Sleeping Disorder » Parasomnias

Any Medication to curb Dreaming?

admin — Sun, 13 Mar 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

That amount of REM is below average. Normal for that amount of sleep would be 83-120 minutes. I doubt that reducing your dreams is going to help you feel any better. I hope you’re discussing this with your doctor (preferably a sleep specialist). I hope you can figure out what’s going on. Please keep us posted–whether you succeed or fail it provides the rest of us with useful information. Incidentally, how much Stage III/IV sleep did you get in your study? Good luck!

Response:

wrote in message

news:1111077025.806217.42900@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com… > That amount of REM is below average. Normal for that amount of sleep > would be 83-120 minutes. I doubt that reducing your dreams is going to > help you feel any better. I hope you’re discussing this with your > doctor (preferably a sleep specialist). I hope you can figure out > what’s going on. Please keep us posted–whether you succeed or fail it > provides the rest of us with useful information. > Incidentally, how much Stage III/IV sleep did you get in your study? > Good luck!

I dont trust that Sleep Test…I was told that all looked normal. That particular night I didnt sleep as well and dont remember dreaming that much anyway, probably because of my suroundings.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Essb wrote: > wrote in message > news:1111077025.806217.42900@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com… >>That amount of REM is below average. Normal for that amount of sleep >>would be 83-120 minutes. I doubt that reducing your dreams is going to >>help you feel any better. I hope you’re discussing this with your >>doctor (preferably a sleep specialist). I hope you can figure out >>what’s going on. Please keep us posted–whether you succeed or fail it >>provides the rest of us with useful information. >>Incidentally, how much Stage III/IV sleep did you get in your study? >>Good luck! > I dont trust that Sleep Test…I was told that all looked normal. That > particular night I didnt sleep as well and dont remember dreaming that > much anyway, probably because of my suroundings.

IIRC, someone once posted that there were around 40 sleep disorders. You have taken some kind of home test that evidently checked for one, OSA. You say it was negative for OSA. But, how about the other sleep disorders?

Response:

"normc" wrote in message

news:1111123038.3cfc15b375341138ff1c56ebb02be5f1@teranews… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Essb wrote: > > wrote in message > > news:1111077025.806217.42900@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com… > >>That amount of REM is below average. Normal for that amount of sleep > >>would be 83-120 minutes. I doubt that reducing your dreams is going to > >>help you feel any better. I hope you’re discussing this with your > >>doctor (preferably a sleep specialist). I hope you can figure out > >>what’s going on. Please keep us posted–whether you succeed or fail it > >>provides the rest of us with useful information. > >>Incidentally, how much Stage III/IV sleep did you get in your study? > >>Good luck! > > I dont trust that Sleep Test…I was told that all looked normal. That > > particular night I didnt sleep as well and dont remember dreaming that > > much anyway, probably because of my suroundings. > IIRC, someone once posted that there were around 40 sleep > disorders. You have taken some kind of home test that > evidently checked for one, OSA. > You say it was negative for OSA. But, how about the other > sleep disorders?

I come to find out later that it was mainly for Sleep Apnea, I thought I was being tested any and all disorders cuz I never even thought I had sleep apnea anyway. Should I request another test if so what type?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Essb wrote: > "normc" wrote in message > news:1111123038.3cfc15b375341138ff1c56ebb02be5f1@teranews… >>Essb wrote: >>> wrote in message >>>news:1111077025.806217.42900@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com… >>>>That amount of REM is below average. Normal for that amount of sleep >>>>would be 83-120 minutes. I doubt that reducing your dreams is going to >>>>help you feel any better. I hope you’re discussing this with your >>>>doctor (preferably a sleep specialist). I hope you can figure out >>>>what’s going on. Please keep us posted–whether you succeed or fail it >>>>provides the rest of us with useful information. >>>>Incidentally, how much Stage III/IV sleep did you get in your study? >>>>Good luck! >>>I dont trust that Sleep Test…I was told that all looked normal. That >>>particular night I didnt sleep as well and dont remember dreaming > that >>>much anyway, probably because of my suroundings. >>IIRC, someone once posted that there were around 40 sleep >>disorders. You have taken some kind of home test that >>evidently checked for one, OSA. >>You say it was negative for OSA. But, how about the other >>sleep disorders? > I come to find out later that it was mainly for Sleep Apnea, I thought I > was being tested any and all disorders cuz I never even thought I had > sleep apnea anyway.

I was afraid of that! > Should I request another test?

Absolutely. > If so what type?

A polysomnogram (PSG). TTBOMK, this can only be done in a sleep lab. It’s no big deal, especially if you feel like crap and hope to feel better. Keep in touch.

Response:

"normc" wrote in message

news:1111196862.6d539dca9645eff18f6d41009ca27a68@teranews… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Essb wrote: > > "normc" wrote in message > > news:1111123038.3cfc15b375341138ff1c56ebb02be5f1@teranews… > >>Essb wrote: > >>> wrote in message > >>>news:1111077025.806217.42900@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com… > >>>>That amount of REM is below average. Normal for that amount of sleep > >>>>would be 83-120 minutes. I doubt that reducing your dreams is going to > >>>>help you feel any better. I hope you’re discussing this with your > >>>>doctor (preferably a sleep specialist). I hope you can figure out > >>>>what’s going on. Please keep us posted–whether you succeed or fail it > >>>>provides the rest of us with useful information. > >>>>Incidentally, how much Stage III/IV sleep did you get in your study? > >>>>Good luck! > >>>I dont trust that Sleep Test…I was told that all looked normal. That > >>>particular night I didnt sleep as well and dont remember dreaming > > that > >>>much anyway, probably because of my suroundings. > >>IIRC, someone once posted that there were around 40 sleep > >>disorders. You have taken some kind of home test that > >>evidently checked for one, OSA. > >>You say it was negative for OSA. But, how about the other > >>sleep disorders? > > I come to find out later that it was mainly for Sleep Apnea, I thought I > > was being tested any and all disorders cuz I never even thought I had > > sleep apnea anyway. > I was afraid of that! > > Should I request another test? > Absolutely. > > If so what type? > A polysomnogram (PSG). TTBOMK, this can only be done in a > sleep lab. It’s no big deal, especially if you feel like > crap and hope to feel better. > Keep in touch.

OK I will make that request to my Doc, hopefully my insurance will cover it again. What exactly does this test do and check for? What software is mostly used for it? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Essb wrote: > "normc" wrote in message > news:1111196862.6d539dca9645eff18f6d41009ca27a68@teranews… >>Essb wrote: >>>"normc" wrote in message >>>news:1111123038.3cfc15b375341138ff1c56ebb02be5f1@teranews… >>>>Essb wrote: >>>>> wrote in message >>>>>news:1111077025.806217.42900@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com… >>>>>>That amount of REM is below average. Normal for that amount of sleep >>>>>>would be 83-120 minutes. I doubt that reducing your dreams is going to >>>>>>help you feel any better. I hope you’re discussing this with your >>>>>>doctor (preferably a sleep specialist). I hope you can figure out >>>>>>what’s going on. Please keep us posted–whether you succeed or fail it >>>>>>provides the rest of us with useful information. >>>>>>Incidentally, how much Stage III/IV sleep did you get in your study? >>>>>>Good luck! >>>>>I dont trust that Sleep Test…I was told that all looked normal. That >>>>>particular night I didnt sleep as well and dont remember dreaming >>>that >>>>>much anyway, probably because of my suroundings. >>>>IIRC, someone once posted that there were around 40 sleep >>>>disorders. You have taken some kind of home test that >>>>evidently checked for one, OSA. >>>>You say it was negative for OSA. But, how about the other >>>>sleep disorders? >>>I come to find out later that it was mainly for Sleep Apnea, I > thought I >>>was being tested any and all disorders cuz I never even thought I > had >>>sleep apnea anyway. >>I was afraid of that! >>>Should I request another test? >>Absolutely. >>>If so what type? >>A polysomnogram (PSG). TTBOMK, this can only be done in a >>sleep lab. It’s no big deal, especially if you feel like >>crap and hope to feel better. >>Keep in touch. > OK I will make that request to my Doc, hopefully my insurance will > cover it again.

It IS NOT ‘again’. They saved money by gambling that you only had sleep apnea. They lost. Now they have to pay for a complete sleep disorders test. What exactly does this test do and check for? What software is mostly used for it? To answer these questions, GOOGLE polysomnogram, or just start here: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003932.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

wrote in message

news:1110990731.095256.88530@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com… > Essb wrote: Already had sleep test which showed no abnormality. > How much REM sleep did your sleep test show you had during the night? > How much time in other sleep stages? How many arousals/awakenings did > the test show? More information on your sleep study would be helpful.

6 hrs of sleep, 55 min. of rem. Tested using the Sandman software.

Response:

"normc" wrote in message

news:1111004284.d1a6cff3fb450a523e4a542a6d2219fb@teranews… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> What kind of ’sleep test’? Polysomnogram in a lab? > Essb wrote: > > Already had sleep test which showed no abnormality. > > wrote in message > > news:1110824294.833572.230770@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com… > >>The symptoms you describe could be signs of an underlying sleep > >>disorder. If your sleep is disturbed during a dream you are more likely > >>to remember the dream, even though you may not remember the > >>disturbance. It may be this sleep disordre that is causing you to wake > >>feeling "drained". A few conditions that might cause sleep > >>disturbances: > >>Sleep Apnea: http://talhost.net/sleep/apnea.htm > >>Restless Leg Syndrom (RLS)/PLMD: http://www.4woman.gov/faq/rls.htm > >>Parasomnias: http://www.postgradmed.com/issues/2000/03_00/schenck.htm > >>Please be aware that it is possible for you to be completely unaware > >>that your sleep is being disturbed. I would have bet $1 million that I > >>didn’t have sleep apnea–and later found out it was interrupting my > >>sleep 70 times an hour. Also be aware that sleep disorders can cause > >>severe health problems if left untreated including depression, > >>diabetes, heart disease, and much more. > >>You need to speak with your doctor about your problem. If indicated a > >>sleep study may be in order, which could track your sleep stages > >>including REM sleep and any disturbances or sleep problems. > >>Disclaimer: I am not a doctor, but I play one on the Internet.

Sleep Apnea study, never thought I had it and didnt. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

I dream to much and wake up mentally drained. Any medication that cuts down on dreaming?

Response:

"Essb" wrote in message

news:1139u8o31sf2i8b@corp.supernews.com… >I dream to much and wake up mentally drained. Any medication that cuts >down > on dreaming?

If you want to reduce dreaming, you need to get rid of REM sleep. Try Zoloft or Prozac, or one of the other anti-depressants.

Response:

The symptoms you describe could be signs of an underlying sleep disorder. If your sleep is disturbed during a dream you are more likely to remember the dream, even though you may not remember the disturbance. It may be this sleep disordre that is causing you to wake feeling "drained". A few conditions that might cause sleep disturbances: Sleep Apnea: http://talhost.net/sleep/apnea.htm Restless Leg Syndrom (RLS)/PLMD: http://www.4woman.gov/faq/rls.htm Parasomnias: http://www.postgradmed.com/issues/2000/03_00/schenck.htm Please be aware that it is possible for you to be completely unaware that your sleep is being disturbed. I would have bet $1 million that I didn’t have sleep apnea–and later found out it was interrupting my sleep 70 times an hour. Also be aware that sleep disorders can cause severe health problems if left untreated including depression, diabetes, heart disease, and much more. You need to speak with your doctor about your problem. If indicated a sleep study may be in order, which could track your sleep stages including REM sleep and any disturbances or sleep problems. Disclaimer: I am not a doctor, but I play one on the Internet.

Response:

The drugs that supress REM are Zoloft ,Prozac and wellbutrin for example . You will still have a REM at 5 am for the most part even on those Drugs. Like lanranger said you most likely have REM related OSA .

Response:

Dreaming isn’t the problem. I would call your problem "nonrefreshing sleep" and, as lanranger suggested, it’s likely that your are waking frequently during the night without realizing/remembering it. You need a sleep study.

Response:

Already had sleep test which showed no abnormality. wrote in message

news:1110824294.833572.230770@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The symptoms you describe could be signs of an underlying sleep > disorder. If your sleep is disturbed during a dream you are more likely > to remember the dream, even though you may not remember the > disturbance. It may be this sleep disordre that is causing you to wake > feeling "drained". A few conditions that might cause sleep > disturbances: > Sleep Apnea: http://talhost.net/sleep/apnea.htm > Restless Leg Syndrom (RLS)/PLMD: http://www.4woman.gov/faq/rls.htm > Parasomnias: http://www.postgradmed.com/issues/2000/03_00/schenck.htm > Please be aware that it is possible for you to be completely unaware > that your sleep is being disturbed. I would have bet $1 million that I > didn’t have sleep apnea–and later found out it was interrupting my > sleep 70 times an hour. Also be aware that sleep disorders can cause > severe health problems if left untreated including depression, > diabetes, heart disease, and much more. > You need to speak with your doctor about your problem. If indicated a > sleep study may be in order, which could track your sleep stages > including REM sleep and any disturbances or sleep problems. > Disclaimer: I am not a doctor, but I play one on the Internet.

Response:

What kind of ’sleep test’? Polysomnogram in a lab? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Essb wrote: > Already had sleep test which showed no abnormality. > wrote in message > news:1110824294.833572.230770@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com… >>The symptoms you describe could be signs of an underlying sleep >>disorder. If your sleep is disturbed during a dream you are more likely >>to remember the dream, even though you may not remember the >>disturbance. It may be this sleep disordre that is causing you to wake >>feeling "drained". A few conditions that might cause sleep >>disturbances: >>Sleep Apnea: http://talhost.net/sleep/apnea.htm >>Restless Leg Syndrom (RLS)/PLMD: http://www.4woman.gov/faq/rls.htm >>Parasomnias: http://www.postgradmed.com/issues/2000/03_00/schenck.htm >>Please be aware that it is possible for you to be completely unaware >>that your sleep is being disturbed. I would have bet $1 million that I >>didn’t have sleep apnea–and later found out it was interrupting my >>sleep 70 times an hour. Also be aware that sleep disorders can cause >>severe health problems if left untreated including depression, >>diabetes, heart disease, and much more. >>You need to speak with your doctor about your problem. If indicated a >>sleep study may be in order, which could track your sleep stages >>including REM sleep and any disturbances or sleep problems. >>Disclaimer: I am not a doctor, but I play one on the Internet.

Response:

Essb wrote: Already had sleep test which showed no abnormality.

How much REM sleep did your sleep test show you had during the night? How much time in other sleep stages? How many arousals/awakenings did the test show? More information on your sleep study would be helpful.

Response:

NIghtTerror? Morning Terror

admin — Mon, 13 Jan 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Celcius wrote: > Thanks for the information Bear. There are quite a bit of chemicals in > the garage. Wiether they are sealed properly is another question.

Just reminded me that you also have to check to see that chemcial containers stored for long period in garage have not corroded and are very slowing leaking fumes into the garage and into your bedroom. HTH – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I > have felt small draft coming from the corner where the floor meets the > wall. I am going to fill it with Mono expanding sealent. > I will invest in a carbon monoxide detector Judy. > thanks all > Judy Simon wrote in message … > > The Somnolent Phantom wrote: > > > x-no-archive: yes > > > Celcius wrote: > > >>I am having intense horrible dreams. Ones in which I can’t talk and > > >>with a deep feeling of terror. I don’t think they are night terrors > > >>since they happen well into the night and sometimes early morning. > > > Night terrors can occur at any time during your sleep. They are > > > sometimes associated with disruption/ abnormality in REM (Rapid Eye > > > Movement) sleep. > > >>They began when I moved into another room in my house that has a > > >>history of unrestful sleep > > > Please explain. > > > What happens when you sleep in another room? > > >>. This room in over the garage could the > > >>fumes of the car be giving me these dreams? > > > Possible. Are there gas or solvent fumes in the garage? Is there a car > > > running while you are sleeping., CO2 can be deadly. > > >>I know it sounds silly. > > > Not at all. Night Terrors and nightmares are recognized sleep > > > disorders. They fall under a heading of sleep disorders called > > > parasomnias. They are VERY *real* > > > I would suggest that you try sleeping in another room (or house) for a > > > few nights. If the bad dreams continue, I would suggest that you see a > > > psychiatrist that has sleep medicine training and experience. > > > Best Wishes, Bear > > I would also suggest the OP get a carbon monoxide detector > > Judy

Response:

Thanks for the information Bear. There are quite a bit of chemicals in the garage. Wiether they are sealed properly is another question. I have felt small draft coming from the corner where the floor meets the wall. I am going to fill it with Mono expanding sealent. I will invest in a carbon monoxide detector Judy. thanks all – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Judy Simon wrote in message … > The Somnolent Phantom wrote: > > x-no-archive: yes > > Celcius wrote: > >>I am having intense horrible dreams. Ones in which I can’t talk and > >>with a deep feeling of terror. I don’t think they are night terrors > >>since they happen well into the night and sometimes early morning. > > Night terrors can occur at any time during your sleep. They are > > sometimes associated with disruption/ abnormality in REM (Rapid Eye > > Movement) sleep. > >>They began when I moved into another room in my house that has a > >>history of unrestful sleep > > Please explain. > > What happens when you sleep in another room? > >>. This room in over the garage could the > >>fumes of the car be giving me these dreams? > > Possible. Are there gas or solvent fumes in the garage? Is there a car > > running while you are sleeping., CO2 can be deadly. > >>I know it sounds silly. > > Not at all. Night Terrors and nightmares are recognized sleep > > disorders. They fall under a heading of sleep disorders called > > parasomnias. They are VERY *real* > > I would suggest that you try sleeping in another room (or house) for a > > few nights. If the bad dreams continue, I would suggest that you see a > > psychiatrist that has sleep medicine training and experience. > > Best Wishes, Bear > I would also suggest the OP get a carbon monoxide detector > Judy

Response:

I am having intense horrible dreams. Ones in which I can’t talk and with a deep feeling of terror. I don’t think they are night terrors since they happen well into the night and sometimes early morning. They began when I moved into another room in my house that has a history of unrestful sleep. This room in over the garage could the fumes of the car be giving me these dreams? I know it sounds silly.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The Somnolent Phantom wrote: > x-no-archive: yes > Celcius wrote: >>I am having intense horrible dreams. Ones in which I can’t talk and >>with a deep feeling of terror. I don’t think they are night terrors >>since they happen well into the night and sometimes early morning. > Night terrors can occur at any time during your sleep. They are > sometimes associated with disruption/ abnormality in REM (Rapid Eye > Movement) sleep. >>They began when I moved into another room in my house that has a >>history of unrestful sleep > Please explain. > What happens when you sleep in another room? >>. This room in over the garage could the >>fumes of the car be giving me these dreams? > Possible. Are there gas or solvent fumes in the garage? Is there a car > running while you are sleeping., CO2 can be deadly. >>I know it sounds silly. > Not at all. Night Terrors and nightmares are recognized sleep > disorders. They fall under a heading of sleep disorders called > parasomnias. They are VERY *real* > I would suggest that you try sleeping in another room (or house) for a > few nights. If the bad dreams continue, I would suggest that you see a > psychiatrist that has sleep medicine training and experience. > Best Wishes, Bear

I would also suggest the OP get a carbon monoxide detector Judy

Response:

Does anyone else have 'explosions in the head' when dropping off to sleep

admin — Wed, 25 Jul 2001 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I have started having ‘explosions’ in the head when dropping off to sleep. It feels like a gun has fired in my head and I physically jerk around. It is very frightening. I did see in some menopause discussion, mention of this phenomena. Anyone else out there know what this is? and if it is connected with the menopause? Thanks, Jan

Response:

I have a similar experience. I get, every now and then, a sudden loud noise in my head just while drifting off that jerks me awake. I guess you can call it an explosion. It’s in my ears, loud. I never linked it to meno since I’ve experienced this since my 20’s. I wonder what causes it? It doesn’t happen often, very rarely actually, and no pattern I can discern. Gina Marie "Janev" wrote in message

news:7houltgjphcdfqk357n5s6sbbgbcjs5807@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have started having ‘explosions’ in the head when dropping off to > sleep. It feels like a gun has fired in my head and I physically jerk > around. It is very frightening. I did see in some menopause > discussion, mention of this phenomena. Anyone else out there know > what this is? and if it is connected with the menopause? > Thanks, Jan

Response:

It has a name – it’s called a "sleep start" or "hypnic movement" and is a common sleep disorder that happens in that halfway state between waking and sleeping. Although they can be frightening and pretty damn annoying, they are normally considered to be relatively harmless. Here are a couple of urls with a bit more information: http://www.natsleep.com//resourses/res7f.htm http://www.evms.edu/sleep/disorders-parasomnias.html http://www.discovery.com/area/skinnyon/skinnyon971114/skinnyon.html I get them every now and then, too – but I have for as long as I can remember. Mine are usually accompanied by a sensation of falling. Jan, If yours started suddenly and are occuring frequently, you might want to discuss it with your doctor. FurPaw – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Gina wrote: > I have a similar experience. I get, every now and then, a sudden loud noise > in my head just while drifting off that jerks me awake. I guess you can > call it an explosion. It’s in my ears, loud. I never linked it to meno > since I’ve experienced this since my 20’s. I wonder what causes it? > It doesn’t happen often, very rarely actually, and no pattern I can discern. > Gina Marie > "Janev" wrote in message > news:7houltgjphcdfqk357n5s6sbbgbcjs5807@4ax.com… > > I have started having ‘explosions’ in the head when dropping off to > > sleep. It feels like a gun has fired in my head and I physically jerk > > around. It is very frightening. I did see in some menopause > > discussion, mention of this phenomena. Anyone else out there know > > what this is? and if it is connected with the menopause? > > Thanks, Jan

Response:

>From: Janev newc…@syd.comcen.com.au >Date: 7/25/01 5:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time >I have started having ‘explosions’ in the head when dropping off to >sleep. It feels like a gun has fired in my head and I physically jerk >around. It is very frightening. I did see in some menopause >discussion, mention of this phenomena. Anyone else out there know >what this is? and if it is connected with the menopause? >Thanks, Jan

Yup. Have had those. Often accompanies a dream where I’m falling. Sharon…I live in Another Dimension, but I have a summer home in Reality

Response:

Furpaw writes, >It has a name – it’s called a "sleep start" or "hypnic movement" and is >a common sleep disorder that happens in that halfway state between >waking and sleeping. Although they can be frightening and pretty damn >annoying, they are normally considered to be relatively harmless.

Thanks Furpaw! I never told anyone about them, I thought it was a personal *weird* thing. But this makes sense. I was diagnosied with sleep disorder about 2 years ago. I always had bad sleeping patterns. I would only sleep for one hour intervals then wake. I never thought it a problem since I usually feel right back to sleep but when I started peri, I told my doc about it, (since it was getting worse) and he told me that it wasn’t good *sleep*. He said you need a good 3-4 hours straight sleep in order to reach rem sleep. (or something like that) It was one of the reasons I was put on Klonopin at night, to help me sleep. Great information here, thanks again. Gina Marie

Response:

xanax dosage question

admin — Fri, 07 May 1999 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

snipped As far as ProSom (estazolam), Restoril (temazepam), Dalmane (flurazepam), Halcion (triazolam), Mogadon (nitrazepam), etc. go – these aren’t any better than any other benzo for sleep; it’s totally a matter of marketing. Valium, Klonopin, and Ativan are used for sleep a lot as well.

When I first developed PD I was on 5mg of Valium 3 times a day for some weeks while tests were being done to rule out other causes. For the first 2 weeks I slept about 20 hours in every 24, but by the end of the fourth week they were having only a slight sedating effect. Mogodon OTAH was still capable of putting me out cold for nearly 24 hours and it took another day to regain normal alertness. In my case at least this is not a med I want to mess with!! -elizabeth

Ian

Response:

deletethis writes: When I first developed PD I was on 5mg of Valium 3 times a day for some weeks while tests were being done to rule out other causes. For the first 2 weeks I slept about 20 hours in every 24, but by the end of the fourth week they were having only a slight sedating effect. Mogodon OTAH was still capable of putting me out cold for nearly 24 hours and it took another day to regain normal alertness. In my case at least this is not a med I want to mess with!!

Heh – try Zyprexa (olanzapine)! Low doses: nice and calming. Higher doses (for me, 10mg or so): out like a light. -elizabeth

Response:

writes: Dalmane also. It is a strong hypnotic as well as a sedative, with a very long half-life. It can’t be used unless you’re willing to lose the next day.

It’s no "stronger" than any other benzo – it’s a YMMV thing which one will work for a particular person. Since Dalmane is marketed as a hypnotic, the doses recommended are probably high relative to equipotent benzos marketed as anxiolytics. I’ve never tried Dalmane, but Valium and Librium are examples of long-half-life benzos that are not sedating for me at all – although there are many people who take Valium as a sleeping pill. Also, because of poor distribution, most benzos don’t have a *duration of action* that’s as long as you would expect from their half-lives, and this is variable from drug to drug as well. There is more to qualitative differences between benzos than just marketing, or half-life. Each one has its unique properties, that may make it the right med for any particular person. IMO this field is wide open. We just don’t know enough about why people have differing reactions to drugs in the same pharmacological class.

They do have differences, but it’s impossible to say "this is a more sedating benzo in general than others" about any one benzo – what you can say is "this one is more sedating *for a particular person* than others." -elizabeth

Response:

You *can* (probably will, actually) develop tolerance to Xanax if you’re taking it for *insomnia* (i.e., as a sedative), though. Benzos aren’t very good meds for long-term insomnia for this reason. That is exactly what Xanax is prescribed to me for–a sleep aid—Im also taking 40mgs of Prozac a day for deppression (first time on any type of AD) Anyone think of a better sleep aid??? I am to take 1mg at night before bed but usually take half a pill—sometimes a whole pill…. Thanks for any response

Xanax is totally unsuited as a sleeping aid. So are most other benzos. Ambien is the med of choice. If that doesn’t work for some exotic reason you might want to try Trazodone, an antidepressant in its own right but often prescribed at a los dose as an adjunct med for sleeping. IMO. FWIW. Philip

Response:

writes: This is not necessarily true. Xanax, especially prn, can have a sedative effect and aid sleep.

I agree; if you don’t have insomnia all the time, Xanax is reasonable. I’ve used it for this, in fact. However, I think that if you use it every day, there’s a good chance it will stop working and you will experience rebound insomnia, though…I’m not so convinced that this will take that long (half-life of Xanax is around 11 hours). As far as ProSom (estazolam), Restoril (temazepam), Dalmane (flurazepam), Halcion (triazolam), Mogadon (nitrazepam), etc. go – these aren’t any better than any other benzo for sleep; it’s totally a matter of marketing. Valium, Klonopin, and Ativan are used for sleep a lot as well. (Klonopin is also used for some types of sleep disorders (parasomnias) – I used it when my REM sleep behavior disorder was bad, but Parnate controls that now.) -elizabeth

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snip] Xanax is totally unsuited as a sleeping aid. So are most other benzos. Ambien is the med of choice. If that doesn’t work for some exotic reason you might want to try Trazodone, an antidepressant in its own right but often prescribed at a los dose as an adjunct med for sleeping. IMO. FWIW. Philip Philip, This is not necessarily true. Xanax, especially prn, can have a sedative effect and aid sleep. It may not the best benzo if all that is wanted is a sedative effect. When I saw a sleep specialist for insomnia, he wanted me to stop using Ambien as a sedative and switch to estazolam, which is a benzo used often as a sedative. Restoril is another benzo often used as a sleep aid. Dalmane is yet another benzo used as a sedative, although I would not recommend using this one unless you’re planning to sleep for about 2 days. Tolerance to sedative effects of Xanax will likely take a very long time to develop (if at all) if it’s only taken once a day at bedtime. In order to develop tolerance, you really need to be on a steady dose, several times daily, at least according to the docs I’ve talked to. Time to remember YMMV. Xanax is a perfectly reasonable sedative, although based on the advice of the sleep specialist I talked to, estazolam might be better. Please exercise great care when telling someone not to use a med prescribed by his doctor. If Xanax is the right med for this particular individual’s sleep problem, he should not be discouraged from using it. Moe

I stand corrected. You are quite right. When thinking benzos are bad sleeping aids compared to other meds I really erroneously thought only of benzos used for PD while my own mother has been taking nitrazepam for years with good results. I also agree that Xanax may be the right med for someone although I have a hard time believing it’s a first choice med in this respect. But, as you say, YMMV. Rereading my own post I find it much too lapidary. Thanks for setting this straight. Philip

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My question is about xanax; the ativan didn’t work and my pdoc put me on 3 mgs of xanax as needed. My question is, is this a normal dosage? I’d like to keep my meds as simple as possible. Any feedback would be appreciated. Well here’s a simple answer — If three mg’s of Xanax works for you, than yes it’s a normal dose. Thank you! Your Welcome!

::smile:: Thanks for the supportive post. And it’s true. All meds are a YMMV thing. Like "Death" said, if 3 mgs works for you, then it’s the right dose. Regards, Jen

Response:

Hi Philip, I meant that I can take up to 3 mgs of xanax a day as necessary. Thanks, roja – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m on celexa 40 mgs (works wonderfully), and just started depakote at 250 mgs at night. My question is about xanax; the ativan didn’t work and my pdoc put me on 3 mgs of xanax as needed. My question is, is this a normal dosage? I’d like to keep my meds as simple as possible. Any feedback would be appreciated. Thank you! Do you mean by *as needed* that you take 3 mgs of Xanax when a PA is coming on? That sounds like a lot to me. Or do you mean that you take it regularly throughout the day to a total dose of 3 mgs (for instance 3 doses of 1 mg)? That would be standard practice. If you want to lower the dose there is no reason why you shouldn’t experiment with it. Philip roja

Response:

I have taken 2.5 mgs a day for several years but everyone is diffrent. I know someone in a group I attend that took 6mg a day. Though I wouldnt approve that much everyone is diffrent and it is important to remember that xanax is very addictive and the more you take the more your body develops a tolerance….making you need more. But if you take it as needed and safely you can go with the same dose for as long as you need. But of course….a doctor would be the best place to get the answers to your questions concerning meds. Xanman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Philip, I meant that I can take up to 3 mgs of xanax a day as necessary. Thanks, roja I’m on celexa 40 mgs (works wonderfully), and just started depakote at 250 mgs at night. My question is about xanax; the ativan didn’t work and my pdoc put me on 3 mgs of xanax as needed. My question is, is this a normal dosage? I’d like to keep my meds as simple as possible. Any feedback would be appreciated. Thank you! Do you mean by *as needed* that you take 3 mgs of Xanax when a PA is coming on? That sounds like a lot to me. Or do you mean that you take it regularly throughout the day to a total dose of 3 mgs (for instance 3 doses of 1 mg)? That would be standard practice. If you want to lower the dose there is no reason why you shouldn’t experiment with it. Philip roja

Response:

Dear Xanman, With all due respect I have to contradict this once more. It is *very rare* that PD-sufferers develop a tolerance for Xanax and need more and more. It happens but those are the exceptions to the rule. Also see ASAp’s back pages for many discussions of alleged *addiction* vs *dependence*. Here are two URL’s: http://www.cme-reviews.com/PP698_Silberman.html http://lexington-on-line.com/naf_xanax.html where benzodiazepine use and prejudices are discussed as well as how to wean off Xanax. Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Philip, I meant that I can take up to 3 mgs of xanax a day as necessary. Thanks, roja I’m on celexa 40 mgs (works wonderfully), and just started depakote at 250 mgs at night. My question is about xanax; the ativan didn’t work and my pdoc put me on 3 mgs of xanax as needed. My question is, is this a normal dosage? I’d like to keep my meds as simple as possible. Any feedback would be appreciated. Thank you! Do you mean by *as needed* that you take 3 mgs of Xanax when a PA is coming on? That sounds like a lot to me. Or do you mean that you take it regularly throughout the day to a total dose of 3 mgs (for instance 3 doses of 1 mg)? That would be standard practice. If you want to lower the dose there is no reason why you shouldn’t experiment with it. Philip roja

Response:

With all due respect I have to contradict this once more. It is *very rare* that PD-sufferers develop a tolerance for Xanax and need more and more. It happens but those are the exceptions to the rule.

I have to "me too" this post It’s true: people taking therapeutic doses of Xanax for anxiety or panic don’t develop a tolerance except for very occasionally. (People taking antidepressants also very occasionally develop tolerance, or the med "poops out.") You *can* (probably will, actually) develop tolerance to Xanax if you’re taking it for *insomnia* (i.e., as a sedative), though. Benzos aren’t very good meds for long-term insomnia for this reason. -elizabeth

Response:

That is exactly what Xanax is prescribed to me for–a sleep aid—Im also taking 40mgs of Prozac a day for deppression (first time on any type of AD) Anyone think of a better sleep aid??? I am to take 1mg at night before bed but usually take half a pill—sometimes a whole pill…. Thanks for any response

Response:

I’m on celexa 40 mgs (works wonderfully), and just started depakote at 250 mgs at night. My question is about xanax; the ativan didn’t work and my pdoc put me on 3 mgs of xanax as needed. My question is, is this a normal dosage? I’d like to keep my meds as simple as possible. Any feedback would be appreciated. Thank you! roja

Response:

My question is about xanax; the ativan didn’t work and my pdoc put me on 3 mgs of xanax as needed. My question is, is this a normal dosage? I’d like to keep my meds as simple as possible. Any feedback would be appreciated.

Well here’s a simple answer — If three mg’s of Xanax works for you, than yes it’s a normal dose. Thank you!

Your Welcome!

Response:

Do you mean by *as needed* that you take 3 mgs of Xanax when a PA is coming on? That sounds like a lot to me. Or do you mean that you take it regularly throughout the day to a total dose of 3 mgs (for instance 3 doses of 1 mg)? That would be standard practice. If you want to lower the dose there is no reason why you shouldn’t experiment with it. Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – roja

Response:

Dreams and OCD and Depression

admin — Wed, 28 Apr 1999 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

All my life, I have had vivid, intense, in-color dreams, with great dream recall. Except for when I go on SSRIs. That’s one of THE major reasons I HATE taking SSRIs. It’s one of the MAJOR reasons I fully intend to be med-free SOME DAY…

You’d *really* hate MAOIs then! (I soooo miss my dreams. ) Some people have increased sleep fragmentation on SSRIs which also contributes to remembering dreams more. Maybe they don’t do this to you and, combined with the overall suppression of REM, this results in not remembering your dreams. Which SSRIs did you try, and have you ever taken Effexor? (I hear about sleep peculiarities, especially vivid dreaming and REM parasomnias, a lot on that one as well.) Serzone may be a good choice for not altering your natural sleep architecture BTW. -elizabeth

Response:

Thanks, elizabeth. I’ve only tried Paxil, Serzone, Zoloft, Lithium, Xanax, Activan, Valium, and probably a coupla other benzos out there. Fortunately or unfortunately, I dunno, but I will NEVER take Prozac. I was hit too hard with the negative publicity with respect to that med, and that onslaught of negative publicity has carried over to the other SSRIs, as well. I work on it, but I still do not accept the notion that I MUST take drugs in order to maintain any semblance of sanity I might possess at any given time. And I always REFUSED to consider TCAs because of what my belief system was at the time I was presented with the OPPORTUNITY to *consider* such a thing for myself, way back when that was THE class of drugs used to treat depression. No one was talking about *anxiety disorder* or anything like THAT, not when I first started seeing a shrink – which really wasn’t all THAT long ago, it just SEEMS like it was :::sigh::: Seriously, though, I have begun to TINKER with the notion of trying a TCA. The dream stuff is important to me, because of the nature of my beliefs regarding what dreams actually *are.* Very important in my *personal philosophy,* and so here I am — slowly weaning off Zoloft, and trying to *pretend* that I’m not. Truth is, I’m not taking the Zoloft the way I had been up until I started feeling like the More Real Me again. :::very big sigh, and off to the Zoloft bottle I go::: Take care, and be well… === Blue (amazed at what I will consider doing these days!… ) p’d & e’d – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All my life, I have had vivid, intense, in-color dreams, with great dream recall. Except for when I go on SSRIs. That’s one of THE major reasons I HATE taking SSRIs. It’s one of the MAJOR reasons I fully intend to be med-free SOME DAY… You’d *really* hate MAOIs then! (I soooo miss my dreams. ) Some people have increased sleep fragmentation on SSRIs which also contributes to remembering dreams more. Maybe they don’t do this to you and, combined with the overall suppression of REM, this results in not remembering your dreams. Which SSRIs did you try, and have you ever taken Effexor? (I hear about sleep peculiarities, especially vivid dreaming and REM parasomnias, a lot on that one as well.) Serzone may be a good choice for not altering your natural sleep architecture BTW. -elizabeth

Response:

Hey Blue. I’m not sure what a tricyclic would do to your dreams, but probably it would suppress them if anything. (Especially the anticholinergic ones – desipramine might not do so as much.) Benzos tend to do the same. Do you remember what all the other meds you tried did, exactly? _The Dreaming Brain_ and _The Chemistry of Conscious States_ by J. Allan Hobson (yeah, my professor) are really good books that shed some light on the subject of dreaming. I highly recommend them. Finally, don’t ask why I’m asking this, but do you smoke? -elizabeth

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey Blue. I’m not sure what a tricyclic would do to your dreams, but probably it would suppress them if anything. (Especially the anticholinergic ones – desipramine might not do so as much.) Benzos tend to do the same. Do you remember what all the other meds you tried did, exactly? _The Dreaming Brain_ and _The Chemistry of Conscious States_ by J. Allan Hobson (yeah, my professor) are really good books that shed some light on the subject of dreaming. I highly recommend them. Finally, don’t ask why I’m asking this, but do you smoke? -elizabeth

Yeah, elizabeth, I smoke. Why? OOPS! What, I know that the nicotine is supposed to act as some kind of *barrier* isn’t it, for stimulus reception? I dunno… The book title sounds interesting. May check it out. As for the TCAs, well, okay… I still wonder what else I could take. Could never take MAOIs

Response:

I have always been a vivd dreamer but my dreaming has definitely increased in intensity since I got on the imipramine/benzo combo. Just goes to show how YMMV these things seem to be as I would have thought the same thing you do about TCA’s and benzos. Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Well, the reason I say that about tricyclics is that they both increase aminergic and decrease cholinergic transmission, and experimentally they also suppress REM significantly. They, like the MAOIs, are good drugs for narcolepsy (one of the few situations in which amitriptyline can be worthwhile . But other things can go on too, since tricyclics are very "dirty" (not always a bad thing). The first couple days I was taking amoxapine (just 25mg), I actually had some dreams for the first time in a while. This has also happened with Xanax and Risperdal (both of which I tried as sleep aids). I’m guessing is that the reason was that they increased the length of time I was able to stay asleep. REM periods are much longer in the later part of the night than they are at the beginning (although depressed people often have really big ones early in the night, and of course decreased latency as well). Since I was taking 20mg of Parnate at the time, my REM sleep was down to almost nothing, but I presumably had some at the end of the night. Also, there are dreams that go in in NREM sleep, but they tend to be less active and less bizarre than REM dreams. Those sleep-onset "visions" (which I had a lot of while otherwise awake when I first started buprenorphine) could be thought of as a third time of dream/sleep cognition. (Okay, I’ll say it: hallucination!) -elizabeth

Response:

Yeah, elizabeth, I smoke. Why?

You can enhance your dreams by wearing a nicotine patch overnight. I didn’t tell you that. Could never take MAOIs

They’re *really* not that bad. I rarely, if ever, find myself unable to eat something that I would have eaten otherwise. But MAOIs suppress REM almost completely, so I don’t think you’d want that. (That’s why they’re good for narcolepsy.) Hey, can I ask what happened when you took methadone? But you know, elizabeth, I have a whole bunch of ideas about the nature of depression and anxiety, and I can tell you this much: these ideas are most certainly NOT mainstream ideas, and would probably be dismissed by most people who are well-trenched in institutionalized thought (I’m talking about *classic* science, so to speak.)

I’m always interested. -elizabeth

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: Yeah, elizabeth, I smoke. Why? You can enhance your dreams by wearing a nicotine patch overnight. I didn’t tell you that. Could never take MAOIs

– I’d be interested in hearing about your ideas on the nature of anxiety and depression as well. david —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—

Response:

Prozac (and other SSRI’s but I had it very very much on Prozac) do cause weird vivid dreams to occur. I can’t explain why but I remember reading somewhere it does something to your REM sleep

This was one of the topics today in the class I’m taking on sleep. SSRIs cause the line between non-REM and REM sleep to blur, so that while you don’t spend a whole lot of time in what could be called REM sleep, you do have a lot of diffuse REMs. Makes it seem like you’re just having vivid dreams throughout the night. -elizabeth

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Prozac (and other SSRI’s but I had it very very much on Prozac) do cause weird vivid dreams to occur. I can’t explain why but I remember reading somewhere it does something to your REM sleep This was one of the topics today in the class I’m taking on sleep. SSRIs cause the line between non-REM and REM sleep to blur, so that while you don’t spend a whole lot of time in what could be called REM sleep, you do have a lot of diffuse REMs. Makes it seem like you’re just having vivid dreams throughout the night. -elizabeth

It must just be me… All my life, I have had vivid, intense, in-color dreams, with great dream recall. Except for when I go on SSRIs. That’s one of THE major reasons I HATE taking SSRIs. It’s one of the MAJOR reasons I fully intend to be med-free SOME DAY… Best… — Blue (I can *dream,* can I not?… )

Response:

I have a question that I would like to ask / an issue to discuss. I used to suffer from depression and OCD. It was later realized that I was suffering because of the torment I received from the students at my school when I was younger (no, I didn’t shoot anyone). What I did was keep it locked inside and that was what caused my OCD and depression. However, even though I am taking Prozac and occassionaly visit my psychiatrist, I still keep having crazy dreams every night. I have yet to discuss this with my therapist, and would like to ask if anyone is familiar with what I am talking about. Anyway, every night, I have dreams that somehow involve the kids that I went to school with and they usually take place during my high school years. No matter what I dream, they are always there. Sometimes it seems like a good dream and I was a very popular person, but usually, I am getting teased and tormented. What is really strange to me is that I wasn’t tormented too bad during my high school years. In fact, I was basically ignored and non-existant to my fellow students. Any input on this? I would love to hear from you and get your thoughts on the subject. Thanks for your help.

Response:

Hi Prozac (and other SSRI’s but I had it very very much on Prozac) do cause weird vivid dreams to occur. I can’t explain why but I remember reading somewhere it does something to your REM sleep Good luck Cecile

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a question that I would like to ask / an issue to discuss. I used to suffer from depression and OCD. It was later realized that I was suffering because of the torment I received from the students at my school when I was younger (no, I didn’t shoot anyone). What I did was keep it locked inside and that was what caused my OCD and depression. However, even though I am taking Prozac and occassionaly visit my psychiatrist, I still keep having crazy dreams every night. I have yet to discuss this with my therapist, and would like to ask if anyone is familiar with what I am talking about. Anyway, every night, I have dreams that somehow involve the kids that I went to school with and they usually take place during my high school years. No matter what I dream, they are always there. Sometimes it seems like a good dream and I was a very popular person, but usually, I am getting teased and tormented. What is really strange to me is that I wasn’t tormented too bad during my high school years. In fact, I was basically ignored and non-existant to my fellow students. Any input on this? I would love to hear from you and get your thoughts on the subject. Thanks for your help.

Response:

QUESTION? PSYCHIATRY & SLEEP DISORDERS

admin — Wed, 02 Sep 1998 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

My sleep doc told me that medication is used to treat central sleep apnea. It’s probably true for other neurological-based sleep disorders too. Elise – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Lynfen2 wrote: > I must be lucky or something.I had a relapse > of depression was seeing a psyhiatrist who > didn’t listen. Luckily I found one that listened > to the sleep problems I was having[hallucina- > tions upon falling asleep, sleep walking and > referred me to a sleep specilalist after just one > visit. The sleep doctors listened too.THE > end result is you can have depresssion and > a sleep disorder . I have parasomnias, > sleepwalking, sl osa and inability to maintain > sleep. (going to sleep was never a problem. > the doctors at the sleep center told me that > they thought the parasominas might be due to > a biochemical inbalance since antidepressents > had reduce from daily to 2=3 times a week > the episodes of sleep terrors. Research in > depression points to chemical imbalances > Thankfully medication has made halllucinations an infrequent thing. However > i still struggle with depression so maybe there > are two types of chemical imbalaces one > with associated with depresssion and one > with sleep parasomnias. I know there has > been much research into serotonin in > depression, Has any one heard of high or > low levels of other chemicals that are > associated with sleep disorders…. > It’ really hard to find info, lots on osa but > little on the other stuff.

Response:

I must be lucky or something.I had a relapse of depression was seeing a psyhiatrist who didn’t listen. Luckily I found one that listened to the sleep problems I was having[hallucina- tions upon falling asleep, sleep walking and referred me to a sleep specilalist after just one visit. The sleep doctors listened too.THE end result is you can have depresssion and a sleep disorder . I have parasomnias, sleepwalking, sl osa and inability to maintain sleep. (going to sleep was never a problem. the doctors at the sleep center told me that they thought the parasominas might be due to a biochemical inbalance since antidepressents had reduce from daily to 2=3 times a week the episodes of sleep terrors. Research in depression points to chemical imbalances Thankfully medication has made halllucinations an infrequent thing. However i still struggle with depression so maybe there are two types of chemical imbalaces one with associated with depresssion and one with sleep parasomnias. I know there has been much research into serotonin in depression, Has any one heard of high or low levels of other chemicals that are associated with sleep disorders…. It’ really hard to find info, lots on osa but little on the other stuff.

Response:

Thanks for replying everyone. Druth, I agree with Gary. Can you give us more info. on this. Marge

Response:

On 2 Sep 98 07:43:21 GMT, after having stubbed my toe on the damned stairwell, I was temporarily distracted when ww…@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca (Gary Greene) wrote: >x-no-archive: yes >It’s common knowledge that depression, anxiety, obsessive-compulsive >disorder, compulsive personality, and various stress states >have concurrent sleep disruptions, yet these problems are rarely >mentioned in this group — or at least this is the first time >I have seen it discussed. And the tone of the post implies that >the connection is not often made. >Can I ask Druth, who seems knowledgeable about the subject, >to expand on the points he mentions? What sleep-study data >would be used, and how would they be used?

Gary, Owing to constraints of time, I regret that I cannot do the research and provide the studies (furthermore, it has never appeared to matter how much research I demonstrate to prove my point ). I have seen literature which describes certain characteristics of polysomnography data that is consistent with depressive illnesses. For instance, among other criteria the placement of REM sleep during a night of sleep can be telling. In the DSM-IV, the psychiatrist’s "bible", reference is made to polysomnography data in depressive illnesses. This is a start! I believe you can find some information in the Medline database. "Psychiatric Polysomnography" is even more novel than the sleep sciences themselves, and there is a horizon of road yet to cover. In time, polysomnography data will be used to look at these psychiatric illnesses, and we will find that many of these diseases will, ultimately, through the combining of the sleep sciences with psychiatry, find their geneses in the earliest manifestations of disordered sleep (disordered sleep also can spawn mental, "cognitive" progressions which can later be recognized and classified as aberrant according to traditional criteria for mental illnesses, but which will equally have lost their etiologic context). The inability to see the late-staged sequelae of the sleep disorder is rampant today, and is owing to an embryonic state of medicine; the ability to see long-term cause and effect relationships has always been weak in medicine, and only the imminent and acute assocations have been easier to discern, at first; this flaw borne from impulsivity and the lack of longitudinal study becomes magnified even more in the realm of sleep and mental health. For instance, no doctor could fathom that one could find those who had sleep apnea in ther childhood by taking a tour through a local homeless shelter. Therefore, today, so far, there is a strong (though incipient) correlation between only depressive illnesses and polysomnographic findings. We hope the trend continues, and that this enlightenment moves forward in perpetuity. To seek out these ends, it is vital that psychiatric and sleep disciplines converge upon the science of polysomnography. We will find that sleep is at the root of much mental illness, as well as psychological decay. D

Response:

klonopin question

admin — Mon, 13 Jul 1998 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

My father who is 78 has a sleep disorder ( not apnea) and was put on klonopin. I don’t know the dosage. He has terrible nightmares and acts them out in his sleep. He falls out of bed and fights. Needless to say my mom doesn’t sleep in the same bed with him for fear of being hurt. Is this an addictive drug like Xanax? My sister said no but I have read some of the post here that sounds like it is. His doctors don’t explain things to him very well and if they do he forgets so I wanted to ask the question here. Maybe I can help him if he does have some side effects by telling him some of the experiences from here. I know that this isn’t a question about the disorder we suffer but just wanted some feedback. Thank you Unj

Sounds like he has a problem with benzos as a whole. Usually benzos tend to inhibbit REM sleep but it sounds like its really agravating his. He probably on a small dose so probably he might have one night of being restless. If its a sleep disorder than he should be using an hypnotic such as halcion. YMMV. Tim;) — When you here hoof beats, think of horse’s, not zebra’s

Response:

(Unjasboy) writes: My father who is 78 has a sleep disorder (not apnea) and was put on klonopin. I don’t know the dosage. He has terrible nightmares and acts them out in his sleep. He falls out of bed and fights. Needless to say my mom doesn’t sleep in the same bed with him for fear of being hurt. Is this an addictive drug like Xanax? My sister said no but I have read some of the post here that sounds like it is. His doctors don’t explain things to him very well and if they do he forgets so I wanted to ask the question here. Maybe I can help him if he does have some side effects by telling him some of the experiences from here. I know that this isn’t a question about the disorder we suffer but just wanted some feedback. Thank you Unj

This sounds like REM sleep behaviour disorder; it’s different from sleep walking in that sleep walking doesn’t occur during dreaming, whereas RBD episodes are associated with dream content and occur during the dreaming phase of sleep. Klonopin, taken at bedtime and started at about .5mg each night about 30-60 minutes before bedtime (possibly .25mg because of your father’s age – older people often need to take less of these types of drugs), usually works well. Sometimes REM-suppressing antidepressants (e.g., phenelzine) are used instead if Klonopin doesn’t work. I really hate the word "addictive" – it doesn’t mean much! But in answer to the question: the main risk of Klonopin and Xanax and similar drugs is that you may have to come off them slowly in order to avoid rebound anxiety, insomnia, or parasomnias (of which REM behaviour disorder is an example). This can be prevented or minimized by not stopping the drug suddenly, but tapering off it slowly. Klonopin seems to be less likely to cause withdrawal problems than Xanax. Some side effects Klonopin has for some people: drowsiness (doesn’t matter too much if your dad takes it before sleep); dizziness; loss of coordination. Although Klonopin has a pretty long half-life compared to Xanax (i.e., it stays in your body longer), it generally doesn’t cause side effects in the daytime if you only take it at night. BTW, REM sleep behaviour disorder is anxiety-related for many people; I think it’s relevant here (certainly more "relevant" than some things that come up on this newsgroup! . Hope this helps. Best of luck to your father. -elizabeth

Response:

Hi there, Let’s start from the beginning here. Benzodiazapenes (Xanax, Valium, Klonopin, etc.)are not "addictive", any more than blood pressure medication is addictive. As long as a person needs the medication for a disorder and is not abusing the medication, i.e. taking more of it to "get high", or stealling to get a supply, etc. there is no "addiction" Now, these drugs DO cause a physical dependency. Much like blood pressure meds, anti-seizure drugs and insulin. In other words, your body grows accustomed to the med and you will have withdrawal symptoms if you go off of the med too quickly. IME, benzos are quite easy to withdraw from if done correctly over time. My P-doc feels that a year is not an unreasonable amount of time to withdraw from a med if necessary. Most people can do it across a number of weeks though. So, basically I wouldn’t worry about this med unless you see behavior where he keeps increasing his dose without his doctor’s approval. How much Klonopin is he taking? My sister said no but I have read some of the post here that sounds like it is. His doctors don’t explain things to him very well and if they do he forgets so I wanted to ask the question here. Maybe I can help him if he does have some side effects by telling him some of the experiences from here. I know that this isn’t a question about the disorder we suffer but just wanted some feedback. Thank you Unj

He should not have any side effects to speak of after the first 3-4 weeks. During that "break-in" time, he may have some pretty bad grogginess; especially in the morning. It does go away however. Other than that, Klonopin is a pretty easy drug to live with. I have been on it for over a year now. The one thing he probably should have his doctor do is a liver enzyme panel every year. Just to make sure that his liver is toleratingthe meds well. But this is pretty standard when on any long-term medication. Hope that helps, Jen

Response:

Unj, As to whether Klonopin is "addictive" is sort of a vexed question. But, yes, it is habit-forming as is any benzodiazpine (Ativan, Xanax, Valium, etc.). It may be less habit-forming than Xanax and Ativan due to its longer half-life. Is your father on any other meds (like antidepressants)? They can cause some pretty odd dreams, for sure. Good luck Matt

Response:

Sleep disorder chat line

admin — Tue, 09 Jun 1998 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Hi; I participate in 3 sleep chats! They are all AOL in THRIVE. The schedule is as follows: Monday 9PM-11PM (EST) In the private room "Sleepers Lounge" Topic is sleep apnea only Tuesday 9PM-11PM (EST) In the Health chat Room Topic is sleep disorders including parasomnias Wednesday 9PM-11pm (EST) In the private room "sleepers Lounge" Topic is sleep disorders Its a great bunch of people with wonderful hosts. Sometimes sleep docs drop in and give their 2 cents worth. Its a great place for the newly diagnosed and oldtimers like me who want to share and continue to learn. e-mail me for more info if you would like. I can send you a link to the site. Tracy

Response:

Dear sun553 I have been trying to find out the same ting if you heard anythin will you let me know? I have narcolepcy and would love to talk toother people who would understand me better. I hope you get this. I ‘m not sure of what I’m doing. KayKay1029 –RMarin4…@aol.com

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Anyone know of an sleep disorder or insomnia chat line that is active 24 hrs. I would like tochat with people that have same sleep problems as I do.

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On 09 Jun 1998 15:08:06 GMT, sun…@aol.com (Sun553) wrote: >Anyone know of an sleep disorder >or insomnia chat line that is active >24 hrs. I would like tochat with people >that have same sleep problems as I do.

ICQ users should easily be able to set one up. But as of yet I don’t think one exists. *************************************** delete "nospam" for e-mail reply ***************************************

Response:

Sneaky Viruses causing CFS and SA?

admin — Mon, 25 May 1998 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

>I have read elsewhere that perhaps 80% of the adult population gets infected >with one of the polio viruses eventually, but very, very few know it. >It seems to me that if some of these remain clinically undetected but >chronically unresolved, with mild but progressive deterioration of >neuromuscular control of breathing and limb movements, then that is >potentially relevant to neurological and neuromuscular disorders such as >sleep apnea, periodic limb movements in sleep, circadian phase disorders, >parasomnias, and so forth. >Zzzorro……….

Thanks for the post, Zorrooo. It raises some chilling questions. First of all, what is the definitive test? It was mentioned in the piece, but where can it be done? Who would be more prone to do such a test: your family practicioner or Dr. Martin? Does not this data suggest some correlations with Dr. M’s assertions — namely, viral transmissions for polio vaccinations, which include weakened strains of polio pathogens? But here is the biggest question to me. There appears to be some damning evidence that viruses cause fatigue disorders. Now where do we turn for help? Who will mobilize on our behalf to get to the truth? I don’t believe that any physician I have ever encountered in front of my eyes would even know where to start, let alone want to. Which of your physicians could slap you in a chair, take your blood, test you for the virus, and send you on your way? Where is the local "CFS/Viral" clinic in your state? Why will this truth be so hard to get at? Will there be any obstacles to the easy assimilation of this information into mainstream medicine? If so, why the hell come? Do traditional physicians have anything to lose by receiving and acknowledging viral etiologies in fatigue disorders? What could they possiblly lose? If there are many of these viruses, what provisional name might you give to them all if you had a passing interest in their ultimate categorization? Who is our only hope? Doug

Response:

Attn: Mr. Doug and Mr. T: From: Zorro I can’t stand the bickering over Dr. Martin’s stealth virus, when there seem to be many more scientifically productive (if not proven) approaches unfolding out there. Dr. Martin’s work will have to stand on its own wobbly legs. No amount of benevolent rationalizing will help it. His hypothesis eventually will be confirmed or disproved by critical data from skeptical scientific inquiry, as with all scientific conjecture, and that will govern its ultimate disposition. Meanwhile, there are other hypotheses that are coming together much more strongly, and should deserve at least equal time. At the current level of knowledge, the common enteroviruses should seem much more likely to be relevant to CFS, and could better be described as "stealth" (or at least, sneaky) viruses. Remember that the diagnosis of CFS is exclusionary (must exclude all other causes of chronic fatigue). So if enteroviruses cause sub-clinical polio (dysfunction of neuromuscular breathing function) which manifests itself as CFS which causes sleep apnea which in turn presents clinical chronic fatigue, then the CFS cannot be diagnosed as CFS, and instead sleep apnea with apneic fatigue is the mandated diagnosis. Consider the following: **************************************** Colby, J. "ME: The New Plague" (First and Best in Education Ltd., 24 Nene Valley Business Park, Oundle, Peterborough, PE 8 4HL, UK) ———————————————- Excerpt published in [What Doctor's Don't Tell You], Vol. 6, No. 9. "Chronic Fatigue: A polio by another name" by J. Colby ———————————————- Subtitle: Research into Post-Polio syndrome and chronic fatigue has-made the astounding discovery that the virus that most often triggers CFS is closely related to the one that causes polio. …..a body of evidence is growing linking Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS), also called Myalgic encephalomyelitis (ME), to this terrible disease, largely caused by attempts to eradicate polio. An alternative polio seems to be upon us. The proceedings of the first international scientific conference…..includes 50 papers written by 118 contributors from a wide range of specialties, including clinical neurology……In particular, papers…..compare Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Post-Polio Syndrome…..Clinically, it is indistinguishable from CFS. Other researchers demonstrate that CFS is just another form of polio, which has increased with the advent of polio vaccination. As one type of gut virus has been eradicated, so other forms have had the space to proliferate…..A historical accident has led to various names being given to viruses, all of which share physical, chemical and epidemiological characteristics of what we consider the classic polio virus, which science refers to as polio viruses 1, 2, and 3…..In l948, a polio-like illness in New York state prompted scientists to culture the virus. But what grew looked to them at that time like a new virus. They called it "Coxsackie" after the small town up the Hudson River where it was found. And they called the disease "Atypical Polio" because its symptoms identified it as a kind of polio, despite the virus being apparently different. This kind of polio, "Atypical Polio,’ has since been renamed, ‘Chronic Fatigue Syndrome,’ or ME. But it remains a kind of poIio despite the change of name. and newer technology has shown up the generic similarities of the most frequent agent that causes it. These techniques place Coxsackie, the virus most often implicated in CFS, in the polio family tree, along with so-called echo viruses. Coxsackie has been further divided into Coxsackie type A (with 24 viruses) and Coxsackie type B (six viruses ). There are 34 echo viruses. In total, there are at least 72 enteroviruses in all, with new ones still being discovered. All this has been unnecessarily confusing and complicated, even for doctors. These days newly discovered enteroviruses are just given a new number, not a new name…..Had the techniques been available that we now have at our disposal, all these viruses might simply have been called "Polio 1 through 72"…..Dr. Elizabeth Dowsett, consultant microbiologist of the Southeast Essex NHS Trust who is in the forefront of British CFS research, explains that true CFS (as opposed to fatigue states with other etiologies) …..has often been diagnosed as a "non-paralytic polio"…..She feels that it has been an unfortunate mistake to turn to the label "Chronic Fatigue" because true CFS is a neurological condition that usually originates with a gut virus infection like Coxsackie…..The requirement to put off diagnosing CFS for six months after the patient falls ill has unwittingly militated against this. If tests are not done very rapidly after the onset of infection, it is too late to identify the virus……A blood screening test called the IGM, which shows up recent infection, can be positive up to three months after infection in adults. As the enteroviruses are characterized by their relapsing nature…..it could also be identified on relapse. Apart from modern techniques, a research procedure called the acid elution test can identify your antibody from a circulating virus…..Years ago it was difficult to diagnose polio, and it was this very test which was used. A third way to compare CFS with polio is by looking at studies of actual outbreaks which identified the viruses causing it. Here the evidence is particularly striking. A recent paper by Richard T. Johnson…..sets out evidence that has been available since the 1950s. "In the spring of 1957," he wrote, "we investigated an epidemic of poliomyelitis in Hawaii…of the 39 cases of nonparalytic poliomyelitis, only four were related to type I poliovirus. There were 16 cases of echovirus 9, seven cases of Coxsackie, and four to five other enteroviruses." The very enteroviruses known to be implicated in CFS were here identified as causing "non-paralytic polio." CFS has often been diagnosed as "non-paralytic polio." And even more interestingly, two of the 38 cases of paralytic disease were not caused by the polio virus at all, but by one of the Coxsackie viruses. So we know that enteroviruses in general can cause varying forms of the disease we call polio. Other parallels between CFS and polio concern neurological damage. In the November 1991 edition of Orthopedics, Dr. Bruno says that "all the evidence available shows conclusively that every case of poliomyelitis, human or experimental, exhibits lesions of the brain"…..CFS has been diagnosed by both italicized names. In fact, brain abnormalities can now be demonstrated in the brains of people with CFS using SPECT and MRI scans. One would expect there to be differences in the diseases caused by different viruses, but if these viruses are all of the same family and use the same receptor sites in the body, one would also expect there to be similarities. This is just what we find. Dr. Bruno says: "Despite the differences between poliomyelitis and CFS, an association with the polio virus was suggested by the fact that, of the more than one dozen CFS outbreaks before the introduction of the Salk vaccine, nine occurred during or immediately after outbreaks of polio, and several involved hospital staff who cared for polio patients" (Annals, NY Academy of Sciences, 1995). There is also the case of a woman who fell ill with classical CFS while nursing a lady friend with acute paralytic polio (Hyde et al., 1994). But if CFS is a type of polio, why doesn’t everyone exposed to the relevant viruses develop ME just as they did polio? …..Dr. Thomas Stuttaford of The London Times explains, ". . only a small number of those infected with the polio virus became paralyzed; about 90 percent didn’t even realize that they had anything more threatening than a cold." With polio and CFS, the state of your immune system governs whether you will be susceptible. By _(vaccinations)_ we alter the balance of infectious agents in the environment. The circulation of wild polio viruses 1-3 has declined through vaccination. However, this has left us open to the other 69 polio-related viruses, which have thrived……It is therefore not surprising that since the late 1950s the incidence of CFS has risen, and experts predict that it will be the neurological disease of the 21st century. By suppressing the spread of three enteroviruses we have opened the door to the rest. The argument about whether enterovirus infection persists over many years is still raging. In her 1995 review…..Dr. Dowsett draws attention to new evidence of persistent enterovirus infection in the CNS….."Three separate groups of Virologists from the US, UK and France have found fragments of enteroviral RNA in the spinal cord, cerebrospinal fluid and blood of some patients with Post-Polio syndrome. The fragments are identified as polio virus by some and as Coxsackie virus by others"…..It is thought that the emergence of late-onset Post-Polio fatigue may result from age-related changes in brain cells that survived the original polio infection (Bruno, Annals, NY Academy of Sciences, 1995). But it can be observed through case histories that just as we see Post-Polio Syndrome 30 years after initial infection, so we are seeing "Post-CFS" as well. The Nightingale Research Foundation in Ottawa proposes that in fact they are one and the same condition-others believe they may be variations of each other. What has arisen is "two new diseases with different names, with different degrees of acceptance and exactly the same set of symptoms at exactly the same time. It is unrealistic to believe that we are dealing with two different disease processes and two different causes," the researchers concluded. A paper investigating the epidemiological aspects of CFS has revealed further convincing parallels between the behavior of this disease and polio. It describes the onset … read more »

Response:

Screaming

admin — Thu, 02 Apr 1998 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I scream in my sleep. Real, honest-to-goodness, bone-chilling screaming that wakes up my husband *and* the guy next door (we live in a duplex). Sometimes it wakes me up too, but not always. And I am otherwise OK, don’t have any traumatic dreams to recall or any terror associated with the screaming. Shrink isn’t interested and neither was sleep doctor. Any suggestions? I’d like to stop. MHA

Response:

> Shrink isn’t interested and neither was sleep doctor. Any > suggestions? I’d like to stop.

What do you mean they weren’t interested? Can you elaborate? Mark – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> MHA

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My man screams loudly in his sleep about once every couple of months or so. He says he is usually having dreams of aggressive arguments when he does this. What’s up? Why does he do this? How can he stop? I’d love to know. Sincerely, Rose

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Hi, Rose, In article <35241628.7…@auracom.com>, Page1 writes: >My man screams loudly in his sleep about once every couple of months or >so. He says he is usually having dreams of aggressive arguments when he >does this. >What’s up? Why does he do this? How can he stop? I’d love to know.

It sounds like a kind of sleep disturbance called a parasomnia, which are undesirable events that occur during sleep, and include sleepwalking, sleeptalking, and some other things. (I’m not a sleep expert, by the way, but a medical writer who write a lot about sleep disorders.) Parasomnias aren’t harmful, unless the person jumps out of bed and starts acting out dreams and could hurt himself or others. And they aren’t a sign of anything awful that’s wrong with the person. But sleeping with a screamer could be pretty nerve-wracking! I have read that stress and being sleep-deprived both can worsen parasomnias. So he may decrease his chances of having these episodes by learning to control stress and by making sure he gets plenty of sleep every night. If his sleep problems bother him or you a lot, you could talk with a sleep specialist about a medication that could help. Best wishes, Sally in Seattle (JSo…@aol.com) Coauthor, with Dr. Ralph Pascualy, of Snoring and Sleep Apnea: Personal and Family Guide to Diagnosis and Treatment, published in 1996 by Demos Vermande, NY. Available through bookstores, ISBN # 0-939957-82-5.