Pillar Implant Procedure – 90 day sleep study results for your review

Question:

Tom Devlin wrote:

: Many of us experience very vivid, and frequently disturbing, dreams : after getting our apnea treated, these tend to go away as we get used : to dreaming again. i never stopped dreaming. i had very vivid dreams before the apnea, and if anything i’m having fewer dreams that i remember now. does this make me weirder than i already thought i was? — deb not that that has anything to do with the topic

Response:

sine nomine <ll…@drizzle.com> wrote: >: Many of us experience very vivid, and frequently disturbing, dreams >: after getting our apnea treated, these tend to go away as we get used >: to dreaming again. >i never stopped dreaming. i had very vivid dreams before the apnea, >and if anything i’m having fewer dreams that i remember now. does this >make me weirder than i already thought i was?

Not everybody quits dreaming before treatment. I’d guess that your CPAP is keeping your apneas from awakening you during your dreams. This is a Very Good Thing. <g> Tom

Response:

On 27 Feb 2005 13:57:39 -0800, Sleepy Stoboy wrote in response to my comments: >Very good point on the FSA.  I always forget that, even though I signed >up for one this year.

I’m an absolute FSA believer although I’m fairly predictable. (Make that "semi-predictable." I didn’t anticipate my doctor deciding to optimize my blood pressure meds by 30-day trials or hypothyroidism getting to the point where I needed Synthroid and frequent TSH checks.) >As far as being a "few fries short of a happy meal", IMHO, the UPPP is >missing the burger and shake as well.  

But it still has the yummy styrofoam clamshell. <wink> >The clinical studies are just brutal on these procedures and their >effectiveness, and they have hurt the credibility of current and >future procedures.

Surgical correction of OSA has to deal with annoying little things like the effects of computational fluid dynamics. There’s very little you can do to make the offending areas stop collapsing short of implanting a length of medical-grade furnace duct… and that would make it very hard to go through the metal detectors at the airport. >My guess is that the rear of tongue is killing my supine >measurements, and no amount of stiffening in my palate was >going to improve that totally.

NASA has found zero-G helps a lot. (One of the medical studies that they have done involved giving astronauts polysomnograms on Earth and on-orbit to see how the sleep structure changes.) But at $10,000 a pound, they’re not going to launch any Hoover Heads if they can help it.

Response:

Thanks Kate, I sure hope so.  But it is what it is with this condition… I’ve found the dental device to be very comfortable- but only after wearing it for a few weeks.  There has been an adjustment period, but your jaw seems to get used to the stretch after awhile.  I end up waking up surprised that I have no discomfort with it. That being said, I’m on about day 30.  Long term study on these devices is non-existent, that I’ve found.  I’m aware that there are TMJ concerns.  I’m hoping more information surfaces if I’m still using it in year 3 or year 4…

Response:

oh…….. you answered my next question……… i have TMJ issues too with the sleep guard that i used………… thank you for your honesty "Sleepy Stoboy" <jbog…@comcast.net> wrote in message

news:1109542376.081222.321350@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Thanks Kate, I sure hope so.  But it is what it is with this > condition… > I’ve found the dental device to be very comfortable- but only after > wearing it for a few weeks.  There has been an adjustment period, but > your jaw seems to get used to the stretch after awhile.  I end up > waking up surprised that I have no discomfort with it. > That being said, I’m on about day 30.  Long term study on these devices > is non-existent, that I’ve found.  I’m aware that there are TMJ > concerns.  I’m hoping more information surfaces if I’m still using it > in year 3 or year 4…

Response:

Sleepy Stoboy wrote: > Thanks for the support.  I agree on being zealous.  Ultimately, people > need as much hard data as they can get.  Anecdotal information, while > interesting, isn’t enough to make a serious medical decision on.

I haven’t done as much research in recent years as I did starting in 2000.  At that time it appeared to me that it was extremely difficult to find REALLY useful hard data about many of the aspects of OSA/CA.  Don’t know how it is today. After I had been on CPAP for a couple months, I discovered that the air was exiting my lips, resulting in dry mouth and feeling like crap again.  I wanted to know more about why I had OSA and, in particular, why I was suddenly opening my jaw or lips. I learned about airway endoscopies here, on ASSD, primarily from Mike and Bear (for which I will always be grateful), both of which had had unsuccessful UPPPs. I first went to an ENT, which was a waste of time.  I hadn’t asked if he had the equipment… just expected (wrongly) that he did. Then I went to a maxillo facial surgeon and got my endoscopy.  Two matters of interest here. Whereas he said that I had a big tongue, uvula, etc. and told me of the various surgeries, he indicated that he no longer did UPPPs because of the low success rate. The other matter was that although he seemed to push surgery during my visit, he sensed that I was not interested based on what he had seen in the endoscopy, and, in his written report to my referring internist, didn’t mention any need for any kind of surgery. Perhaps he was already able to afford to send his kids to college <wry grin>. Curious to know history of your weight and neck size. > Yeah, on the dreams, it’s more of an observation than anything that > would necessarily pertain to better health.  I have heard that if you > are recollecting your dreams that you may be waking during REM sleep, > thus being interrupted.  It was just a strange side effect to suddenly > dream again.  Do you think there is some correlation between RDI levels > and dreams?  REM RDI levels and dreams?  

I’ve never given a thought to either of your questions; however, if you are getting REM sleep, and thus dreaming, the higher the RDI, the more often your ’sleep’ will be interrupted, so it seems that the potential for recalling more dreams would be there. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Something seemed to pull a > trigger here. > As for things continuing to go well, I’m mildly optimistic.  Everyone > has seen so many UPPP regressions, that that is top of mind.  But I > think the fact that I’m not cutting away tissue only to watch scar > tissue accumulate where there once was palate, will be the difference. > I’m simply stiffening previously floppy tissue. > I’ll continue to provide updates.  There may be some who want to > consider a pillar/TAP combo as a treatment plan.

Response:

"Sleepy Stoboy" <jbog…@comcast.net> wrote: >Yeah, on the dreams, it’s more of an observation than anything that >would necessarily pertain to better health.  I have heard that if you >are recollecting your dreams that you may be waking during REM sleep, >thus being interrupted.  It was just a strange side effect to suddenly >dream again.  Do you think there is some correlation between RDI levels >and dreams?  REM RDI levels and dreams?  Something seemed to pull a >trigger here.

There seem to be a couple of things happening here…. Many of us experience very vivid, and frequently disturbing, dreams after getting our apnea treated, these tend to go away as we get used to dreaming again. OTOH, most people don’t remember their dreams unless they’re awakened during one. Apneic events will often do this, I can tell when my pressure needs increasing by the number of dreams I seem to have. (I’m dreaming every night, but won’t normally be aware of them.)   >I’ll continue to provide updates.  There may be some who want to >consider a pillar/TAP combo as a treatment plan.

Please do… We really need your long term reports. Tom

Response:

Very good point on the FSA.  I always forget that, even though I signed up for one this year. As far as being a "few fries short of a happy meal", IMHO, the UPPP is missing the burger and shake as well.  The clinical studies are just brutal on these procedures and their effectiveness, and they have hurt the credibility of current and future procedures. Agree on the REM and supine RDI improvement.  I moved the needle on my stage 2 sleep substantially, but didn’t pick up any additional deep wave sleep, which is what I ultimately need as well.  My guess is that the rear of tongue is killing my supine measurements, and no amount of stiffening in my palate was going to improve that totally.

Response:

Definitely.  My hope is that my post TAP sleep study will show that this has been addressed by that point.  But if not, I’ll be going to CPAP.  The clinical studies I’ve read on TAP indicate very close oxygen sat levels compared to CPAP (about 1 percentage point less for TAP).

Response:

Thanks for the support.  I agree on being zealous.  Ultimately, people need as much hard data as they can get.  Anecdotal information, while interesting, isn’t enough to make a serious medical decision on. Yeah, on the dreams, it’s more of an observation than anything that would necessarily pertain to better health.  I have heard that if you are recollecting your dreams that you may be waking during REM sleep, thus being interrupted.  It was just a strange side effect to suddenly dream again.  Do you think there is some correlation between RDI levels and dreams?  REM RDI levels and dreams?  Something seemed to pull a trigger here. As for things continuing to go well, I’m mildly optimistic.  Everyone has seen so many UPPP regressions, that that is top of mind.  But I think the fact that I’m not cutting away tissue only to watch scar tissue accumulate where there once was palate, will be the difference. I’m simply stiffening previously floppy tissue. I’ll continue to provide updates.  There may be some who want to consider a pillar/TAP combo as a treatment plan.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Sleepy Stoboy wrote: > About 3 months ago, I posted that I had undergone the pillar implant > procedure and reported that I was sleeping better.  There were a couple > of well wishers in the crowd, but a few of you asked for 90 day sleep > study results to prove that the procedure was effective.  I thought I > would post the pre and post sleep study results for your review. > Pre-Pillar (9/15/2004) > – RDI of 36 > – Low oxygen point of 86.5% > – REM Sleep % = 11% > – Sleep Efficiency = 70% > – Supine Apnea RDI = 67 > – REM RDI = 20 > Post-Pillar (2/7/2005) > – RDI of 18 > – Low oxygen point of 89% > – REM Sleep % = 22% > – Sleep Efficiency = 95% > – Supine Apnea RDI = 41 > – REM RDI = 17 > On a qualitative side, I noticed a significant improvement in my sleep > after about 3 weeks.  I went from not dreaming at all to having dreams > again.  And I went from several (15+) awakenings that I was aware of > per night to around 3-4. > After the 90 day period, I knew that the treatment had not resolved all > of the apneas, so I was fitted for a TAP dental appliance.  I have now > used that appliance for about 4 weeks, and it has been terrific.  After > 4 weeks of adjustments, I am now close to sleeping uninterrupted > throughout the night.  I plan on having another sleep study done at the > end of the year to make any additional adjustments to resolve any > additional apneas that may be occurring. > Let me know if you have any questions regarding pillar or TAP.  While > not a "cure" for me, it did resolve the palatal portion of my blockage, > and the TAP is now effectively addressing the rear of tongue blockage > that I have.  My own personal suggestion is that anyone interested with > an RDI of 20 or less should get a consultation with an ENT on this > procedure, as a significant reduction in your case could bring you to > an acceptable RDI without further treatment.  Those in the moderate > range (20-40) may find that this works as part of a one-two punch, > either with another treatment option or one of the surgeries that > addresses tongue base (GA, hyoid, repose, etc.).  Some may find that it > lowers their current CPAP pressure. > Cost is an issue, as most insurance companies are not covering this. > With the FDA approval, some may come over in the next year or two. > For those of you who are determinedly anti-surgery or just against the > concept of early adopting newer procedures, I’m not looking to incite a > 40-post flame war here.  Your treatment decisions are your own and > should be respected.  However there is probably a group of others who > are either curioius or actively interested.  While hardly a clinical > study, this pre and post data is similar to those who participated in > the 50-person clinical study Restore Medical conducted earlier last > year.  If you’re interested, a consultation with an ENT is critical to > determine if you are a candidate (long palate) for the procedure. > Thanks in advance for keeping this discussion respectful.

I’d like to add my thanks to you for posting this information. Although I was not/am not familiar with the Pillar implant procedure,  IIRC (and I may not), I think I commented on a number of side effects that I had researched for TAP. However, I try to keep track of all sides of this stuff, and am adding your post to my local database. Cost was one of the things that entered into my decision. Medicare will not pay for TAP, even when recommended/prescribed by my neurologist certified sleep doctor. Please continue to take a few minutes to keep us informed. And thanks for your keeping this discussion respectful. Sometimes the desire to help people/keep newbies from experiencing our own problems (past and present), causes us to become quite zealous. Reading all the new posts and trying to help those that we can, can become an awesome task, particularly by email/newsposts, especially after 3 years (I took 2004 off <g>). I sincerely hope that things continue to go well for you. BTW, with regard to dreaming, there has been a good deal of discussion here about whether it is ‘good’ or ‘bad’ to be aware of your dreams.  Dreaming and recalling one’s dreams are two different matters. That is, if one does not have any kind of sleep disorder, one will dream.  Dreams are good.  They are required. However it is the understanding of some of us that dreams are only recalled if one awakens during the dream or very shortly after a dream ends. Since dreams occur during REM sleep, someone who never recalls a dream probably is not getting REM sleep.  If one recalls a lot of dreams, he is apparently getting REM sleep.   But the question becomes, is the person awaking from apneas, and/or other sleep disorders and recalling the dreams. Some of us judge the quality of our sleep based on whether we recall any dreams.  For me, no recollection of dreams normally results in a perfect day.  The more dreams I recall, the crappier I may feel that following day.

Response:

"Sleepy Stoboy" <jbog…@comcast.net> wrote in message

news:1109526607.069962.135400@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> About 3 months ago, I posted that I had undergone the pillar implant > procedure and reported that I was sleeping better.  There were a couple > of well wishers in the crowd, but a few of you asked for 90 day sleep > study results to prove that the procedure was effective.  I thought I > would post the pre and post sleep study results for your review. > Pre-Pillar (9/15/2004) > – RDI of 36 > – Low oxygen point of 86.5% > – REM Sleep % = 11% > – Sleep Efficiency = 70% > – Supine Apnea RDI = 67 > – REM RDI = 20 > Post-Pillar (2/7/2005) > – RDI of 18 > – Low oxygen point of 89% > – REM Sleep % = 22% > – Sleep Efficiency = 95% > – Supine Apnea RDI = 41 > – REM RDI = 17 > On a qualitative side, I noticed a significant improvement in my sleep > after about 3 weeks.  I went from not dreaming at all to having dreams > again.  And I went from several (15+) awakenings that I was aware of > per night to around 3-4. > After the 90 day period, I knew that the treatment had not resolved all > of the apneas, so I was fitted for a TAP dental appliance.  I have now > used that appliance for about 4 weeks, and it has been terrific.  After > 4 weeks of adjustments, I am now close to sleeping uninterrupted > throughout the night.  I plan on having another sleep study done at the > end of the year to make any additional adjustments to resolve any > additional apneas that may be occurring. > Let me know if you have any questions regarding pillar or TAP.  While > not a "cure" for me, it did resolve the palatal portion of my blockage, > and the TAP is now effectively addressing the rear of tongue blockage > that I have.  My own personal suggestion is that anyone under an RDI of > 20 should get a consultation with an ENT on this procedure, as a > significant reduction in your case could bring you to an acceptable RDI > without further treatment.  Those in the moderate range (20-40) may > find that this works as part of a one-two punch, either with another > treatment option or one of the surgeries that addresses tongue base > (GA, hyoid, repose, etc.).  Some may find that it lowers their current > CPAP pressure. > Cost is an issue, as most insurance companies are not covering this. > With the FDA approval, some may come over in the next year or two. > For those of you who are determinedly anti-surgery or just against the > concept of early adopting newer procedures, I’m not looking to incite a > 40-post flame war here.  Your treatment decisions are your own and > should be respected.  However there is probably a group of others who > are either curioius or actively interested.  While hardly a clinical > study, this pre and post data is similar to those who participated in > the 50-person clinical study Restore Medical conducted earlier last > year.  If you’re interested, a consultation with an ENT is critical to > determine if you are a candidate (long palate) for the procedure. > Thanks in advance for keeping this discussion respectful.

Great to see a positive result. Personally, while there is an evident improvement the 89% low oxygen point might be of concern (usually anything below 95% needs attention of some type) and would be worth mentioning on your next visit to your sleep specialist. Please keep us informed. Dan.

