www.phobia-anxiety.com
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are you afraid of riding elevators–being alone–driving on highways–heights? Discover the keys to overcoming your fears and phobias by accessing the web page of the Anxiety and Phobia Clinic of White Plains Hospital at www.phobia-anxiety.com. -snipped the rest of the advertisement- We get a lot of advertisements like this one (about one or two a month) here on alt.support.depression (ASD). …<snipped for space Dear Mick, <snipped for space…you need to understand that those of us who are active in these newsgroups are constantly barraged with ads and spams. Being active in only one group listed here – alt.support.sleep-disorder – I have a question. How did you choose our group to include in your list? ….<snipped for space…most, if not all, of the readers have absolutely no interest in or use for your site about anxiety disorders. If we did, we would most likely also subscribe to another group for that interest….<snipped for space
Dear Lauren, et al… My question is how did all of you end up in *our* newsgroup, alt.support.ibs????? Karen.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are you afraid of riding elevators–being alone–driving on highways–heights? Discover the keys to overcoming your fears and phobias by accessing the web page of the Anxiety and Phobia Clinic of White Plains Hospital at www.phobia-anxiety.com. -snipped the rest of the advertisement- We get a lot of advertisements like this one (about one or two a month) here on alt.support.depression (ASD). While the subject matter is certainly appropriate for ASD, and while I am sure this is a good program that can really help people, it is my personal opinion that ASD is not free yellow pages for every doctor, clinic, hospital, drug company, etcetera. I usually respond to such advertisements. Sometimes with much anger, sometimes with the canned response I have included below, sometimes with both. Before I respond to this, let me say that I am the web master for www.phobia-anxiety.com, and not someone working for the Anxiety and Phobia clinic itself, so I am not a doctor and might not know anymore than the average lay person about phobias and anxieties (outside of what I have learned while creating the web page). I am also completely new to this newsgroup. Having said that, I don’t really see what you’re complaint is. The people at the phobia clinic provided me with quite a lot of testimonials about the success their program has. I particularly noted the emotion with which people were thanking the clinic for helping them deal with something that aparently they previously were unable to get any help for. Yes, the post was an advertisement for the web page, but I was under the impression that this newsgroup would be populated by at least some people who are looking for exactly this kind of help. The post was clearly marked www.phobia-anxiety.com, so I don’t really think you could consider it spam. Anyway, it was my idea to post that message to the various different newsgroups, and I’d hate to do so in an inappropriate way, particularly since the people who work for the clinic have trusted me to do a little publicity about the web page for them. Can you suggest some other way I should have gone about this? Outside of getting the web page listed with Yahoo, etc., posting an announcement about the creation of the web page on these newsgroups seems like the obvious thing to do. The post was not misleading, and I thought the subject made it clear that the post was about a web page. Aren’t a lot of people who frequent these newsgroups doing so specifically because they are seeking help with exactly the kinds of problems the clinic addresses? Dear Mick, I followed this little thread and crossposting with interest. I understand your point, but you need to understand that those of us who are active in these newsgroups are constantly barraged with ads and spams. Being active in only one group listed here – alt.support.sleep-disorder – I have a question. How did you choose our group to include in your list? If you followed this group and had any interest in sleep disorders, you would know that most, if not all, of the readers have absolutely no interest in or use for your site about anxiety disorders. If we did, we would most likely also subscribe to another group for that interest. It is irritating to constantly see ads/spams for things that have no relation to our group, and it bothers me that you feel you can justify your spamming (unsolicited advertisement) to our group. -Lauren Ero I can see how that would annoy someone, I know it annoys me. But I figured that people could be having sleep problems that relate to OCD, panic, phobias, anxiety, especially anxiety. Couldn’t anxiety problems cause sleep problems? Furthermore, not everybody has access to every newsgroup, maybe their news provider doesn’t subscribe to it, or possibly they don’t know it exists. Anyway, that’s the reason I posted to so many newsgroups. Really, are you sure that "most, if not all, of the readers have absolutely no interest in or use for your site about anxiety disorders." Can you speak for them?
I cannot speak for all the people who subscribe to this sleep disorders newsgroup, and I hope that lots of them will respond to you and express their opinion. But I know from actively following and participating in this group for quite a while, that most of the people here have sleep disorders that are biologically based, and this is our primary difficulty. If my primary problem was anxiety and secondary to that I have difficulty sleeping, I would seek a different newsgroup. I, for one, resent the association of sleep disorders with anxiety, which perseverates the mistaken assumption that we have a sleep disorder because we are anxious or phobic, or that we have some mental weakness that causes our disorder. Although it’s a stretch, I can see that possibly, just maybe, there are subscribers to this sleep disorders group who are in need of help for anxiety or phobias. I find it hard to believe that they would not be active in another newsgroup as well, such as one of the other ones you listed in your ad, since very few of us who regularly "live here" would have any personal experience to lend any support to them. -Lauren Ero
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Anyway, that’s the reason I posted to so many newsgroups. Really, are you sure that "most, if not all, of the readers have absolutely no interest in or use for your site about anxiety disorders." Can you speak for them?
shall we take a vote? Like this kind of posting? Yes/No My answer: No
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Anyway, that’s the reason I posted to so many newsgroups. Really, are you sure that "most, if not all, of the readers have absolutely no interest in or use for your site about anxiety disorders." Can you speak for them? shall we take a vote? Like this kind of posting? Yes/No My answer: No
My personal answer is no, but I can see Mick’s point. As he stated that he doesn’t really know anything about phobias/anxieties, he tried to post to groups that *seemed* reasonable to him. The problem lies in the fact that he *doesn’t* know what groups are truly reasonable. BTW, Mick, the sponsor may have had many moving testimonials, but I bet they didn’t show you any letters from unhappy clients! And who really knows what the proportion of happy to unhappy clients is? That is why people here are upset with the posting (IMHO). leslie — So I’m a loser, baby, why don’t you kill me? – Beck
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: shall we take a vote? : : Like this kind of posting? Yes/No : : My answer: No : : : My answer is also NO. : Looks like no one wants this, — Please help Stomp out SPAM! Kent To reply delete SPAM.
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shall we take a vote? Like this kind of posting? Yes/No My answer: No
My answer is also NO.
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Anyway, that’s the reason I posted to so many newsgroups. Really, are you sure that "most, if not all, of the readers have absolutely no interest in or use for your site about anxiety disorders." Can you speak for them?
Dear Mick, I would like to speak for myself, and that is this: I see nothing offensive about your post whatsoever. In fact, it is one of the more support-oriented posts I have seen in these normally flaming newsgroups. All of the groups you cross-posted to seem to have been chosen carefully and are germaine to the subject of the post. I do not consider it a spam by any means, such as those ads for psychic hotlines posted to every group in the world. Your post merely pointed to a web site for support for a specific disorder that might be of help to someone reading any one of the groups it was sent to. People can chose to read it or not just by glancing at the title of the post. Some people may be looking for exactly such a site, and will choose to visit it if they wish. Instead, a long thread of complaints was generated by people who feel they have a right to control who posts what to which newsgroup. If you were just a spammer with an annoying ad, you would have cross-posted it to a thousand other groups as well, and you would have disguised your name and return address. It’s hard for me to understand why anyone would get so angry at the efforts of someone who is just trying to offer help and support. I am astonished at the person who said "why are you posting to *our* newsgroup?" Who the hell owns a newsgroup, anyway? My opinion may not count here, but I am far more annoyed at the people whining about your post than I am by the post itself. I wish the people posting their vociferous complaints would devote their negative energies to writing flames in reply to the posts about naked teen jpgs and get-rich-quick schemes instead, if they must, and leave helpful people like Mick alone. My vote: yes, I like postings that point to web sites of related interest such as this. I have the choice of reading them or deleting them, and this one I chose to read. Nobody forced me. And I was not offended. It was requested that others give their opinions, so I am giving mine. If the person who called the vote was just soliciting flames against you, I apologize for missing their point, but I think you have the right to point to your web site. I am just a reader of newsgroups and I have an interest in the area of psychological support. I was not offended or annoyed by your post in the slightest. I commend you for sticking to your guns and trying to help people out there any way you can. Keep up the good work. Sunny
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shall we take a vote? Like this kind of posting? Yes/No My answer: No My answer is also NO.
NO NO NO. Can I vote twice? Leslie The opinions expressed are those of the author and *not* those of Harvard University. ***Note: Remove the "xx." before usa1.com in address before e-mailing. Just trying to foil the spammers…
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – shall we take a vote? Like this kind of posting? Yes/No My answer: No My answer is also NO. NO NO NO. Can I vote twice? Leslie
No more of this kind of Spam or any other. Joyce H.
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: : Actually, I did cross-post a little shamelessly. Little? : I posted to : sci.med.psychobiology only because it sounds relevant, although that : could just be because I don’t know what psychobiology is. You obviously don’t know what psychobiology is considering the way you’ve been promoting your 8-week CBT program to people suffering severe panic attacks. Not only is such a program unlikely to help such people, but it could potentially worsen their situation emotionally and financially. Don’t you realize that by naively waltzing around handing out advice about medical disorders which you know nothing about that you could be hurting people? : I figured it : had to do with the interplay between biology and psychology, and anxiety : and phobia problems, being treated with both medicine and therapy, would : be relevant to that. As long as I’m in confession mode, I’ll admit to : not knowint what "ibs" even stands for. Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS). : I only know that panic attacks : are often symptoms of underlying depression, and such patients also tend : to have sleep disorders and appetite problems, Panic disorders are often associated with depression; but depression may or may not have a causal relation. As for the associated sleep and appetite problems, such things often indicate a serotonin imbalance. : and so I figured it made : sense to post to as many "support" groups as possible. No, posting to as many "support" groups as possible is called spamming and you can loose your access to the internet for such net abuse. : Anyway, my : future posts will be more groups specific. I wonder if people think : that my responding to posts such as the one I am now responding to : constitutes more spam or not. No, responding to individual posts is not spamming, unless you continue abusing the opportunity to futher promote your site. Support groups are not free billboards for selling your product. – Arthur
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Try submitting the URL to Submit It! if you want publicity. It works quite well. ASD gets a lot of these crossposts. — Doris Ostendorf http://qlink.queensu.ca/~3do5/ "Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you." C.G. Jung
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are you afraid of riding elevators–being alone–driving on highways–heights? Discover the keys to overcoming your fears and phobias by accessing the web page of the Anxiety and Phobia Clinic of White Plains Hospital at www.phobia-anxiety.com. -snipped the rest of the advertisement- We get a lot of advertisements like this one (about one or two a month) here on alt.support.depression (ASD). While the subject matter is certainly appropriate for ASD, and while I am sure this is a good program that can really help people, it is my personal opinion that ASD is not free yellow pages for every doctor, clinic, hospital, drug company, etcetera. I usually respond to such advertisements. Sometimes with much anger, sometimes with the canned response I have included below, sometimes with both. Before I respond to this, let me say that I am the web master for www.phobia-anxiety.com, and not someone working for the Anxiety and Phobia clinic itself, so I am not a doctor and might not know anymore than the average lay person about phobias and anxieties (outside of what I have learned while creating the web page). I am also completely new to this newsgroup. Having said that, I don’t really see what you’re complaint is. The people at the phobia clinic provided me with quite a lot of testimonials about the success their program has. I particularly noted the emotion with which people were thanking the clinic for helping them deal with something that aparently they previously were unable to get any help for. Yes, the post was an advertisement for the web page, but I was under the impression that this newsgroup would be populated by at least some people who are looking for exactly this kind of help. The post was clearly marked www.phobia-anxiety.com, so I don’t really think you could consider it spam. Anyway, it was my idea to post that message to the various different newsgroups, and I’d hate to do so in an inappropriate way, particularly since the people who work for the clinic have trusted me to do a little publicity about the web page for them. Can you suggest some other way I should have gone about this? Outside of getting the web page listed with Yahoo, etc., posting an announcement about the creation of the web page on these newsgroups seems like the obvious thing to do. The post was not misleading, and I thought the subject made it clear that the post was about a web page. Aren’t a lot of people who frequent these newsgroups doing so specifically because they are seeking help with exactly the kinds of problems the clinic addresses?
