Dreams = Stage 4 ??
Question:
Judy Simon <hurricane.j…@verizon.net> wrote: >If you have little or no stage 3 and 4 sleep in the sleep lab, does that >imply you have none at home too? Or do you sleep differently at the lab >than you do at home?
I’m sure that I sleep more soundly at home than in the sleep lab, I assume that’s true of most folks to some degree. I slept about my usual number of hours at my last titration, but didn’t wake up feeling nearly as good as I would have at home. Tom
Response:
Eric, I think we can dream in all stages but not very vivid in stages 1 and 2. Also the doctors, several who are permanent staff say deep sleep is not important and teach this to other doctors. I find this nonsenses because then a person would only get stages 1 and 2 and rem. Cpap knocked out my deep sleep as proven by my sleep studies and it was harder to keep weight off and now it finally came back. I am taking a drug for my co2 retention which I am pretty sure is knocking out my deep sleep as I am feeling more tired and sleepy and gaining weight though I exercise each day. There was a long term study that showed that when men grow older and lose more deep sleep they lose the growth hormone and lose lean muscle mass and gain weight. I am going off of the drug I am on since it is not working as I am feeling worse the longer I am on it. I still have my numerous changes in stages of sleep which do not allow me to wake up refreshed. Good to see you are still around as you were here when I came almost 4 years ago. "eric pearson" <db2e…@nospam.mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:b5b8fuo23u7ejrmmgpres7itq438jl4btn@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Dreams are in REM, > not the resorative ‘Delta’ Stage 3 and 4 sleep. > With normal sleep architecture, REM follows Delta. > With apnea, you can have REM without Delta. > Insufficient Delta is very very bad. > regards, > eric pearson > db2e…@nospammindspring.com > On 28 May 2002 04:58:00 -0700, amw…@aol.com (Andy Weiss) wrote: > >I know this is something I could just look up. But I thought I’d give > >you guys a crack at it first. > >Two nights this week, I actually fell asleep before I put my CPAP on. > >Don’t ask how, but it happened. Ok, I’ll come clean, I was just too > >pi**ed off to put the darn thing on to begin with. > >Those two nights, I am certain I had dreams. Several of them. LONG > >ones. I remembered them well the next morning. > >Does the presence of dreams mean that I am reaching the proper stages > >of sleep necessary for "healthy sleep" ?? If so, that is, if I am > >dreaming these extended dreams, reaching the proper level of sleep, > >and certain of that fact … and without CPAP … then maybe my needs > >for CPAP have diminished? > >Ideas? Opinions? Lunch orders? > >Andy Weiss
Response:
eric pearson <db2e…@nospam.mindspring.com> wrote: >Can you cite references for ‘here’s a residual effect from using the >CPAP and >>your apnea will actually be somewhat diminished if you try to sleep >>without CPAP’?
I think it’s known as the Splinting Effect. Some people’s airways remain more open for a period of time after stopping CPAP, it’s the reason some sleep labs want you to stop using the machine for a few days before a retest. Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Goes counter to what my sleep doc told me. >regards, >eric pearson >db2e…@nospammindspring.com >On Tue, 28 May 2002 09:07:43 -0400, Carol Pettit ><cpet…@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >>Andy Weiss wrote: >>> I know this is something I could just look up. But I thought I’d give >>> you guys a crack at it first. >>> Two nights this week, I actually fell asleep before I put my CPAP on. >>> Don’t ask how, but it happened. Ok, I’ll come clean, I was just too >>> pi**ed off to put the darn thing on to begin with. >>> Those two nights, I am certain I had dreams. Several of them. LONG >>> ones. I remembered them well the next morning. >>> Does the presence of dreams mean that I am reaching the proper stages >>> of sleep necessary for "healthy sleep" ?? If so, that is, if I am >>> dreaming these extended dreams, reaching the proper level of sleep, >>> and certain of that fact … and without CPAP … then maybe my needs >>> for CPAP have diminished? >>If you’re sleeping better without CPAP for a day or two at a time, it’s >>a pretty sure sign that CPAP is WORKING for you, from what I >>understand. See…there’s a residual effect from using the CPAP and >>your apnea will actually be somewhat diminished if you try to sleep >>without CPAP, but no, it does NOT mean that your NEED for CPAP has >>diminished. Sorry. >>Carol P.
Response:
eric pearson wrote: > Carol, > Can you cite references for ‘here’s a residual effect from using the > CPAP and > >your apnea will actually be somewhat diminished if you try to sleep > >without CPAP’? > Goes counter to what my sleep doc told me.
Sorry, can’t really cite a reference…it’s one of those things that I heard about here…should have mentioned that…intended to, but didn’t. Carol P.
Response:
If you have little or no stage 3 and 4 sleep in the sleep lab, does that imply you have none at home too? Or do you sleep differently at the lab than you do at home? Judy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -eric pearson wrote: > Dreams are in REM, > not the resorative ‘Delta’ Stage 3 and 4 sleep. > With normal sleep architecture, REM follows Delta. > With apnea, you can have REM without Delta. > Insufficient Delta is very very bad. > regards, > eric pearson > db2e…@nospammindspring.com > On 28 May 2002 04:58:00 -0700, amw…@aol.com (Andy Weiss) wrote: > >I know this is something I could just look up. But I thought I’d give > >you guys a crack at it first. > >Two nights this week, I actually fell asleep before I put my CPAP on. > >Don’t ask how, but it happened. Ok, I’ll come clean, I was just too > >pi**ed off to put the darn thing on to begin with. > >Those two nights, I am certain I had dreams. Several of them. LONG > >ones. I remembered them well the next morning. > >Does the presence of dreams mean that I am reaching the proper stages > >of sleep necessary for "healthy sleep" ?? If so, that is, if I am > >dreaming these extended dreams, reaching the proper level of sleep, > >and certain of that fact … and without CPAP … then maybe my needs > >for CPAP have diminished? > >Ideas? Opinions? Lunch orders? > >Andy Weiss
Response:
Carol, Can you cite references for ‘here’s a residual effect from using the CPAP and >your apnea will actually be somewhat diminished if you try to sleep >without CPAP’?
Goes counter to what my sleep doc told me. regards, eric pearson db2e…@nospammindspring.com On Tue, 28 May 2002 09:07:43 -0400, Carol Pettit – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<cpet…@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >Andy Weiss wrote: >> I know this is something I could just look up. But I thought I’d give >> you guys a crack at it first. >> Two nights this week, I actually fell asleep before I put my CPAP on. >> Don’t ask how, but it happened. Ok, I’ll come clean, I was just too >> pi**ed off to put the darn thing on to begin with. >> Those two nights, I am certain I had dreams. Several of them. LONG >> ones. I remembered them well the next morning. >> Does the presence of dreams mean that I am reaching the proper stages >> of sleep necessary for "healthy sleep" ?? If so, that is, if I am >> dreaming these extended dreams, reaching the proper level of sleep, >> and certain of that fact … and without CPAP … then maybe my needs >> for CPAP have diminished? >If you’re sleeping better without CPAP for a day or two at a time, it’s >a pretty sure sign that CPAP is WORKING for you, from what I >understand. See…there’s a residual effect from using the CPAP and >your apnea will actually be somewhat diminished if you try to sleep >without CPAP, but no, it does NOT mean that your NEED for CPAP has >diminished. Sorry. >Carol P.
Response:
Dreams are in REM, not the resorative ‘Delta’ Stage 3 and 4 sleep. With normal sleep architecture, REM follows Delta. With apnea, you can have REM without Delta. Insufficient Delta is very very bad. regards, eric pearson db2e…@nospammindspring.com On 28 May 2002 04:58:00 -0700, amw…@aol.com (Andy Weiss) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I know this is something I could just look up. But I thought I’d give >you guys a crack at it first. >Two nights this week, I actually fell asleep before I put my CPAP on. >Don’t ask how, but it happened. Ok, I’ll come clean, I was just too >pi**ed off to put the darn thing on to begin with. >Those two nights, I am certain I had dreams. Several of them. LONG >ones. I remembered them well the next morning. >Does the presence of dreams mean that I am reaching the proper stages >of sleep necessary for "healthy sleep" ?? If so, that is, if I am >dreaming these extended dreams, reaching the proper level of sleep, >and certain of that fact … and without CPAP … then maybe my needs >for CPAP have diminished? >Ideas? Opinions? Lunch orders? >Andy Weiss
Response:
amw…@aol.com (Andy Weiss) wrote: >Two nights this week, I actually fell asleep before I put my CPAP on. >Don’t ask how, but it happened. Ok, I’ll come clean, I was just too >pi**ed off to put the darn thing on to begin with. >Those two nights, I am certain I had dreams. Several of them. LONG >ones. I remembered them well the next morning.
Probably because your apneas were waking you up during them. 
>Does the presence of dreams mean that I am reaching the proper stages >of sleep necessary for "healthy sleep" ?? If so, that is, if I am >dreaming these extended dreams, reaching the proper level of sleep, >and certain of that fact … and without CPAP … then maybe my needs >for CPAP have diminished?
You’re getting, however briefly, into deeper sleep, but you’re getting yanked right back out of it again. Also remember the Splinting Effect, that lets a few people skip CPAP for a night or two with no ill effects, your second consecutive night without CPAP would probably have brought back your pre-treatment daytime symptoms. I’m sorry, but I really don’t see any good news here. Tom
Response:
On 28 May 2002 04:58:00 -0700, amw…@aol.com (Andy Weiss) wrote: >Two nights this week, I actually fell asleep before I put my CPAP on. >Don’t ask how, but it happened. Ok, I’ll come clean, I was just too >pi**ed off to put the darn thing on to begin with. >then maybe my needs for CPAP have diminished? >Ideas? Opinions? Lunch orders?
There have been some studies that indicate that the effect of CPAP will coast through for a day or two…. and that if they want to measure the RDI you’d have without CPAP, they have to have you sleep two or three nights without. — Visit Charlie’s Sneaker Pages: http://sneakers.pair.com/
Response:
You technically can dream in all stages of sleep. Deep sleep is stage 3 and 4. And you can get them with sleep apnea. What I did not get was REM until I used cpap. You know if the cpap is working if you feel better. But you MUST understand it does take time to get use to the machine. Fight it all you want. Use it or don’t it, it is your health. It took me a few months until really get use to cpap, once you do you don’t want to go to sleep without it. the question is what is bothering you? The mask, the breeze is one of the better masks that does not feel so contraining. Do I sound a little mean, maybe. I used cpap for 2 years and got very use to it but it never helped me but we found out that it knocked out my deep sleep but that might not be the problem Not until my 3rd sleep study we found I was retaining co2. Had major surgeries to correct sleep apnea and picked up another sleep disorder, got my deep sleep back but with alpha intrusions. Now I found out I have early stages of emphysema and some people have co2 retention which is what might be disturbing my sleep all along. So I was not lucky enough to be able to use the machine to help me and I had to use surgery to correct the sleep apnea. A special type of cpap called bipap is sometimes used to treat co2 retention but since the machines knock out my deep sleep I don’t have that option so I am trying other methods for it without success. Stick with the machine, you will get use to it if you look at it as something to help you feel better which it will do. Sorry but not anything I can say to help you but hang in there. "Andy Weiss" <amw…@aol.com> wrote in message
news:6b0f7239.0205280358.45dd2f14@posting.google.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know this is something I could just look up. But I thought I’d give > you guys a crack at it first. > Two nights this week, I actually fell asleep before I put my CPAP on. > Don’t ask how, but it happened. Ok, I’ll come clean, I was just too > pi**ed off to put the darn thing on to begin with. > Those two nights, I am certain I had dreams. Several of them. LONG > ones. I remembered them well the next morning. > Does the presence of dreams mean that I am reaching the proper stages > of sleep necessary for "healthy sleep" ?? If so, that is, if I am > dreaming these extended dreams, reaching the proper level of sleep, > and certain of that fact … and without CPAP … then maybe my needs > for CPAP have diminished? > Ideas? Opinions? Lunch orders? > Andy Weiss
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Andy Weiss wrote: > I know this is something I could just look up. But I thought I’d give > you guys a crack at it first. > Two nights this week, I actually fell asleep before I put my CPAP on. > Don’t ask how, but it happened. Ok, I’ll come clean, I was just too > pi**ed off to put the darn thing on to begin with. > Those two nights, I am certain I had dreams. Several of them. LONG > ones. I remembered them well the next morning. > Does the presence of dreams mean that I am reaching the proper stages > of sleep necessary for "healthy sleep" ?? If so, that is, if I am > dreaming these extended dreams, reaching the proper level of sleep, > and certain of that fact … and without CPAP … then maybe my needs > for CPAP have diminished?
If you’re sleeping better without CPAP for a day or two at a time, it’s a pretty sure sign that CPAP is WORKING for you, from what I understand. See…there’s a residual effect from using the CPAP and your apnea will actually be somewhat diminished if you try to sleep without CPAP, but no, it does NOT mean that your NEED for CPAP has diminished. Sorry. Carol P.
Response:
I know this is something I could just look up. But I thought I’d give you guys a crack at it first. Two nights this week, I actually fell asleep before I put my CPAP on. Don’t ask how, but it happened. Ok, I’ll come clean, I was just too pi**ed off to put the darn thing on to begin with. Those two nights, I am certain I had dreams. Several of them. LONG ones. I remembered them well the next morning. Does the presence of dreams mean that I am reaching the proper stages of sleep necessary for "healthy sleep" ?? If so, that is, if I am dreaming these extended dreams, reaching the proper level of sleep, and certain of that fact … and without CPAP … then maybe my needs for CPAP have diminished? Ideas? Opinions? Lunch orders? Andy Weiss