Response:

thank you very much for your update on this new procedure i hope the addition of the splint resolves your sleep apnea to the degree you don’t need anymore treatment question about the splint……….. is it uncomfortable to wear?? i had a paranoia over the splint and went for the CPAP instead………… just my phobia………. thanks kate "Sleepy Stoboy" <jbog…@comcast.net> wrote in message

news:1109525738.735904.258400@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> About 3 months ago, I posted that I had undergone the pillar implant > procedure and reported that I was sleeping better.  There were a couple > of well wishers in the crowd, but a few of you asked for 90 day sleep > study results to prove that the procedure was effective.  I thought I > would post the pre and post sleep study results for your review. > Pre-Pillar (9/15/2004) > – RDI of 36 > – Low oxygen point of 86.5% > – REM Sleep % = 11% > – Sleep Efficiency = 70% > – Supine Apnea RDI = 67 > – REM RDI = 20 > Post-Pillar (2/7/2005) > – RDI of 18 > – Low oxygen point of 89% > – REM Sleep % = 22% > – Sleep Efficiency = 95% > – Supine Apnea RDI = 41 > – REM RDI = 17 > On a qualitative side, I noticed a significant improvement in my sleep > after about 3 weeks.  I went from not dreaming at all to having dreams > again.  And I went from several (15+) awakenings that I was aware of > per night to around 3-4. > After the 90 day period, I knew that the treatment had not resolved all > of the apneas, so I was fitted for a TAP dental appliance.  I have now > used that appliance for about 4 weeks, and it has been terrific.  After > 4 weeks of adjustments, I am now close to sleeping uninterrupted > throughout the night.  I plan on having another sleep study done at the > end of the year to make any additional adjustments to resolve any > additional apneas that may be occurring. > Let me know if you have any questions regarding pillar or TAP.  While > not a "cure" for me, it did resolve the palatal portion of my blockage, > and the TAP is now effectively addressing the rear of tongue blockage > that I have.  My own personal suggestion is that anyone interested with > an RDI of 20 or less should get a consultation with an ENT on this > procedure, as a significant reduction in your case could bring you to > an acceptable RDI without further treatment.  Those in the moderate > range (20-40) may find that this works as part of a one-two punch, > either with another treatment option or one of the surgeries that > addresses tongue base (GA, hyoid, repose, etc.).  Some may find that it > lowers their current CPAP pressure. > Cost is an issue, as most insurance companies are not covering this. > With the FDA approval, some may come over in the next year or two. > For those of you who are determinedly anti-surgery or just against the > concept of early adopting newer procedures, I’m not looking to incite a > 40-post flame war here.  Your treatment decisions are your own and > should be respected.  However there is probably a group of others who > are either curioius or actively interested.  While hardly a clinical > study, this pre and post data is similar to those who participated in > the 50-person clinical study Restore Medical conducted earlier last > year.  If you’re interested, a consultation with an ENT is critical to > determine if you are a candidate (long palate) for the procedure. > Thanks in advance for keeping this discussion respectful.

Response:

i had to wear a splint for grinding my teeth at night every morning i had to find where did the splint go i never did adjust to that splint!! when i was diagnosed with sleep apnea i was given a choice of CPAP versus the splint for it………….. i told them NO WAY can i do a splint. i’ve been there and done that……….. to no avail……… CPAP would be the way i’d have to go now you know why i was so stubborn about getting used to the CPAP machine……….. the other threat was a splint!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! sigh "Charlie Perrin" <c.l.perrin@SPAMBOTS_DIEatt.net> wrote in message

news:0f5421h7hn9d93d1knullqk1q54ejcj5e5@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 11:34:08 -0700, Tiger Lily wrote: > >question about the splint……….. is it uncomfortable to wear?? i > >had a paranoia over the splint and went for the CPAP > >instead………… just my phobia………. > The difference between a CPAP and a TAP if either would work for you > is that you get to choose your favorite poison. <wink>

Response:

About 3 months ago, I posted that I had undergone the pillar implant procedure and reported that I was sleeping better.  There were a couple of well wishers in the crowd, but a few of you asked for 90 day sleep study results to prove that the procedure was effective.  I thought I would post the pre and post sleep study results for your review. Pre-Pillar (9/15/2004) – RDI of 36 – Low oxygen point of 86.5% – REM Sleep % = 11% – Sleep Efficiency = 70% – Supine Apnea RDI = 67 – REM RDI = 20 Post-Pillar (2/7/2005) – RDI of 18 – Low oxygen point of 89% – REM Sleep % = 22% – Sleep Efficiency = 95% – Supine Apnea RDI = 41 – REM RDI = 17 On a qualitative side, I noticed a significant improvement in my sleep after about 3 weeks.  I went from not dreaming at all to having dreams again.  And I went from several (15+) awakenings that I was aware of per night to around 3-4. After the 90 day period, I knew that the treatment had not resolved all of the apneas, so I was fitted for a TAP dental appliance.  I have now used that appliance for about 4 weeks, and it has been terrific.  After 4 weeks of adjustments, I am now close to sleeping uninterrupted throughout the night.  I plan on having another sleep study done at the end of the year to make any additional adjustments to resolve any additional apneas that may be occurring. Let me know if you have any questions regarding pillar or TAP.  While not a "cure" for me, it did resolve the palatal portion of my blockage, and the TAP is now effectively addressing the rear of tongue blockage that I have.  My own personal suggestion is that anyone interested with an RDI of 20 or less should get a consultation with an ENT on this procedure, as a significant reduction in your case could bring you to an acceptable RDI without further treatment.  Those in the moderate range (20-40) may find that this works as part of a one-two punch, either with another treatment option or one of the surgeries that addresses tongue base (GA, hyoid, repose, etc.).  Some may find that it lowers their current CPAP pressure. Cost is an issue, as most insurance companies are not covering this. With the FDA approval, some may come over in the next year or two. For those of you who are determinedly anti-surgery or just against the concept of early adopting newer procedures, I’m not looking to incite a 40-post flame war here.  Your treatment decisions are your own and should be respected.  However there is probably a group of others who are either curioius or actively interested.  While hardly a clinical study, this pre and post data is similar to those who participated in the 50-person clinical study Restore Medical conducted earlier last year.  If you’re interested, a consultation with an ENT is critical to determine if you are a candidate (long palate) for the procedure. Thanks in advance for keeping this discussion respectful.

Response:

On 27 Feb 2005 09:50:07 -0800, Sleepy Stoboy wrote: >About 3 months ago, I posted that I had undergone the pillar implant >procedure and reported that I was sleeping better.  There were a couple >of well wishers in the crowd, but a few of you asked for 90 day sleep >study results to prove that the procedure was effective.   >Pre-Pillar (9/15/2004) >- RDI of 36 >- Supine Apnea RDI = 67 >- REM RDI = 20 >Post-Pillar (2/7/2005) >- RDI of 18 >- Supine Apnea RDI = 41 >- REM RDI = 17

In your case, you’ve gotten (overall) the 50% improvement that 50% of people get from UPPP…. without the nasty recovery period of UPPP. However, both supine and REM RDI show less than 50% improvement but they’re the harder times to control OSA. >After the 90 day period, I knew that the treatment had not resolved all >of the apneas, so I was fitted for a TAP dental appliance.  I have now >used that appliance for about 4 weeks, and it has been terrific.  

Multiple attacks at all the targets of opportunity can and do work. >Cost is an issue, as most insurance companies are not covering this.

It’ll help as soon as HCPCS gets a distinct procedure code for it. >With the FDA approval, some may come over in the next year or two.

I think somebody mentioned $800, may have been you. On the other hand, if there’s somebody who is a good Pillar candidate and they have a Section 125 ("Flexible Spending Account") plan at work, I would expect the FSA would let you pay for it pre-tax if you planned to have the money set up at the right time. And FSA has an extra whammy in the tax department, FSA funds are taken out pre-FICA, so that adds another 7% of savings. The IRS rules for what they allow a FSA to cover are fairly liberal: in summary, anything that treats a specific health problem that isn’t illegal or solely cosmetic surgery. For example, FSA’s pay for LASIK. On the other hand, the great majority of health insurance plans that cover LASIK are for companies that make LASIK hardware… and the insurance company gets told point-blank to cover the procedure. >For those of you who are determinedly anti-surgery or just against the >concept of early adopting newer procedures, I’m not looking to incite a >40-post flame war here.  Your treatment decisions are your own and >should be respected.  However there is probably a group of others who >are either curioius or actively interested.  

I’m always curious in seeing how the newer procedures work… but surgery has so far been a "few fries short of a Happy Meal" for OSA treatment, barring a blatant structural deformity.

Response:

On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 11:34:08 -0700, Tiger Lily wrote: >question about the splint……….. is it uncomfortable to wear?? i >had a paranoia over the splint and went for the CPAP >instead………… just my phobia……….

The difference between a CPAP and a TAP if either would work for you is that you get to choose your favorite poison. <wink>

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Sleepy Stoboy wrote: > About 3 months ago, I posted that I had undergone the > pillar implant procedure and reported that I was sleeping > better.  There were a couple of well wishers in the > crowd, but a few of you asked for 90 day sleep study > results to prove that the procedure was effective.  I > thought I would post the pre and post sleep study results > for your review. > Pre-Pillar (9/15/2004) > – RDI of 36 > – Low oxygen point of 86.5% > – REM Sleep % = 11% > – Sleep Efficiency = 70% > – Supine Apnea RDI = 67 > – REM RDI = 20 > Post-Pillar (2/7/2005) > – RDI of 18 > – Low oxygen point of 89% > – REM Sleep % = 22% > – Sleep Efficiency = 95% > – Supine Apnea RDI = 41 > – REM RDI = 17 > On a qualitative side, I noticed a significant > improvement in my sleep after about 3 weeks.  I went from > not dreaming at all to having dreams again.  And I went > from several (15+) awakenings that I was aware of per > night to around 3-4. > After the 90 day period, I knew that the treatment had > not resolved all of the apneas, so I was fitted for a TAP > dental appliance.  I have now used that appliance for > about 4 weeks, and it has been terrific.  After 4 weeks > of adjustments, I am now close to sleeping uninterrupted > throughout the night.  I plan on having another sleep > study done at the end of the year to make any additional > adjustments to resolve any additional apneas that may be > occurring. > Let me know if you have any questions regarding pillar or > TAP.  While not a "cure" for me, it did resolve the > palatal portion of my blockage, and the TAP is now > effectively addressing the rear of tongue blockage that I > have.  My own personal suggestion is that anyone > interested with an RDI of 20 or less should get a > consultation with an ENT on this procedure, as a > significant reduction in your case could bring you to an > acceptable RDI without further treatment.  Those in the > moderate range (20-40) may find that this works as part > of a one-two punch, either with another treatment option > or one of the surgeries that addresses tongue base (GA, > hyoid, repose, etc.).  Some may find that it lowers their > current CPAP pressure. > Cost is an issue, as most insurance companies are not > covering this. With the FDA approval, some may come over > in the next year or two. > For those of you who are determinedly anti-surgery or > just against the concept of early adopting newer > procedures, I’m not looking to incite a 40-post flame war > here.  Your treatment decisions are your own and should > be respected.  However there is probably a group of > others who are either curioius or actively interested. > While hardly a clinical study, this pre and post data is > similar to those who participated in the 50-person > clinical study Restore Medical conducted earlier last > year.  If you’re interested, a consultation with an ENT > is critical to determine if you are a candidate (long > palate) for the procedure.

I would hope that everyone is interested in your results. Thanks for posting them along with your subjective feelings and experience. I can only hope that you will continue to post these on an ongoing basis. -Quick

Response:

Can't wait

Question:

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 10:07:50 -0000, Frankie wrote: >It always seems strange to congratulate somebody on having OSA lol >but when I was diagnosed I just wanted to shout it out to the world   >hehehe <g>.

Well, once you’re diagnosed: #1 – What you have has a name #2 – What you have (hopefully) has a way to deal with it

Response:

Thanks for all your responses, FWIW my doctor is prescribing a machine that includes heated humidified air.

Response:

"Tom" <whatleyyelt…@houston.jklh..rr.com> wrote: >Thanks for all your responses, FWIW my doctor is prescribing a machine that includes heated >humidified air.

Excellent!  Kudos to your doc. Tony

Response:

Man, I’m really excited. I heard back from my doctor today with the results of my sleep study. He is going to contact the sleep tech people(?) Monday and get me set up with a Cflex. I’ve been waiting for weeks to get going on this and I’m really looking forward to sleep. :^) The test revealed 721 events (105/hour), blood oxygen level as low as 76%. With the Cpap I had 4/hour and blood oxygen stayed above 95% all night. Felt great the next day. Good luck to all of those who are struggling with any kind of sleep disorder, they can really screw up your life. ____ Tom

Response:

Love your enthusiasm.  Just promise yourself that when you get it, and have been on it for the first week or two, that you will come back and read your post again. With your attitude, you should do well though. Keep us informed.

Response:

Congratulations. Keep us posted. To look out for: 1 – If your pressure is perhaps 6-10cm ask doc for a humidifier. If >10 cm, insist on a heated one.

2 – Expect some experimentation/disappointment in facial interface. Learn about differences between masks and pillows. DO NOT GIVE UP IF YOUR FIRST INTERFACE IS A PROBLEM! 3- If you do not see improvement, contact your sleep doc. Many/most initial Rx are for too low a pressure. Depending upon your symptoms, your doc may be open to increasing (or in a few cases, decreasing) your pressure by 1-2 cm without another study. Please keep us posted of your progress. regards, eric pearson nonono.ericp1.non…@nonono.fuse.net On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 01:30:08 GMT, "Tom" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<whatleyyelt…@houston.jklh..rr.com> wrote: >Man, I’m really excited. I heard back from my doctor today with the results of my sleep study. He is >going to contact the sleep tech people(?) Monday and get me set up with a Cflex. I’ve been waiting >for weeks to get going on this and I’m really looking forward to sleep. :^) The test revealed 721 >events (105/hour), blood oxygen level as low as 76%. With the Cpap I had 4/hour and blood oxygen >stayed above 95% all night. Felt great the next day. Good luck to all of those who are struggling >with any kind of sleep disorder, they can really screw up your life. >____ >Tom

Response:

WTG Tom It always seems strange to congratulate somebody on having OSA lol but when I was diagnosed I just wanted to shout it out to the world  hehehe <g>. Now with perserverance you can concentrate on getting well again  :) keep us posted Frankie "Tom" <whatleyyelt…@houston.jklh..rr.com> wrote in message

news:Am_Fd.7536$_56.5516@fe2.texas.rr.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Man, I’m really excited. I heard back from my doctor today with the > results of my sleep study. He is > going to contact the sleep tech people(?) Monday and get me set up with a > Cflex. I’ve been waiting > for weeks to get going on this and I’m really looking forward to sleep. > :^) The test revealed 721 > events (105/hour), blood oxygen level as low as 76%. With the Cpap I had > 4/hour and blood oxygen > stayed above 95% all night. Felt great the next day. Good luck to all of > those who are struggling > with any kind of sleep disorder, they can really screw up your life. > ____ > Tom

Response:

"Tom" <whatleyyelt…@houston.jklh..rr.com> wrote: >Man, I’m really excited. I heard back from my doctor today with the results of my sleep study. He is >going to contact the sleep tech people(?) Monday and get me set up with a Cflex. I’ve been waiting >for weeks to get going on this and I’m really looking forward to sleep. :^) The test revealed 721 >events (105/hour), blood oxygen level as low as 76%. With the Cpap I had 4/hour and blood oxygen >stayed above 95% all night. Felt great the next day. Good luck to all of those who are struggling >with any kind of sleep disorder, they can really screw up your life.

