UPPP Surgery

Question:

Ctkdr wrote: >snipped < >  I decided to go with the UPPP.  Not being able to find much info >  on the subject.  I will try to give a day by day description of > what to expect.

Also, please come back at six months, nine months and a year to tell us how you are doing.  I felt great and slept great for the first six months after my UPPP. — BigAl db-g…@bigfoot.com

Response:

I spent the night in the sleep lab of our local hospital and was diagnosed with severe OSA(obstructive sleep apnea).  I tried the CPAP system but could not keep the mask on for the whole night.  I have two young children and it also scared the heck out of them when they came running in the room during a thunderstorm or bad dream.  I decided to go with the UPPP.  Not being able to find much info on the subject.  I will try to give a day by day description of what to expect.

Response:

Hi, Elohs, Well, you’re certainly resilient, being willing to go back under the knife! Why the UPPP?  Why not just septoplasty?  At least for starters. (Could it be that septoplasty is fairly simple and not as lucrative as UPPP. Nah!) Is septoplasty an outpatient procedure? (Excuse my ignorance.)  UPPP is dpne in the hospital with general anesthetic, and would require some hospital time, which along with the surgery implies some additional risk. If I were you I would continue (as you are doing) to ask hard questions, such as about what’s left of your palate and uvula to do UPPP on.  Perhaps you do have some loose tissue in your throat that the surgeon could tighten up, and maybe that would be beneficial. Best wishes, Sally in Seattle JSo…@aol.com  

Response:

In article <54ki5n$…@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, jso…@aol.com (JSoest) writes: >Why the UPPP?  Why not just septoplasty?  At least for starters. (Could it >be that septoplasty is fairly simple and not as lucrative as UPPP. Nah!) >Is septoplasty an outpatient procedure? (Excuse my ignorance.)  UPPP is >dpne in the hospital with general anesthetic, and would require some >hospital time, which along with the surgery implies some additional risk. >If I were you I would continue (as you are doing) to ask hard questions, >such as about what’s left of your palate and uvula to do UPPP on. Perhaps >you do have some loose tissue in your throat that the surgeon could >tighten up, and maybe that would be beneficial.

Thank you Sally for your valuable comments. I suggested just septoplasty (as I also have those creeping thoughts about who is benefitting here).  My doctor said he believes I need both procedures; and a second opinion agreed (of course he also benefits from performing surgery).  I have been told the septoplasty does not decrease the severity of sleep apnea, but will make CPAP treatment more comfortable, as well as enhancing how I breathe when awake. In my case, just the septoplasty would also require one overnight hospital stay for close observation, according to my dr. Apparently the 5 LAUPs resulted in a very peaked (triangular) shaped opening to my throat instead of the enlarged dome that was the goal.  I had noticed this.  My apnea is much more severe than before the LAUPs because of the resultant smaller opening.  The doc says there are 3 possible options:  1) I don’t have the UPPP and my condition stays the same;  2) I have the UPPP and fall into the 65% of his patients who benefit from the surgery; 3) I have the UPPP and fall into the 35% who do not change, but at least I tried to correct the condition. The tissue on either side of the triangular peak is not loose; on the contrary, it’s scar tissue that does a good job at sealing off the air passage.  This tissue would be removed along with some additional tissue to achieve a larger domed opening than I started out with.  I have been reassured that the hospital anesthesiologists are experienced in working with sleep apnea patients. Continued dialog is making UPPP appear like an intelligent choice. Messages from Brian and Linda have been informative and reassuring.   I would welcome additional comments. Gratefully, Ethel. El…@aol.com

Response:

> Elohs wrote: > > ….. > > I have a deviated septum and have been using Flonase and a Breathe Right > > strip each night. ……. > > Ethel. > > El…@aol.com

I had a UPPP performed in April 1995. I had about 20 apneas/hr prior to the surgery. I had a follow up study in Sept. 1996 and now have no sleep apnea. I did notice a big difference after the surgery but continued to have problems with lethargy. This is not sleep related but appears to be depression (brought on the the apnea maybe). So the UPP worked for me. I understood before the surgery that it was not a guarenteed procedure. Brian

Response:

Beware of UPPP.  There is a rumor being disseminated amoung astute clinicians that UPPP will compromise the "seal" necessary for ultimate CPAP success.  I have personally discovered this to be the case. P.S.  If you know a foreign language, you can say goodbye to it as you know it! Doug.

Response:

Hello everyone – I need to call on you once again for some insightful assistance. I have used CPAP for over 4 years, and then tried LAUP.  I had 5 LAUP procedures over a 10 month period last year.  Beyond the terrible experience, the results were extremely disappointing; bottom line – sleep apnea is now worse (326 apneas during the last sleep study). I have a deviated septum and have been using Flonase and a Breathe Right strip each night.  Failure to use one or both results in increased tiredness the next day.  I thought that possibly correction of the deviated septum would ease air flow from the CPAP through my nose and eliminate use of Flonase and Breathe Right. I discussed this with my primary care physician and he was quite willing to make a referral to an otolaryngologist.  I did not want to return to the one who did 5 LAUPs and failed to tell me that the number of apneas increased. I have consultanted 2 different ENT doctors in the last 3 weeks, and both are recommending a septoplasty and UPPP.  I was unprepared to hear a UPPP recommendation, and based on previous postings over the past year, do not have a positive feeling about the surgery.  I consulted my sleep disorders center physician and he reminded me of the low success rate. I would appreciate some opinions from the group, particularly from those who have had UPPP. Thank you for listening- Ethel. El…@aol.com

Response:

Elohs wrote: > ….. > I have a deviated septum and have been using Flonase and a Breathe Right > strip each night. ……. > Ethel. > El…@aol.com

I had a deviated septum – got it corrected several years before I ever heard of apnea.  It was wonderful for my breathing. The CPAP did wonders for my sleeping.  I though I slept like a log.  A sleep study said it was 39%.  The boss threatened to fire me, almost had several auto accidents, etc. (you’ve heard it all).  Had to fight with my Dr. to get to a pulmonary Dr. to get to a sleep study (why such a big deal?).   Went on CPAP on a Friday night, read a book until 11 pm on Saturday night!!! — Paul in AJ AZ  NRA Endowment Member Checkout the Metal Web News at http://tbr.state.tn.us/~wgray

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -el…@aol.com (Elohs) wrote: >Hello everyone – >I need to call on you once again for some insightful assistance. >I have used CPAP for over 4 years, and then tried LAUP.  I had 5 LAUP >procedures over a 10 month period last year.  Beyond the terrible >experience, the results were extremely disappointing; bottom line – sleep >apnea is now worse (326 apneas during the last sleep study). >I have a deviated septum and have been using Flonase and a Breathe Right >strip each night.  Failure to use one or both results in increased >tiredness the next day.  I thought that possibly correction of the >deviated septum would ease air flow from the CPAP through my nose and >eliminate use of Flonase and Breathe Right. I discussed this with my >primary care physician and he was quite willing to make a referral to an >otolaryngologist.  I did not want to return to the one who did 5 LAUPs and >failed to tell me that the number of apneas increased. >I have consultanted 2 different ENT doctors in the last 3 weeks, and both >are recommending a septoplasty and UPPP.  I was unprepared to hear a UPPP >recommendation, and based on previous postings over the past year, do not >have a positive feeling about the surgery.  I consulted my sleep disorders >center physician and he reminded me of the low success rate. >I would appreciate some opinions from the group, particularly from those >who have had UPPP.

I was diagnosed with sleep apnea in April 1996 having had a septoplasty done in June 1995, at which time my sleep apnea was undiagnosed.  The septoplasty did not cure my sleep apnea. However …… now that I am using CPAP I realise that the septoplasty was essential.  I could hardly breathe through my nose before the operation, now I can breathe easily and so the CPAP is vastly more effective than it would have been without the operation.  If I had the benefit of hindsight I would not hesitate to do it again.   Whilst I am not a medic I feel fairly sure that septoplasty not such a major surgical procedure (from the patient’s point of view) when compared with UPPP or LAUP.  Whilst the operation itself may be a little more involved I would not describe it as particularly painful or difficult to recover from.   To endure 5 LAUP’s must be some sort of a world record, my heart goes out to you.  Alas there seem to be too many surgeons who are all too keen to operate to ‘cure’ sleep apnea when nasal CPAP would appear to be the indicated treatment.  Of course there’s no money in CPAP for a surgeon.  I wonder if there’s a connection here … ? In my opinion your sleep disorders physician would be a better source of advice than an ENT surgeon.  I have the highest regard for mine – surgery (other than septoplasty) is excluded from his menu.  Whilst I am finding CPAP difficult, the surgical alternative is not one I would wish to contemplate. Regards, Tony Polson Haywards Heath, West Sussex, UK email: t…@polson.demon.co.uk

Response:

I’ve been reading these posts from time to time and I’ve noticed a lot of negative posts about UPPP surgery. I wondered if I could get a unbiased opinion from as many as want to reply about it and why are most posts are negative? (seemingly) Thanks for your input Bob Been on CPAP for 18 months

Response:

Bob wrote: > I’ve been reading these posts from time to time and I’ve noticed a lot of > negative posts about UPPP surgery. I wondered if I could get a unbiased > opinion from as many as want to reply about it and why are most posts are > negative? (seemingly) > Thanks for your input > Bob > Been on CPAP for 18 months

I had a UPPP about six years ago.  I was unable to tolerate CPAP at a pressure of 16 because I woke up every morning with severe sinus headaches.  The surgeon put me under with a general anesthetic because I have an active gag reflex. I woke up in ICU because my O2 sat went pretty low during surgery, but I had been told ahead of time that might happen.  I was talking with the overnight nurse and told that I would be going home in the morning.  She said "No way.  Nobody goes straight home from ICU."  I did.  With the drugs I wasn’t really in any pain and I slept pretty good.  Went back to work three weeks later.  In my mind, I had minimal pain during recovery, especially when compared to a gout attack. At that point I was pretty happy with the surgery.  I slept well, lost weight, and had lots of energy for about six months.  then I started getting tired when I woke, etc.  All the signs of sleep apnea and almost lost my job.  I went to a new sleep doctor and she sent me for a titration study with BiPAP.  The pressure was set at 18/9 and I had no problems.  With my sleep docs concurrence a couple of years ago I did an experiment.  Over several weeks I slowly raised the EPAP pressure to see if I would be able to use a CPAP instead of the BiPAP.  The highest exhale pressure I could use was 14.  Any higher and the severe headaches returned.  What’s the point?  If the original doc had told me about BiPAP and I tried it, I probably would have never have had the surgery.  I never regretted the surgery, it just didn’t work.  By the way, I have severe sleep apnea and my O2 sat went down to below 70% at my original test and 74% during surgery while I was breathing oxygen.  Im my opinion there is no reason for UPPP for someone who has moderate or severe sleep apnea until all the varieties of PAP have been tried. To make this fair.  My sister’s brother in law had a very mild case of sleep apnea.  He had LAUP between 9 months and a year ago.  He’s still doing fine. For a mild case of OSA, I would consider LAUP or Somnoplasty before I would have a UPPP.  UPPP still has a place, it’s just not right for most of the patients that have it done.  If you go to a surgeon, you usually get a opinion that the surgical option is the way to go.  I also have a friend at work who used CPAP for a while, but doesn’t use it anymore and feels fine. Hope this helps, Big Al db-g…@bignospamfoot.com Remove nospam to reply via email

Response:

On Fri, 4 Feb 2000 16:43:52 -0500, "Bob" <bobd…@cybertours.com> wrote: >I’ve been reading these posts from time to time and I’ve noticed a lot of >negative posts about UPPP surgery. I wondered if I could get a unbiased >opinion from as many as want to reply about it and why are most posts are >negative? (seemingly)

Surgical treatment for OSA is best described as playing Russian roulette… with two or three bullets in the standard six-shot revolver. The recovery can be nasty and the success rate is so-so. What I’ve heard is that half the patients get no better, and half get 50% better. We have some European posters (where they seem to have done a lot more outcomes research on the subject) who have said that in Europe that doctors rarely if ever get out the knife. After all, the doctor can’t make many Lexus payments from putting the patient on CPAP… it’s more like the phone bill.

Response:

HI Bob, Well, there are a lot of negative posts about UPPP because it doesn’t work very well.  What gets missed in this discussion is that state-of-the-art surgery works much, much better than UPPP.  I really don’t know why many folks here keep talking about UPPP – your guess is a good as mine. Your basic UPPP has about a 10% chance of curing you in an unselected case (random).  The better surgeries have a much better chance.  Bill Dement, the "father of sleep medicine" would figure that your odds at a successful outcome in the first phase of specialized sleep apnea surgery at 60-70% (reference: "The Promise of Sleep", William Dement, page 189). Now 60-70% at the first go is not bad. Keep in mind that this means that 30-40% are not going to be cured. That is a lot of folks. Another thing which can happen is that the overall sleep apnea effect can be altered. This does happen and I have seen it.  In my case, the AI (complete apneas, defined as total cessation of breath for more than 10 seconds) decreased while the hypopneas (defined as 50% or more reduction in airflow for more than 10 seconds with a corresponding decrease in O2 sat of 3%) increased.  The overall effect in my case was the the minimum O2 sat levels decreased, even though the number of complete apneas decreased.  Ok. That can happen. So, it can be that your x-PAP pressures may need to be changed if you are in the 30-40% who are not cured after the first surgery.  There are folks here in this newsgroup who would claim that perhaps after competent surgery, x-PAP won’t work anymore if the surgery fails.  I see no factual evidence to support such a claim.  Certainly the founders of sleep medicine, Bill Dement and Christian Guilleminault would not make such a claim – so who are you going to believe? I postulate that perhaps some folks have had incompetent surgery. I am not saying that the pressures will not change.  I am not saying that perhaps you won’t need bi-pap instead of perhaps cpap.  I am saying that I have heard of no factual basis for a claim that "x-pap may not work after competent surgery". On another point, it turns out that there is an inverse correlation between the severity of the disease and the probability of being cured with an initial surgery.  In other words, the bigger the problem, the less chance that the initial surgery will work. Actually this correlation is not so surprising. Duh! If the first surgery doesn’t work, then another possibility is the double jaw advancement.  The same folks who would tell you that a UPPP has less than a 10% chance of working and that an initial surgery by a sleep apnea specialist has >60% of working, would tell you that they believe that this has a >95% chance. There are multiple surgical groups in the world who are now achieving this success rate; success being defined as essentially that you do not have sleep apnea anymore and need no further treatment (there is a 4 point list from the Stanford folks for "success" which I’ve repeated in another thread). So, there are much better approaches to sleep apnea surgery than UPPP.  There are even reversible versions of UPPP where instead of amputating the uvula, it is reflected back and sutured essentially into the wall of the throat. So, in summary, the surgical state-of-the-art for sleep apnea treatment has advanced much further than the UPPP. Some surgical groups don’t UPPP’s this unless the newer reversible procedures can’t be done for some reason on that particular patient. Also, in most cases where the disease is severe enough to warrant surgery, typically some sort of procedure on the tongue will be done at the same time. This will give you a better than 50% go at it in the first round.  Is that worth it? I can’t answer that for you.  If the non surgical therapies are working for you, then stay with ‘em. I say do surgery when there is no other way.  I know that I’m going to get flamed even though I consistently say that, so what? Flame on… /Marshall mmth…@attglobal.net – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Bob wrote: > I’ve been reading these posts from time to time and I’ve noticed a lot of > negative posts about UPPP surgery. I wondered if I could get a unbiased > opinion from as many as want to reply about it and why are most posts are > negative? (seemingly) > Thanks for your input > Bob > Been on CPAP for 18 months

Response:

Bob,  If you find an honest surgeon then UPPP is successful in STOPing Sleep Apnea in only a VERY few patients.  A successful UPPP is defined as 50% reduction in 1/2 the patients.  Now, if the doctor does some looking and can actually narrow down the place of obstruction you might consider surgery.  The only problem is the lack of studies showing that long term, surgery helps.  Most of the studies show just the opposite for long term results.   Bob wrote: > I’ve been reading these posts from time to time and I’ve noticed a lot of > negative posts about UPPP surgery. I wondered if I could get a unbiased > opinion from as many as want to reply about it and why are most posts are > negative? (seemingly) > Thanks for your input > Bob > Been on CPAP for 18 months

– Peter,  member CAUCE, www.cauce.org I report SPAMers. I actively boycott SPAM advertisers and recommend such action to everyone I know.

Response:

Bob, I think that it’s impossible to get an unbiased opinion. Those that have had UPPP (and I haven’t heard of anyone who has had a successful one) are biased against it. Surgeons who advocate it (and they seem to be mostly in the US) are biased in favour of it. In Ireland, at present, the procedure is seldom if ever used because it is extremely invasive, extremely painful and there is an extremely small chance that it might work and I believe that the situation is similar in the UK. I had UPPP in 1994 which proved unsuccessful and thankfully I am compliant with CPAP now. My sleep doc described UPPP as barbaric.. Whether my posting is biased or not, it is factual. Dan. Bob <bobd…@cybertours.com> wrote in message

news:389b4821_1@news.cybertours.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ve been reading these posts from time to time and I’ve noticed a lot of > negative posts about UPPP surgery. I wondered if I could get a unbiased > opinion from as many as want to reply about it and why are most posts are > negative? (seemingly) > Thanks for your input > Bob > Been on CPAP for 18 months

Response:

On Mon, 7 Feb 2000 22:35:09 -0000, "D. Smyth" <d.sm…@esatclear.ie> wrote: >I think that it’s impossible to get an unbiased opinion. Those that >have had UPPP (and I haven’t heard of anyone who has had a >successful one) are biased against it.

I know somebody who claims to have had a successful UPPP. He didn’t want to be stuck on a CPAP, and his wife assures me he’s much improved. Being the devils’ advocate, however, I wonder if a lot of his improvement was because he also had some nose remodeling done at essentially the same time. >Surgeons who advocate it (and they seem to be mostly in the US) >are biased in favour of it.

Surgeon$ are always in favour of things that generate more $urgical income. (If that comes out weird on your side of the pond, the "$" is the symbol for the dollar sign.) It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that one out… but you have one here if you need it.

Response:

Marshall Congratulations on an excellent cotribution.  As you say so elegantly there are many options. Sleep disordered breathing IMHO is mostly a multi factorial problem and it may that a combinations of therapies will be needed for lots of people. I am going to doc to-morrow to discuss tongue somnoplsty. John Marshall Thomas <mmth…@attglobal.net> wrote in message

news:389C1CFE.66755B28@attglobal.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->HI Bob, >Well, there are a lot of negative posts about UPPP because it >doesn’t work very well.  What gets missed in this discussion is >that state-of-the-art surgery works much, much better than >UPPP.  I really don’t know why many folks here keep talking >about UPPP – your guess is a good as mine. >Your basic UPPP has about a 10% chance of curing you in an >unselected case (random).  The better surgeries have a much >better chance.  Bill Dement, the "father of sleep medicine" >would figure that your odds at a successful outcome in the >first phase of specialized sleep apnea surgery at 60-70% >(reference: "The Promise of Sleep", William Dement, page 189). >Now 60-70% at the first go is not bad. Keep in mind that this >means that 30-40% are not going to be cured. That is a lot >of folks. Another thing which can happen is that the overall >sleep apnea effect can be altered. This does happen and I have >seen it.  In my case, the AI (complete apneas, defined as total >cessation of breath for more than 10 seconds) decreased while >the hypopneas (defined as 50% or more reduction in airflow >for more than 10 seconds with a corresponding decrease in >O2 sat of 3%) increased.  The overall effect in my case was >the the minimum O2 sat levels decreased, even though the >number of complete apneas decreased.  Ok. That can happen. >So, it can be that your x-PAP pressures may need to be changed >if you are in the 30-40% who are not cured after the first >surgery.  There are folks here in this newsgroup who would >claim that perhaps after competent surgery, x-PAP won’t >work anymore if the surgery fails.  I see no factual evidence >to support such a claim.  Certainly the founders of sleep >medicine, Bill Dement and Christian Guilleminault would not >make such a claim – so who are you going to believe? I postulate >that perhaps some folks have had incompetent surgery. >I am not saying that the pressures will not change.  I am not >saying that perhaps you won’t need bi-pap instead of perhaps >cpap.  I am saying that I have heard of no factual basis for >a claim that "x-pap may not work after competent surgery". >On another point, it turns out that there is an inverse correlation >between the severity of the disease and the probability of >being cured with an initial surgery.  In other words, the bigger >the problem, the less chance that the initial surgery will work. >Actually this correlation is not so surprising. Duh! >If the first surgery doesn’t work, then another possibility >is the double jaw advancement.  The same folks who would tell >you that a UPPP has less than a 10% chance of working and >that an initial surgery by a sleep apnea specialist has >60% >of working, would tell you that they believe that this has >a >95% chance. There are multiple surgical groups in the world >who are now achieving this success rate; success being defined >as essentially that you do not have sleep apnea anymore and need >no further treatment (there is a 4 point list from the Stanford >folks for "success" which I’ve repeated in another thread). >So, there are much better approaches to sleep apnea surgery >than UPPP.  There are even reversible versions of UPPP where >instead of amputating the uvula, it is reflected back and >sutured essentially into the wall of the throat. >So, in summary, the surgical state-of-the-art for sleep >apnea treatment has advanced much further than the UPPP. Some >surgical groups don’t UPPP’s this unless the newer reversible >procedures can’t be done for some reason on that particular >patient. Also, in most cases where the disease is severe enough >to warrant surgery, typically some sort of procedure on the >tongue will be done at the same time. This will give you a >better than 50% go at it in the first round.  Is that worth it? >I can’t answer that for you.  If the non surgical therapies >are working for you, then stay with ‘em. I say do surgery when >there is no other way.  I know that I’m going to get flamed even >though I consistently say that, so what? Flame on… >/Marshall >mmth…@attglobal.net >Bob wrote: >> I’ve been reading these posts from time to time and I’ve noticed a lot of >> negative posts about UPPP surgery. I wondered if I could get a unbiased >> opinion from as many as want to reply about it and why are most posts are >> negative? (seemingly) >> Thanks for your input >> Bob >> Been on CPAP for 18 months

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Marshall Thomas wrote: > <<snipped>> > So, it can be that your x-PAP pressures may need to be changed > if you are in the 30-40% who are not cured after the first > surgery.  There are folks here in this newsgroup who would > claim that perhaps after competent surgery, x-PAP won’t > work anymore if the surgery fails.  I see no factual evidence > to support such a claim.  Certainly the founders of sleep > medicine, Bill Dement and Christian Guilleminault would not > make such a claim – so who are you going to believe? I postulate > that perhaps some folks have had incompetent surgery. > I am not saying that the pressures will not change.  I am not > saying that perhaps you won’t need bi-pap instead of perhaps > cpap.  I am saying that I have heard of no factual basis for > a claim that "x-pap may not work after competent surgery". > <<snipped>>

The one thing I have heard many times is that some of the automatic pressure regulating PAP machines will no longer work after an UPPP.  Those are the machines that detect an apnea by the sound of snoring.  Since my UPPP I no longer snore, even though I still have severe sleep apnea.  I’ve been told that I do make a high pitched noise if I fall asleep on the couch. Big Al db-g…@bignospamfoot.com Remove nospam to reply via email

Response:

On Sat, 08 Mar 1997 18:27:38 -0800, k…@abs.net wrote: >About a 2 years ago I was diagnosed with accute obstructive sleep >apnea.  A CPAP was perscribed (7 – 10 cm pressure).  Although the CPAP >effectively resolved the sleep apnea, after about a year of feeling like >I was being launched into space everytime I went to bed, I opted for the >UPPP surgery in hopes of getting rid of the CPAP. The surgery was as >advertised; like the worse sore throat I ever had.  Otherwise, no >problem.  Now, a year later, and I’m still on the %$#@ CPAP and >wondering why.  

How well do you breathe through your nose during the day?  I ask because I hated the CPAP and I figured it would work better if I had my deiviated septum worked on.   So, I had a septoplasty and than I could not tolerate the CPAP.   I was breathing so well through my nose I went to get re-studued so they could lower the pressure.           I did a split study and even at its lowest setting, I could not tolerate the CPAP.  Interestingly, the test showed that the rest of the night, I was sleeping with about 3.5 apneas/hpopneases per hour!   i.e. NORMAL! Since last MAY, I haven’t used the CPAP.  If I am really stopped up, I can tell I am getting interrupted sleep, but otherwise it is normal. I am telling you this because, maybe your ENT is not looking at the whole picture!  It is one thing to open a little real-estate in the throat, but is worthless if you can’t breathe through your nose. My septum was S-shaped instead of straight and I can’t ever remember breathing through both nostrils.  Now my left one is 100% and the right nostril is about 50%.  ( I have a small, small, nose.) Just thought I would share this with you as it might be a possible answer to your question. Fo anyone else reading this, check out your nasal airways! Septoplasty was not painful, covered by insurance, and was I was fully functioning 2 days later!  The nose took about a week to be REALLY breathing.   The most painful part was the hangover from the anesthesia!

Response:

In article <33270711.147944…@library.airnews.net>, cfre…@onramp.net (Chuck French) writes: >Fo anyone else reading this, check out your nasal airways!

Check out EVERYTHING, from nostrils to larynx.  Obstructions can occur anywhere along the airway, and (from what I’ve read and heard from sleep specialist — I’m not one, I’m a medical writer) most people have more than one obstruction contributing to the apnea.  The causes are so multiple and variable — and the surgeries and the surgeons’ skills and experience are also variable — that so far nobody has been very successful in predicting who will have what results from surgery. Personally, if I were contemplating surgery for sleep apnea, I’d get a second, maybe  even a third, opinion. Sally in Seattle JSo…@aol.com Sally in Seattle JSo…@aol.com Coauthor, with Dr. Ralph Pascualy, of Snoring and Sleep Apnea: Personal and Family Guide to Diagnosis and Treatment, published in 1996 by Demos Vermande, NY.  

Response:

About a 2 years ago I was diagnosed with accute obstructive sleep apnea.  A CPAP was perscribed (7 – 10 cm pressure).  Although the CPAP effectively resolved the sleep apnea, after about a year of feeling like I was being launched into space everytime I went to bed, I opted for the UPPP surgery in hopes of getting rid of the CPAP. The surgery was as advertised; like the worse sore throat I ever had.  Otherwise, no problem.  Now, a year later, and I’m still on the %$#@ CPAP and wondering why.   Prior to the surgery, the surgeon assured me I was a "good candidate" and there was a 50 – 50 change that it would eliminate the need for the CPAP. I recently had new sleep studies done.  The result was a recommendation for CPAP at  7 – 10 cm pressure.  It would seem that the surgeon sold me a 2-day stay at his expensive hotel. I believe I recall reading in this newgroup of a similar experience by another "good candidate" for UPPP surgery.  If my memory is correct, I’d like to hear from you.  Is there any real alternative to the CPAP?  My CPAP "system" is a Puritan/Bennett Companion 318 with a Respironics nasal mask.  Elsewhere in the newsgroup I seen it said that this contraption was not designed for human use.  I could not agree more. Actually I believe the guy who designed it was moe than a little masochistic. Replies would be appreciated, either by post or email. Karl C. Wehr k…@abs.net

Response:

k…@abs.net wrote: > I believe I recall reading in this newgroup of a similar experience by > another "good candidate" for UPPP surgery.  If my memory is correct, I’d > like to hear from you.  Is there any real alternative to the CPAP?  My > CPAP "system" is a Puritan/Bennett Companion 318 with a Respironics > nasal mask.  Elsewhere in the newsgroup I seen it said that this > contraption was not designed for human use.  I could not agree more. > Actually I believe the guy who designed it was moe than a little > masochistic. > Replies would be appreciated, either by post or email. > Karl C. Wehr > k…@abs.net

I may be the "good candidate" that you referred to. That came from the fact that I apparently have large tonsils and and a small "back of the throat." However, based on my online research and offline discussions, I am not willing to have the surgery at this time.  I am currently seeing Dr. Kushida of the Stanford Sleep Clinic, (who has SF offices as well!) and I will have a CPAP study at the end of the month.  Let you know how it all goes.

Response:

On Sat, 08 Mar 1997 18:27:38 -0800, k…@abs.net wrote:

snip >problem.  Now, a year later, and I’m still on the %$#@ CPAP and >wondering why.   >Prior to the surgery, the surgeon assured me I was a "good candidate" >and there was a 50 – 50 change that it would eliminate the need for the >CPAP.

snip My ENT talked me out of UPPP surgery.  Told me to lose 85 pounds, then come back for another visit.  Turns out the UPPP surgery probably won’t help, anyway — the primary obstruction is due to a congenitally narrow jaw, which makes the opening in the back of the throat too narrow. I use the Adam’s Circuit, which uses "nasal pillows" that fit into the nostrils.  It is much more comfortable that the old mask.  Also, the old mask was causing my upper incisors to receed. I’m also hoping for something better than a CPAP, but it sure beats the shit out of chronic severe sleep deprivation. Disclaimer:  The opinions expressed in this post belong to whoever posted them.  Since there is no security or verification on the Internet, you can’t prove that it was me, or that this post didn’t get modified in transit.  Whenever that gets fixed, the Internet will become the dominant mode of worldwide commerce.  Until then, the Internet will be the unrestricted playground of the scam artists. From and reply addresses are bogus to defeat the bulk mailer harvestbots. <moc"tod"procpotksed"ta"ssenkraHdrawoH> ssenkraH eeL drawoH (should be easy enough to figure out…) This is not my email address: n…@internetMCI.com

Response:

Hi all. My sleep study found apnea. The next study, with the mask, was a dismal failure–I could neither breathe nor sleep with the mask on, because of 1) Very deviated septum (ENT guy found this), and 2) chronic paranasal sinus inflammatory disease (MRI found this).  The mask could not deliver any pressure through the nose, it’s blocked. The ENT guy now wants to do three things: 1. UPPP 2. Functional septoplasty 3. Bilateral inferior turbinectomy I agree that the deviated septum needs to be fixed, but I’m uneasy about the UPPP.  I’d like to know a lot more about what to expect. Take care. Sam

Response:

Sam Bradshaw wrote:

original post deleted… db-g…@worldnet.att.net wrote:

 >Summary:  Although UPPP was not a complete cure, I would definitely do  >it again.  Note that I had severe obstructions and this might not be  >true for anyone with less severe OSA.  My non-medical advice to you  >would be to get your nose fixed first, then see how much that helps by  >trying xPAP again.  If you still have problems go for the UPPP. I am still unconvinced about the UPPP, but I do agree with BigAl as in my orginal post that you (and myself also) would do better by getting the nose fixed first instead of second.  I’m not a doctor, so "your mileage may vary". Whatever you decide to do, good luck. /Marshall mmth…@ibm.net – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> — > BigAl > db-g…@worldnet.att.net

Response:

Turbinates are fleshy masses that, as someone correctly stated, warm and humidify the air. They tend to hypertrophy-get bigger-on the side that is opposite to your septal deviation. I’m guessing it has to do with greater physical stimulation from the free flow of air on the non-obstructed side.

Response:

Mary Lee Warren wrote in message <34763d3…@206.103.97.91>… >What is a turbinectomy?

The surgical removal of some of the bone in the nose. These particular bony plates are called turbinates. There are 3 "plates" located in each nostril. They take up quite a bit of room in your nose. They serve to help heat, humidify and filter inspired gases. Kelly

Response:

Hummm.  When I had sinus surgery, the corrected a deviated septum and enlarged the "windows" to my sinus cavities so that they would draiin better.  Hope this doesn’t sound too technical.  :-) Whatever they did, it really helped. mary lee – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Thomas Kirk" <t…@erols.com> wrote: >Well as I understand it there is a trabeculae of bony tissue in your nose >and sinuses that can somtimes cause blockages, especially (as in my case) if >you have a deviated septum.  A turbinectomy involves the removal of the >turbinate bones…if am in  error someone please jump in..but to the best of >my knowledge that’s what it is. >Mary Lee Warren wrote in message <34763d3…@206.103.97.91>… >>What is a turbinectomy?

Response:

What is a turbinectomy? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Thomas Kirk" <t…@erols.com> wrote: >I had septoplasty and turbinectomy a few years ago and I noticed an >immediate improvement .  Although I had no idea that I had apnea (Possibly I >have apnea…haven’t gotten the final results of my PSG yet) I found it much >easier to breathe and as far as colds go..my sinuses are now wide open.  I >noticed over the last year that my (possible) apnea conditon has gotten >worse and have spoken to my surgeon about it.   He mentioned Uvula reduction >as my uvula hangs so low as to touch the base of the back of my mouth.  So >I’ll keep you posted with what I find out regarding UPPP..so far though from >on here I hear that it is very painful and may not work.  Perhaps, at least >for me the CPAP and weight loss will be the way to go. >Sam Bradshaw wrote in message < >>The ENT guy now wants to do three things: >>1. UPPP >>2. Functional septoplasty >>3. Bilateral inferior turbinectomy >>Take care. >>Sam

Response:

I had septoplasty and turbinectomy a few years ago and I noticed an immediate improvement .  Although I had no idea that I had apnea (Possibly I have apnea…haven’t gotten the final results of my PSG yet) I found it much easier to breathe and as far as colds go..my sinuses are now wide open.  I noticed over the last year that my (possible) apnea conditon has gotten worse and have spoken to my surgeon about it.   He mentioned Uvula reduction as my uvula hangs so low as to touch the base of the back of my mouth.  So I’ll keep you posted with what I find out regarding UPPP..so far though from on here I hear that it is very painful and may not work.  Perhaps, at least for me the CPAP and weight loss will be the way to go. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Sam Bradshaw wrote in message < >The ENT guy now wants to do three things: >1. UPPP >2. Functional septoplasty >3. Bilateral inferior turbinectomy >Take care. >Sam

Response:

Well as I understand it there is a trabeculae of bony tissue in your nose and sinuses that can somtimes cause blockages, especially (as in my case) if you have a deviated septum.  A turbinectomy involves the removal of the turbinate bones…if am in  error someone please jump in..but to the best of my knowledge that’s what it is. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Mary Lee Warren wrote in message <34763d3…@206.103.97.91>… >What is a turbinectomy?

Response:

Sam, My humble advise is to get at least a couple of surgical opinions.  This septoplasty stuff is basically kind of like a "rotor-rooter" job on the nose and is a quite normal procedure.  If this is competently performed, the chances of an excellent result are quite simply excellent. I plan to have this done myself.  I am surprised that your ENT guy "found this".  Come on…if you really have a significant blockage in one of your nostrils, you already knew something was wrong. Most folks don’t notice the normal switching between nostrils which happens every 3-4 hours.  I definately do and you probably do (I have 90% blockage in the right nostril). Getting the nose working right will help you breathe better when you are awake (and asleep) as well as help out on sinus infections and various ear problems.   The UPP procedure is in comparison, quite speculative. Maybe it will help the sleep apnea and maybe it won’t. Your odds are somewhere around 50%, maybe.   I also talked with a surgeon who recommended that I start with the UPP stuff and possibly other operations and then go on in the second step to fixing the nose. I have since talking with other surgeons who tell me that they would prefer to fix the easy stuff first, where we know that result is likely to be excellent, and then see about the more speculative surgeries.  This makes sense to me.  You may find that the CPAP stuff works a whole lot better if the nose and the basic breathing equipment is working in top notch form. /Marshall mmth…@ibm.net – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Sam Bradshaw wrote: > Hi all. > My sleep study found apnea. > The next study, with the mask, > was a dismal failure–I could neither > breathe nor sleep with the mask on, > because of 1) Very deviated septum (ENT guy > found this), and 2) chronic paranasal sinus > inflammatory disease (MRI found this).  The > mask could not deliver any pressure through > the nose, it’s blocked. > The ENT guy now wants to do three things: > 1. UPPP > 2. Functional septoplasty > 3. Bilateral inferior turbinectomy > I agree that the deviated septum needs > to be fixed, but I’m uneasy about the > UPPP.  I’d like to know a lot more about > what to expect. > Take care. > Sam

Response:

Well I’m going under the knife on the 17th, wish me well. Marshall

Response:

Hope the doc does not take too much off as that can be a problem.  Usually UPPP is only good for helping with snoring and has a very low percentage for sleep apnea effectiveness. "Marshall" <irishbull1…@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:uf5r8.16420$nt1.1358265@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Well I’m going under the knife on the 17th, wish me well. > Marshall

Response:

Keep us up to date Marshall!  I had my surgery on 3/20.  Lots of pain for about a week and a half but now I don’t have a sense of taste.  Have been told that it will come back in time.  GOOD LUCK! Kev Cincinnati Ohio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Marshall wrote: > Well I’m going under the knife on the 17th, wish me well. > Marshall

Response:

<<  wish me well. >> We certainly do!  The very best of success! Keep us posted.  We will be waiting to hear your reports! Mike posted and emailed

Response:

Good luck! I had a UPPP, turbinates and septo on 3/11.  It sucked for the first couple of days, but the pain wasn’t too bad after that.  Keep pounding those ice chips and fluids and you’ll do fine.  Try to get some protein as soon as you can handle it.  I choked down a Metrx shake a day as soon as I could.  It made me feel much better.  A cool air humidifier will is a must have also. Thus far, I’m happy with the results.  I’ve lost 12 lbs and I’m sleeping really well.  My wife says I’m a calmer person and much easier to get along with.  I tried bipap for almost a year. I could not adjust to the mask, even the much touted Breeze.   The only drawback is the occasional backwash of fluid or food into and out of my nose, but that only happens if I try to swallow too much at once. "Marshall" <irishbull1…@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:uf5r8.16420$nt1.1358265@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Well I’m going under the knife on the 17th, wish me well. > Marshall

Response:

how did the post-op visit go? how are you feeling? glad to hear you are doing well, keep me posted. good luck and take care! "BruceR" <bruc…@SPAMwhoever.com> wrote in message

news:HpdWc.32407$xi6.6193@fe2.texas.rr.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ll probably schedule the follow up sleep study in about 6 months. > Tomorrow (Mon), I see the doc for a post surgery checkup. The numbness > is subsiding and there has been no pain from the procedure at all. > "Tink" <nos…@sonic.net> wrote in message > news:txXVc.9091$54.131372@typhoon.sonic.net… > > "Bruce Robin" <br…@houston.rr.com> wrote in message > > news:ItCVc.5618$Jn5.236@fe1.texas.rr.com… > > > How long has it been since your surgery? I had the UPPP about 18 mos > ago > > > with good improvement and the GTA almost 2 weeks ago and that seems > > > successful so far.  I have most of the feeling back in my chin and > lower > > lip > > > and only my lower front teeth remain numb. The numbness subsides a > little > > > more each day as the healing continues. > > hola Bruce, > > the UPPP and GTA surgery was in October 2003. had the post-op sleep > study in > > March 2004. my front lower teeth are still a bit numb. but i am still > glad i > > had the surgery. IIRC, it was about three weeks before my chin and lip > felt > > normal again. > > when is your post-op sleep study? hope the results are great =), > please let > > me know how it all works out for you. > > and try the cpap after –  just to see if it’s easier or more > difficult, more > > effective or less effective. > > good luck. get lots of rest and take care! > > > "Tink" <nos…@sonic.net> wrote in message > > > news:KeCVc.8968$54.127451@typhoon.sonic.net… > > > > Hi Jeff, > > > > Yes, i am also thrilled that there is a newgroup for this. And > they have > > > > been a tremendous help to me. Read and research and question as > much as > > > you > > > > can (starting with the NG FAQ): > > > > ============================================= > > > > Sleep Disorders Newsgroup FAQ Website http://talhost.net/sleep > > > > Newsgroup archives http://www.talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm > > > > ============================================= > > > > before jumping into the surgery route. if you still choose that > route, > > at > > > > least you will be well informed and know what to expect. > > > > from what i understand, UPPP only offers very minimal improvement, > if > > any, > > > > and there are lots of potential complications and side effects (as > noted > > > in > > > > the replys to your post). and if you have severe apnea, it > probably > > won’t > > > > improve things enough to make a difference in how you feel. my > first > > > > suggestion is to find an experienced/reputable sleep doc ASAP. > > > > ask questions and try the suggestions/advise to get used to the > CPAP. > > > > that being said… > > > > i tried CPAP for a YEAR without success or improvement, and > stopped at > > the > > > > point where i should tape my lips shut to stop the CPAP air > pressure > > from > > > > escaping from my mouth (cpap, chin stap, and now tape over my > mouth? > > > no)… > > > > that and i was damn near comatose all the time. my sleep doc > eventually > > > > suggested i might want to consider surgical alternatives and > referred me > > > to > > > > a sleep surgeon. > > > > so i did. the surgeon informed me of the options and the risks and > said > > i > > > > will probably have significant improvement, would hope for the > best, but > > > > offered no guarantees. so i took a huge chance. i got the modified > UPPP > > > (not > > > > because it is standard practice, but because my soft palate and > uvula > > were > > > > low in my throat – almost resting on the base of my tongue), and i > had > > the > > > > genioglossus advancement. the surgeon thought that would be the > most > > > > beneficial approach. > > > > well, i had great results (better than the surgeon had hoped for, > > > actually). > > > > my RDI’s went from 96 to 12. i feel fantastic. i haven’t noticed > my > > > > personality changes, but my family and friends say i am a > different > > person > > > > now, calm, relaxed… > > > > i know i still have some apnea (RDI 12), but it’s not so bad now. > i wish > > i > > > > could have got used to the cpap, but i am not sorry i had the > surgery. i > > > do > > > > have some surgery side effects – swallowing felt strange initially > and > > my > > > > lower teeth still have some numbness (from the GTA). i have read > some > > > posts > > > > that the surgery results may be not last, but i feel great at the > > moment, > > > > better than i have felt in many many years, so i am just gonna be > happy > > > > about that. > > > > as far as cpap after surgery.. not only did i tolerate the cpap, > but > > when > > > i > > > > had the post-op sleep study done, they strapped a cpap on me at > 4am > > > (because > > > > i had a few anpeas) and i had REM sleep the entire time on the > cpap! (as > > > to > > > > why i could use the cpap during the sleep study and not at home? > they > > > > strapped it on me when i was asleep, and i had been given a sleep > med as > > > > well – but wow, that cpap does work well if you can sleep get to > sleep > > > with > > > > it) > > > > bottom line, talk to a good, no, great sleep doc, research your > options. > > > > there are a lot of knife happy docs, not many who know shit at > about > > sleep > > > > apnea. > > > > take care and good luck!! > > > > "Jeff" <adem…@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > > > news:6d859c39.0408151908.292aa964@posting.google.com… > > > > > Hello, > > > > > I am ecstatic that there is a newsgroup dedicated to supporting > people > > > > > with sleep apnea!  I was diagnosed a year ago with severe OSA. > I am > > > > > convinced that my apnea began at age 13 and now I am 34 going on > 35. > > > > > The results of my sleep tests showed that I stopped breathing 52 > times > > > > > an hour during non REM sleep and 72 times an hour during REM > sleep. > > > > > I have the ResMed S7 CPAP machine and just cannot get used to > it.  I > > > > > am thinking of undergoing UPPP surgery, whereby the surgeon > removes > > > > > part of the soft palette and tonsils.  I was told that the > success > > > > > rate of this operation is at best 50% and that the OSA may > actually > > > > > get worse after the operation.  I am still leaning towards > having this > > > > > operation done because that CPAP has only a very marginal > benefit for > > > > > me.  I can usually only sleep part of the night with it on. > > > > > I would like to hear from someone who has had this operation to > see > > > > > whether the apnea was alleviated and if so, to what degree. > Does one > > > > > still have to use the CPAP machine after the operation?  How > long did > > > > > it take before the post operative pain disappeared? > > > > > Best Regards, > > > > > Jeff

Response:

Improvement continues.  Doc said everything looks good with the GTA surgery and I can feel the results. Almost all feeling has returned to my lower jaw with just some remaining numbness in the lower front teeth which he believes will subside. Wife reports no observed apnea and very little snoring.  An inspection of my sinuses revealed that nasal polyps are growing back after being removed 2 years ago. In another year he wants to clean that up again. "Tink" <nos…@sonic.net> wrote in message

news:RPzYc.10990$54.150727@typhoon.sonic.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> how did the post-op visit go? how are you feeling? > glad to hear you are doing well, keep me posted. good luck and take care! > "BruceR" <bruc…@SPAMwhoever.com> wrote in message > news:HpdWc.32407$xi6.6193@fe2.texas.rr.com… > > I’ll probably schedule the follow up sleep study in about 6 months. > > Tomorrow (Mon), I see the doc for a post surgery checkup. The numbness > > is subsiding and there has been no pain from the procedure at all. > > "Tink" <nos…@sonic.net> wrote in message > > news:txXVc.9091$54.131372@typhoon.sonic.net… > > > "Bruce Robin" <br…@houston.rr.com> wrote in message > > > news:ItCVc.5618$Jn5.236@fe1.texas.rr.com… > > > > How long has it been since your surgery? I had the UPPP about 18 mos > > ago > > > > with good improvement and the GTA almost 2 weeks ago and that seems > > > > successful so far.  I have most of the feeling back in my chin and > > lower > > > lip > > > > and only my lower front teeth remain numb. The numbness subsides a > > little > > > > more each day as the healing continues. > > > hola Bruce, > > > the UPPP and GTA surgery was in October 2003. had the post-op sleep > > study in > > > March 2004. my front lower teeth are still a bit numb. but i am still > > glad i > > > had the surgery. IIRC, it was about three weeks before my chin and lip > > felt > > > normal again. > > > when is your post-op sleep study? hope the results are great =), > > please let > > > me know how it all works out for you. > > > and try the cpap after –  just to see if it’s easier or more > > difficult, more > > > effective or less effective. > > > good luck. get lots of rest and take care! > > > > "Tink" <nos…@sonic.net> wrote in message > > > > news:KeCVc.8968$54.127451@typhoon.sonic.net… > > > > > Hi Jeff, > > > > > Yes, i am also thrilled that there is a newgroup for this. And > > they have > > > > > been a tremendous help to me. Read and research and question as > > much as > > > > you > > > > > can (starting with the NG FAQ): > > > > > ============================================= > > > > > Sleep Disorders Newsgroup FAQ Website http://talhost.net/sleep > > > > > Newsgroup archives http://www.talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm > > > > > ============================================= > > > > > before jumping into the surgery route. if you still choose that > > route, > > > at > > > > > least you will be well informed and know what to expect. > > > > > from what i understand, UPPP only offers very minimal improvement, > > if > > > any, > > > > > and there are lots of potential complications and side effects (as > > noted > > > > in > > > > > the replys to your post). and if you have severe apnea, it > > probably > > > won’t > > > > > improve things enough to make a difference in how you feel. my > > first > > > > > suggestion is to find an experienced/reputable sleep doc ASAP. > > > > > ask questions and try the suggestions/advise to get used to the > > CPAP. > > > > > that being said… > > > > > i tried CPAP for a YEAR without success or improvement, and > > stopped at > > > the > > > > > point where i should tape my lips shut to stop the CPAP air > > pressure > > > from > > > > > escaping from my mouth (cpap, chin stap, and now tape over my > > mouth? > > > > no)… > > > > > that and i was damn near comatose all the time. my sleep doc > > eventually > > > > > suggested i might want to consider surgical alternatives and > > referred me > > > > to > > > > > a sleep surgeon. > > > > > so i did. the surgeon informed me of the options and the risks and > > said > > > i > > > > > will probably have significant improvement, would hope for the > > best, but > > > > > offered no guarantees. so i took a huge chance. i got the modified > > UPPP > > > > (not > > > > > because it is standard practice, but because my soft palate and > > uvula > > > were > > > > > low in my throat – almost resting on the base of my tongue), and i > > had > > > the > > > > > genioglossus advancement. the surgeon thought that would be the > > most > > > > > beneficial approach. > > > > > well, i had great results (better than the surgeon had hoped for, > > > > actually). > > > > > my RDI’s went from 96 to 12. i feel fantastic. i haven’t noticed > > my > > > > > personality changes, but my family and friends say i am a > > different > > > person > > > > > now, calm, relaxed… > > > > > i know i still have some apnea (RDI 12), but it’s not so bad now. > > i wish > > > i > > > > > could have got used to the cpap, but i am not sorry i had the > > surgery. i > > > > do > > > > > have some surgery side effects – swallowing felt strange initially > > and > > > my > > > > > lower teeth still have some numbness (from the GTA). i have read > > some > > > > posts > > > > > that the surgery results may be not last, but i feel great at the > > > moment, > > > > > better than i have felt in many many years, so i am just gonna be > > happy > > > > > about that. > > > > > as far as cpap after surgery.. not only did i tolerate the cpap, > > but > > > when > > > > i > > > > > had the post-op sleep study done, they strapped a cpap on me at > > 4am > > > > (because > > > > > i had a few anpeas) and i had REM sleep the entire time on the > > cpap! (as > > > > to > > > > > why i could use the cpap during the sleep study and not at home? > > they > > > > > strapped it on me when i was asleep, and i had been given a sleep > > med as > > > > > well – but wow, that cpap does work well if you can sleep get to > > sleep > > > > with > > > > > it) > > > > > bottom line, talk to a good, no, great sleep doc, research your > > options. > > > > > there are a lot of knife happy docs, not many who know shit at > > about > > > sleep > > > > > apnea. > > > > > take care and good luck!! > > > > > "Jeff" <adem…@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > > > > news:6d859c39.0408151908.292aa964@posting.google.com… > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > I am ecstatic that there is a newsgroup dedicated to supporting > > people > > > > > > with sleep apnea!  I was diagnosed a year ago with severe OSA. > > I am > > > > > > convinced that my apnea began at age 13 and now I am 34 going on > > 35. > > > > > > The results of my sleep tests showed that I stopped breathing 52 > > times > > > > > > an hour during non REM sleep and 72 times an hour during REM > > sleep. > > > > > > I have the ResMed S7 CPAP machine and just cannot get used to > > it.  I > > > > > > am thinking of undergoing UPPP surgery, whereby the surgeon > > removes > > > > > > part of the soft palette and tonsils.  I was told that the > > success > > > > > > rate of this operation is at best 50% and that the OSA may > > actually > > > > > > get worse after the operation.  I am still leaning towards > > having this > > > > > > operation done because that CPAP has only a very marginal > > benefit for > > > > > > me.  I can usually only sleep part of the night with it on. > > > > > > I would like to hear from someone who has had this operation to > > see > > > > > > whether the apnea was alleviated and if so, to what degree. > > Does one > > > > > > still have to use the CPAP machine after the operation?  How > > long did > > > > > > it take before the post operative pain disappeared? > > > > > > Best Regards, > > > > > > Jeff

Response:

I totally agree with what has been said in this post Jeff, i had the laser treatment years ago ( when i was 32 to be precise i am now 43 ) to thin my top pallet down to try & stop my snoring, it never really helped my situation.  Then earlier on this year CPAP came along,  and i have the same machine as you, a resmed S7 with the Mirage Full Face Mask Series 2 you need to persevere with it Jeff, it certainly helped me out. When i went back for a review a few weeks back the Consultant at the Freeman Hospital Lung Function was pleased that CPAP was working for me as he only used surgery as a last resort. I hopes this helps in any way Jeff. Doug Quack Quack Kate :O) "Jeff" <adem…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:6d859c39.0408151908.292aa964@posting.google.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello, > I am ecstatic that there is a newsgroup dedicated to supporting people > with sleep apnea!  I was diagnosed a year ago with severe OSA.  I am > convinced that my apnea began at age 13 and now I am 34 going on 35. > The results of my sleep tests showed that I stopped breathing 52 times > an hour during non REM sleep and 72 times an hour during REM sleep. > I have the ResMed S7 CPAP machine and just cannot get used to it.  I > am thinking of undergoing UPPP surgery, whereby the surgeon removes > part of the soft palette and tonsils.  I was told that the success > rate of this operation is at best 50% and that the OSA may actually > get worse after the operation.  I am still leaning towards having this > operation done because that CPAP has only a very marginal benefit for > me.  I can usually only sleep part of the night with it on. > I would like to hear from someone who has had this operation to see > whether the apnea was alleviated and if so, to what degree.  Does one > still have to use the CPAP machine after the operation?  How long did > it take before the post operative pain disappeared? > Best Regards, > Jeff

Response:

Hi Jeff and welcome, "Jeff" <adem…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:6d859c39.0408151908.292aa964@posting.google.com… > Hello, > I am ecstatic that there is a newsgroup dedicated to supporting people > with sleep apnea!  I was diagnosed a year ago with severe OSA.  I am > convinced that my apnea began at age 13 and now I am 34 going on 35. > The results of my sleep tests showed that I stopped breathing 52 times > an hour during non REM sleep and 72 times an hour during REM sleep. > I have the ResMed S7 CPAP machine and just cannot get used to it.  I > am thinking of undergoing UPPP surgery, whereby the surgeon removes > part of the soft palette and tonsils.  I was told that the success > rate of this operation is at best 50% and that the OSA may actually > get worse after the operation.

Figures are actually a 50% improvement in 50% of the cases. Surgeons say that an ‘improvement’ is a reduction in apnoea events, so technically if your events are reduced in any way by a UPPP then you are classed as a success……………..despite the fact that in your case a full 50% reduction will still mean that you will have to use cpap post operatively.   I am still leaning towards having this > operation done because that CPAP has only a very marginal benefit for > me.  I can usually only sleep part of the night with it on.

Not a good idea, as UPPP on its own will not cure you. There is also a danger that if the surgeon cuts too much (as often happens) you may not be able to use cpap post operatively because of an inability to create a seal due to the removal of tissue. > I would like to hear from someone who has had this operation to see > whether the apnea was alleviated and if so, to what degree.  Does one > still have to use the CPAP machine after the operation?  How long did > it take before the post operative pain disappeared?

I had the UPPP as far back as 1994. It’s barbaric surgery and in Ireland it is now seldom if ever used to treat sleep apnoea because of its dismal success rates. Post operative pain took me a number of weeks to disappear, however the swelling can remain and is uncomfortable. UPPP is the oldest form of surgery to attempt to cure sleep apnoea. It is also the least effective. In my case the improvement lasted for 2/3 months, but my apnoea returned, I believe, more severely. Thankfully I was able to use cpap. CPAP is not easy, but it does work. You have to be bloody minded as regards the mask and persevere. In the support group I help with we have a saying ‘Obstructive Sleep Apnoea is a disorder (not an illness), disorders cannot be cured, but they can be managed successfully’. This helps people get it into their heads that they are probably facing this problem for the rest of their lives and that there are no quick fixes. Obviously some people can be ‘cured’ but usually only those with mild apnoea. I wish you well, but UPPP will not work with the number of apnoea events you are experiencing. Even with a 50% improvement you are still looking at CPAP, and your surgeon has another ’success’ to boast about. Don’t be afraid to ask for help here. Dan.

Response:

I’ll probably schedule the follow up sleep study in about 6 months. Tomorrow (Mon), I see the doc for a post surgery checkup. The numbness is subsiding and there has been no pain from the procedure at all. "Tink" <nos…@sonic.net> wrote in message

news:txXVc.9091$54.131372@typhoon.sonic.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Bruce Robin" <br…@houston.rr.com> wrote in message > news:ItCVc.5618$Jn5.236@fe1.texas.rr.com… > > How long has it been since your surgery? I had the UPPP about 18 mos ago > > with good improvement and the GTA almost 2 weeks ago and that seems > > successful so far.  I have most of the feeling back in my chin and lower > lip > > and only my lower front teeth remain numb. The numbness subsides a little > > more each day as the healing continues. > hola Bruce, > the UPPP and GTA surgery was in October 2003. had the post-op sleep study in > March 2004. my front lower teeth are still a bit numb. but i am still glad i > had the surgery. IIRC, it was about three weeks before my chin and lip felt > normal again. > when is your post-op sleep study? hope the results are great =), please let > me know how it all works out for you. > and try the cpap after –  just to see if it’s easier or more difficult, more > effective or less effective. > good luck. get lots of rest and take care! > > "Tink" <nos…@sonic.net> wrote in message > > news:KeCVc.8968$54.127451@typhoon.sonic.net… > > > Hi Jeff, > > > Yes, i am also thrilled that there is a newgroup for this. And they have > > > been a tremendous help to me. Read and research and question as much as > > you > > > can (starting with the NG FAQ): > > > ============================================= > > > Sleep Disorders Newsgroup FAQ Website http://talhost.net/sleep > > > Newsgroup archives http://www.talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm > > > ============================================= > > > before jumping into the surgery route. if you still choose that route, > at > > > least you will be well informed and know what to expect. > > > from what i understand, UPPP only offers very minimal improvement, if > any, > > > and there are lots of potential complications and side effects (as noted > > in > > > the replys to your post). and if you have severe apnea, it probably > won’t > > > improve things enough to make a difference in how you feel. my first > > > suggestion is to find an experienced/reputable sleep doc ASAP. > > > ask questions and try the suggestions/advise to get used to the CPAP. > > > that being said… > > > i tried CPAP for a YEAR without success or improvement, and stopped at > the > > > point where i should tape my lips shut to stop the CPAP air pressure > from > > > escaping from my mouth (cpap, chin stap, and now tape over my mouth? > > no)… > > > that and i was damn near comatose all the time. my sleep doc eventually > > > suggested i might want to consider surgical alternatives and referred me > > to > > > a sleep surgeon. > > > so i did. the surgeon informed me of the options and the risks and said > i > > > will probably have significant improvement, would hope for the best, but > > > offered no guarantees. so i took a huge chance. i got the modified UPPP > > (not > > > because it is standard practice, but because my soft palate and uvula > were > > > low in my throat – almost resting on the base of my tongue), and i had > the > > > genioglossus advancement. the surgeon thought that would be the most > > > beneficial approach. > > > well, i had great results (better than the surgeon had hoped for, > > actually). > > > my RDI’s went from 96 to 12. i feel fantastic. i haven’t noticed my > > > personality changes, but my family and friends say i am a different > person > > > now, calm, relaxed… > > > i know i still have some apnea (RDI 12), but it’s not so bad now. i wish > i > > > could have got used to the cpap, but i am not sorry i had the surgery. i > > do > > > have some surgery side effects – swallowing felt strange initially and > my > > > lower teeth still have some numbness (from the GTA). i have read some > > posts > > > that the surgery results may be not last, but i feel great at the > moment, > > > better than i have felt in many many years, so i am just gonna be happy > > > about that. > > > as far as cpap after surgery.. not only did i tolerate the cpap, but > when > > i > > > had the post-op sleep study done, they strapped a cpap on me at 4am > > (because > > > i had a few anpeas) and i had REM sleep the entire time on the cpap! (as > > to > > > why i could use the cpap during the sleep study and not at home? they > > > strapped it on me when i was asleep, and i had been given a sleep med as > > > well – but wow, that cpap does work well if you can sleep get to sleep > > with > > > it) > > > bottom line, talk to a good, no, great sleep doc, research your options. > > > there are a lot of knife happy docs, not many who know shit at about > sleep > > > apnea. > > > take care and good luck!! > > > "Jeff" <adem…@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > > news:6d859c39.0408151908.292aa964@posting.google.com… > > > > Hello, > > > > I am ecstatic that there is a newsgroup dedicated to supporting people > > > > with sleep apnea!  I was diagnosed a year ago with severe OSA. I am > > > > convinced that my apnea began at age 13 and now I am 34 going on 35. > > > > The results of my sleep tests showed that I stopped breathing 52 times > > > > an hour during non REM sleep and 72 times an hour during REM sleep. > > > > I have the ResMed S7 CPAP machine and just cannot get used to it.  I > > > > am thinking of undergoing UPPP surgery, whereby the surgeon removes > > > > part of the soft palette and tonsils.  I was told that the success > > > > rate of this operation is at best 50% and that the OSA may actually > > > > get worse after the operation.  I am still leaning towards having this > > > > operation done because that CPAP has only a very marginal benefit for > > > > me.  I can usually only sleep part of the night with it on. > > > > I would like to hear from someone who has had this operation to see > > > > whether the apnea was alleviated and if so, to what degree. Does one > > > > still have to use the CPAP machine after the operation?  How long did > > > > it take before the post operative pain disappeared? > > > > Best Regards, > > > > Jeff

Response:

Hi Jeff, Yes, i am also thrilled that there is a newgroup for this. And they have been a tremendous help to me. Read and research and question as much as you can (starting with the NG FAQ): ============================================= Sleep Disorders Newsgroup FAQ Website http://talhost.net/sleep Newsgroup archives http://www.talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm ============================================= before jumping into the surgery route. if you still choose that route, at least you will be well informed and know what to expect. from what i understand, UPPP only offers very minimal improvement, if any, and there are lots of potential complications and side effects (as noted in the replys to your post). and if you have severe apnea, it probably won’t improve things enough to make a difference in how you feel. my first suggestion is to find an experienced/reputable sleep doc ASAP. ask questions and try the suggestions/advise to get used to the CPAP. that being said… i tried CPAP for a YEAR without success or improvement, and stopped at the point where i should tape my lips shut to stop the CPAP air pressure from escaping from my mouth (cpap, chin stap, and now tape over my mouth? no)… that and i was damn near comatose all the time. my sleep doc eventually suggested i might want to consider surgical alternatives and referred me to a sleep surgeon. so i did. the surgeon informed me of the options and the risks and said i will probably have significant improvement, would hope for the best, but offered no guarantees. so i took a huge chance. i got the modified UPPP (not because it is standard practice, but because my soft palate and uvula were low in my throat – almost resting on the base of my tongue), and i had the genioglossus advancement. the surgeon thought that would be the most beneficial approach. well, i had great results (better than the surgeon had hoped for, actually). my RDI’s went from 96 to 12. i feel fantastic. i haven’t noticed my personality changes, but my family and friends say i am a different person now, calm, relaxed… i know i still have some apnea (RDI 12), but it’s not so bad now. i wish i could have got used to the cpap, but i am not sorry i had the surgery. i do have some surgery side effects – swallowing felt strange initially and my lower teeth still have some numbness (from the GTA). i have read some posts that the surgery results may be not last, but i feel great at the moment, better than i have felt in many many years, so i am just gonna be happy about that. as far as cpap after surgery.. not only did i tolerate the cpap, but when i had the post-op sleep study done, they strapped a cpap on me at 4am (because i had a few anpeas) and i had REM sleep the entire time on the cpap! (as to why i could use the cpap during the sleep study and not at home? they strapped it on me when i was asleep, and i had been given a sleep med as well – but wow, that cpap does work well if you can sleep get to sleep with it) bottom line, talk to a good, no, great sleep doc, research your options. there are a lot of knife happy docs, not many who know shit at about sleep apnea. take care and good luck!! "Jeff" <adem…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:6d859c39.0408151908.292aa964@posting.google.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello, > I am ecstatic that there is a newsgroup dedicated to supporting people > with sleep apnea!  I was diagnosed a year ago with severe OSA.  I am > convinced that my apnea began at age 13 and now I am 34 going on 35. > The results of my sleep tests showed that I stopped breathing 52 times > an hour during non REM sleep and 72 times an hour during REM sleep. > I have the ResMed S7 CPAP machine and just cannot get used to it.  I > am thinking of undergoing UPPP surgery, whereby the surgeon removes > part of the soft palette and tonsils.  I was told that the success > rate of this operation is at best 50% and that the OSA may actually > get worse after the operation.  I am still leaning towards having this > operation done because that CPAP has only a very marginal benefit for > me.  I can usually only sleep part of the night with it on. > I would like to hear from someone who has had this operation to see > whether the apnea was alleviated and if so, to what degree.  Does one > still have to use the CPAP machine after the operation?  How long did > it take before the post operative pain disappeared? > Best Regards, > Jeff

Response:

How long has it been since your surgery? I had the UPPP about 18 mos ago with good improvement and the GTA almost 2 weeks ago and that seems successful so far.  I have most of the feeling back in my chin and lower lip and only my lower front teeth remain numb. The numbness subsides a little more each day as the healing continues. "Tink" <nos…@sonic.net> wrote in message

news:KeCVc.8968$54.127451@typhoon.sonic.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Jeff, > Yes, i am also thrilled that there is a newgroup for this. And they have > been a tremendous help to me. Read and research and question as much as you > can (starting with the NG FAQ): > ============================================= > Sleep Disorders Newsgroup FAQ Website http://talhost.net/sleep > Newsgroup archives http://www.talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm > ============================================= > before jumping into the surgery route. if you still choose that route, at > least you will be well informed and know what to expect. > from what i understand, UPPP only offers very minimal improvement, if any, > and there are lots of potential complications and side effects (as noted in > the replys to your post). and if you have severe apnea, it probably won’t > improve things enough to make a difference in how you feel. my first > suggestion is to find an experienced/reputable sleep doc ASAP. > ask questions and try the suggestions/advise to get used to the CPAP. > that being said… > i tried CPAP for a YEAR without success or improvement, and stopped at the > point where i should tape my lips shut to stop the CPAP air pressure from > escaping from my mouth (cpap, chin stap, and now tape over my mouth? no)… > that and i was damn near comatose all the time. my sleep doc eventually > suggested i might want to consider surgical alternatives and referred me to > a sleep surgeon. > so i did. the surgeon informed me of the options and the risks and said i > will probably have significant improvement, would hope for the best, but > offered no guarantees. so i took a huge chance. i got the modified UPPP (not > because it is standard practice, but because my soft palate and uvula were > low in my throat – almost resting on the base of my tongue), and i had the > genioglossus advancement. the surgeon thought that would be the most > beneficial approach. > well, i had great results (better than the surgeon had hoped for, actually). > my RDI’s went from 96 to 12. i feel fantastic. i haven’t noticed my > personality changes, but my family and friends say i am a different person > now, calm, relaxed… > i know i still have some apnea (RDI 12), but it’s not so bad now. i wish i > could have got used to the cpap, but i am not sorry i had the surgery. i do > have some surgery side effects – swallowing felt strange initially and my > lower teeth still have some numbness (from the GTA). i have read some posts > that the surgery results may be not last, but i feel great at the moment, > better than i have felt in many many years, so i am just gonna be happy > about that. > as far as cpap after surgery.. not only did i tolerate the cpap, but when i > had the post-op sleep study done, they strapped a cpap on me at 4am (because > i had a few anpeas) and i had REM sleep the entire time on the cpap! (as to > why i could use the cpap during the sleep study and not at home? they > strapped it on me when i was asleep, and i had been given a sleep med as > well – but wow, that cpap does work well if you can sleep get to sleep with > it) > bottom line, talk to a good, no, great sleep doc, research your options. > there are a lot of knife happy docs, not many who know shit at about sleep > apnea. > take care and good luck!! > "Jeff" <adem…@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:6d859c39.0408151908.292aa964@posting.google.com… > > Hello, > > I am ecstatic that there is a newsgroup dedicated to supporting people > > with sleep apnea!  I was diagnosed a year ago with severe OSA.  I am > > convinced that my apnea began at age 13 and now I am 34 going on 35. > > The results of my sleep tests showed that I stopped breathing 52 times > > an hour during non REM sleep and 72 times an hour during REM sleep. > > I have the ResMed S7 CPAP machine and just cannot get used to it.  I > > am thinking of undergoing UPPP surgery, whereby the surgeon removes > > part of the soft palette and tonsils.  I was told that the success > > rate of this operation is at best 50% and that the OSA may actually > > get worse after the operation.  I am still leaning towards having this > > operation done because that CPAP has only a very marginal benefit for > > me.  I can usually only sleep part of the night with it on. > > I would like to hear from someone who has had this operation to see > > whether the apnea was alleviated and if so, to what degree.  Does one > > still have to use the CPAP machine after the operation?  How long did > > it take before the post operative pain disappeared? > > Best Regards, > > Jeff

Response:

I had this surgery last fall, and also had my tonsils removed at the same time. For years, I had been saying that I needed my tonsils removed.  I went to an ear, nose & throat Dr. who said they could come out, but didn’t need to. I pressed for surgery. They did that and also the APPP at the same time.  It was the worst week of my life after that.  I could barely swallow the liquid Tylenol 3 they gave me, and popsicles were too difficult to eat!  I became dehydrated despite my best efforts to eat ice chips, and ended up in the hospital overnight. However, if I had to go through it again, I would in a minute.  Prior to that, I had this yellow-crap that would get caught in my tonsils and would actually have to poke it out.  I could feel something in my throat, and would choke often.  After drinking water, I would ‘burp’ some back up, and it was clean water – obviously getting stuck somewhere in my throat.  I had been using 20-30 sick days/yr. for the past few years. I still use CPAP, but my overall condition is much improved.  No more sore throats, strep-throat, sour-throat.  Everything healed well, and I’m almost 11 months without a single sick day!  I can breathe easier, and this constant feeling of having something stuck in my throat is gone. Incidentally, after the surgery the Dr. said they were the largest tonsils that he had seen, and had great difficulty in removing them.  They were very deep and went down my throat.  They were covered in scar tissue from old infections, and he said it was a good thing to get rid of them.  He thought that I likely always had a low-grade infection from them. The procedure may not remove your need for a CPAP, but it might help it become more efficient! From my personal experience, I would recommend the APPP.  However, your situation is different than mine.  Just remember that you may not rid yourself of CPAP, but it might work better.  If you do go through with the surgery, hang in there!  A week of pain is worth it in the long run. "Jeff" <adem…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:6d859c39.0408151908.292aa964@posting.google.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello, > I am ecstatic that there is a newsgroup dedicated to supporting people > with sleep apnea!  I was diagnosed a year ago with severe OSA.  I am > convinced that my apnea began at age 13 and now I am 34 going on 35. > The results of my sleep tests showed that I stopped breathing 52 times > an hour during non REM sleep and 72 times an hour during REM sleep. > I have the ResMed S7 CPAP machine and just cannot get used to it.  I > am thinking of undergoing UPPP surgery, whereby the surgeon removes > part of the soft palette and tonsils.  I was told that the success > rate of this operation is at best 50% and that the OSA may actually > get worse after the operation.  I am still leaning towards having this > operation done because that CPAP has only a very marginal benefit for > me.  I can usually only sleep part of the night with it on. > I would like to hear from someone who has had this operation to see > whether the apnea was alleviated and if so, to what degree.  Does one > still have to use the CPAP machine after the operation?  How long did > it take before the post operative pain disappeared? > Best Regards, > Jeff

Response:

"Bruce Robin" <br…@houston.rr.com> wrote in message

news:ItCVc.5618$Jn5.236@fe1.texas.rr.com… > How long has it been since your surgery? I had the UPPP about 18 mos ago > with good improvement and the GTA almost 2 weeks ago and that seems > successful so far.  I have most of the feeling back in my chin and lower lip > and only my lower front teeth remain numb. The numbness subsides a little > more each day as the healing continues.

hola Bruce, the UPPP and GTA surgery was in October 2003. had the post-op sleep study in March 2004. my front lower teeth are still a bit numb. but i am still glad i had the surgery. IIRC, it was about three weeks before my chin and lip felt normal again. when is your post-op sleep study? hope the results are great =), please let me know how it all works out for you. and try the cpap after –  just to see if it’s easier or more difficult, more effective or less effective. good luck. get lots of rest and take care! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Tink" <nos…@sonic.net> wrote in message > news:KeCVc.8968$54.127451@typhoon.sonic.net… > > Hi Jeff, > > Yes, i am also thrilled that there is a newgroup for this. And they have > > been a tremendous help to me. Read and research and question as much as > you > > can (starting with the NG FAQ): > > ============================================= > > Sleep Disorders Newsgroup FAQ Website http://talhost.net/sleep > > Newsgroup archives http://www.talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm > > ============================================= > > before jumping into the surgery route. if you still choose that route, at > > least you will be well informed and know what to expect. > > from what i understand, UPPP only offers very minimal improvement, if any, > > and there are lots of potential complications and side effects (as noted > in > > the replys to your post). and if you have severe apnea, it probably won’t > > improve things enough to make a difference in how you feel. my first > > suggestion is to find an experienced/reputable sleep doc ASAP. > > ask questions and try the suggestions/advise to get used to the CPAP. > > that being said… > > i tried CPAP for a YEAR without success or improvement, and stopped at the > > point where i should tape my lips shut to stop the CPAP air pressure from > > escaping from my mouth (cpap, chin stap, and now tape over my mouth? > no)… > > that and i was damn near comatose all the time. my sleep doc eventually > > suggested i might want to consider surgical alternatives and referred me > to > > a sleep surgeon. > > so i did. the surgeon informed me of the options and the risks and said i > > will probably have significant improvement, would hope for the best, but > > offered no guarantees. so i took a huge chance. i got the modified UPPP > (not > > because it is standard practice, but because my soft palate and uvula were > > low in my throat – almost resting on the base of my tongue), and i had the > > genioglossus advancement. the surgeon thought that would be the most > > beneficial approach. > > well, i had great results (better than the surgeon had hoped for, > actually). > > my RDI’s went from 96 to 12. i feel fantastic. i haven’t noticed my > > personality changes, but my family and friends say i am a different person > > now, calm, relaxed… > > i know i still have some apnea (RDI 12), but it’s not so bad now. i wish i > > could have got used to the cpap, but i am not sorry i had the surgery. i > do > > have some surgery side effects – swallowing felt strange initially and my > > lower teeth still have some numbness (from the GTA). i have read some > posts > > that the surgery results may be not last, but i feel great at the moment, > > better than i have felt in many many years, so i am just gonna be happy > > about that. > > as far as cpap after surgery.. not only did i tolerate the cpap, but when > i > > had the post-op sleep study done, they strapped a cpap on me at 4am > (because > > i had a few anpeas) and i had REM sleep the entire time on the cpap! (as > to > > why i could use the cpap during the sleep study and not at home? they > > strapped it on me when i was asleep, and i had been given a sleep med as > > well – but wow, that cpap does work well if you can sleep get to sleep > with > > it) > > bottom line, talk to a good, no, great sleep doc, research your options. > > there are a lot of knife happy docs, not many who know shit at about sleep > > apnea. > > take care and good luck!! > > "Jeff" <adem…@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > news:6d859c39.0408151908.292aa964@posting.google.com… > > > Hello, > > > I am ecstatic that there is a newsgroup dedicated to supporting people > > > with sleep apnea!  I was diagnosed a year ago with severe OSA.  I am > > > convinced that my apnea began at age 13 and now I am 34 going on 35. > > > The results of my sleep tests showed that I stopped breathing 52 times > > > an hour during non REM sleep and 72 times an hour during REM sleep. > > > I have the ResMed S7 CPAP machine and just cannot get used to it.  I > > > am thinking of undergoing UPPP surgery, whereby the surgeon removes > > > part of the soft palette and tonsils.  I was told that the success > > > rate of this operation is at best 50% and that the OSA may actually > > > get worse after the operation.  I am still leaning towards having this > > > operation done because that CPAP has only a very marginal benefit for > > > me.  I can usually only sleep part of the night with it on. > > > I would like to hear from someone who has had this operation to see > > > whether the apnea was alleviated and if so, to what degree.  Does one > > > still have to use the CPAP machine after the operation?  How long did > > > it take before the post operative pain disappeared? > > > Best Regards, > > > Jeff

Response:

some points, Jeff 1.  the success rate of 50% is very high for your Dr’s practice…… overall the success rate is lower than that 2.  my sleep apnea is CAUSED by a very similar procedure (removal of the uvula soft tissue, tonsils, etc) for another problem i had (which just recurred anyway) 3.  it take stubborn pig headed muleness to adjust to the mask on your face at night….. or at least it did for me… others take to it like a duck to water………… do you have a mask alert function that will tell you when the mask has ‘magically levitated’ off your face????/ then calmly put the mask back on and hit the ramp button again……… it takes time, but you CAN do it! 4.  within less than 5 years, most people who have the surgery are facing CPAP treatment again OR they are going for a trach operation good luck with whatever you choose kate – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Jeff" <com> wrote in message .com… > Hello, > I am ecstatic that there is a newsgroup dedicated to supporting people > with sleep apnea!  I was diagnosed a year ago with severe OSA.  I am > convinced that my apnea began at age 13 and now I am 34 going on 35. > The results of my sleep tests showed that I stopped breathing 52 times > an hour during non REM sleep and 72 times an hour during REM sleep. > I have the ResMed S7 CPAP machine and just cannot get used to it.  I > am thinking of undergoing UPPP surgery, whereby the surgeon removes > part of the soft palette and tonsils.  I was told that the success > rate of this operation is at best 50% and that the OSA may actually > get worse after the operation.  I am still leaning towards having this > operation done because that CPAP has only a very marginal benefit for > me.  I can usually only sleep part of the night with it on. > I would like to hear from someone who has had this operation to see > whether the apnea was alleviated and if so, to what degree.  Does one > still have to use the CPAP machine after the operation?  How long did > it take before the post operative pain disappeared? > Best Regards, > Jeff

Response:

I had a UPPP, tonsilectomy (they grew back after childhood removal) and removal of nasal polyps/correction of deviated septum about 18 months ago. The results were significant. My apnea episodes were reduced to only occuring during REM sleep, snoring was reduced by about 50% and I felt great.  No drifting off during the day or waking up tired.  That said, based on the continued apnea during REM sleep, my doctor suggested a genioglossus tongue advancement which I had done last Tuesday. A Hyoid Suspension was not indicated as my hyoid bone is already far forward.  Although I’m still recuperating (painlessly) from the procedure, my wife reports that the operation seems to have provided additional relief in that I’m not snoring at all when in bed. She reported "heavy breathing/minor snoring" when I fell asleep in the recliner yesterday.  As posted elsewhere, I will update the group as time goes on and my mouth has fully healed.  Regarding long term post op side effects of the UPPP, there were none for me.  No holes in my throat, no change in taste or difficulty swallowing. Initially, there was some learning curve on swallowing. I found that it was easy to inhale while eating and suck something down the wrong pipe. I either learned to deal with this automatically or the condition resolved itself over time.  The biggest benefit was the removal of nasal polyps. Breathing through my nose is just so much easier – like jet engine intakes now!  As with any surgical procedure, choice of surgeon is of paramount importance.  Mine was done in Houston by Dr. Charles Katz of The Texas Medical Center (St. Lukes) who I highly recommend.  Although I could have had it done locally in Honolulu, I was impressed with his skills and the technology used there. "Jeff" <adem…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:6d859c39.0408151908.292aa964@posting.google.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello, > I am ecstatic that there is a newsgroup dedicated to supporting people > with sleep apnea!  I was diagnosed a year ago with severe OSA.  I am > convinced that my apnea began at age 13 and now I am 34 going on 35. > The results of my sleep tests showed that I stopped breathing 52 times > an hour during non REM sleep and 72 times an hour during REM sleep. > I have the ResMed S7 CPAP machine and just cannot get used to it.  I > am thinking of undergoing UPPP surgery, whereby the surgeon removes > part of the soft palette and tonsils.  I was told that the success > rate of this operation is at best 50% and that the OSA may actually > get worse after the operation.  I am still leaning towards having this > operation done because that CPAP has only a very marginal benefit for > me.  I can usually only sleep part of the night with it on. > I would like to hear from someone who has had this operation to see > whether the apnea was alleviated and if so, to what degree.  Does one > still have to use the CPAP machine after the operation?  How long did > it take before the post operative pain disappeared? > Best Regards, > Jeff

Response:

> I would like to hear from someone who has had this operation to see > whether the apnea was alleviated and if so, to what degree.  Does one > still have to use the CPAP machine after the operation?  How long did > it take before the post operative pain disappeared?

there are some things that can help you adjust to CPAP – if you explain what problems you’re having we may be able to help you. Wouldn’t recommend the surgery in a million years! — Beth in Australia (I am not a qualified medical professional and unless I quote sources anything posted by me is my opinion only and you should always check with your doctor) ============================================= Sleep Disorders Newsgroup FAQ Website http://talhost.net/sleep Newsgroup archives http://www.talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm =============================================

Response:

"Jeff" <adem…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:6d859c39.0408151908.292aa964@posting.google.com… > Hello, > I am ecstatic that there is a newsgroup dedicated to supporting people > with sleep apnea!  I was diagnosed a year ago with severe OSA.  I am > convinced that my apnea began at age 13 and now I am 34 going on 35. > The results of my sleep tests showed that I stopped breathing 52 times > an hour during non REM sleep and 72 times an hour during REM sleep. > I have the ResMed S7 CPAP machine and just cannot get used to it.  I > am thinking of undergoing UPPP surgery, whereby the surgeon removes > part of the soft palette and tonsils.  I was told that the success > rate of this operation is at best 50% and that the OSA may actually

That’s a lie someone told you. The success rate of the operation is less than 25% and of the success cases, almost all get less than 40% relief from sleep apnea. Of those who do get relief, more often than not the fat grows back. In every case there is the chance that you will lose your ability to swallow properly, have holes in the back of your throat that food gets in to and you need to stick your finger in to get out and some have lost their sense of taste. All in all, if someone is telling you to get that operation, they are telling you the wrong thing. Stick with the CPAP as long as you can and if no good, talk to the doctor about a tracheostomy. It is the only operation worth considering, is totally reversible and leaves you with no bad side effects. No other surgery is worth considering for sleep apnea.

Response:

Hello, I am ecstatic that there is a newsgroup dedicated to supporting people with sleep apnea!  I was diagnosed a year ago with severe OSA.  I am convinced that my apnea began at age 13 and now I am 34 going on 35. The results of my sleep tests showed that I stopped breathing 52 times an hour during non REM sleep and 72 times an hour during REM sleep. I have the ResMed S7 CPAP machine and just cannot get used to it.  I am thinking of undergoing UPPP surgery, whereby the surgeon removes part of the soft palette and tonsils.  I was told that the success rate of this operation is at best 50% and that the OSA may actually get worse after the operation.  I am still leaning towards having this operation done because that CPAP has only a very marginal benefit for me.  I can usually only sleep part of the night with it on. I would like to hear from someone who has had this operation to see whether the apnea was alleviated and if so, to what degree.  Does one still have to use the CPAP machine after the operation?  How long did it take before the post operative pain disappeared? Best Regards, Jeff

Response:

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