Dear Mick, I followed this little thread and crossposting with interest. I understand your point, but you need to understand that those of us who are active in these newsgroups are constantly barraged with ads and spams. Being active in only one group listed here – alt.support.sleep-disorder – I have a question. How did you choose our group to include in your list? If you followed this group and had any interest in sleep disorders, you would know that most, if not all, of the readers have absolutely no interest in or use for your site about anxiety disorders. If we did, we would most likely also subscribe to another group for that interest. It is irritating to constantly see ads/spams for things that have no relation to our group, and it bothers me that you feel you can justify your spamming (unsolicited advertisement) to our group. -Lauren Ero
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are you afraid of riding elevators–being alone–driving on highways–heights? Discover the keys to overcoming your fears and phobias by accessing the web page of the Anxiety and Phobia Clinic of White Plains Hospital at www.phobia-anxiety.com. -snipped the rest of the advertisement- We get a lot of advertisements like this one (about one or two a month) here on alt.support.depression (ASD). While the subject matter is certainly appropriate for ASD, and while I am sure this is a good program that can really help people, it is my personal opinion that ASD is not free yellow pages for every doctor, clinic, hospital, drug company, etcetera. I usually respond to such advertisements. Sometimes with much anger, sometimes with the canned response I have included below, sometimes with both. Before I respond to this, let me say that I am the web master for www.phobia-anxiety.com, and not someone working for the Anxiety and Phobia clinic itself, so I am not a doctor and might not know anymore than the average lay person about phobias and anxieties (outside of what I have learned while creating the web page). I am also completely new to this newsgroup. Having said that, I don’t really see what you’re complaint is. The people at the phobia clinic provided me with quite a lot of testimonials about the success their program has. I particularly noted the emotion with which people were thanking the clinic for helping them deal with something that aparently they previously were unable to get any help for. Yes, the post was an advertisement for the web page, but I was under the impression that this newsgroup would be populated by at least some people who are looking for exactly this kind of help. The post was clearly marked www.phobia-anxiety.com, so I don’t really think you could consider it spam. Anyway, it was my idea to post that message to the various different newsgroups, and I’d hate to do so in an inappropriate way, particularly since the people who work for the clinic have trusted me to do a little publicity about the web page for them. Can you suggest some other way I should have gone about this? Outside of getting the web page listed with Yahoo, etc., posting an announcement about the creation of the web page on these newsgroups seems like the obvious thing to do. The post was not misleading, and I thought the subject made it clear that the post was about a web page. Aren’t a lot of people who frequent these newsgroups doing so specifically because they are seeking help with exactly the kinds of problems the clinic addresses? Dear Mick, I followed this little thread and crossposting with interest. I understand your point, but you need to understand that those of us who are active in these newsgroups are constantly barraged with ads and spams. Being active in only one group listed here – alt.support.sleep-disorder – I have a question. How did you choose our group to include in your list? If you followed this group and had any interest in sleep disorders, you would know that most, if not all, of the readers have absolutely no interest in or use for your site about anxiety disorders. If we did, we would most likely also subscribe to another group for that interest. It is irritating to constantly see ads/spams for things that have no relation to our group, and it bothers me that you feel you can justify your spamming (unsolicited advertisement) to our group. -Lauren Ero
I can see how that would annoy someone, I know it annoys me. But I figured that people could be having sleep problems that relate to OCD, panic, phobias, anxiety, especially anxiety. Couldn’t anxiety problems cause sleep problems? Furthermore, not everybody has access to every newsgroup, maybe their news provider doesn’t subscribe to it, or possibly they don’t know it exists. Anyway, that’s the reason I posted to so many newsgroups. Really, are you sure that "most, if not all, of the readers have absolutely no interest in or use for your site about anxiety disorders." Can you speak for them?
Response:
Are you afraid of riding elevators–being alone–driving on highways–heights? Discover the keys to overcoming your fears and phobias by accessing the web page of the Anxiety and Phobia Clinic of White Plains Hospital at www.phobia-anxiety.com.
-snipped the rest of the advertisement- We get a lot of advertisements like this one (about one or two a month) here on alt.support.depression (ASD). While the subject matter is certainly appropriate for ASD, and while I am sure this is a good program that can really help people, it is my personal opinion that ASD is not free yellow pages for every doctor, clinic, hospital, drug company, etcetera. I usually respond to such advertisements. Sometimes with much anger, sometimes with the canned response I have included below, sometimes with both. What do you folks in ASD and in other support groups think about this kind of advertisement?? People reading this in alt.psychology and rec.travel.air can reply too if they want. 
Sincerely Stewart _______ The following "canned response" is simply my personal opinion and expression. It is not posted as any sort of representation of what others here think. Some here agree with me on one or more points, while many others disagree with me……. You have posted a message to the usenet newsgroup alt.support.depression (ASD). If you are new to this newsgroup, then "Welcome to the group that nobody (in their right mind) wants to join". In the spirit of "real life" support groups, this is often a small and intimate place on the Internet where people can gather together to share their personal experiences. It is a place that many of us wish we did not feel compelled to frequent, but for which we are often quiet grateful. Everyone is welcome to read what others have written (to lurk as it is called). Please post responses to others if you think you have something to say that might help them or yourself. And, of course, we would love to hear a question, comment, rant, or story of your own. This newsgroup is a completely open forum that is not "moderated" or "staffed" by anyone. This means that you, me, and the person we BOTH hate, can post whatever they want here. Although "professionals" of all sorts frequent this group, the opinions expressed here are made by people, not by God, so you might want to consider a second opinion. Because this group is made up of real people, with all sorts of different opinions, it is often somewhat "volatile". But you will also find a lot of caring people here that are seriously trying to get a grip on their depression. There are also a lot of people here that want to share their experiences with others. Personally, it took me several years to realize that the deaths of my father and brother had sent me into a tailspin of depression. I am happy to say that antidepressant medication and psychotherapy are helping. I hope you find something here among the throng that helps you. If you feel compelled to make a request of the group that goes beyond something that would be of benefit to you emotionally, then please reconsider your post. If you want to request that readers of ASD help you with a project that is only vaguely or indirectly related to your own personal journey, please reconsider your request. Most of us are working hard to keep our heads above water, or we are trying to help others swim to shore. We could sure use your help right here. If you think the people who read this group would benefit from what you know, then please consider providing that information here. If you feel that you must advertise the experience or information that you posses because it cannot be provided here, then please consider whether or not this is really an appropriate place to advertise. While this is certainly an appropriate place for ANY information related to depression, please remember that there are LOTS of people out there with equally worthy projects. If they all post here, then this will soon be a place full of pointers to a lot of worthwhile information, but it will cease to be a place of much support. Often a good way to advertise is to respond to a personal post, and place your advertisement in your signature file. I have sent this reply to you personally. I have also posted it to the group so that anyone can read it if they want to. Please keep an eye out for the depression/ASD FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions), the User Guide to ASD, and the ASD Flame Retardant, which are all posted from time to time on this newsgroup. You can also find these and other important tidbits of information about this newsgroup at the world wide web site http://www.lava.net/~dewilson/asd/resources.html Good luck Sincerely Stewart PS. Remember that I am just another idiot with my own stupid personal opinions. Other idiots here have their own stupid personal opinions. — The Metaphor Man
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Before I respond to this, let me say that I am the web master for www.phobia-anxiety.com, and not someone working for the Anxiety and Phobia clinic itself, so I am not a doctor and might not know anymore than the average lay person about phobias and anxieties (outside of what I have learned while creating the web page). I am also completely new to this newsgroup. Having said that, I don’t really see what you’re complaint is. The people at the phobia clinic provided me with quite a lot of testimonials about the success their program has. I particularly noted the emotion with which people were thanking the clinic for helping them deal with something that aparently they previously were unable to get any help for. Yes, the post was an advertisement for the web page, but I was under the impression that this newsgroup would be populated by at least some people who are looking for exactly this kind of help. The post was clearly marked www.phobia-anxiety.com, so I don’t really think you could consider it spam. Anyway, it was my idea to post that message to the various different newsgroups, and I’d hate to do so in an inappropriate way, particularly since the people who work for the clinic have trusted me to do a little publicity about the web page for them. Can you suggest some other way I should have gone about this? Outside of getting the web page listed with Yahoo, etc., posting an announcement about the creation of the web page on these newsgroups seems like the obvious thing to do. The post was not misleading, and I thought the subject made it clear that the post was about a web page. Aren’t a lot of people who frequent these newsgroups doing so specifically because they are seeking help with exactly the kinds of problems the clinic addresses?
Dear Mick: I have to tell you that over the last year or so I have received at least 50 responses to my "canned response", but yours ranks up there as one of the most honest and straight forward of them. I appreciate that. Let me try to expand on my view a little more. (Those reading this on ASD may want to leave at this point, as they have likely heard this in some similar incarnation more than once before.) IMHO your post had an appropriate subject that was descriptive and not misleading. Thanks. I am sure that some were able to skip over it because of that, and that others were able to find it based on that. I think you are correct that a lot of people on ASD (and the other newsgroups you cross-posted to) are seeking help with the kinds of problems the clinic addresses, and that your "pointer" or advertisement for the clinic was more than appropriate subject matter. I personally consider your post an advertisement, but I don’t consider it SPAM. I think you are right in that what you did seems like an obvious thing to do. So what the heck is *my* complaint then?? First off, you have to understand that this is *my* complaint. You will note that I asked people on ASD and the other support groups to respond with what they think. I don’t know what others think. I don’t get a whole lot of feedback when I post my "canned response". It runs about 5 to 1 in favor of it, but it’s not like I get a whole lot of feedback. Either people on ASD think I am doing a good job and that I probably don’t need their feedback, or they think because they thanked me once that was all I needed to keep going and going and going. Alternatively, I suspect that most people simply don’t care. So what is it that I care about anyway?? It is hard to describe really. But I view ASD as more than just another SIG (Special Interest Group). I view ASD as my personal group therapy. (I know that it is other things to other people. They are free to use it as they like, and they are free to tell me about it, as I am telling you and them here.) But I, I hold this place sacred above all others. This is like going to confessional (what would I know about that, I am Jewish). This is where I try to access thoughts and feelings that I find hard to even get close to. But, as I open up my chest to reveal my demons, you interupt to remind me that, well, that this is just another place where nobody really cares about how I feel. I know that you did not mean to do that. I know that many here read my posts and *do* care. I know that I could have just skipped over your post, and left it for those who are interested in it. But it was here. Reminding me that even if I feel like killing myself tonight, there are still those who don’t know how I feel or don’t care. And so I feel compelled to tell you and others how I feel, and to ask you and others how you feel. You had no way of knowing how I feel (unless you lurked on ASD and read all 300+ posts per day for a few weeks before posting). You had no way of knowing what ASD *could* be, nor what it is. You did a very reasonable thing, and your response to my respose was even more reasonable. You are not a bad person in my eyes. Thanks for letting me say yet again how I feel about this group. Sincerely Stewart — The Metaphor Man
Response:
Are you afraid of riding elevators–being alone–driving on highways–heights? Discover the keys to overcoming your fears and phobias by accessing the web page of the Anxiety and Phobia Clinic of White Plains Hospital at www.phobia-anxiety.com. The Anxiety and Phobia Clinic, established in 1971 by Dr. Manuel Zane, has been helping people overcome these fears–and more–by the use of Contextual Therapy and the proactive support of the Clinic’s Phobia Aides. 93 to 95% of patients having completed our eight-week clinic report themselves to be "significantly improved" ad 6 month and 4 year follow-ups. In addition to phobias, the Clinic offers a program for Health Anxiety, an exaggerated fear of physical illness. The program, led by Fredric J. Neuman, M.D., director of the Anxiety and Phobia Clinic, consists of group meetings and practice sessions. An Intensive Support Stop Smoking Program is also being offered. The program is based on intensive support, cognitive-behavioral therapy, appropriate use of medication and persistent follow-up. Self-Help Groups meet weekly and are open to all persons dealing with phobias and anxieties. The groups are lead by our specially-trained phobia aides. The Clinic also offers a bi-monthly newsletter, containing articles about anxiety, fears, phobias and their treatment. Here are a few things some of our patients have said about the program: "When I joined the Clinic five years ago, my life had limits. I had problems driving, staying at work and traveling. Now I visit friends who live hours away. I have an exciting, challenging job. And I just renewed my passport! I will be forever grateful to the professionals at the clinic and cherish the friendships I have made with my fellow support groups members." "The greatest challenge of my life was overcoming my fears and phobias. I was imprisoned by