Your enthusiasm is impressive.  Those statistics show you have severe OSAS and you should find CPAP is of enormous benefit. However, not everyone succeeds with CPAP at the first attempt.  Often, considerable attention to detail is needed to get masks to work well. You may even have to try several different masks before you find one that suits you.   One of the most important contributors to success with CPAP is using a heated humidifier in-line between the CPAP and mask.  Those of use who have used them would describe them as not just a desirable option, but an essential component of any CPAP/mask system. So be patient, and make use of this newsgroup to help you through any problems you might have.  Whatever the problem, there will be someone on here who has already experienced it and who will guide you towards a solution. Good luck! Tony

Response:

Newbie Question Please

Question:

"Harlan Lachman" <hlach…@nospamadelphia.net> wrote in message

news:hlachman-9BE149.16170104052004@isp.ash.giganews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Bob, this is a fair question. > 1. Most of us cannot afford non-success. The health impacts of not > treating OSA are too severe. So non success is not an option you should > consider. > 2. OTOH, few folks I have talked to will rave about how great their DMEs > is/was and how (s)he solved all their problems and made compliance easy. > 3. Most of us hang out here because here is the expertise that could > make your life and compliance a lot easier. > 4.  You can have it be too expensive or a lot less expensive depending > on how demanding you are of your rights. You don’t give a lot of > information but for starters: > A.  Make sure you are prescribed by your doctor a CPAP machine with > heated humidification, perhaps CFLEX, and one that is reported to be > quiet and small. I lucked out, at least according to members of my local > AWAKE group and got a Respironics Remstar Plus with CFLEX. Other good > machines with heated humidification are available. > B. Make sure you determine whether you prefer nasal masks, full face > masks or pillows as soon as you can. If your DME can’t/won’t help you, > see if you can visit your sleep lab or Doctor or local awake group and > try the three different styles — under pressure. They are so different. > C. I use Nasal Masks. Since you have to start with one, I recommend > starting with the ResMed Mirage Activa. There may be better masks for > you out there, but this one won’t leak and will be ok if you move around > until you find the ideal mask(s). > D. If you use pillows, insist on the Adams Circuit with the Conjo > Headgear. Too many people like it for it not to be a good > representative. Again, there are options you might prefer once you get > over the first few weeks/months of usage (e.g., the Breeze and the > Comfort Lite which is my second system — many of us need two systems to > vary between to avoid rashes, change of pace, etc.). But based on my > reading, you want to start with a bullet proof system and the Adams with > Conjo is the one. > E. If you need a full face, contact Sleep Net Corporation and try to get > to be a beta tester for their full face mask. Others in this NG may > disagree but it seems to me that this segment is getting gyped when one > looks at all the innovations in just the past year. > F. When something feels wrong or impossible, check Tal’s FAQ. It saved > my life when I had a cold and helped me make a lot of minor adjustments. > Only ten thousand notes convinced me that I could actually stop leaks of > some masks by loosening them. > G. If you don’t find the answer in the FAQ (a selected search engine), > post as specific a question as you can. You would be surprised how much > others can help. > H. Join and participate in your local AWAKE chapter. If there is not one > in your area, start one as I did with our local lab. We have had > numerous reps come and demonstrate their wares. This is best way to > learn about what options there are. > In other words, Bob, if you don’t let yourself be a victim, you can be > compliant. By definition, hooking oneself up to a mask or pillow, hose > and machine will not be "easy". And I have heard no one describe this > gear as cheap (if you have any copay at all). But it is doable, > affordable and worth your effort. > harlan > BTW, thanks to all who have helped me get to this point. > In article <a6Hlc.17027$Ut1.515…@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, >  "Bob Newman" <bobnew…@worldnet.att.net> wrote: > > I’ve been diagnosed with sleep apnea, even though I thought I had a restless > > night with the study, they said the testing machine indecated my sleep was > > significantly better with the mask.  It looks like I’m getting a CPAP. > > I am very apprehensive reading this newsgroups re all the different types of > > CPAPs, masks, settings, etc. and problems people seem to be having with > > them.  Is it just because that is the nature of a group like this or is this > > likely to be a very bumpy, expensive venture with a significant chance of > > non-success for me? > > I realize the question is quite general but any help you could give would be > > greatly appreciated. > — > To respond, obviously drop the "nospan"?

I’ll second some of the other posters here.  We all looked at this with dismay, but considered the alternatives.  Then we DID it. Really, it’s not that bad.  Weird at first, but not all that bad. I disagree with Harlan on the nasal pillows.  I’ve tried ADAM (but in fairness, not CONJO).  I’ve stuck with the Breeze.  It works.  I can’t answer whether anything would work better; I don’t know.  The only alternative I tried was the NasalAire, and it didn’t work for me (but it’s worked just fine for others).  We all have unique head sizes and shapes, and beak sizes and shapes.  This isn’t a "one size fits all" situation. Best advise I can give is try as many variants as you can.  Your "interface" (mask/pillows) should give you a comfortable seal, but shouldn’t be tight. Be aware of nasty things like pressure sores.  Tightening up on your interface increases your liklihood of pressure sores.  If your interface leaks, and you can’t stop it without cinching up on the straps, you need a different design. For blowers, I’d look at the Resmed Elite series.  I have a "Sullivan VI" (now obsolete) and I love how quiet it is.  I’ve compared with the Puritan Bennet Goodnight 420 and a Tranquility model (don’t remember which).  Also Resmed (son has one).  It’s not even close. Try to listen to them. If you travel consider a travel bag.  The bag has to be big enough to hold all your gear plus an extension cord and cube-tap (multi-outlet).  Too many hotels don’t have an outlet near the bed, or have all of the outlets occupied.  But don’t carry too big a bag. Keep us posted here.  Some of us have had a rough start, and others have just taken to it with no problems.  If you’re lucky, the latter will be your story.  But there are enough of us here who have had problems to offer suggestions and sympathy (empathy, I think). Paul R

Response:

Bob, this is a fair question. 1. Most of us cannot afford non-success. The health impacts of not treating OSA are too severe. So non success is not an option you should consider. 2. OTOH, few folks I have talked to will rave about how great their DMEs is/was and how (s)he solved all their problems and made compliance easy. 3. Most of us hang out here because here is the expertise that could make your life and compliance a lot easier. 4.  You can have it be too expensive or a lot less expensive depending on how demanding you are of your rights. You don’t give a lot of information but for starters: A.  Make sure you are prescribed by your doctor a CPAP machine with heated humidification, perhaps CFLEX, and one that is reported to be quiet and small. I lucked out, at least according to members of my local AWAKE group and got a Respironics Remstar Plus with CFLEX. Other good machines with heated humidification are available. B. Make sure you determine whether you prefer nasal masks, full face masks or pillows as soon as you can. If your DME can’t/won’t help you, see if you can visit your sleep lab or Doctor or local awake group and try the three different styles — under pressure. They are so different. C. I use Nasal Masks. Since you have to start with one, I recommend starting with the ResMed Mirage Activa. There may be better masks for you out there, but this one won’t leak and will be ok if you move around until you find the ideal mask(s). D. If you use pillows, insist on the Adams Circuit with the Conjo Headgear. Too many people like it for it not to be a good representative. Again, there are options you might prefer once you get over the first few weeks/months of usage (e.g., the Breeze and the Comfort Lite which is my second system — many of us need two systems to vary between to avoid rashes, change of pace, etc.). But based on my reading, you want to start with a bullet proof system and the Adams with Conjo is the one. E. If you need a full face, contact Sleep Net Corporation and try to get to be a beta tester for their full face mask. Others in this NG may disagree but it seems to me that this segment is getting gyped when one looks at all the innovations in just the past year. F. When something feels wrong or impossible, check Tal’s FAQ. It saved my life when I had a cold and helped me make a lot of minor adjustments. Only ten thousand notes convinced me that I could actually stop leaks of some masks by loosening them. G. If you don’t find the answer in the FAQ (a selected search engine), post as specific a question as you can. You would be surprised how much others can help. H. Join and participate in your local AWAKE chapter. If there is not one in your area, start one as I did with our local lab. We have had numerous reps come and demonstrate their wares. This is best way to learn about what options there are. In other words, Bob, if you don’t let yourself be a victim, you can be compliant. By definition, hooking oneself up to a mask or pillow, hose and machine will not be "easy". And I have heard no one describe this gear as cheap (if you have any copay at all). But it is doable, affordable and worth your effort. harlan BTW, thanks to all who have helped me get to this point. In article <a6Hlc.17027$Ut1.515…@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,  "Bob Newman" <bobnew…@worldnet.att.net> wrote: > I’ve been diagnosed with sleep apnea, even though I thought I had a restless > night with the study, they said the testing machine indecated my sleep was > significantly better with the mask.  It looks like I’m getting a CPAP. > I am very apprehensive reading this newsgroups re all the different types of > CPAPs, masks, settings, etc. and problems people seem to be having with > them.  Is it just because that is the nature of a group like this or is this > likely to be a very bumpy, expensive venture with a significant chance of > non-success for me? > I realize the question is quite general but any help you could give would be > greatly appreciated.

– To respond, obviously drop the "nospan"?

Response:

Bob Newman wrote: > I’ve been diagnosed with sleep apnea, even though I thought I had a restless > night with the study, they said the testing machine indecated my sleep was > significantly better with the mask.  It looks like I’m getting a CPAP. > I am very apprehensive reading this newsgroups re all the different types of > CPAPs, masks, settings, etc. and problems people seem to be having with > them.  Is it just because that is the nature of a group like this or is this > likely to be a very bumpy, expensive venture with a significant chance of > non-success for me? > I realize the question is quite general but any help you could give would be > greatly appreciated.

Bob, Hang in there, I’ll get back to you as soon as I can. — Bob Gootee

Response:

Biggest hint for success is don’t let the DME off easy on the mask/pillows. Make sure they let you try several so you can find what works for you. Next hint is ‘pay attention’. If you note anything wrong or you are not getting results, inform your doc in detail. regards, eric pearson nonono.ericp1.non…@nonono.fuse.net On Tue, 04 May 2004 06:53:58 GMT, "Bob Newman" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<bobnew…@worldnet.att.net> wrote: >I’ve been diagnosed with sleep apnea, even though I thought I had a restless >night with the study, they said the testing machine indecated my sleep was >significantly better with the mask.  It looks like I’m getting a CPAP. >I am very apprehensive reading this newsgroups re all the different types of >CPAPs, masks, settings, etc. and problems people seem to be having with >them.  Is it just because that is the nature of a group like this or is this >likely to be a very bumpy, expensive venture with a significant chance of >non-success for me? >I realize the question is quite general but any help you could give would be >greatly appreciated.

Response:

Bob…… with the help of this newsgroup i was able to become a compliant CPAP user.  It takes determination (for me it did) to tell yourself you WILL become adapted to the strange mask on your face at night.  Last night i woke up (stresses bugging me) and i thought, maybe it’s the mask….. i’ll try to sleep without that…….. couldn’t sleep, put the mask back on and within 15 min i was sleeping soundly again you WILL adapt, and this group will help you do just that kate "Bob Newman" <bobnew…@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message

news:a6Hlc.17027$Ut1.515765@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ve been diagnosed with sleep apnea, even though I thought I had a restless > night with the study, they said the testing machine indecated my sleep was > significantly better with the mask.  It looks like I’m getting a CPAP. > I am very apprehensive reading this newsgroups re all the different types of > CPAPs, masks, settings, etc. and problems people seem to be having with > them.  Is it just because that is the nature of a group like this or is this > likely to be a very bumpy, expensive venture with a significant chance of > non-success for me? > I realize the question is quite general but any help you could give would be > greatly appreciated. > — > Thanks in advance… Bob

Response:

I’ve been diagnosed with sleep apnea, even though I thought I had a restless night with the study, they said the testing machine indecated my sleep was significantly better with the mask.  It looks like I’m getting a CPAP. I am very apprehensive reading this newsgroups re all the different types of CPAPs, masks, settings, etc. and problems people seem to be having with them.  Is it just because that is the nature of a group like this or is this likely to be a very bumpy, expensive venture with a significant chance of non-success for me? I realize the question is quite general but any help you could give would be greatly appreciated. — Thanks in advance… Bob

Response:

Bob Newman <bobnew…@worldnet.att.net> wrote: > QUESTIONS, (PLEASE see complication below): > 1. Is it possible that even though I didn’t realize I had a better night’s > sleep, medically I did and I would receive significant benefit?

Yes, that’s how it worked for me. > 2. Can I rent a machine or get a loaner for a trial time to see how well it > works with me?

Probably — your doctor will be able to refer you (note that rental depends a lot upon where you’re located in teh world). > 3. I understand there are different machines and masks of different features > and qualities.  How is it possible to find the right one without of course > spending a fortune on the process of elimination?

All of them are better than nothing. > NOTE: ***IMPORTANT COMPLICATION*** > I received the sleep disorder diagnosis about 2 1/2 weeks ago.  Last week > out of the blue I had to have emergency quintuple cardiac bi-pass surgery > and got home from the hospital this week, needless to say so far that rehab > has not been the most pleasant thing.  Should the mask be postponed until > the rehab is further along?  OR IS IT POSSIBLE that the apnea put a lot of > extra strain on my heart in the 1st place and needs to be taken care of ASAP > for better surgical recovery and future health in general?

The latter. Get it asap. There’s lots of people here who have had lower blood pressure as a result of having their apnea treated (I only got lower ocular pressure, but I don’t suffer from high BP). — _Deirdre                                             http://deirdre.net "Ideally pacing should look like the stock market for the year 1999, up and up and up, but with lots of little dips downwards…."                                      – Wen Spencer on plotting a novel

Response:

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:25:09 GMT, Bob Newman pontificated at length: >1. Is it possible that even though I didn’t realize I had a better night’s >sleep, medically I did and I would receive significant benefit?

Definitely. Despite the name, sleep labs are not the best place to sleep. (OTOH, I was one of the lucky ones who knew his titration worked when he woke up.) >2. Can I rent a machine or get a loaner for a trial time to see how well it >works with me?

That’s a question to ask your insurance (I think you’re in the USA). >3. I understand there are different machines and masks of different features >and qualities.  How is it possible to find the right one without of course >spending a fortune on the process of elimination?

The mask is the critical thing. >I received the sleep disorder diagnosis about 2 1/2 weeks ago.  Last week >out of the blue I had to have emergency quintuple cardiac bi-pass surgery >and got home from the hospital this week, needless to say so far that rehab >has not been the most pleasant thing.  Should the mask be postponed until >the rehab is further along?  OR IS IT POSSIBLE that the apnea put a lot of >extra strain on my heart in the 1st place and needs to be taken care of ASAP >for better surgical recovery and future health in general?

I think this is one to ask the doctor. It does slightly increase breathing load, but apnea events aren’t good. — "So many sneakers, not enough feet." http://sneakers.pair.com/

Response:

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 22:28:19 GMT, VRadin pontificated at length: >The untreated, and probably undiagnosed, apnea is almost >certainly a DIRECT CAUSE of your recent  need for the heart >surgery. While it may not be the primary cause  (cholesterol? >genetics?) it sure didn’t help you any.

