Wellbutrin XL and Headdaches?

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Did anyone ever experience bad headaches the first few weeks of taking Wellbutrin XL?  Not a day has gone by without one.  They are resistant to 800 mg. of ibuprophen too.  I even went to my ENT and he gave me antibiotics and pain meds. He wants me to have a CT scan, I had it scheduled then my husband got the flu and since my son totalled my car I had to cancel.  I will try to get it done this Friday, my husband’s day off.  It really doesn’t feel like a sinus headache, and believe me, I know what they are after 20 years of suffering.  I have a past history of migraines and wonder about that.  I did read on the pamphlet the pharmacist gave me with the Wellbutrin that headaches and worsened anxiety can be common side effects but will usually go  away.  I see the Pdoc NP today at 5pm and I will ask her.  Just wondering if anyone here has had this experience or am I just wierd?  Thanks for listening. Vicki

I have been on Wellbutrin XL 150 for three day s now.  I was working out at the gym yesterday and instantly got the worst headache I’ve ever had.  It felt like what I would imagine a stroke feeling like.  It has since gotten a little better but it just feels like a lot of pressure in my head and neck.  I also have been really tired since taking it, which I know is at odds with what it’s supposed to do.  Already skeptical about it because my doctor told me not to drink coffee or alcohol, which I think may make me feel worse since I like to do those two things.

Response:

don’t really know if that is the case but can’t post there it just doesn’t show up-that’s life.

i know.  i’m'ah genius.  <smile drugs are either abortive or prophylactic, wouldn’t tha latter dictate tha resistence of tha former? ok.. i’m still stuck in tha 70’s and in high school. let’s do the time warp

AGIN???? are you’ah SWEEEEEEEEEEEEET TRANSVESTITE from tranSEXUALLLLLLL TRANSSSSSSSSSSSSSSylVANIA? (a mental find fuck CAN be nice) ask about using an ice pack or heating pad on your face on the FACE!!!!!

never let it be said that *i* passed up’ah decent facial from’ah shrink. i wish sumbody would tell me tha REAL scoop on how ta handle "restles leg syndrome"… my boyfriend has an appt with a sleep disorder doc on friday, i’m afraid he won’t know shit from shinola. is it a psych issue or a physical issue? It can be both-If there aren’t meds like ssri’s being used or pajor tranqs (antipsychotics) I see it as a kinetic issue-sometimes the muscles are too fatigued or not worked enough, sometimes it can be a vitamin or nutrional issue, some non psychiatric drugs can make it worse. I think just about everyone has experienced to one degree or another.

He is so worn out by it, it was about once a month, now about every night.  but not until he KNOWS it’s time to sleep. it is fuckin’ up his life, actually, i know that sounds ‘dramatic’… and the "TWITCHIES", as he calls it, dictate his sleep, he’s never rested, and it’s a chronic sorta "strange pain"… it is actually miserable for Him.  and gettin’ more miserable by tha day.  i made Him an appointment with’ah "sleep disorder" doctor, but i so don’t trust CRAP in oklahoma, and i gotta do all the appointment stuff cuz he will NOT admit it’s something that needs treatment. (men.) i heard dopamine is tha treatment of choice or opiates.  he won’t do tha opiate thang cuz he knows he’ll never get ta take even one with me around.  i dunno whaddah dopamine is, but if it works, they shouldn’t call it "DOPE" !   HAHAHAHA the psycholigical factor comes into play if it is caused by tension, depression or if one experiences it, how they awfulize it-like a charlie horse or a foot spasm-some people scream in writhing pain,

it’s gotten to that point.  writhing "pain", but not like regular pain.  it’s kinda weird to describe. others just shake it off-discomfort thresholds are different for everyone, the trick is trying to get them elevated. Drugs like requip or klonopin and valium, or the more shotgun muscle relaxers can help sometimes,

i gave him half’ah xanax a couplah times but it was like he got sleepy, but the "twitchies" didn’t stop.  he smokes, too.  i tell him that’s tha reason but of course, it’s futile. i lie a lot ta get stuff i want. but they have side effects and hazards, so one needs to weigh the risk vrs benefit-sometimes by changing sleep archetecture using a tricyclic

i gotta look ‘tricyclic’ up. at low dose can help get the muscles and the nerves

…….block the reuptake of the neurotransmitters norepinephrine and i’m printin this out for him ta take to his doctor, tha stuff i looked up on tricyclics. thank you so MUCH, Margrove !  i know that was’ah strange question, thank you for answering it. to calm down-in your boyfriends case, you might just be wearing him out

oh wait. well…… yanno. i’ve heard both. i’m in oklahoma. i give no credence ta much.  i’d much rather trust tha "ousted from ASAPM" Margrove’s opinion. Margrove?  CAN I MAKE AN APPOINTMENT WITH YOU, PLEASE?  i have really good insurance. I don’t accept insurance, I let the client pay and they file it and get reimbursed, it’s just cleaner that way, no conflict of interest, capitation etc..

can i be’ah client?  i file my own insurance anyways.  they BET on me forgettin’, i’m thinkin’… and half’ah time?  they’re right on tha money. (and would i have ta call ya "margrove"…. or could’ah call ya "DADDY?")

only if I sit on your lap i gotta "roomy" lap !  HOP ABOARD ! shah-reeeeeeeeenks are all touchy bout that stuff, eh?  i’m gonna assume you superceded that crap, Daddy. :X ~t time to go now aloha

hey !!!!!!  whaddah bout that groovy lei ya promised me, DADDY? (it’s so hard ta track ‘em down once they’re on’ah mission.) xoxoxoxoxxo ~tanya

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I believe you mentioned on asapm ( I cannot respond there, moderators or something) HOUSTON?  WE DEFINITELY HAVE’AH PROBLEM ! don’t really know if that is the case but can’t post there it just doesn’t show up-that’s life.

Of course your posts are *not* rejected, you would get a message saying they were rejected in the first place. This has nothing to do with moderation but rather with some technical matter. Ask Vashti or Anna or Dan, they’ll be able to hekp you post at ASAPM where you are sorely missed! Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -drugs are either abortive or prophylactic, wouldn’t tha latter dictate tha resistence of tha former? ok.. i’m still stuck in tha 70’s and in high school. let’s do the time warp ask about using an ice pack or heating pad on your face on the FACE!!!!! i wish sumbody would tell me tha REAL scoop on how ta handle "restles leg syndrome"… my boyfriend has an appt with a sleep disorder doc on friday, i’m afraid he won’t know shit from shinola. is it a psych issue or a physical issue? It can be both-If there aren’t meds like ssri’s being used or pajor tranqs (antipsychotics) I see it as a kinetic issue-sometimes the muscles are too fatigued or not worked enough, sometimes it can be a vitamin or nutrional issue, some non psychiatric drugs can make it worse. I think just about everyone has experienced to one degree or another, the psycholigical factor comes into play if it is caused by tension, depression or if one experiences it, how they awfulize it-like a charlie horse or a foot spasm-some people scream in writhing pain, others just shake it off-discomfort thresholds are different for everyone, the trick is trying to get them elevated. Drugs like requip or klonopin and valium, or the more shotgun muscle relaxers can help sometimes, but they have side effects and hazards, so one needs to weigh the risk vrs benefit-sometimes by changing sleep archetecture using a tricyclic at low dose can help get the muscles and the nerves to calm down-in your boyfriends case, you might just be wearing him out i’ve heard both. i’m in oklahoma. i give no credence ta much.  i’d much rather trust tha "ousted from ASAPM" Margrove’s opinion. Margrove?  CAN I MAKE AN APPOINTMENT WITH YOU, PLEASE?  i have really good insurance. I don’t accept insurance, I let the client pay and they file it and get reimbursed, it’s just cleaner that way, no conflict of interest, capitation etc.. (and would i have ta call ya "margrove"…. or could’ah call ya "DADDY?") only if I sit on your lap shah-reeeeeeeeenks are all touchy bout that stuff, eh?  i’m gonna assume you superceded that crap, Daddy. :X ~t time to go now aloha

Response:

"I don’t accept insurance, I let the client pay and they file it and get reimbursed, it’s just cleaner that way, no conflict of interest, capitation etc." I wouldn’t either.  If you’re good, people will pay your price.

OH HOLY !  ya gotta pay their price even if they suck.  (unless yer a fuckin’ bitch’n pull yer file and cash outtah their office)  but HEY ! who would ever do THAT? Ever notice how the best doctors in town have the smallest print in the yellow pages?

yeah, cuz they’re in hawaii…keepin’ a low profile.  WITH THA SWEETEST Translation of above for people unfamiliar with third-party "payers"…. The doctor has decided that he deserves

why ain’t they regulated?  why do THEY get ta decide what they charge before the service has been purveyed?  i mean…. i’m a lowly piercer… and ya think even *i* would decide my OWN worth when my guess what… if someone’s not TOTALLY HAPPY and JUMPIN’ UP’N DOWN with muh service, they get their moolah BACK ! ain’t ever happened, by tha  WELCOME TO AMERICA ! i’m sure Margrove is worth every penny he has decided, but how often does THAT happen?  are ya gettin’ muh drift? WHAT a concept !!  If he "accepts/files" insurance for the patients he sees, the insurance company will have a "usual and customary rate" that is considerably lower than anyone would actually charge (making one wonder why it is audaciously called "usual" or "customary" – unbelievable)..

i dunno… my insurance company decides how much THEY pay, and frankly, i don’t GIVE’ah GOOD GODDAM HOW much they pay if i gettah dude/dudette that’s stepped out for a smoke, even, away from that ivory tower. Gar?  yer lucky and so was i at one point.  now…. let’s see ya go on’ah search for ANOTHER shrink.  let’s say yours gets hit by’ah bus… (i love that scenario cuz it never happens), but let’s just say…. HOW you gonna find what you need without trial and error?  AND TRIAL AND ERROR IS QUITE EXPENSIVE, even with kick-ass insurance…  and PLEASE don’t say you’ll "interview him/her first"…. i’ll beatcha like’ah steel drum. The other insurance scenario is that the doctor signs a contract, let’s say with Aetna or Blue Cross/Blue Shield, and is then either designated a "preferred provider" or a "participating provider" – he essentially has to agree to see the patient, provide all the same services, and recieve a "capitated" amount.  In the case of my own physician, he charges 160.00 an hour – however, in order to have a contract with BC/BS, he can only receive 118.60 per hour,

(he’s gonna have ta dumb down ta Stolichnaya…. i hate ta tell him…) GREY GOOSE IS GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN !  and is actually not allowed to charge me the difference – it’s contractual and I’m not even kidding…  This obviously (once you know it, and are his patient) creates a bad feeling for someone like me, knowing that the physician is not recieving what he actually would like to be paid per hour

YOU FEEL BAD HE’S NOT MAKIN’ WHAT HE WANTSSSSSSSSS PER HOUR?  WELL shit… i want 895 bucks per hour… feel bad fer me. (and his fee is certainly consistent with that of other psych docs).

ok… i’m gonna vomit…  you DO gotta special circumstance, Gar… most ain’t worth tha hair gel they get from tha dollar store per hour.  On the other hand, I do know that he signed said contract volitionally, so I have to pretty much just allow the whole thing – it is not in my sphere of influence.

ya gotta stop takin’ on those massive problems of others.  fa real. has he ever given you a kick-back for bein’ his "cash cow" for 16, almost 17 years? hell, even *i* do that for those that’ve been pierced or tatted over $500 bucks….  now puh-lease. LM, I certainly agree that you should never accept insurance.

i think he accepts it, or people with it, i just don’t think he purveys it. hell, i’d give Daddy anything he wants !  i mean he IS sittin’ in muh lap… i’m kinda at’ah disadvantage. i DO wish he’d sit still, tho… it’s makin’ tha cellulite on muh thighs wiggle. (ewwwwwwww) ahhhhhhhhh, just’n time… <slurp (i’m glad that cabana boy didn’t see that) lalalaallaa ~t

Response:

Sorry to top post but could you tell me the side effects of Requip?  She put me on it a couple of weeks ago and I haven’t noticed anything, or I could be missing something. Vicki

