Any endocrinologists reading this???
Question:
Has anyone had a similar experience to mine? I would appreciate any suggestions and/or advice. I have suffered from depression for 20 years, and also am very suspicious that I am hypothyroid. My doctors have tested my TSH, free T3, and free T4, on several occasions, and the values come back in the normal range. Because of this, they tell me that I am NOT hypothyroid. However, I have many of the symptoms of being hypothyroid. I have fatigue, depression, weight gain, intolerance to cold, bradycardia (slow heart rate), parasthesia (numbness and tingling) in my hands, as well as 3 other symptoms that I cannot think of right at the moment. I remember reading an article about hypothyroidism in a medical reference book, and that I have 9 of the 18 symptoms which were listed. I have also read an article in a medical journal which states… "In patients with depressive disorder, TSH, T3,and T4 lab values are unreliable." My doctor chooses to ignore this, and declare me to be euthyroid based on my TSH, etc. He has no explanation for my new symptoms of bradycardia and parasthesia, and says that my other symptoms are fairly non-specific, and may simply be symptoms of my depression. I have heard from a friend recently, that endocrinologists can do more extensive testing to determine thyroid status even when the TSH, T3, and T4 are within normal limits. The only endocrinologist that I ever went to simply repeated the TSH, free T3, and free T4 tests which my primary doctor had already done. He then declared me to be euthyroid based on those test results, and declined to give me any thyroid medication. When I sent him a letter stating that the combination of refractory depression and suspected hypothyroidism cause me to have increased suicidal tendencies, he took it as a threat (or a manipulation to try to get him to give me a script for Cytomel and/or Synthroid), and he dropped me like a hot potato. I guess I did not really want to see him again after all, since he declared me to be euthyroid, and would not budge on this diagnosis no matter what I had to say or what my symptoms were. What ever happened to "Treat the patient, not the lab results"? I am very frustrated, because I truly believe that I am hypothyroid, and I also believe that this condition prevents me from feeling well EVEN when my depression is under control. If any endocrinologist happens to read this message, please e-mail me with any suggestions that you may have for me. Even if you are not an endocrinologist, advice would be appreciated. In addition to treatment-resistant recurrent depression, and possibly hypothyroidism, I also suffer from restless legs syndrome and nocturnal myoclonus (muscle jerking while asleep). I am seeing a neurologist for these, and I take three different medications, which help a little, but not a lot. I have strong suspicions that all of my medical problems are somehow inter- related, but nobody else, including my docors, seem to think so. Please send comments, suggestions, or advice via e-mail to: Sincerely, Joe Larson
Response:
Even when a patient is not hypothyroid, psychiatrists sometimes give their patients thyroid hormone anyway. Dr. Whybrow of UCLA is a pioneer in this treatment. I am euthyroid but I take 50 mcg of Synthroid and I don’t know if I am feeling any results. * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful
Response:
Any good psychiatrist or psychopharmacologist will let you try a trial of thyroid hormone to augment your antidepressants with. That is an extremely basic augmentation practice in mainstream psychiatry. Right up there with lithium augmentation in terms of commonality of practice. There are some theories in psychiatry that some depressives, especially some treatment resistant ones, have problems converting from T4 to T3. There are also some theories that some depressives have problems "using" T3 in their brains even though thyroid blood tests (TSH, free T4, free T3) come back fine. Thus, some treatment resistant depressives may benefit from adding a little(not much) Cytomel to their antidepressants to activate their antidepressants. I would recommend reading a book called "The Thyroid Solution" by Dr. Ridha Arem MD. Dr Arem is a renowned endocrinologist and his book is pretty new and up to date on the latest ideas about the relationships between thyroid and depression. He talks about subclinical hypothyroidism, he says T3(Cytomel) can even be used as an antidepressant in itself. It is a good book. If depression is your problem, I would forget about trying to get endocrinologists to give you Synthroid or Cytomel. Most endocrinologists are very conservative…anal even compared to a lot of other types of doctors. A lot of them tend to be pure numbers/statistics types…kind of like CPAs or accountants…bean counters…dweebs. If you want thyroid hormones for the purposes you are talking about you need to get it from a psychopharmacologist. Psychopharmacologists tend to be a lot more aggressive and daring even when it comes to prescribing medications for depression compared to endocrinology doctors. The TRH test mentioned before on this post is not a mainstream thyroid test anymore. It was more common back in the old days before HMOs and managed care. Unless you have extremely good insurance and/or are loaded with cash, you will most likely run into a lot of resistance if you try to get a TRH test done in addition to the standard thyroid tests. To put it bluntly, very few doctors will order a TRH no matter how bad you push for it unless you are medication resistant and have very, very good unrestrictive insurance. I would forget about getting a TRH if you have a greedy, control freak HMO like many of us do. The doctors are under pressure to keep "costs down." If that means you go undertreated somewhat…so be it and it is all legal. Eric "A medal for me, a body bag for you." Colonel Charlie Beckwith US Army Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com
Response:
Has anyone had a similar experience to mine? I would appreciate any suggestions and/or advice. I have suffered from depression for 20 years, and also am very suspicious that I am hypothyroid. My doctors have tested my TSH, free T3, and free T4, on several occasions, and the values come back in the normal range. Because of this, they tell me that I am NOT hypothyroid.
You can ask for a TRH (thyrotropin-releasing hormone) test. Have you ever been tested for anti-thyroid antibodies? The most common form of hypothyroidism is Hashimoto’s thyroiditis, an autoimmune disease. Some doctors will treat for hypothyroidism based on symptoms or basal temperature. The Broda Barnes Research Foundation can give you a referral. http://brodabarnes.org/ I’m sure you’ll get many helpful responses. Good luck. Siobhan, not an endo Before you buy.
Response:
After I had been taking slightly high levels (4 pills) of thyroid for 2 years, my new doctor had me tested for osteoporosis. Apparently, excess thyroid can leach bones. On the other hand when she raised the thyroid medication from 1 to 2 pills after a year, it was helpful to me. I’m sure some people need a little more than others. Christina
Even when a patient is not hypothyroid, psychiatrists sometimes give their patients thyroid hormone anyway. Dr. Whybrow of UCLA is a pioneer in this treatment. I am euthyroid but I take 50 mcg of Synthroid and I don’t know if I am feeling any results. * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find
related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful
Response:
Please look at the links in the "Welcome & Reading for FAQ *****" message. You’ll get a lot of valuable information there. Good luck. Rochelle
where could i find this? — read and post daily, it works! rosie ……we have deprived ourselves too long. there is no need to do that anymore. if it feels good, and the consequences are self-loving and not self-defeating, do it!
Response:
I have been around & around with different docs about this too. I contacted the THYROID FOUNDATION and asked them this: Even if a person has a normal range on their test could they still have mild hypothyroidism or a sluggish thyroid? And they said: YES there is a book out about this. I dont recall the name. Just as you can be low in iron-enough to make you fatigued, but not enough to be anemic. I have all the same symptoms too. They recommend a small dose of thyroid meds to help with Chronic Fatigue. I hope that you find something out. Trish
Response:
One way is to go to http://www.remarq.com In "Find a Message Board," search for "alt.support.thyroid" Then "Search (in this Message Board)" for "Welcome"
After you search for "alt.support.thyroid" you have to click on "Thyroid – Support" and then you’ll get to the page where you can "Search (in this Message Board)" for " Welcome"
Response:
Please look at the links in the "Welcome & Reading for FAQ *****" message. You’ll get a lot of valuable information there. Good luck. Rochelle where could i find this?
One way is to go to http://www.remarq.com In "Find a Message Board," search for "alt.support.thyroid" Then "Search (in this Message Board)" for "Welcome" or else go to and search under "Welcome + Reading for FAQ *****" for John Riggs’ 2 messages dated 7/31/00
Response:
It should be noted that despite what people like Mary Shoman claim, most depression is NOT rooted in mild or subtle thyroid problems. Most depression is rooted in, well, depression! It is easy to get sucked into this notion that one’s depression is possibly caused by hypothyroidism as there is a lot of literature out there claiming that. In fact, I myself wondered whether my depression was being caused by mild thyroid abnormalities, especially since I dont fully respond to meds. It is just not the case that most depression can be helped or cured by correcting underlying thyroid probs. That is wishful thinking and it oftentimes goes hand in hand with the denial of depression thing. "Im not depressed, I just have an undiagnosed, mild thyroid problem." BULL! Lets not forget that ultimately most depression cases are caused by psychiatric reasons(brain malfunctioning) and not thyroid probs. Another thing I noted about Mary is she seems very vehement about her opinion. She kind of acts almost like she is an MD when she is FAR from being a Medical Doctor. She has a nice website and there is a lot of info on there. Ive seen her book before also. Personally though, I liked "The Thyroid Solution" by Dr. Ridha Arem MD better. That is a good book and is really up to date. Eric "A medal for me and a body bag for you." Colonel Charlie Beckwith US Army Steroids caused my depression…prednisone should be used conservatively. Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com
Response:
AFAIK, no one said that there aren’t many causes of depression. While Mary Shomon discusses thyroid problems and depression at www.thyroid.about.com, I don’t think she ever claims that *most* depression is rooted in thyroid problems. OTOH, she does discuss treatment for depression if treatment for thyroid disorders doesn’t clear up the depression(http://thyroid.about.com/health/thyroid/library/weekly/ aa120897.htm). If you prefer other sources of info, just about every list of symptoms for hypothyroidism and hyperthyroidism includes depression on the list. Of course, not everyone with thyroid problems has depression or all the other symptoms. I’m glad you like Dr. Arem’s book _The Thyroid Solution: A Mind- Body Program for Beating Depression and Regaining Your Emotional and Physical Health_. That’s the complete title, BTW. Lois
: It should be noted that despite what people like Mary Shoman : claim, most depression is NOT rooted in mild or subtle thyroid : problems. Most depression is rooted in, well, depression! It is : easy to get sucked into this notion that one’s depression is : possibly caused by hypothyroidism as there is a lot of : literature out there claiming that. In fact, I myself wondered : whether my depression was being caused by mild thyroid : abnormalities, especially since I dont fully respond to meds. : : It is just not the case that most depression can be helped or : cured by correcting underlying thyroid probs. That is wishful : thinking and it oftentimes goes hand in hand with the denial of : depression thing. "Im not depressed, I just have an undiagnosed, : mild thyroid problem." BULL! : : Lets not forget that ultimately most depression cases are caused : by psychiatric reasons(brain malfunctioning) and not thyroid : probs. : : Another thing I noted about Mary is she seems very vehement : about her opinion. She kind of acts almost like she is an MD : when she is FAR from being a Medical Doctor. She has a nice : website and there is a lot of info on there. Ive seen her book : before also. Personally though, I liked "The Thyroid Solution" : by Dr. Ridha Arem MD better. That is a good book and is really : up to date.
Response:
<snip Rosie Readandpost! The Choogler
It’s a commitment!
Response:
Lost Boy, I dont disagree with you, about thyroid abnormality only being a sometime cause of depression. This poster suspects it is in his case so referred him to a site helpful to me. I found Mary Shoman informative but always glad to have a better source so thanks for mentioning one you thought Dr. Ahem is better. Lois, thanks for providing the site. Linda * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
Response:
Hi Joe, I didn’t have initial symptoms, etc, either. But when I started taking thyroid pills, my hair started getting longer, for the first time in 25 years. It helped a lot. But not enough. I too think it is a disorder of a broader system. HGH (human growth hormone) has been helpful for a broad range of things. Unfortunately, the only drug I had a significant positive response to was Fenflouramine. Yup, good old unavailable fen-phen. Damn. Christina
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone had a similar experience to mine? I would appreciate any suggestions and/or advice. I have suffered from depression for 20 years, and also am very suspicious that I am hypothyroid. My doctors have tested my TSH, free T3, and free T4, on several occasions, and the values come back in the normal range. Because of this, they tell me that I am NOT hypothyroid. However, I have many of the symptoms of being hypothyroid. I have fatigue, depression, weight gain, intolerance to cold, bradycardia (slow heart rate), parasthesia (numbness and tingling) in my hands, as well as 3 other symptoms that I cannot think of right at the moment. I remember reading an article about hypothyroidism in a medical reference book, and that I have 9 of the 18 symptoms which were listed. I have also read an article in a medical journal which states… "In patients with depressive disorder, TSH, T3,and T4 lab values are unreliable." My doctor chooses to ignore this, and declare me to be euthyroid based on my TSH, etc. He has no explanation for my new symptoms of bradycardia and parasthesia, and says that my other symptoms are fairly non-specific, and may simply be symptoms of my depression. I have heard from a friend recently, that endocrinologists can do more extensive testing to determine thyroid status even when the TSH, T3, and T4 are within normal limits. The only endocrinologist that I ever went to simply repeated the TSH, free T3, and free T4 tests which my primary doctor had already done. He then declared me to be euthyroid based on those test results, and declined to give me any thyroid medication. When I sent him a letter stating that the combination of refractory depression and suspected hypothyroidism cause me to have increased suicidal tendencies, he took it as a threat (or a manipulation to try to get him to give me a script for Cytomel and/or Synthroid), and he dropped me like a hot potato. I guess I did not really want to see him again after all, since he declared me to be euthyroid, and would not budge on this diagnosis no matter what I had to say or what my symptoms were. What ever happened to "Treat the patient, not the lab results"? I am very frustrated, because I truly believe that I am hypothyroid, and I also believe that this condition prevents me from feeling well EVEN when my depression is under control. If any endocrinologist happens to read this message, please e-mail me with any suggestions that you may have for me. Even if you are not an endocrinologist, advice would be appreciated. In addition to treatment-resistant recurrent depression, and possibly hypothyroidism, I also suffer from restless legs syndrome and nocturnal myoclonus (muscle jerking while asleep). I am seeing a neurologist for these, and I take three different medications, which help a little, but not a lot. I have strong suspicions that all of my medical problems are somehow inter- related, but nobody else, including my docors, seem to think so. Please send comments, suggestions, or advice via e-mail to: Sincerely, Joe Larson
Response:
i’d say its all relative to the individual. example, my honey….he sees a couselor but if you look at his life, he shouldnt be depressed…nothing major has happened physically or medically in his life. i on the other hand….parts of my life reads like a soap opera, i was given the pecarious choice ‘get cut open for a chance to live…or die’, i wear a hearing aid…i can hear a radio and not a tv, i can hear my honey, my dad, but not my own kids or my mom, i cant even hear my own voice…. and guess what….im not now, nor have i ever suffered a major amount of depression. i’ve seen couselors and sought out support groups…like this one, cuz i do feel no matter what im going thru…..i cant be the only one, theres simply too many folks on the planet for me to be that darn unique. i believe "dont sweat the small stuff and its ALL small stuff" and that works for me….so like i said its all individual. i mean i know why my honey is depressed….and truth be told….should be angry, not depressed. and according to all my folks <mom, dad, relatives, my honey, co-workers the fact that im not depressed is ‘amazing’. but you see….those things dont press any of my buttons….i have 3 kids….those are my buttons, every thing else is just life. and thats another point….KNOW your stressors. know what will and wont set you off. then keep your main stressors hidden from public knowledge that way no one can sneaky up on you with stuff to drive you bats. what i am trying to say….is even if depression is linked to thyroid…..its not a strong link. sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Lakaya – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lost Boy, I dont disagree with you, about thyroid abnormality only being a sometime cause of depression. This poster suspects it is in his case so referred him to a site helpful to me. I found Mary Shoman informative but always glad to have a better source so thanks for mentioning one you thought Dr. Ahem is better. Lois, thanks for providing the site. Linda * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
Response:
Joe, congratulations for your very articulate use of English – you put my style to shame! (My excuse is the brain fog I experience due to hypOthyroidism!) Hope you swiftly find a solution.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone had a similar experience to mine? I would appreciate any suggestions and/or advice. I have suffered from depression for 20 years, and also am very suspicious that I am hypothyroid. My doctors have tested my TSH, free T3, and free T4, on several occasions, and the values come back in the normal range. Because of this, they tell me that I am NOT hypothyroid. However, I have many of the symptoms of being hypothyroid. I have fatigue, depression, weight gain, intolerance to cold, bradycardia (slow heart rate), parasthesia (numbness and tingling) in my hands, as well as 3 other symptoms that I cannot think of right at the moment. I remember reading an article about hypothyroidism in a medical reference book, and that I have 9 of the 18 symptoms which were listed. I have also read an article in a medical journal which states… "In patients with depressive disorder, TSH, T3,and T4 lab values are unreliable." My doctor chooses to ignore this, and declare me to be euthyroid based on my TSH, etc. He has no explanation for my new symptoms of bradycardia and parasthesia, and says that my other symptoms are fairly non-specific, and may simply be symptoms of my depression. I have heard from a friend recently, that endocrinologists can do more extensive testing to determine thyroid status even when the TSH, T3, and T4 are within normal limits. The only endocrinologist that I ever went to simply repeated the TSH, free T3, and free T4 tests which my primary doctor had already done. He then declared me to be euthyroid based on those test results, and declined to give me any thyroid medication. When I sent him a letter stating that the combination of refractory depression and suspected hypothyroidism cause me to have increased suicidal tendencies, he took it as a threat (or a manipulation to try to get him to give me a script for Cytomel and/or Synthroid), and he dropped me like a hot potato. I guess I did not really want to see him again after all, since he declared me to be euthyroid, and would not budge on this diagnosis no matter what I had to say or what my symptoms were. What ever happened to "Treat the patient, not the lab results"? I am very frustrated, because I truly believe that I am hypothyroid, and I also believe that this condition prevents me from feeling well EVEN when my depression is under control. If any endocrinologist happens to read this message, please e-mail me with any suggestions that you may have for me. Even if you are not an endocrinologist, advice would be appreciated. In addition to treatment-resistant recurrent depression, and possibly hypothyroidism, I also suffer from restless legs syndrome and nocturnal myoclonus (muscle jerking while asleep). I am seeing a neurologist for these, and I take three different medications, which help a little, but not a lot. I have strong suspicions that all of my medical problems are somehow inter- related, but nobody else, including my docors, seem to think so. Please send comments, suggestions, or advice via e-mail to: Sincerely, Joe Larson