Then, there’s the new cause for heart disease: "inflammation." FWIW, I’ve already had the Cardio CRP test. — "So many sneakers, not enough feet." http://sneakers.pair.com/

Response:

Bob Newman wrote: > I am a long time diabetic (diet & exercise controlled) who has recently been

Bob, Same here but I take insulin. Have had diabetes 15+ yrs., APNEA 9 yrs (diagnosed and treated) > diagnosed with sleep apnea and have a couple of questions please.  I spent a > night in the hospital having the apnea test (no mask).  Then they said a > needed one so I went back for another test with the mask.  In the morning > they said that I did great and their equipment said I slept much better.  I > felt that I slept a very restless night and did not sleep well at all.  I’m > afraid if I go through with the mask & equipment I’ll wind up paying lots of > money for something that gives me no benefit. > QUESTIONS, (PLEASE see complication below): > 1. Is it possible that even though I didn’t realize I had a better night’s > sleep, medically I did and I would receive significant benefit?

See this – http://members.tripod.com/%7Esleephealth/phys8.html > 2. Can I rent a machine or get a loaner for a trial time to see how well it > works with me?

Yes*. Most insurance companies rent for 1 year,  month by month with it being paid off at the one year mark just for that reason. Some don’t take or adapt to the CPAP and give up on it. *Note: This depends on the DME and their policy that you go to. > 3. I understand there are different machines and masks of different features > and qualities.  How is it possible to find the right one without of course > spending a fortune on the process of elimination?

Not an easy thing to do, read and ask a lot of questions here and look at machines and the specs at the web sites. Also see – http://www.talhost.net/sleep/index.html > NOTE: ***IMPORTANT COMPLICATION*** > I received the sleep disorder diagnosis about 2 1/2 weeks ago.  Last week > out of the blue I had to have emergency quintuple cardiac bi-pass surgery > and got home from the hospital this week, needless to say so far that rehab > has not been the most pleasant thing.  Should the mask be postponed until > the rehab is further along?  OR IS IT POSSIBLE that the apnea put a lot of > extra strain on my heart in the 1st place and needs to be taken care of ASAP > for better surgical recovery and future health in general?

Four years ago I had a quad bypass after having a heart attack. I have many other health problems also. Get on a CPAP. I was back on mine as soon as they took the tubes out of my throat. I always take my CPAP to the hospital with me. If you looked at the URL I gave, you can see untreated APNEA causes your blood pressure to rise and rise as the night goes on. You do not want to blow a gasket or stroke out, we need another Bob around here > I realize that this is a lot and most of you are not doctors (although some > are) but any help you could give would be greatly appreciated.

Welcome aboard. — Bob Gootee

Response:

I am a long time diabetic (diet & exercise controlled) who has recently been diagnosed with sleep apnea and have a couple of questions please.  I spent a night in the hospital having the apnea test (no mask).  Then they said a needed one so I went back for another test with the mask.  In the morning they said that I did great and their equipment said I slept much better.  I felt that I slept a very restless night and did not sleep well at all.  I’m afraid if I go through with the mask & equipment I’ll wind up paying lots of money for something that gives me no benefit. QUESTIONS, (PLEASE see complication below): 1. Is it possible that even though I didn’t realize I had a better night’s sleep, medically I did and I would receive significant benefit? 2. Can I rent a machine or get a loaner for a trial time to see how well it works with me? 3. I understand there are different machines and masks of different features and qualities.  How is it possible to find the right one without of course spending a fortune on the process of elimination? NOTE: ***IMPORTANT COMPLICATION*** I received the sleep disorder diagnosis about 2 1/2 weeks ago.  Last week out of the blue I had to have emergency quintuple cardiac bi-pass surgery and got home from the hospital this week, needless to say so far that rehab has not been the most pleasant thing.  Should the mask be postponed until the rehab is further along?  OR IS IT POSSIBLE that the apnea put a lot of extra strain on my heart in the 1st place and needs to be taken care of ASAP for better surgical recovery and future health in general? I realize that this is a lot and most of you are not doctors (although some are) but any help you could give would be greatly appreciated. — Thanks in advance… Bob

Response:

In article <VKWhc.11357$_o3.370…@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, bobnew…@worldnet.att.net says… <<snippity snip>> > NOTE: ***IMPORTANT COMPLICATION*** > I received the sleep disorder diagnosis about 2 1/2 weeks ago.  Last week > out of the blue I had to have emergency quintuple cardiac bi-pass surgery > and got home from the hospital this week, needless to say so far that rehab > has not been the most pleasant thing.  Should the mask be postponed until > the rehab is further along?  OR IS IT POSSIBLE that the apnea put a lot of > extra strain on my heart in the 1st place and needs to be taken care of ASAP > for better surgical recovery and future health in general? > I realize that this is a lot and most of you are not doctors (although some > are) but any help you could give would be greatly appreciated.

Well, nothing like closing the barn door after the horse is gone <g>. Apnea is listed as a direct cause of CHD, CHF, and hypertension among other nasty and bothersome health problems.  The untreated, and probably undiagnosed, apnea is almost certainly a DIRECT CAUSE of your recent need for the heart surgery. While it may not be the primary cause (cholesterol? genetics?) it sure didn’t help you any. That said- glad to hear you’re home, but get that xpap & mask and get hooked up as soon as possible. You WILL have a better chance of recovery, you WILL put less strain on your already over-taxed ticker, and very possibly improve your future health. Hope you feel better, and keep us posted on your progress- compliance with the xpap can be a problem and there’s lots of great advice here about how to solve that. Vic

Response:

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:25:09 GMT, "Bob Newman" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<bobnew…@worldnet.att.net> wrote: >I am a long time diabetic (diet & exercise controlled) who has recently been >diagnosed with sleep apnea and have a couple of questions please.  I spent a >night in the hospital having the apnea test (no mask).  Then they said a >needed one so I went back for another test with the mask.  In the morning >they said that I did great and their equipment said I slept much better.  I >felt that I slept a very restless night and did not sleep well at all.  I’m >afraid if I go through with the mask & equipment I’ll wind up paying lots of >money for something that gives me no benefit. >QUESTIONS, (PLEASE see complication below): >1. Is it possible that even though I didn’t realize I had a better night’s >sleep, medically I did and I would receive significant benefit? >2. Can I rent a machine or get a loaner for a trial time to see how well it >works with me? >3. I understand there are different machines and masks of different features >and qualities.  How is it possible to find the right one without of course >spending a fortune on the process of elimination? >NOTE: ***IMPORTANT COMPLICATION*** >I received the sleep disorder diagnosis about 2 1/2 weeks ago.  Last week >out of the blue I had to have emergency quintuple cardiac bi-pass surgery >and got home from the hospital this week, needless to say so far that rehab >has not been the most pleasant thing.  Should the mask be postponed until >the rehab is further along?  OR IS IT POSSIBLE that the apnea put a lot of >extra strain on my heart in the 1st place and needs to be taken care of ASAP >for better surgical recovery and future health in general? >I realize that this is a lot and most of you are not doctors (although some >are) but any help you could give would be greatly appreciated.

Up to the point where you said "IMPORTANT COMPLICATION", you were describing a not brilliant sleep study, but probably an adequate one. The hospital environment is not the best for diagnosis, but even though you think you didn’t sleep well, you almost certainly did sleep enough for them to form a good diagnosis. Now that you have had a cardiac issue diagnosed (to put it mildly, and I’m glad it’s gone well), it can put a different perspective on the exact treatment required and equipment used. I think that the right thing to do is to discuss the apnoea issue with the cardiologist and see what he says in terms of when to deal with the apnoea issue. It is certainly possible that apnoea has had an effect on your heart – it has been linked to raised blood pressure, heart enlargement and several other cardio-vascular issues Certainly the cardiologist should communicate with the sleep clinic so that the right things are done at the right time. .andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Response:

Anyone Ever Been Sued for Posting Instructions?

Question:

"Terry Collins" <ter…@woa.com.au> wrote in message

news:40242AEF.2FF5A302@woa.com.au… > Martin Basil wrote: > > I think anyone offering advice or even comments has a duty of care > > particularly if they claim expertise in an area. > 1) Bullshit. If you are stupid enough to follow any advice I give, that > is your problem you imbecile. Somewhere in life, people have to take > responsibility for themselves and their actions.

Then what would be the point of your posting… it is not a question of not taking responsibility and if you offer advice you have to assume someone might take it which is what is meant by "having a duty of care" Martin

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Bob Gootee wrote: > Martin Basil wrote: >> I think anyone offering advice or even comments has a duty of care >> particularly if they claim expertise in an area. Beth your disclaimer is >> probably wise given your knowledge in this area but I don’t how it would >> stand legally if advice given was considered negligent. Also since >> this is >> international wouldn’t both parties have to be in the same >> jurisdiction for >> any action to be taken. >> Martin > This link is a little off track but it shows about liability and > comments made in usenet. > <http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2636211.stm> > I had some other links but lost them and about a month or two of backups > when I had a hard drive failure. People are libel for what they say > here. This isn’t some "free zone no man’s land" where anybody can say > what they want. ( see the 1st amendment message and I know this goes all > over the world ) People can say things here and get arrested. Granted it > would have to be rather bad, but it can happen. Everybody here can be > traced back to their ISP and with a court order they would have to show > who you are. > *We* know about advice given on usenet newsgroups but you get some poor > frantic freaked out ill person and you would be contributing. > I know some say you can crank your pressure up all you want with no > problem. I do not care, you can crank till you look like the Michelin > man but please reserve that for yourselves. > It’s like telling somebody how fast they can drive on ice and not > sliding, without knowing anything about the vehicle, weather or road > conditions.

Sort of like red lights.  Anyone can drive through them at any time………. No problem, unless you hit, or get hit by, another car or are spotted by the law. Unfortunately, and thankfully, there are no cpap cops. <g>

Response:

Tal wrote: > My comment below isn’t to "cover myself" it’s simply to point out to anyone > reading my posts that i’m not a medical professional! > and I take offense at your comment "your disclaimer is  probably wise given > your knowledge in this area"  I know more than any doctor i know personally > on the matter and more than a LOT of people that have posted here – for you > to indicate I dont’ know what i’m talking about isn’t particularly nice > — > Beth in Australia

Beth, I didn’t take it that way either. After the barrage of pot shots taken at you the other day, I think you are just a little gun-shy and understandably so — Bob

Response:

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 00:47:55 -0800, Bob Gootee wrote: >You should also add that this out of control torte system

Round cakes covered with nuts and frosting are out of control? No wonder we have a problem with fat people.

Response:

Martin Basil wrote: > I think anyone offering advice or even comments has a duty of care > particularly if they claim expertise in an area. Beth your disclaimer is > probably wise given your knowledge in this area but I don’t how it would > stand legally if advice given was considered negligent. Also since this is > international wouldn’t both parties have to be in the same jurisdiction for > any action to be taken. > Martin

This link is a little off track but it shows about liability and comments made in usenet. <http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2636211.stm> I had some other links but lost them and about a month or two of backups when I had a hard drive failure. People are libel for what they say here. This isn’t some "free zone no man’s land" where anybody can say what they want. ( see the 1st amendment message and I know this goes all over the world ) People can say things here and get arrested. Granted it would have to be rather bad, but it can happen. Everybody here can be traced back to their ISP and with a court order they would have to show who you are. *We* know about advice given on usenet newsgroups but you get some poor frantic freaked out ill person and you would be contributing. I know some say you can crank your pressure up all you want with no problem. I do not care, you can crank till you look like the Michelin man but please reserve that for yourselves. It’s like telling somebody how fast they can drive on ice and not sliding, without knowing anything about the vehicle, weather or road conditions. — Bob Gootee

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Dave J. (Scoop0901) wrote: > On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 21:47:00 +0000, Andy Hall <an…@hall.nospam> > wrote: >>If you have an issue with your CPAP machine, then obviously you should >>go to the appropriately qualified organisation to resolve it. >>If you decide to obtain information and do the work yourself, you can, >>but common sense tells me that the responsibility lies with you and >>not the provider of the information.    If someone obtains the >>information from an internet poster free of charge, they haven’t >>entered into any commercial arrangement with them, so why would they >>assume that they have any redress? > That argument would have protected McDonald’s from a multi-million > dollar payout for the woman who burned herself after she bought a cup > of *hot* coffee at the drive-thru window, then "accidentally" spilled > it on herself. > -dave

Dave, I read somewhere the award was reduced but she still got some big bucks. I think it was in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. There was another where a woman bought a coffee at a Burger King drive in window, pulled off to the side and was transferring it into her travel mug and spilled it into her lap and she tried to sue. She lost. — Bob

Response:

Martin Basil wrote: > I think anyone offering advice or even comments has a duty of care > particularly if they claim expertise in an area.

1) Bullshit. If you are stupid enough to follow any advice I give, that is your problem you imbecile. Somewhere in life, people have to take responsibility for themselves and their actions. 2) Prove that I or anyone who posts/posted in this newsgroup made this/their post! Last month, over 159,000 posts were suppossedly made from this domain, but none of them were (spammers). > Beth your disclaimer is > probably wise given your knowledge in this area but I don’t how it would > stand legally if advice given was considered negligent. Also since this is > international wouldn’t both parties have to be in the same jurisdiction for > any action to be taken.

Nope. {:-) How about we just stick to helping each other and the arseholes that want to carry with pseudo legal clap trap fuck off elsewhere.

Response:

> However, I do know several doctors > that know much more on the subject than I believe you know, or I know or > anyone else in the group knows. So I would be a bit hesitant before I made a > braggadocio statement such as you did in your last paragraph. A little > knowledge can be a dangerous thing;

i wasn’t talking about ALL doctors……i’d be pretty stupid if i thought i know more than all or even a lot of doctors…….i said more than doctors I know personally – which is only a small handful – but i was makign a point…….it seemed to me like martin was saying i need to cover myself because i’m giving out bad medical advice and dont’ know what i’m talking about — Beth in Australia (I am not a medical professional and anything stated in my posts is my opinion only unless specified otherwise) =================== FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://talhost.net/sleep Newsgroup Archives http://talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles

Response:

eric pearson wrote: > ‘Sued’ may be a US vs rest of world issue. > In US if you are stupid enough to pour hot coffee into your > lap, you can get squillions of dollars from the vendor. This is why we > cannot buy hot coffee in the US. If you want hot coffee, you must > make it yourself and accept the risk  of being sued by yourself.

Don’t look now but this stupidity is happening all over the world. People are suing all over the world for the very same things. Read fark.com or sites like that and you’ll see dozens of things. > However, in the US we do have a wonderful document called the Bill of > Rights. One of the rights is ‘freedom of speech’.

When was the last time you’ve read it? "Amendment I Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances." >Recent administrations have tried to restict ‘freedom of speech’ to ’speak > only those things the current powers deem appropriate’, but it has > been only a marginally succesful effort.

When did congress make this "law" repealing the First Amendment? Every administration has done it one way or another, none are without sin. > Freedom of speech in US would include passing on knowledge which you > have acquired and the acquisition of which has not included your > accepting a ‘non-disclosure’ agreement.

That has nothing to do with the First Amendment Freedom of Speech. When you are posting a message or article on usenet, you are posting on a commercial news server and you abide by their rules. What does this have to do with Congress abridging the freedom of speech? Go outside and stand on a soapbox and that’s a different thing. > The bottom line of the above is that in the US if I’ve not signed an > agreement to talk, I can disclose facts with extremely limited > liability. If someone has been clever enough to make me sign a > non-disclosure agreement, I am vulnerable. > Add to that that in the US, most practitioners refuse to provide > patients with even a modicum of info about anything lest the > practitioner be exposed to a totally out of control tort system, what > you come up with is that the only way a US patient can successfully > manage his/her treatment for darned near anything is to accept ‘gray > market’ options. We cannot (because of tort law) expect competent > and conscientious medical care.