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I believe you mentioned on asapm ( I cannot respond there, moderators or something) HOUSTON?  WE DEFINITELY HAVE’AH PROBLEM ! don’t really know if that is the case but can’t post there it just doesn’t show up-that’s life. drugs are either abortive or prophylactic, wouldn’t tha latter dictate tha resistence of tha former? ok.. i’m still stuck in tha 70’s and in high school. let’s do the time warp ask about using an ice pack or heating pad on your face on the FACE!!!!! i wish sumbody would tell me tha REAL scoop on how ta handle "restles leg syndrome"… my boyfriend has an appt with a sleep disorder doc on friday, i’m afraid he won’t know shit from shinola. is it a psych issue or a physical issue? It can be both-If there aren’t meds like ssri’s being used or pajor tranqs (antipsychotics) I see it as a kinetic issue-sometimes the muscles are too fatigued or not worked enough, sometimes it can be a vitamin or nutrional issue, some non psychiatric drugs can make it worse. I think just about everyone has experienced to one degree or another, the psycholigical factor comes into play if it is caused by tension, depression or if one experiences it, how they awfulize it-like a charlie horse or a foot spasm-some people scream in writhing pain, others just shake it off-discomfort thresholds are different for everyone, the trick is trying to get them elevated. Drugs like requip or klonopin and valium, or the more shotgun muscle relaxers can help sometimes, but they have side effects and hazards, so one needs to weigh the risk vrs benefit-sometimes by changing sleep archetecture using a tricyclic at low dose can help get the muscles and the nerves to calm down-in your boyfriends case, you might just be wearing him out i’ve heard both. i’m in oklahoma. i give no credence ta much.  i’d much rather trust tha "ousted from ASAPM" Margrove’s opinion. Margrove?  CAN I MAKE AN APPOINTMENT WITH YOU, PLEASE?  i have really good insurance. I don’t accept insurance, I let the client pay and they file it and get reimbursed, it’s just cleaner that way, no conflict of interest, capitation etc.. (and would i have ta call ya "margrove"…. or could’ah call ya "DADDY?") only if I sit on your lap shah-reeeeeeeeenks are all touchy bout that stuff, eh?  i’m gonna assume you superceded that crap, Daddy. :X ~t time to go now aloha

Response:

Sorry to top post but could you tell me the side effects of Requip?

fatigue, drowsy, and      headaches! I think this may be the culprit it can cause some other sacry side effects but they are rare, describing them may be counterproductive, if you stopped this med and the headaches go away, you nailed it-do ask your doc first of course-there are no discontinuation effects  She put – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -me on it a couple of weeks ago and I haven’t noticed anything, or I could be missing something. Vicki I believe you mentioned on asapm ( I cannot respond there, moderators or something) HOUSTON?  WE DEFINITELY HAVE’AH PROBLEM ! don’t really know if that is the case but can’t post there it just doesn’t show up-that’s life. drugs are either abortive or prophylactic, wouldn’t tha latter dictate tha resistence of tha former? ok.. i’m still stuck in tha 70’s and in high school. let’s do the time warp ask about using an ice pack or heating pad on your face on the FACE!!!!! i wish sumbody would tell me tha REAL scoop on how ta handle "restles leg syndrome"… my boyfriend has an appt with a sleep disorder doc on friday, i’m afraid he won’t know shit from shinola. is it a psych issue or a physical issue? It can be both-If there aren’t meds like ssri’s being used or pajor tranqs (antipsychotics) I see it as a kinetic issue-sometimes the muscles are too fatigued or not worked enough, sometimes it can be a vitamin or nutrional issue, some non psychiatric drugs can make it worse. I think just about everyone has experienced to one degree or another, the psycholigical factor comes into play if it is caused by tension, depression or if one experiences it, how they awfulize it-like a charlie horse or a foot spasm-some people scream in writhing pain, others just shake it off-discomfort thresholds are different for everyone, the trick is trying to get them elevated. Drugs like requip or klonopin and valium, or the more shotgun muscle relaxers can help sometimes, but they have side effects and hazards, so one needs to weigh the risk vrs benefit-sometimes by changing sleep archetecture using a tricyclic at low dose can help get the muscles and the nerves to calm down-in your boyfriends case, you might just be wearing him out i’ve heard both. i’m in oklahoma. i give no credence ta much.  i’d much rather trust tha "ousted from ASAPM" Margrove’s opinion. Margrove?  CAN I MAKE AN APPOINTMENT WITH YOU, PLEASE?  i have really good insurance. I don’t accept insurance, I let the client pay and they file it and get reimbursed, it’s just cleaner that way, no conflict of interest, capitation etc.. (and would i have ta call ya "margrove"…. or could’ah call ya "DADDY?") only if I sit on your lap shah-reeeeeeeeenks are all touchy bout that stuff, eh?  i’m gonna assume you superceded that crap, Daddy. :X ~t time to go now aloha

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Did anyone ever experience bad headaches the first few weeks of taking Wellbutrin XL?  Not a day has gone by without one. headaches as well as al kinds of side effects can be caused by almost any medication. Wellbutrin is a potent drug that activates some amines that may be responsible to cause migraines in some people, so it is possible this is a possible culprit 800 mg. of ibuprophen too. migraines rarely respond to ibuprophen when full blown-other drugs work better

That explains a lot. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I believe you mentioned on asapm ( I cannot respond there, moderators or something) your ent administered antibiotics, so he would have reason  to believe you needed them so it may be that his examination indicated you do have a sinus condition that may be an acute infection or some other possible condition like polyps or an obstructed sinus-hence the ct scan-headaches can be caused by all kinds of things, they are a symptoms per se, so allergy, diet, stress, depression or your current meds, hormones, sleep etc all may be contributory. Ask your ent if using a steroid spray may help this along, as well as trying an antihistamine like allegra etc.. Migraine drugs are either abortive or prophylactic, there are many you could try if this is indeed migraine. Migraine is typically pain localized around one eye, you have sensitivity to light, sound and feel nausea, it worsens when you excert yourself or bend your head downward-it may be preceded by an auro of some kind usually visual, sometimes a mood change-and can last for days, or be daily. Sinus headaches can mimic migraine, but the tell is usually congestion and discharge as well as pain focused at the sinus site-facial pain, pain when you press on tissue around any of the sinus cavities-if wellbutrin is kicking them off, it is a roll of the dice if they will go away-weren’t you on wellbutrin before? You could ask your pdoc if you can skip one dose of wellbutrin to see if the pain goes away within 12 hours or so -ask about using an ice pack or heating pad on your face

I was on it for a short time last summer.  Didn’t notice the headaches so it’s possible sinus.  I will call my ENT about a spray and maybe something for pain besides ibuprophen.  He will give me Lortab, which I only take when I just feel I am dying.  Scared of stuff like that long term.  I like the effects Wellbutrin has had on my depression.  I saw the Pdoc NP yesterday and she decided to keep my dose at 150mg and if I felt it needed to be raised, to call her (there have been some extended family problems that are probably affecting my mood the last few days.  I know I was extremely upset due to an altercation immediately before I left to go to the doctor. Thanks. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -and pain meds. He wants me to have a CT scan, I had it scheduled then my husband got the flu and since my son totalled my car I had to cancel.  I will try to get it done this Friday, my husband’s day off.  It really doesn’t feel like a sinus headache, and believe me, I know what they are after 20 years of suffering.  I have a past history of migraines and wonder about that.  I did read on the pamphlet the pharmacist gave me with the Wellbutrin that headaches and worsened anxiety can be common side effects but will usually go  away.  I see the Pdoc NP today at 5pm and I will ask her.  Just wondering if anyone here has had this experience or am I just wierd?  Thanks for listening. Vicki

Response:

"I don’t accept insurance, I let the client pay and they file it and get reimbursed, it’s just cleaner that way, no conflict of interest, capitation etc." I wouldn’t either.  If you’re good, people will pay your price.  Ever notice how the best doctors in town have the smallest print in the yellow pages? Translation of above for people unfamiliar with third-party "payers"…. The doctor has decided that he deserves the fee that he charges, in it’s entirety – WHAT a concept !!  If he "accepts/files" insurance for the patients he sees, the insurance company will have a "usual and customary rate" that is considerably lower than anyone would actually charge (making one wonder why it is audaciously called "usual" or "customary" – unbelievable)..  The other insurance scenario is that the doctor signs a contract, let’s say with Aetna or Blue Cross/Blue Shield, and is then either designated a "preferred provider" or a "participating provider" – he essentially has to agree to see the patient, provide all the same services, and recieve a "capitated" amount.  In the case of my own physician, he charges 160.00 an hour – however, in order to have a contract with BC/BS, he can only receive 118.60 per hour, and is actually not allowed to charge me the difference – it’s contractual and I’m not even kidding…  This obviously (once you know it, and are his patient) creates a bad feeling for someone like me, knowing that the physician is not recieving what he actually would like to be paid per hour (and his fee is certainly consistent with that of other psych docs).  On the other hand, I do know that he signed said contract volitionally, so I have to pretty much just allow the whole thing – it is not in my sphere of influence. LM, I certainly agree that you should never accept insurance. G

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I believe you mentioned on asapm ( I cannot respond there, moderators or something) HOUSTON?  WE DEFINITELY HAVE’AH PROBLEM ! don’t really know if that is the case but can’t post there it just doesn’t show up-that’s life. drugs are either abortive or prophylactic, wouldn’t tha latter dictate tha resistence of tha former? ok.. i’m still stuck in tha 70’s and in high school. let’s do the time warp ask about using an ice pack or heating pad on your face on the FACE!!!!! i wish sumbody would tell me tha REAL scoop on how ta handle "restles leg syndrome"… my boyfriend has an appt with a sleep disorder doc on friday, i’m afraid he won’t know shit from shinola. is it a psych issue or a physical issue? It can be both-If there aren’t meds like ssri’s being used or pajor tranqs (antipsychotics) I see it as a kinetic issue-sometimes the muscles are too fatigued or not worked enough, sometimes it can be a vitamin or nutrional issue, some non psychiatric drugs can make it worse. I think just about everyone has experienced to one degree or another, the psycholigical factor comes into play if it is caused by tension, depression or if one experiences it, how they awfulize it-like a charlie horse or a foot spasm-some people scream in writhing pain, others just shake it off-discomfort thresholds are different for everyone, the trick is trying to get them elevated. Drugs like requip or klonopin and valium, or the more shotgun muscle relaxers can help sometimes, but they have side effects and hazards, so one needs to weigh the risk vrs benefit-sometimes by changing sleep archetecture using a tricyclic at low dose can help get the muscles and the nerves to calm down-in your boyfriends case, you might just be wearing him out i’ve heard both. i’m in oklahoma. i give no credence ta much.  i’d much rather trust tha "ousted from ASAPM" Margrove’s opinion. Margrove?  CAN I MAKE AN APPOINTMENT WITH YOU, PLEASE?  i have really good insurance. I don’t accept insurance, I let the client pay and they file it and get reimbursed, it’s just cleaner that way, no conflict of interest, capitation etc.. (and would i have ta call ya "margrove"…. or could’ah call ya "DADDY?") only if I sit on your lap shah-reeeeeeeeenks are all touchy bout that stuff, eh?  i’m gonna assume you superceded that crap, Daddy. :X ~t time to go now aloha

Response:

I believe you mentioned on asapm ( I cannot respond there, moderators or something) HOUSTON?  WE DEFINITELY HAVE’AH PROBLEM !

don’t really know if that is the case but can’t post there it just doesn’t show up-that’s life. drugs are either abortive or prophylactic, wouldn’t tha latter dictate tha resistence of tha former? ok.. i’m still stuck in tha 70’s and in high school.

let’s do the time warp ask about using an ice pack or heating pad on your face

on the FACE!!!!! i wish sumbody would tell me tha REAL scoop on how ta handle "restles leg syndrome"… my boyfriend has an appt with a sleep disorder doc on friday, i’m afraid he won’t know shit from shinola. is it a psych issue or a physical issue?

It can be both-If there aren’t meds like ssri’s being used or pajor tranqs (antipsychotics) I see it as a kinetic issue-sometimes the muscles are too fatigued or not worked enough, sometimes it can be a vitamin or nutrional issue, some non psychiatric drugs can make it worse. I think just about everyone has experienced to one degree or another, the psycholigical factor comes into play if it is caused by tension, depression or if one experiences it, how they awfulize it-like a charlie horse or a foot spasm-some people scream in writhing pain, others just shake it off-discomfort thresholds are different for everyone, the trick is trying to get them elevated. Drugs like requip or klonopin and valium, or the more shotgun muscle relaxers can help sometimes, but they have side effects and hazards, so one needs to weigh the risk vrs benefit-sometimes by changing sleep archetecture using a tricyclic at low dose can help get the muscles and the nerves to calm down-in your boyfriends case, you might just be wearing him out i’ve heard both. i’m in oklahoma. i give no credence ta much.  i’d much rather trust tha "ousted from ASAPM" Margrove’s opinion. Margrove?  CAN I MAKE AN APPOINTMENT WITH YOU, PLEASE?  i have really good insurance.

I don’t accept insurance, I let the client pay and they file it and get reimbursed, it’s just cleaner that way, no conflict of interest, capitation etc.. (and would i have ta call ya "margrove"…. or could’ah call ya "DADDY?") only if I sit on your lap shah-reeeeeeeeenks are all touchy bout that stuff, eh?  i’m gonna assume you superceded that crap, Daddy. :X ~t

time to go now aloha

Response:

I believe you mentioned on asapm ( I cannot respond there, moderators or something)

HOUSTON?  WE DEFINITELY HAVE’AH PROBLEM ! drugs are either abortive or prophylactic,

wouldn’t tha latter dictate tha resistence of tha former? ok.. i’m still stuck in tha 70’s and in high school. ask about using an ice pack or heating pad on your face

i wish sumbody would tell me tha REAL scoop on how ta handle "restles leg syndrome"… my boyfriend has an appt with a sleep disorder doc on friday, i’m afraid he won’t know shit from shinola. is it a psych issue or a physical issue? i’ve heard both. i’m in oklahoma. i give no credence ta much.  i’d much rather trust tha "ousted from ASAPM" Margrove’s opinion. Margrove?  CAN I MAKE AN APPOINTMENT WITH YOU, PLEASE?  i have really good insurance. (and would i have ta call ya "margrove"…. or could’ah call ya "DADDY?") shah-reeeeeeeeenks are all touchy bout that stuff, eh?  i’m gonna assume you superceded that crap, Daddy. :X ~t

Response:

Did anyone ever experience bad headaches the first few weeks of taking Wellbutrin XL?  Not a day has gone by without one.  They are resistant to 800 mg. of ibuprophen too.  I even went to my ENT and he gave me antibiotics and pain meds. He wants me to have a CT scan, I had it scheduled then my husband got the flu and since my son totalled my car I had to cancel.  I will try to get it done this Friday, my husband’s day off.  It really doesn’t feel like a sinus headache, and believe me, I know what they are after 20 years of suffering.  I have a past history of migraines and wonder about that.  I did read on the pamphlet the pharmacist gave me with the Wellbutrin that headaches and worsened anxiety can be common side effects but will usually go  away.  I see the Pdoc NP today at 5pm and I will ask her.  Just wondering if anyone here has had this experience or am I just wierd?  Thanks for listening. Vicki

Response:

Did anyone ever experience bad headaches the first few weeks of taking Wellbutrin XL?

that stuff gave me anxiety out tha ying yang.  and made me vomit, hurl, puke’n DIE. WELBUTRIN IS EVIL AND MUST BE DESTROYED ! (it’s also cleverly disguised "zyban"… so if ya wanna smoke, yer screwed.) ~t

Response:

I had horrible headaches for about the first 2-3 weeks on Wellbutrin. I found that if I kept myself hydrated and avoided caffinated products the headaches were much less intense. After a couple of weeks they went away entirely

Response:

Did anyone ever experience bad headaches the first few weeks of taking Wellbutrin XL?  Not a day has gone by without one.

headaches as well as al kinds of side effects can be caused by almost any medication. Wellbutrin is a potent drug that activates some amines that may be responsible to cause migraines in some people, so it is possible this is a possible culprit 800 mg. of ibuprophen too.

migraines rarely respond to ibuprophen when full blown-other drugs work better I believe you mentioned on asapm ( I cannot respond there, moderators or something) your ent administered antibiotics, so he would have reason  to believe you needed them so it may be that his examination indicated you do have a sinus condition that may be an acute infection or some other possible condition like polyps or an obstructed sinus-hence the ct scan-headaches can be caused by all kinds of things, they are a symptoms per se, so allergy, diet, stress, depression or your current meds, hormones, sleep etc all may be contributory. Ask your ent if using a steroid spray may help this along, as well as trying an antihistamine like allegra etc.. Migraine drugs are either abortive or prophylactic, there are many you could try if this is indeed migraine. Migraine is typically pain localized around one eye, you have sensitivity to light, sound and feel nausea, it worsens when you excert yourself or bend your head downward-it may be preceded by an auro of some kind usually visual, sometimes a mood change-and can last for days, or be daily. Sinus headaches can mimic migraine, but the tell is usually congestion and discharge as well as pain focused at the sinus site-facial pain, pain when you press on tissue around any of the sinus cavities-if wellbutrin is kicking them off, it is a roll of the dice if they will go away-weren’t you on wellbutrin before? You could ask your pdoc if you can skip one dose of wellbutrin to see if the pain goes away within 12 hours or so -ask about using an ice pack or heating pad on your face – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -and pain meds. He wants me to have a CT scan, I had it scheduled then my husband got the flu and since my son totalled my car I had to cancel.  I will try to get it done this Friday, my husband’s day off.  It really doesn’t feel like a sinus headache, and believe me, I know what they are after 20 years of suffering.  I have a past history of migraines and wonder about that.  I did read on the pamphlet the pharmacist gave me with the Wellbutrin that headaches and worsened anxiety can be common side effects but will usually go  away.  I see the Pdoc NP today at 5pm and I will ask her.  Just wondering if anyone here has had this experience or am I just wierd?  Thanks for listening. Vicki

Response:

Should I be concerned about Trazadone?

Question:

you should also watch tylenol and alcohol consumption while on this med..

That’s interesting. Didn’t realize that. A couple times this year (my vasectomy and my septoplasty) I’ve had to take Vicodin. Hopefully I’m okay. Preston — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don`t do anything until you express your concerns with your pdoc. While the internet can be a great source for info on meds, it also comes with it`s fair share of "horror" stories. People are more apt to share negative experiences Of course. I was actually just explaining (when someone mentioned their Traz horror story) to someone else that if you need the medicine you need the medicine. So I take it all with a grain of salt, but I had to ask. weaning off trazodone. You don`t really know the whole story. For every "one" horror story, there are hundreds and hundreds of people who stopped taking trazodone with no problems. I`ve been reading the anxiety groups for years now and can`t recall any poster complaining about having a hard time getting off this med. I`m not saying there weren`t any, I just don`t recall it. If it were a common problem we would have heard more about it. That makes me feel a little better. I mean, I take what I have to take. But I like to know also that I’m not in for something far worse (since really we’re talking about correcting my sleep architecture here and dosing down on the Klonopin, not curing depression) than what I’m being treated for, you know. Preston

When using the internet ALWAYS consider the source of the information that you get before believing it. — Ron P Just remember….if the world didn’t suck, we’d all fall off. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

What Dr. M said makes complete sense, as usual.  Also, sleeping and "getting good sleep architecture" are two different things.  Trazodone is unlikely to cause big problems with the architecture issue, and if your doctor is ok with it, I’d stay on the trazodone for several months after getting off the Klonopin.  JMO.  Tapering benzos is "much" more difficult if you drink alcohol (and that’s not just something I read in a book either; very anecdotal comment) and as LM pointed out, alcohol puts work on your liver – so there are two good reasons to leave it alone, even if it is the holiday season.

No issues there. When I was 400+ lbs. and started my weight loss program (at my lowest I lost 170+ lbs.) one of the first things I did was quit alcohol. That and red meat. I didn’t drink much alcohol. Maybe a couple beers a week. But I didn’t want my sleep apnea treatment to be interfered with as I tried to get healthier. So I haven’t drank anything in over 6 years. When I go crazy it’s Root Beer. Preston — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

 any psychoactive med in particular benzos and ssri antidepressants may be difficult but not impossible to stop using. For some people bdz

Of course. I’ve read my share of bad stories about SSRIs and Tricyclics as well, but have generally been able to take the attitude that if I need something I need something. Period. are more difficult and for others ad meds-I have not seen any remarkable difficulty in tapering off traz-the only real caveot is that like its cousin serzone-there can be some liver issues that can occur usually at higher doses-a bi annual liver enzyme blood test is a good idea afaic.

Even at 25mg? I’ve never had that test done. I know I might want to consider it since I also take Prilosec. your docs idea isn’t a bad one as far as reducing using a bdz for sleep-traz is a better med in terms of normalizing sleep archetecture but as mentioned stay on top of liver issues.

Okay. when you are ready to stop it 25mg most likely will not present too much difficulty with the possible exception of an increased or more acute insomnia response until your body gets used to the lack of the drug

My doctor says I can be on it as long as it takes to get my sleep normalized and dose down on the Klonopin a bit (at least the night time dose). So I’ll "stay the course". Preston — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Please don’t rely on a newsgroup person at all, even me!  ::)  I saw where you got this from and it is totally bogus.

I hope and pray you will see that also. much love,

Thanks. Preston — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Don`t do anything until you express your concerns with your pdoc. While the internet can be a great source for info on meds, it also comes with it`s fair share of "horror" stories. People are more apt to share negative experiences

Of course. I was actually just explaining (when someone mentioned their Traz horror story) to someone else that if you need the medicine you need the medicine. So I take it all with a grain of salt, but I had to ask. weaning off trazodone. You don`t really know the whole story. For every "one" horror story, there are hundreds and hundreds of people who stopped taking trazodone with no problems. I`ve been reading the anxiety groups for years now and can`t recall any poster complaining about having a hard time getting off this med. I`m not saying there weren`t any, I just don`t recall it. If it were a common problem we would have heard more about it.

That makes me feel a little better. I mean, I take what I have to take. But I like to know also that I’m not in for something far worse (since really we’re talking about correcting my sleep architecture here and dosing down on the Klonopin, not curing depression) than what I’m being treated for, you know. Preston — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

What Dr. M said makes complete sense, as usual.  Also, sleeping and "getting good sleep architecture" are two different things.  Trazodone is unlikely to cause big problems with the architecture issue, and if your doctor is ok with it, I’d stay on the trazodone for several months after getting off the Klonopin.  JMO.  Tapering benzos is "much" more difficult if you drink alcohol (and that’s not just something I read in a book either; very anecdotal comment) and as LM pointed out, alcohol puts work on your liver – so there are two good reasons to leave it alone, even if it is the holiday season. G

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been cruising along, doing pretty well. Tapering a bit on the Klonopin, the anxiety is doing better. I was talking to someone on a sleep disorder Usenet group about my experience and how if you need Klonopin you need it and in response someone posted this… "Trazadone is a medication to worry about a whole lot more than this other stuff.  Try getting off Trazadone after taking it for a few years! any psychoactive med in particular benzos and ssri antidepressants may be difficult but not impossible to stop using. For some people bdz are more difficult and for others ad meds-I have not seen any remarkable difficulty in tapering off traz-the only real caveot is that like its cousin serzone-there can be some liver issues that can occur usually at higher doses-a bi annual liver enzyme blood test is a good idea afaic. Luckily I was SO DEPRESSED that even though I thought about suicide, I figured that even that wouldn’t help me.  It was that hopeless." What the heck? Should I be concerned about Trazadone? I know all medications should be tapered off slowly. And I’m on 25mg a night and have been for about 6 months. Should I consider getting off of it sooner rather than later, though? The idea with my psychiatrist was to use it to make it easier to dose down on the Klonopin (now at 3mg daily) so eventually my sleep patterns would hopefully improve. Now I’m not sure. Eeek. Help! Preston your docs idea isn’t a bad one as far as reducing using a bdz for sleep-traz is a better med in terms of normalizing sleep archetecture but as mentioned stay on top of liver issues. when you are ready to stop it 25mg most likely will not present too much difficulty with the possible exception of an increased or more acute insomnia response until your body gets used to the lack of the drug — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

<gently snipped ::What the heck? Should I be concerned about Trazadone? I know all ::medications should be tapered off slowly. And I’m on 25mg a night and ::have been for about 6 months. Should I consider getting off of it sooner ::rather than later, though? The idea with my psychiatrist was to use it ::to make it easier to dose down on the Klonopin (now at 3mg daily) so ::eventually my sleep patterns would hopefully improve. Now I’m not sure. ::Eeek. Dear Preston, Don`t do anything until you express your concerns with your pdoc. While the internet can be a great source for info on meds, it also comes with it`s fair share of "horror" stories. People are more apt to share negative experiences with a med…. than a positive one. There could be other issues regarding that person that he didn`t share…. but played a role in his difficulties with weaning off trazodone. You don`t really know the whole story. For every "one" horror story, there are hundreds and hundreds of people who stopped taking trazodone with no problems. I`ve been reading the anxiety groups for years now and can`t recall any poster complaining about having a hard time getting off this med. I`m not saying there weren`t any, I just don`t recall it. If it were a common problem we would have heard more about it. Jackie ~*~Moving at the speed of life, we are bound to collide with each other~*~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been cruising along, doing pretty well. Tapering a bit on the Klonopin, the anxiety is doing better. I was talking to someone on a sleep disorder Usenet group about my experience and how if you need Klonopin you need it and in response someone posted this… "Trazadone is a medication to worry about a whole lot more than this other stuff.  Try getting off Trazadone after taking it for a few years! any psychoactive med in particular benzos and ssri antidepressants may be difficult but not impossible to stop using. For some people bdz are more difficult and for others ad meds-I have not seen any remarkable difficulty in tapering off traz-the only real caveot is that like its cousin serzone-

meant to say nefazadone you should also watch tylenol and alcohol consumption while on this med.. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I’ve been cruising along, doing pretty well. Tapering a bit on the Klonopin, the anxiety is doing better. I was talking to someone on a sleep disorder Usenet group about my experience and how if you need Klonopin you need it and in response someone posted this… "Trazadone is a medication to worry about a whole lot more than this other stuff.  Try getting off Trazadone after taking it for a few years!

