Sleeping Disorder » Sleep Disorder Treatment

Insomnia Can Lead to Anxiety and Depression article

admin — Sun, 22 Jul 2007 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Insomnia Can Lead to Anxiety and Depression By: Psych Central Senior News Editor on Thursday, Jul, 5, 2007 Reviewed by: John M. Grohol, Psy.D. on July 5, 2007 at 10:41 am A night of bad sleep is a common event. For most people, insomnia lasts only a few days and goes away without treatment. However, when the sleep loss becomes the norm, the mind is ripe for development of anxiety or depression. Stress is known to cause a higher level of insomnia that may last for several weeks. This kind of insomnia may not go away on its own, and can lead to both short- and long-term health problems if left untreated. According to a study published in the journal SLEEP, chronic insomnia can increase one

Doctors Warn Against Childhood Obesity

admin — Wed, 20 Apr 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Time to report Kate Horton to the kind folks at uni-berlin. They forbid the use of alias and Kate Horton uses a different one every day. They also require their users to post with their full name. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->From: >Newsgroups: >soc.support.fat-acceptance,misc.health.diabetes,al >t.troll,alt.support.sleep-disorder >Subject: Doctors Warn Against Childhood Obesity >Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 18:18:59 -0700 >Organization: Altopia Corp. – Usenet Access – >www.altopia.com >Lines: 82

Response:

Path: uni-berlin.de!fu-berlin.de!newscon06.news.prodigy. com!prodigy.net!news-feed01.roc.ny.frontiernet.net !nntp.frontiernet.net!newsfeed2.telusplanet.net!ne wsfeed.telus.net!cyclone.bc.net!news.alt.net!usene t From: deathaftermidni…@sleepapneagluttons.com Newsgroups: soc.support.fat-acceptance,misc.health.diabetes,al t.troll,alt.support.sleep-disorder Subject: Doctors Warn Against Childhood Obesity Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 18:18:59 -0700 Organization: Altopia Corp. – Usenet Access – www.altopia.com Lines: 82 Message-ID: <0svd61tp5hfe8a2239uappjl1grfkkg…@4ax.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) Xref: uni-berlin.de soc.support.fat-acceptance:270132 misc.health.diabetes:325481 alt.support.sleep-disorder:113299 Altopia again Shawnie is on a roll wrote in message news:0svd61tp5hfe8a2239uappjl1grfkkg4rc@4ax.com… > Doctors Warn Against Childhood Obesity > By Jamie Stengle > AP > 04/19/05 3:36 PM PT > The prevalence of overweight children and

adolescents has almost quadrupled from > less than 5 percent in the 1980s to about 16

percent today. Overweight children > are at increased risk for problems such as

diabetes, high blood pressure, sleep > apnea and high cholesterol. > Why upgrade your technology? > Because great ideas deserve great technology.

When you’re bringing ideas to > life, your desktops, notebooks and servers

should work with you, not against > you. So why wait? Get new systems today and

start creating tomorrow. CDW. The > Mac Solutions You Need When You Need Them. > Warning that the path to obesity can start

during toddler-hood, pediatric > experts say parents should make sure 3- and

4-year-olds get an hour of active > play each day along with five fruits and vegetables. > "We think that may be a vulnerable period to

start excess weight gain," said Dr. > Stephen R. Daniels, professor of pediatrics and

environmental health at > Cincinnati Children’s Hospital Medical Center. > Daniels was the lead author of a statement

published Monday in the American > Heart Association journal Circulation, which

devoted the issue to the topic of > obesity. > Childhood Obesity Threat > Toddler-hood is "also a time when dietary

patterns may become more like those of > adults, and also when many children develop

physical activity patterns both good > and bad," he wrote in an e-mail message. > Childhood obesity has become such a threat to

public health that it could > reverse the last half-century’s gains in

reducing cardiovascular disease and > death, the heart association said. > Dr. Reginald Washington, a pediatric

cardiologist in Denver who co-chairs the > task force on obesity for the American Academy

of Pediatrics, said that doctors > still need to be educated about monitoring

children that young for signs of > obesity. > "Those of us that have been looking at this

problem believe that prevention is > better than treatment," Washington said. "Once

you become obese it’s very > difficult to lose that weight and keep it off.

If you are in the habit of not > eating large portions, if you are in the habit

of being physically active, > that’s going to stay with you." > Proper Diet > Toddlers should eat five fruits and vegetables a

day along with fiber-rich > grains and should switch from drinking full-fat

dairy to 1 percent or fat-free > dairy products after age 2, according to the

heart association. They should have > an hour of "active play" each day and limited

time not being active, the > statement says. > The prevalence of overweight children and

adolescents has almost quadrupled from > less than 5 percent in the 1980s to about 16

percent today. An overweight child > is at increased risk for problems including

diabetes, high blood pressure, sleep > apnea and high cholesterol. > Even so, Dr. Priscilla Hollander, head of

endocrinology at Baylor University > Medical Center in Dallas, said, "I think it may

be a little shocking to say we > do have to do this for toddlers." > Carina Terry, 39, who lives in the Dallas suburb

of Allen, has been trying to > establish healthy habits among her four

children, ages 2, 4, 5 and 7. > Terry, who home-schools her children, has a food

pyramid posted in front of the > kitchen table. "It really helped them to

understand what food we need to eat and > why," said Terry, whose children do not have any weight problems. > Healthy Habits > She is also making sure that they get enough

exercise. "We ride our bikes to the > park, have a picnic and play," she said. > "They are becoming accustomed to a variety of

foods and also an active > lifestyle," she said. "Those habits that develop

early will live with them – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> forever."

Response:

Doctors Warn Against Childhood Obesity By Jamie Stengle AP 04/19/05 3:36 PM PT The prevalence of overweight children and adolescents has almost quadrupled from less than 5 percent in the 1980s to about 16 percent today. Overweight children are at increased risk for problems such as diabetes, high blood pressure, sleep apnea and high cholesterol. Why upgrade your technology? Because great ideas deserve great technology. When you

c-pap (long)

admin — Thu, 17 Mar 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Smiles! My sister had her teeth done twice as a mature adult. Also have a friend with the machine, she loves it but somehow it stuck to face over her eyebrows and she now has a one inch scare. I hope for good news on your test results. Stay happy and go out for dinner with a friend. Sue

Response:

Susie, Genotype 2 has a very high response…good luck!!! Exercise is the best for fibromyalgia…and you will loose some weight…I know is not easy…but helps a lot…

Response:

My friend has a sleep machine like yours. It has done wonders for a sound sleep once you get used to wearing the head set he said. Hoping your pcr is neg. You sound so good and very happy. Do lets us know how it goes. Its nice to get rid of the Hep C fatigue, I don’t miss that at all. Juanita

Response:

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 18:06:38 +1000, "Susie Quill" wrote: > : ) LOL Imagine, late 50’s with >braces….I think I’ll do it. >First step….kill the dragon. Hugs, >Susie >—-== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- >http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups >—-= East and West-Coast Server Farms – Total Privacy via Encryption =—-

Susie, I’m glad to hear things are better and hope they stay that way. Sleep really is important. Good luck with that 6 month PCR.

Response:

Good for you Susie!!! Good luck with the 6 mo. V/L. Life is good Mark "Susie Quill" wrote in message

news:42393b35$1_1@127.0.0.1… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi! > For the new ones that don’t know me, I’ll give a little > history. Started treatment last march, finished in September for type 2b. > Missed some work, but managed to keep > working thru treatment. I started treatment because of the fatigue and > showing some liver damage. Had dx. of fibromyalgia ten years ago which is > a pain and sleep > disorder. Thought the fibro might have been triggered by the HCV. Since > life wasn’t getting any better, too tired to > do much, work and sleep, sleeping my life away in front of > the tv at night, getting up tired, going thru the day tired, I > thought getting rid of HCV would be the answer to getting rid of the > fibro. > At end of treatment in September, still had the fibro with sleep disorder > and pain, but felt a little better. Attitude was a lot better, so > apparently the HCV affected central nervous system. The depression I’ve > had for years evaporated. > Someone suggested I might have sleep apnea. So flew to philippines for > testing in November. Much cheaper then getting it done here. > I didn’t get the machine until a couple weeks ago. Today, > I woke up a little tired, but found that I had so much more > energy and less fatigue throughout the day. I still had enough energy > tonight where I would have loved to have gone out to do something….but I > don’t have that kind of life style right now, because I never feel good > enough to do much of anything. > I’ve been struggling with my weight for ages, and apparently, a lot of > people lose a lot of weight on c-pap machine because lack of sleep messes > up your metabolism and saps the energy out of you. I think it is going to > make a big difference for me. Also had a thyroid problem taken care of > two years ago, and had hoped for great results then, but only had some > areas that improved. Still had pain and fatigue…although a little less > pain, a little less fatigue.. > So, I’m working on one problem at a time. I get my six > month post viral load test this month and really feel optimistic. I’m > thinking that maybe most of the pain and > fatigue, for the past ten years, was more related to the sleep apnea, then > the HCV….but that probably contributed too. > Chicken or the Egg?? > So, I have been happy all day, cheerful, more energetic then I have felt > in years. This is > the best day I’ve had in years….and hoping it just keeps getting better. > Guess I just wanted to share my joy in life right now and let people know > to keep looking for answers, no matter how bleak things look at times. > Now if I can just get this knee fixed, and my teeth straightened….. : ) > LOL Imagine, late 50’s with > braces….I think I’ll do it. > First step….kill the dragon. Hugs, > Susie > —-== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet > News==—- > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ > Newsgroups > —-= East and West-Coast Server Farms – Total Privacy via Encryption > =—-

Response:

Susie, sounds like a plan, and a good one. I’m so glad you’re feeling "up". You strike me as an honest, hard-working person, and deserve whatever good may come your way. Good girl, give em’ hell. Rooting for you, cuz us island folk have got to stick together. John aka Red Dwarf on Oahu,Eva side. "Susie Quill" wrote in message

Response:

Hi! For the new ones that don’t know me, I’ll give a little history. Started treatment last march, finished in September for type 2b. Missed some work, but managed to keep working thru treatment. I started treatment because of the fatigue and showing some liver damage. Had dx. of fibromyalgia ten years ago which is a pain and sleep disorder. Thought the fibro might have been triggered by the HCV. Since life wasn’t getting any better, too tired to do much, work and sleep, sleeping my life away in front of the tv at night, getting up tired, going thru the day tired, I thought getting rid of HCV would be the answer to getting rid of the fibro. At end of treatment in September, still had the fibro with sleep disorder and pain, but felt a little better. Attitude was a lot better, so apparently the HCV affected central nervous system. The depression I’ve had for years evaporated. Someone suggested I might have sleep apnea. So flew to philippines for testing in November. Much cheaper then getting it done here. I didn’t get the machine until a couple weeks ago. Today, I woke up a little tired, but found that I had so much more energy and less fatigue throughout the day. I still had enough energy tonight where I would have loved to have gone out to do something….but I don’t have that kind of life style right now, because I never feel good enough to do much of anything. I’ve been struggling with my weight for ages, and apparently, a lot of people lose a lot of weight on c-pap machine because lack of sleep messes up your metabolism and saps the energy out of you. I think it is going to make a big difference for me. Also had a thyroid problem taken care of two years ago, and had hoped for great results then, but only had some areas that improved. Still had pain and fatigue…although a little less pain, a little less fatigue.. So, I’m working on one problem at a time. I get my six month post viral load test this month and really feel optimistic. I’m thinking that maybe most of the pain and fatigue, for the past ten years, was more related to the sleep apnea, then the HCV….but that probably contributed too. Chicken or the Egg?? So, I have been happy all day, cheerful, more energetic then I have felt in years. This is the best day I’ve had in years….and hoping it just keeps getting better. Guess I just wanted to share my joy in life right now and let people know to keep looking for answers, no matter how bleak things look at times. Now if I can just get this knee fixed, and my teeth straightened….. : ) LOL Imagine, late 50’s with braces….I think I’ll do it. First step….kill the dragon. Hugs, Susie —-== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups —-= East and West-Coast Server Farms – Total Privacy via Encryption =—-

Response:

High nasal airway resistance (NAR) has been reported in Marfan's syndrome.

admin — Wed, 02 Mar 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

"Wim Vogelaar" wrote: >> It’s always better to get the opinion of more than one doctor. >I am not sure about what you are suggesting. Do you mean that I should have >contacted more physicians in the past, e.g. in 2003? If yes, then I am >curious to know what advise you would have given me at the end of 2003. What >kind of additional physician should I have contacted by that time? By that >time the word apnea was unknown to me.

I’d known for a long time that I stopped breathing when I slept, but I first heard of "Sleep Apnea" around 1982. My doctor at the time knew about it, but said that I couldn’t have it because I didn’t fall asleep during the day. Eight years, and two doctors, later, I finally got a referral for a sleep test. I’m sure that any doctor would have recognized the symptoms in 2003, I’m not sure that they’d have known enough to treat you for it. Tom

Response:

"Wim Vogelaar" wrote: >> a ResMed Mirage Full-face mask. They come in two series, and a >> bewildering array of sizes, so it’s important to have it >> professionally fitted. >Today I have bought a ResMed Mirage full-face mask. However, all maks I >tried were leaking. The lady told me that it is more difficult to find a >full face mask that fits than a nasal mask.

That’s probably true, but there’s no reason to accept a mask that leaks. FWIW, people here with Mirage masks say that the looser the fit, the better the mask works. >So I tried to select the one >that is not leaking too much. Now I intend to start the night with the nasal >mask (ResMed Mirage Vista) and when the nose gets blocked during the night I >will change the mask (and the mask type setting in the machine) and try the >FFM.

Please let us know how it works. >I tried already with maximum heating in combination with water. But it >didn’t help to prevent that my nose was blocked at one side.

It may take a few nights to start working, but most of us find that heated humidity clears up many long-standing sinus problems. (Fair warning, I know nothing about Marfan syndrome.) Tom

Response:

> FWIW, people here with Mirage masks say that the looser the fit, the > better the mask works. > Please let us know how it works.

This night I used the Full Face Mask. See graph at: http://home.wanadoo.nl/w.h.vogelaar/marfan/apnea/whv20050303.htm This full face mask was leaking (causing wind through the beard). But strange enough the graph shows less leaking during that last hour. So the leaking through the beard is apparently seen as part of the normal leaking through the vent of the mask. Possibly because the leaking is quite constant, without a lot of fluctuations.

Response:

> Most people with apnea have a blockage at the rear of their nasal cavity > where it joins with the back of the mouth. The muscles relax, and this > closes to air from the nose, which the CPAP, of course, has enough > pressure > to overcome.

what??? for MOST people, the blockage is not in the nose, so if the air is going in your nose and out your mouth, it hasn’t GOT to the blockage yet……… This is dangerous info to be giving out I have no idea where you got the idea that apnea is just a nasal thing……but in the majority of cases, it’s terribly wrong — Beth in Australia ————————– Unless stated otherwise, anything I say here is my opinion only – I am not a medically trained professional FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://talhost.net/sleep Newsgroup Archives http://talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles

Response:

On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 11:48:46 +0100, "Wim Vogelaar" wrote: >> FWIW, people here with Mirage masks say that the looser the fit, the >> better the mask works. >> Please let us know how it works. >This night I used the Full Face Mask. See graph at: >http://home.wanadoo.nl/w.h.vogelaar/marfan/apnea/whv20050303.htm This full >face mask was leaking (causing wind through the beard). But strange enough >the graph shows less leaking during that last hour. So the leaking through >the beard is apparently seen as part of the normal leaking through the vent >of the mask. Possibly because the leaking is quite constant, without a lot >of fluctuations.

Wim, these results are not horrendously bad. The Spirit will actually do a reasonable job with leak of up to 0.7 l/s, although it is best to try to keep it below 0.4. That may not be possible with a FFM. The machine does know the difference between leak through the vent and other leak. This is because the pressure and the rate of flow through the vent for that pressure are known – you tell the machine that with the mask choice setting. Anything else is leak through other means. — .andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Response:

Wim, I think what Beth meant is the risk of inducing Central Apneas by using an XPAP at a setting that is higher than you need. I have no particular knowledge about this, but I have seen it discussed many times here. I suggest you go to the Google version of this newsgroup and do a search on "Central Apnea" Anna in article 42262927$0$29525$dbd4b…@news.wanadoo.nl, Wim Vogelaar at wim.vogelaar at mc2world dot org wrote on 3/2/05 1:59 PM: >> so did you go ahead and buy a CPAP wihtout a sleep study? you were having >> trouble getting one weren’t you? you’re takign a huge risk if you did, >> your lack of knowledge about apnea & CPAP is dangerous > Beth, thanks for your words and warning. I understand what you are saying. > What you are saying might be applicable for 80 % of the patients. But not > for all. Especially not for persons with a disease of which doctors have not > much knowledge.

Snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> So what is dangerous. In my case it is very dangerous to do and believe what > regular doctors are saying. Just because I am trying and doing things I > discover what is wrong. Thank God! > It is like you are on the roof of a burning building. You are considering to > jump. But everybody is saying "don’t do that, you could break your leg". As > if staying on the roof would be more safe. > Wim Vogelaar, http://home.wanadoo.nl/w.h.vogelaar/marfan/apnea/

Response:

> It’s always better to get the opinion of more than one doctor.

Hi Buck, I am not sure about what you are suggesting. Do you mean that I should have contacted more physicians in the past, e.g. in 2003? If yes, then I am curious to know what advise you would have given me at the end of 2003. What kind of additional physician should I have contacted by that time? By that time the word apnea was unknown to me. It was just in 2005-01-10 that I discovered the word apnea for the first time. You can read a description of my symptoms at that time (2003) at page: http://home.wanadoo.nl/w.h.vogelaar/marfan/ I am curious about what your advice would have been.

Response:

> Mouth breathing, with any nasal-only mask, will decrease the benefits > of any sort of PAP. If you can’t get it under control then I’d suggest > a ResMed Mirage Full-face mask. They come in two series, and a > bewildering array of sizes, so it’s important to have it > professionally fitted.

Today I have bought a ResMed Mirage full-face mask. However, all maks I tried were leaking. The lady told me that it is more difficult to find a full face mask that fits than a nasal mask. So I tried to select the one that is not leaking too much. Now I intend to start the night with the nasal mask (ResMed Mirage Vista) and when the nose gets blocked during the night I will change the mask (and the mask type setting in the machine) and try the FFM. > Chances are that your sinuses are actually reacting to the drier air > at lower temperatures. Adding humidity, you won’t even notice the > heat, will almost certainly improve things.

I tried already with maximum heating in combination with water. But it didn’t help to prevent that my nose was blocked at one side. But that is possibly caused by the characteristic of the Marfan syndrome. I was surprised that I didn’t feel warm air. But I realise that the temperature is only a few degrees higher than that of the temperature in the room. So possibly you cannot really feel that the air is heated.

Response:

On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 21:59:26 +0100, Wim Vogelaar wrote: > So what is dangerous. In my case it is very dangerous to do and believe > what > regular doctors are saying. Just because I am trying and doing things I > discover what is wrong. Thank God!

It’s always better to get the opinion of more than one doctor.

Response:

"Wim Vogelaar" wrote: >1) Is an xpap machine a good solution for high nasal resistance >problems? If yes, what kind of mask is desirable (in combination with ResMed >AutoSet Spirit) ? Is that a normal practice with xpap to breath mainly via >your mouth?

Mouth breathing, with any nasal-only mask, will decrease the benefits of any sort of PAP. If you can’t get it under control then I’d suggest a ResMed Mirage Full-face mask. They come in two series, and a bewildering array of sizes, so it’s important to have it professionally fitted. >2) Can I use the heating feature of the ResMed AutoSet Spirit without >putting water in the humidifier. Or will it damage the apparatus? I think >that warm dry air will be better for me.

Chances are that your sinuses are actually reacting to the drier air at lower temperatures. Adding humidity, you won’t even notice the heat, will almost certainly improve things. Tom

Response:

Humidity without heat is okay for some folks, particularly at lower pressures. Heat without humidity is a bad idea. Heated humidity will probably help with the blockage issues. Mouth breathing is bad. Try a serious (i.e. wide elastic band) chinstrap. Chinupstrip is largely a hoax. regards, eric pearson nonono.ericp1.non…@nonono.fuse.net On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 12:16:28 +0100, "Wim Vogelaar" wrote: >I am using now since two days the ResMed AutoSet Spirit. I am using it in >combination with the ResMed Mirage Vista mask (standard). My biggest problem >is to keep my mouth closed. I tried already with a chinup strip >(http://www.chinupstrip.com/ ). But even that strip didn’t help enough. >I now think that my problems are (partially?) caused by high nasal >resistance. My nose blocks easily. Without the xpap the nose blocks when the >air in the bedroom is too cold (colder than 18 degrees Celsius). >The end of March a visit to the ENT physician is planned. Then those >assumptions can be checked. >Meanwhile I have two questions: >1) Is an xpap machine a good solution for high nasal resistance >problems? If yes, what kind of mask is desirable (in combination with ResMed >AutoSet Spirit) ? Is that a normal practice with xpap to breath mainly via >your mouth? >2) Can I use the heating feature of the ResMed AutoSet Spirit without >putting water in the humidifier. Or will it damage the apparatus? I think >that warm dry air will be better for me. >I am a patient with the syndrome of Marfan. On page >http://taylorandfrancis.metapress.com/app/home/contribution.asp?wasp=… >is written: >High nasal airway resistance (NAR) has been reported in Marfan’s syndrome, >and this appears to contribute to the development of obstructive sleep >apnoea in these patients. >On page http://www.utmb.edu/otoref/Grnds/nasala.htm you can read : >Rapid maxillary expansion (RME), also known as rapid palatal expansion, is >an orthodontic treatment to broaden the maxillary arch which also serves to >widen the nasal vault and improve nasal patency. The treatment is >nonoperative and can be accomplished in about 3 weeks in patients 3 to 20 >years of age. Many orthodontists feel RME is indicated for posterior >crossbite but contraindicated in patients with normal occlusion, but slow >expansion of the mandibular arch can be performed if both the maxillary and >mandibular arches are constricted. RMA alone is seldom sufficient to improve >severe cases of nasal obstruction. >However, I have age 60, so I have to look for another solution. >Wim Vogelaar, http://home.wanadoo.nl/w.h.vogelaar/marfan/apnea/

Response:

> so did you go ahead and buy a CPAP wihtout a sleep study? you were having > trouble getting one weren’t you? you’re takign a huge risk if you did, > your lack of knowledge about apnea & CPAP is dangerous

Beth, thanks for your words and warning. I understand what you are saying. What you are saying might be applicable for 80 % of the patients. But not for all. Especially not for persons with a disease of which doctors have not much knowledge. In short the history of my illness. In 1990 I got numbness on my feet. In 1991 the neurologist said; I don’t know the cause, perhaps it is MS. Don’t bother too much as long as you can stand on your toes and on the back of your feet. In January 2001 I felt at certain moments so bad that I decided to stop with my work (programmer/analyst). I went to my family doctor. He send me to the cardiologist. The cardiologist thought that I had the syndrome of Marfan. So I visited a Marfan physician. In January 2003 I got the DNA report, so it was confirmed. My Marfan physician said always that my health problems were not Marfan related. So the next physician was a neurologist. Some tests were done but no explanation for my health problems. That news I got in June 2003. From that time my family doctor had no more suggestions about finding a solution. He went in the passive mode. In December 2004 my molars were pulled at the right down side. I become very ill at irregular days. I took antibiotics (as advised for persons with Marfan who are visiting a dentist) but from time to time I was still very ill. 2004-12-21 I was so ill that I thought it is better now to call my doctor before I become unconscious. But my doctor refused to do something. I asked my son to bring me to the first aid of a large hospital here in the neighbourhood. There they did some testing, called my family doctor, after which the first aid doctor told me to visit a psychologist to learn to live with my pain. Then in January I found out that my problems were most likely caused by apnea. Then in February I visited my pulmonologist. He explained me the very very long route to an eventual xpap machine. I didn’t want to do that. Just because I am having so many days that I feel really very bad. I think that it has to do with my heart. Now after two days with this xpap machine I see that the numbness in my feet is diminishing. I feel also better. I discover now also that the problems are most likely caused by high nasal resistance. A typical characteristic of persons with the syndrome of Marfan. So what is dangerous. In my case it is very dangerous to do and believe what regular doctors are saying. Just because I am trying and doing things I discover what is wrong. Thank God! It is like you are on the roof of a burning building. You are considering to jump. But everybody is saying "don’t do that, you could break your leg". As if staying on the roof would be more safe. Wim Vogelaar, http://home.wanadoo.nl/w.h.vogelaar/marfan/apnea/

Response:

> 1) Is an xpap machine a good solution for high nasal resistance > problems? If yes, what kind of mask is desirable (in combination with > ResMed AutoSet Spirit) ? Is that a normal practice with xpap to breath > mainly via your mouth?

if you’re on cpap and breathing through your mouth, you’re not getting effective treatment, sounds like you should look into getting a full face mask , then it wont’ matter if you breathe through your mouth. so did you go ahead and buy a CPAP wihtout a sleep study? you were having trouble getting one weren’t you? you’re takign a huge risk if you did, your lack of knowledge about apnea & CPAP is dangerous — Beth in Australia ————————– Unless stated otherwise, anything I say here is my opinion only – I am not a medically trained professional FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://talhost.net/sleep Newsgroup Archives http://talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles

Response:

I am using now since two days the ResMed AutoSet Spirit. I am using it in combination with the ResMed Mirage Vista mask (standard). My biggest problem is to keep my mouth closed. I tried already with a chinup strip (http://www.chinupstrip.com/ ). But even that strip didn’t help enough. I now think that my problems are (partially?) caused by high nasal resistance. My nose blocks easily. Without the xpap the nose blocks when the air in the bedroom is too cold (colder than 18 degrees Celsius). The end of March a visit to the ENT physician is planned. Then those assumptions can be checked. Meanwhile I have two questions: 1) Is an xpap machine a good solution for high nasal resistance problems? If yes, what kind of mask is desirable (in combination with ResMed AutoSet Spirit) ? Is that a normal practice with xpap to breath mainly via your mouth? 2) Can I use the heating feature of the ResMed AutoSet Spirit without putting water in the humidifier. Or will it damage the apparatus? I think that warm dry air will be better for me. I am a patient with the syndrome of Marfan. On page http://taylorandfrancis.metapress.com/app/home/contribution.asp?wasp=… is written: High nasal airway resistance (NAR) has been reported in Marfan’s syndrome, and this appears to contribute to the development of obstructive sleep apnoea in these patients. On page http://www.utmb.edu/otoref/Grnds/nasala.htm you can read : Rapid maxillary expansion (RME), also known as rapid palatal expansion, is an orthodontic treatment to broaden the maxillary arch which also serves to widen the nasal vault and improve nasal patency. The treatment is nonoperative and can be accomplished in about 3 weeks in patients 3 to 20 years of age. Many orthodontists feel RME is indicated for posterior crossbite but contraindicated in patients with normal occlusion, but slow expansion of the mandibular arch can be performed if both the maxillary and mandibular arches are constricted. RMA alone is seldom sufficient to improve severe cases of nasal obstruction. However, I have age 60, so I have to look for another solution. Wim Vogelaar, http://home.wanadoo.nl/w.h.vogelaar/marfan/apnea/

Response:

Computer Problems

admin — Sat, 02 Oct 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Sorry I haven’t been around lately. I’m in right now, but it won’t last. Computer problems still. Telephone company said it was my modum. Just brought back from computer repair, and it was working o.k. their. Disconnects as soon as I send a message, or try to download e-mails. I thought it was my telephone line after the typhoon. However, it works for surfing the web without disconnecting. So, I dunno. I’ll be around when I can. Hope everyone is doing well. I’ll try to read some e-mails and maybe say something in response, until I get disconnected again. Hugs, Susie —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

On Sat, 2 Oct 2004 19:29:15 +1000, "Susie Quill" , in message ID <415e74e…@corp.newsgroups.com>, in the newsgroup alt.support.hepatitis-c wrote: >Disconnects as soon as I send a message, or try to download e-mails. I >thought it was my telephone line after the typhoon. However, it works for >surfing the web without disconnecting. So, I dunno.

I see you are using Outlook Express Susie. The obvious one too look for is the window that appears while "sending/receiving". Is the "hang up when finished" box unticked? If there is no such tickbox, click on the "DETAILS" tab to make it appear first then untick it. (I think Americans use the word "check" for our UK "tick") This may be the first thing you looked for but I’ve no idea how much you know about computers and software. I imagine you are feeling a bit better now Susie. That stuff takes a while to get out of the system doesn’t it. I’m not 100% yet every day but I don’t doubt it will happen. How are you? — Paul Use the reply by email facility in your newsreader to send email

Response:

You missed my taco salad last night, Susie. :-) Elmo http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

Response:

"Paul" wrote in message

news:8vvsl0pjgm3miojrk4jmhpi359edo8dsl6@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Sat, 2 Oct 2004 19:29:15 +1000, "Susie Quill" > , in message ID > <415e74e…@corp.newsgroups.com>, in the newsgroup > alt.support.hepatitis-c wrote: >>Disconnects as soon as I send a message, or try to download e-mails. I >>thought it was my telephone line after the typhoon. However, it works for >>surfing the web without disconnecting. So, I dunno. > I see you are using Outlook Express Susie. > The obvious one too look for is the window that appears while > "sending/receiving". Is the "hang up when finished" box unticked? > If there is no such tickbox, click on the "DETAILS" tab to make it > appear first then untick it. (I think Americans use the word "check" > for our UK "tick") > This may be the first thing you looked for but I’ve no idea how much > you know about computers and software. > I imagine you are feeling a bit better now Susie. That stuff takes a > while to get out of the system doesn’t it. I’m not 100% yet every day > but I don’t doubt it will happen. > How are you? > — > Paul

Hi Paul, Actually, you assessment of the problem was accurate (one of about 3 problems actually). I have no idea how that box got checked (ticked). Don’t understand why the computer section of the telephone company didn’t pick that up right away, or the computer repair place the first time I took it in. Oh well. Thanks for asking how I am. My fibromyalgia is still dealing me a fit. I’m still in a lot of pain. Guess I’ve been doubting that I’ve cleared this crap lately since I’ve been in so much fibro. pain and still having trouble trying to get a deep nights sleep. Just thought I’d be feeling a bit better by now. Lower back is killing me. I need to get an order for a new viral load. Haven’t had it done yet. We are so short of doctors that I know I can’t get an appointment, and I hate to bother them on the nursing units. I’ll do it though cause this is going to worry me until a get confirmation that I’m still cleared. I have an appointment in the philippines for a sleep study, and a complete physical with a bone density scan (I’ve never had one and I’m afraid the riba may have thinned my bones out some. We don’t have a machine for this here. I thought that if I’m still clear on the virus, but still can’t get a good nights sleep, that maybe I have a sleep disorder that a breathing machine would help with. C pap or some such name I think. I’ve thought about it, and if I haven’t cleared, I couldn’t go back on treatment right now. I have almost no sick leave left and am too sick of being sick. I think I’d try to wait now until something comes out to replace riba. I’m still glad i gave it a try and I hope it took, but if it didn’t, I’ll just have to wait until retirement to try it again probably. Have you had your follow-up viral load yet?? I don’t remember. My mind is not as foggy, which is great, and I have a little more energy at work, but the problem is that I’ve never had a good memory anyway! Susie

Response:

On Thu, 7 Oct 2004 17:35:42 +1000, "Susie Quill" wrote:

Susie, so sorry to hear the fibromyalgia is still a problem. But, it’s early and perhaps things will improve yet. I really hope so. Good luck with the viral load test. I think it will be ok.

Response:

Oooooh. I love taco salad. I have a great recipe for a taco salad casserole if you are interested. However, it is one I use at the hospital for the cafeteria and it serves 50. The amounts could easily be reduced though. : ) Susie wrote in message

news:9790-415EA9A6-591@storefull-3257.bay.webtv.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You missed my taco salad last night, Susie. :-) > Elmo > http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

Response:

Sure, I’d enjoy the recipe. I’ll use it next time I have 50 people over for dinner. LOL. The one I use now serves only 5-10. Elmo http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

Response:

Tiredness

admin — Sun, 05 Sep 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

May I ask precisely and exactly what you mean by healthy? As a diabetic, your endocrine and digestive systems are messed, so whatever healthy means for the general population, it does not apply to us diabetics. feel great otherwise and have no other symptoms. Just fed up with being tired, all other tests were okay. Any recs on how to combat the tiredness? TIA My levels have come down to 8 through weight loss and exercise,

If you don’t test daily, you don’t know what your levels are. See http://jennifer.flying.rat There is no better advice about testing on or off the net. my doc wants to see if further weight loss will bring it down again. I felt tired long before I was diagnosed

Tiredness is a common pre-diagnosis symptom, so you probably have been diabetic since before the tiredness started. and was tested for Thyroid amongst many other things and all was okay. Not on any meds nor testing. I don’t have sugar carvings, hypos, shakes, dizziness, infections or anything else. I am quite overweight and was told I was not producing enough insulin to rid the glucose,

If you are not producing enough insulin, why are you not on a sulphonylurea? If you are overweight your insulin resistance is probably too high. Why are you not on Metformin? Met has many benefits, losing weight for the first 12 months is one, a protective effect against CVD is another. mainly due to my body weight and lack of exercise. My weight is coming off nicely, not dieting just eating more sensibly and I have increased my exercise. I believe the doc has seen a big improvement and wants to see some more next time around. I know it will be an ongoing battle to keep my weight at a healthy level but I do intend to do this by taking up running again – I was never overweight then.

Eventually the exercise will reduce the tiredness. So would testing properly so that you know — I mean *really* know — what your glucose levels really are, and then take the necessary action. First action: find a different doctor. Your present doctor is happy to wait while YOU GET THE DAMAGE. Alan — de gustibus non disputandum est

Response:

QT…… how often do you test??? are you only doing a fasting test at the Dr’s office???/ because 8 is WAY too high still for a fasting test you are aiming for 5’s for your fasting test……. and after meals you don’t want to go higher than 6.5 at the 2 hour mark (after you START eating) glucophage is an excellent anti-heart attack med that i would be demanding from my doc at this point…… read Alan’s excellent posts to you on that matter kate — Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet /server irc.undernet.org — /join #Diabetic-Talk More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – this alarms me because it sounds like you don’t have a meter you need a meter to determine how foods are affecting your bg control and bad bg control will leave you feeling listless and very tired demand a meter and at LEAST 4 test strips a day from your Dr are you on ANY meds at all??? once you are on meds, then all your Rx items are free in the UK good luck kate I have recently been diagnosed as T2 and following D&E regime. I am constantly tired and was told this would improve with weight loss and exercise – it doesn’t appear to have. Due to see doc again in about a month to do another fasting test and decide whether meds is required. I eat healthy, May I ask precisely and exactly what you mean by healthy? As a diabetic, your endocrine and digestive systems are messed, so whatever healthy means for the general population, it does not apply to us diabetics. feel great otherwise and have no other symptoms. Just fed up with being tired, all other tests were okay. Any recs on how to combat the tiredness? TIA My levels have come down to 8 through weight loss and exercise, If you don’t test daily, you don’t know what your levels are. See http://jennifer.flying.rat There is no better advice about testing on or off the net. my doc wants to see if further weight loss will bring it down again. I felt tired long before I was diagnosed Tiredness is a common pre-diagnosis symptom, so you probably have been diabetic since before the tiredness started. and was tested for Thyroid amongst many other things and all was okay. Not on any meds nor testing. I don’t have sugar carvings, hypos, shakes, dizziness, infections or anything else. I am quite overweight and was told I was not producing enough insulin to rid the glucose, If you are not producing enough insulin, why are you not on a sulphonylurea? If you are overweight your insulin resistance is probably too high. Why are you not on Metformin? Met has many benefits, losing weight for the first 12 months is one, a protective effect against CVD is another. mainly due to my body weight and lack of exercise. My weight is coming off nicely, not dieting just eating more sensibly and I have increased my exercise. I believe the doc has seen a big improvement and wants to see some more next time around. I know it will be an ongoing battle to keep my weight at a healthy level but I do intend to do this by taking up running again – I was never overweight then. Eventually the exercise will reduce the tiredness. So would testing properly so that you know — I mean *really* know — what your glucose levels really are, and then take the necessary action. First action: find a different doctor. Your present doctor is happy to wait while YOU GET THE DAMAGE. Alan

Here is reasonably full list of Metformin advantages. Also be aware that a vitamin B12 supplement is required more often than not. a. Metformin reduces overall mortality rates among T2 diabetics http://tinyurl.com/69yjd b. Metformin improves cholesterol and triglycerides http://tinyurl.com/5errv c. Metformin cuts heart attack risk in T2 http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/issue132/item2.shtml d. Metformin reduces blood sugars http://www.diabetesnet.com/diabetes_treatments/metformin.php e. One way of interpreting the metformin results in the DPT-2 is that metformin protects dying beta cells which are the proximate cause of T2 http://www.niddk.nih.gov/welcome/releases/8_8_01.htm f. Metformin protects against the formation of Advanced Glycosylation End Products (A.G.E.) http://tinyurl.com/5tonv g. Finally, Metformin helps folks lose weight (though usually only in the first year) http://www.smart-drugs.net/ias-metformin-weightloss.htm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – this alarms me because it sounds like you don’t have a meter you need a meter to determine how foods are affecting your bg control and bad bg control will leave you feeling listless and very tired demand a meter and at LEAST 4 test strips a day from your Dr are you on ANY meds at all??? once you are on meds, then all your Rx items are free in the UK good luck kate — Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet /server irc.undernet.org — /join #Diabetic-Talk More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/ I have recently been diagnosed as T2 and following D&E regime. I am constantly tired and was told this would improve with weight loss and exercise – it doesn’t appear to have. Due to see doc again in about a month to do another fasting test and decide whether meds is required. I eat healthy, feel great otherwise and have no other symptoms. Just fed up with being tired, all other tests were okay. Any recs on how to combat the tiredness? TIA My levels have come down to 8 through weight loss and exercise, my doc wants to see if further weight loss will bring it down again. I felt tired long before I was diagnosed and was tested for Thyroid amongst many other things and all was okay. Not on any meds nor testing. I don’t have sugar carvings, hypos, shakes, dizziness, infections or anything else. I am quite overweight and was told I was not producing enough insulin to rid the glucose, mainly due to my body weight and lack of exercise. My weight is coming off nicely, not dieting just eating more sensibly and I have increased my exercise. I believe the doc has seen a big improvement and wants to see some more next time around. I know it will be an ongoing battle to keep my weight at a healthy level but I do intend to do this by taking up running again – I was never overweight then.

Response:

I have recently been diagnosed as T2 and following D&E regime. I am constantly tired and was told this would improve with weight loss and exercise – it doesn’t appear to have. Due to see doc again in about a month to do another fasting test and decide whether meds is required. I eat healthy, feel great otherwise and have no other symptoms. Just fed up with being tired, all other tests were okay. Any recs on how to combat the tiredness?

Once my BG had dropped below 11, my diabetes-related tiredness went with it, as did the running to the loo. I then was able to discover that I still had thyroxine-related tiredness…. There’s half-a-dozen nasty things that can make you tired; if you’re developing BG control and are still tired, a visit to the doc is a very good idea. Nicky T2 DX 5/2004

Response:

this alarms me because it sounds like you don’t have a meter you need a meter to determine how foods are affecting your bg control and bad bg control will leave you feeling listless and very tired demand a meter and at LEAST 4 test strips a day from your Dr are you on ANY meds at all??? once you are on meds, then all your Rx items are free in the UK good luck kate — Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet /server irc.undernet.org — /join #Diabetic-Talk More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My levels have come down to 8 through weight loss and exercise, my doc wants to see if further weight loss will bring it down again. I felt tired long before I was diagnosed and was tested for Thyroid amongst many other things and all was okay. Not on any meds nor testing. I don’t have sugar carvings, hypos, shakes, dizziness, infections or anything else. I am quite overweight and was told I was not producing enough insulin to rid the glucose, mainly due to my body weight and lack of exercise. My weight is coming off nicely, not dieting just eating more sensibly and I have increased my exercise. I believe the doc has seen a big improvement and wants to see some more next time around. I know it will be an ongoing battle to keep my weight at a healthy level but I do intend to do this by taking up running again – I was never overweight then. QT…… how often do you test??? are you only doing a fasting test at the Dr’s office???/ because 8 is WAY too high still for a fasting test you are aiming for 5’s for your fasting test……. and after meals you don’t want to go higher than 6.5 at the 2 hour mark (after you START eating) glucophage is an excellent anti-heart attack med that i would be demanding from my doc at this point…… read Alan’s excellent posts to you on that matter kate

I freely admit that the list I gave about Metformin(Glucophage) originates from OldAl. I don’t want to steal his thunder. Perish the thought! Alan — de gustibus non disputandum est

Response:

Hi QT Read my sig. I am a patient with a little experience, not a doctor. Check anything you read on usenet with your doctor. The doctor may not agree with us, but still check before you decide what to do. You’ve had some excellent advice from the other posters by now, and you’re probably starting to suffer from information overload. Let me try to summarise. First, unlike some, I agree with your doc’s intentions to get your weight down and institute an exercise routine before adding drugs. You’ve had this for longer than you realise and a short period without the meds won’t hurt if you use that period to change your lifestyle. However, if your doc doesn’t support that with adequate test-strip prescriptions to allow you to test properly (fifty in the first week, reducing gradually after that as you learn), my agreement disappears. Second, your diet may be "healthy" by non-diabetic standards, and it may be helping your weight loss. However, the only way to find out if it is healthy for YOU is to "test, test, test" as so many have recommended to you. The best way to do that is as recommended in Jennifer’s advice at http://jennifer.flyingrat.net/. That is by far the most important advice you have received here. So, lose that weight, exercise more (be careful of the joint stress in running), and test, test, test, to eliminate the dangerous foods and select the right foods. Then, if BGs and HbA1c don’t improve as you approach your target weight, consider further meds if the doc agrees. JMO Cheers, Alan (a different one:-), T2, Australia. Remove weight and carbs to email. — dx May 2002 , A1C 8.2=5.9, wt 117kg=95kg, Diet and not enough exercise. I have no medical qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because experience can be an expensive teacher. Everything in Moderation – Except Laughter.

Response:

i will repeat……. if you are on meds, your Rx supplies are FREE test strips are expensive see if you can start out on 500mg of glucophage/metformin — Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet /server irc.undernet.org — /join #Diabetic-Talk More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive: yes glucophage is an excellent anti-heart attack med that i would be demanding from my doc at this point…… read Alan’s excellent posts to you on that matter He doesn’t need to be "demanding" anything from his doc at this stage ( except perhaps enough test strips ). He is recently diagnosed, his bgs are tumbling with weight loss and exercise and, as he says, the doc wants to review the situation again in a months time before a decision is made about the regime he will be on. I’d say a T2 newbie has to battle with D&e for at least three months before they begin to get a g limmerofwhatT2diabetesisallabout. QT is a newbie and what he needs from us at the moment is help and advice on T2 diet through the immediate trial period when it will become apparent, by giving it a little TIME, whether D&e is going to be enough for him to start with. 1. Breakfast …. eggs or bacon or other protein with veg / salad, preferably low GI veg such as mushrooms. NO cereals, NO fruit juice. start with . 4. Snacks …..crackers and cube of cheese/ nuts / pepperami 5. NO fruit as yet, you will have to test with your meter to see what you can eat in what quantities. 6. Amounts are up to you, keep full on veg. 7. Exercise … the old story a minimum of two mile walk a day or equivalent. Muscle building, dumbells or weights, on alternate days. You need muscles – they use a lot of glucose. That’s a suggested baseline diet , if you hit target bgs on that you can start to build things back e.g small amounts of carbs with dinner but tested for the effect. A bit of fruit but tested for the effect. If you are not hitting target bgs after a month of that its time to ask for metformin and possibly another tablet as well. Tackle it aggressively at every stage. And remember it’s not about sugar, it’s about carbohydrates.

Response:

I was diagnosed in June. Diet is high fibre with plenty of starchy foods,

"starchy foods". There is our first problem. Do a BG test one hour after your next high starch meal. You’re in for a shock, particularly after breakfast. low fat, fruit

"fruit". There is the second problem. Ditto. and vegetables. I am losing weight by eating sensibly.

Great – subject to BGs. Which vegetables? Biscuits, crisps, pastry, chocolate are a thing of the past. I don’t crave for any of these and eat plenty of fresh veg, fruit, brown bread,

"brown bread". Number three. Multigrain is better, but only in moderation. Ditto on testing. probiotic yogurts, sugar free drinks, fish,

Fish is good; preferably oily and fresh rather than canned. white meat etc, all of which I enjoy. Since eating more healthy my levels have come down and I’ve lost over 18lbs in less than 8 weeks.

Great. Good steady control although it will slow a little after that initial loss – how far do you have to go to reach your target? I believe I can reduce my levels further as I’ve no intention of putting the weight back on. I have only had one symptom of T2 – tiredness. My cholesterol is ok, BP ok, don’t smoke and now exercise regularly. Positive Mental Attitude keeps me determined to control this rather than let it control me.

Read "test,test,test" then come back with more questions:-) Cheers Alan, T2, Australia. Remove weight and carbs to email. — dx May 2002 , A1C 8.2=5.9, wt 117kg(257)=95kg(209), Diet and not enough exercise. I have no medical qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because experience can be an expensive teacher. Everything in Moderation – Except Laughter.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive: yes I think he is possibly talking about an HbA1c First action: find a different doctor. Your present doctor is happy to wait while YOU GET THE DAMAGE. Alan QT has "come down" to 8 ( from high double figs presumably ) through D&E and the doc is sensibly giving him a trial period of another month to see if D&E will continue to work for him and whether he can reduce bgs and HbA1c still further without meds. Nowt wrong with that. Many T2s don’t want meds and fight to stave them off for as long as poss ( three regular posters on this ng spring to mind ). Although we might like to see them on Met asap. BTW when you say "diet" – what diet are you following QT? And when "recently" were you dxed ? I was diagnosed in June. Diet is high fibre with plenty of starchy foods, low fat, fruit and vegetables. I am losing weight by eating sensibly. Biscuits, crisps, pastry, chocolate are a thing of the past. I don’t crave for any of these and eat plenty of fresh veg, fruit, brown bread, probiotic yogurts, sugar free drinks, fish, white meat etc, all of which I enjoy. Since eating more healthy my levels have come down and I’ve lost over 18lbs in less than 8 weeks. I believe I can reduce my levels further as I’ve no intention of putting the weight back on. I have only had one symptom of T2 – tiredness. My cholesterol is ok, BP ok, don’t smoke and now exercise regularly. Positive Mental Attitude keeps me determined to control this rather than let it control me.

Response:

I was diagnosed in June. Diet is high fibre with plenty of starchy foods, low fat, fruit and vegetables.

Two problems there, imo. Too much starch, too much fruit. And your vegetables would be best if you eat less root vegetables, more dark green leafy. Medical opinions varies enormously about lo-fat or high-fat, but there is one consistent thing — avoid trans-fats and hydrogenated fats, which are often found in cheap margarines. It seems to me that your doctor is being RE-active. I think PRO-active is much better. Alan (the English one) — de gustibus non disputandum est

Response:

You’ve had a lot of suggestions on how to get your BGs down, but there has not been any focus on the tiredness. You didn’t mention when it is you feel tired. Is it all the time or is it at odd times? Before dx I had the usual tiredness problem – usually mid-afternoon and mid-morning. This is because the highest point for bg occurs about 90 mins after meals and if it is too high your body wants to shut down while it deals with the problem and you feel ridiculously and unexpectedly tired. However, if you are feeling tired all of the time it is far more likely to be something else – a sleep disorder like sleep apnea (or apnoea) for example which is quite common in those with weight problems. You do need to deal with the BGs issue, but I just want to be sure that it is also the cause of the tiredness. VBH T2/UK/A1c 5.8/ 1000Met/Dx Oct-03

Response:

16:07:06 Tue, 7 Sep 2004alt.support.diabetes.uk – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 00:04:31 Mon, 6 Sep 2004alt.support.diabetes.uk I was diagnosed in June. Diet is high fibre with plenty of starchy foods, low fat, fruit and vegetables. I am losing weight by eating sensibly. Biscuits, crisps, pastry, chocolate are a thing of the past. I don’t crave for any of these and eat plenty of fresh veg, fruit, brown bread, probiotic yogurts, sugar free drinks, fish, white meat etc, all of which I enjoy. Since eating more healthy my levels have come down and I’ve lost over 18lbs in less than 8 weeks. I believe I can reduce my levels further as I’ve no intention of putting the weight back on. I have only had one symptom of T2 – tiredness. My cholesterol is ok, BP ok, don’t smoke and now exercise regularly. Positive Mental Attitude keeps me determined to control this rather than let it control me. The medical profession generally recommends that T2s eat plenty of starchy food, but those of us who test our own BG levels quickly discover that this advice is bad in most cases. The reason for this is that although starchy foods are better for T2s than sugary foods (which is why the advice is given, I imagine), starchy foods still convert into blood glucose too quickly for most T2 metabolisms to cope with. That might be the case for some or many but the main problem is not the speed at which it convers but the duration of production. Starchy foods will last longer the consequence of which is that by the time you get to your next meal, there is still starch being processed and anything you consume will result in a higher BG level.

Yes, I would agree, that is an important factor as well. But the longer duration is touted as one of the advantages of starches, of course – the peak is spread out more (but not enough in most T2’s cases, and it is still far too high of course). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -If I decide to eat a spud or two, then I have to adjust either my next meal time, its composition and add more exercise or usually the whole lot together. As a result i rarely knowingly eat starchy foods unless I know I am about to use a lot of energy. The medical profession doesn’t seem to have caught up with this simple notion yet and I believe that their advice is tailored more towards making small improvements to the diets of the die-hard doughnut-eaters of this world than for helping people who are serious about controlling their diabetes. I agree with you there but recently have come to think that the real reason for their apparent lack of uptodate policies is far simpler to understand. We know how complex this thing is and the fact that every factor has an interaction with all the others which are constantly changing. Some medical professionals have a great deal of dificulty in getting their heads around it so what chance has Joe Bloggs 40-50 something fat bastard with a dull intellect? They try to make it easier for people like that. The brighter ones will self learn.

Yes, it is complex, and the advice will presumably evolve over time as generations retire or when some decent and headline-making research is done for once. I think its the wrong attitude and smacks of arrogance.

Yep. The public [Joe Bloggs] is far brighter and better informed than the government seems willing to accept or realise. That attitude spills down the chain of admin/command.

– London, UK Home Page: http://www.tucana.demon.co.uk Diet Success: http://www.tucana.demon.co.uk/diet.htm Mobile Phone Ring Tones: http://www.ringamoby.com "Everything I do and say with anyone makes a difference." Gita Bellin

Response:

18:59:34 Wed, 8 Sep 2004alt.support.diabetes.uk That might be the case for some or many but the main problem is not the speed at which it convers but the duration of production. Starchy foods will last longer the consequence of which is that by the time you get to your next meal, there is still starch being processed and anything you consume will result in a higher BG level. Yes, I would agree, that is an important factor as well. But the longer duration is touted as one of the advantages of starches, Only inso much as it means that you can feed before anticipated heavy exercise and just knoe that you aint going to run out of steam after an hour or so. I use this technique frequently.

I wonder sometimes if I should do something like this too. I go to the gym, but will sometimes run out of steam. However, I don’t usually load up on carbohydrates beforehand – at least, not much. I will sometimes have some beans and a slice of toast (tut! tut!) with my English breakfast so I suppose that counts; I leave it around 1.5 hours before going to the gym after eating, as my stomach protests too 1much if I go sooner. A bit of caffeine seems to help too. The big problem is that when I do go too low, I am incapacitated for about half an hour and I prefer to stick to specific feeding times so starches fit the bill.

I don’t have that problem as I am not on meds and my levels are reasonably stable these days, as long as I eat sensibly, which I do about 3/4 of the time. Seems to be enough. I seem to be able to exercise without getting any ‘low’ symptoms, anyway, except, perhaps, running out of energy sometimes in the gym – but I’m not sure that that has anything to do with my BG levels. After all, one can expect to get tired when exercising, so I don’t really know. Sometimes I’m OK, sometimes I tire easily. Sometimes I will try taking some ‘Touch of Fruit’ water with about 5g of carbs per 100ml in, but it makes no discernible difference on those days I am tiring. A couple of mouthfuls (literally) of Lucozade did make a difference once, but that stuff is so loaded I’m scared of it! The new Lucozade hydro-wotsit with only modest amounts of carbs seems OK, but again, makes little difference to my energy levels AFAICT. too (I forgot to ask about my HbA1c level today but I got the other figures): The first figure on each line is 6 months ago, the second from tests a couple of weeks ago: Total Cholesterol: 6; 5.4 LDL 4.23; 3.37 HDL 1.5; 1.78 Trigs 0.6; 0.55 So all moving in the right direction, it seems. The doctor suggested a low dose of statin but I felt that D&E seems to be doing the trick and we can see what happens in 3 months’ time. HbA1c was 5.4% six months ago, down from about 6, IIRC. My weight is down too – I’m getting slightly worried that it will go too low. I’m 167cm tall, weigh 58kg now (down over nearly 2 years from, er, 72kg or even more at times). of course – the peak is spread out more (but not enough in most T2’s cases, and it is still far too high of course). Well yes that’s true – for me anyway but as I said if I am doing a lot of work/exercise the peaks are no worse than when not taking starches.

Response:

09:33:07 Thu, 9 Sep 2004alt.support.diabetes.uk – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – too (I forgot to ask about my HbA1c level today but I got the other figures): Well that seems to verify that you are on the right track. The first figure on each line is 6 months ago, the second from tests a couple of weeks ago: Total Cholesterol: 6; 5.4 LDL 4.23; 3.37 HDL 1.5; 1.78 Trigs 0.6; 0.55 Well that seems to confirm it.

I think so. So all moving in the right direction, it seems. The doctor suggested a low dose of statin but I felt that D&E seems to be doing the trick and we can see what happens in 3 months’ time. This whole process takes time and you might be right to stay on D&E for a while longer especially if your improvement continues as it is. Doing the hard work to get there is all about mental conditioning as well.

Absolutely. Getting the mind in order so it can outweigh the lazy instincts with motivation from elsewhere is probably the key to the whole process (I’ve written a big section about that on my web page because I think that without that, diet and exercise is doomed to failure – as indeed, most dieters find out anyway). You are less likely to ‘backslide’ after a long period of hard work and effort to get there. But – do not be afraid to use meds if it gets too difficult. I went the same route as you and in the end had no alternative. There will come a point in time when you have worked your way to the best weight you can get and your diet is good and your BG is still too high. But you have to get there first. The advantage I found in going this route is that at my best weight/high exercise level the Bg I achieved was also the best I could do. It was simpler to determine the right med and ‘fine tune’ the dose. However, there are other problems that arrive with meds. The fight is never ending.

Yep, meds may be needed at some point. My BGs are usually OK, coming down to around 5.3 pre-prandial, normally. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -HbA1c was 5.4% six months ago, down from about 6, IIRC. My weight is down too – I’m getting slightly worried that it will go too low. I’m 167cm tall, weigh 58kg now (down over nearly 2 years from, er, 72kg or even more at times). Be very carefull not to go to low in weight and believe me I can tell you from personal experience – it is easy once you are on a roll. The worst possible scenario is that you burn off all the available fat and then you are in the shit!!! When you loose fat that is used as ‘internal padding’ [protecting ligaments/nerves/tendons from each other] it cannot be replaced. There is no treatment except to gain weight and that can only be done with a penalty involved. Trust me on this one because I am currently suffering the effects of such an event and believe me its a nightmare. Be cautious, do not let your weight go below what might be considered your ideal. If at that point your BG is still not acceptable then you need meds to help.

I think I am around my ideal now, and am a bit concerned that I will have to start eating more to keep it that way. I no longer have the appetite I once did, and I don’t want to be stuffing too many nasty carbs down my gob again! Sigh. :-/ — London, UK Home Page: http://www.tucana.demon.co.uk Diet Success: http://www.tucana.demon.co.uk/diet.htm Mobile Phone Ring Tones: http://www.ringamoby.com "Everything I do and say with anyone makes a difference." Gita Bellin

Response:

00:04:31 Mon, 6 Sep 2004alt.support.diabetes.uk I was diagnosed in June. Diet is high fibre with plenty of starchy foods, low fat, fruit and vegetables. I am losing weight by eating sensibly. Biscuits, crisps, pastry, chocolate are a thing of the past. I don’t crave for any of these and eat plenty of fresh veg, fruit, brown bread, probiotic yogurts, sugar free drinks, fish, white meat etc, all of which I enjoy. Since eating more healthy my levels have come down and I’ve lost over 18lbs in less than 8 weeks. I believe I can reduce my levels further as I’ve no intention of putting the weight back on. I have only had one symptom of T2 – tiredness. My cholesterol is ok, BP ok, don’t smoke and now exercise regularly. Positive Mental Attitude keeps me determined to control this rather than let it control me.

Hi QT, Other people have commented on this but I want to add my 2p’s worth as well, just for emphasis. The medical profession generally recommends that T2s eat plenty of starchy food, but those of us who test our own BG levels quickly discover that this advice is bad in most cases. The reason for this is that although starchy foods are better for T2s than sugary foods (which is why the advice is given, I imagine), starchy foods still convert into blood glucose too quickly for most T2 metabolisms to cope with. The medical profession doesn’t seem to have caught up with this simple notion yet and I believe that their advice is tailored more towards making small improvements to the diets of the die-hard doughnut-eaters of this world than for helping people who are serious about controlling their diabetes. I would say congratulations, though, on the weight loss, and on the dietary improvements in general. For my version of how to go about it, which may have some useful ideas for you, check out my web page about it, here: http://www.tucana.demon.co.uk/diet.htm There is a lot to read there, but pick and choose what you like and anyway I would advise anyone to develop their own techniques based on who they are and what they can manage. The appendix at the bottom has a lot of useful info in it. — London, UK Home Page: http://www.tucana.demon.co.uk Diet Success: http://www.tucana.demon.co.uk/diet.htm Mobile Phone Ring Tones: http://www.ringamoby.com "Everything I do and say with anyone makes a difference." Gita Bellin

Response:

12:40:36 Thu, 9 Sep 2004alt.support.diabetes.uk – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Absolutely. Getting the mind in order so it can outweigh the lazy instincts with motivation from elsewhere is probably the key to the whole process (I’ve written a big section about that on my web page because I think that without that, diet and exercise is doomed to failure – as indeed, most dieters find out anyway). Quite correct. I have in the recent past, concocted an 8 page information sheet with dieting in mind and aimed at the overweight. I was asked to do so by a member of my family who embarked on the instructions. Weight was lost and noticably so but now a few months later its back again. I was told that the diet instructions given worked but as soon as it was stopped the weight was on again. I pointed out that loosing weight was one thing but to keep it off you have to accept that you will never be able to revert back to your old ways of troughing. I also pointed out that its a lifestyle change and unless you are really sincere about making the change then you will never succede so long as there is a hole in yer head )

It is peculiar how such a simple notion seems to escape so many people. They want a quick fix, and treat a diet as if it is such a thing, whereas a little thought would surely tell them that there is, in this case, no such thing (yet). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Yep, meds may be needed at some point. My BGs are usually OK, coming down to around 5.3 pre-prandial, normally. Well that aint so bad. The lowes mine ever got pre meds was 6.0 – something. HbA1c was 5.4% six months ago, down from about 6, IIRC. My weight is down too – I’m getting slightly worried that it will go too low. I’m 167cm tall, weigh 58kg now (down over nearly 2 years from, er, 72kg or even more at times). I think I am around my ideal now, and am a bit concerned that I will have to start eating more to keep it that way. I no longer have the appetite I once did, and I don’t want to be stuffing too many nasty carbs down my gob again! Sigh. :-/ Test often and watch yer weight carefully. If you discover that you cannot maintain your weight without resultant increases in your BG’s then it might be time to consider alternatives. At the moment I am managing to balance my weight. its the old balance trick. Meds are fixed – diet is fixed so the only thing I have to vary according to BG readings is exercise. Of course it aint that simple and there are other factors which enable a cock up but at least I am not chasing things. Diagnosed 20/03/03 Type II D&E + Metformin 800 + Gliclazide MR 80 + Asprin 210lbs at Dx to BMI 166lbs achieved. Now 170 To mail: aspen at freeuk.com

I suppose I must watch the body fat percentage, ultimately. On that score, it is, AFAICT, still on the high side at around 20%. So, as yet, being underweight isn’t a problem… but both weight and BF% will be clues for me to watch over the coming months, I can see. — London, UK Home Page: http://www.tucana.demon.co.uk Diet Success: http://www.tucana.demon.co.uk/diet.htm Mobile Phone Ring Tones: http://www.ringamoby.com "Everything I do and say with anyone makes a difference." Gita Bellin

Response:

And if you do have sleep apnoea, weight loss and regular exercise will help that, too. Maggie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have recently been diagnosed as T2 and following D&E regime. I am constantly tired and was told this would improve with weight loss and exercise – it doesn’t appear to have. Due to see doc again in about a month to do another fasting test and decide whether meds is required. I eat healthy, feel great otherwise and have no other symptoms. Just fed up with being tired, all other tests were okay. Any recs on how to combat the tiredness? TIA You’ve had a lot of suggestions on how to get your BGs down, but there has not been any focus on the tiredness. You didn’t mention when it is you feel tired. Is it all the time or is it at odd times? Before dx I had the usual tiredness problem – usually mid-afternoon and mid-morning. This is because the highest point for bg occurs about 90 mins after meals and if it is too high your body wants to shut down while it deals with the problem and you feel ridiculously and unexpectedly tired. However, if you are feeling tired all of the time it is far more likely to be something else – a sleep disorder like sleep apnea (or apnoea) for example which is quite common in those with weight problems. You do need to deal with the BGs issue, but I just want to be sure that it is also the cause of the tiredness. VBH T2/UK/A1c 5.8/ 1000Met/Dx Oct-03 My sleep apnoea was diagnosed nearly 4 years ago after it had started affecting my work. I went through a battery of tests, all showing nothing, until my husband found an article on it, and told me that I frequently stop breathing whilst asleep. I mentioned that to the quack, who sent me to the local sleep clinic. The test is easy: you get a wristband with a neat little computer thingy in it and a soft alligator type clip that you put on one finger, just before you go to bed. Next day, you return the wristband and they print out a sheet that shows how much oxygen is floating around in your blood while you sleep. This tells them how often you stop breathing. Treatment is using a CPAP machine whilst sleeping. Sleep apnoea sufferers are most commonly overweight middle-aged men with a large collar size, particularly if they are heavy drinkers. I am a middle-aged woman who was massively overweight [now I'm only obese, but still losing weight], who used to be a bit too fond of the booze. [If I'm honest, I still am, I just don't indulge myself that much anymore.] There is some kind of link between DM and SA, although I don’t think anyone really knows what it is: they do crop up together often enough to be statistically significant. I think it would be worth discussing it with your doc. If you do have it, it ain’t going to help with your BG control, and it’s a nasty thing to have in it’s own right. By the time I got the CPAP machine, I was falling asleep at work, couldn’t concentrate, was having auditory hallucinations, and would sometimes have what I think was some kind of a partial "brain shutdown": I was aware of things going on around me, but couldn’t react to anything. The specialist thought I must have had it for several years by then. Sleep deprivation over any kind of long term is no picnic. Fortunately, all the symptoms disappeared after about a month of using the machine. Good luck, Maggie

– There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats. — Albert Schweitzer

Response:

Maggie….. i was diagnosed with sleep apnea about 4….. maybe 3??? years ago at 5′6" and 120 lbs……. i still had sleep apnea……. so it’s not just a size thing took me close to 2 yrs to get in for my sleep study because "i didn’t fit the profile" whatever!!!! i have an AutoPAP and run an average pressure of 14 now (was set at 8 by the sleep clinic on a ’split titration" study thank goodness i got the AutoPAP to prove i was being undertreated so many causes to our feeling tired….. diabetes isn’t everything kate — Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet /server irc.undernet.org — /join #Diabetic-Talk More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have recently been diagnosed as T2 and following D&E regime. I am constantly tired and was told this would improve with weight loss and exercise – it doesn’t appear to have. Due to see doc again in about a month to do another fasting test and decide whether meds is required. I eat healthy, feel great otherwise and have no other symptoms. Just fed up with being tired, all other tests were okay. Any recs on how to combat the tiredness? TIA You’ve had a lot of suggestions on how to get your BGs down, but there has not been any focus on the tiredness. You didn’t mention when it is you feel tired. Is it all the time or is it at odd times? Before dx I had the usual tiredness problem – usually mid-afternoon and mid-morning. This is because the highest point for bg occurs about 90 mins after meals and if it is too high your body wants to shut down while it deals with the problem and you feel ridiculously and unexpectedly tired. However, if you are feeling tired all of the time it is far more likely to be something else – a sleep disorder like sleep apnea (or apnoea) for example which is quite common in those with weight problems. You do need to deal with the BGs issue, but I just want to be sure that it is also the cause of the tiredness. VBH T2/UK/A1c 5.8/ 1000Met/Dx Oct-03 My sleep apnoea was diagnosed nearly 4 years ago after it had started affecting my work. I went through a battery of tests, all showing nothing, until my husband found an article on it, and told me that I frequently stop breathing whilst asleep. I mentioned that to the quack, who sent me to the local sleep clinic. The test is easy: you get a wristband with a neat little computer thingy in it and a soft alligator type clip that you put on one finger, just before you go to bed. Next day, you return the wristband and they print out a sheet that shows how much oxygen is floating around in your blood while you sleep. This tells them how often you stop breathing. Treatment is using a CPAP machine whilst sleeping. Sleep apnoea sufferers are most commonly overweight middle-aged men with a large collar size, particularly if they are heavy drinkers. I am a middle-aged woman who was massively overweight [now I'm only obese, but still losing weight], who used to be a bit too fond of the booze. [If I'm honest, I still am, I just don't indulge myself that much anymore.] There is some kind of link between DM and SA, although I don’t think anyone really knows what it is: they do crop up together often enough to be statistically significant. I think it would be worth discussing it with your doc. If you do have it, it ain’t going to help with your BG control, and it’s a nasty thing to have in it’s own right. By the time I got the CPAP machine, I was falling asleep at work, couldn’t concentrate, was having auditory hallucinations, and would sometimes have what I think was some kind of a partial "brain shutdown": I was aware of things going on around me, but couldn’t react to anything. The specialist thought I must have had it for several years by then. Sleep deprivation over any kind of long term is no picnic. Fortunately, all the symptoms disappeared after about a month of using the machine. Good luck, Maggie — There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats. — Albert Schweitzer

Response:

The interesting thing that I picked up from the consultant I saw was that most cases of sleep apnoea are picked up because the sufferer’s other half has threatened to ban him [less commonly her] from the conjugal bed because of snoring – not because of symptoms of sleep deprivation. But, hey, it’s just snoring, and that’s a joke, innit?

boyfriend……. woke up to being pelted with socks to wake me up to stop that trip and had a talk with my Dr who gave me a survey for HIM to fill out oh well……. i’m under CPAP treatment now…… things are much better and yes…… i had been so sleep deprived for so long, i didn’t realise how tired i was until i got treatment! kate — Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet /server irc.undernet.org — /join #Diabetic-Talk More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maggie….. i was diagnosed with sleep apnea about 4….. maybe 3??? years ago at 5′6" and 120 lbs……. i still had sleep apnea……. so it’s not just a size thing took me close to 2 yrs to get in for my sleep study because "i didn’t fit the profile" whatever!!!! i have an AutoPAP and run an average pressure of 14 now (was set at 8 by the sleep clinic on a ’split titration" study thank goodness i got the AutoPAP to prove i was being undertreated so many causes to our feeling tired….. diabetes isn’t everything kate

You don’t fit the profile both for being female and not being overweight. I don’t fit it for being female, but I do on the other counts. The quacks tend not to look for it in females generally, and even less so in females at a reasonable weight. That’s why I underwent various tests for 7 or 8 months before Alan [my Alan] showed me the article. As I understand it, when you go to sleep, many of the muscles in your body relax to a fairly extreme degree, including the various muscles around your windpipe. If you have sleep apnoea, they relax even more, to the point where the windpipe closes. You stop breathing, and after a while, the brain notices that it isn’t getting enough oxygen, and sends out "panic" signals, so you sort of snort and start breathing again. If you are sufficiently overweight to have fat deposits around the neck, then it takes less relaxation of the muscles to close the windpipe. If you drink at all heavily, you’ll relax a whole lot more and more easily [hence the expression "relaxed as a newt"!] The end result is that you never properly get to sleep, you don’t have REM or dream sleep, and you wake up feeling like you’ve been dragged backwards through a wet hedge. [You'll be aware of much of this, but others might not be.] The interesting thing that I picked up from the consultant I saw was that most cases of sleep apnoea are picked up because the sufferer’s other half has threatened to ban him [less commonly her] from the conjugal bed because of snoring – not because of symptoms of sleep deprivation. But, hey, it’s just snoring, and that’s a joke, innit? I think anyone who suspects that sleep apnoea might be their problem should push for the appropriate test. Maggie — There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats. — Albert Schweitzer

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have recently been diagnosed as T2 and following D&E regime. I am constantly tired and was told this would improve with weight loss and exercise – it doesn’t appear to have. Due to see doc again in about a month to do another fasting test and decide whether meds is required. I eat healthy, feel great otherwise and have no other symptoms. Just fed up with being tired, all other tests were okay. Any recs on how to combat the tiredness? TIA You’ve had a lot of suggestions on how to get your BGs down, but there has not been any focus on the tiredness. You didn’t mention when it is you feel tired. Is it all the time or is it at odd times? Before dx I had the usual tiredness problem – usually mid-afternoon and mid-morning. This is because the highest point for bg occurs about 90 mins after meals and if it is too high your body wants to shut down while it deals with the problem and you feel ridiculously and unexpectedly tired. However, if you are feeling tired all of the time it is far more likely to be something else – a sleep disorder like sleep apnea (or apnoea) for example which is quite common in those with weight problems. You do need to deal with the BGs issue, but I just want to be sure that it is also the cause of the tiredness. VBH T2/UK/A1c 5.8/ 1000Met/Dx Oct-03

My sleep apnoea was diagnosed nearly 4 years ago after it had started affecting my work. I went through a battery of tests, all showing nothing, until my husband found an article on it, and told me that I frequently stop breathing whilst asleep. I mentioned that to the quack, who sent me to the local sleep clinic. The test is easy: you get a wristband with a neat little computer thingy in it and a soft alligator type clip that you put on one finger, just before you go to bed. Next day, you return the wristband and they print out a sheet that shows how much oxygen is floating around in your blood while you sleep. This tells them how often you stop breathing. Treatment is using a CPAP machine whilst sleeping. Sleep apnoea sufferers are most commonly overweight middle-aged men with a large collar size, particularly if they are heavy drinkers. I am a middle-aged woman who was massively overweight [now I'm only obese, but still losing weight], who used to be a bit too fond of the booze. [If I'm honest, I still am, I just don't indulge myself that much anymore.] There is some kind of link between DM and SA, although I don’t think anyone really knows what it is: they do crop up together often enough to be statistically significant. I think it would be worth discussing it with your doc. If you do have it, it ain’t going to help with your BG control, and it’s a nasty thing to have in it’s own right. By the time I got the CPAP machine, I was falling asleep at work, couldn’t concentrate, was having auditory hallucinations, and would sometimes have what I think was some kind of a partial "brain shutdown": I was aware of things going on around me, but couldn’t react to anything. The specialist thought I must have had it for several years by then. Sleep deprivation over any kind of long term is no picnic. Fortunately, all the symptoms disappeared after about a month of using the machine. Good luck, Maggie — There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats. — Albert Schweitzer

Response:

Quite a bit on the 5th and 6th, but then……. nothing. Do you think this could be because he/she was given some REALLY good advice which wasn’t given by the quack, but which conflicted with the quacks "advice", and which would likely show him/her that her (I’ve decided:-) control wasn’t nearly as good as she thinks? Testing usually does that. Or am I just being a cynical bastard as usual? Beav

Response:

The strattera thing again…

admin — Sun, 27 Jun 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Yes it is. I did ask the shrink about possibly adding adderal to it, or trying a med that was a bit more engaging as far as energy levels go, but he is afraid that a stim med will cause my fibro pain to get worse, as they can tend to give one neck and shoulder tightness, (which is a major area of pain for me.) My doc and shrink want me to see a psych though for med management. Maybe they’ll get things straightened out that way. Thank you for your imput!

FWIW, I’ve found Focalin to have the fewest physical side effects of the stims. I’m currently giving Strattera a try as the traditional stims tend to leave me a bit overfocused, making it easy for me to get stuck on doing just one thing. So far, I’m pretty impressed with it.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Getting started is always hard. I didn’t notice any effect from the meds. But one day I picked up one of my college texts. I’d taken the course and passed it. About 3 pages into it I was into material that I had never seen before. That was the first time that I realized that the meds were really doing something. hmmm, thats interesting…so you were enabled to get more out of the effort that you put in.

It was more that I was holding focus on "uninteresting" material a lot longer without really being aware that I was doing it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is Strattera the first med you’ve tried for ADHD? Yes it is. I did ask the shrink about possibly adding adderal to it, or trying a med that was a bit more engaging as far as energy levels go, but he is afraid that a stim med will cause my fibro pain to get worse, as they can tend to give one neck and shoulder tightness, (which is a major area of pain for me.) My doc and shrink want me to see a psych though for med management. Maybe they’ll get things straightened out that way. Thank you for your imput! Personally I had a bad experience with Strattera and I’ve seen enough other reports of bad experiences to urge caution with its use–its main reason for existence is as a "politically correct" alternative to the stimulants. I understand that some physicians do prescribe stimulants to counter the fatigue associated with fibromyalgia, so it’s something to investigate. What kind of bad experience have you had with strattera?

I thought I’d told the whole story on the newsgroup but apparently it was all in email–I’m not finding it when I google. The short version is that I started talking to people who weren’t there, and they started answering. My shrink is ADD himself and takes strattera and swears by it. You are right, some docs will prescribe stimulants for the fatigue that comes with fibro. I am unlucky enough to not have one though. He is also very light handed on handling the pain part of it too. We have tried a lot of different meds, but he will only go so far. Most people I know with fibro take way more meds, and stronger meds than I do. Changing docs really isnt an option, so I hope that when I get to see a psychiatrist that maybe something positive can be done.

I have a good friend who has that same problem (light handed on the pain meds). I don’t know fibromyalgia from the inside but if you’re experiencing anything like she’s experiencing, I do feel for you. I think that this has been one of the unintended consequences of the "war on drugs"–physicians are scared to death that one of their patients might become addicted to something. Some of them don’t have any common sense about it–my friend at one time was charge nurse in a mental hospital (and before anybody makes any comments about "was" she quit when she got married) and thus had a key to a locker full of just about anything she might have wanted–if she didn’t abuse it then it doesn’t seem likely that she’ll start now. She had to go back to work a while back and she’s up for a position in one of the larger general hospitals right now, maybe if she gets it she’ll be able to see someone who has more sense. Mrs. H –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

– –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Response:

To me "lack of energy" is a red flag–have you been evaluated for a sleep disorder? Some sleep disorders produce symptoms similar to those of ADHD, with the addition of chronic exhaustion.

Yeah, I have been evaluated for a sleep disorder, but it has been nearly 12 years ago. I was diagnosed with sleep apnea, which enabled me (or enabled me to have insurance pay anyway) to have my stomach stapled and since lost around 100 lbs. After that, the sleep problem went away. I do have fibromyalgia though which in some cases also mimics ADD in that all of us fibromites have a certain amt of brain fog. However, the symptoms of ADD that I show now, have been with me from childhood. Back then everyone just assumed that I was a slow learner and a disorganized mess. I am still a slow learner, but far from stupid. Once I catch on to a concept I can run with it. Its the catching on part that is the problem. oh… and I am still a disorganized mess… but I’m slowly working on that. With ADHD if the meds are working right and you aren’t getting side effects you probably won’t _feel_ any different. The only way you’ll know that it’s working is that you’ll be doing things that you wouldn’t or couldn’t do before you started taking it. Ask your family and friends if they notice any difference in you. ADDers are notoriously poor self-observers.

Ahh… what you say here is much the same as what my shrink has told me. I guess that its a case of…if there is a problem I have, which treatment can help with, I want it to work NOW. I have asked my husband if he sees any differenct in me… and his reply is ‘not much’. I would have to agree with him there. Inside my head I am considering making changes… thinking of what I need to do…planning possible courses of action… but I still can’t seem to get them from the ‘thinking about them’ phase into the ‘acting about them’ phase. This is VERY frustrating to both me and the hubby. I have a computer which I do all of my scheduling on. I set reminders for things that I have to do, keep notes on my doc appoinments, keep notes on my shrink apts so that I wont forget what we have worked on. I also have a palm pilot that I take everywhere which has the same info on it. Still though, my desk is a mess… bedside table is a mess…I have paperwork that needs to be done like last month, let alone today…and I kick my own arse daily for not getting enough important things done. Something that my mother used to say to me as a child comes to mind… She would tell me, "J… if you had a brain, you would be dangerous". This tells me that one… my mother was a jerk, and that two…I must have either acted before thinking a lot as a child, or just didn’t get anything at all done. Is Strattera the first med you’ve tried for ADHD?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To me "lack of energy" is a red flag–have you been evaluated for a sleep disorder? Some sleep disorders produce symptoms similar to those of ADHD, with the addition of chronic exhaustion. Yeah, I have been evaluated for a sleep disorder, but it has been nearly 12 years ago. I was diagnosed with sleep apnea, which enabled me (or enabled me to have insurance pay anyway) to have my stomach stapled and since lost around 100 lbs. After that, the sleep problem went away. I do have fibromyalgia though which in some cases also mimics ADD in that all of us fibromites have a certain amt of brain fog. However, the symptoms of ADD that I show now, have been with me from childhood. Back then everyone just assumed that I was a slow learner and a disorganized mess. I am still a slow learner, but far from stupid. Once I catch on to a concept I can run with it. Its the catching on part that is the problem. oh… and I am still a disorganized mess… but I’m slowly working on that. With ADHD if the meds are working right and you aren’t getting side effects you probably won’t _feel_ any different. The only way you’ll know that it’s working is that you’ll be doing things that you wouldn’t or couldn’t do before you started taking it. Ask your family and friends if they notice any difference in you. ADDers are notoriously poor self-observers. Ahh… what you say here is much the same as what my shrink has told me. I guess that its a case of…if there is a problem I have, which treatment can help with, I want it to work NOW. I have asked my husband if he sees any differenct in me… and his reply is ‘not much’. I would have to agree with him there. Inside my head I am considering making changes… thinking of what I need to do…planning possible courses of action… but I still can’t seem to get them from the ‘thinking about them’ phase into the ‘acting about them’ phase. This is VERY frustrating to both me and the hubby. I have a computer which I do all of my scheduling on. I set reminders for things that I have to do, keep notes on my doc appoinments, keep notes on my shrink apts so that I wont forget what we have worked on. I also have a palm pilot that I take everywhere which has the same info on it. Still though, my desk is a mess… bedside table is a mess…I have paperwork that needs to be done like last month, let alone today…and I kick my own arse daily for not getting enough important things done. Something that my mother used to say to me as a child comes to mind… She would tell me, "J… if you had a brain, you would be dangerous". This tells me that one… my mother was a jerk, and that two…I must have either acted before thinking a lot as a child, or just didn’t get anything at all done.

Getting started is always hard. I didn’t notice any effect from the meds. But one day I picked up one of my college texts. I’d taken the course and passed it. About 3 pages into it I was into material that I had never seen before. That was the first time that I realized that the meds were really doing something. Is Strattera the first med you’ve tried for ADHD? Yes it is. I did ask the shrink about possibly adding adderal to it, or trying a med that was a bit more engaging as far as energy levels go, but he is afraid that a stim med will cause my fibro pain to get worse, as they can tend to give one neck and shoulder tightness, (which is a major area of pain for me.) My doc and shrink want me to see a psych though for med management. Maybe they’ll get things straightened out that way. Thank you for your imput!

Personally I had a bad experience with Strattera and I’ve seen enough other reports of bad experiences to urge caution with its use–its main reason for existence is as a "politically correct" alternative to the stimulants. I understand that some physicians do prescribe stimulants to counter the fatigue associated with fibromyalgia, so it’s something to investigate. Mrs. H Mrs. H — –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

– –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Response:

hmmm, thats interesting…so you were enabled to get more out of the effort that you put in. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is Strattera the first med you’ve tried for ADHD? Yes it is. I did ask the shrink about possibly adding adderal to it, or trying a med that was a bit more engaging as far as energy levels go, but he is afraid that a stim med will cause my fibro pain to get worse, as they can tend to give one neck and shoulder tightness, (which is a major area of pain for me.) My doc and shrink want me to see a psych though for med management. Maybe they’ll get things straightened out that way. Thank you for your imput! Personally I had a bad experience with Strattera and I’ve seen enough other reports of bad experiences to urge caution with its use–its main reason for existence is as a "politically correct" alternative to the stimulants. I understand that some physicians do prescribe stimulants to counter the fatigue associated with fibromyalgia, so it’s something to

investigate. What kind of bad experience have you had with strattera? My shrink is ADD himself and takes strattera and swears by it. You are right, some docs will prescribe stimulants for the fatigue that comes with fibro. I am unlucky enough to not have one though. He is also very light handed on handling the pain part of it too. We have tried a lot of different meds, but he will only go so far. Most people I know with fibro take way more meds, and stronger meds than I do. Changing docs really isnt an option, so I hope that when I get to see a psychiatrist that maybe something positive can be done. Mrs. H – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Response:

Hey Mrs. H, Ok…I am really getting frustrated, and would love it if someone could tell me if this is a normal course of action for a med to take. (Did that make sense? *foggy*) I was put on 40 mg of strattera once/day about 2 weeks ago. I went to the doc 3 days ago and he asked me if I was feeling anything from it… as in more ability to focus, more drive to get things done etc. I told him that I feel NOTHING different. He increased my dose to 60mg/day. I still feel nothing.

I’m not sure how it works with Strattera but from what I’ve heard it can take weeks to work like SSRIs do, maybe it could take as long as a month or six weeks like I’ve had on an SSRI? If so it could take the same amount of time after each dose increase for any difference to be apparent. I’d give it some more time to work before giving something else a try. I still have very low energy…Can’t seem to get started on things… -or- if I do happen to get started, I am in my zone and nobody better bug me (hehe). I would quite happily sleep my days away if life would let me. I am also on Effexor for depression, and xanax and norco for pain (I have a chronic pain condition which is also currently inadequately managed, but thats another story). I think that the main issue really… is the lack of energy. I want to feel more awake… more alive… To be excited about life, instead of hoping that the day goes by quickly and uneventfully. I know that exercise would improve my energy levels, but it also increases my pain, and then sends me in a downward spiral.

Could it be the Xanax, your other med you use for pain or even the Effexor? I know that with Xanax you can feel a lack of energy even with long-term use. You might want to have a talk with the doc who prescribes your depression med if the Strattera doesn’t work out for you to see if you could try a more *stimulating* anti depressant than Effexor, if you aren’t anxious maybe something like Wellbutrin or Prozac might be able to offset the tiredness from the Xanax? Whenever you mix different meds it’s always a trial to find the right balance and can take some time to work out, you always need to change *one* med at a time so you can differentiate what causes what effect. As for exercise, can you think of anything you might be able to do slowly and carefully that won’t increase the pain a *lot*? I’ve found with any increase in exercise level I have a *temporary* increase in pain until my muscle strength increases and takes the added burden from my joints. It was *very* hard to get to the point where I actually dared to start moving(I think I developed a phobic reaction to exercise because of the pain I had) but I am slowly but surely seeing results. Up till now I’ve been trying to walk regularly for up to half an hour and have progressed to bicycling to the local shops a few times per week on top of my daily stretching and soon I’m hoping to join a(really expensive) fitness centre which has only physiotherapists as instructors so I can get the outside structure and guidance that my ADHD brain seems to need. A few years ago even progressive relaxation techniques where you tense a muscle at a time before relaxing it used to wear me out but now I’m able to take my dog for short walks despite her bad behaviour which I *am* working on! It’s gone depressingly slowly with a lot of mistakes made along the way due to my impulsivity in trying to do too much too fast and I must admit that I never thought I’d get this far but for me it’s been worth it! Since I don’t know the nature of your pain this could be totally useless for you and in that case I apologise… hopefully you can find a way to move without causing too much pain. Can anyone relate, or make suggestions, or kick my arse out of this funk or something? I’m sick of being stagnant and want to move on…I see what is ahead of me… I want to reach out for it, but I can never quite reach it.

{{{Mrs. H}}} That stagnant feeling really drags you down, doesn’t it? I really hope you can find a way to feel better soon! Take care, Vashti

Response:

Ok…I am really getting frustrated, and would love it if someone could tell me if this is a normal course of action for a med to take. (Did that make sense? *foggy*) I was put on 40 mg of strattera once/day about 2 weeks ago. I went to the doc 3 days ago and he asked me if I was feeling anything from it… as in more ability to focus, more drive to get things done etc. I told him that I feel NOTHING different. He increased my dose to 60mg/day. I still feel nothing. I still have very low energy…Can’t seem to get started on things… -or- if I do happen to get started, I am in my zone and nobody better bug me (hehe). I would quite happily sleep my days away if life would let me. I am also on Effexor for depression, and xanax and norco for pain (I have a chronic pain condition which is also currently inadequately managed, but thats another story). I think that the main issue really… is the lack of energy. I want to feel more awake… more alive… To be excited about life, instead of hoping that the day goes by quickly and uneventfully. I know that exercise would improve my energy levels, but it also increases my pain, and then sends me in a downward spiral. Can anyone relate, or make suggestions, or kick my arse out of this funk or something? I’m sick of being stagnant and want to move on…I see what is ahead of me… I want to reach out for it, but I can never quite reach it. Mrs. H

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ok…I am really getting frustrated, and would love it if someone could tell me if this is a normal course of action for a med to take. (Did that make sense? *foggy*) I was put on 40 mg of strattera once/day about 2 weeks ago. I went to the doc 3 days ago and he asked me if I was feeling anything from it… as in more ability to focus, more drive to get things done etc. I told him that I feel NOTHING different. He increased my dose to 60mg/day. I still feel nothing. I still have very low energy…Can’t seem to get started on things… -or- if I do happen to get started, I am in my zone and nobody better bug me (hehe). I would quite happily sleep my days away if life would let me. I am also on Effexor for depression, and xanax and norco for pain (I have a chronic pain condition which is also currently inadequately managed, but thats another story). I think that the main issue really… is the lack of energy. I want to feel more awake… more alive… To be excited about life, instead of hoping that the day goes by quickly and uneventfully. I know that exercise would improve my energy levels, but it also increases my pain, and then sends me in a downward spiral. Can anyone relate, or make suggestions, or kick my arse out of this funk or something? I’m sick of being stagnant and want to move on…I see what is ahead of me… I want to reach out for it, but I can never quite reach it.

To me "lack of energy" is a red flag–have you been evaluated for a sleep disorder? Some sleep disorders produce symptoms similar to those of ADHD, with the addition of chronic exhaustion. With ADHD if the meds are working right and you aren’t getting side effects you probably won’t _feel_ any different. The only way you’ll know that it’s working is that you’ll be doing things that you wouldn’t or couldn’t do before you started taking it. Ask your family and friends if they notice any difference in you. ADDers are notoriously poor self-observers. Is Strattera the first med you’ve tried for ADHD? Mrs. H

– –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Response:

Almost ready for tx

admin — Wed, 23 Jun 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

just tie a cinderblock around your fingers — lucky "stephenfallin" wrote in message

news:nW8Hc.27809$Xq4.23087@nwrddc02.gnilink.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I don’t know what a ibromyaligia is but could this be why I feel so horrible > even after detoxing from a mutiyear meth and xanax habit (it’s been over > five > months and I feel horrible!) I am learning a lot from you kindly folks that > my primary care physician either does not know about or does not wish to > expound upon. I had to beg him to do a confirmation test when my bloodwork > came back positive for HepC. And yes the confirmation test confirmed I have > the bug. If I had listened to my primary care physician I would not have > made an appointment to see a hemotologist this coming Friday. Are there new > treatment possibilities on the horizon? What are my options? I understand > that first I have to determine what my genome type is and that type 3 > responds best to presently available treatments. Any advice, suggestions? Or > should I just tie a cinderblock around my neck and jump in the Rappahannock > River (which probably would just make me wet and mad because the Rappohanock > down my way is where George Washington-if he ever really did the trick-was > supposed to have thrown a silver dollar across the river). It’s not too wide > and very shallow. Oh my, what to do…? And I believed the tour guide at > George Washington’s parent’s house when he told us that the original cherry > tree which George chopped down is still on the premises. What a geek. I had > better stand for something or I’ll fall for everything. Stephen > "Sbordone" wrote in message > news:uUPEc.10429$ju5.5959@twister.socal.rr.com… > > Hi SusyQ, > > Thanx for the kind words. Sorry about the late response. > > I do not always see the posts when I think I should. Must be because I’m > > using > > Outlook Express instead of a dedicated news reader. Perhaps it’s my > > settings. > > I guess I should educate myself about fibromyalgia, Sounds painful. > > I do wish you luck with your treatment regimen though. Isn’t it ironic > that > > being > > miserable with discomfort can actually work in ones favor? I just started > > wearing some > > really tight compression stockings today to reduce the edema(swelling) and > I > > cannot wait > > to take them off. UUGH, talk about discomfort. I love this newsgroup. I > get > > so much > > information here. Things I never hear from my medical providers. > > John in Honolulu > > some stuff deleted… > > > Hi John, > > > I wish you the best in your treatment. I have fibromyalgia… > > > which is a pain and sleep disorder. I think that some of my pain is > > > actually gone now that I’m 12 weeks along. Then again, I have a > different > > > kind of pain and discomfort now from treatment. I had never thought > of > > > having fibromyaligia as working in my favor in any way. Nice to think > > that > > > since I was already so miserable from the fibromyalgia, that I’ve > managed > > > better because I was already used to feeling miserable! Interesting > > > thought. Mom always said there is a reason for everything. Some time > > back, > > > I addended that by adding that sometime you really have to search for > the > > > reason. Guess I > > > now have a reason for some of this finally. > > > SusieQ > > > —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– > > > http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > > > —–== Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

I don’t know what a ibromyaligia is but could this be why I feel so horrible even after detoxing from a mutiyear meth and xanax habit (it’s been over five months and I feel horrible!) I am learning a lot from you kindly folks that my primary care physician either does not know about or does not wish to expound upon. I had to beg him to do a confirmation test when my bloodwork came back positive for HepC. And yes the confirmation test confirmed I have the bug. If I had listened to my primary care physician I would not have made an appointment to see a hemotologist this coming Friday. Are there new treatment possibilities on the horizon? What are my options? I understand that first I have to determine what my genome type is and that type 3 responds best to presently available treatments. Any advice, suggestions? Or should I just tie a cinderblock around my neck and jump in the Rappahannock River (which probably would just make me wet and mad because the Rappohanock down my way is where George Washington-if he ever really did the trick-was supposed to have thrown a silver dollar across the river). It’s not too wide and very shallow. Oh my, what to do…? And I believed the tour guide at George Washington’s parent’s house when he told us that the original cherry tree which George chopped down is still on the premises. What a geek. I had better stand for something or I’ll fall for everything. Stephen "Sbordone" wrote in message

news:uUPEc.10429$ju5.5959@twister.socal.rr.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi SusyQ, > Thanx for the kind words. Sorry about the late response. > I do not always see the posts when I think I should. Must be because I’m > using > Outlook Express instead of a dedicated news reader. Perhaps it’s my > settings. > I guess I should educate myself about fibromyalgia, Sounds painful. > I do wish you luck with your treatment regimen though. Isn’t it ironic that > being > miserable with discomfort can actually work in ones favor? I just started > wearing some > really tight compression stockings today to reduce the edema(swelling) and I > cannot wait > to take them off. UUGH, talk about discomfort. I love this newsgroup. I get > so much > information here. Things I never hear from my medical providers. > John in Honolulu > some stuff deleted… > > Hi John, > > I wish you the best in your treatment. I have fibromyalgia… > > which is a pain and sleep disorder. I think that some of my pain is > > actually gone now that I’m 12 weeks along. Then again, I have a different > > kind of pain and discomfort now from treatment. I had never thought of > > having fibromyaligia as working in my favor in any way. Nice to think > that > > since I was already so miserable from the fibromyalgia, that I’ve managed > > better because I was already used to feeling miserable! Interesting > > thought. Mom always said there is a reason for everything. Some time > back, > > I addended that by adding that sometime you really have to search for the > > reason. Guess I > > now have a reason for some of this finally. > > SusieQ > > —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– > > http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > > —–== Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Susie, My family comes over to look at me after I’ve done my shot. Like I’m a science experiment they’re interested in watching. Makes me totally crazy. You’re right. This IS a great group. Keith On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 21:36:20 +1000, "Susie Quill" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text - wrote: >My dear family knows mentally what I’m going thru….sort of….they said >they had some sort of idea that they would keep in touch better while I was >going thru this, and that was one of the last messages I got. Oh well. >This is a great group. >Susie

Response:

Has your doc put you diuretics?? It helped me alot. ( and the socks ) — Regards, Shawn . "Sbordone" wrote in message

news:uUPEc.10429$ju5.5959@twister.socal.rr.com… > Hi SusyQ, > Thanx for the kind words. Sorry about the late response. > I do not always see the posts when I think I should. Must be because I’m > using > Outlook Express instead of a dedicated news reader. Perhaps it’s my > settings. > I guess I should educate myself about fibromyalgia, Sounds painful. > I do wish you luck with your treatment regimen though.

Isn’t it ironic that > being > miserable with discomfort can actually work in ones favor? I just started > wearing some > really tight compression stockings today to reduce the

edema(swelling) and I – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> cannot wait > to take them off. UUGH, talk about discomfort. I love this newsgroup. I get > so much > information here. Things I never hear from my medical providers. > John in Honolulu > some stuff deleted… > > Hi John, > > I wish you the best in your treatment. I have fibromyalgia… > > which is a pain and sleep disorder. I think that some of my pain is > > actually gone now that I’m 12 weeks along. Then again, I have a different > > kind of pain and discomfort now from treatment. I

had never thought of > > having fibromyaligia as working in my favor in any way. Nice to think > that > > since I was already so miserable from the fibromyalgia, that I’ve managed > > better because I was already used to feeling miserable! Interesting > > thought. Mom always said there is a reason for

everything. Some time – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> back, > > I addended that by adding that sometime you really have to search for the > > reason. Guess I > > now have a reason for some of this finally. > > SusieQ > > —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– > > http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > > —–== Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

"Sbordone" wrote in message

news:3wcCc.31020$Ha2.20566@twister.socal.rr.com… > Well, today I got clearance from my cardiologist to begin treatment for > hepC.

I’m getting ready to crank ‘er up for the third time. What say we get through this together? Best of luck to *both* of us!

Response:

Smiling Wickedly, Sbordone answered: > Well, it’s genome #1, viral load of approx 700,000/ml. I’ve had it for the > better part of 30 years. > I really could use a break, and hoping that if successful, some of my skin > and leg problems might > go away. That would be so sweet. My thanks to the group for their support, > and the constant flow > of information here. It helps considerably, believe me. > John in Honolulu

This brings up a question for me. How do you know you’ve had it for 30 years? were you told 30 years ago? or do the doctors have a way of figuring out how long you’ve had it? Michael

Response:

Hi SusyQ, Thanx for the kind words. Sorry about the late response. I do not always see the posts when I think I should. Must be because I’m using Outlook Express instead of a dedicated news reader. Perhaps it’s my settings. I guess I should educate myself about fibromyalgia, Sounds painful. I do wish you luck with your treatment regimen though. Isn’t it ironic that being miserable with discomfort can actually work in ones favor? I just started wearing some really tight compression stockings today to reduce the edema(swelling) and I cannot wait to take them off. UUGH, talk about discomfort. I love this newsgroup. I get so much information here. Things I never hear from my medical providers. John in Honolulu some stuff deleted… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi John, > I wish you the best in your treatment. I have fibromyalgia… > which is a pain and sleep disorder. I think that some of my pain is > actually gone now that I’m 12 weeks along. Then again, I have a different > kind of pain and discomfort now from treatment. I had never thought of > having fibromyaligia as working in my favor in any way. Nice to think that > since I was already so miserable from the fibromyalgia, that I’ve managed > better because I was already used to feeling miserable! Interesting > thought. Mom always said there is a reason for everything. Some time back, > I addended that by adding that sometime you really have to search for the > reason. Guess I > now have a reason for some of this finally. > SusieQ > —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– > http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > —–== Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Your right. This is a great news group. Has helped me so much psychologically to know there are people here that understand exactly what I’m going thru…..and they care. My dear family knows mentally what I’m going thru….sort of….they said they had some sort of idea that they would keep in touch better while I was going thru this, and that was one of the last messages I got. Oh well. This is a great group. Susie "Sbordone" wrote in message

—–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Well, today I got clearance from my cardiologist to begin treatment for hepC. There was some question about my atrial fibrillation possibly disqualifying me from treatment.Got to get a psych clearance as well. I’m already on anti-depressants, so that is a plus I guess. I’m really doing my homework in preparation for this by educating myself, and the few friends I have, and my 17 y.o.daughter. I should start tx the end of July. The latest group was to have started in June, but the start group was postponed for some reason. The delay I think works in my favor. More time to prepare. Once started, I do not want to fail. Interestingly enough, I have expressed some apprehension about tx because of the sides. What I’m told is that because of my chronic pain from an Avascular Necrotic hip, and my treatment for depression, that these things work in my favor, as I’m already used to discomfort and am being treated for these things already. As opposed to others who have a really hard time with the sides, because many of them have never suffered from some of these things before, and the sides really throw them for a loop, as they are not used to living with discomfort. Well, it’s genome #1, viral load of approx 700,000/ml. I’ve had it for the better part of 30 years. I really could use a break, and hoping that if successful, some of my skin and leg problems might go away. That would be so sweet. My thanks to the group for their support, and the constant flow of information here. It helps considerably, believe me. John in Honolulu

Response:

"Sbordone" wrote in message

news:3wcCc.31020$Ha2.20566@twister.socal.rr.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Well, today I got clearance from my cardiologist to begin treatment for > hepC. > There was some question about my atrial fibrillation possibly disqualifying > me from > treatment.Got to get a psych clearance as well. I’m already on > anti-depressants, so that > is a plus I guess. I’m really doing my homework in preparation for this by > educating > myself, and the few friends I have, and my 17 y.o.daughter. I should start > tx the end > of July. The latest group was to have started in June, but the start group > was postponed for some reason. > The delay I think works in my favor. More time to prepare. Once started, I > do not want to > fail. Interestingly enough, I have expressed some apprehension about tx > because of the sides. > What I’m told is that because of my chronic pain from an Avascular Necrotic > hip, and my > treatment for depression, that these things work in my favor, as I’m already > used to discomfort > and am being treated for these things already. As opposed to others who have > a really hard time with the > sides, because many of them have never suffered from some of these things > before, and the > sides really throw them for a loop, as they are not used to living with > discomfort. > Well, it’s genome #1, viral load of approx 700,000/ml. I’ve had it for the > better part of 30 years. > I really could use a break, and hoping that if successful, some of my skin > and leg problems might > go away. That would be so sweet. My thanks to the group for their support, > and the constant flow > of information here. It helps considerably, believe me. > John in Honolulu

Hi John, I wish you the best in your treatment. I have fibromyalgia… which is a pain and sleep disorder. I think that some of my pain is actually gone now that I’m 12 weeks along. Then again, I have a different kind of pain and discomfort now from treatment. I had never thought of having fibromyaligia as working in my favor in any way. Nice to think that since I was already so miserable from the fibromyalgia, that I’ve managed better because I was already used to feeling miserable! Interesting thought. Mom always said there is a reason for everything. Some time back, I addended that by adding that sometime you really have to search for the reason. Guess I now have a reason for some of this finally. SusieQ —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Knock em dead, Johnny!! Elmo http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

Response:

Hi John, good luck on the tx. I had joint pains for years before tx, soon after starting tx they all went away. The only good "side" of doing Peg/Riba. — Russ Remove "NOSPAM" for replies. "Sbordone" wrote in message

Response:

Clarification concerning "depression"

admin — Thu, 26 Feb 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Paul, Personally I am against taking anti-d’s but if you find yourself in treatment and going down a slope you had not intended to follow, the newer anti-d’s are not addicting. They may have other problems associated with them, but physical addiction is not one of them. The fear of dying in treatment like your friend must weigh heavily on your mind because it is an unknown to you. As you can see by reading this Ng with so many in treatment, that not everyone dies in treatment. Not everyone beats the virus, but not everyone fails either. Take it slow and easy, Lynne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Paul wrote: > I feel that I would like to post to clear something up. > In the past few days I have been on an emotional roller coaster. Some > people on the NG have expressed concerns about the possibility of me > having depression, about whether I can cope with my forthcoming tx, > and whether I am currently OK to start it. > I am very grateful for the feedback I have received and that people > have expressed their concerns – even to the person who I insulted > after he made a comment about lightbulbs and hanging (sorry about the > insult BTW). > As a general response, I would like to clarify a few items – some of > which I have previously stated and some that I haven’t. > Less than a year ago, a very good buddy of mine died while on tx. It > devastated me. I held his hand while they switched off his life > support. I went through a week of finding it difficult to remove the > visual image of him in the hospital bed from my mind’s eye. It kept > returning and I had a few dreams too. These dreams felt pleasant for > the most part. Nothing spooky or fearful. Quite liberating really > even though sometimes tearful. There is nothing depressive about > crying through grief. It is a natural process. In fact, I would say > that the person who doesn’t acknowledge such pain is more susceptible > to depression. However, after a few weeks, I had a second big shock > when, out of the blue, I was dx’d with hep-c. I didn’t know much > about it then and I was naturally very fearful. Just before my dx, a > second friend died. He also had hep-c. He was not on tx. He was > drinking alcoholically and the toxins went to his brain. For me to > experience these three events in the space of four weeks and expect no > emotional reaction would be totally unrealistic. It’s fair to say > that I was in bits. Although I had some occasional motivational > problems around my work, I slept OK, ate OK, and did the basics to get > me by. > The two deaths were in June and my dx was early July. It took till > around November/December to start feeling more at peace with what had > been going on. > In October, I realised that I needed to start unloading the baggage > and started having sessions with a psychotherapist. I’m not referring > to the stereotypical "lay on the couch, how long have you believed > that you are a cushion?" type therapy. It’s just me and a counsellor > discussing feelings, life events etc. Sometimes my deep wounds become > exposed. Sometimes the sessions are humorous. > Those that have been in therapy will understand when I say it does > stir up things that have lain dormant a long time. Therapy often > stirs up a hornets nest but, for me, it needs to be that way in order > to heal IMO. Those that have had such therapy will recognise that my > recent feelings are a perfectly normal result of opening up to a > professional counsellor. The ability to experience a wider range of > emotions. To someone who hasn’t done such therapy, it could well > appear that I have flipped my lid, am a candidate for depression, > suicide, boils on the bum, genital warts, and every other scourge > known to mankind. It is normal for therapy combined with major life > events to trigger dreams – even the unsettling ones. This is all part > of the healing. > Both the therapist and myself have discussed the possibility of > suspending the counselling during the tx. I do wish to continue with > it for the moment but we both know that the option exists to > temporarily stop. > The fact that I have had a dream linking tx with death is perfectly Ok > IMO. After all, I am about to start tx and I’ve seen someone die on > tx. Often with dreams, 2+2=5. > Therapy does trigger heightened sensitivity at times. Hearing that > word "non-responder" re a failed hep-b vaccination was a trigger for > temporary negative feelings. I’m fine today. > I am well warned about the possibility of tx causing depression. Due > to past addiction problems, I wish to avoid taking anti-d’s – unless > it’s the only way to remain on tx. I do have excellent back-up here. > I have many friends who understand me. Many of them have longterm > recoveries from addictions, some of those have been thru hep-c/tx – > with almost a 100% success rate too. I have a counsellor who is > prepared to stop/start therapy at short notice. As I live on my own, > I have friends who will be happy for me to share their homes for a > week or two at a time if things get too much around here. Even 95% of > my customers are OK about interruptions in service over the next few > months (I mailshotted them all). I didn’t say anything about hep-c but > did allude to liver problems. I could lose a third of my customers > before it started hurting and I could build the work up again after tx > if needed. > I have worked hard to prepare the ground for a succesful tx concerning > all the things that are within my control. Of course, some things are > out of my hands. It’s impossible to say ahead of time whether I could > be pulled off tx for low blood platelets or any other reason. The > signs are good as all my pre-tx LFTs were OK (platelets at 249 too). > I realise such things can change quite quickly but I feel that I am > giving myself the best chance possible for a succesful outcome. > I wonder, would a depressive get it together to write such a long > post? Would a depressive be sufficiently motivated to be so thorough > in prepating the ground? Would a depressive be able to insert a bit of > humour in his posts? I don’t know but the signs are good IMO. > If you got this far thanks for reading. > If you are a troll and wish to antagonize – May the fleas of a > thousand camels infest your arsehole. > — > Paul > Use the reply by email facility in your > newsreader to send email

Response:

HoofPrints wrote: > Paul, Personally I am against taking anti-d’s but if you find yourself > in treatment and going down a slope you had not intended to follow, the > newer anti-d’s are not addicting. They may have other problems > associated with them, but physical addiction is not one of them. > The fear of dying in treatment like your friend must weigh heavily on > your mind because it is an unknown to you. As you can see by reading > this Ng with so many in treatment, that not everyone dies in treatment. > Not everyone beats the virus, but not everyone fails either. > Take it slow and easy, > Lynne

PS: And if one of your fears is that you will become re-addicted to the needle, I am sure some of the ex-needle freaks will assure you, that that is not going to happen either. Lynne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Paul wrote: > > I feel that I would like to post to clear something up. > > In the past few days I have been on an emotional roller coaster. Some > > people on the NG have expressed concerns about the possibility of me > > having depression, about whether I can cope with my forthcoming tx, > > and whether I am currently OK to start it. > > I am very grateful for the feedback I have received and that people > > have expressed their concerns – even to the person who I insulted > > after he made a comment about lightbulbs and hanging (sorry about the > > insult BTW). > > As a general response, I would like to clarify a few items – some of > > which I have previously stated and some that I haven’t. > > Less than a year ago, a very good buddy of mine died while on tx. It > > devastated me. I held his hand while they switched off his life > > support. I went through a week of finding it difficult to remove the > > visual image of him in the hospital bed from my mind’s eye. It kept > > returning and I had a few dreams too. These dreams felt pleasant for > > the most part. Nothing spooky or fearful. Quite liberating really > > even though sometimes tearful. There is nothing depressive about > > crying through grief. It is a natural process. In fact, I would say > > that the person who doesn’t acknowledge such pain is more susceptible > > to depression. However, after a few weeks, I had a second big shock > > when, out of the blue, I was dx’d with hep-c. I didn’t know much > > about it then and I was naturally very fearful. Just before my dx, a > > second friend died. He also had hep-c. He was not on tx. He was > > drinking alcoholically and the toxins went to his brain. For me to > > experience these three events in the space of four weeks and expect no > > emotional reaction would be totally unrealistic. It’s fair to say > > that I was in bits. Although I had some occasional motivational > > problems around my work, I slept OK, ate OK, and did the basics to get > > me by. > > The two deaths were in June and my dx was early July. It took till > > around November/December to start feeling more at peace with what had > > been going on. > > In October, I realised that I needed to start unloading the baggage > > and started having sessions with a psychotherapist. I’m not referring > > to the stereotypical "lay on the couch, how long have you believed > > that you are a cushion?" type therapy. It’s just me and a counsellor > > discussing feelings, life events etc. Sometimes my deep wounds become > > exposed. Sometimes the sessions are humorous. > > Those that have been in therapy will understand when I say it does > > stir up things that have lain dormant a long time. Therapy often > > stirs up a hornets nest but, for me, it needs to be that way in order > > to heal IMO. Those that have had such therapy will recognise that my > > recent feelings are a perfectly normal result of opening up to a > > professional counsellor. The ability to experience a wider range of > > emotions. To someone who hasn’t done such therapy, it could well > > appear that I have flipped my lid, am a candidate for depression, > > suicide, boils on the bum, genital warts, and every other scourge > > known to mankind. It is normal for therapy combined with major life > > events to trigger dreams – even the unsettling ones. This is all part > > of the healing. > > Both the therapist and myself have discussed the possibility of > > suspending the counselling during the tx. I do wish to continue with > > it for the moment but we both know that the option exists to > > temporarily stop. > > The fact that I have had a dream linking tx with death is perfectly Ok > > IMO. After all, I am about to start tx and I’ve seen someone die on > > tx. Often with dreams, 2+2=5. > > Therapy does trigger heightened sensitivity at times. Hearing that > > word "non-responder" re a failed hep-b vaccination was a trigger for > > temporary negative feelings. I’m fine today. > > I am well warned about the possibility of tx causing depression. Due > > to past addiction problems, I wish to avoid taking anti-d’s – unless > > it’s the only way to remain on tx. I do have excellent back-up here. > > I have many friends who understand me. Many of them have longterm > > recoveries from addictions, some of those have been thru hep-c/tx – > > with almost a 100% success rate too. I have a counsellor who is > > prepared to stop/start therapy at short notice. As I live on my own, > > I have friends who will be happy for me to share their homes for a > > week or two at a time if things get too much around here. Even 95% of > > my customers are OK about interruptions in service over the next few > > months (I mailshotted them all). I didn’t say anything about hep-c but > > did allude to liver problems. I could lose a third of my customers > > before it started hurting and I could build the work up again after tx > > if needed. > > I have worked hard to prepare the ground for a succesful tx concerning > > all the things that are within my control. Of course, some things are > > out of my hands. It’s impossible to say ahead of time whether I could > > be pulled off tx for low blood platelets or any other reason. The > > signs are good as all my pre-tx LFTs were OK (platelets at 249 too). > > I realise such things can change quite quickly but I feel that I am > > giving myself the best chance possible for a succesful outcome. > > I wonder, would a depressive get it together to write such a long > > post? Would a depressive be sufficiently motivated to be so thorough > > in prepating the ground? Would a depressive be able to insert a bit of > > humour in his posts? I don’t know but the signs are good IMO. > > If you got this far thanks for reading. > > If you are a troll and wish to antagonize – May the fleas of a > > thousand camels infest your arsehole. > > — > > Paul > > Use the reply by email facility in your > > newsreader to send email

Response:

I feel that I would like to post to clear something up. In the past few days I have been on an emotional roller coaster. Some people on the NG have expressed concerns about the possibility of me having depression, about whether I can cope with my forthcoming tx, and whether I am currently OK to start it. I am very grateful for the feedback I have received and that people have expressed their concerns – even to the person who I insulted after he made a comment about lightbulbs and hanging (sorry about the insult BTW). As a general response, I would like to clarify a few items – some of which I have previously stated and some that I haven’t. Less than a year ago, a very good buddy of mine died while on tx. It devastated me. I held his hand while they switched off his life support. I went through a week of finding it difficult to remove the visual image of him in the hospital bed from my mind’s eye. It kept returning and I had a few dreams too. These dreams felt pleasant for the most part. Nothing spooky or fearful. Quite liberating really even though sometimes tearful. There is nothing depressive about crying through grief. It is a natural process. In fact, I would say that the person who doesn’t acknowledge such pain is more susceptible to depression. However, after a few weeks, I had a second big shock when, out of the blue, I was dx’d with hep-c. I didn’t know much about it then and I was naturally very fearful. Just before my dx, a second friend died. He also had hep-c. He was not on tx. He was drinking alcoholically and the toxins went to his brain. For me to experience these three events in the space of four weeks and expect no emotional reaction would be totally unrealistic. It’s fair to say that I was in bits. Although I had some occasional motivational problems around my work, I slept OK, ate OK, and did the basics to get me by. The two deaths were in June and my dx was early July. It took till around November/December to start feeling more at peace with what had been going on. In October, I realised that I needed to start unloading the baggage and started having sessions with a psychotherapist. I’m not referring to the stereotypical "lay on the couch, how long have you believed that you are a cushion?" type therapy. It’s just me and a counsellor discussing feelings, life events etc. Sometimes my deep wounds become exposed. Sometimes the sessions are humorous. Those that have been in therapy will understand when I say it does stir up things that have lain dormant a long time. Therapy often stirs up a hornets nest but, for me, it needs to be that way in order to heal IMO. Those that have had such therapy will recognise that my recent feelings are a perfectly normal result of opening up to a professional counsellor. The ability to experience a wider range of emotions. To someone who hasn’t done such therapy, it could well appear that I have flipped my lid, am a candidate for depression, suicide, boils on the bum, genital warts, and every other scourge known to mankind. It is normal for therapy combined with major life events to trigger dreams – even the unsettling ones. This is all part of the healing. Both the therapist and myself have discussed the possibility of suspending the counselling during the tx. I do wish to continue with it for the moment but we both know that the option exists to temporarily stop. The fact that I have had a dream linking tx with death is perfectly Ok IMO. After all, I am about to start tx and I’ve seen someone die on tx. Often with dreams, 2+2=5. Therapy does trigger heightened sensitivity at times. Hearing that word "non-responder" re a failed hep-b vaccination was a trigger for temporary negative feelings. I’m fine today. I am well warned about the possibility of tx causing depression. Due to past addiction problems, I wish to avoid taking anti-d’s – unless it’s the only way to remain on tx. I do have excellent back-up here. I have many friends who understand me. Many of them have longterm recoveries from addictions, some of those have been thru hep-c/tx – with almost a 100% success rate too. I have a counsellor who is prepared to stop/start therapy at short notice. As I live on my own, I have friends who will be happy for me to share their homes for a week or two at a time if things get too much around here. Even 95% of my customers are OK about interruptions in service over the next few months (I mailshotted them all). I didn’t say anything about hep-c but did allude to liver problems. I could lose a third of my customers before it started hurting and I could build the work up again after tx if needed. I have worked hard to prepare the ground for a succesful tx concerning all the things that are within my control. Of course, some things are out of my hands. It’s impossible to say ahead of time whether I could be pulled off tx for low blood platelets or any other reason. The signs are good as all my pre-tx LFTs were OK (platelets at 249 too). I realise such things can change quite quickly but I feel that I am giving myself the best chance possible for a succesful outcome. I wonder, would a depressive get it together to write such a long post? Would a depressive be sufficiently motivated to be so thorough in prepating the ground? Would a depressive be able to insert a bit of humour in his posts? I don’t know but the signs are good IMO. If you got this far thanks for reading. If you are a troll and wish to antagonize – May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your arsehole. — Paul Use the reply by email facility in your newsreader to send email

Response:

"Susie Quill" wrote in message

news:40516a9b_5@corp.newsgroups.com… > Rem Sleep!! That is what I have problems with. Good Lord. I’m e-mailing > my doc. now. I haven’t had a good night sleep in the past 7 or 8 years i > don’t think. I just don’t > get in to sleep deep enough is what I’ve been told…..that > is REM. Thank you so much. SusieQ

You are so welcome. It’s in the anti-depressant family. hc

Response:

Rem Sleep!! That is what I have problems with. Good Lord. I’m e-mailing my doc. now. I haven’t had a good night sleep in the past 7 or 8 years i don’t think. I just don’t get in to sleep deep enough is what I’ve been told…..that is REM. Thank you so much. SusieQ "heppiechik" wrote in message

news:10516ibsk8otne7@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The way my doc explained it to me was that it helps with your REM sleep so > you get more quality sleep. If you aren’t tired then you aren’t depressed. > hc > "Susie Quill" wrote in message > news:40502843_8@corp.newsgroups.com… > > My server has been down since I posted earlier message! > > I’d never heard of Remeron. I have the typical sleep > > disorder with fibro. Wake up more tired then when I > > went to sleep… I’ll ask about Remeron. Thanks > > SusieQs > > "heppiechik" wrote in message > > news:1046se0lklsp3a5@corp.supernews.com… > > > "Susie Quill" wrote in message > > > news:404330b1_6@corp.newsgroups.com… > > > > I’m on anti-d and I’m not even in treatment yet. With > > > > fibromyalgia, serotonin re-uptake drugs are helpful. > > > > I’ve gone off of them and did fine as far as not being > > > > depressed…..since I wasn’t taking them for depression > > > > anyway. Back on now because the pain and sleep > > > > disorder from the HCV induced fibro symptoms > > > > became worse. It is supposed to help decrease those symptoms. I > > haven’t > > > > found them to be a problem > > > > for limited periods of time. I’m terribly mild mannered > > > > right now though, and that is o.k….less stressful to just > > > > not give a crap about some things…and I can stay clear > > > > enough to make decisions about what is really important. > > > > Right now, clearning the virus and getting rid of the fibro > > > > is really important to me…. > > > > I don’t really see a problem with taking anti-depressant during > > treatment. > > > > Everyone has to come to a decision about what is right for them > though. > > > I’m with you Susie Q. (Hmmm, that sounds good right now. I have become a > > > junk food junkie since I’ve been on Tx) > > > Whatever one must do to get through this crap!! > > > I’m on 2 types of a-d’s. Zoloft, which I’ve finally able to cut down > from > > > 200mg to 100mg. I’m also on Remeron at bedtime to help me sleep. > > > hc > > —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– > > http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > > —–== Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

—–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

The way my doc explained it to me was that it helps with your REM sleep so you get more quality sleep. If you aren’t tired then you aren’t depressed. hc "Susie Quill" wrote in message

news:40502843_8@corp.newsgroups.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My server has been down since I posted earlier message! > I’d never heard of Remeron. I have the typical sleep > disorder with fibro. Wake up more tired then when I > went to sleep… I’ll ask about Remeron. Thanks > SusieQs > "heppiechik" wrote in message > news:1046se0lklsp3a5@corp.supernews.com… > > "Susie Quill" wrote in message > > news:404330b1_6@corp.newsgroups.com… > > > I’m on anti-d and I’m not even in treatment yet. With > > > fibromyalgia, serotonin re-uptake drugs are helpful. > > > I’ve gone off of them and did fine as far as not being > > > depressed…..since I wasn’t taking them for depression > > > anyway. Back on now because the pain and sleep > > > disorder from the HCV induced fibro symptoms > > > became worse. It is supposed to help decrease those symptoms. I > haven’t > > > found them to be a problem > > > for limited periods of time. I’m terribly mild mannered > > > right now though, and that is o.k….less stressful to just > > > not give a crap about some things…and I can stay clear > > > enough to make decisions about what is really important. > > > Right now, clearning the virus and getting rid of the fibro > > > is really important to me…. > > > I don’t really see a problem with taking anti-depressant during > treatment. > > > Everyone has to come to a decision about what is right for them though. > > I’m with you Susie Q. (Hmmm, that sounds good right now. I have become a > > junk food junkie since I’ve been on Tx) > > Whatever one must do to get through this crap!! > > I’m on 2 types of a-d’s. Zoloft, which I’ve finally able to cut down from > > 200mg to 100mg. I’m also on Remeron at bedtime to help me sleep. > > hc > —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– > http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > —–== Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Hahahahahahaha!!!!!!! — Regards, Shawn . "heppiechik" wrote in message

news:1049djq509mu215@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I vaguely remember. Thanks for reminding me! > hc (damn brain fog) > "tim" wrote in message > news:A3U0c.160374$jk2.603961@attbi_s53… > > "heppiechik" wrote in message > > news:1047vuscctkq7d7@corp.supernews.com… > > > "Shawn" wrote in message > > > news:M3L0c.16531$C65.6977@nwrddc01.gnilink.net… > > > > After being on Zoloft for 2 years, my new shrink put me on > > > > Remeron for sleeping and Chlorazapan for anti-D. A > > > > noticeable difference! I’m starting to think about sex > > > > again!! > > > What???? > > > hc > > You know, sex. S-E-X. You’ve got kids, right? Didn’t they ever tell you > > where they came from? > > tim

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -heppiechik wrote: > wrote in message > news:26677-40447224-511@storefull-3251.bay.webtv.net… >>Re: Clarification concerning "depression" >>Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Tue, Mar 2, 2004, 4:28am (EST+5) >>From: rota…@oohay.moc (tim) >>"heppiechik" wrote in message >>news:1047vuscctkq7d7@corp.supernews.com… >>"Shawn" wrote in message >>news:M3L0c.16531$C65.6977@nwrddc01.gnilink.net… >>After being on Zoloft for 2 years, my new shrink put me on Remeron for >>sleeping and Chlorazapan for anti-D. A noticeable difference! I’m >>starting to think about sex again!! >>What???? >>hc >>You know, sex. S-E-X. You’ve got kids, right? Didn’t they ever tell you >>where they came from? >>tim >>///////////////////////// >>And in case you didn’t know, SEX spelled backwards is XES. >>Elmo > What’s XES???? > hc

Isn’t XES too much SEX? The only thing I can remember having too much of is bad luck. "If it weren’t for bad luck I’d have no luck at all." — Dwight Dragon Slayers’ Club: http://geocities.com/dwightmspage/

Response:

Re: Clarification concerning "depression" Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Tue, Mar 2, 2004, 10:29am (EST-1) From: canyougetme…@eatspam.spam (heppiechik) wrote in message

news:26677-40447224-511@storefull-3251.bay.webtv.net… Re: Clarification concerning "depression" Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Tue, Mar 2, 2004, 4:28am (EST+5) From: rota…@oohay.moc (tim) "heppiechik" wrote in message

news:1047vuscctkq7d7@corp.supernews.com… "Shawn" wrote in message news:M3L0c.16531$C65.6977@nwrddc01.gnilink.net… After being on Zoloft for 2 years, my new shrink put me on Remeron for sleeping and Chlorazapan for anti-D. A noticeable difference! I’m starting to think about sex again!! What???? hc You know, sex. S-E-X. You’ve got kids, right? Didn’t they ever tell you where they came from? tim ///////////////////////// And in case you didn’t know, SEX spelled backwards is XES. Elmo What’s XES???? hc /////////////////////// Doggie style? Hell, I don’t know?! Elmo http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

Response:

My server has been down since I posted earlier message! I’d never heard of Remeron. I have the typical sleep disorder with fibro. Wake up more tired then when I went to sleep… I’ll ask about Remeron. Thanks SusieQs "heppiechik" wrote in message

news:1046se0lklsp3a5@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Susie Quill" wrote in message > news:404330b1_6@corp.newsgroups.com… > > I’m on anti-d and I’m not even in treatment yet. With > > fibromyalgia, serotonin re-uptake drugs are helpful. > > I’ve gone off of them and did fine as far as not being > > depressed…..since I wasn’t taking them for depression > > anyway. Back on now because the pain and sleep > > disorder from the HCV induced fibro symptoms > > became worse. It is supposed to help decrease those symptoms. I haven’t > > found them to be a problem > > for limited periods of time. I’m terribly mild mannered > > right now though, and that is o.k….less stressful to just > > not give a crap about some things…and I can stay clear > > enough to make decisions about what is really important. > > Right now, clearning the virus and getting rid of the fibro > > is really important to me…. > > I don’t really see a problem with taking anti-depressant during treatment. > > Everyone has to come to a decision about what is right for them though. > I’m with you Susie Q. (Hmmm, that sounds good right now. I have become a > junk food junkie since I’ve been on Tx) > Whatever one must do to get through this crap!! > I’m on 2 types of a-d’s. Zoloft, which I’ve finally able to cut down from > 200mg to 100mg. I’m also on Remeron at bedtime to help me sleep. > hc

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Response:

HoofPrints wrote: > Is that the correct spelling for what you are taking? > If it is spelt like this instead, Chlorazepam, it is a benzodiazepine > and physically addicting. > Hoof

Not only that but it is ___not____ an anti-depressant, it is an anti-anxiety drug. Panic disorders etc. Hoof So I am still correct in my post to the other half of Post toasty Inc. ;-X – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Shawn wrote: > > After being on Zoloft for 2 years, my new shrink put me on > > Remeron for sleeping and Chlorazapan for anti-D. A > > noticeable difference! I’m starting to think about sex > > again!! > > — > > Regards, > > Shawn > > . > > "heppiechik" wrote in message > > news:1046se0lklsp3a5@corp.supernews.com… > > > "Susie Quill" wrote in message > > > news:404330b1_6@corp.newsgroups.com… > > > > I’m on anti-d and I’m not even in treatment yet. With > > > > fibromyalgia, serotonin re-uptake drugs are helpful. > > > > I’ve gone off of them and did fine as far as not being > > > > depressed…..since I wasn’t taking them for depression > > > > anyway. Back on now because the pain and sleep > > > > disorder from the HCV induced fibro symptoms > > > > became worse. It is supposed to help decrease those > > symptoms. I haven’t > > > > found them to be a problem > > > > for limited periods of time. I’m terribly mild mannered > > > > right now though, and that is o.k….less stressful to > > just > > > > not give a crap about some things…and I can stay clear > > > > enough to make decisions about what is really important. > > > > Right now, clearning the virus and getting rid of the > > fibro > > > > is really important to me…. > > > > I don’t really see a problem with taking anti-depressant > > during treatment. > > > > Everyone has to come to a decision about what is right > > for them though. > > > I’m with you Susie Q. (Hmmm, that sounds good right now. I > > have become a > > > junk food junkie since I’ve been on Tx) > > > Whatever one must do to get through this crap!! > > > I’m on 2 types of a-d’s. Zoloft, which I’ve finally able > > to cut down from > > > 200mg to 100mg. I’m also on Remeron at bedtime to help me > > sleep. > > > hc

Response:

"Shawn" wrote in message

news:M3L0c.16531$C65.6977@nwrddc01.gnilink.net… > After being on Zoloft for 2 years, my new shrink put me on > Remeron for sleeping and Chlorazapan for anti-D. A > noticeable difference! I’m starting to think about sex > again!!

What???? hc

Response:

"heppiechik" wrote in message

news:1047vuscctkq7d7@corp.supernews.com… > "Shawn" wrote in message > news:M3L0c.16531$C65.6977@nwrddc01.gnilink.net… > > After being on Zoloft for 2 years, my new shrink put me on > > Remeron for sleeping and Chlorazapan for anti-D. A > > noticeable difference! I’m starting to think about sex > > again!! > What???? > hc

You know, sex. S-E-X. You’ve got kids, right? Didn’t they ever tell you where they came from? tim

Response:

Re: Clarification concerning "depression" Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Tue, Mar 2, 2004, 4:28am (EST+5) From: rota…@oohay.moc (tim) "heppiechik" wrote in message

news:1047vuscctkq7d7@corp.supernews.com… "Shawn" wrote in message

news:M3L0c.16531$C65.6977@nwrddc01.gnilink.net… After being on Zoloft for 2 years, my new shrink put me on Remeron for sleeping and Chlorazapan for anti-D. A noticeable difference! I’m starting to think about sex again!! What???? hc You know, sex. S-E-X. You’ve got kids, right? Didn’t they ever tell you where they came from? tim ///////////////////////// And in case you didn’t know, SEX spelled backwards is XES. Elmo http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

Response:

I vaguely remember. Thanks for reminding me! hc (damn brain fog) "tim" wrote in message

news:A3U0c.160374$jk2.603961@attbi_s53… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "heppiechik" wrote in message > news:1047vuscctkq7d7@corp.supernews.com… > > "Shawn" wrote in message > > news:M3L0c.16531$C65.6977@nwrddc01.gnilink.net… > > > After being on Zoloft for 2 years, my new shrink put me on > > > Remeron for sleeping and Chlorazapan for anti-D. A > > > noticeable difference! I’m starting to think about sex > > > again!! > > What???? > > hc > You know, sex. S-E-X. You’ve got kids, right? Didn’t they ever tell you > where they came from? > tim

Response:

wrote in message

news:26677-40447224-511@storefull-3251.bay.webtv.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Re: Clarification concerning "depression" > Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Tue, Mar 2, 2004, 4:28am (EST+5) > From: rota…@oohay.moc (tim) > "heppiechik" wrote in message > news:1047vuscctkq7d7@corp.supernews.com… > "Shawn" wrote in message > news:M3L0c.16531$C65.6977@nwrddc01.gnilink.net… > After being on Zoloft for 2 years, my new shrink put me on Remeron for > sleeping and Chlorazapan for anti-D. A noticeable difference! I’m > starting to think about sex again!! > What???? > hc > You know, sex. S-E-X. You’ve got kids, right? Didn’t they ever tell you > where they came from? > tim > ///////////////////////// > And in case you didn’t know, SEX spelled backwards is XES. > Elmo

What’s XES???? hc

Response:

On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:29:15 -0600, "heppiechik" , in message ID <1049dl924trc…@corp.supernews.com>, in the newsgroup alt.support.hepatitis-c wrote: >What’s XES????

Exes ???? — Paul Use the reply by email facility in your newsreader to send email

Response:

On 29 Feb 2004 10:22:45 -0800, bluehou…@hotmail.com (Dave bluehound), in message ID , in the newsgroup alt.support.hepatitis-c wrote: >Paul, I too didn’t want to take AD’s. I had taken them before and >didn’t like them. (related to depression at work, I was an Oncology >RN). I stopped taking them and just delt with the sorrow when a pt >died. I felt this was natural greif and should be allowed to come >out. > My BCLD insisted I take ADs before he would start tx. I relented >and my ‘regular’ MD told me about ‘new’ drugs that weren’t as mentally >debilitating. I tried them,(Lexapro), and they worked. I realized I >needed them when I got Riba Rage.(big time). I went off on a violent >rage, posted some prepostrous(insane) story about sticking spikes in >peoples ears.

Yes, I remember that posting (and the subsequent retraction/apology). The story turned my guts over when I read it so I’m glad it wasn’t true . >P.S. Paul, thanks for the suggestion of sending my extra meds to a >pt’s MD and let him give them out was an excellent idea. Thanks. D.

That’s OK. It wasn’t actually original. I think I saw someone suggest that to someone else on here some time ago and I remembered it when I read your post. Thanks for what you said about anti-d’s. I feel less uncomfortable about them now but I would still prefer to wait and see. — Paul Use the reply by email facility in your newsreader to send email

Response:

I’m on anti-d and I’m not even in treatment yet. With fibromyalgia, serotonin re-uptake drugs are helpful. I’ve gone off of them and did fine as far as not being depressed…..since I wasn’t taking them for depression anyway. Back on now because the pain and sleep disorder from the HCV induced fibro symptoms became worse. It is supposed to help decrease those symptoms. I haven’t found them to be a problem for limited periods of time. I’m terribly mild mannered right now though, and that is o.k….less stressful to just not give a crap about some things…and I can stay clear enough to make decisions about what is really important. Right now, clearning the virus and getting rid of the fibro is really important to me…. I don’t really see a problem with taking anti-depressant during treatment. Everyone has to come to a decision about what is right for them though. SusieQ "liquidstress" <.@.> wrote in message

news:15792280.f04ba0@news.bumsport.edu… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> From : Paul > Message-ID : > >It wasn’t actually original. I think I saw someone > >suggest that to someone else on here some time ago and I remembered it > The *funnel* of Feral Cave Dwellers *medical advise* > Woe unto them that take *any* of their medical advise seriously.. > oooO0 > ( ) > ( > _) > 0Oooo > ( ) > ( > (_/

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Response:

"Susie Quill" wrote in message

news:404330b1_6@corp.newsgroups.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m on anti-d and I’m not even in treatment yet. With > fibromyalgia, serotonin re-uptake drugs are helpful. > I’ve gone off of them and did fine as far as not being > depressed…..since I wasn’t taking them for depression > anyway. Back on now because the pain and sleep > disorder from the HCV induced fibro symptoms > became worse. It is supposed to help decrease those symptoms. I haven’t > found them to be a problem > for limited periods of time. I’m terribly mild mannered > right now though, and that is o.k….less stressful to just > not give a crap about some things…and I can stay clear > enough to make decisions about what is really important. > Right now, clearning the virus and getting rid of the fibro > is really important to me…. > I don’t really see a problem with taking anti-depressant during treatment. > Everyone has to come to a decision about what is right for them though.

I’m with you Susie Q. (Hmmm, that sounds good right now. I have become a junk food junkie since I’ve been on Tx) Whatever one must do to get through this crap!! I’m on 2 types of a-d’s. Zoloft, which I’ve finally able to cut down from 200mg to 100mg. I’m also on Remeron at bedtime to help me sleep. hc

Response:

After being on Zoloft for 2 years, my new shrink put me on Remeron for sleeping and Chlorazapan for anti-D. A noticeable difference! I’m starting to think about sex again!! — Regards, Shawn . "heppiechik" wrote in message

news:1046se0lklsp3a5@corp.supernews.com… > "Susie Quill" wrote in message > news:404330b1_6@corp.newsgroups.com… > > I’m on anti-d and I’m not even in treatment yet. With > > fibromyalgia, serotonin re-uptake drugs are helpful. > > I’ve gone off of them and did fine as far as not being > > depressed…..since I wasn’t taking them for depression > > anyway. Back on now because the pain and sleep > > disorder from the HCV induced fibro symptoms > > became worse. It is supposed to help decrease those

symptoms. I haven’t – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > found them to be a problem > > for limited periods of time. I’m terribly mild mannered > > right now though, and that is o.k….less stressful to just > > not give a crap about some things…and I can stay clear > > enough to make decisions about what is really important. > > Right now, clearning the virus and getting rid of the fibro > > is really important to me…. > > I don’t really see a problem with taking anti-depressant during treatment. > > Everyone has to come to a decision about what is right for them though. > I’m with you Susie Q. (Hmmm, that sounds good right now. I have become a > junk food junkie since I’ve been on Tx) > Whatever one must do to get through this crap!! > I’m on 2 types of a-d’s. Zoloft, which I’ve finally able to cut down from > 200mg to 100mg. I’m also on Remeron at bedtime to help me sleep. > hc

Response:

Is that the correct spelling for what you are taking? If it is spelt like this instead, Chlorazepam, it is a benzodiazepine and physically addicting. Hoof – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Shawn wrote: > After being on Zoloft for 2 years, my new shrink put me on > Remeron for sleeping and Chlorazapan for anti-D. A > noticeable difference! I’m starting to think about sex > again!! > — > Regards, > Shawn > . > "heppiechik" wrote in message > news:1046se0lklsp3a5@corp.supernews.com… > > "Susie Quill" wrote in message > > news:404330b1_6@corp.newsgroups.com… > > > I’m on anti-d and I’m not even in treatment yet. With > > > fibromyalgia, serotonin re-uptake drugs are helpful. > > > I’ve gone off of them and did fine as far as not being > > > depressed…..since I wasn’t taking them for depression > > > anyway. Back on now because the pain and sleep > > > disorder from the HCV induced fibro symptoms > > > became worse. It is supposed to help decrease those > symptoms. I haven’t > > > found them to be a problem > > > for limited periods of time. I’m terribly mild mannered > > > right now though, and that is o.k….less stressful to > just > > > not give a crap about some things…and I can stay clear > > > enough to make decisions about what is really important. > > > Right now, clearning the virus and getting rid of the > fibro > > > is really important to me…. > > > I don’t really see a problem with taking anti-depressant > during treatment. > > > Everyone has to come to a decision about what is right > for them though. > > I’m with you Susie Q. (Hmmm, that sounds good right now. I > have become a > > junk food junkie since I’ve been on Tx) > > Whatever one must do to get through this crap!! > > I’m on 2 types of a-d’s. Zoloft, which I’ve finally able > to cut down from > > 200mg to 100mg. I’m also on Remeron at bedtime to help me > sleep. > > hc

Response:

Paul, I too didn’t want to take AD’s. I had taken them before and didn’t like them. (related to depression at work, I was an Oncology RN). I stopped taking them and just delt with the sorrow when a pt died. I felt this was natural greif and should be allowed to come out. My BCLD insisted I take ADs before he would start tx. I relented and my ‘regular’ MD told me about ‘new’ drugs that weren’t as mentally debilitating. I tried them,(Lexapro), and they worked. I realized I needed them when I got Riba Rage.(big time). I went off on a violent rage, posted some prepostrous(insane) story about sticking spikes in peoples ears. I immed. stopped work, had my MD slightly up my dosage and all was fine. I think if I didn’t have the AD on board at that time I would have been in big trouble. I’m one that feels, from personal experience, that the ADs are a ’safe’ bet. Don’t intrude on your life too much, I would have been able to work through them,(I stopped work related to brain fog from the tx), and they didn’t make me a zombie. I’m one that is in favor of them during tx. JMHO. Dave. P.S. Paul, thanks for the suggestion of sending my extra meds to a pt’s MD and let him give them out was an excellent idea. Thanks. D. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Paul wrote in message … > I feel that I would like to post to clear something up. > In the past few days I have been on an emotional roller coaster. Some > people on the NG have expressed concerns about the possibility of me > having depression, about whether I can cope with my forthcoming tx, > and whether I am currently OK to start it. > I am very grateful for the feedback I have received and that people > have expressed their concerns – even to the person who I insulted > after he made a comment about lightbulbs and hanging (sorry about the > insult BTW). > As a general response, I would like to clarify a few items – some of > which I have previously stated and some that I haven’t. > Less than a year ago, a very good buddy of mine died while on tx. It > devastated me. I held his hand while they switched off his life > support. I went through a week of finding it difficult to remove the > visual image of him in the hospital bed from my mind’s eye. It kept > returning and I had a few dreams too. These dreams felt pleasant for > the most part. Nothing spooky or fearful. Quite liberating really > even though sometimes tearful. There is nothing depressive about > crying through grief. It is a natural process. In fact, I would say > that the person who doesn’t acknowledge such pain is more susceptible > to depression. However, after a few weeks, I had a second big shock > when, out of the blue, I was dx’d with hep-c. I didn’t know much > about it then and I was naturally very fearful. Just before my dx, a > second friend died. He also had hep-c. He was not on tx. He was > drinking alcoholically and the toxins went to his brain. For me to > experience these three events in the space of four weeks and expect no > emotional reaction would be totally unrealistic. It’s fair to say > that I was in bits. Although I had some occasional motivational > problems around my work, I slept OK, ate OK, and did the basics to get > me by. > The two deaths were in June and my dx was early July. It took till > around November/December to start feeling more at peace with what had > been going on. > In October, I realised that I needed to start unloading the baggage > and started having sessions with a psychotherapist. I’m not referring > to the stereotypical "lay on the couch, how long have you believed > that you are a cushion?" type therapy. It’s just me and a counsellor > discussing feelings, life events etc. Sometimes my deep wounds become > exposed. Sometimes the sessions are humorous. > Those that have been in therapy will understand when I say it does > stir up things that have lain dormant a long time. Therapy often > stirs up a hornets nest but, for me, it needs to be that way in order > to heal IMO. Those that have had such therapy will recognise that my > recent feelings are a perfectly normal result of opening up to a > professional counsellor. The ability to experience a wider range of > emotions. To someone who hasn’t done such therapy, it could well > appear that I have flipped my lid, am a candidate for depression, > suicide, boils on the bum, genital warts, and every other scourge > known to mankind. It is normal for therapy combined with major life > events to trigger dreams – even the unsettling ones. This is all part > of the healing. > Both the therapist and myself have discussed the possibility of > suspending the counselling during the tx. I do wish to continue with > it for the moment but we both know that the option exists to > temporarily stop. > The fact that I have had a dream linking tx with death is perfectly Ok > IMO. After all, I am about to start tx and I’ve seen someone die on > tx. Often with dreams, 2+2=5. > Therapy does trigger heightened sensitivity at times. Hearing that > word "non-responder" re a failed hep-b vaccination was a trigger for > temporary negative feelings. I’m fine today. > I am well warned about the possibility of tx causing depression. Due > to past addiction problems, I wish to avoid taking anti-d’s – unless > it’s the only way to remain on tx. I do have excellent back-up here. > I have many friends who understand me. Many of them have longterm > recoveries from addictions, some of those have been thru hep-c/tx – > with almost a 100% success rate too. I have a counsellor who is > prepared to stop/start therapy at short notice. As I live on my own, > I have friends who will be happy for me to share their homes for a > week or two at a time if things get too much around here. Even 95% of > my customers are OK about interruptions in service over the next few > months (I mailshotted them all). I didn’t say anything about hep-c but > did allude to liver problems. I could lose a third of my customers > before it started hurting and I could build the work up again after tx > if needed. > I have worked hard to prepare the ground for a succesful tx concerning > all the things that are within my control. Of course, some things are > out of my hands. It’s impossible to say ahead of time whether I could > be pulled off tx for low blood platelets or any other reason. The > signs are good as all my pre-tx LFTs were OK (platelets at 249 too). > I realise such things can change quite quickly but I feel that I am > giving myself the best chance possible for a succesful outcome. > I wonder, would a depressive get it together to write such a long > post? Would a depressive be sufficiently motivated to be so thorough > in prepating the ground? Would a depressive be able to insert a bit of > humour in his posts? I don’t know but the signs are good IMO. > If you got this far thanks for reading. > If you are a troll and wish to antagonize – May the fleas of a > thousand camels infest your arsehole.

Response:

>PS: And if one of your fears is that you will become re-addicted to the >needle, I am sure some of the ex-needle freaks will assure you, that >that is not going to happen either. >Lynne

The Hoof is right, you will find no joy from this needle. Hang in there. There are alot of AD that will help, but be very wary of any benzos. Hip

Response:

On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 10:01:05 -0700, h…@network.net, in message ID , in the newsgroup alt.support.hepatitis-c wrote: >>PS: And if one of your fears is that you will become re-addicted to the >>needle, I am sure some of the ex-needle freaks will assure you, that >>that is not going to happen either. >>Lynne >The Hoof is right, you will find no joy from this needle. Hang in >there. There are alot of AD that will help, but be very wary of any >benzos.

I’ve no concerns about regaining needle addiction thanks. Thanx for the warning re benzos. Wouldn’t touch them with a disinfected barge pole. — Paul Use the reply by email facility in your newsreader to send email

Response:

Is sleep apnoea classed as a disability?

admin — Wed, 18 Feb 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 08:31:32 GMT, "fiddaman64" wrote: >Is sleep apnoea classed as a disability? >More specifically, here in the UK? >Fiddy

Of itself no, unless it is resulting in inabilities to perform nominated tasks that could also be due to other causes. If you need to purchase equipment such as CPAP then it does count as a medical need and you are exempt from paying VAT on it. You must, by law, notify the DVLA, and you will want to have your doctor prepared to give them a confirmation of successful treatment, assuming you are getting that. There is a form to do this on their web site, If you are not being successfully treated and have sleep apnoea (as well as certain other sleep related disorders) you must stop driving immediately. It is a criminal offence to do so which carries an invitation to one of Mrs Windsor’s residences. For completeness, also notify your car insurer. Generally they will be OK with it and not apply a hike to the premium as long as the DVLA is OK. When I did this I insisted that they put their acceptance of the situation in writing so that it was completely clear and no wriggling. I don’t trust the insurance companies 1mm. As far as I am concerned, they are licenced protection racketeers. .andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Response:

"Andy Hall" wrote in message

news:a347309nr7n00mht8n23i0ejd71buqdcsa@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 08:31:32 GMT, "fiddaman64" > wrote: > >Is sleep apnoea classed as a disability? > >More specifically, here in the UK? > >Fiddy > Of itself no, unless it is resulting in inabilities to perform > nominated tasks that could also be due to other causes. > If you need to purchase equipment such as CPAP then it does count as a > medical need and you are exempt from paying VAT on it. > You must, by law, notify the DVLA, and you will want to have your > doctor prepared to give them a confirmation of successful treatment, > assuming you are getting that. There is a form to do this on their > web site, > If you are not being successfully treated and have sleep apnoea (as > well as certain other sleep related disorders) you must stop driving > immediately. It is a criminal offence to do so which carries an > invitation to one of Mrs Windsor’s residences. > For completeness, also notify your car insurer. Generally they will > be OK with it and not apply a hike to the premium as long as the DVLA > is OK. When I did this I insisted that they put their acceptance of > the situation in writing so that it was completely clear and no > wriggling. I don’t trust the insurance companies 1mm. As far as I > am concerned, they are licenced protection racketeers.

No they don’t raise the premium if it is under control i.e. using CPAP Martin

Response:

"fiddaman64" wrote in message

news:EpFYb.1663$fO2.16535621@news-text.cableinet.net… > Is sleep apnoea classed as a disability? > More specifically, here in the UK?

Don’t know but you must inform the DVLC and your car insurer but make sure your OSA is being treated or they will take your driving licence away. Were you thinking of getting a disabled badge to park in all those empty, wide, disabled parking places at the supermarket!! Martin

Response:

Is sleep apnoea classed as a disability? More specifically, here in the UK? Fiddy

Response:

> Is sleep apnoea classed as a disability? > More specifically, here in the UK?

in most places (including US & Australia – not sure about UK but don’t see why it woudl be different) – disability is determined not so much on WHAT the health problem IS……but on how much it limits your abilities……. does your sleep apnea limit your ability to work ANY kind of job? and also importantly, does it mean you require aid from others to keep up with day to day living? I’m assuming you consider your apnea to be a serious problem for you – just wondering what treatment options you’ve tried and why they haven’t worked. — Beth in Australia (I am not a medical professional and anything stated in my posts is my opinion only unless specified otherwise) =================== FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://talhost.net/sleep Newsgroup Archives http://talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles

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