Question:
Hi SofT – Don’t you think it’s strange that you and I have had such sharp differences in the past, and yet – it seems we are able to speak gently to one another now? I just thought I’d put that in. Life does change. People change. Relationships change. I’m glad ours did. Thanks for your concern, and for the question – it is a good one. I think, when I think about it, that there are a couple of answers. One: after having had a long talk w/a woman who had lots of encouraging and strengthening suggestions for me, I spent the entire next day sleeping – the day of the evening I wrote that self-h*tred post. And also – well, here is an obvious change: I am undergoing switch in meds. It’s pretty major. I am doing a number of things at once. I am getting off W*llbutrin (which is a drug I have enjoyed in that it has had so few side effects, or so I thought. But now I think that it has been creating a long standing sleep disorder – that I didn’t have until recently (as in – it seems that it might be related to the Wellbutrin, which can be known to cause sleep disorders – as can diabetes and obesity, and I have been gaining weight over the months and years). Okay, so I’m stepping down the W*llbutrin on an attempt to get off it. After a month, when I see my MD again, she and I will discuss starting me on Eff*xor – one of the thousand anti-d’s I haven’t tried yet. It’s supposed to have a weight loss effect – but then so is Pr*zac, at least for some people, and it didn’t for me. We’ll see. I’m also changing the way I am handling my chronic pain. I have been taking P*rcoset regularly – as well as V*lium – partly to control leg cramps. (I have bone spurs which impinge on my sciatic nerves, besides which, the nerves where damaged by my second disc herniation, which was left untreated for a year, even though I *knew* I needed surgery – MDs – you can’t tell them anything. Try this, try that. I know nerve pain when I feel it, and I knew I needed the stupid disc taken out. I feel smack down on my tailbone and popped a disc that had been bulging for years.) The V*lium also affects sleep, of course. Well, so does the P*rcoset. So, cutting down on both is part of an effort to deal differently w/the sleep disorder. C*tch-22: I am not an addictive personality or somatic type (thank goodness – my issue is food, not substances) – so I don’t have a psychological problem, or even much of a physical problem w/cutting down on the drugs, and ultimately, it will be good, because using less P*rcoset means that it will be more effective when I do use it. Anyhow – the C*tch-22 is that when I cut down on the narcs, I get two "w*thdrawal" effects: one is an occasional slight sore throat – almost too mild to notice. The other, though, is pretty painful – well, very painful – when it sets in: I get screamingly bad leg cramps, suddenly, in the night. So guess what? I have to keep a little box of V*lium by my bed, because it is the best muscle relaxant available, and it works right away. But – still – I am cutting back on everything, and I know from past experience that eventually, I won’t need the nighttime "fix." Oh – and I’ve starting using lots of Gl*cosamine/Ch*ndroitin/MSM as part of the new pain management routine. I also have not much cartilege in my knees, and have started taking a new anti-inflammatory developed esp. for people who can’t take the ones that rough up the stomach – and I can’t, because of all the other drugs I take that are rough on the stomach. I’m fine until I add the anti-inflam. So – behold: B[e]xtra the wonder drug!!! When I take it, the improvement in my knees is fantastic With the onset of the cold weather, I am in pretty much pain again, so now I’m doing the G-C-MSM thing. Even after a few days I can feel it – like tonight we were doing kn*fe self-defense in karate, and a lot of it involves being thrown on the floor by the one defending. I am working w/a great street fighter type (a sw**tie of a guy, but he knows what he’s doing – so it’s super-great working w/him – and he respects me, says I have good moves – it’s going to work out – another post on that in a bit). Anyhow, he helps me up off the floor w/a pull-up (as the guys do w/each other, even – it’s a thing, you know, you even see football players do it) – but before, even w/that, my knees used to hurt. Well, tonight, we had a pretty hard work-out in class, and then we had instructors’ class afterward, where we usually stand in a circle for half an hour and discuss things and sometimes run through things physically – and I often find myself having to sit down because my knees or back hurt – but tonight I only sat down for a very few minutes. So: long answer to short question – why? Well, because I slept, so I felt like I had messed up – like – fallen down coming out of the starting gate (but – but – I’m trying to deal w/a sleep disorder!!). And, then, the change in meds is bound to be messing w/my head, yes? Oh, yeah: and my son’s b’day is Sunday. He will be 12. I used not to trigger for holidays, but now I do, because I feel them to be opportunities for failure. Now that I am writing this – I can tell myself not to be ridiculous – I can make this an opportunity for success. (After all – I have lots under my control.) Thanks for the question, SofT. And thanks for caring – Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello Beauty, *sad* :O( Wish you weren’t feeling so badly about yourself yet understand. Has anything happened recently that triggered this bout of self-hatred? I’m listening if you want to talk about this some more. SofT Again. Completely enveloped in it. Swamped. I can’t take the up and down anymore – I say I can’t but I know I have to, and that’s even worse. Each down makes me h*te myself more. I’ve never been so horrible – I’ve never been in so bad a spot – worse and worse and worse, even when lifted momentarily. I h*te myself worse than my own worst enemy. Okay, I know the standard answer: it’s safer to h*te myself. So? Does that make me feel any better? It just makes me feel more stupid, to even *know* better and to succumb. Just makes me feel morally lazy for allowing myself to be overcome. Ick. Can’t write anymore because where it goes from here is sewer-worthy. Beauty.
Response:
you are not the ichor inside you. you are the innocent human being, forced to suffer needlessly. think of a b*by, newborn into the world – soft and wriggling, mewling adorably…innocent. that innocence was you, and still is you. that sweet, pure innocence was sullied by rotten, stinking filth. the first handful of dirt thrown onto a gleaming c*sket feels profane, wrong. the soul shrieks at the sight, gasps in horror that someone would so deliberately dirty something so pristine. it wasn’t dirt thrown onto your pristine innocence, Beauty. it was worse. that a soul as beautiful as yours was profaned so horribly is a crime without measure, beyond any comprehension. grieve with me, please, that the world suffered such an offense – the loss of the joy that should have emanated from you all of your life to this point, reaching out to others and aiding them to be joyous, too. rejoice with me, please, that you still live, that hope is real, that you *DO* reach out to others and share what you have made of yourself: a woman of strength and courage, dedication and compassion. You may not see this, but I do. You teach. You mother. You comfort those in need. You are a living, breathing testament to the truth that hope *IS* real. for as much as the world needs joy, perhaps it needs hope more. Without it, none of us *could* reach the point of emanating joy radiantly. my goal in life is to increase the level of positives in the world. it’s a little bit fuzzy, this concept. but essentially "positives" can be seen to equal "warm fuzzies". it’s an extrapolation on "leave the world a better place", ya know? (sorry – blue switched in a bit ago.) being able to smile at someone, and have that smile brighten their day lessens the negatives in the world and increases the positives, you know? because there are so many wounded souls in the world, people *need* to know that it’s *not* foolish to have hope. for every wounded soul that heals, that’s one more person able to increase the joy-quotient in the world, you see? so helping one person reach the point of being a joyous presence in the world is worth all of the joy-plusses that *that* person will be able to achieve. see the math? see, i sing, and bring a sense of wonder to the people who hear me – most of the time. ok, sometimes. ;) some ppl just want me to sh*t up. :) and sometimes i’m not on my game, as it were. but i work at expressing joy when i sing, so others can feel it with me. i work at singing from the solid foundation of hope i feel inside of me, so that others might be able to hear me and say "the world just can’t be that bad a place if someone can sing like that" <sheesh, what an ego… 
. and i work with people, to whatever extent i’m able, trying to help them however i can. in real life, i’m a fat, unemployed woman with a *LOT* of mental problems and not a lot of prospects for a career or whatever. but that’s only what some people might see. in truth, I’m right on track with my life-goals. :) … it wasn’t your fault, beauty. you did nothing wrong. everything that happened after that was a reaction to the original badstuff. forgive yourself for being human. that’s not your fault, either. ;) jt (several of us, most notably Socrates and blue)
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Again. Completely enveloped in it. Swamped. I can’t take the up and down anymore – I say I can’t but I know I have to, and that’s even worse. Each down makes me h*te myself more. I’ve never been so horrible – I’ve never been in so bad a spot – worse and worse and worse, even when lifted momentarily. I h*te myself worse than my own worst enemy. Okay, I know the standard answer: it’s safer to h*te myself. So? Does that make me feel any better? It just makes me feel more stupid, to even *know* better and to succumb. Just makes me feel morally lazy for allowing myself to be overcome. Ick. Can’t write anymore because where it goes from here is sewer-worthy. Beauty.
Response:
Hello Beauty, *sad* :O( Wish you weren’t feeling so badly about yourself yet understand. Has anything happened recently that triggered this bout of self-hatred? I’m listening if you want to talk about this some more. SofT
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Again. Completely enveloped in it. Swamped. I can’t take the up and down anymore – I say I can’t but I know I have to, and that’s even worse. Each down makes me h*te myself more. I’ve never been so horrible – I’ve never been in so bad a spot – worse and worse and worse, even when lifted momentarily. I h*te myself worse than my own worst enemy. Okay, I know the standard answer: it’s safer to h*te myself. So? Does that make me feel any better? It just makes me feel more stupid, to even *know* better and to succumb. Just makes me feel morally lazy for allowing myself to be overcome. Ick. Can’t write anymore because where it goes from here is sewer-worthy. Beauty.
Response:
Again. Completely enveloped in it. Swamped. I can’t take the up and down anymore – I say I can’t but I know I have to, and that’s even worse. Each down makes me h*te myself more. I’ve never been so horrible – I’ve never been in so bad a spot – worse and worse and worse, even when lifted momentarily. I h*te myself worse than my own worst enemy. Okay, I know the standard answer: it’s safer to h*te myself. So? Does that make me feel any better? It just makes me feel more stupid, to even *know* better and to succumb. Just makes me feel morally lazy for allowing myself to be overcome. Ick. Can’t write anymore because where it goes from here is sewer-worthy. Beauty.
Response:
Fleahhh! Now there’s a word for you: ichor! Hadn’t run across that one for a while. Hey – you a big reader? Think you are. The fthr instroduced us to a period in US lit that connects us to him, and that contains a lot of forgotten and stupendous prose stylists and chroniclers of the American scene – same era as St*inbeck & H*mingway, pretty much, though we don’t care for the latter at all (don’t think of him as a stylist dislike his point of view and his, um, stories, pretty much). However, are you familiar w/John d[o]s Passos? Absolutely lyrical prose stylist, pretty well known . . . And we borrowed, while we were down in KY, a paperback containing three novels by a contemporary named D[a]wn P[o]well. Incredible writing – such craft in her choice of words, in her astute eye for the social scene – types, social strata, interactions (personal, social, business, etc.) – and of course, all the romantic/sxl stuff interlaced w/all of it. Her most famous is called *Ang*ls on T*ast* (yeah, the stuff you put marmalade on). It’s also the best one of the three in the QPB vol. In each book, there is an echo of the child she was – her mthr d**d when she was a little child and she was shunted from farm to gritty little town in the Midwest until she broke free into the art scene in Greenwich Village and – well – it would be completely untrue to say she never looked back, because all of her books are about how the "innocent" from the "corn belt" assimilates herself/himself into the City. Highly recommended. I am offended to have come to the end of the final novel. Onward – you are not the ichor inside you.
Hmm. Well if not, then what? you are the innocent human being, forced to suffer needlessly.
Ain’t that life? Doesn’t life make us who we are? think of a b*by, newborn into the world – soft and wriggling, mewling adorably…innocent.
Yes, innocent – and mewling. that innocence was you, and still is you. that sweet, pure innocence was sullied by rotten, stinking filth.
Eh. the first handful of dirt thrown onto a gleaming c*sket feels profane, wrong. the soul shrieks at the sight, gasps in horror that someone would so deliberately dirty something so pristine.
I dunno. Have always felt that moment to be – a kind of reverence – a last act of service to a beloved one. it wasn’t dirt thrown onto your pristine innocence, Beauty. it was worse.
Well, dunno. It was life. And – innocence – well, yeah. But pristine? Ain’t nothing exactly pristine about a baby, who is just as human as anyone, w/incredible demands, scathing habits of behavior (yes, innocent, because born of pure need and not malice) – but – just human, not pristine. that a soul as beautiful as yours was profaned so horribly is a crime without measure, beyond any comprehension.
Well, thank you for your measure of my soul as beautiful. I happen to think that all souls (if that is the word one chooses) are equally beautiful, for that is the nature of souls – and the actual nature of the living being gets messed up by life. And I agree – that to harm a child, and esp. in the name of anything that is supposedly good, is the worst of all possible crimes. grieve with me, please, that the world suffered such an offense – the loss of the joy that should have emanated from you all of your life to this point, reaching out to others and aiding them to be joyous, too.
Dunno how to grieve about this. I grieve about being unhappy – and that feels self-focused and has so far led nowhere. rejoice with me, please, that you still live,
Well, I’ll try. I mean, obviously, somehow, there is need for me to be here, if not only for my son (who needs me to be his mother), then also for a few other people who do need to know I am there for them (such as my friend who has no "family" to speak of, except me). that hope is real,
I hate that hope is real – because as long as hope is real, so is disappointment and despair. Sorry – I really am *not* trying to be negative, only honest. that you *DO* reach out to others and share what you have made of yourself:
Well, yes, I do reach out – sometimes in pain and sometimes in compassion and sometimes in exuberance, and sometimes in just plain interest. a woman of strength and courage, dedication and compassion. You may not see this, but I do.
Okay, you’re right. I don’t see the strength and courage part. The dedication: limited and failed. The compassion: flawed. You teach.
Yes. And I love that. You mother.
Yes, and I love that. You comfort those in need.
Yes, and I do love that. You are a living, breathing testament to the truth that hope *IS* real.
Um – well – if you say so. Don’t feel like it to me. for as much as the world needs joy, perhaps it needs hope more. Without it, none of us *could* reach the point of emanating joy radiantly.
Friend of mine has "hope" tatooed on her ankle. Yes, I believe that the best and strongest thing we can do is to emanate light into a world of darkness. And yet – so often, I am sucked into the dark, and I end up feeling as if I am part of the dark, contributing to it by succumbing to it, making it stronger – all the more strong because of the possibility of light (yes, I *know* of my possibility, my potential) that I might in theory shed. my goal in life is to increase the level of positives in the world.
Mine too, exactly. it’s a little bit fuzzy, this concept. but essentially "positives" can be seen to equal "warm fuzzies". it’s an extrapolation on "leave the world a better place", ya know? (sorry – blue switched in a bit ago.) being able to smile at someone, and have that smile brighten their day lessens the negatives in the world and increases the positives, you know?
Oh, definitely, and my words almost exactly – as you’ve read here, I’m sure. So we’re on the same wavelength here, for sure. because there are so many wounded souls in the world, people *need* to know that it’s *not* foolish to have hope.
Well, here we are back at hope again. I dunno about hope. I do know about light and about giving light into the world. I don’t know what that amounts to except the only gesture that is worth anything. for every wounded soul that heals, that’s one more person able to increase the joy-quotient in the world, you see? so helping one person reach the point of being a joyous presence in the world is worth all of the joy-plusses that *that* person will be able to achieve. see the math?
Ooooohhhhh. Okay. I was always horrible at math. Thanks for the remedial lesson. I think I get it. Duh. (Still stumbling over the word "hope" so it’s good you switched to numbers, even though I have to struggle to add and subtract.) see, i sing, and bring a sense of wonder to the people who hear me – most of the time. ok, sometimes. ;) some ppl just want me to sh*t up. :) and sometimes i’m not on my game, as it were. but i work at expressing joy when i sing, so others can feel it with me. i work at singing from the solid foundation of hope i feel inside of me, so that others might be able to hear me and say "the world just can’t be that bad a place if someone can sing like that" <sheesh, what an ego… . and i work with people, to whatever extent i’m able, trying to help them however i can.
Singing is good. It heals me, opens me, too. I mean, doing it. Should do it more. Have thought for years of taking voice lessons, just to see if my voice can do even more than it has been doing – because it took about 30 years to discover I am actually a mezzo-soprano and not a contralto! And boy does that feel incredible – just letting the pipes open and letting the sound soar out. It was the husb. who gave me the clue: don’t sing "pretty," sing "loud." (The beauty follows the power.) in real life, i’m a fat, unemployed woman with a *LOT* of mental problems and not a lot of prospects for a career or whatever. but that’s only what some people might see. in truth, I’m right on track with my life-goals. :) …
I hear you. it wasn’t your fault, beauty. you did nothing wrong. everything that happened after that was a reaction to the original badstuff. forgive yourself for being human. that’s not your fault, either. ;)
Don’t have a clue as to how to forgive myself. I know that’s the answer – I’m still looking for the way to do it. And this time – in case there is any doubt – I *am* looking for advice. Thanks for taking the time and care to write this – Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – jt (several of us, most notably Socrates and blue) Again. Completely enveloped in it. Swamped. I can’t take the up and down anymore – I say I can’t but I know I have to, and that’s even worse. Each down makes me h*te myself more. I’ve never been so horrible – I’ve never been in so bad a spot – worse and worse and worse, even when lifted momentarily. I h*te myself worse than my own worst enemy. Okay, I know the standard answer: it’s safer to h*te myself. So? Does that make me feel any better? It just makes me feel more stupid, to even *know* better and to succumb. Just makes me feel morally lazy for allowing myself to be overcome. Ick. Can’t write anymore because where it goes from here is sewer-worthy. Beauty.
Response:
P.S. – How on earch could I forget one of the most important factors in how I am feeling right now? My whole psyche is struggling around re-arranging a habitual coping mechanism: comfort eating. I am working on getting rid of an excess 60 lbs. or so – yes, my MD knows, and she knows my plan for doing it. I am a diabetic, so it’s even more important for me to keep at it. I can do it. It was the getting started that was hard. But – it’s bound to affect my feelings a lot, at least at first, isn’t it? I’ve lost 8 lbs. so far in about 3 weeks. That’s good progress in my estimation. Speaking of which – I need an (allowed) snack. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello Beauty, *sad* :O( Wish you weren’t feeling so badly about yourself yet understand. Has anything happened recently that triggered this bout of self-hatred? I’m listening if you want to talk about this some more. SofT Again. Completely enveloped in it. Swamped. I can’t take the up and down anymore – I say I can’t but I know I have to, and that’s even worse. Each down makes me h*te myself more. I’ve never been so horrible – I’ve never been in so bad a spot – worse and worse and worse, even when lifted momentarily. I h*te myself worse than my own worst enemy. Okay, I know the standard answer: it’s safer to h*te myself. So? Does that make me feel any better? It just makes me feel more stupid, to even *know* better and to succumb. Just makes me feel morally lazy for allowing myself to be overcome. Ick. Can’t write anymore because where it goes from here is sewer-worthy. Beauty.
Response:
Just something to look into. I can’t remember which mineral it is but if you are deficient in one (or if your balance of minerals is off) you can get leg cramps. The choices are potassium, magnesium, sodium, and calcium. It has something to do with balancing things and I’m pretty sure it isn’t as simple as a calcium deficiency. It is a common problem with women who are preg so you can find the mineral at preg websites (one that comes to mind is babycenter.com) and I know that vitamin/health food stores know about it. Maybe if you can get a balance of these minerals your cramps will lessen. Rainbow Colors (Jill) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi SofT – Don’t you think it’s strange that you and I have had such sharp differences in the past, and yet – it seems we are able to speak gently to one another now? I just thought I’d put that in. Life does change. People change. Relationships change. I’m glad ours did. Thanks for your concern, and for the question – it is a good one. I think, when I think about it, that there are a couple of answers. One: after having had a long talk w/a woman who had lots of encouraging and strengthening suggestions for me, I spent the entire next day sleeping – the day of the evening I wrote that self-h*tred post. And also – well, here is an obvious change: I am undergoing switch in meds. It’s pretty major. I am doing a number of things at once. I am getting off W*llbutrin (which is a drug I have enjoyed in that it has had so few side effects, or so I thought. But now I think that it has been creating a long standing sleep disorder – that I didn’t have until recently (as in – it seems that it might be related to the Wellbutrin, which can be known to cause sleep disorders – as can diabetes and obesity, and I have been gaining weight over the months and years). Okay, so I’m stepping down the W*llbutrin on an attempt to get off it. After a month, when I see my MD again, she and I will discuss starting me on Eff*xor – one of the thousand anti-d’s I haven’t tried yet. It’s supposed to have a weight loss effect – but then so is Pr*zac, at least for some people, and it didn’t for me. We’ll see. I’m also changing the way I am handling my chronic pain. I have been taking P*rcoset regularly – as well as V*lium – partly to control leg cramps. (I have bone spurs which impinge on my sciatic nerves, besides which, the nerves where damaged by my second disc herniation, which was left untreated for a year, even though I *knew* I needed surgery – MDs – you can’t tell them anything. Try this, try that. I know nerve pain when I feel it, and I knew I needed the stupid disc taken out. I feel smack down on my tailbone and popped a disc that had been bulging for years.) The V*lium also affects sleep, of course. Well, so does the P*rcoset. So, cutting down on both is part of an effort to deal differently w/the sleep disorder. C*tch-22: I am not an addictive personality or somatic type (thank goodness – my issue is food, not substances) – so I don’t have a psychological problem, or even much of a physical problem w/cutting down on the drugs, and ultimately, it will be good, because using less P*rcoset means that it will be more effective when I do use it. Anyhow – the C*tch-22 is that when I cut down on the narcs, I get two "w*thdrawal" effects: one is an occasional slight sore throat – almost too mild to notice. The other, though, is pretty painful – well, very painful – when it sets in: I get screamingly bad leg cramps, suddenly, in the night. So guess what? I have to keep a little box of V*lium by my bed, because it is the best muscle relaxant available, and it works right away. But – still – I am cutting back on everything, and I know from past experience that eventually, I won’t need the nighttime "fix." Oh – and I’ve starting using lots of Gl*cosamine/Ch*ndroitin/MSM as part of the new pain management routine. I also have not much cartilege in my knees, and have started taking a new anti-inflammatory developed esp. for people who can’t take the ones that rough up the stomach – and I can’t, because of all the other drugs I take that are rough on the stomach. I’m fine until I add the anti-inflam. So – behold: B[e]xtra the wonder drug!!! When I take it, the improvement in my knees is fantastic With the onset of the cold weather, I am in pretty much pain again, so now I’m doing the G-C-MSM thing. Even after a few days I can feel it – like tonight we were doing kn*fe self-defense in karate, and a lot of it involves being thrown on the floor by the one defending. I am working w/a great street fighter type (a sw**tie of a guy, but he knows what he’s doing – so it’s super-great working w/him – and he respects me, says I have good moves – it’s going to work out – another post on that in a bit). Anyhow, he helps me up off the floor w/a pull-up (as the guys do w/each other, even – it’s a thing, you know, you even see football players do it) – but before, even w/that, my knees used to hurt. Well, tonight, we had a pretty hard work-out in class, and then we had instructors’ class afterward, where we usually stand in a circle for half an hour and discuss things and sometimes run through things physically – and I often find myself having to sit down because my knees or back hurt – but tonight I only sat down for a very few minutes. So: long answer to short question – why? Well, because I slept, so I felt like I had messed up – like – fallen down coming out of the starting gate (but – but – I’m trying to deal w/a sleep disorder!!). And, then, the change in meds is bound to be messing w/my head, yes? Oh, yeah: and my son’s b’day is Sunday. He will be 12. I used not to trigger for holidays, but now I do, because I feel them to be opportunities for failure. Now that I am writing this – I can tell myself not to be ridiculous – I can make this an opportunity for success. (After all – I have lots under my control.) Thanks for the question, SofT. And thanks for caring – Beauty. Hello Beauty, *sad* :O( Wish you weren’t feeling so badly about yourself yet understand. Has anything happened recently that triggered this bout of self-hatred? I’m listening if you want to talk about this some more. SofT Again. Completely enveloped in it. Swamped. I can’t take the up and down anymore – I say I can’t but I know I have to, and that’s even worse. Each down makes me h*te myself more. I’ve never been so horrible – I’ve never been in so bad a spot – worse and worse and worse, even when lifted momentarily. I h*te myself worse than my own worst enemy. Okay, I know the standard answer: it’s safer to h*te myself. So? Does that make me feel any better? It just makes me feel more stupid, to even *know* better and to succumb. Just makes me feel morally lazy for allowing myself to be overcome. Ick. Can’t write anymore because where it goes from here is sewer-worthy. Beauty.
– The colors blend, the edges soften. Swirling and mixing we are becoming white light.
Response:
potassium. drink quinine. — astri – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just something to look into. I can’t remember which mineral it is but if you are deficient in one (or if your balance of minerals is off) you can get leg cramps. The choices are potassium, magnesium, sodium, and calcium. It has something to do with balancing things and I’m pretty sure it isn’t as simple as a calcium deficiency. It is a common problem with women who are preg so you can find the mineral at preg websites (one that comes to mind is babycenter.com) and I know that vitamin/health food stores know about it. Maybe if you can get a balance of these minerals your cramps will lessen. Rainbow Colors (Jill) Hi SofT – Don’t you think it’s strange that you and I have had such sharp differences in the past, and yet – it seems we are able to speak gently to one another now? I just thought I’d put that in. Life does change. People change. Relationships change. I’m glad ours did. Thanks for your concern, and for the question – it is a good one. I think, when I think about it, that there are a couple of answers. One: after having had a long talk w/a woman who had lots of encouraging and strengthening suggestions for me, I spent the entire next day sleeping – the day of the evening I wrote that self-h*tred post. And also – well, here is an obvious change: I am undergoing switch in meds. It’s pretty major. I am doing a number of things at once. I am getting off W*llbutrin (which is a drug I have enjoyed in that it has had so few side effects, or so I thought. But now I think that it has been creating a long standing sleep disorder – that I didn’t have until recently (as in – it seems that it might be related to the Wellbutrin, which can be known to cause sleep disorders – as can diabetes and obesity, and I have been gaining weight over the months and years). Okay, so I’m stepping down the W*llbutrin on an attempt to get off it. After a month, when I see my MD again, she and I will discuss starting me on Eff*xor – one of the thousand anti-d’s I haven’t tried yet. It’s supposed to have a weight loss effect – but then so is Pr*zac, at least for some people, and it didn’t for me. We’ll see. I’m also changing the way I am handling my chronic pain. I have been taking P*rcoset regularly – as well as V*lium – partly to control leg cramps. (I have bone spurs which impinge on my sciatic nerves, besides which, the nerves where damaged by my second disc herniation, which was left untreated for a year, even though I *knew* I needed surgery – MDs – you can’t tell them anything. Try this, try that. I know nerve pain when I feel it, and I knew I needed the stupid disc taken out. I feel smack down on my tailbone and popped a disc that had been bulging for years.) The V*lium also affects sleep, of course. Well, so does the P*rcoset. So, cutting down on both is part of an effort to deal differently w/the sleep disorder. C*tch-22: I am not an addictive personality or somatic type (thank goodness – my issue is food, not substances) – so I don’t have a psychological problem, or even much of a physical problem w/cutting down on the drugs, and ultimately, it will be good, because using less P*rcoset means that it will be more effective when I do use it. Anyhow – the C*tch-22 is that when I cut down on the narcs, I get two "w*thdrawal" effects: one is an occasional slight sore throat – almost too mild to notice. The other, though, is pretty painful – well, very painful – when it sets in: I get screamingly bad leg cramps, suddenly, in the night. So guess what? I have to keep a little box of V*lium by my bed, because it is the best muscle relaxant available, and it works right away. But – still – I am cutting back on everything, and I know from past experience that eventually, I won’t need the nighttime "fix." Oh – and I’ve starting using lots of Gl*cosamine/Ch*ndroitin/MSM as part of the new pain management routine. I also have not much cartilege in my knees, and have started taking a new anti-inflammatory developed esp. for people who can’t take the ones that rough up the stomach – and I can’t, because of all the other drugs I take that are rough on the stomach. I’m fine until I add the anti-inflam. So – behold: B[e]xtra the wonder drug!!! When I take it, the improvement in my knees is fantastic With the onset of the cold weather, I am in pretty much pain again, so now I’m doing the G-C-MSM thing. Even after a few days I can feel it – like tonight we were doing kn*fe self-defense in karate, and a lot of it involves being thrown on the floor by the one defending. I am working w/a great street fighter type (a sw**tie of a guy, but he knows what he’s doing – so it’s super-great working w/him – and he respects me, says I have good moves – it’s going to work out – another post on that in a bit). Anyhow, he helps me up off the floor w/a pull-up (as the guys do w/each other, even – it’s a thing, you know, you even see football players do it) – but before, even w/that, my knees used to hurt. Well, tonight, we had a pretty hard work-out in class, and then we had instructors’ class afterward, where we usually stand in a circle for half an hour and discuss things and sometimes run through things physically – and I often find myself having to sit down because my knees or back hurt – but tonight I only sat down for a very few minutes. So: long answer to short question – why? Well, because I slept, so I felt like I had messed up – like – fallen down coming out of the starting gate (but – but – I’m trying to deal w/a sleep disorder!!). And, then, the change in meds is bound to be messing w/my head, yes? Oh, yeah: and my son’s b’day is Sunday. He will be 12. I used not to trigger for holidays, but now I do, because I feel them to be opportunities for failure. Now that I am writing this – I can tell myself not to be ridiculous – I can make this an opportunity for success. (After all – I have lots under my control.) Thanks for the question, SofT. And thanks for caring – Beauty. Hello Beauty, *sad* :O( Wish you weren’t feeling so badly about yourself yet understand. Has anything happened recently that triggered this bout of self-hatred? I’m listening if you want to talk about this some more. SofT Again. Completely enveloped in it. Swamped. I can’t take the up and down anymore – I say I can’t but I know I have to, and that’s even worse. Each down makes me h*te myself more. I’ve never been so horrible – I’ve never been in so bad a spot – worse and worse and worse, even when lifted momentarily. I h*te myself worse than my own worst enemy. Okay, I know the standard answer: it’s safer to h*te myself. So? Does that make me feel any better? It just makes me feel more stupid, to even *know* better and to succumb. Just makes me feel morally lazy for allowing myself to be overcome. Ick. Can’t write anymore because where it goes from here is sewer-worthy. Beauty.
Response:
Hello Beauty, Yer welcome for the caring. :O) *smiling* And, thank you for your responses … see, I told you I would be listening *g*. And yes, I too appreciate the direction, place and changes in our relationship and it only took us years to get here too! Oh how I love taking lengthy journeys for short paths. <vbg And hey, congrats on the weigh loss you’ve achieved so far! I know how hard it is to deal with food-weight issues … kinda been a focus for me these past two years and I’ve made great strides so I really do hope you continued successes. :O) *clearing throat* As to the med changes. It may be possible that the changes you’re making might bring on some depression, and you might want to check with your Dr as to what you might expect to experience during these changes and report to hir what you are presently experiencing. I’m not clear on the half-life to what you’ve been taking nor the specific side-effects associated with withdrawal that one might tend to see, so might be a good idea to do a check-in. You can also call a pharmacist as they tend to know a whole lot more about stuff like this. As to what Jill suggested regarding a possible dietary deficiency and supplements to address leg spasms … low levels of certain minerals as electrolytes (magnesium, potassium, calcium and sodium) has been linked to leg spasms. And here are some possible remedies you might employ to see if they help … Drink more water and consider regular supplements as calcium (esp calcium), magnesium, potassium and sodium but only if your sodium intake is low or if you sweat a lot. Other things you can do is try stretching your calves regularly during the day and at night. You can often prevent night cramps by exhausting the stretch reflex before you go to bed by stretching your calf muscles with wall pushups and applying a heating pad for 10 minutes before going to bed. Also, keeping blankets loose at the foot of the bed may help prevent unnatural positioning of your feet and toes which may also cause night time cramping. Switching focus … Ever hear the adage that what a person tends to say last may be the most telling? Well, this came up for me as I finished reading both of your posts. I found myself wondering if the last things you said in your posts are the most telling to what has recently happened that may have triggered this recent bout of self-hatred. I don’t know if it is or not, so I’ll paste and snip the parts to which this came up for me and perhaps you might reread them to see if perhaps the bulk of the ‘energy source’ to this bout of self-hatred might lie more here than in the recent medication changes. (1st quote) Oh, yeah: and my son’s b’day is Sunday. He will be 12. I used not to trigger for holidays, but now I do, because I feel them to be opportunities for failure. Now that I am writing this – I can tell myself not to be ridiculous – I can make this an opportunity for success. (After all – I have lots under my control.)
(2nd quote) How on earch could I forget one of the most important factors in how I am feeling right now? My whole psyche is struggling around re-arranging a habitual coping mechanism: comfort eating. [snip] It was the getting started that was hard. But – it’s bound to affect my feelings a lot, at least at first, isn’t it?
Wondering if perhaps exploring the feelings around the "opportunities for failure" and food as it pertains to weight gain, weight loss, depression and self-hatred? Just a thought. SofT
Response:
Guess what? Just filled a week’s worth of morning and night plastic pill boxes w/mineral supplements. Potassium is great, but it just flushes through your system like crazy. Magnesium, on the other hand, up to way high doses, so long as it is chelated, is medically recognized as a treatment for pain and cramps. (A friend w/FM told me about that.) And I put some other stuff – incl. calcium (w/C for absorption) in there, too, for other things, and for good measure. Thanks. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just something to look into. I can’t remember which mineral it is but if you are deficient in one (or if your balance of minerals is off) you can get leg cramps. The choices are potassium, magnesium, sodium, and calcium. It has something to do with balancing things and I’m pretty sure it isn’t as simple as a calcium deficiency. It is a common problem with women who are preg so you can find the mineral at preg websites (one that comes to mind is babycenter.com) and I know that vitamin/health food stores know about it. Maybe if you can get a balance of these minerals your cramps will lessen. Rainbow Colors (Jill) Hi SofT – Don’t you think it’s strange that you and I have had such sharp differences in the past, and yet – it seems we are able to speak gently to one another now? I just thought I’d put that in. Life does change. People change. Relationships change. I’m glad ours did. Thanks for your concern, and for the question – it is a good one. I think, when I think about it, that there are a couple of answers. One: after having had a long talk w/a woman who had lots of encouraging and strengthening suggestions for me, I spent the entire next day sleeping – the day of the evening I wrote that self-h*tred post. And also – well, here is an obvious change: I am undergoing switch in meds. It’s pretty major. I am doing a number of things at once. I am getting off W*llbutrin (which is a drug I have enjoyed in that it has had so few side effects, or so I thought. But now I think that it has been creating a long standing sleep disorder – that I didn’t have until recently (as in – it seems that it might be related to the Wellbutrin, which can be known to cause sleep disorders – as can diabetes and obesity, and I have been gaining weight over the months and years). Okay, so I’m stepping down the W*llbutrin on an attempt to get off it. After a month, when I see my MD again, she and I will discuss starting me on Eff*xor – one of the thousand anti-d’s I haven’t tried yet. It’s supposed to have a weight loss effect – but then so is Pr*zac, at least for some people, and it didn’t for me. We’ll see. I’m also changing the way I am handling my chronic pain. I have been taking P*rcoset regularly – as well as V*lium – partly to control leg cramps. (I have bone spurs which impinge on my sciatic nerves, besides which, the nerves where damaged by my second disc herniation, which was left untreated for a year, even though I *knew* I needed surgery – MDs – you can’t tell them anything. Try this, try that. I know nerve pain when I feel it, and I knew I needed the stupid disc taken out. I feel smack down on my tailbone and popped a disc that had been bulging for years.) The V*lium also affects sleep, of course. Well, so does the P*rcoset. So, cutting down on both is part of an effort to deal differently w/the sleep disorder. C*tch-22: I am not an addictive personality or somatic type (thank goodness – my issue is food, not substances) – so I don’t have a psychological problem, or even much of a physical problem w/cutting down on the drugs, and ultimately, it will be good, because using less P*rcoset means that it will be more effective when I do use it. Anyhow – the C*tch-22 is that when I cut down on the narcs, I get two "w*thdrawal" effects: one is an occasional slight sore throat – almost too mild to notice. The other, though, is pretty painful – well, very painful – when it sets in: I get screamingly bad leg cramps, suddenly, in the night. So guess what? I have to keep a little box of V*lium by my bed, because it is the best muscle relaxant available, and it works right away. But – still – I am cutting back on everything, and I know from past experience that eventually, I won’t need the nighttime "fix." Oh – and I’ve starting using lots of Gl*cosamine/Ch*ndroitin/MSM as part of the new pain management routine. I also have not much cartilege in my knees, and have started taking a new anti-inflammatory developed esp. for people who can’t take the ones that rough up the stomach – and I can’t, because of all the other drugs I take that are rough on the stomach. I’m fine until I add the anti-inflam. So – behold: B[e]xtra the wonder drug!!! When I take it, the improvement in my knees is fantastic With the onset of the cold weather, I am in pretty much pain again, so now I’m doing the G-C-MSM thing. Even after a few days I can feel it – like tonight we were doing kn*fe self-defense in karate, and a lot of it involves being thrown on the floor by the one defending. I am working w/a great street fighter type (a sw**tie of a guy, but he knows what he’s doing – so it’s super-great working w/him – and he respects me, says I have good moves – it’s going to work out – another post on that in a bit). Anyhow, he helps me up off the floor w/a pull-up (as the guys do w/each other, even – it’s a thing, you know, you even see football players do it) – but before, even w/that, my knees used to hurt. Well, tonight, we had a pretty hard work-out in class, and then we had instructors’ class afterward, where we usually stand in a circle for half an hour and discuss things and sometimes run through things physically – and I often find myself having to sit down because my knees or back hurt – but tonight I only sat down for a very few minutes. So: long answer to short question – why? Well, because I slept, so I felt like I had messed up – like – fallen down coming out of the starting gate (but – but – I’m trying to deal w/a sleep disorder!!). And, then, the change in meds is bound to be messing w/my head, yes? Oh, yeah: and my son’s b’day is Sunday. He will be 12. I used not to trigger for holidays, but now I do, because I feel them to be opportunities for failure. Now that I am writing this – I can tell myself not to be ridiculous – I can make this an opportunity for success. (After all – I have lots under my control.) Thanks for the question, SofT. And thanks for caring – Beauty. Hello Beauty, *sad* :O( Wish you weren’t feeling so badly about yourself yet understand. Has anything happened recently that triggered this bout of self-hatred? I’m listening if you want to talk about this some more. SofT Again. Completely enveloped in it. Swamped. I can’t take the up and down anymore – I say I can’t but I know I have to, and that’s even worse. Each down makes me h*te myself more. I’ve never been so horrible – I’ve never been in so bad a spot – worse and worse and worse, even when lifted momentarily. I h*te myself worse than my own worst enemy. Okay, I know the standard answer: it’s safer to h*te myself. So? Does that make me feel any better? It just makes me feel more stupid, to even *know* better and to succumb. Just makes me feel morally lazy for allowing myself to be overcome. Ick. Can’t write anymore because where it goes from here is sewer-worthy. Beauty.
Response:
You’d have to keep drinking it continually. As I said: potassium flushes out of the body pretty quickly. But, yeah, quinine is great – and w/a squeeze of lemon feels quite decadent: a good touch, as I am 9 lbs. into losing 60, and am supposed to be funneling lots of H2O. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – potassium. drink quinine. — astri Just something to look into. I can’t remember which mineral it is but if you are deficient in one (or if your balance of minerals is off) you can get leg cramps. The choices are potassium, magnesium, sodium, and calcium. It has something to do with balancing things and I’m pretty sure it isn’t as simple as a calcium deficiency. It is a common problem with women who are preg so you can find the mineral at preg websites (one that comes to mind is babycenter.com) and I know that vitamin/health food stores know about it. Maybe if you can get a balance of these minerals your cramps will lessen. Rainbow Colors (Jill) Hi SofT – Don’t you think it’s strange that you and I have had such sharp differences in the past, and yet – it seems we are able to speak gently to one another now? I just thought I’d put that in. Life does change. People change. Relationships change. I’m glad ours did. Thanks for your concern, and for the question – it is a good one. I think, when I think about it, that there are a couple of answers. One: after having had a long talk w/a woman who had lots of encouraging and strengthening suggestions for me, I spent the entire next day sleeping – the day of the evening I wrote that self-h*tred post. And also – well, here is an obvious change: I am undergoing switch in meds. It’s pretty major. I am doing a number of things at once. I am getting off W*llbutrin (which is a drug I have enjoyed in that it has had so few side effects, or so I thought. But now I think that it has been creating a long standing sleep disorder – that I didn’t have until recently (as in – it seems that it might be related to the Wellbutrin, which can be known to cause sleep disorders – as can diabetes and obesity, and I have been gaining weight over the months and years). Okay, so I’m stepping down the W*llbutrin on an attempt to get off it. After a month, when I see my MD again, she and I will discuss starting me on Eff*xor – one of the thousand anti-d’s I haven’t tried yet. It’s supposed to have a weight loss effect – but then so is Pr*zac, at least for some people, and it didn’t for me. We’ll see. I’m also changing the way I am handling my chronic pain. I have been taking P*rcoset regularly – as well as V*lium – partly to control leg cramps. (I have bone spurs which impinge on my sciatic nerves, besides which, the nerves where damaged by my second disc herniation, which was left untreated for a year, even though I *knew* I needed surgery – MDs – you can’t tell them anything. Try this, try that. I know nerve pain when I feel it, and I knew I needed the stupid disc taken out. I feel smack down on my tailbone and popped a disc that had been bulging for years.) The V*lium also affects sleep, of course. Well, so does the P*rcoset. So, cutting down on both is part of an effort to deal differently w/the sleep disorder. C*tch-22: I am not an addictive personality or somatic type (thank goodness – my issue is food, not substances) – so I don’t have a psychological problem, or even much of a physical problem w/cutting down on the drugs, and ultimately, it will be good, because using less P*rcoset means that it will be more effective when I do use it. Anyhow – the C*tch-22 is that when I cut down on the narcs, I get two "w*thdrawal" effects: one is an occasional slight sore throat – almost too mild to notice. The other, though, is pretty painful – well, very painful – when it sets in: I get screamingly bad leg cramps, suddenly, in the night. So guess what? I have to keep a little box of V*lium by my bed, because it is the best muscle relaxant available, and it works right away. But – still – I am cutting back on everything, and I know from past experience that eventually, I won’t need the nighttime "fix." Oh – and I’ve starting using lots of Gl*cosamine/Ch*ndroitin/MSM as part of the new pain management routine. I also have not much cartilege in my knees, and have started taking a new anti-inflammatory developed esp. for people who can’t take the ones that rough up the stomach – and I can’t, because of all the other drugs I take that are rough on the stomach. I’m fine until I add the anti-inflam. So – behold: B[e]xtra the wonder drug!!! When I take it, the improvement in my knees is fantastic With the onset of the cold weather, I am in pretty much pain again, so now I’m doing the G-C-MSM thing. Even after a few days I can feel it – like tonight we were doing kn*fe self-defense in karate, and a lot of it involves being thrown on the floor by the one defending. I am working w/a great street fighter type (a sw**tie of a guy, but he knows what he’s doing – so it’s super-great working w/him – and he respects me, says I have good moves – it’s going to work out – another post on that in a bit). Anyhow, he helps me up off the floor w/a pull-up (as the guys do w/each other, even – it’s a thing, you know, you even see football players do it) – but before, even w/that, my knees used to hurt. Well, tonight, we had a pretty hard work-out in class, and then we had instructors’ class afterward, where we usually stand in a circle for half an hour and discuss things and sometimes run through things physically – and I often find myself having to sit down because my knees or back hurt – but tonight I only sat down for a very few minutes. So: long answer to short question – why? Well, because I slept, so I felt like I had messed up – like – fallen down coming out of the starting gate (but – but – I’m trying to deal w/a sleep disorder!!). And, then, the change in meds is bound to be messing w/my head, yes? Oh, yeah: and my son’s b’day is Sunday. He will be 12. I used not to trigger for holidays, but now I do, because I feel them to be opportunities for failure. Now that I am writing this – I can tell myself not to be ridiculous – I can make this an opportunity for success. (After all – I have lots under my control.) Thanks for the question, SofT. And thanks for caring – Beauty. Hello Beauty, *sad* :O( Wish you weren’t feeling so badly about yourself yet understand. Has anything happened recently that triggered this bout of self-hatred? I’m listening if you want to talk about this some more. SofT Again. Completely enveloped in it. Swamped. I can’t take the up and down anymore – I say I can’t but I know I have to, and that’s even worse. Each down makes me h*te myself more. I’ve never been so horrible – I’ve never been in so bad a spot – worse and worse and worse, even when lifted momentarily. I h*te myself worse than my own worst enemy. Okay, I know the standard answer: it’s safer to h*te myself. So? Does that make me feel any better? It just makes me feel more stupid, to even *know* better and to succumb. Just makes me feel morally lazy for allowing myself to be overcome. Ick. Can’t write anymore because where it goes from here is sewer-worthy. Beauty.
Response:
Let me keep this short and simple: Bingo. You’ve hit on all the right spots, and, no I hadn’t heard the adage, but in this case it is probably spot-on – and I’ll look for it in other cases as well. Heh. Only took years. Heh. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello Beauty, Yer welcome for the caring. :O) *smiling* And, thank you for your responses … see, I told you I would be listening *g*. And yes, I too appreciate the direction, place and changes in our relationship and it only took us years to get here too! Oh how I love taking lengthy journeys for short paths. <vbg And hey, congrats on the weigh loss you’ve achieved so far! I know how hard it is to deal with food-weight issues … kinda been a focus for me these past two years and I’ve made great strides so I really do hope you continued successes. :O) *clearing throat* As to the med changes. It may be possible that the changes you’re making might bring on some depression, and you might want to check with your Dr as to what you might expect to experience during these changes and report to hir what you are presently experiencing. I’m not clear on the half-life to what you’ve been taking nor the specific side-effects associated with withdrawal that one might tend to see, so might be a good idea to do a check-in. You can also call a pharmacist as they tend to know a whole lot more about stuff like this. As to what Jill suggested regarding a possible dietary deficiency and supplements to address leg spasms … low levels of certain minerals as electrolytes (magnesium, potassium, calcium and sodium) has been linked to leg spasms. And here are some possible remedies you might employ to see if they help … Drink more water and consider regular supplements as calcium (esp calcium), magnesium, potassium and sodium but only if your sodium intake is low or if you sweat a lot. Other things you can do is try stretching your calves regularly during the day and at night. You can often prevent night cramps by exhausting the stretch reflex before you go to bed by stretching your calf muscles with wall pushups and applying a heating pad for 10 minutes before going to bed. Also, keeping blankets loose at the foot of the bed may help prevent unnatural positioning of your feet and toes which may also cause night time cramping. Switching focus … Ever hear the adage that what a person tends to say last may be the most telling? Well, this came up for me as I finished reading both of your posts. I found myself wondering if the last things you said in your posts are the most telling to what has recently happened that may have triggered this recent bout of self-hatred. I don’t know if it is or not, so I’ll paste and snip the parts to which this came up for me and perhaps you might reread them to see if perhaps the bulk of the ‘energy source’ to this bout of self-hatred might lie more here than in the recent medication changes. (1st quote) Oh, yeah: and my son’s b’day is Sunday. He will be 12. I used not to trigger for holidays, but now I do, because I feel them to be opportunities for failure. Now that I am writing this – I can tell myself not to be ridiculous – I can make this an opportunity for success. (After all – I have lots under my control.) (2nd quote) How on earch could I forget one of the most important factors in how I am feeling right now? My whole psyche is struggling around re-arranging a habitual coping mechanism: comfort eating. [snip] It was the getting started that was hard. But – it’s bound to affect my feelings a lot, at least at first, isn’t it? Wondering if perhaps exploring the feelings around the "opportunities for failure" and food as it pertains to weight gain, weight loss, depression and self-hatred? Just a thought. SofT
Response:
That’s right cause one of the preg suggestions was a banana at bedtime 
Quinine is also good cause then you won’t get malaria *grin* Rainbow Colors (Jill) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – potassium. drink quinine. — astri Just something to look into. I can’t remember which mineral it is but if you are deficient in one (or if your balance of minerals is off) you can get leg cramps. The choices are potassium, magnesium, sodium, and calcium. It has something to do with balancing things and I’m pretty sure it isn’t as simple as a calcium deficiency. It is a common problem with women who are preg so you can find the mineral at preg websites (one that comes to mind is babycenter.com) and I know that vitamin/health food stores know about it. Maybe if you can get a balance of these minerals your cramps will lessen. Rainbow Colors (Jill) Hi SofT – Don’t you think it’s strange that you and I have had such sharp differences in the past, and yet – it seems we are able to speak gently to one another now? I just thought I’d put that in. Life does change. People change. Relationships change. I’m glad ours did. Thanks for your concern, and for the question – it is a good one. I think, when I think about it, that there are a couple of answers. One: after having had a long talk w/a woman who had lots of encouraging and strengthening suggestions for me, I spent the entire next day sleeping – the day of the evening I wrote that self-h*tred post. And also – well, here is an obvious change: I am undergoing switch in meds. It’s pretty major. I am doing a number of things at once. I am getting off W*llbutrin (which is a drug I have enjoyed in that it has had so few side effects, or so I thought. But now I think that it has been creating a long standing sleep disorder – that I didn’t have until recently (as in – it seems that it might be related to the Wellbutrin, which can be known to cause sleep disorders – as can diabetes and obesity, and I have been gaining weight over the months and years). Okay, so I’m stepping down the W*llbutrin on an attempt to get off it. After a month, when I see my MD again, she and I will discuss starting me on Eff*xor – one of the thousand anti-d’s I haven’t tried yet. It’s supposed to have a weight loss effect – but then so is Pr*zac, at least for some people, and it didn’t for me. We’ll see. I’m also changing the way I am handling my chronic pain. I have been taking P*rcoset regularly – as well as V*lium – partly to control leg cramps. (I have bone spurs which impinge on my sciatic nerves, besides which, the nerves where damaged by my second disc herniation, which was left untreated for a year, even though I *knew* I needed surgery – MDs – you can’t tell them anything. Try this, try that. I know nerve pain when I feel it, and I knew I needed the stupid disc taken out. I feel smack down on my tailbone and popped a disc that had been bulging for years.) The V*lium also affects sleep, of course. Well, so does the P*rcoset. So, cutting down on both is part of an effort to deal differently w/the sleep disorder. C*tch-22: I am not an addictive personality or somatic type (thank goodness – my issue is food, not substances) – so I don’t have a psychological problem, or even much of a physical problem w/cutting down on the drugs, and ultimately, it will be good, because using less P*rcoset means that it will be more effective when I do use it. Anyhow – the C*tch-22 is that when I cut down on the narcs, I get two "w*thdrawal" effects: one is an occasional slight sore throat – almost too mild to notice. The other, though, is pretty painful – well, very painful – when it sets in: I get screamingly bad leg cramps, suddenly, in the night. So guess what? I have to keep a little box of V*lium by my bed, because it is the best muscle relaxant available, and it works right away. But – still – I am cutting back on everything, and I know from past experience that eventually, I won’t need the nighttime "fix." Oh – and I’ve starting using lots of Gl*cosamine/Ch*ndroitin/MSM as part of the new pain management routine. I also have not much cartilege in my knees, and have started taking a new anti-inflammatory developed esp. for people who can’t take the ones that rough up the stomach – and I can’t, because of all the other drugs I take that are rough on the stomach. I’m fine until I add the anti-inflam. So – behold: B[e]xtra the wonder drug!!! When I take it, the improvement in my knees is fantastic With the onset of the cold weather, I am in pretty much pain again, so now I’m doing the G-C-MSM thing. Even after a few days I can feel it – like tonight we were doing kn*fe self-defense in karate, and a lot of it involves being thrown on the floor by the one defending. I am working w/a great street fighter type (a sw**tie of a guy, but he knows what he’s doing – so it’s super-great working w/him – and he respects me, says I have good moves – it’s going to work out – another post on that in a bit). Anyhow, he helps me up off the floor w/a pull-up (as the guys do w/each other, even – it’s a thing, you know, you even see football players do it) – but before, even w/that, my knees used to hurt. Well, tonight, we had a pretty hard work-out in class, and then we had instructors’ class afterward, where we usually stand in a circle for half an hour and discuss things and sometimes run through things physically – and I often find myself having to sit down because my knees or back hurt – but tonight I only sat down for a very few minutes. So: long answer to short question – why? Well, because I slept, so I felt like I had messed up – like – fallen down coming out of the starting gate (but – but – I’m trying to deal w/a sleep disorder!!). And, then, the change in meds is bound to be messing w/my head, yes? Oh, yeah: and my son’s b’day is Sunday. He will be 12. I used not to trigger for holidays, but now I do, because I feel them to be opportunities for failure. Now that I am writing this – I can tell myself not to be ridiculous – I can make this an opportunity for success. (After all – I have lots under my control.) Thanks for the question, SofT. And thanks for caring – Beauty. Hello Beauty, *sad* :O( Wish you weren’t feeling so badly about yourself yet understand. Has anything happened recently that triggered this bout of self-hatred? I’m listening if you want to talk about this some more. SofT Again. Completely enveloped in it. Swamped. I can’t take the up and down anymore – I say I can’t but I know I have to, and that’s even worse. Each down makes me h*te myself more. I’ve never been so horrible – I’ve never been in so bad a spot – worse and worse and worse, even when lifted momentarily. I h*te myself worse than my own worst enemy. Okay, I know the standard answer: it’s safer to h*te myself. So? Does that make me feel any better? It just makes me feel more stupid, to even *know* better and to succumb. Just makes me feel morally lazy for allowing myself to be overcome. Ick. Can’t write anymore because where it goes from here is sewer-worthy. Beauty.
– The colors blend, the edges soften. Swirling and mixing we are becoming white light.
Response:
Hello Beauty, If you want to talk some more, I’m still listening and I will be online for a bit longer and then I’d better get some sleep as I sorely need some as well. Pls know that I was mostly laughing at myself for having taken years to cultivate a relationship with you that I like and am comfortable with, feels nice and well earned-deserved. Sorry for the wording, didn’t mean to include-insinuate you in the "us" but rather "us" as in me and others in TN. Later, after I’ve gotten some sleep, I’ll read here some more, I hope you’ll post more. I got off of a 15.5 hour shift 6.5 hours ago and I’m totally wiped out. Take care. SofT – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let me keep this short and simple: Bingo. You’ve hit on all the right spots, and, no I hadn’t heard the adage, but in this case it is probably spot-on – and I’ll look for it in other cases as well. Heh. Only took years. Heh. Beauty. Hello Beauty, Yer welcome for the caring. :O) *smiling* And, thank you for your responses … see, I told you I would be listening *g*. And yes, I too appreciate the direction, place and changes in our relationship and it only took us years to get here too! Oh how I love taking lengthy journeys for short paths. <vbg And hey, congrats on the weigh loss you’ve achieved so far! I know how hard it is to deal with food-weight issues … kinda been a focus for me these past two years and I’ve made great strides so I really do hope you continued successes. :O) *clearing throat* As to the med changes. It may be possible that the changes you’re making might bring on some depression, and you might want to check with your Dr as to what you might expect to experience during these changes and report to hir what you are presently experiencing. I’m not clear on the half-life to what you’ve been taking nor the specific side-effects associated with withdrawal that one might tend to see, so might be a good idea to do a check-in. You can also call a pharmacist as they tend to know a whole lot more about stuff like this. As to what Jill suggested regarding a possible dietary deficiency and supplements to address leg spasms … low levels of certain minerals as electrolytes (magnesium, potassium, calcium and sodium) has been linked to leg spasms. And here are some possible remedies you might employ to see if they help … Drink more water and consider regular supplements as calcium (esp calcium), magnesium, potassium and sodium but only if your sodium intake is low or if you sweat a lot. Other things you can do is try stretching your calves regularly during the day and at night. You can often prevent night cramps by exhausting the stretch reflex before you go to bed by stretching your calf muscles with wall pushups and applying a heating pad for 10 minutes before going to bed. Also, keeping blankets loose at the foot of the bed may help prevent unnatural positioning of your feet and toes which may also cause night time cramping. Switching focus … Ever hear the adage that what a person tends to say last may be the most telling? Well, this came up for me as I finished reading both of your posts. I found myself wondering if the last things you said in your posts are the most telling to what has recently happened that may have triggered this recent bout of self-hatred. I don’t know if it is or not, so I’ll paste and snip the parts to which this came up for me and perhaps you might reread them to see if perhaps the bulk of the ‘energy source’ to this bout of self-hatred might lie more here than in the recent medication changes. (1st quote) Oh, yeah: and my son’s b’day is Sunday. He will be 12. I used not to trigger for holidays, but now I do, because I feel them to be opportunities for failure. Now that I am writing this – I can tell myself not to be ridiculous – I can make this an opportunity for success. (After all – I have lots under my control.) (2nd quote) How on earch could I forget one of the most important factors in how I am feeling right now? My whole psyche is struggling around re-arranging a habitual coping mechanism: comfort eating. [snip] It was the getting started that was hard. But – it’s bound to affect my feelings a lot, at least at first, isn’t it? Wondering if perhaps exploring the feelings around the "opportunities for failure" and food as it pertains to weight gain, weight loss, depression and self-hatred? Just a thought. SofT
Response:
I *love* bananas, but they are disallowed for the present on my weight-loss thingie – lots and lots of sugary carbs. (Diabetics are only supposed to eat half at a time, once a day, anyhow. Bleah.) As for quinine: well – did you hear? The latest Nobel in chemistry was a shared one – one being for the discovery of certain kinds of – um – proteins? molecules? cells? – that help move water around in living things. There happen to be a ton of different kinds of them, now that someone has thought to accidentally find them, and one of the clinical results may be progress toward a cure for malaria. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s right cause one of the preg suggestions was a banana at bedtime Quinine is also good cause then you won’t get malaria *grin* Rainbow Colors (Jill) potassium. drink quinine. — astri Just something to look into. I can’t remember which mineral it is but if you are deficient in one (or if your balance of minerals is off) you can get leg cramps. The choices are potassium, magnesium, sodium, and calcium. It has something to do with balancing things and I’m pretty sure it isn’t as simple as a calcium deficiency. It is a common problem with women who are preg so you can find the mineral at preg websites (one that comes to mind is babycenter.com) and I know that vitamin/health food stores know about it. Maybe if you can get a balance of these minerals your cramps will lessen. Rainbow Colors (Jill) Hi SofT – Don’t you think it’s strange that you and I have had such sharp differences in the past, and yet – it seems we are able to speak gently to one another now? I just thought I’d put that in. Life does change. People change. Relationships change. I’m glad ours did. Thanks for your concern, and for the question – it is a good one. I think, when I think about it, that there are a couple of answers. One: after having had a long talk w/a woman who had lots of encouraging and strengthening suggestions for me, I spent the entire next day sleeping – the day of the evening I wrote that self-h*tred post. And also – well, here is an obvious change: I am undergoing switch in meds. It’s pretty major. I am doing a number of things at once. I am getting off W*llbutrin (which is a drug I have enjoyed in that it has had so few side effects, or so I thought. But now I think that it has been creating a long standing sleep disorder – that I didn’t have until recently (as in – it seems that it might be related to the Wellbutrin, which can be known to cause sleep disorders – as can diabetes and obesity, and I have been gaining weight over the months and years). Okay, so I’m stepping down the W*llbutrin on an attempt to get off it. After a month, when I see my MD again, she and I will discuss starting me on Eff*xor – one of the thousand anti-d’s I haven’t tried yet. It’s supposed to have a weight loss effect – but then so is Pr*zac, at least for some people, and it didn’t for me. We’ll see. I’m also changing the way I am handling my chronic pain. I have been taking P*rcoset regularly – as well as V*lium – partly to control leg cramps. (I have bone spurs which impinge on my sciatic nerves, besides which, the nerves where damaged by my second disc herniation, which was left untreated for a year, even though I *knew* I needed surgery – MDs – you can’t tell them anything. Try this, try that. I know nerve pain when I feel it, and I knew I needed the stupid disc taken out. I feel smack down on my tailbone and popped a disc that had been bulging for years.) The V*lium also affects sleep, of course. Well, so does the P*rcoset. So, cutting down on both is part of an effort to deal differently w/the sleep disorder. C*tch-22: I am not an addictive personality or somatic type (thank goodness – my issue is food, not substances) – so I don’t have a psychological problem, or even much of a physical problem w/cutting down on the drugs, and ultimately, it will be good, because using less P*rcoset means that it will be more effective when I do use it. Anyhow – the C*tch-22 is that when I cut down on the narcs, I get two "w*thdrawal" effects: one is an occasional slight sore throat – almost too mild to notice. The other, though, is pretty painful – well, very painful – when it sets in: I get screamingly bad leg cramps, suddenly, in the night. So guess what? I have to keep a little box of V*lium by my bed, because it is the best muscle relaxant available, and it works right away. But – still – I am cutting back on everything, and I know from past experience that eventually, I won’t need the nighttime "fix." Oh – and I’ve starting using lots of Gl*cosamine/Ch*ndroitin/MSM as part of the new pain management routine. I also have not much cartilege in my knees, and have started taking a new anti-inflammatory developed esp. for people who can’t take the ones that rough up the stomach – and I can’t, because of all the other drugs I take that are rough on the stomach. I’m fine until I add the anti-inflam. So – behold: B[e]xtra the wonder drug!!! When I take it, the improvement in my knees is fantastic With the onset of the cold weather, I am in pretty much pain again, so now I’m doing the G-C-MSM thing. Even after a few days I can feel it – like tonight we were doing kn*fe self-defense in karate, and a lot of it involves being thrown on the floor by the one defending. I am working w/a great street fighter type (a sw**tie of a guy, but he knows what he’s doing – so it’s super-great working w/him – and he respects me, says I have good moves – it’s going to work out – another post on that in a bit). Anyhow, he helps me up off the floor w/a pull-up (as the guys do w/each other, even – it’s a thing, you know, you even see football players do it) – but before, even w/that, my knees used to hurt. Well, tonight, we had a pretty hard work-out in class, and then we had instructors’ class afterward, where we usually stand in a circle for half an hour and discuss things and sometimes run through things physically – and I often find myself having to sit down because my knees or back hurt – but tonight I only sat down for a very few minutes. So: long answer to short question – why? Well, because I slept, so I felt like I had messed up – like – fallen down coming out of the starting gate (but – but – I’m trying to deal w/a sleep disorder!!). And, then, the change in meds is bound to be messing w/my head, yes? Oh, yeah: and my son’s b’day is Sunday. He will be 12. I used not to trigger for holidays, but now I do, because I feel them to be opportunities for failure. Now that I am writing this – I can tell myself not to be ridiculous – I can make this an opportunity for success. (After all – I have lots under my control.) Thanks for the question, SofT. And thanks for caring – Beauty. Hello Beauty, *sad* :O( Wish you weren’t feeling so badly about yourself yet understand. Has anything happened recently that triggered this bout of self-hatred? I’m listening if you want to talk about this some more. SofT Again. Completely enveloped in it. Swamped. I can’t take the up and down anymore – I say I can’t but I know I have to, and that’s even worse. Each down makes me h*te myself more. I’ve never been so horrible – I’ve never been in so bad a spot – worse and worse and worse, even when lifted momentarily. I h*te myself worse than my own worst enemy. Okay, I know the standard answer: it’s safer to h*te myself. So? Does that make me feel any better? It just makes me feel more stupid, to even *know* better and to succumb. Just makes me feel morally lazy for allowing myself to be overcome. Ick. Can’t write anymore because where it goes from here is sewer-worthy. Beauty.
Response:
P. S. - well, you might get or have malaria, but the symptoms won’t be as bad – or you may be less likely to get it. That’s true of the supposed "anti-malarial" drugs they have as Rx versions, too, so far as I know – at least that was the case when I went to Kenya. You took your At*brine and you took your chances. And the thing about carrying babies, as you know, is that it completely redistributes (as well as adding to) the body weight of the mthr – so there can be different stresses on the spine, and sometimes the baby is inconsiderate enough to decide to lie right on the sciatic nerve. Bananas ain’t gonna help that, unless you can somehow convince the baby to take them as a pay-on-demand bribe. Oh well. Meanwhile, I guess, you can enjoy eating them yummy fruits anyhow. I think potatoes have a lot of potassium, too, or am I just suffering from deceit by alliteration? Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s right cause one of the preg suggestions was a banana at bedtime Quinine is also good cause then you won’t get malaria *grin* Rainbow Colors (Jill) potassium. drink quinine. — astri Just something to look into. I can’t remember which mineral it is but if you are deficient in one (or if your balance of minerals is off) you can get leg cramps. The choices are potassium, magnesium, sodium, and calcium. It has something to do with balancing things and I’m pretty sure it isn’t as simple as a calcium deficiency. It is a common problem with women who are preg so you can find the mineral at preg websites (one that comes to mind is babycenter.com) and I know that vitamin/health food stores know about it. Maybe if you can get a balance of these minerals your cramps will lessen. Rainbow Colors (Jill) Hi SofT – Don’t you think it’s strange that you and I have had such sharp differences in the past, and yet – it seems we are able to speak gently to one another now? I just thought I’d put that in. Life does change. People change. Relationships change. I’m glad ours did. Thanks for your concern, and for the question – it is a good one. I think, when I think about it, that there are a couple of answers. One: after having had a long talk w/a woman who had lots of encouraging and strengthening suggestions for me, I spent the entire next day sleeping – the day of the evening I wrote that self-h*tred post. And also – well, here is an obvious change: I am undergoing switch in meds. It’s pretty major. I am doing a number of things at once. I am getting off W*llbutrin (which is a drug I have enjoyed in that it has had so few side effects, or so I thought. But now I think that it has been creating a long standing sleep disorder – that I didn’t have until recently (as in – it seems that it might be related to the Wellbutrin, which can be known to cause sleep disorders – as can diabetes and t: Isity, and I have been gaining weight over the months and years). Okay, so I’m stepping down the W*llbutrin on an attempt to get off it. After a month, when I see my MD again, she and I will discuss starting me on Eff*xor – one of the thousand anti-d’s I haven’t tried yet. It’s supposed to have a weight loss effect – but then so is Pr*zac, at least for some people, and it didn’t for me. We’ll see. I’m also changing the way I am handling my chronic pain. I have been taking P*rcoset regularly – as well as V*lium – partly to control leg cramps. (I have bone spurs which impinge on my sciatic nerves, besides which, the nerves where damaged by my second disc herniation, which was left untreated for a year, even though I *knew* I needed surgery – MDs – you can’t tell them anything. Try this, try that. I know nerve pain when I feel it, and I knew I needed the stupid disc taken out. I feel smack down on my tailbone and popped a disc that had been bulging for years.) The V*lium also affects sleep, of course. Well, so does the P*rcoset. So, cutting down on both is part of an effort to deal differently w/the sleep disorder. C*tch-22: I am not an addictive personality or somatic type (thank goodness – my issue is food, not substances) – so I don’t have a psychological problem, or even much of a physical problem w/cutting down on the drugs, and ultimately, it will be good, because using less P*rcoset means that it will be more effective when I do use it. Anyhow – the C*tch-22 is that when I cut down on the narcs, I get two "w*thdrawal" effects: one is an occasional slight sore throat – almost too mild to notice. The other, though, is pretty painful – well, very painful – when it sets in: I get screamingly bad leg cramps, suddenly, in the night. So guess what? I have to keep a little box of V*lium by my bed, because it is the best muscle relaxant available, and it works right away. But – still – I am cutting back on everything, and I know from past experience that eventually, I won’t need the nighttime "fix." Oh – and I’ve starting using lots of Gl*cosamine/Ch*ndroitin/MSM as part of the new pain management routine. I also have not much cartilege in my knees, and have started taking a new anti-inflammatory developed esp. for people who can’t take the ones that rough up the stomach – and I can’t, because of all the other drugs I take that are rough on the stomach. I’m fine until I add the anti-inflam. So – behold: B[e]xtra the wonder drug!!! When I take it, the improvement in my knees is fantastic With the onset of the cold weather, I am in pretty much pain again, so now I’m doing the G-C-MSM thing. Even after a few days I can feel it – like tonight we were doing kn*fe self-defense in karate, and a lot of it involves being thrown on the floor by the one defending. I am working w/a great street fighter type (a sw**tie of a guy, but he knows what he’s doing – so it’s super-great working w/him – and he respects me, says I have good moves – it’s going to work out – another post on that in a bit). Anyhow, he helps me up off the floor w/a pull-up (as the guys do w/each other, even – it’s a thing, you know, you even see football players do it) – but before, even w/that, my knees used to hurt. Well, tonight, we had a pretty hard work-out in class, and then we had instructors’ class afterward, where we usually stand in a circle for half an hour and discuss things and sometimes run through things physically – and I often find myself having to sit down because my knees or back hurt – but tonight I only sat down for a very few minutes. So: long answer to short question – why? Well, because I slept, so I felt like I had messed up – like – fallen down coming out of the starting gate (but – but – I’m trying to deal w/a sleep disorder!!). And, then, the change in meds is bound to be messing w/my head, yes? Oh, yeah: and my son’s b’day is Sunday. He will be 12. I used not to trigger for holidays, but now I do, because I feel them to be opportunities for failure. Now that I am writing this – I can tell myself not to be ridiculous – I can make this an opportunity for success. (After all – I have lots under my control.) Thanks for the question, SofT. And thanks for caring – Beauty. Hello Beauty, *sad* :O( Wish you weren’t feeling so badly about yourself yet understand. Has anything happened recently that triggered this bout of self-hatred? I’m listening if you want to talk about this some more. SofT Again. Completely enveloped in it. Swamped. I can’t take the up and down anymore – I say I can’t but I know I have to, and that’s even worse. Each down makes me h*te myself more. I’ve never been so horrible – I’ve never been in so bad a spot – worse and worse and worse, even when lifted momentarily. I h*te myself worse than my own worst enemy. Okay, I know the standard answer: it’s safer to h*te myself. So? Does that make me feel any better? It just makes me feel more stupid, to even *know* better and to succumb. Just makes me feel morally lazy for allowing myself to be overcome. Ick. Can’t write anymore because where it goes from here is sewer-worthy. Beauty.
Response:
You have no reason to be sorry for seeming to include me in the "us." Me was in the "us" too, even if it wasn’t in your "us." Yes, I would like to talk more about things – the two things you mentioned my having written about at the end – about my son’s b’day (and opportunity for failure) and about the food stuff (also opportunity for failure, incidentally). But, like you, I haven’t the energy quite now, so perhaps in the nearish future – but things are going to get b’day busy, so it might even end up being after the b’day (which is the 12th). On the other hand – on the 11th, I’ll be on my own, because my son doesn’t want "M*m" tagging along to a trip to a huge, exciting amusement park, when he is just turning twelve and trying to "hang out" casually w/a new thirteen year old friend, w/out seeming to be "supervised" too obviously by "D*d" – who will "blend in" better than I will, I guess, and – very importantly – can be counted on not to get lost on the way there or back. Rest up. We’ll talk later. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello Beauty, If you want to talk some more, I’m still listening and I will be online for a bit longer and then I’d better get some sleep as I sorely need some as well. Pls know that I was mostly laughing at myself for having taken years to cultivate a relationship with you that I like and am comfortable with, feels nice and well earned-deserved. Sorry for the wording, didn’t mean to include-insinuate you in the "us" but rather "us" as in me and others in TN. Later, after I’ve gotten some sleep, I’ll read here some more, I hope you’ll post more. I got off of a 15.5 hour shift 6.5 hours ago and I’m totally wiped out. Take care. SofT Let me keep this short and simple: Bingo. You’ve hit on all the right spots, and, no I hadn’t heard the adage, but in this case it is probably spot-on – and I’ll look for it in other cases as well. Heh. Only took years. Heh. Beauty. Hello Beauty, Yer welcome for the caring. :O) *smiling* And, thank you for your responses … see, I told you I would be listening *g*. And yes, I too appreciate the direction, place and changes in our relationship and it only took us years to get here too! Oh how I love taking lengthy journeys for short paths. <vbg And hey, congrats on the weigh loss you’ve achieved so far! I know how hard it is to deal with food-weight issues … kinda been a focus for me these past two years and I’ve made great strides so I really do hope you continued successes. :O) *clearing throat* As to the med changes. It may be possible that the changes you’re making might bring on some depression, and you might want to check with your Dr as to what you might expect to experience during these changes and report to hir what you are presently experiencing. I’m not clear on the half-life to what you’ve been taking nor the specific side-effects associated with withdrawal that one might tend to see, so might be a good idea to do a check-in. You can also call a pharmacist as they tend to know a whole lot more about stuff like this. As to what Jill suggested regarding a possible dietary deficiency and supplements to address leg spasms … low levels of certain minerals as electrolytes (magnesium, potassium, calcium and sodium) has been linked to leg spasms. And here are some possible remedies you might employ to see if they help … Drink more water and consider regular supplements as calcium (esp calcium), magnesium, potassium and sodium but only if your sodium intake is low or if you sweat a lot. Other things you can do is try stretching your calves regularly during the day and at night. You can often prevent night cramps by exhausting the stretch reflex before you go to bed by stretching your calf muscles with wall pushups and applying a heating pad for 10 minutes before going to bed. Also, keeping blankets loose at the foot of the bed may help prevent unnatural positioning of your feet and toes which may also cause night time cramping. Switching focus … Ever hear the adage that what a person tends to say last may be the most telling? Well, this came up for me as I finished reading both of your posts. I found myself wondering if the last things you said in your posts are the most telling to what has recently happened that may have triggered this recent bout of self-hatred. I don’t know if it is or not, so I’ll paste and snip the parts to which this came up for me and perhaps you might reread them to see if perhaps the bulk of the ‘energy source’ to this bout of self-hatred might lie more here than in the recent medication changes. (1st quote) Oh, yeah: and my son’s b’day is Sunday. He will be 12. I used not to trigger for holidays, but now I do, because I feel them to be opportunities for failure. Now that I am writing this – I can tell myself not to be ridiculous – I can make this an opportunity for success. (After all – I have lots under my control.) (2nd quote) How on earch could I forget one of the most important factors in how I am feeling right now? My whole psyche is struggling around re-arranging a habitual coping mechanism: comfort eating. [snip] It was the getting started that was hard. But – it’s bound to affect my feelings a lot, at least at first, isn’t it? Wondering if perhaps exploring the feelings around the "opportunities for failure" and food as it pertains to weight gain, weight loss, depression and self-hatred? Just a thought. SofT
Response:
Beauty, i wish i could have been able to express myself as well as jt(socrates n blue) here. altho this is still triggery (for me at least) im moved by the words, and wish i could somehow have got a similar message to you with the same point. thankfuly jts crew was able to do a much better job n i thank them for being able to say more of the right thing than i am for you. its not your fault. your special and i believe you have the strength n power to work thru this. nuff said. Celeste.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – you are not the ichor inside you. you are the innocent human being, forced to suffer needlessly. think of a b*by, newborn into the world – soft and wriggling, mewling adorably…innocent. that innocence was you, and still is you. that sweet, pure innocence was sullied by rotten, stinking filth. the first handful of dirt thrown onto a gleaming c*sket feels profane, wrong. the soul shrieks at the sight, gasps in horror that someone would so deliberately dirty something so pristine. it wasn’t dirt thrown onto your pristine innocence, Beauty. it was worse. that a soul as beautiful as yours was profaned so horribly is a crime without measure, beyond any comprehension. grieve with me, please, that the world suffered such an offense – the loss of the joy that should have emanated from you all of your life to this point, reaching out to others and aiding them to be joyous, too. rejoice with me, please, that you still live, that hope is real, that you *DO* reach out to others and share what you have made of yourself: a woman of strength and courage, dedication and compassion. You may not see this, but I do. You teach. You mother. You comfort those in need. You are a living, breathing testament to the truth that hope *IS* real. for as much as the world needs joy, perhaps it needs hope more. Without it, none of us *could* reach the point of emanating joy radiantly. my goal in life is to increase the level of positives in the world. it’s a little bit fuzzy, this concept. but essentially "positives" can be seen to equal "warm fuzzies". it’s an extrapolation on "leave the world a better place", ya know? (sorry – blue switched in a bit ago.) being able to smile at someone, and have that smile brighten their day lessens the negatives in the world and increases the positives, you know? because there are so many wounded souls in the world, people *need* to know that it’s *not* foolish to have hope. for every wounded soul that heals, that’s one more person able to increase the joy-quotient in the world, you see? so helping one person reach the point of being a joyous presence in the world is worth all of the joy-plusses that *that* person will be able to achieve. see the math? see, i sing, and bring a sense of wonder to the people who hear me – most of the time. ok, sometimes. ;) some ppl just want me to sh*t up. :) and sometimes i’m not on my game, as it were. but i work at expressing joy when i sing, so others can feel it with me. i work at singing from the solid foundation of hope i feel inside of me, so that others might be able to hear me and say "the world just can’t be that bad a place if someone can sing like that" <sheesh, what an ego… . and i work with people, to whatever extent i’m able, trying to help them however i can. in real life, i’m a fat, unemployed woman with a *LOT* of mental problems and not a lot of prospects for a career or whatever. but that’s only what some people might see. in truth, I’m right on track with my life-goals. … it wasn’t your fault, beauty. you did nothing wrong. everything that happened after that was a reaction to the original badstuff. forgive yourself for being human. that’s not your fault, either. ;) jt (several of us, most notably Socrates and blue) Again. Completely enveloped in it. Swamped. I can’t take the up and down anymore – I say I can’t but I know I have to, and that’s even worse. Each down makes me h*te myself more. I’ve never been so horrible – I’ve never been in so bad a spot – worse and worse and worse, even when lifted momentarily. I h*te myself worse than my own worst enemy. Okay, I know the standard answer: it’s safer to h*te myself. So? Does that make me feel any better? It just makes me feel more stupid, to even *know* better and to succumb. Just makes me feel morally lazy for allowing myself to be overcome. Ick. Can’t write anymore because where it goes from here is sewer-worthy. Beauty.
Response:
Thanks. As you will note, as much great effort went into jt’s response, I remain unconvinced. I’m a tough case. Thus, I am sooooo glad that you are moved by jt’s words, and hope that maybe they can do you some good, if that’s the kind of good you need – sometimes words sink in for me and sometimes I’m just so coated in my own duck-grease that I float on my own lake of melancholy w/out a hope of anything warm getting through (well, I mean, I hear it and believe in the warmth and true belief of the person who said it – but can’t believe that it really applies to me). Best – Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Beauty, i wish i could have been able to express myself as well as jt(socrates n blue) here. altho this is still triggery (for me at least) im moved by the words, and wish i could somehow have got a similar message to you with the same point. thankfuly jts crew was able to do a much better job n i thank them for being able to say more of the right thing than i am for you. its not your fault. your special and i believe you have the strength n power to work thru this. nuff said. Celeste. you are not the ichor inside you. you are the innocent human being, forced to suffer needlessly. think of a b*by, newborn into the world – soft and wriggling, mewling adorably…innocent. that innocence was you, and still is you. that sweet, pure innocence was sullied by rotten, stinking filth. the first handful of dirt thrown onto a gleaming c*sket feels profane, wrong. the soul shrieks at the sight, gasps in horror that someone would so deliberately dirty something so pristine. it wasn’t dirt thrown onto your pristine innocence, Beauty. it was worse. that a soul as beautiful as yours was profaned so horribly is a crime without measure, beyond any comprehension. grieve with me, please, that the world suffered such an offense – the loss of the joy that should have emanated from you all of your life to this point, reaching out to others and aiding them to be joyous, too. rejoice with me, please, that you still live, that hope is real, that you *DO* reach out to others and share what you have made of yourself: a woman of strength and courage, dedication and compassion. You may not see this, but I do. You teach. You mother. You comfort those in need. You are a living, breathing testament to the truth that hope *IS* real. for as much as the world needs joy, perhaps it needs hope more. Without it, none of us *could* reach the point of emanating joy radiantly. my goal in life is to increase the level of positives in the world. it’s a little bit fuzzy, this concept. but essentially "positives" can be seen to equal "warm fuzzies". it’s an extrapolation on "leave the world a better place", ya know? (sorry – blue switched in a bit ago.) being able to smile at someone, and have that smile brighten their day lessens the negatives in the world and increases the positives, you know? because there are so many wounded souls in the world, people *need* to know that it’s *not* foolish to have hope. for every wounded soul that heals, that’s one more person able to increase the joy-quotient in the world, you see? so helping one person reach the point of being a joyous presence in the world is worth all of the joy-plusses that *that* person will be able to achieve. see the math? see, i sing, and bring a sense of wonder to the people who hear me – most of the time. ok, sometimes. ;) some ppl just want me to sh*t up. :) and sometimes i’m not on my game, as it were. but i work at expressing joy when i sing, so others can feel it with me. i work at singing from the solid foundation of hope i feel inside of me, so that others might be able to hear me and say "the world just can’t be that bad a place if someone can sing like that" <sheesh, what an ego… . and i work with people, to whatever extent i’m able, trying to help them however i can. in real life, i’m a fat, unemployed woman with a *LOT* of mental problems and not a lot of prospects for a career or whatever. but that’s only what some people might see. in truth, I’m right on track with my life-goals. … it wasn’t your fault, beauty. you did nothing wrong. everything that happened after that was a reaction to the original badstuff. forgive yourself for being human. that’s not your fault, either. ;) jt (several of us, most notably Socrates and blue) Again. Completely enveloped in it. Swamped. I can’t take the up and down anymore – I say I can’t but I know I have to, and that’s even worse. Each down makes me h*te myself more. I’ve never been so horrible – I’ve never been in so bad a spot – worse and worse and worse, even when lifted momentarily. I h*te myself worse than my own worst enemy. Okay, I know the standard answer: it’s safer to h*te myself. So? Does that make me feel any better? It just makes me feel more stupid, to even *know* better and to succumb. Just makes me feel morally lazy for allowing myself to be overcome. Ick. Can’t write anymore because where it goes from here is sewer-worthy. Beauty.
Response:
hey – that duck-grease keeps ya floatin, at least. that’s something. ;) jt
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks. As you will note, as much great effort went into jt’s response, I remain unconvinced. I’m a tough case. Thus, I am sooooo glad that you are moved by jt’s words, and hope that maybe they can do you some good, if that’s the kind of good you need – sometimes words sink in for me and sometimes I’m just so coated in my own duck-grease that I float on my own lake of melancholy w/out a hope of anything warm getting through (well, I mean, I hear it and believe in the warmth and true belief of the person who said it – but can’t believe that it really applies to me). Best – Beauty. Beauty, i wish i could have been able to express myself as well as jt(socrates n blue) here. altho this is still triggery (for me at least) im moved by the words, and wish i could somehow have got a similar message to you with the same
point. thankfuly jts crew was able to do a much better job n i thank them for
being able to say more – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – of the right thing than i am for you. its not your fault. your special and i believe you have the strength n power to work thru this. nuff said. Celeste. you are not the ichor inside you. you are the innocent human being, forced to suffer needlessly. think of a b*by, newborn into the world – soft and wriggling, mewling adorably…innocent. that innocence was you, and still is you. that sweet, pure innocence was sullied by rotten, stinking filth. the first handful of dirt thrown onto a gleaming c*sket feels profane, wrong. the soul shrieks at the sight, gasps in horror that someone would so deliberately dirty something so pristine. it wasn’t dirt thrown onto your pristine innocence,
Beauty. it was worse. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – that a soul as beautiful as yours was profaned so horribly is a crime without measure, beyond any comprehension. grieve with me, please, that the world suffered such an offense – the loss of the joy that should have emanated from you all of your life to this point, reaching out to others and aiding them to be joyous, too. rejoice with me, please, that you still live, that hope is real, that you *DO* reach out to others and share what you have made of yourself: a woman of strength and courage, dedication and compassion. You may not see this, but I do. You teach. You mother. You comfort those in need. You are a living, breathing testament to the truth that hope *IS* real. for as much as the world needs joy, perhaps it needs hope more. Without it, none of us *could* reach the point of emanating joy radiantly. my goal in life is to increase the level of positives in the world. it’s a little bit fuzzy, this concept. but essentially
"positives" can be seen to equal "warm fuzzies". it’s an extrapolation on "leave the world a better place", ya know? (sorry – blue switched in a bit ago.) being able to smile at someone, and have that smile brighten their day
lessens the negatives – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – in the world and increases the positives, you know? because there are so many wounded souls in the world, people *need* to know that it’s *not* foolish to have hope. for every wounded soul that heals, that’s one more person able to increase the joy-quotient in the world, you see? so helping one person reach the point of being a joyous presence in the world is worth all of the joy-plusses that *that* person will be able to achieve. see the math? see, i sing, and bring a sense of wonder to the people who hear me – most of the time. ok, sometimes. ;) some ppl just want me to sh*t up. :) and sometimes i’m not on my game, as it were. but i work at expressing joy when i sing, so others can feel it with me. i work at
singing from the solid foundation of hope i feel inside of me, so that others might be able to hear me and say "the world just can’t be that bad a place if someone can sing like that" <sheesh, what an ego… . and i work with people, to whatever extent i’m able, trying to help them however i can. in real life, i’m a fat, unemployed woman with a *LOT* of mental problems and not a lot of prospects for a career or whatever.
but that’s only what – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – some people might see. in truth, I’m right on track with my life-goals. … it wasn’t your fault, beauty. you did nothing wrong. everything that happened after that was a reaction to the original badstuff. forgive yourself for being human. that’s not your fault, either. ;) jt (several of us, most notably Socrates and blue) Again. Completely enveloped in it. Swamped. I can’t
take the up and down anymore – I say I can’t but I know I have to, and that’s even worse. Each down makes me h*te myself more. I’ve never been so horrible – I’ve never been in so bad a spot – worse and worse and worse, even when lifted momentarily. I h*te myself worse than my own
worst enemy. Okay, I – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – know the standard answer: it’s safer to h*te myself. So? Does that make me feel any better? It just makes me feel more stupid, to even *know* better and to succumb. Just makes me feel morally lazy for allowing myself to be overcome. Ick. Can’t write anymore because where it goes from here is sewer-worthy. Beauty.
Response:
and don’t sweat it, beauts. i know ya l*ve me. :) jt
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks. As you will note, as much great effort went into jt’s response, I remain unconvinced. I’m a tough case. Thus, I am sooooo glad that you are moved by jt’s words, and hope that maybe they can do you some good, if that’s the kind of good you need – sometimes words sink in for me and sometimes I’m just so coated in my own duck-grease that I float on my own lake of melancholy w/out a hope of anything warm getting through (well, I mean, I hear it and believe in the warmth and true belief of the person who said it – but can’t believe that it really applies to me). Best – Beauty. Beauty, i wish i could have been able to express myself as well as jt(socrates n blue) here. altho this is still triggery (for me at least) im moved by the words, and wish i could somehow have got a similar message to you with the same
point. thankfuly jts crew was able to do a much better job n i thank them for
being able to say more – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – of the right thing than i am for you. its not your fault. your special and i believe you have the strength n power to work thru this. nuff said. Celeste. you are not the ichor inside you. you are the innocent human being, forced to suffer needlessly. think of a b*by, newborn into the world – soft and wriggling, mewling adorably…innocent. that innocence was you, and still is you. that sweet, pure innocence was sullied by rotten, stinking filth. the first handful of dirt thrown onto a gleaming c*sket feels profane, wrong. the soul shrieks at the sight, gasps in horror that someone would so deliberately dirty something so pristine. it wasn’t dirt thrown onto your pristine innocence,
Beauty. it was worse. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – that a soul as beautiful as yours was profaned so horribly is a crime without measure, beyond any comprehension. grieve with me, please, that the world suffered such an offense – the loss of the joy that should have emanated from you all of your life to this point, reaching out to others and aiding them to be joyous, too. rejoice with me, please, that you still live, that hope is real, that you *DO* reach out to others and share what you have made of yourself: a woman of strength and courage, dedication and compassion. You may not see this, but I do. You teach. You mother. You comfort those in need. You are a living, breathing testament to the truth that hope *IS* real. for as much as the world needs joy, perhaps it needs hope more. Without it, none of us *could* reach the point of emanating joy radiantly. my goal in life is to increase the level of positives in the world. it’s a little bit fuzzy, this concept. but essentially
"positives" can be seen to equal "warm fuzzies". it’s an extrapolation on "leave the world a better place", ya know? (sorry – blue switched in a bit ago.) being able to smile at someone, and have that smile brighten their day
lessens the negatives – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – in the world and increases the positives, you know? because there are so many wounded souls in the world, people *need* to know that it’s *not* foolish to have hope. for every wounded soul that heals, that’s one more person able to increase the joy-quotient in the world, you see? so helping one person reach the point of being a joyous presence in the world is worth all of the joy-plusses that *that* person will be able to achieve. see the math? see, i sing, and bring a sense of wonder to the people who hear me – most of the time. ok, sometimes. ;) some ppl just want me to sh*t up. :) and sometimes i’m not on my game, as it were. but i work at expressing joy when i sing, so others can feel it with me. i work at
singing from the solid foundation of hope i feel inside of me, so that others might be able to hear me and say "the world just can’t be that bad a place if someone can sing like that" <sheesh, what an ego… . and i work with people, to whatever extent i’m able, trying to help them however i can. in real life, i’m a fat, unemployed woman with a *LOT* of mental problems and not a lot of prospects for a career or whatever.
but that’s only what – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – some people might see. in truth, I’m right on track with my life-goals. … it wasn’t your fault, beauty. you did nothing wrong. everything that happened after that was a reaction to the original badstuff. forgive yourself for being human. that’s not your fault, either. ;) jt (several of us, most notably Socrates and blue) Again. Completely enveloped in it. Swamped. I can’t
take the up and down anymore – I say I can’t but I know I have to, and that’s even worse. Each down makes me h*te myself more. I’ve never been so horrible – I’ve never been in so bad a spot – worse and worse and worse, even when lifted momentarily. I h*te myself worse than my own
worst enemy. Okay, I – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – know the standard answer: it’s safer to h*te myself. So? Does that make me feel any better? It just makes me feel more stupid, to even *know* better and to succumb. Just makes me feel morally lazy for allowing myself to be overcome. Ick. Can’t write anymore because where it goes from here is sewer-worthy. Beauty.
Response:
– well – okay – I sweat like a horse at the slightest provocation. So what does that tell you about me, except that - hmmm – maybe I prefer and am closer kin to the noble horse than the sniffy lady???? Oh I am in rare form today. As in – underdone. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – and don’t sweat it, beauts. i know ya l*ve me. :) jt Thanks. As you will note, as much great effort went into jt’s response, I remain unconvinced. I’m a tough case. Thus, I am sooooo glad that you are moved by jt’s words, and hope that maybe they can do you some good, if that’s the kind of good you need – sometimes words sink in for me and sometimes I’m just so coated in my own duck-grease that I float on my own lake of melancholy w/out a hope of anything warm getting through (well, I mean, I hear it and believe in the warmth and true belief of the person who said it – but can’t believe that it really applies to me). Best – Beauty. Beauty, i wish i could have been able to express myself as well as jt(socrates n blue) here. altho this is still triggery (for me at least) im moved by the words, and wish i could somehow have got a similar message to you with the same point. thankfuly jts crew was able to do a much better job n i thank them for being able to say more of the right thing than i am for you. its not your fault. your special and i believe you have the strength n power to work thru this. nuff said. Celeste. you are not the ichor inside you. you are the innocent human being, forced to suffer needlessly. think of a b*by, newborn into the world – soft and wriggling, mewling adorably…innocent. that innocence was you, and still is you. that sweet, pure innocence was sullied by rotten, stinking filth. the first handful of dirt thrown onto a gleaming c*sket feels profane, wrong. the soul shrieks at the sight, gasps in horror that someone would so deliberately dirty something so pristine. it wasn’t dirt thrown onto your pristine innocence, Beauty. it was worse. that a soul as beautiful as yours was profaned so horribly is a crime without measure, beyond any comprehension. grieve with me, please, that the world suffered such an offense – the loss of the joy that should have emanated from you all of your life to this point, reaching out to others and aiding them to be joyous, too. rejoice with me, please, that you still live, that hope is real, that you *DO* reach out to others and share what you have made of yourself: a woman of strength and courage, dedication and compassion. You may not see this, but I do. You teach. You mother. You comfort those in need. You are a living, breathing testament to the truth that hope *IS* real. for as much as the world needs joy, perhaps it needs hope more. Without it, none of us *could* reach the point of emanating joy radiantly. my goal in life is to increase the level of positives in the world. it’s a little bit fuzzy, this concept. but essentially "positives" can be seen to equal "warm fuzzies". it’s an extrapolation on "leave the world a better place", ya know? (sorry – blue switched in a bit ago.) being able to smile at someone, and have that smile brighten their day lessens the negatives in the world and increases the positives, you know? because there are so many wounded souls in the world, people *need* to know that it’s *not* foolish to have hope. for every wounded soul that heals, that’s one more person able to increase the joy-quotient in the world, you see? so helping one person reach the point of being a joyous presence in the world is worth all of the joy-plusses that *that* person will be able to achieve. see the math? see, i sing, and bring a sense of wonder to the people who hear me – most of the time. ok, sometimes. ;) some ppl just want me to sh*t up. :) and sometimes i’m not on my game, as it were. but i work at expressing joy when i sing, so others can feel it with me. i work at singing from the solid foundation of hope i feel inside of me, so that others might be able to hear me and say "the world just can’t be that bad a place if someone can sing like that" <sheesh, what an ego… . and i work with people, to whatever extent i’m able, trying to help them however i can. in real life, i’m a fat, unemployed woman with a *LOT* of mental problems and not a lot of prospects for a career or whatever. but that’s only what some people might see. in truth, I’m right on track with my life-goals. … it wasn’t your fault, beauty. you did nothing wrong. everything that happened after that was a reaction to the original badstuff. forgive yourself for being human. that’s not your fault, either. ;) jt (several of us, most notably Socrates and blue) Again. Completely enveloped in it. Swamped. I can’t take the up and down anymore – I say I can’t but I know I have to, and that’s even worse. Each down makes me h*te myself more. I’ve never been so horrible – I’ve never been in so bad a spot – worse and worse and worse, even when lifted momentarily. I h*te myself worse than my own worst enemy. Okay, I know the standard answer: it’s safer to h*te myself. So? Does that make me feel any better? It just makes me feel more stupid, to even *know* better and to succumb. Just makes me feel morally lazy for allowing myself to be overcome. Ick. Can’t write anymore because where it goes from here is sewer-worthy. Beauty.
Response:
sometimes I wonder; might be better down under (don’t take that too seriously – it’s just a toss-off) Beauty – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hey – that duck-grease keeps ya floatin, at least. that’s something. ;) jt Thanks. As you will note, as much great effort went into jt’s response, I remain unconvinced. I’m a tough case. Thus, I am sooooo glad that you are moved by jt’s words, and hope that maybe they can do you some good, if that’s the kind of good you need – sometimes words sink in for me and sometimes I’m just so coated in my own duck-grease that I float on my own lake of melancholy w/out a hope of anything warm getting through (well, I mean, I hear it and believe in the warmth and true belief of the person who said it – but can’t believe that it really applies to me). Best – Beauty. Beauty, i wish i could have been able to express myself as well as jt(socrates n blue) here. altho this is still triggery (for me at least) im moved by the words, and wish i could somehow have got a similar message to you with the same point. thankfuly jts crew was able to do a much better job n i thank them for being able to say more of the right thing than i am for you. its not your fault. your special and i believe you have the strength n power to work thru this. nuff said. Celeste. you are not the ichor inside you. you are the innocent human being, forced to suffer needlessly. think of a b*by, newborn into the world – soft and wriggling, mewling adorably…innocent. that innocence was you, and still is you. that sweet, pure innocence was sullied by rotten, stinking filth. the first handful of dirt thrown onto a gleaming c*sket feels profane, wrong. the soul shrieks at the sight, gasps in horror that someone would so deliberately dirty something so pristine. it wasn’t dirt thrown onto your pristine innocence, Beauty. it was worse. that a soul as beautiful as yours was profaned so horribly is a crime without measure, beyond any comprehension. grieve with me, please, that the world suffered such an offense – the loss of the joy that should have emanated from you all of your life to this point, reaching out to others and aiding them to be joyous, too. rejoice with me, please, that you still live, that hope is real, that you *DO* reach out to others and share what you have made of yourself: a woman of strength and courage, dedication and compassion. You may not see this, but I do. You teach. You mother. You comfort those in need. You are a living, breathing testament to the truth that hope *IS* real. for as much as the world needs joy, perhaps it needs hope more. Without it, none of us *could* reach the point of emanating joy radiantly. my goal in life is to increase the level of positives in the world. it’s a little bit fuzzy, this concept. but essentially "positives" can be seen to equal "warm fuzzies". it’s an extrapolation on "leave the world a better place", ya know? (sorry – blue switched in a bit ago.) being able to smile at someone, and have that smile brighten their day lessens the negatives in the world and increases the positives, you know? because there are so many wounded souls in the world, people *need* to know that it’s *not* foolish to have hope. for every wounded soul that heals, that’s one more person able to increase the joy-quotient in the world, you see? so helping one person reach the point of being a joyous presence in the world is worth all of the joy-plusses that *that* person will be able to achieve. see the math? see, i sing, and bring a sense of wonder to the people who hear me – most of the time. ok, sometimes. ;) some ppl just want me to sh*t up. :) and sometimes i’m not on my game, as it were. but i work at expressing joy when i sing, so others can feel it with me. i work at singing from the solid foundation of hope i feel inside of me, so that others might be able to hear me and say "the world just can’t be that bad a place if someone can sing like that" <sheesh, what an ego… . and i work with people, to whatever extent i’m able, trying to help them however i can. in real life, i’m a fat, unemployed woman with a *LOT* of mental problems and not a lot of prospects for a career or whatever. but that’s only what some people might see. in truth, I’m right on track with my life-goals. … it wasn’t your fault, beauty. you did nothing wrong. everything that happened after that was a reaction to the original badstuff. forgive yourself for being human. that’s not your fault, either. ;) jt (several of us, most notably Socrates and blue) Again. Completely enveloped in it. Swamped. I can’t take the up and down anymore – I say I can’t but I know I have to, and that’s even worse. Each down makes me h*te myself more. I’ve never been so horrible – I’ve never been in so bad a spot – worse and worse and worse, even when lifted momentarily. I h*te myself worse than my own worst enemy. Okay, I know the standard answer: it’s safer to h*te myself. So? Does that make me feel any better? It just makes me feel more stupid, to even *know* better and to succumb. Just makes me feel morally lazy for allowing myself to be overcome. Ick. Can’t write anymore because where it goes from here is sewer-worthy. Beauty.
Response:
::sings:: she’s come undone…she climbed a mountain that was much too high…and when she found out she couldn’t fly…it was too laaayaayaaayeeyaayeeyate! wait – i thought we agreed you were a donkey?? *scratches head in confusion* :) jt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – – well – okay – I sweat like a horse at the slightest provocation. So what does that tell you about me, except that - hmmm – maybe I prefer and am closer kin to the noble horse than the sniffy lady???? Oh I am in rare form today. As in – underdone. Beauty. and don’t sweat it, beauts. i know ya l*ve me. :) jt
Response:
Thanks. No really. that’s always been one of my favorite, favorite ooky-identification songs, but I never even listened to the words except for "she’s come undone" And – there was a poem I wrote when I was 13 or so about a Princess Dove, other poems about birds – flying too high (slightly, only slightly different) – Thank you. Nope. Not tonight a donkey. A bird. Good night, tucking head under downy wing – at some point anyway – But wow – where word associations do get us, eh? Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ::sings:: she’s come undone…she climbed a mountain that was much too high…and when she found out she couldn’t fly…it was too laaayaayaaayeeyaayeeyate! wait – i thought we agreed you were a donkey?? *scratches head in confusion* :) jt – well – okay – I sweat like a horse at the slightest provocation. So what does that tell you about me, except that - hmmm – maybe I prefer and am closer kin to the noble horse than the sniffy lady???? Oh I am in rare form today. As in – underdone. Beauty. and don’t sweat it, beauts. i know ya l*ve me. :) jt
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