Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – this alarms me because it sounds like you don’t have a meter you need a meter to determine how foods are affecting your bg control and bad bg control will leave you feeling listless and very tired demand a meter and at LEAST 4 test strips a day from your Dr are you on ANY meds at all??? once you are on meds, then all your Rx items are free in the UK good luck kate I have recently been diagnosed as T2 and following D&E regime. I am constantly tired and was told this would improve with weight loss and exercise – it doesn’t appear to have. Due to see doc again in about a month to do another fasting test and decide whether meds is required. I eat healthy,
May I ask precisely and exactly what you mean by healthy? As a diabetic, your endocrine and digestive systems are messed, so whatever healthy means for the general population, it does not apply to us diabetics. feel great otherwise and have no other symptoms. Just fed up with being tired, all other tests were okay. Any recs on how to combat the tiredness? TIA My levels have come down to 8 through weight loss and exercise,
If you don’t test daily, you don’t know what your levels are. See http://jennifer.flying.rat There is no better advice about testing on or off the net. my doc wants to see if further weight loss will bring it down again. I felt tired long before I was diagnosed
Tiredness is a common pre-diagnosis symptom, so you probably have been diabetic since before the tiredness started. and was tested for Thyroid amongst many other things and all was okay. Not on any meds nor testing. I don’t have sugar carvings, hypos, shakes, dizziness, infections or anything else. I am quite overweight and was told I was not producing enough insulin to rid the glucose,
If you are not producing enough insulin, why are you not on a sulphonylurea? If you are overweight your insulin resistance is probably too high. Why are you not on Metformin? Met has many benefits, losing weight for the first 12 months is one, a protective effect against CVD is another. mainly due to my body weight and lack of exercise. My weight is coming off nicely, not dieting just eating more sensibly and I have increased my exercise. I believe the doc has seen a big improvement and wants to see some more next time around. I know it will be an ongoing battle to keep my weight at a healthy level but I do intend to do this by taking up running again – I was never overweight then.
Eventually the exercise will reduce the tiredness. So would testing properly so that you know — I mean *really* know — what your glucose levels really are, and then take the necessary action. First action: find a different doctor. Your present doctor is happy to wait while YOU GET THE DAMAGE. Alan — de gustibus non disputandum est
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My levels have come down to 8 through weight loss and exercise, my doc wants to see if further weight loss will bring it down again. I felt tired long before I was diagnosed and was tested for Thyroid amongst many other things and all was okay. Not on any meds nor testing. I don’t have sugar carvings, hypos, shakes, dizziness, infections or anything else. I am quite overweight and was told I was not producing enough insulin to rid the glucose, mainly due to my body weight and lack of exercise. My weight is coming off nicely, not dieting just eating more sensibly and I have increased my exercise. I believe the doc has seen a big improvement and wants to see some more next time around. I know it will be an ongoing battle to keep my weight at a healthy level but I do intend to do this by taking up running again – I was never overweight then.
QT…… how often do you test??? are you only doing a fasting test at the Dr’s office???/ because 8 is WAY too high still for a fasting test you are aiming for 5’s for your fasting test……. and after meals you don’t want to go higher than 6.5 at the 2 hour mark (after you START eating) glucophage is an excellent anti-heart attack med that i would be demanding from my doc at this point…… read Alan’s excellent posts to you on that matter kate — Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet /server irc.undernet.org — /join #Diabetic-Talk More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – this alarms me because it sounds like you don’t have a meter you need a meter to determine how foods are affecting your bg control and bad bg control will leave you feeling listless and very tired demand a meter and at LEAST 4 test strips a day from your Dr are you on ANY meds at all??? once you are on meds, then all your Rx items are free in the UK good luck kate I have recently been diagnosed as T2 and following D&E regime. I am constantly tired and was told this would improve with weight loss and exercise – it doesn’t appear to have. Due to see doc again in about a month to do another fasting test and decide whether meds is required. I eat healthy, May I ask precisely and exactly what you mean by healthy? As a diabetic, your endocrine and digestive systems are messed, so whatever healthy means for the general population, it does not apply to us diabetics. feel great otherwise and have no other symptoms. Just fed up with being tired, all other tests were okay. Any recs on how to combat the tiredness? TIA My levels have come down to 8 through weight loss and exercise, If you don’t test daily, you don’t know what your levels are. See http://jennifer.flying.rat There is no better advice about testing on or off the net. my doc wants to see if further weight loss will bring it down again. I felt tired long before I was diagnosed Tiredness is a common pre-diagnosis symptom, so you probably have been diabetic since before the tiredness started. and was tested for Thyroid amongst many other things and all was okay. Not on any meds nor testing. I don’t have sugar carvings, hypos, shakes, dizziness, infections or anything else. I am quite overweight and was told I was not producing enough insulin to rid the glucose, If you are not producing enough insulin, why are you not on a sulphonylurea? If you are overweight your insulin resistance is probably too high. Why are you not on Metformin? Met has many benefits, losing weight for the first 12 months is one, a protective effect against CVD is another. mainly due to my body weight and lack of exercise. My weight is coming off nicely, not dieting just eating more sensibly and I have increased my exercise. I believe the doc has seen a big improvement and wants to see some more next time around. I know it will be an ongoing battle to keep my weight at a healthy level but I do intend to do this by taking up running again – I was never overweight then. Eventually the exercise will reduce the tiredness. So would testing properly so that you know — I mean *really* know — what your glucose levels really are, and then take the necessary action. First action: find a different doctor. Your present doctor is happy to wait while YOU GET THE DAMAGE. Alan
Here is reasonably full list of Metformin advantages. Also be aware that a vitamin B12 supplement is required more often than not. a. Metformin reduces overall mortality rates among T2 diabetics http://tinyurl.com/69yjd b. Metformin improves cholesterol and triglycerides http://tinyurl.com/5errv c. Metformin cuts heart attack risk in T2 http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/issue132/item2.shtml d. Metformin reduces blood sugars http://www.diabetesnet.com/diabetes_treatments/metformin.php e. One way of interpreting the metformin results in the DPT-2 is that metformin protects dying beta cells which are the proximate cause of T2 http://www.niddk.nih.gov/welcome/releases/8_8_01.htm f. Metformin protects against the formation of Advanced Glycosylation End Products (A.G.E.) http://tinyurl.com/5tonv g. Finally, Metformin helps folks lose weight (though usually only in the first year) http://www.smart-drugs.net/ias-metformin-weightloss.htm
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – this alarms me because it sounds like you don’t have a meter you need a meter to determine how foods are affecting your bg control and bad bg control will leave you feeling listless and very tired demand a meter and at LEAST 4 test strips a day from your Dr are you on ANY meds at all??? once you are on meds, then all your Rx items are free in the UK good luck kate — Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet /server irc.undernet.org — /join #Diabetic-Talk More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/ I have recently been diagnosed as T2 and following D&E regime. I am constantly tired and was told this would improve with weight loss and exercise – it doesn’t appear to have. Due to see doc again in about a month to do another fasting test and decide whether meds is required. I eat healthy, feel great otherwise and have no other symptoms. Just fed up with being tired, all other tests were okay. Any recs on how to combat the tiredness? TIA My levels have come down to 8 through weight loss and exercise, my doc wants to see if further weight loss will bring it down again. I felt tired long before I was diagnosed and was tested for Thyroid amongst many other things and all was okay. Not on any meds nor testing. I don’t have sugar carvings, hypos, shakes, dizziness, infections or anything else. I am quite overweight and was told I was not producing enough insulin to rid the glucose, mainly due to my body weight and lack of exercise. My weight is coming off nicely, not dieting just eating more sensibly and I have increased my exercise. I believe the doc has seen a big improvement and wants to see some more next time around. I know it will be an ongoing battle to keep my weight at a healthy level but I do intend to do this by taking up running again – I was never overweight then.
Response:
I have recently been diagnosed as T2 and following D&E regime. I am constantly tired and was told this would improve with weight loss and exercise – it doesn’t appear to have. Due to see doc again in about a month to do another fasting test and decide whether meds is required. I eat healthy, feel great otherwise and have no other symptoms. Just fed up with being tired, all other tests were okay. Any recs on how to combat the tiredness?
Once my BG had dropped below 11, my diabetes-related tiredness went with it, as did the running to the loo. I then was able to discover that I still had thyroxine-related tiredness…. There’s half-a-dozen nasty things that can make you tired; if you’re developing BG control and are still tired, a visit to the doc is a very good idea. Nicky T2 DX 5/2004
Response:
this alarms me because it sounds like you don’t have a meter you need a meter to determine how foods are affecting your bg control and bad bg control will leave you feeling listless and very tired demand a meter and at LEAST 4 test strips a day from your Dr are you on ANY meds at all??? once you are on meds, then all your Rx items are free in the UK good luck kate — Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet /server irc.undernet.org — /join #Diabetic-Talk More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have recently been diagnosed as T2 and following D&E regime. I am constantly tired and was told this would improve with weight loss and exercise – it doesn’t appear to have. Due to see doc again in about a month to do another fasting test and decide whether meds is required. I eat healthy, feel great otherwise and have no other symptoms. Just fed up with being tired, all other tests were okay. Any recs on how to combat the tiredness? TIA
Response:
I have recently been diagnosed as T2 and following D&E regime. I am constantly tired and was told this would improve with weight loss and exercise – it doesn’t appear to have. Due to see doc again in about a month to do another fasting test and decide whether meds is required. I eat healthy, feel great otherwise and have no other symptoms. Just fed up with being tired, all other tests were okay. Any recs on how to combat the tiredness? TIA
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My levels have come down to 8 through weight loss and exercise, my doc wants to see if further weight loss will bring it down again. I felt tired long before I was diagnosed and was tested for Thyroid amongst many other things and all was okay. Not on any meds nor testing. I don’t have sugar carvings, hypos, shakes, dizziness, infections or anything else. I am quite overweight and was told I was not producing enough insulin to rid the glucose, mainly due to my body weight and lack of exercise. My weight is coming off nicely, not dieting just eating more sensibly and I have increased my exercise. I believe the doc has seen a big improvement and wants to see some more next time around. I know it will be an ongoing battle to keep my weight at a healthy level but I do intend to do this by taking up running again – I was never overweight then. QT…… how often do you test??? are you only doing a fasting test at the Dr’s office???/ because 8 is WAY too high still for a fasting test you are aiming for 5’s for your fasting test……. and after meals you don’t want to go higher than 6.5 at the 2 hour mark (after you START eating) glucophage is an excellent anti-heart attack med that i would be demanding from my doc at this point…… read Alan’s excellent posts to you on that matter kate
I freely admit that the list I gave about Metformin(Glucophage) originates from OldAl. I don’t want to steal his thunder. Perish the thought! Alan — de gustibus non disputandum est
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My levels have come down to 8 through weight loss and exercise, my doc wants to see if further weight loss will bring it down again. I felt tired long before I was diagnosed and was tested for Thyroid amongst many other things and all was okay. Not on any meds nor testing. I don’t have sugar carvings, hypos, shakes, dizziness, infections or anything else. I am quite overweight and was told I was not producing enough insulin to rid the glucose, mainly due to my body weight and lack of exercise. My weight is coming off nicely, not dieting just eating more sensibly and I have increased my exercise. I believe the doc has seen a big improvement and wants to see some more next time around. I know it will be an ongoing battle to keep my weight at a healthy level but I do intend to do this by taking up running again – I was never overweight then.
Hi QT Read my sig. I am a patient with a little experience, not a doctor. Check anything you read on usenet with your doctor. The doctor may not agree with us, but still check before you decide what to do. You’ve had some excellent advice from the other posters by now, and you’re probably starting to suffer from information overload. Let me try to summarise. First, unlike some, I agree with your doc’s intentions to get your weight down and institute an exercise routine before adding drugs. You’ve had this for longer than you realise and a short period without the meds won’t hurt if you use that period to change your lifestyle. However, if your doc doesn’t support that with adequate test-strip prescriptions to allow you to test properly (fifty in the first week, reducing gradually after that as you learn), my agreement disappears. Second, your diet may be "healthy" by non-diabetic standards, and it may be helping your weight loss. However, the only way to find out if it is healthy for YOU is to "test, test, test" as so many have recommended to you. The best way to do that is as recommended in Jennifer’s advice at http://jennifer.flyingrat.net/. That is by far the most important advice you have received here. So, lose that weight, exercise more (be careful of the joint stress in running), and test, test, test, to eliminate the dangerous foods and select the right foods. Then, if BGs and HbA1c don’t improve as you approach your target weight, consider further meds if the doc agrees. JMO Cheers, Alan (a different one:-), T2, Australia. Remove weight and carbs to email. — dx May 2002 , A1C 8.2=5.9, wt 117kg=95kg, Diet and not enough exercise. I have no medical qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because experience can be an expensive teacher. Everything in Moderation – Except Laughter.
Response:
i will repeat……. if you are on meds, your Rx supplies are FREE test strips are expensive see if you can start out on 500mg of glucophage/metformin 
— Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet /server irc.undernet.org — /join #Diabetic-Talk More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive: yes glucophage is an excellent anti-heart attack med that i would be demanding from my doc at this point…… read Alan’s excellent posts to you on that matter He doesn’t need to be "demanding" anything from his doc at this stage ( except perhaps enough test strips ). He is recently diagnosed, his bgs are tumbling with weight loss and exercise and, as he says, the doc wants to review the situation again in a months time before a decision is made about the regime he will be on. I’d say a T2 newbie has to battle with D&e for at least three months before they begin to get a g limmerofwhatT2diabetesisallabout. QT is a newbie and what he needs from us at the moment is help and advice on T2 diet through the immediate trial period when it will become apparent, by giving it a little TIME, whether D&e is going to be enough for him to start with. 1. Breakfast …. eggs or bacon or other protein with veg / salad, preferably low GI veg such as mushrooms. NO cereals, NO fruit juice. start with . 4. Snacks …..crackers and cube of cheese/ nuts / pepperami 5. NO fruit as yet, you will have to test with your meter to see what you can eat in what quantities. 6. Amounts are up to you, keep full on veg. 7. Exercise … the old story a minimum of two mile walk a day or equivalent. Muscle building, dumbells or weights, on alternate days. You need muscles – they use a lot of glucose. That’s a suggested baseline diet , if you hit target bgs on that you can start to build things back e.g small amounts of carbs with dinner but tested for the effect. A bit of fruit but tested for the effect. If you are not hitting target bgs after a month of that its time to ask for metformin and possibly another tablet as well. Tackle it aggressively at every stage. And remember it’s not about sugar, it’s about carbohydrates.
Response:
I was diagnosed in June. Diet is high fibre with plenty of starchy foods,
"starchy foods". There is our first problem. Do a BG test one hour after your next high starch meal. You’re in for a shock, particularly after breakfast. low fat, fruit
"fruit". There is the second problem. Ditto. and vegetables. I am losing weight by eating sensibly.
Great – subject to BGs. Which vegetables? Biscuits, crisps, pastry, chocolate are a thing of the past. I don’t crave for any of these and eat plenty of fresh veg, fruit, brown bread,
"brown bread". Number three. Multigrain is better, but only in moderation. Ditto on testing. probiotic yogurts, sugar free drinks, fish,
Fish is good; preferably oily and fresh rather than canned. white meat etc, all of which I enjoy. Since eating more healthy my levels have come down and I’ve lost over 18lbs in less than 8 weeks.
Great. Good steady control although it will slow a little after that initial loss – how far do you have to go to reach your target? I believe I can reduce my levels further as I’ve no intention of putting the weight back on. I have only had one symptom of T2 – tiredness. My cholesterol is ok, BP ok, don’t smoke and now exercise regularly. Positive Mental Attitude keeps me determined to control this rather than let it control me.
Read "test,test,test" then come back with more questions:-) Cheers Alan, T2, Australia. Remove weight and carbs to email. — dx May 2002 , A1C 8.2=5.9, wt 117kg(257)=95kg(209), Diet and not enough exercise. I have no medical qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because experience can be an expensive teacher. Everything in Moderation – Except Laughter.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive: yes I think he is possibly talking about an HbA1c First action: find a different doctor. Your present doctor is happy to wait while YOU GET THE DAMAGE. Alan QT has "come down" to 8 ( from high double figs presumably ) through D&E and the doc is sensibly giving him a trial period of another month to see if D&E will continue to work for him and whether he can reduce bgs and HbA1c still further without meds. Nowt wrong with that. Many T2s don’t want meds and fight to stave them off for as long as poss ( three regular posters on this ng spring to mind ). Although we might like to see them on Met asap. BTW when you say "diet" – what diet are you following QT? And when "recently" were you dxed ? I was diagnosed in June. Diet is high fibre with plenty of starchy foods, low fat, fruit and vegetables. I am losing weight by eating sensibly. Biscuits, crisps, pastry, chocolate are a thing of the past. I don’t crave for any of these and eat plenty of fresh veg, fruit, brown bread, probiotic yogurts, sugar free drinks, fish, white meat etc, all of which I enjoy. Since eating more healthy my levels have come down and I’ve lost over 18lbs in less than 8 weeks. I believe I can reduce my levels further as I’ve no intention of putting the weight back on. I have only had one symptom of T2 – tiredness. My cholesterol is ok, BP ok, don’t smoke and now exercise regularly. Positive Mental Attitude keeps me determined to control this rather than let it control me.
Response:
I was diagnosed in June. Diet is high fibre with plenty of starchy foods, low fat, fruit and vegetables.
Two problems there, imo. Too much starch, too much fruit. And your vegetables would be best if you eat less root vegetables, more dark green leafy. Medical opinions varies enormously about lo-fat or high-fat, but there is one consistent thing — avoid trans-fats and hydrogenated fats, which are often found in cheap margarines. It seems to me that your doctor is being RE-active. I think PRO-active is much better. Alan (the English one) — de gustibus non disputandum est
Response:
I have recently been diagnosed as T2 and following D&E regime. I am constantly tired and was told this would improve with weight loss and exercise – it doesn’t appear to have. Due to see doc again in about a month to do another fasting test and decide whether meds is required. I eat healthy, feel great otherwise and have no other symptoms. Just fed up with being tired, all other tests were okay. Any recs on how to combat the tiredness? TIA
You’ve had a lot of suggestions on how to get your BGs down, but there has not been any focus on the tiredness. You didn’t mention when it is you feel tired. Is it all the time or is it at odd times? Before dx I had the usual tiredness problem – usually mid-afternoon and mid-morning. This is because the highest point for bg occurs about 90 mins after meals and if it is too high your body wants to shut down while it deals with the problem and you feel ridiculously and unexpectedly tired. However, if you are feeling tired all of the time it is far more likely to be something else – a sleep disorder like sleep apnea (or apnoea) for example which is quite common in those with weight problems. You do need to deal with the BGs issue, but I just want to be sure that it is also the cause of the tiredness. VBH T2/UK/A1c 5.8/ 1000Met/Dx Oct-03
Response:
16:07:06 Tue, 7 Sep 2004alt.support.diabetes.uk – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 00:04:31 Mon, 6 Sep 2004alt.support.diabetes.uk I was diagnosed in June. Diet is high fibre with plenty of starchy foods, low fat, fruit and vegetables. I am losing weight by eating sensibly. Biscuits, crisps, pastry, chocolate are a thing of the past. I don’t crave for any of these and eat plenty of fresh veg, fruit, brown bread, probiotic yogurts, sugar free drinks, fish, white meat etc, all of which I enjoy. Since eating more healthy my levels have come down and I’ve lost over 18lbs in less than 8 weeks. I believe I can reduce my levels further as I’ve no intention of putting the weight back on. I have only had one symptom of T2 – tiredness. My cholesterol is ok, BP ok, don’t smoke and now exercise regularly. Positive Mental Attitude keeps me determined to control this rather than let it control me. The medical profession generally recommends that T2s eat plenty of starchy food, but those of us who test our own BG levels quickly discover that this advice is bad in most cases. The reason for this is that although starchy foods are better for T2s than sugary foods (which is why the advice is given, I imagine), starchy foods still convert into blood glucose too quickly for most T2 metabolisms to cope with. That might be the case for some or many but the main problem is not the speed at which it convers but the duration of production. Starchy foods will last longer the consequence of which is that by the time you get to your next meal, there is still starch being processed and anything you consume will result in a higher BG level.
Yes, I would agree, that is an important factor as well. But the longer duration is touted as one of the advantages of starches, of course – the peak is spread out more (but not enough in most T2’s cases, and it is still far too high of course). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -If I decide to eat a spud or two, then I have to adjust either my next meal time, its composition and add more exercise or usually the whole lot together. As a result i rarely knowingly eat starchy foods unless I know I am about to use a lot of energy. The medical profession doesn’t seem to have caught up with this simple notion yet and I believe that their advice is tailored more towards making small improvements to the diets of the die-hard doughnut-eaters of this world than for helping people who are serious about controlling their diabetes. I agree with you there but recently have come to think that the real reason for their apparent lack of uptodate policies is far simpler to understand. We know how complex this thing is and the fact that every factor has an interaction with all the others which are constantly changing. Some medical professionals have a great deal of dificulty in getting their heads around it so what chance has Joe Bloggs 40-50 something fat bastard with a dull intellect? They try to make it easier for people like that. The brighter ones will self learn.
Yes, it is complex, and the advice will presumably evolve over time as generations retire or when some decent and headline-making research is done for once. I think its the wrong attitude and smacks of arrogance.
Yep. The public [Joe Bloggs] is far brighter and better informed than the government seems willing to accept or realise. That attitude spills down the chain of admin/command.
– London, UK Home Page: http://www.tucana.demon.co.uk Diet Success: http://www.tucana.demon.co.uk/diet.htm Mobile Phone Ring Tones: http://www.ringamoby.com "Everything I do and say with anyone makes a difference." Gita Bellin
Response:
18:59:34 Wed, 8 Sep 2004alt.support.diabetes.uk That might be the case for some or many but the main problem is not the speed at which it convers but the duration of production. Starchy foods will last longer the consequence of which is that by the time you get to your next meal, there is still starch being processed and anything you consume will result in a higher BG level. Yes, I would agree, that is an important factor as well. But the longer duration is touted as one of the advantages of starches, Only inso much as it means that you can feed before anticipated heavy exercise and just knoe that you aint going to run out of steam after an hour or so. I use this technique frequently.
I wonder sometimes if I should do something like this too. I go to the gym, but will sometimes run out of steam. However, I don’t usually load up on carbohydrates beforehand – at least, not much. I will sometimes have some beans and a slice of toast (tut! tut!) with my English breakfast so I suppose that counts; I leave it around 1.5 hours before going to the gym after eating, as my stomach protests too 1much if I go sooner. A bit of caffeine seems to help too. The big problem is that when I do go too low, I am incapacitated for about half an hour and I prefer to stick to specific feeding times so starches fit the bill.
I don’t have that problem as I am not on meds and my levels are reasonably stable these days, as long as I eat sensibly, which I do about 3/4 of the time. Seems to be enough. I seem to be able to exercise without getting any ‘low’ symptoms, anyway, except, perhaps, running out of energy sometimes in the gym – but I’m not sure that that has anything to do with my BG levels. After all, one can expect to get tired when exercising, so I don’t really know. Sometimes I’m OK, sometimes I tire easily. Sometimes I will try taking some ‘Touch of Fruit’ water with about 5g of carbs per 100ml in, but it makes no discernible difference on those days I am tiring. A couple of mouthfuls (literally) of Lucozade did make a difference once, but that stuff is so loaded I’m scared of it! The new Lucozade hydro-wotsit with only modest amounts of carbs seems OK, but again, makes little difference to my energy levels AFAICT. too (I forgot to ask about my HbA1c level today but I got the other figures): The first figure on each line is 6 months ago, the second from tests a couple of weeks ago: Total Cholesterol: 6; 5.4 LDL 4.23; 3.37 HDL 1.5; 1.78 Trigs 0.6; 0.55 So all moving in the right direction, it seems. The doctor suggested a low dose of statin but I felt that D&E seems to be doing the trick and we can see what happens in 3 months’ time. HbA1c was 5.4% six months ago, down from about 6, IIRC. My weight is down too – I’m getting slightly worried that it will go too low. I’m 167cm tall, weigh 58kg now (down over nearly 2 years from, er, 72kg or even more at times). of course – the peak is spread out more (but not enough in most T2’s cases, and it is still far too high of course). Well yes that’s true – for me anyway but as I said if I am doing a lot of work/exercise the peaks are no worse than when not taking starches.
– London, UK Home Page: http://www.tucana.demon.co.uk Diet Success: http://www.tucana.demon.co.uk/diet.htm Mobile Phone Ring Tones: http://www.ringamoby.com "Everything I do and say with anyone makes a difference." Gita Bellin
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09:33:07 Thu, 9 Sep 2004alt.support.diabetes.uk – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – too (I forgot to ask about my HbA1c level today but I got the other figures): Well that seems to verify that you are on the right track. The first figure on each line is 6 months ago, the second from tests a couple of weeks ago: Total Cholesterol: 6; 5.4 LDL 4.23; 3.37 HDL 1.5; 1.78 Trigs 0.6; 0.55 Well that seems to confirm it.
I think so. So all moving in the right direction, it seems. The doctor suggested a low dose of statin but I felt that D&E seems to be doing the trick and we can see what happens in 3 months’ time. This whole process takes time and you might be right to stay on D&E for a while longer especially if your improvement continues as it is. Doing the hard work to get there is all about mental conditioning as well.
Absolutely. Getting the mind in order so it can outweigh the lazy instincts with motivation from elsewhere is probably the key to the whole process (I’ve written a big section about that on my web page because I think that without that, diet and exercise is doomed to failure – as indeed, most dieters find out anyway). You are less likely to ‘backslide’ after a long period of hard work and effort to get there. But – do not be afraid to use meds if it gets too difficult. I went the same route as you and in the end had no alternative. There will come a point in time when you have worked your way to the best weight you can get and your diet is good and your BG is still too high. But you have to get there first. The advantage I found in going this route is that at my best weight/high exercise level the Bg I achieved was also the best I could do. It was simpler to determine the right med and ‘fine tune’ the dose. However, there are other problems that arrive with meds. The fight is never ending.
Yep, meds may be needed at some point. My BGs are usually OK, coming down to around 5.3 pre-prandial, normally. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -HbA1c was 5.4% six months ago, down from about 6, IIRC. My weight is down too – I’m getting slightly worried that it will go too low. I’m 167cm tall, weigh 58kg now (down over nearly 2 years from, er, 72kg or even more at times). Be very carefull not to go to low in weight and believe me I can tell you from personal experience – it is easy once you are on a roll. The worst possible scenario is that you burn off all the available fat and then you are in the shit!!! When you loose fat that is used as ‘internal padding’ [protecting ligaments/nerves/tendons from each other] it cannot be replaced. There is no treatment except to gain weight and that can only be done with a penalty involved. Trust me on this one because I am currently suffering the effects of such an event and believe me its a nightmare. Be cautious, do not let your weight go below what might be considered your ideal. If at that point your BG is still not acceptable then you need meds to help.
I think I am around my ideal now, and am a bit concerned that I will have to start eating more to keep it that way. I no longer have the appetite I once did, and I don’t want to be stuffing too many nasty carbs down my gob again! Sigh. :-/ — London, UK Home Page: http://www.tucana.demon.co.uk Diet Success: http://www.tucana.demon.co.uk/diet.htm Mobile Phone Ring Tones: http://www.ringamoby.com "Everything I do and say with anyone makes a difference." Gita Bellin
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00:04:31 Mon, 6 Sep 2004alt.support.diabetes.uk I was diagnosed in June. Diet is high fibre with plenty of starchy foods, low fat, fruit and vegetables. I am losing weight by eating sensibly. Biscuits, crisps, pastry, chocolate are a thing of the past. I don’t crave for any of these and eat plenty of fresh veg, fruit, brown bread, probiotic yogurts, sugar free drinks, fish, white meat etc, all of which I enjoy. Since eating more healthy my levels have come down and I’ve lost over 18lbs in less than 8 weeks. I believe I can reduce my levels further as I’ve no intention of putting the weight back on. I have only had one symptom of T2 – tiredness. My cholesterol is ok, BP ok, don’t smoke and now exercise regularly. Positive Mental Attitude keeps me determined to control this rather than let it control me.
Hi QT, Other people have commented on this but I want to add my 2p’s worth as well, just for emphasis. The medical profession generally recommends that T2s eat plenty of starchy food, but those of us who test our own BG levels quickly discover that this advice is bad in most cases. The reason for this is that although starchy foods are better for T2s than sugary foods (which is why the advice is given, I imagine), starchy foods still convert into blood glucose too quickly for most T2 metabolisms to cope with. The medical profession doesn’t seem to have caught up with this simple notion yet and I believe that their advice is tailored more towards making small improvements to the diets of the die-hard doughnut-eaters of this world than for helping people who are serious about controlling their diabetes. I would say congratulations, though, on the weight loss, and on the dietary improvements in general. For my version of how to go about it, which may have some useful ideas for you, check out my web page about it, here: http://www.tucana.demon.co.uk/diet.htm There is a lot to read there, but pick and choose what you like and anyway I would advise anyone to develop their own techniques based on who they are and what they can manage. The appendix at the bottom has a lot of useful info in it. — London, UK Home Page: http://www.tucana.demon.co.uk Diet Success: http://www.tucana.demon.co.uk/diet.htm Mobile Phone Ring Tones: http://www.ringamoby.com "Everything I do and say with anyone makes a difference." Gita Bellin
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12:40:36 Thu, 9 Sep 2004alt.support.diabetes.uk – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Absolutely. Getting the mind in order so it can outweigh the lazy instincts with motivation from elsewhere is probably the key to the whole process (I’ve written a big section about that on my web page because I think that without that, diet and exercise is doomed to failure – as indeed, most dieters find out anyway). Quite correct. I have in the recent past, concocted an 8 page information sheet with dieting in mind and aimed at the overweight. I was asked to do so by a member of my family who embarked on the instructions. Weight was lost and noticably so but now a few months later its back again. I was told that the diet instructions given worked but as soon as it was stopped the weight was on again. I pointed out that loosing weight was one thing but to keep it off you have to accept that you will never be able to revert back to your old ways of troughing. I also pointed out that its a lifestyle change and unless you are really sincere about making the change then you will never succede so long as there is a hole in yer head )
It is peculiar how such a simple notion seems to escape so many people. They want a quick fix, and treat a diet as if it is such a thing, whereas a little thought would surely tell them that there is, in this case, no such thing (yet). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Yep, meds may be needed at some point. My BGs are usually OK, coming down to around 5.3 pre-prandial, normally. Well that aint so bad. The lowes mine ever got pre meds was 6.0 – something. HbA1c was 5.4% six months ago, down from about 6, IIRC. My weight is down too – I’m getting slightly worried that it will go too low. I’m 167cm tall, weigh 58kg now (down over nearly 2 years from, er, 72kg or even more at times). I think I am around my ideal now, and am a bit concerned that I will have to start eating more to keep it that way. I no longer have the appetite I once did, and I don’t want to be stuffing too many nasty carbs down my gob again! Sigh. :-/ Test often and watch yer weight carefully. If you discover that you cannot maintain your weight without resultant increases in your BG’s then it might be time to consider alternatives. At the moment I am managing to balance my weight. its the old balance trick. Meds are fixed – diet is fixed so the only thing I have to vary according to BG readings is exercise. Of course it aint that simple and there are other factors which enable a cock up but at least I am not chasing things. Diagnosed 20/03/03 Type II D&E + Metformin 800 + Gliclazide MR 80 + Asprin 210lbs at Dx to BMI 166lbs achieved. Now 170 To mail: aspen at freeuk.com
I suppose I must watch the body fat percentage, ultimately. On that score, it is, AFAICT, still on the high side at around 20%. So, as yet, being underweight isn’t a problem… but both weight and BF% will be clues for me to watch over the coming months, I can see. — London, UK Home Page: http://www.tucana.demon.co.uk Diet Success: http://www.tucana.demon.co.uk/diet.htm Mobile Phone Ring Tones: http://www.ringamoby.com "Everything I do and say with anyone makes a difference." Gita Bellin
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And if you do have sleep apnoea, weight loss and regular exercise will help that, too. Maggie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have recently been diagnosed as T2 and following D&E regime. I am constantly tired and was told this would improve with weight loss and exercise – it doesn’t appear to have. Due to see doc again in about a month to do another fasting test and decide whether meds is required. I eat healthy, feel great otherwise and have no other symptoms. Just fed up with being tired, all other tests were okay. Any recs on how to combat the tiredness? TIA You’ve had a lot of suggestions on how to get your BGs down, but there has not been any focus on the tiredness. You didn’t mention when it is you feel tired. Is it all the time or is it at odd times? Before dx I had the usual tiredness problem – usually mid-afternoon and mid-morning. This is because the highest point for bg occurs about 90 mins after meals and if it is too high your body wants to shut down while it deals with the problem and you feel ridiculously and unexpectedly tired. However, if you are feeling tired all of the time it is far more likely to be something else – a sleep disorder like sleep apnea (or apnoea) for example which is quite common in those with weight problems. You do need to deal with the BGs issue, but I just want to be sure that it is also the cause of the tiredness. VBH T2/UK/A1c 5.8/ 1000Met/Dx Oct-03 My sleep apnoea was diagnosed nearly 4 years ago after it had started affecting my work. I went through a battery of tests, all showing nothing, until my husband found an article on it, and told me that I frequently stop breathing whilst asleep. I mentioned that to the quack, who sent me to the local sleep clinic. The test is easy: you get a wristband with a neat little computer thingy in it and a soft alligator type clip that you put on one finger, just before you go to bed. Next day, you return the wristband and they print out a sheet that shows how much oxygen is floating around in your blood while you sleep. This tells them how often you stop breathing. Treatment is using a CPAP machine whilst sleeping. Sleep apnoea sufferers are most commonly overweight middle-aged men with a large collar size, particularly if they are heavy drinkers. I am a middle-aged woman who was massively overweight [now I'm only obese, but still losing weight], who used to be a bit too fond of the booze. [If I'm honest, I still am, I just don't indulge myself that much anymore.] There is some kind of link between DM and SA, although I don’t think anyone really knows what it is: they do crop up together often enough to be statistically significant. I think it would be worth discussing it with your doc. If you do have it, it ain’t going to help with your BG control, and it’s a nasty thing to have in it’s own right. By the time I got the CPAP machine, I was falling asleep at work, couldn’t concentrate, was having auditory hallucinations, and would sometimes have what I think was some kind of a partial "brain shutdown": I was aware of things going on around me, but couldn’t react to anything. The specialist thought I must have had it for several years by then. Sleep deprivation over any kind of long term is no picnic. Fortunately, all the symptoms disappeared after about a month of using the machine. Good luck, Maggie
– There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats. — Albert Schweitzer
Response:
Maggie….. i was diagnosed with sleep apnea about 4….. maybe 3??? years ago at 5′6" and 120 lbs……. i still had sleep apnea……. so it’s not just a size thing took me close to 2 yrs to get in for my sleep study because "i didn’t fit the profile" whatever!!!! i have an AutoPAP and run an average pressure of 14 now (was set at 8 by the sleep clinic on a ’split titration" study thank goodness i got the AutoPAP to prove i was being undertreated so many causes to our feeling tired….. diabetes isn’t everything kate — Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet /server irc.undernet.org — /join #Diabetic-Talk More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have recently been diagnosed as T2 and following D&E regime. I am constantly tired and was told this would improve with weight loss and exercise – it doesn’t appear to have. Due to see doc again in about a month to do another fasting test and decide whether meds is required. I eat healthy, feel great otherwise and have no other symptoms. Just fed up with being tired, all other tests were okay. Any recs on how to combat the tiredness? TIA You’ve had a lot of suggestions on how to get your BGs down, but there has not been any focus on the tiredness. You didn’t mention when it is you feel tired. Is it all the time or is it at odd times? Before dx I had the usual tiredness problem – usually mid-afternoon and mid-morning. This is because the highest point for bg occurs about 90 mins after meals and if it is too high your body wants to shut down while it deals with the problem and you feel ridiculously and unexpectedly tired. However, if you are feeling tired all of the time it is far more likely to be something else – a sleep disorder like sleep apnea (or apnoea) for example which is quite common in those with weight problems. You do need to deal with the BGs issue, but I just want to be sure that it is also the cause of the tiredness. VBH T2/UK/A1c 5.8/ 1000Met/Dx Oct-03 My sleep apnoea was diagnosed nearly 4 years ago after it had started affecting my work. I went through a battery of tests, all showing nothing, until my husband found an article on it, and told me that I frequently stop breathing whilst asleep. I mentioned that to the quack, who sent me to the local sleep clinic. The test is easy: you get a wristband with a neat little computer thingy in it and a soft alligator type clip that you put on one finger, just before you go to bed. Next day, you return the wristband and they print out a sheet that shows how much oxygen is floating around in your blood while you sleep. This tells them how often you stop breathing. Treatment is using a CPAP machine whilst sleeping. Sleep apnoea sufferers are most commonly overweight middle-aged men with a large collar size, particularly if they are heavy drinkers. I am a middle-aged woman who was massively overweight [now I'm only obese, but still losing weight], who used to be a bit too fond of the booze. [If I'm honest, I still am, I just don't indulge myself that much anymore.] There is some kind of link between DM and SA, although I don’t think anyone really knows what it is: they do crop up together often enough to be statistically significant. I think it would be worth discussing it with your doc. If you do have it, it ain’t going to help with your BG control, and it’s a nasty thing to have in it’s own right. By the time I got the CPAP machine, I was falling asleep at work, couldn’t concentrate, was having auditory hallucinations, and would sometimes have what I think was some kind of a partial "brain shutdown": I was aware of things going on around me, but couldn’t react to anything. The specialist thought I must have had it for several years by then. Sleep deprivation over any kind of long term is no picnic. Fortunately, all the symptoms disappeared after about a month of using the machine. Good luck, Maggie — There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats. — Albert Schweitzer
Response:
The interesting thing that I picked up from the consultant I saw was that most cases of sleep apnoea are picked up because the sufferer’s other half has threatened to ban him [less commonly her] from the conjugal bed because of snoring – not because of symptoms of sleep deprivation. But, hey, it’s just snoring, and that’s a joke, innit?
boyfriend……. woke up to being pelted with socks to wake me up to stop that trip and had a talk with my Dr who gave me a survey for HIM to fill out oh well……. i’m under CPAP treatment now…… things are much better and yes…… i had been so sleep deprived for so long, i didn’t realise how tired i was until i got treatment! kate — Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet /server irc.undernet.org — /join #Diabetic-Talk More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maggie….. i was diagnosed with sleep apnea about 4….. maybe 3??? years ago at 5′6" and 120 lbs……. i still had sleep apnea……. so it’s not just a size thing took me close to 2 yrs to get in for my sleep study because "i didn’t fit the profile" whatever!!!! i have an AutoPAP and run an average pressure of 14 now (was set at 8 by the sleep clinic on a ’split titration" study thank goodness i got the AutoPAP to prove i was being undertreated so many causes to our feeling tired….. diabetes isn’t everything kate
You don’t fit the profile both for being female and not being overweight. I don’t fit it for being female, but I do on the other counts. The quacks tend not to look for it in females generally, and even less so in females at a reasonable weight. That’s why I underwent various tests for 7 or 8 months before Alan [my Alan] showed me the article. As I understand it, when you go to sleep, many of the muscles in your body relax to a fairly extreme degree, including the various muscles around your windpipe. If you have sleep apnoea, they relax even more, to the point where the windpipe closes. You stop breathing, and after a while, the brain notices that it isn’t getting enough oxygen, and sends out "panic" signals, so you sort of snort and start breathing again. If you are sufficiently overweight to have fat deposits around the neck, then it takes less relaxation of the muscles to close the windpipe. If you drink at all heavily, you’ll relax a whole lot more and more easily [hence the expression "relaxed as a newt"!] The end result is that you never properly get to sleep, you don’t have REM or dream sleep, and you wake up feeling like you’ve been dragged backwards through a wet hedge. [You'll be aware of much of this, but others might not be.] The interesting thing that I picked up from the consultant I saw was that most cases of sleep apnoea are picked up because the sufferer’s other half has threatened to ban him [less commonly her] from the conjugal bed because of snoring – not because of symptoms of sleep deprivation. But, hey, it’s just snoring, and that’s a joke, innit? I think anyone who suspects that sleep apnoea might be their problem should push for the appropriate test. Maggie — There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats. — Albert Schweitzer
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have recently been diagnosed as T2 and following D&E regime. I am constantly tired and was told this would improve with weight loss and exercise – it doesn’t appear to have. Due to see doc again in about a month to do another fasting test and decide whether meds is required. I eat healthy, feel great otherwise and have no other symptoms. Just fed up with being tired, all other tests were okay. Any recs on how to combat the tiredness? TIA You’ve had a lot of suggestions on how to get your BGs down, but there has not been any focus on the tiredness. You didn’t mention when it is you feel tired. Is it all the time or is it at odd times? Before dx I had the usual tiredness problem – usually mid-afternoon and mid-morning. This is because the highest point for bg occurs about 90 mins after meals and if it is too high your body wants to shut down while it deals with the problem and you feel ridiculously and unexpectedly tired. However, if you are feeling tired all of the time it is far more likely to be something else – a sleep disorder like sleep apnea (or apnoea) for example which is quite common in those with weight problems. You do need to deal with the BGs issue, but I just want to be sure that it is also the cause of the tiredness. VBH T2/UK/A1c 5.8/ 1000Met/Dx Oct-03
My sleep apnoea was diagnosed nearly 4 years ago after it had started affecting my work. I went through a battery of tests, all showing nothing, until my husband found an article on it, and told me that I frequently stop breathing whilst asleep. I mentioned that to the quack, who sent me to the local sleep clinic. The test is easy: you get a wristband with a neat little computer thingy in it and a soft alligator type clip that you put on one finger, just before you go to bed. Next day, you return the wristband and they print out a sheet that shows how much oxygen is floating around in your blood while you sleep. This tells them how often you stop breathing. Treatment is using a CPAP machine whilst sleeping. Sleep apnoea sufferers are most commonly overweight middle-aged men with a large collar size, particularly if they are heavy drinkers. I am a middle-aged woman who was massively overweight [now I'm only obese, but still losing weight], who used to be a bit too fond of the booze. [If I'm honest, I still am, I just don't indulge myself that much anymore.] There is some kind of link between DM and SA, although I don’t think anyone really knows what it is: they do crop up together often enough to be statistically significant. I think it would be worth discussing it with your doc. If you do have it, it ain’t going to help with your BG control, and it’s a nasty thing to have in it’s own right. By the time I got the CPAP machine, I was falling asleep at work, couldn’t concentrate, was having auditory hallucinations, and would sometimes have what I think was some kind of a partial "brain shutdown": I was aware of things going on around me, but couldn’t react to anything. The specialist thought I must have had it for several years by then. Sleep deprivation over any kind of long term is no picnic. Fortunately, all the symptoms disappeared after about a month of using the machine. Good luck, Maggie — There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats. — Albert Schweitzer
Response:
Quite a bit on the 5th and 6th, but then……. nothing. Do you think this could be because he/she was given some REALLY good advice which wasn’t given by the quack, but which conflicted with the quacks "advice", and which would likely show him/her that her (I’ve decided:-) control wasn’t nearly as good as she thinks? Testing usually does that. Or am I just being a cynical bastard as usual? Beav
Response:
Tom 