You should also add that this out of control torte system led by the legal lobby system that is the biggest contributor to the democrats. Everything is liability today, you look at somebody wrong and some bastard want’s to sue you. > regards, > eric pearson > nonono.ericp1.non…@nonono.fuse.net

– Bob

Response:

"Tal" <goer…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:c001hc$11c3qc$2@ID-148111.news.uni-berlin.de… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > I think anyone offering advice or even comments has a duty of care > > particularly if they claim expertise in an area. Beth your disclaimer is > > probably wise given your knowledge in this area but I don’t how it would > > stand legally if advice given was considered negligent. Also since this is > > international wouldn’t both parties have to be in the same jurisdiction > for > > any action to be taken. > i don’t GIVE medical advice other than to see a doctor – I offer suggestions > on how people can best deal with CPAP issues and  tell people that to me > from what they’ve said it sounds like they may have a sleep disorder and > should see a doctor about it. > My comment below isn’t to "cover myself" it’s simply to point out to anyone > reading my posts that i’m not a medical professional! > and I take offense at your comment "your disclaimer is  probably wise given > your knowledge in this area"  I know more than any doctor i know personally > on the matter and more than a LOT of people that have posted here – for you > to indicate I dont’ know what i’m talking about isn’t particularly nice > — > Beth in Australia > (I am not a medical professional and anything stated in my posts is my > opinion only unless specified otherwise)

——————————————————– Wow!! You certainly read Martin’s post far differently than I did. I don’t believe he questioned your knowledge in the area.  I didn’t read him as saying  you do not know  what you’re talking about. However, I do know several doctors that know much more on the subject than I believe you know, or I know or anyone else in the group knows. So I would be a bit hesitant before I made a braggadocio statement such as you did in your last paragraph. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing; Hal S.

Response:

I was very happy to find instructions in this group on how to set the pressure on my CPAP machine. It had gone flunky after a power outage and was set to only 7cm rather than my perscribed 13cm. However, while searching for the information using keywords, I had to weed through more than 100 posts from folks warning that anyone posting info on how to set your CPAP machine risked get sued. Fortunately for me some people ignored these warnings and posted instructions anyway. SO HERE’S THE QUESTION: Has anyone here ever personally been sued for posting the instruction on how to set up a CPAP machine? -John

Response:

John Rowe wrote: > SO HERE’S THE QUESTION: Has anyone here ever personally been sued for > posting the instruction on how to set up a CPAP machine?

Oh lord…  Can, open…  worms all over the place…

Response:

On 4 Feb 2004 13:15:05 -0800, johncar…@aol.com (John Rowe) wrote: >I was very happy to find instructions in this group on how to set the >pressure on my CPAP machine. It had gone flunky after a power outage >and was set to only 7cm rather than my perscribed 13cm. >However, while searching for the information using keywords, I had to >weed through more than 100 posts from folks warning that anyone >posting info on how to set your CPAP machine risked get sued. >Fortunately for me some people ignored these warnings and posted >instructions anyway. >SO HERE’S THE QUESTION: Has anyone here ever personally been sued for >posting the instruction on how to set up a CPAP machine? >-John

No.   Common sense in anything on the internet should tell you that comment is from non-professionals and should be taken as such., If you have an issue with your CPAP machine, then obviously you should go to the appropriately qualified organisation to resolve it. If you decide to obtain information and do the work yourself, you can, but common sense tells me that the responsibility lies with you and not the provider of the information.    If someone obtains the information from an internet poster free of charge, they haven’t entered into any commercial arrangement with them, so why would they assume that they have any redress? If you live in a society where those common sense rules don’t apply, then there is something broken about it and I would put it to you that changes are in order. I was reading, with some amusement, the debacle about Janet Jackson’s "exposure" during the Superbowl at the weekend and how NBC is in the frame to be fined millions.  What a nonsense. A friend in California told me that commercials for Cialis were shown during the game as well.    He had little trouble explaining to his young  kids about tits because they had seen them before,  Explaining about erectile dysfunction was a bit more challenging. Perhaps people should be prepared to take a bit more responsibility for their own actions. .andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Response:

the issue isn’t about getting sued……it’s about putting people’s lives at risk… someone just started pointing out you could get sued if someone took your advice and died….. personally i don’t need the thought of being sued to not give out info that could kill someone… in your case, you were setting to your own prescribed pressure, but most want to just play around and could very well end up doing themselves serious harm, just as they would were they to play around unsupervised with prescribed medication – most suppliers won’t hesitate to adjust your pressure should it be needed (as in a situation like yours) but a doc’s prescription is always required so they know what to set the pressure at without causing you harm — Beth in Australia (I am not a medical professional and anything stated in my posts is my opinion only unless specified otherwise) =================== FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://talhost.net/sleep Newsgroup Archives http://talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles Remove my name to reply "John Rowe" <johncar…@aol.com> wrote in message

news:3836b4b6.0402041315.62fb1ee5@posting.google.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I was very happy to find instructions in this group on how to set the > pressure on my CPAP machine. It had gone flunky after a power outage > and was set to only 7cm rather than my perscribed 13cm. > However, while searching for the information using keywords, I had to > weed through more than 100 posts from folks warning that anyone > posting info on how to set your CPAP machine risked get sued. > Fortunately for me some people ignored these warnings and posted > instructions anyway. > SO HERE’S THE QUESTION: Has anyone here ever personally been sued for > posting the instruction on how to set up a CPAP machine? > -John

Response:

"Tal" <goer…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:c001hc$11c3qc$2@ID-148111.news.uni-berlin.de… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > I think anyone offering advice or even comments has a duty of care > > particularly if they claim expertise in an area. Beth your disclaimer is > > probably wise given your knowledge in this area but I don’t how it would > > stand legally if advice given was considered negligent. Also since this is > > international wouldn’t both parties have to be in the same jurisdiction > for > > any action to be taken. > i don’t GIVE medical advice other than to see a doctor – I offer suggestions > on how people can best deal with CPAP issues and  tell people that to me > from what they’ve said it sounds like they may have a sleep disorder and > should see a doctor about it. > My comment below isn’t to "cover myself" it’s simply to point out to anyone > reading my posts that i’m not a medical professional! > and I take offense at your comment "your disclaimer is  probably wise given > your knowledge in this area"  I know more than any doctor i know personally > on the matter and more than a LOT of people that have posted here – for you > to indicate I dont’ know what i’m talking about isn’t particularly nice

You take offence far too easily. I didn’t mean to be offensive and didn’t suggest you did not know what you are talking about but I suppose you could read it that way if you chose to. Nevertheless it would seem to be a wise thing to "provide an explanation of your status" both for information as you point out and whether you agree or not from a legal standpoint. Also if you do know a lot about a subject then it can be argued that you have a duty of care. Martin

Response:

On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 07:07:18 -0000, Martin Basil wrote: >Also since this is international wouldn’t both parties have to >be in the same jurisdiction for any action to be taken.

I am not a lawyer, but corporations (which are treated in many legal situations as if they were a person) in different countries can sue each other.

Response:

> I think anyone offering advice or even comments has a duty of care > particularly if they claim expertise in an area. Beth your disclaimer is > probably wise given your knowledge in this area but I don’t how it would > stand legally if advice given was considered negligent. Also since this is > international wouldn’t both parties have to be in the same jurisdiction for > any action to be taken.

i don’t GIVE medical advice other than to see a doctor – I offer suggestions on how people can best deal with CPAP issues and  tell people that to me from what they’ve said it sounds like they may have a sleep disorder and should see a doctor about it. My comment below isn’t to "cover myself" it’s simply to point out to anyone reading my posts that i’m not a medical professional! and I take offense at your comment "your disclaimer is  probably wise given your knowledge in this area"  I know more than any doctor i know personally on the matter and more than a LOT of people that have posted here – for you to indicate I dont’ know what i’m talking about isn’t particularly nice — Beth in Australia (I am not a medical professional and anything stated in my posts is my opinion only unless specified otherwise) =================== FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://talhost.net/sleep Newsgroup Archives http://talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles

Response:

John Rowe wrote: > I was very happy to find instructions in this group on how to set the > pressure on my CPAP machine. It had gone flunky after a power outage > and was set to only 7cm rather than my perscribed 13cm. > However, while searching for the information using keywords, I had to > weed through more than 100 posts from folks warning that anyone > posting info on how to set your CPAP machine risked get sued. > Fortunately for me some people ignored these warnings and posted > instructions anyway. > SO HERE’S THE QUESTION: Has anyone here ever personally been sued for > posting the instruction on how to set up a CPAP machine? > -John

Somthing to think about: A number of people could have been, but the people who took the advice may have died, because they never requested advice again. It’s a risk some people are willing to take.  Others are not.  It’s a risk to provide such information and an even bigger risk to use such information.  Some of us think there is a good reason that some information is not provided to users.  Others think it is just fine… and that’s just fine. Understanding how an xPAP works is not all that is required to make some of the decisions about setting the pressure(s).  A knowledge of how the brain works, as it controls everything related to sleep, and all the other medical matters, are essential and I’m not sure that anyone posting here has shown such knowledge. And the brain is the least understood organ in the human body. Just something to think about.

Response:

"Dave J. (Scoop0901)" <usenet_u…@comcast.net> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 21:47:00 +0000, Andy Hall <an…@hall.nospam> > wrote: >>If you have an issue with your CPAP machine, then obviously you should >>go to the appropriately qualified organisation to resolve it. >>If you decide to obtain information and do the work yourself, you can, >>but common sense tells me that the responsibility lies with you and >>not the provider of the information.    If someone obtains the >>information from an internet poster free of charge, they haven’t >>entered into any commercial arrangement with them, so why would they >>assume that they have any redress? > That argument would have protected McDonald’s from a multi-million > dollar payout for the woman who burned herself after she bought a cup > of *hot* coffee at the drive-thru window, then "accidentally" spilled > it on herself.

  No offense, but exactly which part of "they haven’t entered into any commercial arrangement with them" didn’t you understand? Your analogy is false, because it says "bought", which means they *did* enter into a commercial arrangement. (Not that I agree with the outcome of the Mc Donald’s case, but that is irrelevant.)

Response:

> That argument would have protected McDonald’s from a multi-million > dollar payout for the woman who burned herself after she bought a cup > of *hot* coffee at the drive-thru window, then "accidentally" spilled > it on herself. > -dave

Actually, McD’s deliberately served coffee scalding hot because it reduced the number of free refills requested.  They were on notice that it injured people and was dangerous because there were many employees with scald injuries before this litigation too.  How much coffee do you fix yourself at home in a paper cup with it scalding hot?  How long could you hold on to a paper cup of scalding coffee just handed you through the car window?  When  a company deliberately puts consumer and employee’s at injury risk to improve the bottom line, litigation is appropriate.  I’m glad they lost this one.

Response:

I think anyone offering advice or even comments has a duty of care particularly if they claim expertise in an area. Beth your disclaimer is probably wise given your knowledge in this area but I don’t how it would stand legally if advice given was considered negligent. Also since this is international wouldn’t both parties have to be in the same jurisdiction for any action to be taken. Martin "Tal" <goer…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:bvru8v$109bck$1@ID-148111.news.uni-berlin.de… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> the issue isn’t about getting sued……it’s about putting people’s lives at > risk… someone just started pointing out you could get sued if someone took > your advice and died….. personally i don’t need the thought of being sued > to not give out info that could kill someone… in your case, you were > setting to your own prescribed pressure, but most want to just play around > and could very well end up doing themselves serious harm, just as they would > were they to play around unsupervised with prescribed medication – most > suppliers won’t hesitate to adjust your pressure should it be needed (as in > a situation like yours) but a doc’s prescription is always required so they > know what to set the pressure at without causing you harm > — > Beth in Australia > (I am not a medical professional and anything stated in my posts is my > opinion only unless specified otherwise) > =================== > FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here > http://talhost.net/sleep > Newsgroup Archives http://talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm > this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles > Remove my name to reply > "John Rowe" <johncar…@aol.com> wrote in message > news:3836b4b6.0402041315.62fb1ee5@posting.google.com… > > I was very happy to find instructions in this group on how to set the > > pressure on my CPAP machine. It had gone flunky after a power outage > > and was set to only 7cm rather than my perscribed 13cm. > > However, while searching for the information using keywords, I had to > > weed through more than 100 posts from folks warning that anyone > > posting info on how to set your CPAP machine risked get sued. > > Fortunately for me some people ignored these warnings and posted > > instructions anyway. > > SO HERE’S THE QUESTION: Has anyone here ever personally been sued for > > posting the instruction on how to set up a CPAP machine? > > -John

Response:

On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 10:11:30 +1100, Tal wrote: >but a doc’s prescription is always required so they >know what to set the pressure at without causing >you harm

At least we haven’t gotten to the point where they’re SPAMMING doctor-free CPAPs like Viagra (or, as the way everyone other than Pfizer spells it, "v.i.a.g.r.a"). <wink>

Response:

On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 21:47:00 +0000, Andy Hall <an…@hall.nospam> wrote: >If you have an issue with your CPAP machine, then obviously you should >go to the appropriately qualified organisation to resolve it. >If you decide to obtain information and do the work yourself, you can, >but common sense tells me that the responsibility lies with you and >not the provider of the information.    If someone obtains the >information from an internet poster free of charge, they haven’t >entered into any commercial arrangement with them, so why would they >assume that they have any redress?

That argument would have protected McDonald’s from a multi-million dollar payout for the woman who burned herself after she bought a cup of *hot* coffee at the drive-thru window, then "accidentally" spilled it on herself. -dave PGP Public Keys: http://scoop0901.net/PGP/PgPkEyS.htm  Send me encrypted email for security!   Support the Department of Homeland Defense    and the Office of Total Information Awareness! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |     Dave Jackson * http://www.scoop0901.net/ * Phila., PA.    | |  ~~eFax: 253-423-7208~~  *  mailto:scoop0901(at)scoop0901.net | |      “A journalist’s job is to comfort the afflicted and     | |  afflict the comfortable."  – Finley Peter Dunne (1867-1936) | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Response:

Beth, ‘Sued’ may be a US vs rest of world issue. In US if you are stupid enough to pour hot coffee into your lap, you can get squillions of dollars from the vendor. This is why we cannot buy hot coffee in the US. If you want hot coffee, you must make it yourself and accept the risk  of being sued by yourself. However, in the US we do have a wonderful document called the Bill of Rights. One of the rights is ‘freedom of speech’. Recent administrations have tried to restict ‘freedom of speech’ to ’speak only those things the current powers deem appropriate’, but it has been only a marginally succesful effort. Freedom of speech in US would include passing on knowledge which you have acquired and the acquisition of which has not included your accepting a ‘non-disclosure’ agreement. The bottom line of the above is that in the US if I’ve not signed an agreement to talk, I can disclose facts with extremely limited liability. If someone has been clever enough to make me sign a non-disclosure agreement, I am vulnerable. Add to that that in the US, most practitioners refuse to provide patients with even a modicum of info about anything lest the practitioner be exposed to a totally out of control tort system, what you come up with is that the only way a US patient can successfully manage his/her treatment for darned near anything is to accept ‘gray market’ options. We cannot (because of tort law) expect competent and conscientious medical care. regards, eric pearson nonono.ericp1.non…@nonono.fuse.net SAD BUT TRUE! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 10:11:30 +1100, "Tal" <goer…@hotmail.com> wrote: >the issue isn’t about getting sued……it’s about putting people’s lives at >risk… someone just started pointing out you could get sued if someone took >your advice and died….. personally i don’t need the thought of being sued >to not give out info that could kill someone… in your case, you were >setting to your own prescribed pressure, but most want to just play around >and could very well end up doing themselves serious harm, just as they would >were they to play around unsupervised with prescribed medication – most >suppliers won’t hesitate to adjust your pressure should it be needed (as in >a situation like yours) but a doc’s prescription is always required so they >know what to set the pressure at without causing you harm

Response:

swalling air with CPAP

Question:

paula wrote: > Just wondering about those of you who swallow air during the night with CPAP > I thought I did,  and I believed a lot of my gas/ flatulence was from me > swallowing air. HAving crohn’s that too goes with a lot of gas and increased gas > often means increased symptoms. > In talking with my sleep doctor however, he said they believe that the air from > the CPAP will not go low enough in the body to produce flatulence, but can cause > burping. I myself have no problems burping.

My neurologist diplomated sleep doc said the same thing.  I posted same some time back, but IIRC, it was not received well here. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> As the real users, I am looking to you in this regard. Do you believe CPAP > pressure can cause flatulence; would a lower pressure produce less? Thanks for > any opinions and experiences.

Response:

> In talking with my sleep doctor however, he said they believe that the air from > the CPAP will not go low enough in the body to produce flatulence, but can cause > burping. I myself have no problems burping.

from personal experience, yes, it CAN cause problems further down the system — Beth in Australia (I am not a medical professional and anything stated in my posts is my opinion only unless specified otherwise) =================== FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://talhost.net/sleep Newsgroup Archives http://talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles duce less? Thanks for – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> any opinions and experiences.

Response:

Paula, I have Crohn’s and I haven’t noticed any differences I would attribute to CPAP. I’ve been on the machine since last August, and I usually "toot" along as I always have. jay On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 08:25:18 GMT, paula <nom…@spam.net> wrote: >Just wondering about those of you who swallow air during the night with CPAP >I thought I did,  and I believed a lot of my gas/ flatulence was from me >swallowing air. HAving crohn’s that too goes with a lot of gas and increased gas >often means increased symptoms. >In talking with my sleep doctor however, he said they believe that the air from >the CPAP will not go low enough in the body to produce flatulence, but can cause >burping. I myself have no problems burping. >As the real users, I am looking to you in this regard. Do you believe CPAP >pressure can cause flatulence; would a lower pressure produce less? Thanks for >any opinions and experiences.

Available at Renaissance E Books: Sidney Durham’s third anthology, TOY PARTY. Get all three at http://www.renebooks.com/Catalog1.htm or read his other stuff at http://www.sidneydurham.com

Response:

"paula" <nom…@spam.net> wrote in message

news:401E03E8.8A30D29E@spam.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Just wondering about those of you who swallow air during the night with CPAP > I thought I did,  and I believed a lot of my gas/ flatulence was from me > swallowing air. HAving crohn’s that too goes with a lot of gas and increased gas > often means increased symptoms. > In talking with my sleep doctor however, he said they believe that the air from > the CPAP will not go low enough in the body to produce flatulence, but can cause > burping. I myself have no problems burping. > As the real users, I am looking to you in this regard. Do you believe CPAP > pressure can cause flatulence; would a lower pressure produce less? Thanks for > any opinions and experiences.

It definitely can cause flatulence.  I wake up burping and farting like a madman.  I did not fart like this when I woke up before the CPAP. On a side note, I don’t swallow the air, it is just forced down my throat. I know this because before I fall asleep I am continually having to burp even though I am just breathing easily.  I’m a little worried that this CPAP at 14 pressure may be hurting something in my digestive tract. Anyone have this same experience? Jim

Response:

paula wrote: > Just wondering about those of you who swallow air during the night with CPAP > I thought I did,  and I believed a lot of my gas/ flatulence was from me > swallowing air. HAving crohn’s that too goes with a lot of gas and increased gas > often means increased symptoms. > In talking with my sleep doctor however, he said they believe that the air from > the CPAP will not go low enough in the body to produce flatulence, but can cause > burping. I myself have no problems burping. > As the real users, I am looking to you in this regard. Do you believe CPAP > pressure can cause flatulence; would a lower pressure produce less? Thanks for > any opinions and experiences.

Paula and all, I just received this link the other night – http://my.webmd.com/content/article/79/96312.htm I would say it does go in at the top and out at the bottom This is from the Dr.’s that would know, look at the sources at the bottom. — Bob Gootee

Response:

Thanks to all who responded. Both the personal experience and the comments from your doctors. much appreciated. Paula

Response:

Just wondering about those of you who swallow air during the night with CPAP I thought I did,  and I believed a lot of my gas/ flatulence was from me swallowing air. HAving crohn’s that too goes with a lot of gas and increased gas often means increased symptoms. In talking with my sleep doctor however, he said they believe that the air from the CPAP will not go low enough in the body to produce flatulence, but can cause burping. I myself have no problems burping. As the real users, I am looking to you in this regard. Do you believe CPAP pressure can cause flatulence; would a lower pressure produce less? Thanks for any opinions and experiences.

Response:

paula wrote: > Just wondering about those of you who swallow air during the night with CPAP > I thought I did,  and I believed a lot of my gas/ flatulence was from me > swallowing air. HAving crohn’s that too goes with a lot of gas and increased gas > often means increased symptoms. > In talking with my sleep doctor however, he said they believe that the air from > the CPAP will not go low enough in the body to produce flatulence,

This is exactly what my diplomated sleep doctor told me. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> but can cause > burping. I myself have no problems burping. > As the real users, I am looking to you in this regard. Do you believe CPAP > pressure can cause flatulence; would a lower pressure produce less? Thanks for > any opinions and experiences.

Response:

Thin and physically fit with apnea???

Question:

In article <vbr4101er4e51dcogmbqfc32okc6jps…@4ax.com>, an…@hall.nospam says… > Keep one thing in mind.  Doctors practise…….. > .andy

What do you call the person who graduated at the bottom of the medical school class??? Doctor. /vic

Response:

Pavel wrote: > I was thin to and no clinical evidence of apnea either, but I *always* > had trouble sleeping since my late teens. I wouldn’t be surprised if > many who currently have apneas have had them longer than they think.

I am with you. My original sleep doctor believed I probably had apnea since birth. I was born 5 weeks early weighing under 4 Lb and was not in hospital nor had any help. I was not suppose to survive I was dx at age 48 with apnea. any wonder it took 2 1/2 years on CPAP before I noticed any result in the fatigue area?

Response:

Anna LeBlanc wrote: > score very high. Yet I had a RDI of 47 events per hour. Within a year I’ll > have my new doctor trained to look for others like me.

that’s the spirit Anna. If you have a doctor willing to listen and learn from his/ her patients, that is a keeper! And other people will be helped thanks to you. A bouquet of lovely red roses fro you!

Response:

"Andy Hall" <an…@hall.nospam> wrote in message

news:vbr4101er4e51dcogmbqfc32okc6jpse4b@4ax.com… : : Keep one thing in mind.  Doctors practise…….. : .andy : Right, but let them practice on someone else, thank you.  I am no rodent (Guinea pig).  FWIW, someone once said that’s it’s a good idea to change doctors every 5 years.

Response:

My Father was… He might have weighed 150lbs soaking wet and was about 5′10". He passed away a couple of years ago.  

Response:

robertlbak…@wmconnect.comspamless (Bob ) wrote in message <news:20040126192002.29815.00002942@mb-m21.wmconnect.com>… > My Father was… He might have weighed 150lbs soaking wet and was about 5′10". > He passed away a couple of years ago.

My apnea was totally brought on by weight gain. I have also suffered from insomnia but that manifested itself in not being sleepy at night and not being able to sleep. Once I did fall asleep I was out till the next morning. I woke up easily and refreshed. I never snored and I was always a quiet sleeper. I just didn’t require that much sleep. Then when I started to gain weight and I got to a certain level about 5 years ago and I started to snore. Then about 3 years ago I started feeling sleepy at night which was strange for me. Then I started feeling I needed an afternoon nap. Then I gained even more weight in a very short period without any significant change in my diet or activity levels. I brougt this up to my doctor and thats what made him order a sleep study.

Response:

elig…@hotmail.com (elliot gainway) wrote in message <news:99061578.0401230133.2a22098d@posting.google.com>… > elvishasri…@hotmail.com (Don) wrote in message <news:bf4ecf5b.0401220934.3f32c4ac@posting.google.com>… > > lolajo…@webtv.net wrote in message <news:11414-400F69A4-120@storefull-3215.bay.webtv.net>… > > > Is there anyone here who is slim and physically fit with sleep apnea? > > I am 6′0" and 160 pounds and my rdi is at 35/hr. Apparently, my apnea > > is caused by a recessed jaw. My pulmonologist said that I could lose > > all the weight in the world, and it still probably wouldn’t improve my > > sleep apnea. > Have they suggested repositioning your jaw? I had an overbite that was > corrected by repositining my jaw with braces.

Elliot,       A Maxillo-facial surgeon did recommend having a bimandibular advancement (moving both jaws forward). So far, I’ve opted against it, as it seems like major surgery. That being said, I am considering somnoplasty, a much less invasive procedure that reduces the tissue at the base of the tongue.

Response:

>       A Maxillo-facial surgeon did recommend having a bimandibular > advancement (moving both jaws forward). So far, I’ve opted against it, > as it seems like major surgery. That being said, I am considering > somnoplasty, a much less invasive procedure that reduces the tissue at > the base of the tongue.

run from that doc as fast as you can……but before you do, search the newsgroup archives http://talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm on UPPP (that’s the somnoplasty sugery you’re referring to) that’ll tell you why.  Some docs refuse to even do UPPP now because the REAL sucess rate is so bad — Beth in Australia (I am not a medical professional and anything stated in my posts is my opinion only unless specified otherwise) =================== FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://talhost.net/sleep Newsgroup Archives http://talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles

Response:

With the new year I have new insurance and a new doctor, whom I met a couple of weeks ago. He said I’m probably the thinest person he’s ever seen with apnea. So I immediately decided I’d have to break him in gradually to the new reality of sleep apnea. Can’t educate him about everything at once. While no one would call me thin I’m no longer much over weight. On the Epworth scale of questions about nodding off while driving, etc, I didn’t score very high. Yet I had a RDI of 47 events per hour. Within a year I’ll have my new doctor trained to look for others like me. Anna in article 4KOPb.23550$Wa.5…@news-server.bigpond.net.au, Kez at kezh…@bigpond.com.au wrote on 1/22/2004 4:46 AM: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Is there anyone here who is slim and physically fit with sleep apnea? > Yep…that would be me…and probably a hundred others here too. > Not falling for the old cliches of apnea are you????

Response:

> With the new year I have new insurance and a new doctor, whom I met a couple > of weeks ago. He said I’m probably the thinest person he’s ever seen with > apnea. So I immediately decided I’d have to break him in gradually to the > new reality of sleep apnea. Can’t educate him about everything at once. > While no one would call me thin I’m no longer much over weight. On the > Epworth scale of questions about nodding off while driving, etc, I didn’t > score very high. Yet I had a RDI of 47 events per hour. Within a year I’ll > have my new doctor trained to look for others like me.

good on’ya! — Beth in Australia (I am not a medical professional and anything stated in my posts is my opinion only unless specified otherwise) =================== FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://talhost.net/sleep Newsgroup Archives http://talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 06:14:52 GMT, "Pavel" <no…@noway.com> wrote: >"Anna LeBlanc" <lebla…@qwest.net> wrote in message >news:BC35DE73.14861%leblancr@qwest.net… >: With the new year I have new insurance and a new doctor, whom I met >a couple >: of weeks ago. He said I’m probably the thinest person he’s ever seen >with >: apnea. So I immediately decided I’d have to break him in gradually >to the >: new reality of sleep apnea. Can’t educate him about everything at >once. >: >That’s scary.  If you have to educate your doctor, that’s like you >having to educate a  car mechanic, but more life and death.  Obviously >he doesn’t have many sleep apnea patients.   IMHO, I would change >doctors if I were you.

Keep one thing in mind.  Doctors practise…….. .andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Response:

elvishasri…@hotmail.com (Don) wrote in message <news:bf4ecf5b.0401220934.3f32c4ac@posting.google.com>… > lolajo…@webtv.net wrote in message <news:11414-400F69A4-120@storefull-3215.bay.webtv.net>… > > Is there anyone here who is slim and physically fit with sleep apnea? > I am 6′0" and 160 pounds and my rdi is at 35/hr. Apparently, my apnea > is caused by a recessed jaw. My pulmonologist said that I could lose > all the weight in the world, and it still probably wouldn’t improve my > sleep apnea.

Have they suggested repositioning your jaw? I had an overbite that was corrected by repositining my jaw with braces.

Response:

lolajo…@webtv.net wrote in message <news:11414-400F69A4-120@storefull-3215.bay.webtv.net>… > Is there anyone here who is slim and physically fit with sleep apnea?

I was thin with no snoring, no apnea. Then I started to gain weight and at a certain level of fatness I started snoring and developed sleep apnea.

Response:

I have the same problem, I’ve to much "Italian" in me. RDI is in the high 40’s. ME "Don" <elvishasri…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:bf4ecf5b.0401220934.3f32c4ac@posting.google.com… > lolajo…@webtv.net wrote in message

<news:11414-400F69A4-120@storefull-3215.bay.webtv.net>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Is there anyone here who is slim and physically fit with sleep apnea? > I am 6′0" and 160 pounds and my rdi is at 35/hr. Apparently, my apnea > is caused by a recessed jaw. My pulmonologist said that I could lose > all the weight in the world, and it still probably wouldn’t improve my > sleep apnea.

Response:

"Anna LeBlanc" <lebla…@qwest.net> wrote in message

news:BC35DE73.14861%leblancr@qwest.net… : With the new year I have new insurance and a new doctor, whom I met a couple : of weeks ago. He said I’m probably the thinest person he’s ever seen with : apnea. So I immediately decided I’d have to break him in gradually to the : new reality of sleep apnea. Can’t educate him about everything at once. : That’s scary.  If you have to educate your doctor, that’s like you having to educate a  car mechanic, but more life and death.  Obviously he doesn’t have many sleep apnea patients.   IMHO, I would change doctors if I were you.

Response:

"elliot gainway" <elig…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:99061578.0401230136.1e4aadb@posting.google.com… : lolajo…@webtv.net wrote in message

<news:11414-400F69A4-120@storefull-3215.bay.webtv.net>… : > Is there anyone here who is slim and physically fit with sleep apnea? : : I was thin with no snoring, no apnea. Then I started to gain weight : and at a certain level of fatness I started snoring and developed : sleep apnea. I was thin to and no clinical evidence of apnea either, but I *always* had trouble sleeping since my late teens. I wouldn’t be surprised if many who currently have apneas have had them longer than they think.

Response:

> Is there anyone here who is slim and physically fit with sleep apnea?

Yep…that would be me…and probably a hundred others here too. Not falling for the old cliches of apnea are you????

Response:

yup joy, eh? <lolajo…@webtv.net> wrote in message

news:11414-400F69A4-120@storefull-3215.bay.webtv.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Is there anyone here who is slim and physically fit with sleep apnea?

Response:

"Kez" <kezh…@bigpond.com.au> wrote in message

news:4KOPb.23550$Wa.5935@news-server.bigpond.net.au… > > Is there anyone here who is slim and physically fit with sleep apnea? > Yep…that would be me…and probably a hundred others here too. > Not falling for the old cliches of apnea are you????

Maybe just trying to make a date with a fit fella?

Response:

lolajo…@webtv.net wrote in message <news:11414-400F69A4-120@storefull-3215.bay.webtv.net>… > Is there anyone here who is slim and physically fit with sleep apnea?

I am 6′0" and 160 pounds and my rdi is at 35/hr. Apparently, my apnea is caused by a recessed jaw. My pulmonologist said that I could lose all the weight in the world, and it still probably wouldn’t improve my sleep apnea.

Response:

Is there anyone here who is slim and physically fit with sleep apnea?

Response:

> Is there anyone here who is slim and physically fit with sleep apnea?

there are plenty of them around… we get posts all the time here from people who are not overweight yet still have apnea.  We’ve had a few posts i can think of from ppl who work out a lot and still have apnea.  While fat CAN play a significant part in apnea, it’s not always the case.  Narrow airways can be a signfiicant factor also, as can other things. Don’t forget about central apnea either, that’s more of a neurological problem than a physical feature based one, yet the symptoms are the same and the concequences of not treating it just as bad. — Beth in Australia (I am not a medical professional and anything stated in my posts is my opinion only unless specified otherwise) =================== FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://talhost.net/sleep Newsgroup Archives http://talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles

Response:

pressure

Question:

It is a good idea to talk to your Doctor frequently during your initial weeks with CPAP.  I have been on CPAP for about a month at a pressure of 9 cm and haven’t noticed tremendous improvement.  I have still had heart palpitations and have had a persistent feeling of pressure on both sides of my head that develops a few hours after waking and then lingers most of the day.  My wife noticed that while I was sleeping with the CPAP I would simply stop breathing for about 25 seconds about once every 5 to 10 breaths.  I had no snoring at all and am not aware of any struggling for breath, so I must have been experiencing central apneas.  In fact, I could feel them coming on as soon as I started to doze off.  I would simply "forget" to breath. (Most likely since my lungs were not emptying enough against the pressure)  The sleep study had indicated purely obstructive apneas, so the "high" pressure setting had apparently caused me to trade obstructive apneas for central apneas.  I just relayed these observations to my neurologist and he subsequently reduced my pressure to 7 cm. We’ll see if that does the trick for me. Harry CPAP titration is far from a perfect science since your lab sleeping conditions may not replicate your conditions at home.  It is really important to stick with the CPAP so that you can assess whether or not your sleep is improving and work with your doctor to make the needed adjustments "Tal" <goer…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:bukdos$iqj2e$1@ID-148111.news.uni-berlin.de… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > How common is a starting pressure of 8 psi? > > I think it should be tad higher, say 10 or 11, since > > a pressure of 13 psi on the somagram report only > > reduced episodes from 41 to 32. 13, was uncomfortably > > high. > I always get a giggle when someone says psi – makes me picture them blowing > up like a balloon and floating off into the sky > there may be a valid reason your pressure wasn’t set higher……one known > problem – and very good reason for having your pressure set properly at a > sleep lab – is that in some people the pressure past a certain point will > create the person to experience central apneas (basically the body > "forgetting" to breathe) > give your prescribed pressure some time – you may not feel instantly better > but over a few weeks or even months you should start to notice improvement. > You can’t base your own pressure needs on "average" or "common" simply > because everybody’s body is individual and has different > requirements…….that’s the whole reason we go through a titration in the > first place – to determine what pressure best suits OUR needs. > Bottom line is, if you’re concerned you weren’t prescribed the right > pressure, ask your doctor why he/she did it that way – it’s the only way > you’ll find out > — > Beth in Australia > (I am not a medical professional and anything stated in my posts is my > opinion only unless specified otherwise) > =================== > FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here > http://talhost.net/sleep > Newsgroup Archives http://talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm > this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles

Response:

"Charles Perrin" <c.l.perrinANTIS…@att.net> wrote in message

news:sqgp00tmsidhvcp26s9vr4307fb9r81okr@4ax.com… > On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 04:14:13 GMT, GARY STONE wrote: > >How common is a starting pressure of 8 psi? > Not common at all: the measurement isn’t in PSI. > The unit used to set a CPAP is "cm of water" (grams per square > centimeter). > CPAP settings are < 1 PSI.

Assuming you meant 8cm I’ve gathered its pretty "common".  Note that "common" doesn’t have much meaning here.  It’s analagous to saying that 5′10" is a common height for males. > >I think it should be tad higher, say 10 or 11, since > >a pressure of 13 psi on the somagram report only > >reduced episodes from 41 to 32. 13, was > >uncomfortably high.

"Uncomfortable" doesn’t have a lot to do with what is determined to be your effective treatment pressure.  Thats analogous to insulin shots being uncomfortable for diabetics. … I’m just full of analogies today -:) …  Titration will determine your optimum treatment pressure.  Then I suppose your doctor might factor compliance into your prescribed pressure but I would expect adjustments of that sort to come after some trial period. You should ask your doctor or the doctor who interpreted the report to explain their observations and recommendation. -Quick – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Given my sister-in-law’s experience, they had to slowly increment her > pressure so she got used to it and it worked. > OTOH, I started at 15 cm and didn’t bat an eye.

Response:

 > How common is a starting pressure of 8 psi? > I think it should be tad higher, say 10 or 11, since > a pressure of 13 psi on the somagram report only > reduced episodes from 41 to 32. 13, was uncomfortably > high.

I always get a giggle when someone says psi – makes me picture them blowing up like a balloon and floating off into the sky there may be a valid reason your pressure wasn’t set higher……one known problem – and very good reason for having your pressure set properly at a sleep lab – is that in some people the pressure past a certain point will create the person to experience central apneas (basically the body "forgetting" to breathe) give your prescribed pressure some time – you may not feel instantly better but over a few weeks or even months you should start to notice improvement. You can’t base your own pressure needs on "average" or "common" simply because everybody’s body is individual and has different requirements…….that’s the whole reason we go through a titration in the first place – to determine what pressure best suits OUR needs. Bottom line is, if you’re concerned you weren’t prescribed the right pressure, ask your doctor why he/she did it that way – it’s the only way you’ll find out — Beth in Australia (I am not a medical professional and anything stated in my posts is my opinion only unless specified otherwise) =================== FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://talhost.net/sleep Newsgroup Archives http://talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles

Response:

Gary wrote: "GARY STONE" <backbeat…@verizon.net> wrote in message

news:pW1Pb.1616$kH2.293@nwrdny01.gnilink.net… > How common is a starting pressure of 8 psi? > I think it should be tad higher, say 10 or 11, since > a pressure of 13 psi on the somagram report only > reduced episodes from 41 to 32. 13, was uncomfortably > high. > backbeat > As you are aperhensive about your pressure.  I have a suggestion for you.

See if you can brower a auto cpap machine fron your DME.  this machine has a computer and it will read your breathing and adjust the pressure according. You will be able to print out a sleep data report and see what pressure the machine uses. I use a auto cpap.  the machine is a respronic remstar auto. note: my spell checker does not work. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> It is a good idea to talk to your Doctor frequently during your initial > weeks with CPAP.  I have been on CPAP for about a month at a pressure of 9 > cm and haven’t noticed tremendous improvement.  I have still had heart > palpitations and have had a persistent feeling of pressure on both sides of > my head that develops a few hours after waking and then lingers most of the > day.  My wife noticed that while I was sleeping with the CPAP I would simply > stop breathing for about 25 seconds about once every 5 to 10 breaths.  I had > no snoring at all and am not aware of any struggling for breath, so I must > have been experiencing central apneas.  In fact, I could feel them coming on > as soon as I started to doze off.  I would simply "forget" to breath. (Most > likely since my lungs were not emptying enough against the pressure)  The > sleep study had indicated purely obstructive apneas, so the "high" pressure > setting had apparently caused me to trade obstructive apneas for central > apneas.  I just relayed these observations to my neurologist and he > subsequently reduced my pressure to 7 cm.

I’d appreciate it if you could keep the newgroup updated on this issue……it’s been an issue of interest here for some time – central apneas caused by pressure too high for an individual user — Beth in Australia (I am not a medical professional and anything stated in my posts is my opinion only unless specified otherwise) =================== FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://talhost.net/sleep Newsgroup Archives http://talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles Remove my name to reply

Response:

How common is a starting pressure of 8 psi? I think it should be tad higher, say 10 or 11, since a pressure of 13 psi on the somagram report only reduced episodes from 41 to 32. 13, was uncomfortably high. backbeat

Response:

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 04:14:13 GMT, GARY STONE wrote: >How common is a starting pressure of 8 psi?

Not common at all: the measurement isn’t in PSI. The unit used to set a CPAP is "cm of water" (grams per square centimeter). CPAP settings are < 1 PSI. >I think it should be tad higher, say 10 or 11, since >a pressure of 13 psi on the somagram report only >reduced episodes from 41 to 32. 13, was >uncomfortably high.

Given my sister-in-law’s experience, they had to slowly increment her pressure so she got used to it and it worked. OTOH, I started at 15 cm and didn’t bat an eye.

Response:

made the plunge

Question:

On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 19:21:32 GMT, "Max" <maxoNOS…@home.se> wrote: >> Damn Rhinocort costs $75 per bottle when you have to pay out of pocket.. what a rip off.. >> Anyway I’ve got secondary insurance that picks up everything my primary does not pay but only for >> the next 4 months.. so it’s kind of now or never for the surgery.

I would not let secondary insurance calculations figure into it to the extent of letting any ENT do the surgery. Most likely your primary insurer and whatever surgeon you ue and you can negotiate  costs, even after 4 months. To me , it is more important to get additional opinions and choose the best qualified surgeon, including consideration of some at University Medcial Centers. Someone said "it is not brain surgery."   Well, you can lose your sense of smell permanently and suffer various other quite serious consequences if you use an inexperienced or unskilled surgeon.   Admittedly these are uncommon results, but do occur….

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 18:35:47 -0500, Don Brady wrote: > On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:28:10 +0000, nos…@nospam.au wrote: >>After suffering for years and using flonase, beconase, rhinocord and saline irrigation I still can’t >>sleep at night because my nose stuffs up.. So I’m going to schedule to have my turbinates trimmed in >>a couple of months.  Not going to let the doctor mess with my septum though.. funny thing is my >>septum shows up perfectly straight on a CT scan but any ENT who actually looks up my nose says my >>septum is crooked.. then they look at the scan and see it is straight. >>I wonder if having my nose cauterized as a child has something to do with this.. >>so how bad a surgery is it if I just have my turbinates trimmed a bit? > It can be relativley minor compared to the ethmoidectomies that are often done. > But it is going to vary with the individual and the surgeon….

Not fun, but you should recoup in a week or so. I had it done and it didn’t help at all, but the quack doctor got to make a boat payment Get a second opinion! I made the mistake of trusting my primary care doc and he recommended a "buddy" of his. Grrrrr.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:52:35 +0000, nospa wrote: > On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:41:51 GMT, in alt.support.sinusitis "Max" <maxoNOS…@home.se> wrote: > On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 18:35:47 -0500, Don Brady wrote: >> On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:28:10 +0000, nos…@nospam.au wrote: >>>After suffering for years and using flonase, beconase, rhinocord and saline irrigation I still can’t >>>sleep at night because my nose stuffs up.. So I’m going to schedule to have my turbinates trimmed in >>>a couple of months.  Not going to let the doctor mess with my septum though.. funny thing is my >>>septum shows up perfectly straight on a CT scan but any ENT who actually looks up my nose says my >>>septum is crooked.. then they look at the scan and see it is straight. >>>I wonder if having my nose cauterized as a child has something to do with this.. >>>so how bad a surgery is it if I just have my turbinates trimmed a bit? >> It can be relativley minor compared to the ethmoidectomies that are often done. >> But it is going to vary with the individual and the surgeon…. >>Not fun, but you should recoup in a week or so. I had it done and it >>didn’t help at all, but the quack doctor got to make a boat payment > Get a second opinion! I made the mistake of trusting my primary care doc > and he recommended a "buddy" of his. Grrrrr. > Ok.. I have had sinus problems for years.  I’ll make sure this guy only plans on trimming the > turbanates.  He did a real nice job on my Grandpa when he needed a lyphe node or some sort of gland > removed from his neck. > I’ve been seeing this ENT for over a year and we tried the beconase, irrigation and anti > hystamines.. well anti hystamines make my sleep disorder unbearable.  The constantly runny nose > keeps my up in addtion to my sleep disorder.. I’m so tired.. > Damn Rhinocort costs $75 per bottle when you have to pay out of pocket.. what a rip off.. > Anyway I’ve got secondary insurance that picks up everything my primary does not pay but only for > the next 4 months.. so it’s kind of now or never for the surgery.

Well it’s not brain surgery, go for it. Sounds like your doc has been patient and tried other methods. BTW, you’ll love the first mucus plug that pours out after they remove the packing–whoa nelly!

Response:

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:28:10 +0000, nos…@nospam.au wrote: >After suffering for years and using flonase, beconase, rhinocord and saline irrigation I still can’t >sleep at night because my nose stuffs up.. So I’m going to schedule to have my turbinates trimmed in >a couple of months.  Not going to let the doctor mess with my septum though.. funny thing is my >septum shows up perfectly straight on a CT scan but any ENT who actually looks up my nose says my >septum is crooked.. then they look at the scan and see it is straight. >I wonder if having my nose cauterized as a child has something to do with this.. >so how bad a surgery is it if I just have my turbinates trimmed a bit?

It can be relativley minor compared to the ethmoidectomies that are often done. But it is going to vary with the individual and the surgeon….