 any psychoactive med in particular benzos and ssri antidepressants may be difficult but not impossible to stop using. For some people bdz are more difficult and for others ad meds-I have not seen any remarkable difficulty in tapering off traz-the only real caveot is that like its cousin serzone-there can be some liver issues that can occur usually at higher doses-a bi annual liver enzyme blood test is a good idea afaic. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Luckily I was SO DEPRESSED that even though I thought about suicide, I figured that even that wouldn’t help me.  It was that hopeless." What the heck? Should I be concerned about Trazadone? I know all medications should be tapered off slowly. And I’m on 25mg a night and have been for about 6 months. Should I consider getting off of it sooner rather than later, though? The idea with my psychiatrist was to use it to make it easier to dose down on the Klonopin (now at 3mg daily) so eventually my sleep patterns would hopefully improve. Now I’m not sure. Eeek. Help! Preston

your docs idea isn’t a bad one as far as reducing using a bdz for sleep-traz is a better med in terms of normalizing sleep archetecture but as mentioned stay on top of liver issues. when you are ready to stop it 25mg most likely will not present too much difficulty with the possible exception of an increased or more acute insomnia response until your body gets used to the lack of the drug — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been cruising along, doing pretty well. Tapering a bit on the Klonopin, the anxiety is doing better. I was talking to someone on a sleep disorder Usenet group about my experience and how if you need Klonopin you need it and in response someone posted this… "Trazadone is a medication to worry about a whole lot more than this other stuff.  Try getting off Trazadone after taking it for a few years! Luckily I was SO DEPRESSED that even though I thought about suicide, I figured that even that wouldn’t help me.  It was that hopeless." What the heck? Should I be concerned about Trazadone? I know all medications should be tapered off slowly. And I’m on 25mg a night and have been for about 6 months. Should I consider getting off of it sooner rather than later, though? The idea with my psychiatrist was to use it to make it easier to dose down on the Klonopin (now at 3mg daily) so eventually my sleep patterns would hopefully improve. Now I’m not sure. Eeek. Help! Preston

Preston, I took traxodone with no problems except it stopped working for me. I took it for several years.  YMWV but I am concerned about someone who would  tell you all of what you said.  I am sure it’s not a doctor. Please see a med doc and discuss this with him/her. Please don’t rely on a newsgroup person at all, even me!  ::)  I saw where you got this from and it is totally bogus. I hope and pray you will see that also. much love, Me — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I’ve been cruising along, doing pretty well. Tapering a bit on the Klonopin, the anxiety is doing better. I was talking to someone on a sleep disorder Usenet group about my experience and how if you need Klonopin you need it and in response someone posted this… "Trazadone is a medication to worry about a whole lot more than this other stuff.  Try getting off Trazadone after taking it for a few years! Luckily I was SO DEPRESSED that even though I thought about suicide, I figured that even that wouldn’t help me.  It was that hopeless." What the heck? Should I be concerned about Trazadone? I know all medications should be tapered off slowly. And I’m on 25mg a night and have been for about 6 months. Should I consider getting off of it sooner rather than later, though? The idea with my psychiatrist was to use it to make it easier to dose down on the Klonopin (now at 3mg daily) so eventually my sleep patterns would hopefully improve. Now I’m not sure. Eeek. Help! Preston — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Benzo Contract

Question:

I was told the contract is to ensure that a new doctor would continue to prescribe them

Sounds like a good idea.  I will approach my pdoc about this idea at our next visit. Dot — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Is that contract to prevent you from abusing benzos, or to ensure that a new doctor will continue to prescribe them? My doctor is talking about retiring, and she has had me on Ativan every day for 27 years (though I now take a very tiny dose).  I’m worried that when a new doctor discovers this he/she will freak out and take me off them. Dot

I was told the contract is to ensure that a new doctor would continue to prescribe them; I also suspect there is probably a professional "CYA" aspect to the contract. I have no history of abuse. In fact, I am pretty miserly with these things because I don’t want to a) run out too early in the month, b)build a tolerance, and/or c) get into the habit of using them in lieu of deep breathing and other techniques that can sometimes knock the starch out of an incipient panic attack. Someone else asked about Klonopin as a sleep aid. I do take it most nights and it seems to be working just fine; my difficulty in falling asleep is so related to anxious thoughts that I find it hard to unravel the hypnotic aspect from the antianxiety effect in determining how is is  working. I also take Benedryl but if I take a full 25 mg pill of that, then I am drowsy the next day so I take half of those. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Is that contract to prevent you from abusing benzos, or to ensure that a new doctor will continue to prescribe them? My doctor is talking about retiring, and she has had me on Ativan every day for 27 years (though I now take a very tiny dose).  I’m worried that when a new doctor discovers this he/she will freak out and take me off them.

Can you get your doctor to refer you to a new physician or is a new physician taking over the practice upon his retirement? — Ron P Home Page:  http://fp.kwic.com/~rwebb Just remember….if the world didn’t suck, we’d all fall off. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Is that contract to prevent you from abusing benzos, or to ensure that a new doctor will continue to prescribe them? My doctor is talking about retiring, and she has had me on Ativan every day for 27 years (though I now take a very tiny dose).  I’m worried that when a new doctor discovers this he/she will freak out and take me off them. Dot — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

The contract seems a little gimmicky, but at least your doctor is weighing risks & benefits with you — mine just give me misinformation and leave it at that . . . As a side note, I’m interested to hear how that klonopin works for you as a sleep aid.  For me, the hypnotic effect of every benzo I’ve tried went away pretty quickly, leaving just the desired anti-anxiety effect behind.  Glad you’re getting good results. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have a great doctor who has helped stabilize my GAD and panic attacks which also have come packaged with a convenient (not!) vicious sleep disorder. Basically, I am taking Paxil for the GAD and we have casted about for medicines for the sleep situation (trying Ambien and Sonata most notably with either little effect or intolerable side effects) and panic attacks, finally settling on Clonazepam to help sleep and Ativan for the panic attacks. This all seems to be working pretty good. During our last appointment, she mentioned that idea of a "contract" that I might sign and have placed in my file due to what will be an apparently long term therapy with benzos. Does anyone else here have familiarity with such a contract or ramifications of it? My doctor seemed to think it was a good idea in case she left the practice or I moved; the contract would be in my file, thus making it easier for me to continue this therapy with another physician. Thanks for any advice or perspective. Gary K.

My regular doc put me on Ativan on an as needed basis.  I took it once in awhile, but when the you-know-what hit the fan, and I really needed some help, I went to a pdoc who put me on a regular dose of Ativan and an SSRI as well.  He never had me sign a contract regarding any drugs I’ve been on, but because so many docs are benzo phobic, the right kind of contract might be a good idea. We merely talked about the pros and cons of the meds, and he assured me he could get me off either med with few problems. What annoys me is that many docs will not prescribe benzos, which work so well for so many people, yet hand out SSRI’s like candy, claiming they are not "addictive."  Then you read about all the people trying to get off SSRI’s and there doesn’t seem to be much difference, except that benzos do offer the opportunity for abuse.  That said, few people who suffer from GAD abuse benzos. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

shooting form the hip, i’d kinda agree with Jackie. "we" tend not to abuse these drugs. docs are having tighter and more strict regulations for Rx’ing these drugs. glad you are getting what you need as far as meds and more importantly results! Lobo — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

<Gently snipped ::During our last appointment, she mentioned that idea of a "contract" ::that I might sign and have placed in my file due to what will be an ::apparently long term therapy with benzos. Does anyone else here have ::familiarity with such a contract or ramifications of it? :: ::My doctor seemed to think it was a good idea in case she left the ::practice or I moved; the contract would be in my file, thus making it ::easier for me to continue this therapy with another physician. :: ::Thanks for any advice or perspective. Dear Gary, Very interesting and thanks for sharing this with us!! I decided to go to Google to see what I could find. I found this and quoted a small snippet. I encourage you read the entire article at the link provided. While the snippet mentions narcotics, the article does refer to psycotropic meds as well. ~*~How can we as physicians protect our patients and ourselves against this problem? One way is to make each patient receiving long term narcotics for any reason sign a contract that delineates their privileges and warns them that the detection of abuse, or abuse patterns of behavior will cause the cessation of prescriptions for their narcotic drugs. In addition, the use of the following questionnaire will help identify patients at risk of drug abuse~*~ http://www.jsonline.com/alive/column/oct99/howards100799.asp Maybe I am being paranoid but I suggest you show the contract to another doctor or even lawyer for advice before signing it. I`m not so sure this all about protecting you and ensuring continued benzo treatment should this doctor decide to move or leave. I could be completely wrong though Keep us updated!! Jackie ~*~Life was so much easier when your clothes didn’t match and boys had cooties~*~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I have a great doctor who has helped stabilize my GAD and panic attacks which also have come packaged with a convenient (not!) vicious sleep disorder. Basically, I am taking Paxil for the GAD and we have casted about for medicines for the sleep situation (trying Ambien and Sonata most notably with either little effect or intolerable side effects) and panic attacks, finally settling on Clonazepam to help sleep and Ativan for the panic attacks. This all seems to be working pretty good. During our last appointment, she mentioned that idea of a "contract" that I might sign and have placed in my file due to what will be an apparently long term therapy with benzos. Does anyone else here have familiarity with such a contract or ramifications of it? My doctor seemed to think it was a good idea in case she left the practice or I moved; the contract would be in my file, thus making it easier for me to continue this therapy with another physician. Thanks for any advice or perspective. Gary K. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

videotape, any advice?

Question:

> Hi tal, I know I can’t get diagnosed by people of the newsgroup, but it > seems that I’ll not see my doctor in months, due to long time for the test > and for talking with him(I waited one month). I just asked for a pure > opinion, can I send it to you? It’s just one minute long.

i don’t need to see it, the description alone is enough for ME to say i THINK it sounds like apnea –  but as I said, i’m not a medical professional. Talk to your sleep doc/clinic about  getting on a cancellation list, it’s amazing how much quicker you can get in when other people cancel their appointments. — Beth in Australia ————————– Unless stated otherwise, anything I say here is my opinion only – I am not a medically trained professional FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://talhost.net/sleep Newsgroup Archives http://talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles

Response:

On Mon, 9 May 2005 20:50:11 +1000, "Tal" <goer…@hotmail.com> wrote: >> Hi tal, I know I can’t get diagnosed by people of the newsgroup, but it >> seems that I’ll not see my doctor in months, due to long time for the test >> and for talking with him(I waited one month). I just asked for a pure >> opinion, can I send it to you? It’s just one minute long. >i don’t need to see it, the description alone is enough for ME to say i >THINK it sounds like apnea –  but as I said, i’m not a medical professional. >Talk to your sleep doc/clinic about  getting on a cancellation list, it’s >amazing how much quicker you can get in when other people cancel their >appointments.

sounds like someone wants to send virus or porn..

Response:

I did wonder about that….. either way, I dont’ need to see the video! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> sounds like someone wants to send virus or porn..

Response:

Tal ha scritto: > I did wonder about that….. either way, I dont’ need to see the video! >>sounds like someone wants to send virus or porn..

thank you for the credit.. Anyway it was an avi, so can’t be a virus, maibe just porn, and that would be more pleasant than seeing me snoring.

Response:

> thank you for the credit.. > Anyway it was an avi, so can’t be a virus, maibe just porn, and that would > be more pleasant than seeing me snoring.

As i’m sure you’re aware, there’s plenty of that kind of behavior online, you shoudln’t really be surpised that a complete stranger wouldn’t jump to immediately trust you considering…. either way, as I said, it sounds to me like you have apnea but you need to see your doctor, I can’t do any more than that whether i see the video or not — Beth in Australia ————————– Unless stated otherwise, anything I say here is my opinion only – I am not a medically trained professional FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://talhost.net/sleep Newsgroup Archives http://talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles

Response:

Tal ha scritto: >>thank you for the credit.. >>Anyway it was an avi, so can’t be a virus, maibe just porn, and that would >>be more pleasant than seeing me snoring. > As i’m sure you’re aware, there’s plenty of that kind of behavior online, > you shoudln’t really be surpised that a complete stranger wouldn’t jump to > immediately trust you considering….

I totally agree with you, I was only kidding! Thank you very much for your advices!!! Nicola.

Response:

While I’m waiting for the test (3 weeks till now) I’ve been lurking in the newsgroup, and read that some of you videotaped your sleep. I recorded my sleep, and I’m just viewing it, there’s an episode where I was snoring then there’s a silence, then a single fast snore, and then I open my eyes and change my position. I would like to share the video (this short part) with someone that can give me an opinion if that could be an apnea.

Response:

> While I’m waiting for the test (3 weeks till now) I’ve been lurking in the > newsgroup, and read that some of you videotaped your sleep. > I recorded my sleep, and I’m just viewing it, there’s an episode where I > was snoring then there’s a silence, then a single fast snore, and then I > open my eyes and change my position. I would like to share the video (this > short part) with someone that can give me an opinion if that could be an > apnea.

take it with you when you next see your doctor – most of the people here have no qualifications and we aren’t able to diagnose you. What you describe certainly sounds like sleep apnea, but you need to talk to your doctor about it — Beth in Australia ————————– Unless stated otherwise, anything I say here is my opinion only – I am not a medically trained professional FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://talhost.net/sleep Newsgroup Archives http://talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles

Response:

Tal ha scritto: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>While I’m waiting for the test (3 weeks till now) I’ve been lurking in the >>newsgroup, and read that some of you videotaped your sleep. >>I recorded my sleep, and I’m just viewing it, there’s an episode where I >>was snoring then there’s a silence, then a single fast snore, and then I >>open my eyes and change my position. I would like to share the video (this >>short part) with someone that can give me an opinion if that could be an >>apnea. > take it with you when you next see your doctor – most of the people here > have no qualifications and we aren’t able to diagnose you. > What you describe certainly sounds like sleep apnea, but you need to talk to > your doctor about it

Hi tal, I know I can’t get diagnosed by people of the newsgroup, but it seems that I’ll not see my doctor in months, due to long time for the test and for talking with him(I waited one month). I just asked for a pure opinion, can I send it to you? It’s just one minute long. Thank you Nicola.

Response:

Gabitril??

Question:

something wonderfully witty: Any of you ever tried, or use Gabitril? I have been on it for a little over a week now. I take it at bedtime. Since starting I have been having strange dreams, and waking up a few times per night. Also, it seems that my headaches have changed from one-sided to generally all over (feels more like rebound pain). Plus, I feel like crap when I get up in the mornings. Would like to add that I started taking Norco (10Mg Hydrocodone) at about the same time, but I have taken that before, and don’t remember having these problems. I have even tried taking it earlier in the evening….. with no luck!?!? Any ideas, suggestions? TIA, Kev

Yup it is one of the bullets in the gun.  It is more for anxiety then anything else in my particular case.  Supposed to not be "addictive" like valium or Xannax.

Response:

I took Gabitril, a relative of Neurontin (Gabapentin), for one month.  I became semi suicidal and was told to immediately stop taking it.  When I stopped, all the anxiety and bad thoughts went away.  Gabitril is an anti seizure med in the same class as Zonegran, Topamax, Depakote, and Neurontin.  Anti seizure meds are used "off label" more than 80% of the time, making drug companies millions of dollars.  After trying me on all of these meds over a years time, my neurologist decided to have me take a sleep study.  Turns out, I have a sleep disorder that he thinks is causing my migraines. Now I’ve been through all of the sleep aids, Ambien, Halcion, Restoril, Lunesta, and most recently trying Seroquel, an anti psychotic that is being used off label for insomnia, and for which my insurance company won’t pay.  One months worth costs $135. I will take it for a month, and if my migraines decrease, I might pursue getting a psych doctor to write my Rx so the damn insurance company will cover the med.  I know that involves getting labeled and may have possible consequences in the future.  So I will not do this lightly. Karen in San Diego – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any of you ever tried, or use Gabitril? I have been on it for a little over a week now. I take it at bedtime. Since starting I have been having strange dreams, and waking up a few times per night. Also, it seems that my headaches have changed from one-sided to generally all over (feels more like rebound pain). Plus, I feel like crap when I get up in the mornings. Would like to add that I started taking Norco (10Mg Hydrocodone) at about the same time, but I have taken that before, and don’t remember having these problems. I have even tried taking it earlier in the evening….. with no luck!?!? Any ideas, suggestions? TIA, Kev

Response:

I took Gabitril, but never noticed anything…and I’m pretty sensitive, but then again, it didn’t do anyting for my migraines either.  I stopped taking it. I’m back on Zonegran and now on 300 mg a day.   It helps me sleep, but not noticing any effect on my migraines though. Michelle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any of you ever tried, or use Gabitril? I have been on it for a little over a week now. I take it at bedtime. Since starting I have been having strange dreams, and waking up a few times per night. Also, it seems that my headaches have changed from one-sided to generally all over (feels more like rebound pain). Plus, I feel like crap when I get up in the mornings. Would like to add that I started taking Norco (10Mg Hydrocodone) at about the same time, but I have taken that before, and don’t remember having these problems. I have even tried taking it earlier in the evening….. with no luck!?!? Any ideas, suggestions? TIA, Kev

Response:

Any of you ever tried, or use Gabitril? I have been on it for a little over a week now. I take it at bedtime. Since starting I have been having strange dreams, and waking up a few times per night. Also, it seems that my headaches have changed from one-sided to generally all over (feels more like rebound pain). Plus, I feel like crap when I get up in the mornings. Would like to add that I started taking Norco (10Mg Hydrocodone) at about the same time, but I have taken that before, and don’t remember having these problems. I have even tried taking it earlier in the evening….. with no luck!?!? Any ideas, suggestions? TIA, Kev

Response:

I do know of some people that were prescribed Topamax as an aid for weight loss, just because it is a common side effect of the drug.  These people are don’t have seizures or migraine, just need to loose weight. Karen in San Diego – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I took Gabitril, a relative of Neurontin (Gabapentin), for one month.  I became semi suicidal and was told to immediately stop taking it.  When I stopped, all the anxiety and bad thoughts went away.  Gabitril is an anti seizure med in the same class as Zonegran, Topamax, Depakote, and Neurontin.  Anti seizure meds are used "off label" more than 80% of the time, making drug companies millions of dollars.  After trying me on all of these meds over a years time, my neurologist decided to have me take a sleep study.  Turns out, I have a sleep disorder that he thinks is causing my migraines. Just as a side note, while I know many drugs, especially the anti-seizures are indeed used off label often, Topamax is *not* off label as a migraine preventative anymore.  FDA has officially approved it as on label use.  This is not to comment about its effectiveness. It is working for me, others have had no luck and bad side effects. The old YMMV.  But, it is not off label for migraine prevention. Still, I had to have it *pre-certified* by the doctor for the insurance before the pharmacy could fill at the insurance rate. I learned this, of course, when I went to have it filled.   Wouldn’t you think the doc writing the script is pre-cert enough?  I had to pay the full price, the pharmacy kindly did all the phoning of the doc and insurance and took care of the "paperwork", then reimbursed me when I went in for the refill (I could have gone in for the reimbursement as soon as they got it certified, 3 days later, but I just waited)  How the heck is a doctor supposed to keep track of which drugs for which insurance plans, regular vs HMO’s etc. need pre-certification?  I looked through everything I had, no list of any drugs requiring pre-cert.  Seems stupid to me.  Either they cover it or they don’t. Apparently not.  I also had the option of waiting for the pre-certification to go through before starting the medication. However, since migraines were fully in control of my life by that time, I was prepared to pay the full price of the medication to try it anyway I went ahead.  At least my CVS was nice enough not to push it back on me to get it all done, like the nearby W*Gr**n’s would have done.  Chalk one up for going to the same pharmacy and same pharmacist for the last 20+ years. Nat Now I’ve been through all of the sleep aids, Ambien, Halcion, Restoril, Lunesta, and most recently trying Seroquel, an anti psychotic that is being used off label for insomnia, and for which my insurance company won’t pay.  One months worth costs $135. I will take it for a month, and if my migraines decrease, I might pursue getting a psych doctor to write my Rx so the damn insurance company will cover the med.  I know that involves getting labeled and may have possible consequences in the future.  So I will not do this lightly. Karen in San Diego Any of you ever tried, or use Gabitril? I have been on it for a little over a week now. I take it at bedtime. Since starting I have been having strange dreams, and waking up a few times per night. Also, it seems that my headaches have changed from one-sided to generally all over (feels more like rebound pain). Plus, I feel like crap when I get up in the mornings. Would like to add that I started taking Norco (10Mg Hydrocodone) at about the same time, but I have taken that before, and don’t remember having these problems. I have even tried taking it earlier in the evening….. with no luck!?!? Any ideas, suggestions? TIA, Kev

Response:

Oh dear…the side effects were so bad, I cannot even imagine. Michelle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I do know of some people that were prescribed Topamax as an aid for weight loss, just because it is a common side effect of the drug.  These people are don’t have seizures or migraine, just need to loose weight. Karen in San Diego I took Gabitril, a relative of Neurontin (Gabapentin), for one month.  I became semi suicidal and was told to immediately stop taking it.  When I stopped, all the anxiety and bad thoughts went away.  Gabitril is an anti seizure med in the same class as Zonegran, Topamax, Depakote, and Neurontin.  Anti seizure meds are used "off label" more than 80% of the time, making drug companies millions of dollars.  After trying me on all of these meds over a years time, my neurologist decided to have me take a sleep study.  Turns out, I have a sleep disorder that he thinks is causing my migraines. Just as a side note, while I know many drugs, especially the anti-seizures are indeed used off label often, Topamax is *not* off label as a migraine preventative anymore.  FDA has officially approved it as on label use.  This is not to comment about its effectiveness. It is working for me, others have had no luck and bad side effects. The old YMMV.  But, it is not off label for migraine prevention. Still, I had to have it *pre-certified* by the doctor for the insurance before the pharmacy could fill at the insurance rate. I learned this, of course, when I went to have it filled.   Wouldn’t you think the doc writing the script is pre-cert enough?  I had to pay the full price, the pharmacy kindly did all the phoning of the doc and insurance and took care of the "paperwork", then reimbursed me when I went in for the refill (I could have gone in for the reimbursement as soon as they got it certified, 3 days later, but I just waited)  How the heck is a doctor supposed to keep track of which drugs for which insurance plans, regular vs HMO’s etc. need pre-certification?  I looked through everything I had, no list of any drugs requiring pre-cert.  Seems stupid to me.  Either they cover it or they don’t. Apparently not.  I also had the option of waiting for the pre-certification to go through before starting the medication. However, since migraines were fully in control of my life by that time, I was prepared to pay the full price of the medication to try it anyway I went ahead.  At least my CVS was nice enough not to push it back on me to get it all done, like the nearby W*Gr**n’s would have done.  Chalk one up for going to the same pharmacy and same pharmacist for the last 20+ years. Nat Now I’ve been through all of the sleep aids, Ambien, Halcion, Restoril, Lunesta, and most recently trying Seroquel, an anti psychotic that is being used off label for insomnia, and for which my insurance company won’t pay.  One months worth costs $135. I will take it for a month, and if my migraines decrease, I might pursue getting a psych doctor to write my Rx so the damn insurance company will cover the med.  I know that involves getting labeled and may have possible consequences in the future.  So I will not do this lightly. Karen in San Diego Any of you ever tried, or use Gabitril? I have been on it for a little over a week now. I take it at bedtime. Since starting I have been having strange dreams, and waking up a few times per night. Also, it seems that my headaches have changed from one-sided to generally all over (feels more like rebound pain). Plus, I feel like crap when I get up in the mornings. Would like to add that I started taking Norco (10Mg Hydrocodone) at about the same time, but I have taken that before, and don’t remember having these problems. I have even tried taking it earlier in the evening….. with no luck!?!? Any ideas, suggestions? TIA, Kev

Response:

New CPAP User Here With A Question

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Bill Benzel wrote: > Thanks to all who responded — I went several nights with no recurrence — > last night this happened — I awakened briefly, noted I was slepping on my > side and my mouth was open.  I knew exactly what had happened, it didn’t > bother me at all and I was able to just go right back to sleep. > Next question: > I’ve been at this for three weeks now.  One thing I notice is that I am no > longer rebembering dreams. > Is this because I am remaining in REM state rather than waking from it? > Do those of you who sleep really well also remember dreams? > Any lucid dreamers using CPAP??

Although I am not a professional, perhaps Dr. Voodoo, who is, will comment. My understanding is: that dreaming is a normal, necessary state; that dreams are only recalled if awakened during, or shortly after they occur.  Since OSA causes awakenings (that we are not nesessarily aware of), OSA causes many dreams to be recalled (and to feel like crap the next day). I consider my treatment to be optimum, if I don’t recall any dreams and feel great the next day.  Do I recall ANY dreams?   Yes once-in-a-while.  Do I find a connection between recalling a dream and feeling like crap?  NO! HTH

Response:

nos…@netaxs.com (Bill Benzel) wrote: >I’ve been at this for three weeks now.  One thing I notice is that I am no >longer rebembering dreams.

That’s probably because you’re no longer being awakened by apneic events during deep sleep, where most dreaming happens. FWIW, the opposite often happens to new CPAP users, they suddenly experience vivid, and sometimes disturbing dreams after going on CPAP. These usually go away when they get used to dreaming again. Tom

Response:

Does anyone have experience with the Snapp Nasal System. It seems so easy to use and comfortable. My pressure it at 6 so with my Remstar Pro you can start it a 4 until you fall  asleep. I also have a comfort classic that I used at the sleep study. I can back and forth if I want to. I am new to this and just got my stuff.  Thanks in advance for any help. Jim W.

Response:

On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 17:04:01 -0500, Alan Moor…@visi.com pulled up to the drive-thru window and hollered: My experience has been that if my mouth opens, the air from the CPAP rushing out of my mouth starts a siphoning/venturi effect on my lungs, pulling air OUT of them and making breathing harder. Ed – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Don’t think it matters, though, except for the discomfort of dry mouth. >If the air from you CPAP can get through that blockage at the back of your >mouth so it can exit through your mouth, I think it has done its job, and >you can breathe OK.     >That’s according to the diagram of nasal/oral passages at the doctor’s >office, anyway. >Alan Moorman >=========================================

Response:

Thanks to all who responded — I went several nights with no recurrence — last night this happened — I awakened briefly, noted I was slepping on my side and my mouth was open.  I knew exactly what had happened, it didn’t bother me at all and I was able to just go right back to sleep. Next question: I’ve been at this for three weeks now.  One thing I notice is that I am no longer rebembering dreams. Is this because I am remaining in REM state rather than waking from it? Do those of you who sleep really well also remember dreams? Any lucid dreamers using CPAP?? — Bill                 AT        DOT reply to bbenzel  adelphia   net

Response:

Bill Benzel wrote: > DocVoodoo (Sa…@CPAP-Shack.com) wrote: > : When you go into REM you loose muscle tone. When you do your mouth is > : dropping open it

Somniloquy Help!!

Question:

Have I checked her meds?  Yes.  

Response:

>I have to stay with my grandmother at nights.  She will be 98 in July. > In the last year,  she has started sleeping a lot in the day sleeping > all night and talking in her sleep.  She talks all night.  ALL NIGHT. If > she sleeps in the day,  she is talking also.  Clear and loud. Soft and > mumbled.  Her physical health is good and her mind is great.  It is > usually conversations with someone else she doesn’t remember when she > awakes. > I spoke to her doctor about it and she said "buy earplugs".    I can not > sleep at night for her and the earplugs do not help nor does going into > other rooms of the house. > She is wearing me out .  Herself too. > Her meds are: Torsemide, Propranolol, Isosorbide, Diovan, Coumadin and > Lexapro.

have you tried searching online to see if this is a known side effect of one of these meds? — Beth in Australia ————————– Unless stated otherwise, anything I say here is my opinion only – I am not a medically trained professional FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://talhost.net/sleep Newsgroup Archives http://talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

Response:

I have to stay with my grandmother at nights.  She will be 98 in July. In the last year,  she has started sleeping a lot in the day sleeping all night and talking in her sleep.  She talks all night.  ALL NIGHT. If she sleeps in the day,  she is talking also.  Clear and loud. Soft and mumbled.  Her physical health is good and her mind is great.  It is usually conversations with someone else she doesn’t remember when she awakes. I spoke to her doctor about it and she said "buy earplugs".    I can not sleep at night for her and the earplugs do not help nor does going into other rooms of the house. She is wearing me out .  Herself too. Her meds are: Torsemide, Propranolol, Isosorbide, Diovan, Coumadin and Lexapro. Anyone have any suggestions? 10k

Response:

side affects of steroidal nasal sprays

Question:

I’ve been using Nasocort for 8 weeks.  The only side affect I’ve noticed is very oily skin.  Has anyone else noticed that as well?

Response:

 I’ve been using Nasocort for 8 weeks.  The only side affect I’ve noticed is > very oily skin.  Has anyone else noticed that as well?

I never noticed any side effects with Rhinocort I can see how oily skin could potentially be a side effect of steroid use, however I wouldn’t think the dosage in a nasal spray would be enough to cause that? — Beth in Australia ————————– Unless stated otherwise, anything I say here is my opinion only – I am not a medically trained professional FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://talhost.net/sleep Newsgroup Archives http://talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

Response:

I also use it. Now about 5 days. Has it worked for you?  Thanks "Ivan" <mr_jerky_ma…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:11640u8pq6ajr8d@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ve been using Nasocort for 8 weeks.  The only side affect I’ve noticed > is very oily skin.  Has anyone else noticed that as well?

Response:

"Ivan" <mr_jerky_ma…@hotmail.com ha! after noticing your email addy, I KNOW it’s you *waves* how’s that, just a couple of posts and I recognised you LOL — Beth in Australia ————————– Unless stated otherwise, anything I say here is my opinion only – I am not a medically trained professional FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://talhost.net/sleep Newsgroup Archives http://talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

Response:

Hi Tal, I thought you always DID know it was me. ) Nice to talk to you.  *waves back* "Tal" <goer…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:4262a736$1@news.usenetzone.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Ivan" <mr_jerky_ma…@hotmail.com > ha! after noticing your email addy, I KNOW it’s you *waves* > how’s that, just a couple of posts and I recognised you LOL > — > Beth in Australia > ————————– > Unless stated otherwise, anything I say here is my opinion only – I am not > a medically trained professional > FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here > http://talhost.net/sleep > Newsgroup Archives http://talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm > this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles > _________________________________________ > Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server > More than 120,000 groups > Unlimited download > http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

Response:

Hi Bob Calvin, It works, but not as well as I thought it might.  My doctor said there were others to try if this one didn’t work.  When this prescription runs out I think I’ll try one of the others.  It took at least 5 days before I noticed much of a difference.  Keep me posted how it works out for you. "Bob Colvin" <hr…@comcast.net> wrote in message

news:B7idnZaxhrRFAf_fRVn-oQ@comcast.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I also use it. Now about 5 days. Has it worked for you? > Thanks > "Ivan" <mr_jerky_ma…@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:11640u8pq6ajr8d@corp.supernews.com… >> I’ve been using Nasocort for 8 weeks.  The only side affect I’ve noticed >> is very oily skin.  Has anyone else noticed that as well?

Response:

> It works, but not as well as I thought it might.  My doctor said there > were others to try if this one didn’t work.  When this prescription runs > out I think I’ll try one of the others.  It took at least 5 days before I > noticed much of a difference.  Keep me posted how it works out for you.

it will usually take a few days to start noticing improvment – it needs to build up in your system first, your doc or supplier should have probably told you this so you didnt’ get discouraged in the first few days — Beth in Australia ————————– Unless stated otherwise, anything I say here is my opinion only – I am not a medically trained professional FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://talhost.net/sleep Newsgroup Archives http://talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

Response:

Too tired to take first dexedrine dosage

Question:

This is a weird problem. One of the effects of missing your dose of dexedrine is EXTREME TIREDNESS (and depression). Does anyone find their early morning dose really hard to take – I have to literally keep the pill next to my pillow otherwise I’m too tired to take it..lol

Response:

: This is a weird problem. One of the effects of missing your dose of : dexedrine is EXTREME TIREDNESS (and depression). : Does anyone find their early morning dose really hard to take – I have : to literally keep the pill next to my pillow otherwise I’m too tired to : take it..lol I will bet you $50 that you have a sleep disorder (some of us have a few of them). Ask your Family Doctor to send you for a Sleep Study ("Polysomnography"). Emma

Response:

really sick of this

Question:

Tom Devlin wrote:

: That’s awfully surprising, and very disappointing. I’ve heard : absolutely nothing but praise for Swedish, I’d make sure that your : sleep doctor knows that there’s a problem. yeah, the center itself has been great. the attached dme has been okay, except for freaking me out about the o2 and the second guy warning me off the ng. the doctors and respiratory techs at the sleep institute were amazingly cool and professional. : Was the window open?  You may need another layer of insulation. I’ve : also wrapped my (quilt batting covered) hoses with Saran Wrap to keep : breezes from blowing through the batting. closed, but thin and we keep the heat down at night. i’ve found an old dead floor lamp that seems to work better. some condensation, but not much. i’m ordering a hose cozy so that should resolve that. : Don’t worry about it. Really, we understand. : Just keep plugging… i’m still having a hard time getting a seal with the damned mask. would saline gel or something help with that? it takes me several tries and a lot of tweaking to get a seal, and even then pushing on it at all makes it leak. i am getting 6 or 7 hours a night on it, and sometimes more. i had seven and a half on it last night, but now i have a horrible headache and i fell asleep getting ready for work again. — deb who considered decapitation to get rid of this headache, but decided the side effects weren’t tolerable.

Response:

in article 1110319061.226025@yasure, sine nomine at ll…@drizzle.com wrote on 3/8/05 2:57 PM: > i’m still having a hard time getting a seal with the damned > mask. would saline gel or something help with that? it takes me > several tries and a lot of tweaking to get a seal, and even then > pushing on it at all makes it leak.

I like Ayr saline gel for my damned nasal pillows and see no reason why it wouldn’t help your damned mask. I have had times when I had a panic like reaction to my CPAP treatment. I borrowed from my ancient natural childbirth training and concentrated on my breathing. All right, count slowly to three while inhaling, one, two, three, ok that worked. Now slowly count to three while exhaling, etc. For me it seemed to get the air and the breathing somehow resolved and aligned, if that makes any sense. The children are now in their 30’s. I’ve also used this while having my teeth cleaned. Good luck. Anna

Response:

sine nomine <ll…@drizzle.com> wrote: >: That’s awfully surprising, and very disappointing. I’ve heard >: absolutely nothing but praise for Swedish, I’d make sure that your >: sleep doctor knows that there’s a problem. >yeah, the center itself has been great. the attached dme has been >okay, except for freaking me out about the o2

He may have been trying to frighten you into compliance. It probably works for some people. > and the second guy warning me off the ng.

I’d really like to know which group(s) he had in mind. >: Was the window open?  You may need another layer of insulation. I’ve >closed, but thin and we keep the heat down at night. i’ve found an old >dead floor lamp that seems to work better. some condensation, but not >much. i’m ordering a hose cozy so that should resolve that.

Great!   >i’m still having a hard time getting a seal with the damned >mask. would saline gel or something help with that?

The saline gel works well with nasal pillows, I’m not sure how it would work with a conventional mask. Please let us know if you try it. >i am getting 6 or 7 hours a night on it, and sometimes more. i had >seven and a half on it last night, but now i have a horrible headache

Even "normal" people get an occasional headache… >and i fell asleep getting ready for work again.

Not good. I’d really (once again) suggest an earlier bedtime. Tom

Response:

eric pearson wrote:

: I diagrammed the sentence in question. You probably do not wamt : to see the results (as I suspect you anticipated). i dunno; if you could email them to me it might be interesting. i, too, had high gre verbals (800) (i know it’s bragging, sorry).  i’ve forgotten half of what i learned about diagramming, though. : I Yam Disgustified! me, too. — deb if one more customer says "parentheses" when he means "quotation marks"…

Response:

sine nomine <ll…@drizzle.com> wrote: >: "not really confident about them anymore." Lady, you have a positive >: genius for understatement!  You’re dealing with a bunch of quacks, >: make _sure_ that your sleep doctor knows about this crew!  And, for >: the sake of their possible future victims, who are these people?  The >: company name and address would be welcome. <Evil Grin> >actually, it’s odd; swedish sleep institute is one of the best sleep >centers in the country and all of my dealings with them have been >wonderful. but swedish sleep therapy supply is disappointing me. on >the one hand, getting any information at all about why i had to go get >a machine immediately was helpful; otoh, i haven’t really found a tech >there i like very much. i think they don’t like people who research >stuff.

That’s awfully surprising, and very disappointing. I’ve heard absolutely nothing but praise for Swedish, I’d make sure that your sleep doctor knows that there’s a problem. >: Errr, how’s the hose suspension project coming? >i finally suspended it. only i used the bottom edge of the blinds (our >bed’s under the window) and this morning i had my first experience >with serious rainout. the bright side is, i needed to get up anyway.

Was the window open?  You may need another layer of insulation. I’ve also wrapped my (quilt batting covered) hoses with Saran Wrap to keep breezes from blowing through the batting. >i’d had a couple of bad nights. last night was okay except for the >having to get up really early because now i work on sundays so i can >still have three days off each week. (i think there are too many >clauses in that sentence. *i’m* not going to diagram it)

It read fine to me, but grammar’s never been one of my strong points. >i hate whining so much.

Don’t worry about it. Really, we understand. Just keep plugging… Tom

Response:

> oh…….. and when you hit the hot flashes of menopause, post here again, i > have a few CPAP tricks that might help with that > kate

LOL!  The cold wind from the mask exhaust is a blessing for those hot flashes!  Unfortunately, my husband is not going through menopause and he does not appreciate the breeze when it blows in his direction Judy

Response:

exhaust??? heck…….. i remove the mask from my face and use the whole HOSE to help the hot flash slow down!!! best used in the summer when a hot flash can really be bothersome……. works better than any fan i know of! "Judy Simon" <heyjude0…@verizon.net> wrote in message

news:8DmWd.47320$s16.1211@trndny02… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > oh…….. and when you hit the hot flashes of menopause, post here again, i > > have a few CPAP tricks that might help with that > > kate > LOL!  The cold wind from the mask exhaust is a blessing for those hot > flashes!  Unfortunately, my husband is not going through menopause and > he does not appreciate the breeze when it blows in his direction > Judy

Response:

LOL! I won’t knock it- it works Judy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Tiger Lily wrote: > exhaust??? heck…….. i remove the mask from my face and use the whole > HOSE to help the hot flash slow down!!! > best used in the summer when a hot flash can really be bothersome……. > works better than any fan i know of! > "Judy Simon" <heyjude0…@verizon.net> wrote in message > news:8DmWd.47320$s16.1211@trndny02… >>>oh…….. and when you hit the hot flashes of menopause, post here > again, i >>>have a few CPAP tricks that might help with that >>>kate >>LOL!  The cold wind from the mask exhaust is a blessing for those hot >>flashes!  Unfortunately, my husband is not going through menopause and >>he does not appreciate the breeze when it blows in his direction >>Judy

Response:

i found that the hot flash would make my face sweat under the CPAP mask……….. so THAT was the first site that got the ‘air treatment’ from the CPAP machine……… THEN i found out that ALL areas could benefit by this!!!! lol kate "Judy Simon" <heyjude0…@verizon.net> wrote in message

news:oTpWd.60038$W16.48728@trndny07… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> LOL! I won’t knock it- it works > Judy > Tiger Lily wrote: > > exhaust??? heck…….. i remove the mask from my face and use the whole > > HOSE to help the hot flash slow down!!! > > best used in the summer when a hot flash can really be bothersome……. > > works better than any fan i know of! > > "Judy Simon" <heyjude0…@verizon.net> wrote in message > > news:8DmWd.47320$s16.1211@trndny02… > >>>oh…….. and when you hit the hot flashes of menopause, post here > > again, i > >>>have a few CPAP tricks that might help with that > >>>kate > >>LOL!  The cold wind from the mask exhaust is a blessing for those hot > >>flashes!  Unfortunately, my husband is not going through menopause and > >>he does not appreciate the breeze when it blows in his direction > >>Judy

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -sine nomine wrote: > Tom Devlin wrote: > : Other folks have said that air from nasal pillows is more "forceful" > : than air from a conventional mask. I don’t understand this, but I’m > : sure that it’s real. > it doesn’t make sense to me in theory, but in practice it’s quite odd. > : Not really "weird", and really pretty "normal" around here. You’re > : actually doing very well, give yourself a Gold Star, or a Godiva’s > : Truffle, whichever you prefer. > mmm. truffle. > : "not really confident about them anymore." Lady, you have a positive > : genius for understatement!  You’re dealing with a bunch of quacks, > : make _sure_ that your sleep doctor knows about this crew!  And, for > : the sake of their possible future victims, who are these people?  The > : company name and address would be welcome. <Evil Grin> > actually, it’s odd; swedish sleep institute is one of the best sleep > centers in the country and all of my dealings with them have been > wonderful. but swedish sleep therapy supply is disappointing me. on > the one hand, getting any information at all about why i had to go get > a machine immediately was helpful; otoh, i haven’t really found a tech > there i like very much. i think they don’t like people who research > stuff. > : Errr, how’s the hose suspension project coming? > i finally suspended it. only i used the bottom edge of the blinds (our > bed’s under the window) and this morning i had my first experience > with serious rainout. the bright side is, i needed to get up anyway. > : Ok, but now how were your _previous_ nights?  Sleep debt accumulates. > i’d had a couple of bad nights. last night was okay except for the > having to get up really early because now i work on sundays so i can > still have three days off each week. (i think there are too many > clauses in that sentence. *i’m* not going to diagram it) > i hate whining so much. and loosening the straps does help a lot, > though last night i had a bitch of a time getting a good seal.

I’m with Tom, regarding Swedish.  There have been others here who went there.  A couple years ago I went to their website and was impressed with their professional staff. However, that could have changed.

Response:

I diagrammed the sentence in question. You probably do not wamt to see the results (as I suspect you anticipated). Many years ago I got a 790 on the verbal part of SAT and a few years later got a 784 pn the verbal pert of the GRE. I was really good at diagramming and still use this tool at work. (You thought your English teacher lied to you about that. You were wrong). At least once a month I must diagram a sentence in a (usually futile) effort to determine what the sender (usually a manager who should be a much more effective communicator) really meant to say Some times I fail to find the intended message. Unfortunately, most of the ‘gobbledygook’ sentences come from senior management. Senior management (mostly WASP!) tends to communicate less precisely than our fresh-off-the-whatever-means-of-transport ethnicians! That causes me as a WAS(lapsed)P some distress. I had a public school education, but am managed by children of the wealthy. These children.with all their high-priced private education,  have not managed to acquire basic skills in the use of their native language! As PopEye would say: I Yam Disgustified!  . On Mon, 07 Mar 2005 00:20:05 -0000, sine nomine <ll…@drizzle.com> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Tom Devlin wrote: >: Other folks have said that air from nasal pillows is more "forceful" >: than air from a conventional mask. I don’t understand this, but I’m >: sure that it’s real. >it doesn’t make sense to me in theory, but in practice it’s quite odd. >: Not really "weird", and really pretty "normal" around here. You’re >: actually doing very well, give yourself a Gold Star, or a Godiva’s >: Truffle, whichever you prefer. >mmm. truffle. >: "not really confident about them anymore." Lady, you have a positive >: genius for understatement!  You’re dealing with a bunch of quacks, >: make _sure_ that your sleep doctor knows about this crew!  And, for >: the sake of their possible future victims, who are these people?  The >: company name and address would be welcome. <Evil Grin> >actually, it’s odd; swedish sleep institute is one of the best sleep >centers in the country and all of my dealings with them have been >wonderful. but swedish sleep therapy supply is disappointing me. on >the one hand, getting any information at all about why i had to go get >a machine immediately was helpful; otoh, i haven’t really found a tech >there i like very much. i think they don’t like people who research >stuff. >: Errr, how’s the hose suspension project coming? >i finally suspended it. only i used the bottom edge of the blinds (our >bed’s under the window) and this morning i had my first experience >with serious rainout. the bright side is, i needed to get up anyway. >: Ok, but now how were your _previous_ nights?  Sleep debt accumulates. >i’d had a couple of bad nights. last night was okay except for the >having to get up really early because now i work on sundays so i can >still have three days off each week. (i think there are too many >clauses in that sentence. *i’m* not going to diagram it) >i hate whining so much. and loosening the straps does help a lot, >though last night i had a bitch of a time getting a good seal.

regards, eric pearson nonono.ericp1.non…@nonono.fuse.net

Response:

Tom Devlin wrote:

: Other folks have said that air from nasal pillows is more "forceful" : than air from a conventional mask. I don’t understand this, but I’m : sure that it’s real. it doesn’t make sense to me in theory, but in practice it’s quite odd. : Not really "weird", and really pretty "normal" around here. You’re : actually doing very well, give yourself a Gold Star, or a Godiva’s : Truffle, whichever you prefer. mmm. truffle. : "not really confident about them anymore." Lady, you have a positive : genius for understatement!  You’re dealing with a bunch of quacks, : make _sure_ that your sleep doctor knows about this crew!  And, for : the sake of their possible future victims, who are these people?  The : company name and address would be welcome. <Evil Grin> actually, it’s odd; swedish sleep institute is one of the best sleep centers in the country and all of my dealings with them have been wonderful. but swedish sleep therapy supply is disappointing me. on the one hand, getting any information at all about why i had to go get a machine immediately was helpful; otoh, i haven’t really found a tech there i like very much. i think they don’t like people who research stuff. : Errr, how’s the hose suspension project coming? i finally suspended it. only i used the bottom edge of the blinds (our bed’s under the window) and this morning i had my first experience with serious rainout. the bright side is, i needed to get up anyway. : Ok, but now how were your _previous_ nights?  Sleep debt accumulates. i’d had a couple of bad nights. last night was okay except for the having to get up really early because now i work on sundays so i can still have three days off each week. (i think there are too many clauses in that sentence. *i’m* not going to diagram it) i hate whining so much. and loosening the straps does help a lot, though last night i had a bitch of a time getting a good seal. — deb caulking gun?

Response:

On Sat, 5 Mar 2005 15:23:24 -0700, "Tiger Lily" <m…@privacy.com> wrote: >i found that the hot flash would make my face sweat under the CPAP >mask……….. so THAT was the first site that got the ‘air treatment’ from >the CPAP machine……… THEN i found out that ALL areas could benefit by >this!!!! >lol >kate

<Snip> Now I’ll have to try to go to sleep with my mask on, thinking of this.. Talk about a Sleep disorder… I’m going to have to watch someone kill a hog to get this picture out of my mind! Chuck

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -sine nomine wrote: > CPAPHATER wrote: > :  I have another sleep disorder now too which I have to deal with, but > : getting the victory over this machine battle has helped.  You will too. > thank you for the reassurance. it helps. thank you, too, judy. > : I have a question.  What is the 47% thing you mentioned?  I haven’t heard > : that. > when i had my sleep test, an hour or two into it they woke me up to > put me on cpap. (i think it was an hour or two because we hadn’t > gotten to the sleep on your back for a couple of hours part yet.) the > next morning, they sent me directly to the dme. i was confused, but > the dme insurance coordinator and then the tech who was fitting the > mask told me that the reason for the rush was that my o2 sat had > dropped to 47% just before they put the mask on. this freaked me out.

The amount of time you spent at 47% is important.  5 min is much less significant than 60 min (by a factor of 12 <g>). I went into the 40’s during one of my PSGs;  however, it was only for a relatively small amount of time.  I determined this from a plot developed by the lab, from PSG data, showing time vs O2 level. I’ve always had some concerns about my O2 level(s).  If I start to feel like crap, for unknown reasons, the first thing I do is borrow a recording pulse oximeter from my CRT.   I do this because the results (most always 98%) act as great stress relief.  I can rule out that my apnea is causing me problems.

Response:

you said it all Tom what can i add?? i went into this with pig headed muleheaded stubbornness to figure out the entire process and learn how to adapt to CPAP for me, that meant accepting that i wore the mask for only 4 hours for the first couple of weeks…….. hey, thats better than NOT wearing it then i discovered the mask off alert switch and set it to alert me when the mask came off……… that greatly improved my compliance rate all during this i was dealing with a passive humidifier that did sweet tweet to humidifying the air for me……….. and i discussed this with the sleep clinic until they decided that i needed a heated humidifier……. and then i moved to the heated humidifier then i discovered that i was mouth breathing……… so, back to the clinic and they set me up with a head strap to stop the mouth breathing (i seriously had my mouth hanging wide open here) and that was the most annoying device i have ever tried, so i learned to put my tongue on the back of my front upper teeth to form the seal………. and i have had to use the torture device a couple of times since to remind myself that i really don’t want to have to wear a headband………  :-) yeah……… it was a lot of baby steps that got me to full compliance…… but ya know……… the clinic that i would take my smart card to and they downloaded the results…….. they said that i was doing better than most of their patients……. and i credit this group for giving me the tenacity to ’stick it out and hang in there’ and do this one night at a time until i finally reached full compliance (and where i remain today….. i can’t even have a nap without the CPAP machine on) oh…….. and when you hit the hot flashes of menopause, post here again, i have a few CPAP tricks that might help with that kate – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Tom Devlin" <> wrote in message .com… > sine nomine <ll…@drizzle.com> wrote: > >yeah, i had the ramp on. with the nasal pillows, full-force is too > >much at first; with the mask, it’s just right. > Other folks have said that air from nasal pillows is more "forceful" > than air from a conventional mask. I don’t understand this, but I’m > sure that it’s real. > >it was a little better last night, i think. i’m not sure. > Like Kate used to say, "baby steps", you’ll get there. > >: Look, you went years without CPAP, an occasional lapse probably isn’t > >good point. still, i have this horror of turning blue in my > >sleep. it’s weird, because i was reluctant to go to sleep before i got > >the machine. now i’m afraid to go to sleep without the machine but i > >don’t really like going to sleep with it. it’s really getting weird. > Not really "weird", and really pretty "normal" around here. You’re > actually doing very well, give yourself a Gold Star, or a Godiva’s > Truffle, whichever you prefer. > >: You don’t know until you try. Remember that your DME has a stake in > >: getting you compliant, they’ll probably have to take all the gear back > >good point. i’m holding off til i see the sleep doc again. maybe he > >knows something i don’t. i’d call the sleep tech at the dme again, but > >the first one is the guy who suggested i not use the humidifier and > >the second guy is the one who was surprised that i was using nasal > >pillows instead of a nasal mask and who was horrified that i was > >consulting a newsgroup because "they’re full of manufacturer reps who > >will mislead you and try to sell you things." i’m not really confident > >about them anymore. > "not really confident about them anymore." Lady, you have a positive > genius for understatement!  You’re dealing with a bunch of quacks, > make _sure_ that your sleep doctor knows about this crew!  And, for > the sake of their possible future victims, who are these people?  The > company name and address would be welcome. <Evil Grin> > >if it were for you guys, i’d have tossed the machine and started > >sleeping upright on the couch. > That’s why we’re here. > >last night was better, i think. i decided to try to make myself sleep > >on my back, stopped worrying about mouth leak (no tape, just chin > >strap), and used the activa. i set the activa a lot looser than i have > >been, so that i had a good cushion that was a little more than half > >the full expanded size and still sealing. > This sounds good to me, I hope one of our Activa experts will jump in. > >the results were mixed. i went to bed at midnight, woke up at 6.30 for > >the bathroom, slept again until the alarm went off at 8. i don’t think > >i had any major mask problems (it may have been leaking a little at > >6.30, but i don’t remember much). on the other hand, sleeping on my > >back wasn’t terribly comfortable, > Errr, how’s the hose suspension project coming? > >and i was incredibly tired this > >morning — quad-latte-so-i-don’t-crash-the-car-driving-to-work tired. > Ok, but now how were your _previous_ nights?  Sleep debt accumulates. > >so i dunno if that’s better or worse. i didn’t need ephedrine once i > >got here, so that’s an improvement, i guess. > Once again, "baby steps". Kate, you want to jump in here? > Tom

Response:

sine nomine <ll…@drizzle.com> wrote: >yeah, i had the ramp on. with the nasal pillows, full-force is too >much at first; with the mask, it’s just right.

Other folks have said that air from nasal pillows is more "forceful" than air from a conventional mask. I don’t understand this, but I’m sure that it’s real. >it was a little better last night, i think. i’m not sure.

Like Kate used to say, "baby steps", you’ll get there. >: Look, you went years without CPAP, an occasional lapse probably isn’t >good point. still, i have this horror of turning blue in my >sleep. it’s weird, because i was reluctant to go to sleep before i got >the machine. now i’m afraid to go to sleep without the machine but i >don’t really like going to sleep with it. it’s really getting weird.

Not really "weird", and really pretty "normal" around here. You’re actually doing very well, give yourself a Gold Star, or a Godiva’s Truffle, whichever you prefer. >: You don’t know until you try. Remember that your DME has a stake in >: getting you compliant, they’ll probably have to take all the gear back >good point. i’m holding off til i see the sleep doc again. maybe he >knows something i don’t. i’d call the sleep tech at the dme again, but >the first one is the guy who suggested i not use the humidifier and >the second guy is the one who was surprised that i was using nasal >pillows instead of a nasal mask and who was horrified that i was >consulting a newsgroup because "they’re full of manufacturer reps who >will mislead you and try to sell you things." i’m not really confident >about them anymore.

"not really confident about them anymore." Lady, you have a positive genius for understatement!  You’re dealing with a bunch of quacks, make _sure_ that your sleep doctor knows about this crew!  And, for the sake of their possible future victims, who are these people?  The company name and address would be welcome. <Evil Grin> >if it were for you guys, i’d have tossed the machine and started >sleeping upright on the couch.

That’s why we’re here. >last night was better, i think. i decided to try to make myself sleep >on my back, stopped worrying about mouth leak (no tape, just chin >strap), and used the activa. i set the activa a lot looser than i have >been, so that i had a good cushion that was a little more than half >the full expanded size and still sealing.

This sounds good to me, I hope one of our Activa experts will jump in. >the results were mixed. i went to bed at midnight, woke up at 6.30 for >the bathroom, slept again until the alarm went off at 8. i don’t think >i had any major mask problems (it may have been leaking a little at >6.30, but i don’t remember much). on the other hand, sleeping on my >back wasn’t terribly comfortable,

Errr, how’s the hose suspension project coming? >and i was incredibly tired this >morning — quad-latte-so-i-don’t-crash-the-car-driving-to-work tired.

Ok, but now how were your _previous_ nights?  Sleep debt accumulates. >so i dunno if that’s better or worse. i didn’t need ephedrine once i >got here, so that’s an improvement, i guess.

Once again, "baby steps". Kate, you want to jump in here? Tom

Response:

CPAPHATER wrote:

:  I have another sleep disorder now too which I have to deal with, but : getting the victory over this machine battle has helped.  You will too. thank you for the reassurance. it helps. thank you, too, judy. : I have a question.  What is the 47% thing you mentioned?  I haven’t heard : that. when i had my sleep test, an hour or two into it they woke me up to put me on cpap. (i think it was an hour or two because we hadn’t gotten to the sleep on your back for a couple of hours part yet.) the next morning, they sent me directly to the dme. i was confused, but the dme insurance coordinator and then the tech who was fitting the mask told me that the reason for the rush was that my o2 sat had dropped to 47% just before they put the mask on. this freaked me out. — deb fear-based compliance is fun!

Response:

Hi Deb, Thanks for explaining the 47% thing.  I didn’t realize your were talking about the oxygen desaturation.(of course) That is low. But I wouldn’t get too freaked out.  They did that to me also the first time and told me I had to get on the machine immediately or I would probably die in my sleep.  Some people tend to be alarmists. The added stress they put on you does not help but only creates anxiety about not being able to use it ‘perfectly’ immediately. I know how serious our sleep disorders are, but we survived how long ? before the diagnoses so I am not too freaked out about missing the odd time out of necessity or discomfort,  especially when (as is the case with you) you are still adjusting and trying to find the right comfort level and ‘fit’ for you. If everything the docs and techs told me were true I would be dead by now.  So just keep pursuing the proper equipment match for you and you will be fine.  When you get frustrated in the middle of the night and rip it off like I did, just scream as loud as you can to get the anger out, he,he (into your pillow of course so people don’t call the police).

Response:

Tom Devlin wrote:

: If you’re using the Ramp feature, then I’d suggest that you turn it : off. I had to set the minimum pressure during my AutoPAP trial to the : pressure from my previous titration, I didn’t feel that I could breath : at the default low pressure. yeah, i had the ramp on. with the nasal pillows, full-force is too much at first; with the mask, it’s just right. : It’s starting to sound like you may need a full-face mask, Norm is our : resident expert here. it was a little better last night, i think. i’m not sure. : Look, you went years without CPAP, an occasional lapse probably isn’t : going to kill you. Andy recently mentioned that the "splinting" effect : of CPAP often lasts for a night or two, the last thing you need right : now is something else to worry about. good point. still, i have this horror of turning blue in my sleep. it’s weird, because i was reluctant to go to sleep before i got the machine. now i’m afraid to go to sleep without the machine but i don’t really like going to sleep with it. it’s really getting weird. : You don’t know until you try. Remember that your DME has a stake in : getting you compliant, they’ll probably have to take all the gear back : if you don’t show good numbers after 30 days. And that means that : they’ll lose money… good point. i’m holding off til i see the sleep doc again. maybe he knows something i don’t. i’d call the sleep tech at the dme again, but the first one is the guy who suggested i not use the humidifier and the second guy is the one who was surprised that i was using nasal pillows instead of a nasal mask and who was horrified that i was consulting a newsgroup because "they’re full of manufacturer reps who will mislead you and try to sell you things." i’m not really confident about them anymore. : Compliance issues are usually due to lack of proper support. That : doesn’t apply to you, because you have us, and our batting average is : _very_ good. if it were for you guys, i’d have tossed the machine and started sleeping upright on the couch. : We can’t work magic, but we _are_ here for you, even if we’re just a : handy target to scream at. : So don’t hold back, ok?  You _will_ get through this! thank you. last night was better, i think. i decided to try to make myself sleep on my back, stopped worrying about mouth leak (no tape, just chin strap), and used the activa. i set the activa a lot looser than i have been, so that i had a good cushion that was a little more than half the full expanded size and still sealing. the results were mixed. i went to bed at midnight, woke up at 6.30 for the bathroom, slept again until the alarm went off at 8. i don’t think i had any major mask problems (it may have been leaking a little at 6.30, but i don’t remember much). on the other hand, sleeping on my back wasn’t terribly comfortable, and i was incredibly tired this morning — quad-latte-so-i-don’t-crash-the-car-driving-to-work tired. so i dunno if that’s better or worse. i didn’t need ephedrine once i got here, so that’s an improvement, i guess. — deb still wishing they made full head masks

Response:

sine nomine wrote: i don’t know that i expect anyone to > have solutions (though that would be nice). i am just so so so bleah > about this right now. i want someone to make it go away.

Hang in there Deb.  With the support of all the experience in this NG, you’ll make it. Judy

Response:

Wow! Can I relate to what you are going through, hence my nickname CPAPHATER.   I almost chucked it a few times.   If it weren’t for the patience of my wonderful doc and her persistence and help working with the DME, I would not be here.  I was diagnosed in 2001 and so many problems, anxiety, panick attacks etc. trying to use those masks that I had decided I was better off just to die than go through that.  So it may be a road of trial and error for you but please persist in finding the right combination for you.  I have found these systems are like thumbprints and there are no too alike.  You just have to find the right combination for you.  Once you do, life will change dramatically.  I NEVER would have believed I could ever use one let alone become compliant but I now use it every single night for at least 8 hours effortlessy, no problems.  So you WILL get there!  I remember being so angry and rebelliouse and obstinate it is a wonder my doctor even kept me on. But when you are so sleep deprived you can’t cope with normal daily stress and then having to use this machine just helps to blow (pardon the pun) everything out of proportion.  I look back now at all the anger and frustration I felt and how I almost gave up.  I have another sleep disorder now too which I have to deal with, but getting the victory over this machine battle has helped.  You will too. I have a question.  What is the 47% thing you mentioned?  I haven’t heard that.  

Response:

sine nomine <ll…@drizzle.com> wrote: >last night was horrible. i started out with the activa, had a horrid >panic attack (no idea why, but then with panic attacks you usually >don’t have a reason) and had to take it off because it was >exacerbating the whole "can’t breathe" feeling that comes with panic >attacks.

If you’re using the Ramp feature, then I’d suggest that you turn it off. I had to set the minimum pressure during my AutoPAP trial to the pressure from my previous titration, I didn’t feel that I could breath at the default low pressure. >when things were okay again, i put the nasal pillows on. they >hurt. and i’ve been trying to figure out ways to keep myself from >breathing through my lips even with the chin strap — things like a >curad telfa pad and paper tape (just the tape by itself gets soggy >overnight), but i can breathe through that, too. the chin strap (a >resmed one with a back strap to keep it in place) keeps my jaw closed, >but it doesn’t keep my lips closed.

It’s starting to sound like you may need a full-face mask, Norm is our resident expert here. >besides not working, the paper tape means that once i put it on i >can’t talk at all, not even to say sweet things to my husband. so that >sucks, because i like to cuddle before sleep and sometimes he comes to >bed well after i do. at least with mask/chinstrap i can turn things >off for a moment and say hello.

Well, ok… But ask your husband if he’d rather hear from you at night, or still have you alive in the morning. >last night, i think i managed 3 or 4 hours with the pillows, then gave >up in disgust and slept too late and missed jury duty and woke up >feeling awful and headachy, and scared that i’d done something >horrible to my brain by not using the machine (yes, the insurance >coordinator did put the fear of god into me by telling me about the >47% thing).

Look, you went years without CPAP, an occasional lapse probably isn’t going to kill you. Andy recently mentioned that the "splinting" effect of CPAP often lasts for a night or two, the last thing you need right now is something else to worry about. >it’s gotten so i’m wondering if i should get a huge activa cushion and >use it like a ffm. i mean, i don’t think i can go get another mask >because i’ve already done that once and i don’t even know if insurance >would pay for one.

You don’t know until you try. Remember that your DME has a stake in getting you compliant, they’ll probably have to take all the gear back if you don’t show good numbers after 30 days. And that means that they’ll lose money… >i know that it wouldn’t work, but i really do >understand why compliance is an issue. at first, i figured that i >could put up with whatever for a few weeks til i got used to it, but >i’m so frustrated that i’m beginning to wonder if i was better off >without the damned machine.

Compliance issues are usually due to lack of proper support. That doesn’t apply to you, because you have us, and our batting average is _very_ good. >i see my sleep doctor in a week to go over the results of the psg and >talk about what it all means. i’m trying hard not to fling the machine >out the window until then (it helps that it’s a first-floor window so >it wouldn’t accomplish much).

My wife feels the same way about her sewing machine. <g> > i don’t know that i expect anyone to >have solutions (though that would be nice). i am just so so so bleah >about this right now. i want someone to make it go away.

We can’t work magic, but we _are_ here for you, even if we’re just a handy target to scream at. So don’t hold back, ok?  You _will_ get through this! Tom

Response:

last night was horrible. i started out with the activa, had a horrid panic attack (no idea why, but then with panic attacks you usually don’t have a reason) and had to take it off because it was exacerbating the whole "can’t breathe" feeling that comes with panic attacks. when things were okay again, i put the nasal pillows on. they hurt. and i’ve been trying to figure out ways to keep myself from breathing through my lips even with the chin strap — things like a curad telfa pad and paper tape (just the tape by itself gets soggy overnight), but i can breathe through that, too. the chin strap (a resmed one with a back strap to keep it in place) keeps my jaw closed, but it doesn’t keep my lips closed. besides not working, the paper tape means that once i put it on i can’t talk at all, not even to say sweet things to my husband. so that sucks, because i like to cuddle before sleep and sometimes he comes to bed well after i do. at least with mask/chinstrap i can turn things off for a moment and say hello. last night, i think i managed 3 or 4 hours with the pillows, then gave up in disgust and slept too late and missed jury duty and woke up feeling awful and headachy, and scared that i’d done something horrible to my brain by not using the machine (yes, the insurance coordinator did put the fear of god into me by telling me about the 47% thing). it’s gotten so i’m wondering if i should get a huge activa cushion and use it like a ffm. i mean, i don’t think i can go get another mask because i’ve already done that once and i don’t even know if insurance would pay for one. i know that it wouldn’t work, but i really do understand why compliance is an issue. at first, i figured that i could put up with whatever for a few weeks til i got used to it, but i’m so frustrated that i’m beginning to wonder if i was better off without the damned machine. i see my sleep doctor in a week to go over the results of the psg and talk about what it all means. i’m trying hard not to fling the machine out the window until then (it helps that it’s a first-floor window so it wouldn’t accomplish much). i don’t know that i expect anyone to have solutions (though that would be nice). i am just so so so bleah about this right now. i want someone to make it go away. — deb maybe if i had a spaceman helmet…

Response: