Cramps
Question:
Absolutely. Sometimes I feel like the only person without apnea on this list 
Lis "Tal" <beth…@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b17kf1$10b6v5$1@ID-148111.news.dfncis.de… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > depression even if you didn’t have it before the meds.). If you want to > try > > something else, however, there ARE things you can do to make your life > > easier. > Hi Lis > can i use these suggestions on the newsgroup website? > — > Beth in Australia > =================== > FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here > http://www.anchorweb.com.au/sleepdisorders > this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles
Response:
On Wed, 29 Jan 2003 19:38:53 GMT, paula <pau…@telusplanet.net> wrote: >Note; Do you really have to pay yourself for a sleep study, specialists etc. or >did I get the wrong impression?? >Paula
No, I have not, at least: I don’t have to pay it entirely. National Health Care will pay the biggest part but there is also any contribution to pay from your own if you are a patient in Belgium. Payments are not the problem here. But National Health Care will only refund the costs of the sleep study when such is really necessary. First the doctors have the duty to find out whether more classic medicine might be helpful or not. So a whole calvary of preceding trial and error examinations is on the stocks before they finally will allow me to have a sleep study done. They will first try out all their "cheap" weapons before they decide to send you to a sleep lab. A single sleep study costs 1300 euros and that’s about what I earn in a single month. Now I don’t have to pay this all myself but imagine they send you first from pillar to post for a while before they admit any refund for a serious sleep study. Each time you have to pay and they give you medicine which are not effective.. How would YOU feel? I admit a sleep study would be the best and most conclusive test but it’s National Health Care which has to refund the whole thing and they are now in a savings round. The way I’ll have to go is full of booby traps, you see? And I don’t like doctors at all. In my eyes some of them are real bunglers and swindlers. There should exist any law saying: No cure? Then: no pay! But something like that doesn’t exist, does it? Norbert
Response:
Thanks for all your replies, folks! I could really appreciate it! Norbert (from Flanders – Belgium) On Tue, 28 Jan 2003 21:53:37 +0100, Sterrenkijker – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<Sterrenkij…@skynet.be> wrote: >Hi, >I’m Norbert, from Belgium. Sorry if my English is a little poor but >English is not my mother-tongue. >Three years ago I had a gastric banding operation. I lost 26 kilos >since. A month after the operation I had the following problem to >overcome. After 4-5 hours of sleep I woke up each night feeling strong >cramps in both legs and I had to leave bed at once. At the same time I >felt that my right arm was swollen. After waking up this way I >couldn’t fall asleep anymore during the rest of the night. After >jumping out of the bed the cramps blew over but so did my sleep. My >days were awful. I was tired all the time because my sleep had been >too short. This phenomenon never left me since. Up to now I’m >suffering from the same problem. >After rambling somewhat with several doctors (they didn’t know what it >was) it was myself who found a medicine. A certain night I drank a cup >of tea of Saint John’s wort and I felt this made me sleep somewhat >longer. This made me decide I had to look for an antidepressant. So I >went to a neurologist who gave me mianserin. It worked. Since I had >regular nights of 8-9 hours of sleep BUT the cramps didn’t disappear. >They remained present at the end of my sleep even when this one had >been long enough. Also my right arm was always swollen at the end of >the night. So up to now I’m waking up at normal times but the same >symptoms from three years ago are still a daily part of my life. >Anyway, I was able to sleep long enough and this made me revive. A >minimal dose of mianserin before bedtime was sufficient. Also another >antidepressant, such as Trozadone, had the same effect. >My question to the people here around is this: is anyone here >recognizing this? You know, it’s very odd that I have to take an >antidepressant where I am no depressive guy at all! And why do I only >need such a low dose in order to lead a normal life? Yes, my question >is why? And why is it chronic? Why do I need this every day? I tried >to stop taking the antidepressant and this works for a few days but >soon the same comes back all again. So I guess low doses of >antidepressant from now on will be with me my whole life. >I went to several doctors to find out. They said: probably >fibromyalgia, or the restless legs syndrom, or periodic limb movement >disorder. But every doctor makes me feel he is not familiar with and >this is something putting me off. I really want to know what I’m >suffering from and I’m not satisfied by someone telling me: it’s >probably this or it’s probably the other. No, I want certainty. The >last doctor I met gave me clonazepam but this was no success either. >’When this doesn’t help’, he said, then I’ll send you to a sleep >laboratory. OK, if this is necessary I’ll go but I’m afraid that even >there they won’t find the reason of my complaints. If I just knew >there was a similar case in the world then I’d like to meet that >person. >Kind regards to all of you >Norbert (from Flanders, Belgium)
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Sterrenkijker wrote: > On Wed, 29 Jan 2003 19:38:53 GMT, paula <pau…@telusplanet.net> > wrote: > >Note; Do you really have to pay yourself for a sleep study, specialists etc. or > >did I get the wrong impression?? > >Paula > No, I have not, at least: I don’t have to pay it entirely. National > Health Care will pay the biggest part but there is also any > contribution to pay from your own if you are a patient in Belgium. > Payments are not the problem here. But National Health Care will only > refund the costs of the sleep study when such is really necessary. > First the doctors have the duty to find out whether more classic > medicine might be helpful or not. So a whole calvary of preceding > trial and error examinations is on the stocks before they finally will > allow me to have a sleep study done. They will first try out all their > "cheap" weapons before they decide to send you to a sleep lab. > A single sleep study costs 1300 euros and that’s about what I earn in > a single month. Now I don’t have to pay this all myself but imagine > they send you first from pillar to post for a while before they admit > any refund for a serious sleep study. Each time you have to pay and > they give you medicine which are not effective.. How would YOU feel? > I admit a sleep study would be the best and most conclusive test but > it’s National Health Care which has to refund the whole thing and they > are now in a savings round. The way I’ll have to go is full of booby > traps, you see? And I don’t like doctors at all. In my eyes some of > them are real bunglers and swindlers. There should exist any law > saying: No cure? Then: no pay! But something like that doesn’t exist, > does it? > Norbert
Bear……. see what I mean in that in some countries, even highly developed Belgium they are still looking at OSA from the dark ages. The simple on line sleep apnea test we use here can determine if you need a sleep test. Regards Lee in Toronto —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Sterrenkijker wrote: > On Wed, 29 Jan 2003 12:21:39 -0500, Lee Babcock > <leebabc…@pathcom.com> wrote: > Well, you could be right, Lee. Indeed, from time to time it’s > frightening when you have something chronic, something which does not > heal. In such case you KNOW there is something potentially wrong with > you. O.K., you convinced me: I’ll have the test done if it can be > arranged. But then I hope you’ll understand what I’ll think about the > doctor who first said that I had fibromyalgia. It’s an extremely > civilized way to tell somebody:"Dear Sir, I know what’s wrong with you > (in fact he doesn’t), you have fibromyalgia but this is a disease of > which the cause has not been discovered yet (which is a fact!), so > it’s not curable (which is a fact as well), but we can help you by > managing the symptoms. I’ll prescribe you some medicine against the > pain or for better sleep. Next meeting at xx-xx-xxxx. Now pay my bill > and call the next patient." After a few years I feel as if someone > picked my pockets. Wouldn’t you? It’s remarkable how many explanations > exist for a single symptom. They just keep you busy, don’t they? > Norbert
Norbert…… I can understand your situation as I was diagnosed by symptoms and family history as having Adult Muscular Dystrophy and that nothing could be done about it. Live with until you die from it was the advice. I raised merry old hell and demanded to be tested for MD and during these tests, the OSA was diagnosed. Don’t take the word of ANY doctor without question. Arm yourself with knowledge and ask lots of questions. If they don’t like the questions, then remind them that they work for you. If this doesn’t help, find another doctor. Keep in mind as well, that even the good ones in the medical profession have trouble keeping up with the rapid changes. Don’t be afraid to print out something from the internet (provided it’s from a credible source) to give to the doctor. Take care of yourself Regards Lee in Toronto —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–
Response:
done – thanks — Beth in Australia =================== FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://www.anchorweb.com.au/sleepdisorders this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles "Lis" <liont…@ptd.net> wrote in message
news:_oWZ9.1826$N5.1050304@nnrp1.ptd.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Absolutely. Sometimes I feel like the only person without apnea on this list > > Lis > "Tal" <beth…@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:b17kf1$10b6v5$1@ID-148111.news.dfncis.de… > > > depression even if you didn’t have it before the meds.). If you want to > > try > > > something else, however, there ARE things you can do to make your life > > > easier. > > Hi Lis > > can i use these suggestions on the newsgroup website? > > — > > Beth in Australia > > =================== > > FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here > > http://www.anchorweb.com.au/sleepdisorders > > this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles
Response:
On Wed, 29 Jan 2003 12:21:39 -0500, Lee Babcock <leebabc…@pathcom.com> wrote:
Well, you could be right, Lee. Indeed, from time to time it’s frightening when you have something chronic, something which does not heal. In such case you KNOW there is something potentially wrong with you. O.K., you convinced me: I’ll have the test done if it can be arranged. But then I hope you’ll understand what I’ll think about the doctor who first said that I had fibromyalgia. It’s an extremely civilized way to tell somebody:"Dear Sir, I know what’s wrong with you (in fact he doesn’t), you have fibromyalgia but this is a disease of which the cause has not been discovered yet (which is a fact!), so it’s not curable (which is a fact as well), but we can help you by managing the symptoms. I’ll prescribe you some medicine against the pain or for better sleep. Next meeting at xx-xx-xxxx. Now pay my bill and call the next patient." After a few years I feel as if someone picked my pockets. Wouldn’t you? It’s remarkable how many explanations exist for a single symptom. They just keep you busy, don’t they? Norbert – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> On Wed, 29 Jan 2003 09:44:35 -0500, Lee Babcock >Norbert…… please get a sleep test. They can accomodate daytime >tests and a patients schedule and needs. >Your situation could be potentially very serious so you should follow up >on this. Cramps can also be caused by kidney misfuctions as well so >don’t play with your life. >Besides, we Canadians have a special feeling for you folks from Belgium >and Holland as well. >Regards >Lee in Toronto >—–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– >http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >—–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–
Response:
Sterrenkijker wrote: > met for a consultation: my surgeon, the family doctor, a neurologist > and at last a specialist in the chronic fatigue/fibromyalgia syndrom > and I didn’t do any step forward up to now. Now who is the one finally > able to tell what’s the matter with me? You see?
Norbert, it is about 10 years ago I started a similar route. Fam. Doc sending to neurologist, him sending me back I am fine. Have seen many ( alternative field) on my own in between but I am finally being treated for apnea and ( sub clinical) hypo thyroid for about 1.5-2 years. Slowly getting better. You have 2 choices. Or keep going the way you do ( obviously not very well) or keep plugging away trying all you can/ are allowed to finding out what is wrong with you. It is your health. IMHO you are lucky to be send on. My fam doc threw me out as I was not following his orders; taking prozac, which nearly killed me. Note; Do you really have to pay yourself for a sleep study, specialists etc. or did I get the wrong impression?? Paula
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Sterrenkijker wrote: > Thanks, Lee, but, you know, I guess I’ll have a lot of trouble to get > a "regular" sleep test. Due to the fact that I’m working during > weekends (2 x 12 hours) and considering it’s an alternating system > (every two weeks it’s 2 x 12 hours full by day and the other weekends > it’s 2 x 12 hours full by night) I fear that I can’t arrive there in > any sleep lab telling the nurses: "Well, folks, I’m here for the > test!" Suppose I’d have to be there at Monday, after two days of night > shift.. I don’t sleep the first nights after such weekend! My entire > system is upset then for a few days. When I get sleep then it might be > 4-5 o’clock in the morning! They’re gonna make the wrong conclusions, > I’m almost sure about. I read they do the tests at night but in my > case this would not be appropriate some days. How do they solve such > problems? Would they wait till I fall asleep in the early morning and > have the test passed till noon? Last time I have been completely > disappointed by that specialist telling me that my physical condition > was not O.K. But I’m dead certain that I was his first patient coming > to him after a double night shift of 12 hours! No wonder that I was > not O.K.! The system I’m working in is very rare. Believe me: I don’t > feel very thrustful. In fact I lost much of my confidence in the > medical world the last few years. Beware when they don’t know what’s > wrong with you. Then they send you to other specialists and that’s not > wrong by itself but in the meantime they can send you the wrong > direction as well. And the main question after all is: who’s gonna pay > it? The answer is quite simple: yourself! Some doctors are just > wandering around in their own world and they can’t imagine there are > different worlds than the one they are in. Another problem might be: > suppose I am in a "good" day! It happens! There ARE indeed nights I > don’t feel cramps though they are very rare. Now suppose I arrive > there for the test.. I can’t say to the gentlemen:"Sirs, let me decide > myself the day I wish to come to you!" This is impossible since you’ll > have to be there a well defined day. It’s always THEM leading the > dance and I think that’s wrong. Such sleep test is just a snap shot > of a certain reality at a certain moment and this is where they build > up their whole diagnose on. Sometimes it feels as if that disease I’m > suffering from is just a ghost, only visible to me, and when a doctor > arrives then that ghost has gone. It’s now the fourth doctor already I > met for a consultation: my surgeon, the family doctor, a neurologist > and at last a specialist in the chronic fatigue/fibromyalgia syndrom > and I didn’t do any step forward up to now. Now who is the one finally > able to tell what’s the matter with me? You see? > Thanks for your reply anyway! > Kind regards to all > Norbert (from Flanders, Belgium) > On Wed, 29 Jan 2003 09:44:35 -0500, Lee Babcock
Norbert…… please get a sleep test. They can accomodate daytime tests and a patients schedule and needs. Your situation could be potentially very serious so you should follow up on this. Cramps can also be caused by kidney misfuctions as well so don’t play with your life. Besides, we Canadians have a special feeling for you folks from Belgium and Holland as well. Regards Lee in Toronto —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–
Response:
Thanks, Lee, but, you know, I guess I’ll have a lot of trouble to get a "regular" sleep test. Due to the fact that I’m working during weekends (2 x 12 hours) and considering it’s an alternating system (every two weeks it’s 2 x 12 hours full by day and the other weekends it’s 2 x 12 hours full by night) I fear that I can’t arrive there in any sleep lab telling the nurses: "Well, folks, I’m here for the test!" Suppose I’d have to be there at Monday, after two days of night shift.. I don’t sleep the first nights after such weekend! My entire system is upset then for a few days. When I get sleep then it might be 4-5 o’clock in the morning! They’re gonna make the wrong conclusions, I’m almost sure about. I read they do the tests at night but in my case this would not be appropriate some days. How do they solve such problems? Would they wait till I fall asleep in the early morning and have the test passed till noon? Last time I have been completely disappointed by that specialist telling me that my physical condition was not O.K. But I’m dead certain that I was his first patient coming to him after a double night shift of 12 hours! No wonder that I was not O.K.! The system I’m working in is very rare. Believe me: I don’t feel very thrustful. In fact I lost much of my confidence in the medical world the last few years. Beware when they don’t know what’s wrong with you. Then they send you to other specialists and that’s not wrong by itself but in the meantime they can send you the wrong direction as well. And the main question after all is: who’s gonna pay it? The answer is quite simple: yourself! Some doctors are just wandering around in their own world and they can’t imagine there are different worlds than the one they are in. Another problem might be: suppose I am in a "good" day! It happens! There ARE indeed nights I don’t feel cramps though they are very rare. Now suppose I arrive there for the test.. I can’t say to the gentlemen:"Sirs, let me decide myself the day I wish to come to you!" This is impossible since you’ll have to be there a well defined day. It’s always THEM leading the dance and I think that’s wrong. Such sleep test is just a snap shot of a certain reality at a certain moment and this is where they build up their whole diagnose on. Sometimes it feels as if that disease I’m suffering from is just a ghost, only visible to me, and when a doctor arrives then that ghost has gone. It’s now the fourth doctor already I met for a consultation: my surgeon, the family doctor, a neurologist and at last a specialist in the chronic fatigue/fibromyalgia syndrom and I didn’t do any step forward up to now. Now who is the one finally able to tell what’s the matter with me? You see? Thanks for your reply anyway! Kind regards to all Norbert (from Flanders, Belgium) On Wed, 29 Jan 2003 09:44:35 -0500, Lee Babcock – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Norbert….. I agree with Beth; you should do what the doctor suggested >and have a sleep study. >During a sleep study, brain wave activity is monitored along with >movement sensors on the legs, so they can tell all kinds of things while >you are asleep. >Painless, but very revealing and its one test you don’t have to study >for! <g> >Regards >Lee in Toronto >—–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– >http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >—–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Sterrenkijker wrote: > On Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:07:04 +1100, "Tal" <beth…@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> overcome. After 4-5 hours of sleep I woke up each night feeling strong > >> cramps in both legs and I had to leave bed at once. At the same time I > >> felt that my right arm was swollen. After waking up this way I > >You could try making sure you drink plenty of water throughout the day, > >sometimes cramping is caused by dehydration. > I don’t think that dehydration is my problem. I’m not sweating for the > moment. It’s winter here. A few hours ago we got even snow outside! > I drink enough: coffee, beer, tea, milk, everything. > >You could also try taking a suppliment of magnesium and potassium before > >bed. > You are right. Well, it helps a little, especially a magnesium-calcium > supplement but it doesn’t settle it. I’m also taking 2.5 mg of > melatonin and I drink a cup of ginkgo biloba tea before bedtime. > Ginkgo biloba tea and a vit. B complex pill sometimes are sufficient > in summer (so without the mianserin) during hot days. > >>’When this doesn’t help’, he said, then I’ll send you to a sleep > >>laboratory. OK, if this is necessary I’ll go but I’m afraid that even > >>there they won’t find the reason of my complaints. If I just knew > >>there was a similar case in the world then I’d like to meet that > >>person. > >If you have a sleep disorder like restless leg syndrome or periodic limb > >movement disorder, that would certainly show up on a sleep study at a sleep > >lab, and would be useful. I would recommend that if you are concerned, you > >go ahead with the sleep study. > >Let us know how things go. > O.K., I’ll do so. But I also want to know how they can trace this in a > lab. > N.
Norbert….. I agree with Beth; you should do what the doctor suggested and have a sleep study. During a sleep study, brain wave activity is monitored along with movement sensors on the legs, so they can tell all kinds of things while you are asleep. Painless, but very revealing and its one test you don’t have to study for! <g> Regards Lee in Toronto —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–
Response:
> depression even if you didn’t have it before the meds.). If you want to try > something else, however, there ARE things you can do to make your life > easier.
Hi Lis can i use these suggestions on the newsgroup website? — Beth in Australia =================== FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://www.anchorweb.com.au/sleepdisorders this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles
Response:
> I don’t think that dehydration is my problem. I’m not sweating for the > moment. It’s winter here. A few hours ago we got even snow outside! > I drink enough: coffee, beer, tea, milk, everything.
It doesn’t matter what time of year it is or how hot it is, you can always get dehydrated. Coffee and beer and tea are all products that contribute to you becoming dehydrated – you need to make sure you drink a lot of water in addition to these things – plain water is very important! > O.K., I’ll do so. But I also want to know how they can trace this in a > lab.
In the sleep lab, you will be wired up to a computer that will track your brainwaves while you sleep, this tells the doctor how much sleep you get and what the quality of your sleep is like and if anything is abnormal. They will also put a sensor or two on your legs to see if your leg muslces move while you are sleeping. A sleep study will tell you a LOT of important information about how you sleep. If you want to know more about what is involved in a sleep study, visit this link, and be sure to click on the Wired For Sleep link too. http://www.anchorweb.com.au/sleepdisorders/sleepstudy.htm good luck — Beth in Australia =================== FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://www.anchorweb.com.au/sleepdisorders this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles
Response:
I sent this privately when I meant to send to the list. Here’s what I wrote: Hello. For your information, I found your English to be perfect You wanted to meet someone with your problem? Meet myself and my husband. He is going untreated for Period Limb Movement disorder/Restless Leg. I also have both, and am under treatment. While I have other symptoms, my husband wakes up all the time with terrible leg cramps. I have no known reason why your arm would swell, so I advise you to check this out thoroughly with an accredited sleep doctor and any other recommended physicians s/he refers you to. The reason the anitdepressants work is because they induce sleep. Be warned that it’s quite something to wean yourself off of them (headaches and depression even if you didn’t have it before the meds.). If you want to try something else, however, there ARE things you can do to make your life easier. 1) Melatonin works to induce sleep. This sometimes helps my husband sleep through his cramps. It is fairly safe and non-addictive. 2) I use Benadryl brand antihistimine (and the generic brands, too) to induce deep enough sleep to over-ride the symptoms. Many people are able to do this, and the next best drug is the clonezapam you tried, which I am allergic to. It’s also a narcotic (highly addictive). 3) Move your body. Get walking or leg exercise during the day. If you have an attack at night, get up and move a round a bit, then try again to sleep. Experiment with exercise times, as it takes a different routine with different timing (in relation to bedtime) for each person who suffers from this disorder. 4) Lose weight if you need to. Our attacks are fewer and less severe when we weigh less. 5) For some people, heat helps. Try a hot water bottle, bed socks, a heating pad or a hot bath before bed. 6) Do as much as you can to be very sleepy before you go to bed. Do as much as you can to fall asleep quickly. The longer it takes to fall asleep, the more likely it is that you’ll be woken by the cramping. So, take hot baths or showers to relax you. Develop good "sleep hygiene," which means do not use your bed to do anything but sleep in (no TV, reading, exercising, radio, etc…). Go to bed on a rigid schedule. Develop a bedtime routine that you can take with you wherever you go. If you cannot sleep, get out of bed and do something quietly until you are sleepy again. This trains your body to go to sleep as soon as you are in bed, and not wait for something interesting to happen . 7) Learn meditation and relaxation skills. They help. 
Check with a dietitian to see what you can do with your diet to lessen leg cramps (get lots of potassium, magnesium, calcium, etc.). 9) Get educated! Educate your Physician. See these websites: sleepnet.com http://www.sleepnet.com/ Talk About Sleep http://www.talkaboutsleep.com/ Sleep Disorder Channel http://www.sleepdisorderchannel.com/ National Center on Sleep Disorder Research http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/about/ncsdr/ Sleep Medicine Home Page http://www.users.cloud9.net/~thorpy/ Ambien (a sleep-aid drug, mildly addictive) Homepage http://www.ambien.com/ MSNBC Sleep Disorders page http://www.msnbc.com/onair/nbc/nightlynews/sleep/disorders.asp Sleepquest Sleep Disorders page http://www.sleepquest.com/s_sleepdisorder.html ivillage sleep disorders info. pages http://www.ivillage.com/topics/health/0,10707,234284,00.html American Academy of Sleep Medicine http://www.aasmnet.org/listing.htm That’s enough for now, but a websearch on the topic brings up thousands of hits. Good Luck Lis
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Sterrenkijker wrote: > Hi, > I’m Norbert, from Belgium. Sorry if my English is a little poor but > English is not my mother-tongue. > Three years ago I had a gastric banding operation. I lost 26 kilos > since. A month after the operation I had the following problem to > overcome. After 4-5 hours of sleep I woke up each night feeling strong > cramps in both legs and I had to leave bed at once. At the same time I > felt that my right arm was swollen. After waking up this way I > couldn’t fall asleep anymore during the rest of the night. After > jumping out of the bed the cramps blew over but so did my sleep. My > days were awful. I was tired all the time because my sleep had been > too short. This phenomenon never left me since. Up to now I’m > suffering from the same problem. > After rambling somewhat with several doctors (they didn’t know what it > was) it was myself who found a medicine. A certain night I drank a cup > of tea of Saint John’s wort and I felt this made me sleep somewhat > longer. This made me decide I had to look for an antidepressant. So I > went to a neurologist who gave me mianserin. It worked. Since I had > regular nights of 8-9 hours of sleep BUT the cramps didn’t disappear. > They remained present at the end of my sleep even when this one had > been long enough. Also my right arm was always swollen at the end of > the night. So up to now I’m waking up at normal times but the same > symptoms from three years ago are still a daily part of my life. > Anyway, I was able to sleep long enough and this made me revive. A > minimal dose of mianserin before bedtime was sufficient. Also another > antidepressant, such as Trozadone, had the same effect. > My question to the people here around is this: is anyone here > recognizing this? You know, it’s very odd that I have to take an > antidepressant where I am no depressive guy at all! And why do I only > need such a low dose in order to lead a normal life? Yes, my question > is why? And why is it chronic? Why do I need this every day? I tried > to stop taking the antidepressant and this works for a few days but > soon the same comes back all again. So I guess low doses of > antidepressant from now on will be with me my whole life. > I went to several doctors to find out. They said: probably > fibromyalgia, or the restless legs syndrom, or periodic limb movement > disorder. But every doctor makes me feel he is not familiar with and > this is something putting me off. I really want to know what I’m > suffering from and I’m not satisfied by someone telling me: it’s > probably this or it’s probably the other. No, I want certainty. The > last doctor I met gave me clonazepam but this was no success either. > ‘When this doesn’t help’, he said, then I’ll send you to a sleep > laboratory. OK, if this is necessary I’ll go but I’m afraid that even > there they won’t find the reason of my complaints. If I just knew > there was a similar case in the world then I’d like to meet that > person. > Kind regards to all of you > Norbert (from Flanders, Belgium)
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Response:
On Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:07:04 +1100, "Tal" <beth…@hotmail.com> wrote: >> overcome. After 4-5 hours of sleep I woke up each night feeling strong >> cramps in both legs and I had to leave bed at once. At the same time I >> felt that my right arm was swollen. After waking up this way I >You could try making sure you drink plenty of water throughout the day, >sometimes cramping is caused by dehydration.
I don’t think that dehydration is my problem. I’m not sweating for the moment. It’s winter here. A few hours ago we got even snow outside! I drink enough: coffee, beer, tea, milk, everything. >You could also try taking a suppliment of magnesium and potassium before >bed.
You are right. Well, it helps a little, especially a magnesium-calcium supplement but it doesn’t settle it. I’m also taking 2.5 mg of melatonin and I drink a cup of ginkgo biloba tea before bedtime. Ginkgo biloba tea and a vit. B complex pill sometimes are sufficient in summer (so without the mianserin) during hot days. >>’When this doesn’t help’, he said, then I’ll send you to a sleep >>laboratory. OK, if this is necessary I’ll go but I’m afraid that even >>there they won’t find the reason of my complaints. If I just knew >>there was a similar case in the world then I’d like to meet that >>person. >If you have a sleep disorder like restless leg syndrome or periodic limb >movement disorder, that would certainly show up on a sleep study at a sleep >lab, and would be useful. I would recommend that if you are concerned, you >go ahead with the sleep study. >Let us know how things go.
O.K., I’ll do so. But I also want to know how they can trace this in a lab. N.
Response:
> overcome. After 4-5 hours of sleep I woke up each night feeling strong > cramps in both legs and I had to leave bed at once. At the same time I > felt that my right arm was swollen. After waking up this way I
You could try making sure you drink plenty of water throughout the day, sometimes cramping is caused by dehydration. You could also try taking a suppliment of magnesium and potassium before bed. >’When this doesn’t help’, he said, then I’ll send you to a sleep >laboratory. OK, if this is necessary I’ll go but I’m afraid that even >there they won’t find the reason of my complaints. If I just knew >there was a similar case in the world then I’d like to meet that >person.
If you have a sleep disorder like restless leg syndrome or periodic limb movement disorder, that would certainly show up on a sleep study at a sleep lab, and would be useful. I would recommend that if you are concerned, you go ahead with the sleep study. Let us know how things go. — Beth in Australia =================== FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://www.anchorweb.com.au/sleepdisorders this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles
Response:
Hi, I’m Norbert, from Belgium. Sorry if my English is a little poor but English is not my mother-tongue. Three years ago I had a gastric banding operation. I lost 26 kilos since. A month after the operation I had the following problem to overcome. After 4-5 hours of sleep I woke up each night feeling strong cramps in both legs and I had to leave bed at once. At the same time I felt that my right arm was swollen. After waking up this way I couldn’t fall asleep anymore during the rest of the night. After jumping out of the bed the cramps blew over but so did my sleep. My days were awful. I was tired all the time because my sleep had been too short. This phenomenon never left me since. Up to now I’m suffering from the same problem. After rambling somewhat with several doctors (they didn’t know what it was) it was myself who found a medicine. A certain night I drank a cup of tea of Saint John’s wort and I felt this made me sleep somewhat longer. This made me decide I had to look for an antidepressant. So I went to a neurologist who gave me mianserin. It worked. Since I had regular nights of 8-9 hours of sleep BUT the cramps didn’t disappear. They remained present at the end of my sleep even when this one had been long enough. Also my right arm was always swollen at the end of the night. So up to now I’m waking up at normal times but the same symptoms from three years ago are still a daily part of my life. Anyway, I was able to sleep long enough and this made me revive. A minimal dose of mianserin before bedtime was sufficient. Also another antidepressant, such as Trozadone, had the same effect. My question to the people here around is this: is anyone here recognizing this? You know, it’s very odd that I have to take an antidepressant where I am no depressive guy at all! And why do I only need such a low dose in order to lead a normal life? Yes, my question is why? And why is it chronic? Why do I need this every day? I tried to stop taking the antidepressant and this works for a few days but soon the same comes back all again. So I guess low doses of antidepressant from now on will be with me my whole life. I went to several doctors to find out. They said: probably fibromyalgia, or the restless legs syndrom, or periodic limb movement disorder. But every doctor makes me feel he is not familiar with and this is something putting me off. I really want to know what I’m suffering from and I’m not satisfied by someone telling me: it’s probably this or it’s probably the other. No, I want certainty. The last doctor I met gave me clonazepam but this was no success either. ‘When this doesn’t help’, he said, then I’ll send you to a sleep laboratory. OK, if this is necessary I’ll go but I’m afraid that even there they won’t find the reason of my complaints. If I just knew there was a similar case in the world then I’d like to meet that person. Kind regards to all of you Norbert (from Flanders, Belgium)
