Question:
Any thoughs on what else I might consider doing for migrane prevention? this may be very problematic since migraines may be caused by so many factors. The first thing you can do is kep a journal to see what
I have tracked the causes of my migranes multiple times, although, it might not hurt to try it again. I think there is deffinatly a influance from poor sleep, and sinus congestion / presure. I am taking allgery shots, and use a varity of allgery meds, but I have not found anything that allows me to feel more rested after I sleep. triggers them. It may be sleep deprivation or poor sleep or napping, it may be foods that contain known causes like tyramine or other alkaloids like plant phytoins or it may allergenic even mite related
There are quite a few things my allgery testing show that I am allgeric to. I am fairly positive that this is a major factor that contributes to the migranes… or sinus related. You need to track them down with the wonderful methods of obsessive analysis you have on everything that befalls you-this is where you use these skills-to find what things happen in common to induce the headaches. If you cannot find any specific triggers you may wish to examine your emotional state or thoughts
I am sure that at time my emotional state contributes to my migranes. Like now for example, I know my pule is normal, my emotional state is pretty neural, and I am starting to get some migrane pain. I have a cold right now, so it is very easy to feel that it is comming from my sinus presure… prior to a headache. You may test your bp to see if it acts labile and drops percipitously or rises percipitously, your heart rate and pulse, to see if they speed up or slow down -become a detective and search for some of the triggers that you may have some control over. If you cannot find any, you could use triptins to abort them barring any other drug related contraindications for using these drugs, you could
I should try the ergotamie based drugs, I don’t know why none of the doctors ever offered them to me. I don’t seems to have a response to the triptans, most of the time, unless I get the migrane right in the begining, but I almost never catch it soon enough to have a triptan work. try using ergotamine based meds to abort them and more impressive, would be using a tca to prevent them which would kill to birds with
I am starting to think that a low dose tca might not be that bad. I am thinking about using Nortriptyline, but I would certinally be open to hear opinions on the use of other TCA’s. one stone perhaps….. sometimes some people find calcium channel blockers reduce migraines but they may also cause them so it is a double edged sword. depakote and topimax and trileptil can be tried but they can make you plenty tired-neurontin is a drug looking for a disease inderal is a crude beta compared to the more specific ones like metropolol (toprol xr) you could use this at low dose like 12.5mg (half a 25mg which can be broken at the split) once a day with possibly fewer drug to drug reactions and less fatigue then inderal =unless you use inderal long acting it really is a short acting med so
I have been taking 80mg LA bid, so I should have fairly good coverage with that… I am thinking that it may be worth looking to your suggestion of using a tca and seeing if that stops migranes before I look back to the betablockers again (i.e. toprol xl) it may be doubtful if it is doing too much to prevent migraines since as you sleep the serum level drops off and you may then rebound blood flow which can entrap more blood into cranial areas and triger a migraine-it may drop cardiac output more at one point in the day and
I noticed this before I started taking 2 a day. then rebound compensation at night as the little baroceptors in your vasculature tell the heart to increase bp or heart rate for more O2 into the cells-it is a balancing act you can become more involved in-you may also find that reducing solanacious foods like tomatoes and such reduces migraines
I sounds like reducing this group of foods, including tomatoes overall can help with a lot of things… (Fibro, migranes) eggplants tomatoes potatoes green or red peppers paprika and salt the nightshade group above contains a highly active neurotoxin that some people are sensitive to I would try it after running it past your rheumy-he/she may laught at you- Norman Childers diets have been the bane of lots of alopaths for
I’ll give it a try, the wost they can do is laugh…. Well they can do worse things, but they usally just laugh and stop returning my phone calls if they think I am too nuts. But then its time to find someone more open minded anyway if that happens… years but I have seen it work and in some cases rather remarkably-he also enourages a reduction of intake of vitamin D3 not D2 this is found in margarines and some other hydrogenated fats and oils as well as in some of the nightshades-it can shift calcium and phosphorous in animals -also keep in mind if you smoke tobacco is a nightshade
No Smoking for me… nmda postulations are simply emerging science like all other emrgent ideas it explains "some" things but hardly any in any really tangibly useful way yet- dxm in high doses may effect pain same as its cousins the opiods-but enormously less efficiently-I would opt for demerol rather then dmx for post surgical pain–fibro pain is something that sadly at tyhis time can only be managed or –lived with. You first need a comprehensive evaluation and fibro is concluded by ommission of
I will let you know as soon as I get the labs back, and the rhemy give a firm diag or wants to look more… passing the buck to a neurologist is a simple mistake-if they think you need an mri then they can order one and have it evaluated. I doubt you have ms
I hope your right that this is not ms. It was a bit scary to have a neuropschylogist after like 5 hours of testing so that my neurological difficulties looked organic, and he told me that often people in the ealy years of MS present the way I do… (The neuros have not done a mri in 2 and a half years now, no lp either) (My neuro pschyc testing indicated organic disease) My answer is always the same, All the neurologists have blamed problems I have had on *Complex Migrane*. other illness-thus far it looks like fibro-if it is–you may wish to try acupuncture before creating a narcotic addiction-your pain with
I did try it, (which was pretty brave for me, with my anxeity towards needles and all, and I didn’t even od on benzos before seeing the acupuncturist).. but it didnt seem to do anything at all for me… I agree though that if there is a option like the tca’s, acupuncture, chiro, etc that I can get to work for me, it would be better than being on long term narcotics… I did try acupuncture, massage, chrio, etc. The only one that seems to help on a ongoing basis in the chiro. The chiro seems to be able to get my back losened up and feeling better whenever it starts hurting. fibro has some clear cut trigger points that are usually somewhat symetrical-you can check out a chart somewhere on the net to see if you have almost all of these triggers-this is basically the only data
I think the rheumy found most of them. When he asked, I was sensitive to atleast half of the points he touched… based dx that docs find useful besides negative blood chemistry for all other auto immune issues except sed rate,that may be off the chart. If a chiropractor knows trigger points they can actually press the and relieve some of the pain by cutting off the blood supply to the area. Don’t try this yourself you can easily aggrevate the tissue and create a worse spasm then the ones you have-they can feel the
I will ask my chiro about this… muscle relax-if they do it often enough it can allow the muscle tissue to remain more supple and less painful allowing you to excercise more and build new muscle tissue that may be hardier. eventually adjust to the doses of narcotics-nsaids are used with equivocal effectivness btw, which is basically stated as (they are fair" for pain treatment.. I have been pushing around the max dose of naproysen most days, with a full 4-5grams of tylenol a day (I know I am going to need a liver transplant) they will not give you one if they discover you used toxic levels of acetamin—–tylenol is a weak analgesic and does little for fibro
One of my doctors has told me that it is ok to take up to 4 grams a day as needed… When I say I get to 5 grams it really depends on how you view it… I was thnking about this for a while last night… A couple days might looks like this: DAY 1 10 AM 1.5 grams 5 PM 1.5 Grams 9 PM 1 Gram Total for the day: 4 Grams DAY 2 8 AM 1.5 grams 12 PM 1.5 Grams 9 PM 1 Gram Total for the day: 4 Grams Buy if you look at the prior 24 hours when I take say my noon dose on day 2, I am at 5.5 grams for a 24 hour period. Normally in 1 Day, I don’t go past the 4 grams, it just depends on how you look at it.. So maybe I am just over anaylizing it…. But anyway you look at it, it would be better if I got it down a bit lower… pain using it chronically along with high doses of an nsaid is like drinking acetone and tar to your kidneys-you will not only blow out your liver but require dialysis for a few years as well-what most rheumies do is try different nsaids including acetylated salicylates
I have only tried a handful of the nsaids. I would be happy to try some more if the doc was intrested in doing this. For some reason none of my docs have ever suggest it… I was the one that asked to try other nsaids…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – like aspirin and non
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Response:
gatorade has too much sodium in it-drink water it is healthy I will keep having to try and convince myself that plain old water is good.. 
Just a side note.. Alot of professional atheletes (okay, I only know one..but still 
), tend to water Gatorade (and the like) down because it is just too strong to be drunk straight. But instead of Gatorade, how about getting some lemons and putting a squeeze into the water and then chill it. Thats always nice and is alot better for you Or, if you really can’t stomach that, try some of those sugar free cordials. Less calories/sugar/etc Zoe — What you don’t own a rat? What kind of freak are you?
Response:
varity of allgery meds, but I have not found anything that allows me to feel more rested after I sleep. doc ever give you singulair? It helps change inflamed sinus tissue
Actually I do have some, I have not used it since I had more asthmatic symptoms, before I saw the ent and realized that my asthma was mainly induced by gerd… I would not be opposed to trying singular again, along with trying to get myself to use a stroidal nasal spray on a daily basis. Maybe with thoes two, I could get away from the sinus migranes…. I should try the ergotamie based drugs, I don’t know why none of the doctors ever offered them to me. they have side effects are a bit rough and old..
Still might be worth a try if someone would scribe them… I don’t seems to have a response to the triptans, most of the time, unless I get the migrane right in the begining, but I almost never catch it soon enough to have a triptan work. including injectible ones?
Not positve, I had imitrex once, but they gave me 60 of toradol a within a few minutes, so I am not sure which helped that time. I have found in general that toradol doesnt do much for most migranes, so it is possible that the imitrex injectable did help. The reason I stoped persuing the triptans in addition to the pills being ineffective was because I went on luvox, which I read was counterindicated with triptans. thinking about using Nortriptyline, but I would certinally be open to hear opinions on the use of other TCA’s. this one would be fine-it isn’t as sedating as ami and may not have quite the pain modulating effects, but they would be close enough-just start very very low–almost all med failures of this class of drug is because doses were started too high
Is 10mg low enough? It looks like that is the lowest you can go unless you go to liquid because it says they are in capsules… I’ll give it a try, the wost they can do is laugh…. Well they can do worse things, but they usally just laugh and stop returning my phone calls if they think I am too nuts. your personality is very often misunderstood
I’ve noticed. :-) I am just glad that some people have spent the time to get to know me better. I hope your right that this is not ms. It was a bit scary to have a neuropschylogist after like 5 hours of testing so that my neurological difficulties looked organic, and he told me that often people in the ealy years of MS present the way I do… not necessarily-it does take multiple testing over some time initially to really tag it-and anything is possible in life but most of what you present seems to me to be a whole cluster of autoimmune and allergy issues coupled to a person who is highly anxious and suffers ocd and perhaps some higher functioning aspergers
I agree that you though of autoimmune / allgery, etc does seem very plasuable, and treatable or atleast managable. I will go with the fibro diag unless the rheumy tells me that some of the tests warrent a further look… I did try it, (which was pretty brave for me, with my anxeity towards needles and all, and I didn’t even od on benzos before seeing the acupuncturist).. but it didnt seem to do anything at all for me… sometimes it takes about three or so sessions but we are taught to be impatient
I gave chiro a lots of trys for things that it didnt really work for like migranes, with the acupuncture, 2 things stoped me, 1 fear of needles, and 2 cost, I think it was about $65 for a session, and insurance wont cover it at all. Not that I mind spending money on my care, I just don’t have any right now… I will ask my chiro about this… most pretend to know acupressure-but those that do just use it already-they find the trigger and press on it until it dissolves, then do the subluxation adjustment using the time released tylenol is a waste-more then 650mg q4h is about the safest dose and one that works as good as 1000mg/q6h the diff is the 4 vrs 6 hours! Using more then 4grams a day is suicide-combining it with high levels of an nsaid is a recipe for dialysis
I will keep working on trying to get this down to a lower dose, and I will see if I can get a doc to explore additional alterntive NSAIDs as you suggested… you can extend the time tylenol stays in your blood by taking some vit c after a couple of tylenols-about a gram of c-of course clear this with your doc-
Only complication I can think of is that I was told that vit C can nutrilize the effects of dexidrine… ask him for them-nsaids are one of the things used for fibro-response is variable just ask him for a sample of different ones he has them!
Will Do. drink fluids
I am doing well on the water / gatorade again today… I am considering trying Phenergan 50mg po at bed time for sleep, to see if I feel any more rested. I read that there were some sleep lab thests that showed it incresed stage 3 and 4 sleep in multiple painets. it can it is a safe med but ask your doc before using it please
I am going to drop him a note this aftenoon, and I will ask him if its ok to try… 2. I am already very fatigued and take 30mg a day of dexidrine most days to stay alert enough for driving and such. I am conserned about the sedating effects. The sedation is one of the main reasons I droped the benzos. Now I have only used maybe a total of 4 to 6 1mg doses of clonazopam in the past month, so I am using it maybe 10-15% of the time now at the most. Actually I cant remember taking once since before christmas…. it will make you tired-but at low doses I think you could handle it-the
worse that will happen is you think they suck and you won’t use it anymore Good point, atleast they are fully reversable. gatorade has too much sodium in it-drink water it is healthy
I will keep having to try and convince myself that plain old water is good.. I am a bit concerned with using a tca and dex-at your dose of dex. dex alone can cause rls or movement disorders and muscle pain-tca’s and amphetamines compete for a few neuronal sites-not a big deal but the doses can sometimes counteract some benefits and increase side effects, cause a bit of hypomania, etc.. they can be a bit synergistic for recitivistic depressions but one needs to supervise very closely-so your doc needs to address and know you have a tendency to self doctor which had best not happen
Yep, my regular doctor has a good idea of this, and he is good at not letting me get too carried away. Perhaps I will break up the dex tables into 5mg’s while i get used to the tca, and then go back up if necessary. Or maybe I will get better quality sleep, and only need to use dexidrine when I need to concentra more on things… Thanks again. I will write up the questions that we talked about for my doc and send him a note. I will also tell him I want to try the tca. Thanks, Jamie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
Any thoughs on what else I might consider doing for migrane prevention? this may be very problematic since migraines may be caused by so many factors. The first thing you can do is kep a journal to see what I have tracked the causes of my migranes multiple times, although, it might not hurt to try it again. I think there is deffinatly a influance from poor sleep, and sinus congestion / presure. I am taking allgery shots, and use a varity of allgery meds, but I have not found anything that allows me to feel more rested after I sleep.
doc ever give you singulair? It helps change inflamed sinus tissue I should try the ergotamie based drugs, I don’t know why none of the doctors ever offered them to me.
they have side effects are a bit rough and old.. I don’t seems to have a response to the triptans, most of the time, unless I get the migrane right in the begining, but I almost never catch it soon enough to have a triptan work.
including injectible ones? try using ergotamine based meds to abort them and more impressive, would be using a tca to prevent them which would kill to birds with I am starting to think that a low dose tca might not be that bad. I am thinking about using Nortriptyline, but I would certinally be open to hear opinions on the use of other TCA’s.
this one would be fine-it isn’t as sedating as ami and may not have quite the pain modulating effects, but they would be close enough-just start very very low–almost all med failures of this class of drug is because doses were started too high – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have been taking 80mg LA bid, so I should have fairly good coverage with that… I am thinking that it may be worth looking to your suggestion of using a tca and seeing if that stops migranes before I look back to the betablockers again (i.e. toprol xl) it may be doubtful if it is doing too much to prevent migraines since as you sleep the serum level drops off and you may then rebound blood flow which can entrap more blood into cranial areas and triger a migraine-it may drop cardiac output more at one point in the day and I noticed this before I started taking 2 a day. then rebound compensation at night as the little baroceptors in your vasculature tell the heart to increase bp or heart rate for more O2 into the cells-it is a balancing act you can become more involved in-you may also find that reducing solanacious foods like tomatoes and such reduces migraines I sounds like reducing this group of foods, including tomatoes overall can help with a lot of things… (Fibro, migranes) eggplants tomatoes potatoes green or red peppers paprika and salt the nightshade group above contains a highly active neurotoxin that some people are sensitive to I would try it after running it past your rheumy-he/she may laught at you- Norman Childers diets have been the bane of lots of alopaths for I’ll give it a try, the wost they can do is laugh…. Well they can do worse things, but they usally just laugh and stop returning my phone calls if they think I am too nuts.
your personality is very often misunderstood But then its time to find someone more open – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -minded anyway if that happens… years but I have seen it work and in some cases rather remarkably-he also enourages a reduction of intake of vitamin D3 not D2 this is found in margarines and some other hydrogenated fats and oils as well as in some of the nightshades-it can shift calcium and phosphorous in animals -also keep in mind if you smoke tobacco is a nightshade No Smoking for me… nmda postulations are simply emerging science like all other emrgent ideas it explains "some" things but hardly any in any really tangibly useful way yet- dxm in high doses may effect pain same as its cousins the opiods-but enormously less efficiently-I would opt for demerol rather then dmx for post surgical pain–fibro pain is something that sadly at tyhis time can only be managed or –lived with. You first need a comprehensive evaluation and fibro is concluded by ommission of I will let you know as soon as I get the labs back, and the rhemy give a firm diag or wants to look more… passing the buck to a neurologist is a simple mistake-if they think you need an mri then they can order one and have it evaluated. I doubt you have ms I hope your right that this is not ms. It was a bit scary to have a neuropschylogist after like 5 hours of testing so that my neurological difficulties looked organic, and he told me that often people in the ealy years of MS present the way I do…
not necessarily-it does take multiple testing over some time initially to really tag it-and anything is possible in life but most of what you present seems to me to be a whole cluster of autoimmune and allergy issues coupled to a person who is highly anxious and suffers ocd and perhaps some higher functioning aspergers (The neuros have not done a mri in 2 and a half years now, no lp either) (My neuro pschyc testing indicated organic disease) My answer is always the same, All the neurologists have blamed problems I have had on *Complex Migrane*. other illness-thus far it looks like fibro-if it is–you may wish to try acupuncture before creating a narcotic addiction-your pain with I did try it, (which was pretty brave for me, with my anxeity towards needles and all, and I didn’t even od on benzos before seeing the acupuncturist).. but it didnt seem to do anything at all for me…
sometimes it takes about three or so sessions but we are taught to be impatient – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I agree though that if there is a option like the tca’s, acupuncture, chiro, etc that I can get to work for me, it would be better than being on long term narcotics… I did try acupuncture, massage, chrio, etc. The only one that seems to help on a ongoing basis in the chiro. The chiro seems to be able to get my back losened up and feeling better whenever it starts hurting. fibro has some clear cut trigger points that are usually somewhat symetrical-you can check out a chart somewhere on the net to see if you have almost all of these triggers-this is basically the only data I think the rheumy found most of them. When he asked, I was sensitive to atleast half of the points he touched… based dx that docs find useful besides negative blood chemistry for all other auto immune issues except sed rate,that may be off the chart. If a chiropractor knows trigger points they can actually press the and relieve some of the pain by cutting off the blood supply to the area. Don’t try this yourself you can easily aggrevate the tissue and create a worse spasm then the ones you have-they can feel the I will ask my chiro about this…
most pretend to know acupressure-but those that do just use it already-they find the trigger and press on it until it dissolves, then do the subluxation adjustment – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – muscle relax-if they do it often enough it can allow the muscle tissue to remain more supple and less painful allowing you to excercise more and build new muscle tissue that may be hardier. eventually adjust to the doses of narcotics-nsaids are used with equivocal effectivness btw, which is basically stated as (they are fair" for pain treatment.. I have been pushing around the max dose of naproysen most days, with a full 4-5grams of tylenol a day (I know I am going to need a liver transplant) they will not give you one if they discover you used toxic levels of acetamin—–tylenol is a weak analgesic and does little for fibro One of my doctors has told me that it is ok to take up to 4 grams a day as needed… When I say I get to 5 grams it really depends on how you view it… I was thnking about this for a while last night… A couple days might looks like this: DAY 1 10 AM 1.5 grams 5 PM 1.5 Grams 9 PM 1 Gram Total for the day: 4 Grams DAY 2 8 AM 1.5 grams 12 PM 1.5 Grams 9 PM 1 Gram Total for the day: 4 Grams
using the time released tylenol is a waste-more then 650mg q4h is about the safest dose and one that works as good as 1000mg/q6h the diff is the 4 vrs 6 hours! Using more then 4grams a day is suicide-combining it with high levels of an nsaid is a recipe for dialysis Buy if you look at the prior 24 hours when I take say my noon dose on day 2, I am at 5.5 grams for a 24 hour period. Normally in 1 Day, I don’t go past the 4 grams, it just depends on how you look at it.. So maybe I am just over anaylizing it…. But anyway you look at it, it would be better if I got it down a bit lower…
you can extend the time tylenol stays in your blood by taking some vit c after a couple of tylenols-about a gram of c-of course clear this with your doc- pain using it chronically along with high doses of an nsaid is like drinking acetone and tar to your kidneys-you will not only blow out your liver but require dialysis for a few years as well-what most rheumies do is try different nsaids including acetylated salicylates I have only tried a handful of the nsaids. I would be happy to try some more if the doc was intrested in doing this
ask him for them-nsaids are one of the things used for fibro-response is variable just ask him for a sample of different ones he has them! . For some reason none of my – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -docs have ever suggest it… I was the one that asked to try other nsaids…. like aspirin and non acetylated ones like choline and magnesium salicylates-but not with tylenol! maybe a narcotic add on occasionally nsaids are worse individualistic drugs then psychoactive ones-you may need to try each
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no, yes. Well, I can read a lot of things, and asorb a lot of infomation, and I can think in the abstract quite well if so inclined and feeling well enough… I love to think about abstract concepts and bring storm about things like I did hear… Most of the time however I cant find anyone that is intrested in listening to me. Usally I am found to being borning, too technical, or most of the time people just say that my ideas a stupid or nuts…. so I often just junk them and leave them sitting the back of my head for another day and time…. I don’t quite know why I though of this, but in regards to abstract thinking,,,, I did develope a "Rube Goldberg" machine once that was extremely elborate… see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rube_Goldberg I think I used some 30 steps to do something terriable simple like throw a ball. I know I used a combination of: a solonoid, fire, a electric toy train, a mouse trap, a moving ball, etc all to throw something… Now I remember, I made a very small cow "jump" over a moon (it was cardboard wraped in foil).. I wish I had a picture of that machine I made… It was atleast 5 times as elborate as the one here: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/aa/Rubemachine.JPG and it was all done with simple steps, once after the next.. and it all worked!! I think I got a prize for it in high school… but I don’t remember that well… I get mad at myself for not remember details like that.. I guess i get upset with myself for stupid things that a lot of people might not remember.. Like it anoyes me that I don’t remember more german, even thoug I never took it in school, my mom know german pretty well, and I think I should have pickup on more of it…. Also it irritates me that I can’t rememer how to do algerba, but it irritated richard feynam in almost the exact same way. he could figure out algbera either… kind of funny in a way.. As feynman did,, I would have a eaiser time figuring out how to put together a nuclar bomb than I would completing a college level algerba class…. Anyway… physics in intresting to me in many aspects even though I get parts confusted like cp symmerty, and the decay of protons and anti-protons and such…. that bugs me that I cant keep all that theory a little bit more clear… but I guess a lot of that gets a bit more complex though…. but I guess it depends on who is looking at it…. anyway again enough rambling for me for now… talk to u all later… jamie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jamie Did you turn into some medical encyclopedia over night? Have you seen the movie, the Rainman? Wow, out of nowhere you start talking medical lingo. Maybe you can do the tests next time? Maybe your really . Margrove. Woosh… PS you better think about getting your locks changed. There was a one time a study done of DXM and MS-contin, with mixed results, but from what I can tell of the study, they did not differenciate the types of pain that they were studying. So someone with ms, fibro, back injury, nerve damage from burns, etc were all in the same catagory. So I question if the study would have come out differently if the pain types had been divided and studies seperatly… However, based on the fact that were was some degree of sucess with DXM most likely due to its NMDA properties from everything I can tell. Thus, based upon what you told me; Would it be plusable to study the effects of namenda with ultram, and also with ms-contin? To me it sounds like a good use to the drug namenda, extend how long a dose of a opioid can be used before raising the dose thus allowing opioids to be used at lower doses. (less side effects). Sounds intresting to me on paper, if someone would ever end up trying it or not in the real world in a controaled study is another question… Without knowing the possible long term problems with namenda, I am not sure I would want to be the first to vollenteer for this trial, but if I was to a point where I could not tolerate the side effects of a opioid, then I might want to consider a option like adding namenda… Jamie Is it likely that ultram has any action at protein-kinase C? Unfortunatly, this is beyond what was studied in the PI sheet. I think the question is related to how simular this is to opioids, but I really need to know specfically if there is any action on protein-kinase C. I am not even positive if this can be acertained from the currently available clinical data.. jamie tramadol is a synthetic opiod that binds to U opiod receptors so it functions like any other narcotic analgesic-where it differs is its greater affinity to inhibit reuptake of norepinephrine and serotonin to a greater degree then morphine-so to answer your question—yes
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Jamie Did you turn into some medical encyclopedia over night? Have you seen the movie, the Rainman? Wow, out of nowhere you start talking medical lingo. Maybe you can do the tests next time? Maybe your really . Margrove. Woosh… PS you better think about getting your locks changed.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There was a one time a study done of DXM and MS-contin, with mixed results, but from what I can tell of the study, they did not differenciate the types of pain that they were studying. So someone with ms, fibro, back injury, nerve damage from burns, etc were all in the same catagory. So I question if the study would have come out differently if the pain types had been divided and studies seperatly… However, based on the fact that were was some degree of sucess with DXM most likely due to its NMDA properties from everything I can tell. Thus, based upon what you told me; Would it be plusable to study the effects of namenda with ultram, and also with ms-contin? To me it sounds like a good use to the drug namenda, extend how long a dose of a opioid can be used before raising the dose thus allowing opioids to be used at lower doses. (less side effects). Sounds intresting to me on paper, if someone would ever end up trying it or not in the real world in a controaled study is another question… Without knowing the possible long term problems with namenda, I am not sure I would want to be the first to vollenteer for this trial, but if I was to a point where I could not tolerate the side effects of a opioid, then I might want to consider a option like adding namenda… Jamie Is it likely that ultram has any action at protein-kinase C? Unfortunatly, this is beyond what was studied in the PI sheet. I think the question is related to how simular this is to opioids, but I really need to know specfically if there is any action on protein-kinase C. I am not even positive if this can be acertained from the currently available clinical data.. jamie tramadol is a synthetic opiod that binds to U opiod receptors so it functions like any other narcotic analgesic-where it differs is its greater affinity to inhibit reuptake of norepinephrine and serotonin to a greater degree then morphine-so to answer your question—yes
Response:
ms is a different animal then fibromylagia and treatments can be paradoxical rather then straightforward for it
I do have to be more careful when I am using initials for things. I ment morphine in this case might be eaiser to test the namenda with than ultram. One clinical observation I noted was that ultram seemed to actually work for me to an extent while I was on effexor, but now I am off effexor, it does nothing.. it increased effexors already high affinity to change ne and 5ht levels
I was guessing it was something along these lines, but I didn’t know if there was a more complex method of action that I was unaware of. ultram is a crappy pain med afaic–fibro pain is usually unaffected by
I am not all that impressed with it thus far. I was told upfront that it might not work at all for me, so I guess I should not be so supprised, I just didn’t want to give up on it too eaisly, I am trying to stay optimistic. narcotics and is not used except intermitantly for all kinds of nobel reasons-you would do better with ami and excercise, reduction of stress, ditching your beta blocker, it exacerbates some of the
Any thoughs on what else I might consider doing for migrane prevention? (The ssri’s, Wellbutrin, topamax, neurontin have not helped prevent migranes in the past) without Inderal, I get 3 to 5 migranes a week. triggers for muscle pain in fibro and watching your diet to see if you consume larger quantities of the following food groups eggplants tomatoes potatoes green or red peppers paprika and salt the nightshade group above contains a highly active neurotoxin that some people are sensitive to
I know that I do eat a fair amount of tomatoes, potatoes, pepers and some salt. I take it that you suggest that i drastically reduce these for a few weeks or more and see if there is a difference? Can this neurotoxin sensitivity be tested for? Not sure what this is happening. If the cause can be assertained, then perhaps this effect can be reachived with something faster actiing than effexor, such as DXM… nmda postulations are simply emerging science like all other emrgent ideas it explains "some" things but hardly any in any really tangibly useful way yet- dxm in high doses may effect pain same as its cousins the opiods-but enormously less efficiently-I would opt for demerol rather then dmx for post surgical pain–fibro pain is something that sadly at tyhis time can only be managed or –lived with. You first need a comprehensive evaluation and fibro is concluded by ommission of
I did have a full eval from a rheumy last week, but all the doctors kind of mutter something about MS and ask me why the neurologists have not considered this further. (The neuros have not done a mri in 2 and a half years now, no lp either) (My neuro pschyc testing indicated organic disease) My answer is always the same, All the neurologists have blamed problems I have had on *Complex Migrane*. other illness-thus far it looks like fibro-if it is–you may wish to try acupuncture before creating a narcotic addiction-your pain with
I did try acupuncture, massage, chrio, etc. The only one that seems to help on a ongoing basis in the chiro. The chiro seems to be able to get my back losened up and feeling better whenever it starts hurting. eventually adjust to the doses of narcotics-nsaids are used with equivocal effectivness btw, which is basically stated as (they are fair" for pain treatment..
I have been pushing around the max dose of naproysen most days, with a full 4-5grams of tylenol a day (I know I am going to need a liver transplant) other so called muscle relaxers fair poorly for most patients-the
I agree, from what I have tried, they have done very little. (A little flexerial and skelaxin) problem isn’t muscle tightness or spasms it is muscle arthraligia __Pain from tissue fatigue and protein based waste products like lactic acid-excercise pumps out the waste and allows tissue to rebuild itself but it also stresses it and creates more pain-so it becomes round robbin-you can only find a very careful balance to what
I think I have to find this careful balance, because thus far, I have been able to do less and less at the gym or I should say it ends up taking me longer to recover. excercises you do and getting a more complete sleep so that tissue can
I would love to find a way to get more exercise, and feel more rested after I sleep. I have been cutting back on every pill I can. I dumped effexor, and klonlopin. The rheumy really wants me to take a tca though, I am not too excited about that, because of the side effects… heal and rebuild-this is what the ami helps most with, its analgesic profile is really weak-Using supplements like vit E in some pretty hefty doses under your docs care and using fish oils as well as glucosamine, chondroitin products (recent gait and guide studies show pretty good effectivenss for moderate oa, but it seems to help
These are very simular to the suggestions that the dietician I see recently put me on. I will have to ask about the chondroitin and MSM, and see if that is already to add in. fibro pain as well) and MSM a sulfa type compound. But most important—this is a problem that is usually only palliated-it is chronic and painful and annoying as all Hell-you cannot find a magic
I don’t belive in the magic crap that people try and sell you, but I keep thinking that science has to have a better answer for all of this that take a 30 year old anti-depressant and how u feel better. cure for it anywhere just Yet. It is hardly understood by any real Rheumy and any good one won’t throw prescription pads at it but work with you to change some things in your life and help you deal with them–it hurts and that is a compounding disability for you. you really need to stop trying to solve an unsolvable problem and
I’ve started ot realize that, it is hard because I want to anaylize everything, and I have tried so many things on my own, and I have had several years of doctors basically telling me its all in my head. It is nice to have a rheumy that is listening to me, and belives me. But I was the fisrt one in line to tell him that I barely belive that fibro is a real condition. I want to say it is caused by depression, or some undiagnosised sleep disorder (I do have moderate – severe PLMD that no one has figured out how to treat) or undiagnosised neurological disorder. One intresting thing I realized today, Last night, I took 100mg of visteral (atarax) I didn’t really notice any differency in my sleep, but I am more awake today and alert. Which I would have expected the oppsite because from everything I have read anti-histimines only make PLMD worse. (I really took it becase I was just dying from a sinus cold and the pain was keeping me up in addition to that, so I though I was see if it helped ease me into sleep, other than the very rare time, I dont have trouble getting to sleep anymore) I am still in a great deal of pain today, and found it hard to get around, as much as I tried. I want so badly to find a better way to deal with this or atleat a way to deal. I have worked so hard on my depression and anxeity, and I have come a long way. A few months ago, I would not have dreamed not taking benzos, much less anti-depressants. Not I am off everything, and the plan was to start Wellbutrin again to try and keep me more alert in the day, but I have not decided completly that I want to do that because I don’t know what to do about this whole TCA situation (The rheumy wants me to take a TCA, I don’t think I want to) I feel like I could do more for myself if I had a way to get past some of this physical pain, but I feel kind of stuck because I am maxing out on the nsaids and tylenol. (They do help, just not enough…) Perhaps I should get wellbutrin going, and see if it helps me get past some of this pain and do more for myself (exercise, etc.) because I sure as hell want to… Thank you, Jamie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
There was a one time a study done of DXM and MS-contin, with mixed results, but from what I can tell of the study, they did not differenciate the types of pain that they were studying. So someone with ms, fibro, back injury, nerve damage from burns, etc were all in the same catagory. So I question if the study would have come out differently if the pain types had been divided and studies seperatly… However, based on the fact that were was some degree of sucess with DXM most likely due to its NMDA properties from everything I can tell. Thus, based upon what you told me; Would it be plusable to study the effects of namenda with ultram, and also with ms-contin? To me it sounds like a good use to the drug namenda, extend how long a dose of a opioid can be used before raising the dose thus allowing opioids to be used at lower doses. (less side effects). Sounds intresting to me on paper, if someone would ever end up trying it or not in the real world in a controaled study is another question… Without knowing the possible long term problems with namenda, I am not sure I would want to be the first to vollenteer for this trial, but if I was to a point where I could not tolerate the side effects of a opioid, then I might want to consider a option like adding namenda… Jamie
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is it likely that ultram has any action at protein-kinase C? Unfortunatly, this is beyond what was studied in the PI sheet. I think the question is related to how simular this is to opioids, but I really need to know specfically if there is any action on protein-kinase C. I am not even positive if this can be acertained from the currently available clinical data.. jamie tramadol is a synthetic opiod that binds to U opiod receptors so it functions like any other narcotic analgesic-where it differs is its greater affinity to inhibit reuptake of norepinephrine and serotonin to a greater degree then morphine-so to answer your question—yes
Response:
Migraines. I remember them well. It could also be anger — nothing like it for that which ails ya.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ms is a different animal then fibromylagia and treatments can be paradoxical rather then straightforward for it I do have to be more careful when I am using initials for things. I ment morphine in this case might be eaiser to test the namenda with than ultram. One clinical observation I noted was that ultram seemed to actually work for me to an extent while I was on effexor, but now I am off effexor, it does nothing.. it increased effexors already high affinity to change ne and 5ht levels I was guessing it was something along these lines, but I didn’t know if there was a more complex method of action that I was unaware of. ultram is a crappy pain med afaic–fibro pain is usually unaffected by I am not all that impressed with it thus far. I was told upfront that it might not work at all for me, so I guess I should not be so supprised, I just didn’t want to give up on it too eaisly, I am trying to stay optimistic. narcotics and is not used except intermitantly for all kinds of nobel reasons-you would do better with ami and excercise, reduction of stress, ditching your beta blocker, it exacerbates some of the Any thoughs on what else I might consider doing for migrane prevention? this may be very problematic since migraines may be caused by so many factors. The first thing you can do is kep a journal to see what triggers them. It may be sleep deprivation or poor sleep or napping, it may be foods that contain known causes like tyramine or other alkaloids like plant phytoins or it may allergenic even mite related or sinus related. You need to track them down with the wonderful methods of obsessive analysis you have on everything that befalls you-this is where you use these skills-to find what things happen in common to induce the headaches. If you cannot find any specific triggers you may wish to examine your emotional state or thoughts prior to a headache. You may test your bp to see if it acts labile and drops percipitously or rises percipitously, your heart rate and pulse, to see if they speed up or slow down -become a detective and search for some of the triggers that you may have some control over. If you cannot find any, you could use triptins to abort them barring any other drug related contraindications for using these drugs, you could try using ergotamine based meds to abort them and more impressive, would be using a tca to prevent them which would kill to birds with one stone perhaps….. sometimes some people find calcium channel blockers reduce migraines but they may also cause them so it is a double edged sword. depakote and topimax and trileptil can be tried but they can make you plenty tired-neurontin is a drug looking for a disease (The ssri’s, Wellbutrin, topamax, neurontin have not helped prevent migranes in the past) without Inderal, I get 3 to 5 migranes a week. inderal is a crude beta compared to the more specific ones like metropolol (toprol xr) you could use this at low dose like 12.5mg (half a 25mg which can be broken at the split) once a day with possibly fewer drug to drug reactions and less fatigue then inderal =unless you use inderal long acting it really is a short acting med so it may be doubtful if it is doing too much to prevent migraines since as you sleep the serum level drops off and you may then rebound blood flow which can entrap more blood into cranial areas and triger a migraine-it may drop cardiac output more at one point in the day and then rebound compensation at night as the little baroceptors in your vasculature tell the heart to increase bp or heart rate for more O2 into the cells-it is a balancing act you can become more involved in-you may also find that reducing solanacious foods like tomatoes and such reduces migraines triggers for muscle pain in fibro and watching your diet to see if you consume larger quantities of the following food groups eggplants tomatoes potatoes green or red peppers paprika and salt the nightshade group above contains a highly active neurotoxin that some people are sensitive to I know that I do eat a fair amount of tomatoes, potatoes, pepers and some salt. I take it that you suggest that i drastically reduce these for a few weeks or more and see if there is a difference? I would try it after running it past your rheumy-he/she may laught at you- Norman Childers diets have been the bane of lots of alopaths for years but I have seen it work and in some cases rather remarkably-he also enourages a reduction of intake of vitamin D3 not D2 this is found in margarines and some other hydrogenated fats and oils as well as in some of the nightshades-it can shift calcium and phosphorous in animals -also keep in mind if you smoke tobacco is a nightshade Can this neurotoxin sensitivity be tested for? no -as said, it is not accepted as empirical evidence based science. The only studies that have been done are highly flawed-but anecdotal and clinical observations have shown me that it does help many people-It doesn’t cure it isn’t miraculous, but it helps Not sure what this is happening. If the cause can be assertained, then perhaps this effect can be reachived with something faster actiing than effexor, such as DXM… nmda postulations are simply emerging science like all other emrgent ideas it explains "some" things but hardly any in any really tangibly useful way yet- dxm in high doses may effect pain same as its cousins the opiods-but enormously less efficiently-I would opt for demerol rather then dmx for post surgical pain–fibro pain is something that sadly at tyhis time can only be managed or –lived with. You first need a comprehensive evaluation and fibro is concluded by ommission of I did have a full eval from a rheumy last week, but all the doctors kind of mutter something about MS and ask me why the neurologists have not considered this further. passing the buck to a neurologist is a simple mistake-if they think you need an mri then they can order one and have it evaluated. I doubt you have ms (The neuros have not done a mri in 2 and a half years now, no lp either) (My neuro pschyc testing indicated organic disease) My answer is always the same, All the neurologists have blamed problems I have had on *Complex Migrane*. other illness-thus far it looks like fibro-if it is–you may wish to try acupuncture before creating a narcotic addiction-your pain with I did try acupuncture, massage, chrio, etc. The only one that seems to help on a ongoing basis in the chiro. The chiro seems to be able to get my back losened up and feeling better whenever it starts hurting. fibro has some clear cut trigger points that are usually somewhat symetrical-you can check out a chart somewhere on the net to see if you have almost all of these triggers-this is basically the only data based dx that docs find useful besides negative blood chemistry for all other auto immune issues except sed rate,that may be off the chart. If a chiropractor knows trigger points they can actually press the and relieve some of the pain by cutting off the blood supply to the area. Don’t try this yourself you can easily aggrevate the tissue and create a worse spasm then the ones you have-they can feel the muscle relax-if they do it often enough it can allow the muscle tissue to remain more supple and less painful allowing you to excercise more and build new muscle tissue that may be hardier. eventually adjust to the doses of narcotics-nsaids are used with equivocal effectivness btw, which is basically stated as (they are fair" for pain treatment.. I have been pushing around the max dose of naproysen most days, with a full 4-5grams of tylenol a day (I know I am going to need a liver transplant) they will not give you one if they discover you used toxic levels of acetamin—–tylenol is a weak analgesic and does little for fibro pain using it chronically along with high doses of an nsaid is like drinking acetone and tar to your kidneys-you will not only blow out your liver but require dialysis for a few years as well-what most rheumies do is try different nsaids including acetylated salicylates like aspirin and non acetylated ones like choline and magnesium salicylates-but not with tylenol! maybe a narcotic add on occasionally nsaids are worse individualistic drugs then psychoactive ones-you may need to try each and every one until you find one that slightly diffuses pain to a more tolerable level-but if you use it for too long you may loose its positive benefit and gain its negative side effects like gastric ulcers-you may need to use combo meds like diclofenic sodium and misoprostil, or even celebrex to find what helps-you cannot other so called muscle relaxers fair poorly for most patients-the I agree, from what I have tried, they have done very little. (A little flexerial and skelaxin) rheumies still like to rx them they think they have some worth-for someone with a muscle spasm they do byt valium works better most of the time with less weird sensations and side effects problem isn’t muscle tightness or spasms it is muscle arthraligia __Pain from tissue fatigue and protein based waste products like lactic acid-excercise pumps out the waste and allows tissue to rebuild itself but it also stresses it and creates more pain-so it becomes round
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Response:
Wow. I got lost part way through on the list of meds they have got you taking and likely have been for years. Most meds that I ever took had a whole range of symptoms and side effects to go along with them. Every solution leads to yet another script. Someone is getting rich of us.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ms is a different animal then fibromylagia and treatments can be paradoxical rather then straightforward for it I do have to be more careful when I am using initials for things. I ment morphine in this case might be eaiser to test the namenda with than ultram. One clinical observation I noted was that ultram seemed to actually work for me to an extent while I was on effexor, but now I am off effexor, it does nothing.. it increased effexors already high affinity to change ne and 5ht levels I was guessing it was something along these lines, but I didn’t know if there was a more complex method of action that I was unaware of. ultram is a crappy pain med afaic–fibro pain is usually unaffected by I am not all that impressed with it thus far. I was told upfront that it might not work at all for me, so I guess I should not be so supprised, I just didn’t want to give up on it too eaisly, I am trying to stay optimistic. narcotics and is not used except intermitantly for all kinds of nobel reasons-you would do better with ami and excercise, reduction of stress, ditching your beta blocker, it exacerbates some of the Any thoughs on what else I might consider doing for migrane prevention?
this may be very problematic since migraines may be caused by so many factors. The first thing you can do is kep a journal to see what triggers them. It may be sleep deprivation or poor sleep or napping, it may be foods that contain known causes like tyramine or other alkaloids like plant phytoins or it may allergenic even mite related or sinus related. You need to track them down with the wonderful methods of obsessive analysis you have on everything that befalls you-this is where you use these skills-to find what things happen in common to induce the headaches. If you cannot find any specific triggers you may wish to examine your emotional state or thoughts prior to a headache. You may test your bp to see if it acts labile and drops percipitously or rises percipitously, your heart rate and pulse, to see if they speed up or slow down -become a detective and search for some of the triggers that you may have some control over. If you cannot find any, you could use triptins to abort them barring any other drug related contraindications for using these drugs, you could try using ergotamine based meds to abort them and more impressive, would be using a tca to prevent them which would kill to birds with one stone perhaps….. sometimes some people find calcium channel blockers reduce migraines but they may also cause them so it is a double edged sword. depakote and topimax and trileptil can be tried but they can make you plenty tired-neurontin is a drug looking for a disease (The ssri’s, Wellbutrin, topamax, neurontin have not helped prevent migranes in the past) without Inderal, I get 3 to 5 migranes a week.
inderal is a crude beta compared to the more specific ones like metropolol (toprol xr) you could use this at low dose like 12.5mg (half a 25mg which can be broken at the split) once a day with possibly fewer drug to drug reactions and less fatigue then inderal =unless you use inderal long acting it really is a short acting med so it may be doubtful if it is doing too much to prevent migraines since as you sleep the serum level drops off and you may then rebound blood flow which can entrap more blood into cranial areas and triger a migraine-it may drop cardiac output more at one point in the day and then rebound compensation at night as the little baroceptors in your vasculature tell the heart to increase bp or heart rate for more O2 into the cells-it is a balancing act you can become more involved in-you may also find that reducing solanacious foods like tomatoes and such reduces migraines – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – triggers for muscle pain in fibro and watching your diet to see if you consume larger quantities of the following food groups eggplants tomatoes potatoes green or red peppers paprika and salt the nightshade group above contains a highly active neurotoxin that some people are sensitive to I know that I do eat a fair amount of tomatoes, potatoes, pepers and some salt. I take it that you suggest that i drastically reduce these for a few weeks or more and see if there is a difference?
I would try it after running it past your rheumy-he/she may laught at you- Norman Childers diets have been the bane of lots of alopaths for years but I have seen it work and in some cases rather remarkably-he also enourages a reduction of intake of vitamin D3 not D2 this is found in margarines and some other hydrogenated fats and oils as well as in some of the nightshades-it can shift calcium and phosphorous in animals -also keep in mind if you smoke tobacco is a nightshade Can this neurotoxin sensitivity be tested for?
no -as said, it is not accepted as empirical evidence based science. The only studies that have been done are highly flawed-but anecdotal and clinical observations have shown me that it does help many people-It doesn’t cure it isn’t miraculous, but it helps – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not sure what this is happening. If the cause can be assertained, then perhaps this effect can be reachived with something faster actiing than effexor, such as DXM… nmda postulations are simply emerging science like all other emrgent ideas it explains "some" things but hardly any in any really tangibly useful way yet- dxm in high doses may effect pain same as its cousins the opiods-but enormously less efficiently-I would opt for demerol rather then dmx for post surgical pain–fibro pain is something that sadly at tyhis time can only be managed or –lived with. You first need a comprehensive evaluation and fibro is concluded by ommission of I did have a full eval from a rheumy last week, but all the doctors kind of mutter something about MS and ask me why the neurologists have not considered this further.
passing the buck to a neurologist is a simple mistake-if they think you need an mri then they can order one and have it evaluated. I doubt you have ms (The neuros have not done a mri in 2 and a half years now, no lp either) (My neuro pschyc testing indicated organic disease) My answer is always the same, All the neurologists have blamed problems I have had on *Complex Migrane*. other illness-thus far it looks like fibro-if it is–you may wish to try acupuncture before creating a narcotic addiction-your pain with I did try acupuncture, massage, chrio, etc. The only one that seems to help on a ongoing basis in the chiro. The chiro seems to be able to get my back losened up and feeling better whenever it starts hurting.
fibro has some clear cut trigger points that are usually somewhat symetrical-you can check out a chart somewhere on the net to see if you have almost all of these triggers-this is basically the only data based dx that docs find useful besides negative blood chemistry for all other auto immune issues except sed rate,that may be off the chart. If a chiropractor knows trigger points they can actually press the and relieve some of the pain by cutting off the blood supply to the area. Don’t try this yourself you can easily aggrevate the tissue and create a worse spasm then the ones you have-they can feel the muscle relax-if they do it often enough it can allow the muscle tissue to remain more supple and less painful allowing you to excercise more and build new muscle tissue that may be hardier. eventually adjust to the doses of narcotics-nsaids are used with equivocal effectivness btw, which is basically stated as (they are fair" for pain treatment.. I have been pushing around the max dose of naproysen most days, with a full 4-5grams of tylenol a day (I know I am going to need a liver transplant)
they will not give you one if they discover you used toxic levels of acetamin—–tylenol is a weak analgesic and does little for fibro pain using it chronically along with high doses of an nsaid is like drinking acetone and tar to your kidneys-you will not only blow out your liver but require dialysis for a few years as well-what most rheumies do is try different nsaids including acetylated salicylates like aspirin and non acetylated ones like choline and magnesium salicylates-but not with tylenol! maybe a narcotic add on occasionally nsaids are worse individualistic drugs then psychoactive ones-you may need to try each and every one until you find one that slightly diffuses pain to a more tolerable level-but if you use it for too long you may loose its positive benefit and gain its negative side effects like gastric ulcers-you may need to use combo meds like diclofenic sodium and misoprostil, or even celebrex to find what helps-you cannot other so called muscle relaxers fair poorly for most patients-the I agree, from what I have tried, they have done very little. (A little flexerial and skelaxin)
rheumies still like to rx them they think they have some worth-for someone with a muscle spasm they do byt valium works better most of the time with less weird sensations and side effects – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – problem isn’t muscle tightness or spasms it is muscle arthraligia __Pain from tissue fatigue and protein based waste products like lactic acid-excercise pumps out the waste and allows tissue to rebuild itself but it also stresses it and creates more pain-so it becomes round robbin-you can only find a very careful balance to what I think I have to find this careful balance, because thus far, I have been able to do less and less at the gym or I should say it ends up taking me longer to recover. excercises you do and getting a more complete sleep so that tissue can I would love to find a way to get more exercise, and feel more rested after I sleep. I have been
… read more »
Response:
Here is what I am getting at….. This might be a bit advanced for here, but anyway: Theory Namenda is a strong protein-kinase C inhibitor via NMDA action (and possible calcium channel blockade), combining Namenda with Ultram, may lead to a improvment in the effectivment of ultram, for certin types of pain.
and increases significantly the risk for seizure with insignificant pain modulation changes I am quite sure this theory is more eaisly proveable with ms and namenda…
ms is a different animal then fibromylagia and treatments can be paradoxical rather then straightforward for it One clinical observation I noted was that ultram seemed to actually work for me to an extent while I was on effexor, but now I am off effexor, it does nothing..
it increased effexors already high affinity to change ne and 5ht levels ultram is a crappy pain med afaic–fibro pain is usually unaffected by narcotics and is not used except intermitantly for all kinds of nobel reasons-you would do better with ami and excercise, reduction of stress, ditching your beta blocker, it exacerbates some of the triggers for muscle pain in fibro and watching your diet to see if you consume larger quantities of the following food groups eggplants tomatoes potatoes green or red peppers paprika and salt the nightshade group above contains a highly active neurotoxin that some people are sensitive to Not sure what this is happening. If the cause can be assertained, then perhaps this effect can be reachived with something faster actiing than effexor, such as DXM…
nmda postulations are simply emerging science like all other emrgent ideas it explains "some" things but hardly any in any really tangibly useful way yet- dxm in high doses may effect pain same as its cousins the opiods-but enormously less efficiently-I would opt for demerol rather then dmx for post surgical pain–fibro pain is something that sadly at tyhis time can only be managed or –lived with. You first need a comprehensive evaluation and fibro is concluded by ommission of other illness-thus far it looks like fibro-if it is–you may wish to try acupuncture before creating a narcotic addiction-your pain with eventually adjust to the doses of narcotics-nsaids are used with equivocal effectivness btw, which is basically stated as (they are fair" for pain treatment.. other so called muscle relaxers fair poorly for most patients-the problem isn’t muscle tightness or spasms it is muscle arthraligia __Pain from tissue fatigue and protein based waste products like lactic acid-excercise pumps out the waste and allows tissue to rebuild itself but it also stresses it and creates more pain-so it becomes round robbin-you can only find a very careful balance to what excercises you do and getting a more complete sleep so that tissue can heal and rebuild-this is what the ami helps most with, its analgesic profile is really weak-Using supplements like vit E in some pretty hefty doses under your docs care and using fish oils as well as glucosamine, chondroitin products (recent gait and guide studies show pretty good effectivenss for moderate oa, but it seems to help fibro pain as well) and MSM a sulfa type compound. But most important—this is a problem that is usually only palliated-it is chronic and painful and annoying as all Hell-you cannot find a magic cure for it anywhere just Yet. It is hardly understood by any real Rheumy and any good one won’t throw prescription pads at it but work with you to change some things in your life and help you deal with them–it hurts and that is a compounding disability for you. you really need to stop trying to solve an unsolvable problem and – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -jamie Is it likely that ultram has any action at protein-kinase C? Unfortunatly, this is beyond what was studied in the PI sheet. I think the question is related to how simular this is to opioids, but I really need to know specfically if there is any action on protein-kinase C. I am not even positive if this can be acertained from the currently available clinical data.. jamie
Response:
Is it likely that ultram has any action at protein-kinase C? Unfortunatly, this is beyond what was studied in the PI sheet. I think the question is related to how simular this is to opioids, but I really need to know specfically if there is any action on protein-kinase C. I am not even positive if this can be acertained from the currently available clinical data.. jamie
Response:
Here is what I am getting at….. This might be a bit advanced for here, but anyway: Theory Namenda is a strong protein-kinase C inhibitor via NMDA action (and possible calcium channel blockade), combining Namenda with Ultram, may lead to a improvment in the effectivment of ultram, for certin types of pain. I am quite sure this theory is more eaisly proveable with ms and namenda… One clinical observation I noted was that ultram seemed to actually work for me to an extent while I was on effexor, but now I am off effexor, it does nothing.. Not sure what this is happening. If the cause can be assertained, then perhaps this effect can be reachived with something faster actiing than effexor, such as DXM… jamie
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is it likely that ultram has any action at protein-kinase C? Unfortunatly, this is beyond what was studied in the PI sheet. I think the question is related to how simular this is to opioids, but I really need to know specfically if there is any action on protein-kinase C. I am not even positive if this can be acertained from the currently available clinical data.. jamie
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Is it likely that ultram has any action at protein-kinase C? Unfortunatly, this is beyond what was studied in the PI sheet. I think the question is related to how simular this is to opioids, but I really need to know specfically if there is any action on protein-kinase C. I am not even positive if this can be acertained from the currently available clinical data.. jamie
tramadol is a synthetic opiod that binds to U opiod receptors so it functions like any other narcotic analgesic-where it differs is its greater affinity to inhibit reuptake of norepinephrine and serotonin to a greater degree then morphine-so to answer your question—yes
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