Response:

"Just simple snoring"….now Provigil

Question:

In a previous post, I mentioned my 1st sleep study 2 1/2 years ago. Was told by family doc everything is normal.  Then last fall I found out the report of this study said I had UARS.  Somehow he missed this.  Family doc then says to see ENT who wants to do surgery (naturally). I really don’t want surgery.  Breathe fine through my nose all day long.  I decide to see a real sleep doc, board certfied.  He says I probably need CPAP, but he wants a newer sleep study done.  So I have this 2nd study (in a different lab than the 1st).  I’m thinking once the results of this study are in, I’ll finally get a CPAP.  Lo and behold, the sleep doc says this study came back normal.  Yeah, I asked for a copy of the report and it says ‘Normal’, just simple snoring. So he can’t write a prescription for a CPAP, since the insurance company won’t pay since the report says normal.  I asked the doc what can I do since I’m so tired during the day.  I thought CPAP was the answer.  He prescribes Provigil, 100mg/day.  I’ve been taking it for a week and a half and haven’t seen any improvement yet.  I’ve read a lot of pro and con about this.  But I’ll keep trying it and see what happens. BTW, I tried to see if I could rent a CPAP on my own, just to see if this would really help.  No way.  Got to have a doctor’s prescription. I was really shocked that the 2nd study did not indicate UARS as the 1st one did.  I’ve read that not all labs are able to pick up UARS. Any possibilty that this is what happened? I know I don’t have apnea.  But since the 1st study indicated UARS, and both sleep studies said excessive snoring, and my wife has witnessed the fact that my breathing is labored (she says I’m really working hard to breathe, no wonder I’m tired) wouldn’t a CPAP be of some, if not a lot, of help? Not sure what to do at this point.  For a long time now, I’ve felt that my tiredness was related to some kind of sleep disorder and that CPAP may help.  But, unfortunately, I can’t seem to get there from here.  The good doctors aren’t helping much.  Much appreciate any ideas.  Thanks for listening. Denny

Response:

Most sleep labs do not have the special equipment needed to measure UAR.s. If you sleep reports states that you have unidentified arrousals.  Then some of them might be UAR’s. Best wishes. "Denny" <impala4sp…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:528dc7b4.0401141722.3a1783c4@posting.google.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In a previous post, I mentioned my 1st sleep study 2 1/2 years ago. > Was told by family doc everything is normal.  Then last fall I found > out the report of this study said I had UARS.  Somehow he missed this. >  Family doc then says to see ENT who wants to do surgery (naturally). > I really don’t want surgery.  Breathe fine through my nose all day > long.  I decide to see a real sleep doc, board certfied.  He says I > probably need CPAP, but he wants a newer sleep study done.  So I have > this 2nd study (in a different lab than the 1st).  I’m thinking once > the results of this study are in, I’ll finally get a CPAP.  Lo and > behold, the sleep doc says this study came back normal.  Yeah, I asked > for a copy of the report and it says ‘Normal’, just simple snoring. > So he can’t write a prescription for a CPAP, since the insurance > company won’t pay since the report says normal.  I asked the doc what > can I do since I’m so tired during the day.  I thought CPAP was the > answer.  He prescribes Provigil, 100mg/day.  I’ve been taking it for a > week and a half and haven’t seen any improvement yet.  I’ve read a lot > of pro and con about this.  But I’ll keep trying it and see what > happens. > BTW, I tried to see if I could rent a CPAP on my own, just to see if > this would really help.  No way.  Got to have a doctor’s prescription. > I was really shocked that the 2nd study did not indicate UARS as the > 1st one did.  I’ve read that not all labs are able to pick up UARS. > Any possibilty that this is what happened? > I know I don’t have apnea.  But since the 1st study indicated UARS, > and both sleep studies said excessive snoring, and my wife has > witnessed the fact that my breathing is labored (she says I’m really > working hard to breathe, no wonder I’m tired) wouldn’t a CPAP be of > some, if not a lot, of help? > Not sure what to do at this point.  For a long time now, I’ve felt > that my tiredness was related to some kind of sleep disorder and that > CPAP may help.  But, unfortunately, I can’t seem to get there from > here.  The good doctors aren’t helping much.  Much appreciate any > ideas.  Thanks for listening. > Denny

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"rob" <bnj…@infionline.net> wrote in message <news:OStOb.12937$q4.5344@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>… > Most sleep labs do not have the special equipment needed to measure UAR.s. > If you sleep reports states that you have unidentified arrousals.  Then some > of them might be UAR’s. > Best wishes. > "Denny" <impala4sp…@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:528dc7b4.0401141722.3a1783c4@posting.google.com… > > In a previous post, I mentioned my 1st sleep study 2 1/2 years ago. > > Was told by family doc everything is normal.  Then last fall I found > > out the report of this study said I had UARS.  Somehow he missed this. > >  Family doc then says to see ENT who wants to do surgery (naturally). > > I really don’t want surgery.  Breathe fine through my nose all day > > long.  I decide to see a real sleep doc, board certfied.  He says I > > probably need CPAP, but he wants a newer sleep study done.  So I have > > this 2nd study (in a different lab than the 1st).  I’m thinking once > > the results of this study are in, I’ll finally get a CPAP.  Lo and > > behold, the sleep doc says this study came back normal.  Yeah, I asked > > for a copy of the report and it says ‘Normal’, just simple snoring. > > So he can’t write a prescription for a CPAP, since the insurance > > company won’t pay since the report says normal.  I asked the doc what > > can I do since I’m so tired during the day.  I thought CPAP was the > > answer.  He prescribes Provigil, 100mg/day.  I’ve been taking it for a > > week and a half and haven’t seen any improvement yet.  I’ve read a lot > > of pro and con about this.  But I’ll keep trying it and see what > > happens. > > BTW, I tried to see if I could rent a CPAP on my own, just to see if > > this would really help.  No way.  Got to have a doctor’s prescription. > > I was really shocked that the 2nd study did not indicate UARS as the > > 1st one did.  I’ve read that not all labs are able to pick up UARS. > > Any possibilty that this is what happened? > > I know I don’t have apnea.  But since the 1st study indicated UARS, > > and both sleep studies said excessive snoring, and my wife has > > witnessed the fact that my breathing is labored (she says I’m really > > working hard to breathe, no wonder I’m tired) wouldn’t a CPAP be of > > some, if not a lot, of help? > > Not sure what to do at this point.  For a long time now, I’ve felt > > that my tiredness was related to some kind of sleep disorder and that > > CPAP may help.  But, unfortunately, I can’t seem to get there from > > here.  The good doctors aren’t helping much.  Much appreciate any > > ideas.  Thanks for listening. > > Denny

Thought that might be the case.  Thanks Denny

Response:

impala4sp…@hotmail.com (Denny) wrote: >He prescribes Provigil, 100mg/day.  I’ve been taking it for a >week and a half and haven’t seen any improvement yet.  I’ve read a lot >of pro and con about this.  But I’ll keep trying it and see what >happens.

I have a prescription for 300mg per day and see no effect from it. I don’t bother taking it anymore. Dick Evans

Response:

Richard Evans <info…@mindspring.com> wrote in message <news:mr2910tc8lqcs6rtu3gk8qusi9bopll49m@4ax.com>… > impala4sp…@hotmail.com (Denny) wrote: > >He prescribes Provigil, 100mg/day.  I’ve been taking it for a > >week and a half and haven’t seen any improvement yet.  I’ve read a lot > >of pro and con about this.  But I’ll keep trying it and see what > >happens. > I have a prescription for 300mg per day and see no effect from it. I > don’t bother taking it anymore.

The effectiveness varies from person to person.  I’m taking 100mg a day and I notice a world of difference.

Response:

I took 400mg per day, and very minimal effect….  Taking 15mg time-released Dexedrine now, and only minimal effect again….  Tried the 5mg Dexedrine every few hours, but I found I had to get drop-dead tired to realize that, ‘hey, you need to take another pill….’  so it was up and down all day…. Jody lazy man wrote: > Richard Evans <info…@mindspring.com> wrote in message <news:mr2910tc8lqcs6rtu3gk8qusi9bopll49m@4ax.com>… > > impala4sp…@hotmail.com (Denny) wrote: > > >He prescribes Provigil, 100mg/day.  I’ve been taking it for a > > >week and a half and haven’t seen any improvement yet.  I’ve read a lot > > >of pro and con about this.  But I’ll keep trying it and see what > > >happens. > > I have a prescription for 300mg per day and see no effect from it. I > > don’t bother taking it anymore. > The effectiveness varies from person to person.  I’m taking 100mg a > day and I notice a world of difference.

– "Sorry for the inconvenience, but I’ve inserted a spam-filter in my email address. When you hit ‘reply’ to email me, you must "Take out the TRASH…." or your email will bounce back to you…"

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -J*O*d*Y <"jodeez(**TRASH**)stuff"@sympatico.ca> wrote in message <news:40171B22.AAEE90A@sympatico.ca>… > I took 400mg per day, and very minimal effect….  Taking 15mg time-released Dexedrine now, and only minimal > effect again….  Tried the 5mg Dexedrine every few hours, but I found I had to get drop-dead tired to realize > that, ‘hey, you need to take another pill….’  so it was up and down all day…. > Jody > lazy man wrote: > > Richard Evans <info…@mindspring.com> wrote in message <news:mr2910tc8lqcs6rtu3gk8qusi9bopll49m@4ax.com>… > > > impala4sp…@hotmail.com (Denny) wrote: > > > >He prescribes Provigil, 100mg/day.  I’ve been taking it for a > > > >week and a half and haven’t seen any improvement yet.  I’ve read a lot > > > >of pro and con about this.  But I’ll keep trying it and see what > > > >happens. > > > I have a prescription for 300mg per day and see no effect from it. I > > > don’t bother taking it anymore. > > The effectiveness varies from person to person.  I’m taking 100mg a > > day and I notice a world of difference.

Thanks everyone for the replies.  Since I didn’t notice any improvement, I’ve stopped taking it.  Figured no sense in taking a drug if it’s not working. Denny

Response:

Adjusting Pressure

Question:

It would logically seem that setting the CPAP pressure incorrectly could lead to some really bad results. This is obvious from trying it out and finding that too high = blow ear drums, etc; and too low = no help for your OSA. However, when we have little choice but to do it ourselves, I guess we must do that…. carefully and in small steps, ay? Buddy "Charles Perrin" <c.l.perrinANTIS…@att.net> wrote in message

news:ji9fvv4otuntedpfn8d80chkb5302j67oo@4ax.com… On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 00:31:54 GMT, Allen wrote: >I would advise anyone who can’t keep the mask on to >experiment with pressure settings.

I would advise doing it only with medical guidance…. YANAD (You Are Not A Doctor) >I don’t see what problems can arise doing this.

IANAD (I Am Not A Doctor) but I know what they say about the subject. Central sleep apneas, for one. Cardiac arrythmias, for another. Both can be life-threatening. When they run the pressure up and down in the sleep lab, the tech knows CPR for a very good reason.

Response:

"BuddyT" <h.till…@comcast.net> wrote in message

news:us2dncb3isT_CGCi4p2dnA@comcast.com… > It would logically seem that setting the CPAP pressure incorrectly could > lead to some really bad results. This is obvious from trying it out and > finding that too high = blow ear drums, etc; and too low = no help for your > OSA. > However, when we have little choice but to do it ourselves, I guess we must > do that…. carefully and in small steps, ay? > Buddy > ——————————————————

Nay, Do some research. Blowing out your eardrums isn’t one of the dangers of too high settings. Hal S. ————————————————————————— – ——— – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Charles Perrin" <c.l.perrinANTIS…@att.net> wrote in message > news:ji9fvv4otuntedpfn8d80chkb5302j67oo@4ax.com… > On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 00:31:54 GMT, Allen wrote: > >I would advise anyone who can’t keep the mask on to > >experiment with pressure settings. > I would advise doing it only with medical guidance…. > YANAD (You Are Not A Doctor) > >I don’t see what problems can arise doing this. > IANAD (I Am Not A Doctor) but I know what they say about the subject. > Central sleep apneas, for one. Cardiac arrythmias, for another. Both > can be life-threatening. > When they run the pressure up and down in the sleep lab, the tech > knows CPR for a very good reason.

Response:

Based on the discussion in this thread I now have a manometer to measure the pressure from the Respironics Synchrony S/T. My prescription in for 20/20.  This morning I measured a pressures of approximately 15 and 10 at the swivel on the mask.  The question I now have is what to do next. 1)  Should I adjust the pressure up so the manometer meets my      prescription? 2)  Should I measure and adjust the pressure at the output of      the BiPAP to my prescription? 3)  Should I call the DME since the BC I have rents the equipment? Other ideas? Thanks in advance. Bob

Response:

"Robert Claeson" <rclae…@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:SAiLb.687$Ix.21@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net… > Based on the discussion in this thread I now have a manometer > to measure the pressure from the Respironics Synchrony S/T. > My prescription in for 20/20.  This morning I measured a pressures > of approximately 15 and 10 at the swivel on the mask.  The question I > now have is what to do next. > 1)  Should I adjust the pressure up so the manometer meets my >      prescription? > 2)  Should I measure and adjust the pressure at the output of >      the BiPAP to my prescription? > 3)  Should I call the DME since the BC I have rents the equipment?

If the equipment is rented call the DME. I would expect them to tell you to drop by and they will check/adjust the pressure. In my limited experience (twice) the Apria (ugh) RT used a digital manometer right off the machine. -Quick

Response:

On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 01:28:42 GMT, Allen wrote: >What are you basing this on?  What studies have shown this?   >I would like to find out more about this.

Read the warnings about nasal CPAP in the Merck Manual for starters (it does have a few $64 words that us IANADs need to look up).

Response:

> What are you basing this on?  What studies have shown this?  I would > like to find out more about this.

there have been studies, but none that i’ve found printed on the net……this issue comes up a lot and we’re not just saying this for the fun of it. — Beth in Australia (I am not a medical professional and anything stated in my posts is my opinion only unless specified otherwise) =================== FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://talhost.net/sleep Newsgroup Archives http://talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles Remove my name to reply

Response:

I had been taking the mask off every night for the last year.  My last visit in the spring to the doctor resulted in the advice that I would get used to it.  By adusting the pressure from 4 to 5 I have woken up in the morning with the mask on and feel much better.  I would advise anyone who can’t keep the mask on to experiment with pressure settings. I don’t see what problems can arise doing this. Allen

Response:

> I had been taking the mask off every night for the last year.  My last > visit in the spring to the doctor resulted in the advice that I would > get used to it.  By adusting the pressure from 4 to 5 I have woken up > in the morning with the mask on and feel much better.  I would advise > anyone who can’t keep the mask on to experiment with pressure settings. > I don’t see what problems can arise doing this.

That’s because ufortunately, like many others, you don’t know enough.  In actual fact, adjusting the pressure can be a really stupid thing to do. Pressure too high for your individual needs can cause central apnea, which can in turn cause death…….so perhaps you should revise your advice to people — Beth in Australia (I am not a medical professional and anything stated in my posts is my opinion only unless specified otherwise) =================== FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://talhost.net/sleep Newsgroup Archives http://talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles Remove my name to reply

Response:

On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 00:31:54 GMT, Allen wrote: >I would advise anyone who can’t keep the mask on to >experiment with pressure settings.

I would advise doing it only with medical guidance…. YANAD (You Are Not A Doctor) >I don’t see what problems can arise doing this.

IANAD (I Am Not A Doctor) but I know what they say about the subject. Central sleep apneas, for one. Cardiac arrythmias, for another. Both can be life-threatening. When they run the pressure up and down in the sleep lab, the tech knows CPR for a very good reason.

Response:

In article <bt86aq$44u5…@ID-148111.news.uni-berlin.de>, Tal wrote: >> I had been taking the mask off every night for the last year.  My last >> visit in the spring to the doctor resulted in the advice that I would >> get used to it.  By adusting the pressure from 4 to 5 I have woken up >> in the morning with the mask on and feel much better.  I would advise >> anyone who can’t keep the mask on to experiment with pressure settings. >> I don’t see what problems can arise doing this. > That’s because ufortunately, like many others, you don’t know enough.  In > actual fact, adjusting the pressure can be a really stupid thing to do. > Pressure too high for your individual needs can cause central apnea, which

CSA is only an issue at pressures above 10cm, according to Resmed.  This poster has a pressure much lower than that so it’s not an issue for him. > can in turn cause death…….so perhaps you should revise your advice to >

people Can CSA cause death?  I haven’t heard about any such cases.   BTW when I have a little nasal congestion my autopap sets my high pressure a full 1 cm above the high setting when I do not.  So if it is true that only 1 cm pressure too high can kill you it would seem that having a little nasal congestion during your titration can kill you later on when you don’t have congestion.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Tal wrote: > > I had been taking the mask off every night for the last year.  My > > last visit in the spring to the doctor resulted in the advice that > > I would get used to it.  By adusting the pressure from 4 to 5 I > > have woken up in the morning with the mask on and feel much better. > > I would advise anyone who can’t keep the mask on to experiment with > > pressure settings.  I don’t see what problems can arise doing this. > That’s because ufortunately, like many others, you don’t know enough. > In actual fact, adjusting the pressure can be a really stupid thing > to do.  Pressure too high for your individual needs can cause central > apnea, which can in turn cause death…….so perhaps you should > revise your advice to people > — > Beth in Australia > (I am not a medical professional and anything stated in my posts is my > opinion only unless specified otherwise) > =================== > FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here > http://talhost.net/sleep > Newsgroup Archives http://talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm > this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles > Remove my name to reply

What are you basing this on?  What studies have shown this?  I would like to find out more about this.

Response: