am, and i’m buzzing like a chainsaw, and what do you DO when you’re this manic??? this kinda started when bruce moved out, mostly cuz of the bathroom project.  i *REALLY NEED IT FINISHED!!!*  …but i’m at a planning stage right now which has been going NOWHERE for DAYS because i can’t focus my mind on it successfully. so…ok…is my anxiety and distress over needing it finished so badly and being deprived of some of the resources that were going to make it do-able for me causing me to be more manic/scattered? should i just call my pdoc tomorrow, tell her i need the script, and say "oh, btw…i just about maxed out a mania quiz online…any suggestions?) i can’t sleep. i need to go to sleep.  if only because dave sleeps better when i’m there.  awwwww….. seriously, it’s only been the last couple of manic phases that i’ve really started accepting that i’m manic:  what do i do? i’ll go try meditating.  should be a challenge… *sigh*  :) l8r…wish me luck!  with something!!! jt (hey…it’s actually JT!  hiya, JT!!! welcome back!) (*grins*) insomnia.  2nd night in a row.  i got about 2 hours of sleep sat night, and haven’t even bothered trying yet tonight (it’s 3:15 am here).  i got about 15 minutes worth of napping in this afternoon. hello?  jt’s body??  umm…we have narcolepsy.  it *will* start catching up with us if we don’t get some serious sleep. i’m not even sleepy.  i don’t feel tired.  i have no interest in going to sleep. maybe i’ll go take that mania quiz again, see what i come up with. ok…if i take wellb*trin for depression, and my pdoc upped my dose for a month (which worked GREAT!!!), but then i lost the next script, and have gone back to my previous dose (am taking my leftover meds) until i get up the energy to call my pdoc for another script (but, see, i was supposed to get it filled 2 or 3 weeks ago, and…) …would that possibly trigger a manic episode instead of a depressive one? i’ve also been writing a *lot* to the ng lately, in case no one noticed…*whistles innocently*…looks like ~4 symptoms of mania that i can see…(counting the suing thread as one, the off-color joking thread as another, the general increase in word output sorta feeling like a variant of "pressured speech", and now insomnia.  plus my continuing thread of "save the world", as noted by my preoccupation with "fixing" bruce…which i’m getting better at ignoring.  yay!) hmm…of course, taking the mania quiz *yet again* is a sign of ocd behav’s, so *clearly* i’ll have to take the ocd quiz again…..and i can’t take the mania quiz without taking the depression quiz…i just *love* online quizzes!!!  :-D l8r… jt — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa

Response:

*sleepysleepy mind fuzzyyyyy* i wonder if part of me feeling so warm and fuzzy and A-ok is because this is the first day i’ve taken the gabitrl at the new-and-improved higher dose?  it would certainly explain why i don’t feel AT ALL anxious. i just feel kinda happy and fuzzy and nice.  comfy.  like warm blankies when you’re little. why did i always have a big problem with the idea of taking meds for anxiety??? oh yeah, cuz i feel safer scared. but maybe that’s just cuz i never felt not-scared, so i didn’t know that not-scared feels safer too!  :-D that feels a little sad, but it’s kinda a not-close-by kinda sad. oh, by the way, Beauty, dave read the email i sent you.  i don’t like it when he reads my email… but it’s ok.  i don’t write stuff i’m not willing to defend. *fond happy comfy thoughts* *drifts off into a happy haze* Jen, for jt

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive: yes I’ve been on D*pakote and W*llbutrin for about 8 years but have decided that the W. has been messing up my sleep, and have tapered it just about to zero – will be off it in another week or so. Must say: have been sleeping better. MD wants to start Eff*xor, but I am tempted to let us see how we do w/just D*pakote (and the zillion other things) for a while, to see if we think we need to add something like Eff*xor. Beauty.

Response:

i like having you as my friend, too.  *shy smile*  *has image of walking quietly with her friend jane, hand in hand, swinging them back and forth a bit, and smiling cuz it feels warm and nice* Jen, for jt (with dawnna, too)

Kewl idea jt!!! LOL. Feeling a smidge better today, went to play badminton this afternoon and played well. Do not feel so much like trucks have been running over me, or like I’ve been walloped by a big plank. Still very stiff, though, from muscle tension yesterday and some today. tpy fallout. I’m glad you are here. You are a good friend. jane

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ok, if we put both of us into a great big shakenbake bag, and shake us up real good…maybe we’ll kinda balance each other out…ya think?  :-D jt Hey JT and all, could i have a little bitty bit of that  mania stuff? Could we share? I’m inert right now. Needing something…  jane Sounds way manic to me – but am surprised, because I  thought you knew that – ????? D*pakote saved my life, at least in one  way. Beauty. OOOOHHHHHH YEAHHHHHHH!!!!! was WAAAAAYYYYY into the "severely manic" range  (though i’ll always test as somewhat manic cuz i have pretty bad  adhd). i couldn’t even *take* the depression inventory, cuz i couldn’t come down enough to think about being  depressed. then i took the ADD screening, and practically maxed  out all the questions.  i think i got my highest score ever on  that quiz, and pretty close to my highest ever on the mania  quiz. then i took another nifty quiz and discovered that  dave and i have a l*ve relationship.  awwww….. and now i know that it’s 3:34 am, and i’m buzzing like  a chainsaw, and what do you DO when you’re this manic??? this kinda started when bruce moved out, mostly cuz of  the bathroom project.  i *REALLY NEED IT FINISHED!!!*  …but i’m at a planning stage right now which has been going NOWHERE for DAYS because i can’t focus my mind on it successfully. so…ok…is my anxiety and distress over needing it finished so badly and being deprived of some of the resources that were going to make it do-able for me  causing me to be more manic/scattered? should i just call my pdoc tomorrow, tell her i need  the script, and say "oh, btw…i just about maxed out a  mania quiz online…any suggestions?) i can’t sleep. i need to go to sleep.  if only because dave sleeps  better when i’m there.  awwwww….. seriously, it’s only been the last couple of manic  phases that i’ve really started accepting that i’m manic:  what do i do? i’ll go try meditating.  should be a challenge…  *sigh*  :) l8r…wish me luck!  with something!!! jt (hey…it’s actually JT!  hiya, JT!!! welcome  back!) (*grins*) message

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – insomnia.  2nd night in a row.  i got about 2 hours of sleep sat night, and haven’t even bothered trying yet  tonight (it’s 3:15 am here).  i got about 15 minutes worth of napping in this afternoon. hello?  jt’s body??  umm…we have narcolepsy.  it  *will* start catching up with us if we don’t get some serious sleep. i’m not even sleepy.  i don’t feel tired.  i have no interest in going to sleep. maybe i’ll go take that mania quiz again, see what i  come up with. ok…if i take wellb*trin for depression, and my pdoc upped my dose for a month (which worked GREAT!!!), but then  i lost the next script, and have gone back to my previous  dose (am taking my leftover meds) until i get up the energy to  call my pdoc for another script (but, see, i was supposed  to get it filled 2 or 3 weeks ago, and…) …would that  possibly trigger a manic episode instead of a depressive one? i’ve also been writing a *lot* to the ng lately, in  case no one noticed…*whistles innocently*…looks like ~4 symptoms of mania that i can see…(counting the suing thread  as one, the off-color joking thread as another, the general increase in word output sorta feeling like a variant of  "pressured speech", and now insomnia.  plus my continuing thread  of "save the world", as noted by my preoccupation with "fixing" bruce…which i’m getting better at ignoring. yay!) hmm…of course, taking the mania quiz *yet again* is  a sign of ocd behav’s, so *clearly* i’ll have to take the ocd quiz again…..and i can’t take the mania quiz without  taking the depression quiz…i just *love* online quizzes!!! l8r… jt — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly  mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which  is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and  well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa

Response:

Dear jt – It makes sense that you felt safer being scared: you were on hyper-alert. It’s like when a guard dozes off on watch – s/he wakes up w/a start of alarm (and, w/good fortune, not because something bad has happened to cause the awakening, just because the guard was on guard just in case). Now that your rational self "knows" that you are safe, it’s still hard to put those irrational fears and safety guards off trigger. It makes perfect sense to me. I hope it continues to feel good and comfortable – and restful. (I am neither comfortable nor rested.) Best – Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – *sleepysleepy mind fuzzyyyyy* i wonder if part of me feeling so warm and fuzzy and A-ok is because this is the first day i’ve taken the gabitrl at the new-and-improved higher dose?  it would certainly explain why i don’t feel AT ALL anxious. i just feel kinda happy and fuzzy and nice.  comfy.  like warm blankies when you’re little. why did i always have a big problem with the idea of taking meds for anxiety??? oh yeah, cuz i feel safer scared. but maybe that’s just cuz i never felt not-scared, so i didn’t know that not-scared feels safer too!  :-D that feels a little sad, but it’s kinda a not-close-by kinda sad. oh, by the way, Beauty, dave read the email i sent you.  i don’t like it when he reads my email… but it’s ok.  i don’t write stuff i’m not willing to defend. *fond happy comfy thoughts* *drifts off into a happy haze* Jen, for jt x-no-archive: yes I’ve been on D*pakote and W*llbutrin for about 8 years but have decided that the W. has been messing up my sleep, and have tapered it just about to zero – will be off it in another week or so. Must say: have been sleeping better. MD wants to start Eff*xor, but I am tempted to let us see how we do w/just D*pakote (and the zillion other things) for a while, to see if we think we need to add something like Eff*xor. Beauty.

Response:

has to be glittery. Can it be glittery? Yayaaayyyyyy! You are the best!!!! (Might just suggest it to my karate teacher when we do our Halloween party – as a variation, because we do all those stupid dances that they think are so fun at parties, and this one would be great – *esp.* if people got given little hands full of glitter to fling around. He’d prolly nix it because we’d have to vacuum it all up afterward . . . Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ya put the shakeybakey here, ya put the shakeybakey there, you give a little twirl and pour it in your hair, you do the shakeybakey til you think you’re gonna fly, shakeybakey to the sky!  YaY!!! <G jane Well, it could start a new dance craze, if nothing else. Beauty. ok, if we put both of us into a great big shakenbake bag, and shake us up real good…maybe we’ll kinda balance each other out…ya think?  :-D jt Hey JT and all, could i have a little bitty bit of that mania stuff? Could we share? I’m inert right now. Needing something… jane Sounds way manic to me – but am surprised, because I thought you knew that – ????? D*pakote saved my life, at least in one way. Beauty. OOOOHHHHHH YEAHHHHHHH!!!!! was WAAAAAYYYYY into the "severely manic" range (though i’ll always test as somewhat manic cuz i have pretty bad adhd). i couldn’t even *take* the depression inventory, cuz i couldn’t come down enough to think about being depressed. then i took the ADD screening, and practically maxed out all the questions.  i think i got my highest score ever on that quiz, and pretty close to my highest ever on the mania quiz. then i took another nifty quiz and discovered that dave and i have a l*ve relationship.  awwww….. and now i know that it’s 3:34 am, and i’m buzzing like a chainsaw, and what do you DO when you’re this manic??? this kinda started when bruce moved out, mostly cuz of the bathroom project.  i *REALLY NEED IT FINISHED!!!* …but i’m at a planning stage right now which has been going NOWHERE for DAYS because i can’t focus my mind on it successfully. so…ok…is my anxiety and distress over needing it finished so badly and being deprived of some of the resources that were going to make it do-able for me causing me to be more manic/scattered? should i just call my pdoc tomorrow, tell her i need the script, and say "oh, btw…i just about maxed out a mania quiz online…any suggestions?) i can’t sleep. i need to go to sleep.  if only because dave sleeps better when i’m there.  awwwww….. seriously, it’s only been the last couple of manic phases that i’ve really started accepting that i’m manic: what do i do? i’ll go try meditating.  should be a challenge… *sigh*  :) l8r…wish me luck!  with something!!! jt (hey…it’s actually JT!  hiya, JT!!! welcome back!) (*grins*) insomnia.  2nd night in a row.  i got about 2 hours of sleep sat night, and haven’t even bothered trying yet tonight (it’s 3:15 am here).  i got about 15 minutes worth of napping in this afternoon. hello?  jt’s body??  umm…we have narcolepsy.  it *will* start catching up with us if we don’t get some serious sleep. i’m not even sleepy.  i don’t feel tired.  i have no interest in going to sleep. maybe i’ll go take that mania quiz again, see what i come up with. ok…if i take wellb*trin for depression, and my pdoc upped my dose for a month (which worked GREAT!!!), but then i lost the next script, and have gone back to my previous dose (am taking my leftover meds) until i get up the energy to call my pdoc for another script (but, see, i was supposed to get it filled 2 or 3 weeks ago, and…) …would that possibly trigger a manic episode instead of a depressive one? i’ve also been writing a *lot* to the ng lately, in case no one noticed…*whistles innocently*…looks like ~4 symptoms of mania that i can see…(counting the suing thread as one, the off-color joking thread as another, the general increase in word output sorta feeling like a variant of "pressured speech", and now insomnia.  plus my continuing thread of "save the world", as noted by my preoccupation with "fixing" bruce…which i’m getting better at ignoring.  yay!) hmm…of course, taking the mania quiz *yet again* is a sign of ocd behav’s, so *clearly* i’ll have to take the ocd quiz again…..and i can’t take the mania quiz without taking the depression quiz…i just *love* online quizzes!!!  :-D l8r… jt — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa

Response:

Humpphhhh… I wanted it to be bigger than the chicken dance! LOL jane – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – wow!  that’s *really* good, jane! this is gonna be bigger than the macarena, i just know it. jt (dawnna ) Ya put the shakeybakey here, ya put the shakeybakey there,  you give a little twirl and pour it in your hair, you do the  shakeybakey til you think you’re gonna fly, shakeybakey to the sky!  YaY!!!  <G jane Well, it could start a new dance craze, if nothing else. Beauty. ok, if we put both of us into a great big shakenbake  bag, and shake us up real good…maybe we’ll kinda balance  each other out…ya think?  :-D jt Hey JT and all, could i have a little bitty bit of  that mania stuff? Could we share? I’m inert right now. Needing  something… jane Sounds way manic to me – but am surprised, because I thought you knew that – ????? D*pakote saved my life, at least in one way. Beauty. OOOOHHHHHH YEAHHHHHHH!!!!! was WAAAAAYYYYY into the "severely manic" range (though i’ll always test as somewhat manic cuz i have pretty bad adhd). i couldn’t even *take* the depression inventory, cuz  i couldn’t come down enough to think about being depressed. then i took the ADD screening, and practically maxed out all the questions.  i think i got my highest score ever  on that quiz, and pretty close to my highest ever on the  mania quiz. then i took another nifty quiz and discovered that dave and i have a l*ve relationship.  awwww….. and now i know that it’s 3:34 am, and i’m buzzing  like a chainsaw, and what do you DO when you’re this  manic??? this kinda started when bruce moved out, mostly cuz  of the bathroom project.  i *REALLY NEED IT FINISHED!!!* …but i’m at a planning stage right now which has been  going NOWHERE for DAYS because i can’t focus my mind on it successfully. so…ok…is my anxiety and distress over needing it finished so badly and being deprived of some of the resources that were going to make it do-able for me causing me to be more manic/scattered? should i just call my pdoc tomorrow, tell her i need the script, and say "oh, btw…i just about maxed out a mania quiz online…any suggestions?) i can’t sleep. i need to go to sleep.  if only because dave sleeps better when i’m there.  awwwww….. seriously, it’s only been the last couple of manic phases that i’ve really started accepting that i’m manic: what do i do? i’ll go try meditating.  should be a challenge… *sigh*  :) l8r…wish me luck!  with something!!! jt (hey…it’s actually JT!  hiya, JT!!! welcome back!) (*grins*)  message insomnia.  2nd night in a row.  i got about 2 hours  of sleep sat night, and haven’t even bothered trying yet tonight (it’s 3:15 am here).  i got about 15 minutes worth  of napping in this afternoon. hello?  jt’s body??  umm…we have narcolepsy.  it *will* start catching up with us if we don’t get some  serious sleep. i’m not even sleepy.  i don’t feel tired.  i have  no interest in going to sleep. maybe i’ll go take that mania quiz again, see what  i come up with. ok…if i take wellb*trin for depression, and my  pdoc upped my dose for a month (which worked GREAT!!!), but  then i lost the next script, and have gone back to my previous dose (am taking my leftover meds) until i get up the energy  to call my pdoc for another script (but, see, i was  supposed to get it filled 2 or 3 weeks ago, and…) …would that possibly trigger a manic episode instead of a depressive  one? i’ve also been writing a *lot* to the ng lately, in case no one noticed…*whistles innocently*…looks like ~4 symptoms of mania that i can see…(counting the suing  thread as one, the off-color joking thread as another, the general increase in word output sorta feeling like a variant of "pressured speech", and now insomnia.  plus my continuing  thread of "save the world", as noted by my preoccupation with "fixing" bruce…which i’m getting better at ignoring.  yay!) hmm…of course, taking the mania quiz *yet again*  is a sign of ocd behav’s, so *clearly* i’ll have to take the  ocd quiz again…..and i can’t take the mania quiz without taking the depression quiz…i just *love* online quizzes!!!  -D l8r… jt — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear —  which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa

Response:

DEfinitely! Glitter is an absolute!!! And  assign the vacuuming to someone who doesn’t mind. It wouldn’t take long to clean up, really. Long as I didn’t have to do it. Or… you could give everyone a loop of tape, sticky side out, and they could stickyside it up!!! can you imagine everyone patting the floor with their tapey loop! <G You could use that metallic confetti stuff, too, but I thing glitter would be best myself. Dumbada dumbada dumbada dumb.. dumbada dumb dumb dumb… kind of ambling off toward the big easy chair where I left my book now…. jane – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – has to be glittery. Can it be glittery? Yayaaayyyyyy! You are the best!!!! (Might just suggest it to my karate teacher when we do our Halloween party – as a variation, because we do all those stupid dances that they think are so fun at parties, and this one would be great – *esp.* if people got given little hands full of glitter to fling around. He’d prolly nix it because we’d have to vacuum it all up afterward . . . Beauty. Ya put the shakeybakey here, ya put the shakeybakey there, you give a little twirl and pour it in your hair, you do the shakeybakey til you think you’re gonna fly, shakeybakey to the sky!  YaY!!! <G jane Well, it could start a new dance craze, if nothing else. Beauty. ok, if we put both of us into a great big shakenbake bag, and shake us up real good…maybe we’ll kinda balance each other out…ya think?  :-D jt Hey JT and all, could i have a little bitty bit of that mania stuff? Could we share? I’m inert right now. Needing something… jane Sounds way manic to me – but am surprised, because I thought you knew that – ????? D*pakote saved my life, at least in one way. Beauty. OOOOHHHHHH YEAHHHHHHH!!!!! was WAAAAAYYYYY into the "severely manic" range (though i’ll always test as somewhat manic cuz i have pretty bad adhd). i couldn’t even *take* the depression inventory, cuz i couldn’t come down enough to think about being depressed. then i took the ADD screening, and practically maxed out all the questions.  i think i got my highest score ever on that quiz, and pretty close to my highest ever on the mania quiz. then i took another nifty quiz and discovered that dave and i have a l*ve relationship.  awwww….. and now i know that it’s 3:34 am, and i’m buzzing like a chainsaw, and what do you DO when you’re this manic??? this kinda started when bruce moved out, mostly cuz of the bathroom project.  i *REALLY NEED IT FINISHED!!!* …but i’m at a planning stage right now which has been going NOWHERE for DAYS because i can’t focus my mind on it successfully. so…ok…is my anxiety and distress over needing it finished so badly and being deprived of some of the resources that were going to make it do-able for me causing me to be more manic/scattered? should i just call my pdoc tomorrow, tell her i need the script, and say "oh, btw…i just about maxed out a mania quiz online…any suggestions?) i can’t sleep. i need to go to sleep.  if only because dave sleeps better when i’m there.  awwwww….. seriously, it’s only been the last couple of manic phases that i’ve really started accepting that i’m manic: what do i do? i’ll go try meditating.  should be a challenge… *sigh*  :) l8r…wish me luck!  with something!!! jt (hey…it’s actually JT!  hiya, JT!!! welcome back!) (*grins*) insomnia.  2nd night in a row.  i got about 2 hours of sleep sat night, and haven’t even bothered trying yet tonight (it’s 3:15 am here).  i got about 15 minutes worth of napping in this afternoon. hello?  jt’s body??  umm…we have narcolepsy.  it *will* start catching up with us if we don’t get some serious sleep. i’m not even sleepy.  i don’t feel tired.  i have no interest in going to sleep. maybe i’ll go take that mania quiz again, see what i come up with. ok…if i take wellb*trin for depression, and my pdoc upped my dose for a month (which worked GREAT!!!), but then i lost the next script, and have gone back to my previous dose (am taking my leftover meds) until i get up the energy to call my pdoc for another script (but, see, i was supposed to get it filled 2 or 3 weeks ago, and…) …would that possibly trigger a manic episode instead of a depressive one? i’ve also been writing a *lot* to the ng lately, in case no one noticed…*whistles innocently*…looks like ~4 symptoms of mania that i can see…(counting the suing thread as one, the off-color joking thread as another, the general increase in word output sorta feeling like a variant of "pressured speech", and now insomnia.  plus my continuing thread of "save the world", as noted by my preoccupation with "fixing" bruce…which i’m getting better at ignoring.  yay!) hmm…of course, taking the mania quiz *yet again* is a sign of ocd behav’s, so *clearly* i’ll have to take the ocd quiz again…..and i can’t take the mania quiz without taking the depression quiz…i just *love* online quizzes!!!  :-D l8r… jt — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa

Response:

Oh it *definitely* will out-do that one. I *h*te* the wiggly egg-laying part. Oh, and the tune annoys the liver out of me. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Humpphhhh… I wanted it to be bigger than the chicken dance! LOL jane wow!  that’s *really* good, jane! this is gonna be bigger than the macarena, i just know it. jt (dawnna ) Ya put the shakeybakey here, ya put the shakeybakey there, you give a little twirl and pour it in your hair, you do the shakeybakey til you think you’re gonna fly, shakeybakey to the sky!  YaY!!! <G jane Well, it could start a new dance craze, if nothing else. Beauty. ok, if we put both of us into a great big shakenbake bag, and shake us up real good…maybe we’ll kinda balance each other out…ya think?  :-D jt Hey JT and all, could i have a little bitty bit of that mania stuff? Could we share? I’m inert right now. Needing something… jane Sounds way manic to me – but am surprised, because I thought you knew that – ????? D*pakote saved my life, at least in one way. Beauty. OOOOHHHHHH YEAHHHHHHH!!!!! was WAAAAAYYYYY into the "severely manic" range (though i’ll always test as somewhat manic cuz i have pretty bad adhd). i couldn’t even *take* the depression inventory, cuz i couldn’t come down enough to think about being depressed. then i took the ADD screening, and practically maxed out all the questions.  i think i got my highest score ever on that quiz, and pretty close to my highest ever on the mania quiz. then i took another nifty quiz and discovered that dave and i have a l*ve relationship.  awwww….. and now i know that it’s 3:34 am, and i’m buzzing like a chainsaw, and what do you DO when you’re this manic??? this kinda started when bruce moved out, mostly cuz of the bathroom project.  i *REALLY NEED IT FINISHED!!!* …but i’m at a planning stage right now which has been going NOWHERE for DAYS because i can’t focus my mind on it successfully. so…ok…is my anxiety and distress over needing it finished so badly and being deprived of some of the resources that were going to make it do-able for me causing me to be more manic/scattered? should i just call my pdoc tomorrow, tell her i need the script, and say "oh, btw…i just about maxed out a mania quiz online…any suggestions?) i can’t sleep. i need to go to sleep.  if only because dave sleeps better when i’m there.  awwwww….. seriously, it’s only been the last couple of manic phases that i’ve really started accepting that i’m manic: what do i do? i’ll go try meditating.  should be a challenge… *sigh*  :) l8r…wish me luck!  with something!!! jt (hey…it’s actually JT!  hiya, JT!!! welcome back!) (*grins*) message insomnia.  2nd night in a row.  i got about 2 hours of sleep sat night, and haven’t even bothered trying yet tonight (it’s 3:15 am here).  i got about 15 minutes worth of napping in this afternoon. hello?  jt’s body??  umm…we have narcolepsy.  it *will* start catching up with us if we don’t get some serious sleep. i’m not even sleepy.  i don’t feel tired.  i have no interest in going to sleep. maybe i’ll go take that mania quiz again, see what i come up with. ok…if i take wellb*trin for depression, and my pdoc upped my dose for a month (which worked GREAT!!!), but then i lost the next script, and have gone back to my previous dose (am taking my leftover meds) until i get up the energy to call my pdoc for another script (but, see, i was supposed to get it filled 2 or 3 weeks ago, and…) …would that possibly trigger a manic episode instead of a depressive one? i’ve also been writing a *lot* to the ng lately, in case no one noticed…*whistles innocently*…looks like ~4 symptoms of mania that i can see…(counting the suing thread as one, the off-color joking thread as another, the general increase in word output sorta feeling like a variant of "pressured speech", and now insomnia.  plus my continuing thread of "save the world", as noted by my preoccupation with "fixing" bruce…which i’m getting better at ignoring. yay!) hmm…of course, taking the mania quiz *yet again* is a sign of ocd behav’s, so *clearly* i’ll have to take the ocd quiz again…..and i can’t take the mania quiz without taking the depression quiz…i just *love* online quizzes!!! -D l8r… jt — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa

Response:

Um, can I copy my karate teacher on this one? I mean, you being the artiste and all, you’d be the expert, see, and it wouldn’t just be another one of my nutsy whims. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – DEfinitely! Glitter is an absolute!!! And  assign the vacuuming to someone who doesn’t mind. It wouldn’t take long to clean up, really. Long as I didn’t have to do it. Or… you could give everyone a loop of tape, sticky side out, and they could stickyside it up!!! can you imagine everyone patting the floor with their tapey loop! <G You could use that metallic confetti stuff, too, but I thing glitter would be best myself. Dumbada dumbada dumbada dumb.. dumbada dumb dumb dumb… kind of ambling off toward the big easy chair where I left my book now…. jane has to be glittery. Can it be glittery? Yayaaayyyyyy! You are the best!!!! (Might just suggest it to my karate teacher when we do our Halloween party – as a variation, because we do all those stupid dances that they think are so fun at parties, and this one would be great – *esp.* if people got given little hands full of glitter to fling around. He’d prolly nix it because we’d have to vacuum it all up afterward . . . Beauty. Ya put the shakeybakey here, ya put the shakeybakey there, you give a little twirl and pour it in your hair, you do the shakeybakey til you think you’re gonna fly, shakeybakey to the sky!  YaY!!! <G jane Well, it could start a new dance craze, if nothing else. Beauty. ok, if we put both of us into a great big shakenbake bag, and shake us up real good…maybe we’ll kinda balance each other out…ya think?  :-D jt Hey JT and all, could i have a little bitty bit of that mania stuff? Could we share? I’m inert right now. Needing something… jane Sounds way manic to me – but am surprised, because I thought you knew that – ????? D*pakote saved my life, at least in one way. Beauty. OOOOHHHHHH YEAHHHHHHH!!!!! was WAAAAAYYYYY into the "severely manic" range (though i’ll always test as somewhat manic cuz i have pretty bad adhd). i couldn’t even *take* the depression inventory, cuz i couldn’t come down enough to think about being depressed. then i took the ADD screening, and practically maxed out all the questions.  i think i got my highest score ever on that quiz, and pretty close to my highest ever on the mania quiz. then i took another nifty quiz and discovered that dave and i have a l*ve relationship.  awwww….. and now i know that it’s 3:34 am, and i’m buzzing like a chainsaw, and what do you DO when you’re this manic??? this kinda started when bruce moved out, mostly cuz of the bathroom project.  i *REALLY NEED IT FINISHED!!!* …but i’m at a planning stage right now which has been going NOWHERE for DAYS because i can’t focus my mind on it successfully. so…ok…is my anxiety and distress over needing it finished so badly and being deprived of some of the resources that were going to make it do-able for me causing me to be more manic/scattered? should i just call my pdoc tomorrow, tell her i need the script, and say "oh, btw…i just about maxed out a mania quiz online…any suggestions?) i can’t sleep. i need to go to sleep.  if only because dave sleeps better when i’m there.  awwwww….. seriously, it’s only been the last couple of manic phases that i’ve really started accepting that i’m manic: what do i do? i’ll go try meditating.  should be a challenge… *sigh*  :) l8r…wish me luck!  with something!!! jt (hey…it’s actually JT!  hiya, JT!!! welcome back!) (*grins*) insomnia.  2nd night in a row.  i got about 2 hours of sleep sat night, and haven’t even bothered trying yet tonight (it’s 3:15 am here).  i got about 15 minutes worth of napping in this afternoon. hello?  jt’s body??  umm…we have narcolepsy.  it *will* start catching up with us if we don’t get some serious sleep. i’m not even sleepy.  i don’t feel tired.  i have no interest in going to sleep. maybe i’ll go take that mania quiz again, see what i come up with. ok…if i take wellb*trin for depression, and my pdoc upped my dose for a month (which worked GREAT!!!), but then i lost the next script, and have gone back to my previous dose (am taking my leftover meds) until i get up the energy to call my pdoc for another script (but, see, i was supposed to get it filled 2 or 3 weeks ago, and…) …would that possibly trigger a manic episode instead of a depressive one? i’ve also been writing a *lot* to the ng lately, in case no one noticed…*whistles innocently*…looks like ~4 symptoms of mania that i can see…(counting the suing thread as one, the off-color joking thread as another, the general increase in word output sorta feeling like a variant of "pressured speech", and now insomnia.  plus my continuing thread of "save the world", as noted by my preoccupation with "fixing" bruce…which i’m getting better at ignoring.  yay!) hmm…of course, taking the mania quiz *yet again* is a sign of ocd behav’s, so *clearly* i’ll have to take the ocd quiz again…..and i can’t take the mania quiz without taking the depression quiz…i just *love* online quizzes!!!  :-D l8r… jt — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa

Response:

wow!  that’s *really* good, jane! this is gonna be bigger than the macarena, i just know it. jt (dawnna )

Ya put the shakeybakey here, ya put the shakeybakey there, you give a little twirl and pour it in your hair, you do the shakeybakey til you think you’re gonna fly, shakeybakey to the sky!  YaY!!! <G jane

Well, it could start a new dance craze, if nothing else. Beauty. ok, if we put both of us into a great big shakenbake bag, and shake us up real good…maybe we’ll kinda balance each other out…ya think?  :-D jt

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey JT and all, could i have a little bitty bit of that mania stuff? Could we share? I’m inert right now. Needing something… jane Sounds way manic to me – but am surprised, because I thought you knew that – ????? D*pakote saved my life, at least in one way. Beauty. OOOOHHHHHH YEAHHHHHHH!!!!! was WAAAAAYYYYY into the "severely manic" range (though i’ll always test as somewhat manic cuz i have pretty bad adhd). i couldn’t even *take* the depression inventory, cuz i couldn’t come down enough to think about being depressed. then i took the ADD screening, and practically maxed out all the questions.  i think i got my highest score ever on that quiz, and pretty close to my highest ever on the mania quiz. then i took another nifty quiz and discovered that dave and i have a l*ve relationship.  awwww….. and now i know that it’s 3:34 am, and i’m buzzing like a chainsaw, and what do you DO when you’re this manic??? this kinda started when bruce moved out, mostly cuz of the bathroom project.  i *REALLY NEED IT FINISHED!!!* …but i’m at a planning stage right now which has been going NOWHERE for DAYS because i can’t focus my mind on it successfully. so…ok…is my anxiety and distress over needing it finished so badly and being deprived of some of the resources that were going to make it do-able for me causing me to be more manic/scattered? should i just call my pdoc tomorrow, tell her i need the script, and say "oh, btw…i just about maxed out a mania quiz online…any suggestions?) i can’t sleep. i need to go to sleep.  if only because dave sleeps better when i’m there.  awwwww….. seriously, it’s only been the last couple of manic phases that i’ve really started accepting that i’m manic: what do i do? i’ll go try meditating.  should be a challenge… *sigh*  :) l8r…wish me luck!  with something!!! jt (hey…it’s actually JT!  hiya, JT!!! welcome back!) (*grins*) message

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – insomnia.  2nd night in a row.  i got about 2 hours of sleep sat night, and haven’t even bothered trying yet tonight (it’s 3:15 am here).  i got about 15 minutes worth of napping in this afternoon. hello?  jt’s body??  umm…we have narcolepsy.  it *will* start catching up with us if we don’t get some serious sleep. i’m not even sleepy.  i don’t feel tired.  i have no interest in going to sleep. maybe i’ll go take that mania quiz again, see what i come up with. ok…if i take wellb*trin for depression, and my pdoc upped my dose for a month (which worked GREAT!!!), but then i lost the next script, and have gone back to my previous dose (am taking my leftover meds) until i get up the energy to call my pdoc for another script (but, see, i was supposed to get it filled 2 or 3 weeks ago, and…) …would that possibly trigger a manic episode instead of a depressive one? i’ve also been writing a *lot* to the ng lately, in case no one noticed…*whistles innocently*…looks like ~4 symptoms of mania that i can see…(counting the suing thread as one, the off-color joking thread as another, the general increase in word output sorta feeling like a variant of "pressured speech", and now insomnia.  plus my continuing thread of "save the world", as noted by my preoccupation with "fixing" bruce…which i’m getting better at ignoring. yay!) hmm…of course, taking the mania quiz *yet again* is a sign of ocd behav’s, so *clearly* i’ll have to take the ocd quiz again…..and i can’t take the mania quiz without taking the depression quiz…i just *love* online quizzes!!! l8r… jt — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa

Response: