thanks
Question:
Especially thanks to Pavel with all his questions and those of you with answers. I have followed it all as best as I could, learned some and am totally bewildered by other info. well, not your fault. Last week( or before?) I managed to get out and look at the resumed elite ones, and also saw the activa mask. I was really shocked by the prices of the resmed though. In about an hour I am on my way to check out the Remstar and c-flex deals. Hopefully I will decide soon as to what I will get. But all the conversations really made me shy away from the autopap. I keep seeing in the comments that one can have OA’ or partial ones when on those, and I have not seen anyone saying a definite "No way". Maybe I should just stay with what works. Also, convenience aside, isn’t a ‘build-in" humidifier more prone to causing damage to the unit then a separate one? what if the unit falls in such a way the water leaks towards the unit? I did not get a real answer from the tech about any protection for this, and I am not technical enough to see those things. anyway, thanks to all of you for your time, Paula
Response:
On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 19:08:58 GMT, paula <nom…@spam.net> wrote: >Especially thanks to Pavel with all his questions and those of you with answers. >I have followed it all as best as I could, learned some and am totally >bewildered by other info. well, not your fault. >Last week( or before?) I managed to get out and look at the resumed elite ones, >and also saw the activa mask. I was really shocked by the prices of the resmed >though.
There are several things that afect pricing – development and tooling cost recovery (considerable) – cost of sales (large) – materials and production (small) – unique selling points – new product or concept commanding higher price – competition – distress sale (this type of equipment is something people have to buy) – what they can get away with >In about an hour I am on my way to check out the Remstar and c-flex deals. >Hopefully I will decide soon as to what I will get. But all the conversations >really made me shy away from the autopap. I keep seeing in the comments that one >can have OA’ or partial ones when on those, and I have not seen anyone saying a >definite "No way". Maybe I should just stay with what works.
Never mind about all the science behind this. The important points are – does the equipment treat the condition properly and deal with the symptoms? – is it going to do anything negative or dangerous to the patient? – is the patient going to tolerate using it? – will the above continue to happen for a reasonable period of time? The fundamental arguments in favour of autotitration are that it is tolerated by more patients and compatibility improved; adaptation to patient requirements over time. These are achieved by keeping the pressure low except when actually needed, accurately determining when an increase is needed, by how much and for how long. As a result, the argument runs that compatibility is improved. The published research papers suggest that efficacy of treatment is not worse and may be better than continuous pressure therapy. There are always going to be a minority of patients for whom autotitration won’t work suitably because they have specific aspects to their condition which are not detected or treated by it. However, to put this into context, there are a large number of people who don’t tolerate PAP treatment at all, so if aPAP improves that it is worth considering. >Also, convenience aside, isn’t a ‘build-in" humidifier more prone to causing >damage to the unit then a separate one? what if the unit falls in such a way the >water leaks towards the unit? I did not get a real answer from the tech about >any protection for this, and I am not technical enough to see those things.
I can only describe how the one on the Resmed Spirit works. Basically there is a heater unit that fits onto the front of the machine and then the water chamber locates onto that. The water chamber is in four dismantlable parts – a top and a bottom shell, a flexible seal and an air deflector which fits inside. This is removed as an assembly from the main unit and can be taken apart for cleaning in the dishwasher. In daily use, water is put into this chamber up to a mark and it is located onto the base unit where it clips into place. In the bottom of the chamber there is a metal plate and this comes into contact with or close to a similar metal plate in the base unit which is heated with an element (not very hot, I should add). A thermostat controls the temperature of the water and in effect the rate of evaporation into the air stream passing through the top part of the chamber. In normal use there should be no leakage at all, and even if there were it would be where the two halves of the water chamber join or at the bottom where the plate fits. This area is all sealed on the base part so the water would simply run down at the side. The only way to get water back into the main flow generator would be to tip the whole thing on it’s side or upside down and backwards at the same time. Inside the flow generator, the blower assembly is encased so that even if water did get in from the humidifier, it can’t reach the electronics. >anyway, thanks to all of you for your time, Paula
.andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
Response:
SNIP – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >In about an hour I am on my way to check out the Remstar and c-flex deals. > >Hopefully I will decide soon as to what I will get. But all the conversations > >really made me shy away from the autopap. I keep seeing in the comments that one > >can have OA’ or partial ones when on those, and I have not seen anyone saying a > >definite "No way". Maybe I should just stay with what works. > Never mind about all the science behind this. The important points > are > – does the equipment treat the condition properly and deal with the > symptoms? > – is it going to do anything negative or dangerous to the patient? > – is the patient going to tolerate using it? > – will the above continue to happen for a reasonable period of time? > The fundamental arguments in favour of autotitration are that it is > tolerated by more patients and compatibility improved; adaptation to > patient requirements over time. These are achieved by keeping the > pressure low except when actually needed, accurately determining when > an increase is needed, by how much and for how long. > As a result, the argument runs that compatibility is improved. The > published research papers suggest that efficacy of treatment is not > worse and may be better than continuous pressure therapy. > There are always going to be a minority of patients for whom > autotitration won’t work suitably because they have specific aspects > to their condition which are not detected or treated by it. > However, to put this into context, there are a large number of people > who don’t tolerate PAP treatment at all, so if aPAP improves that it > is worth considering.
I was actually Prescribed an APAP, So don’t dismiss them out of hand. I did not read where you are at with your Diagnosis, but I think you have not yet been titrated ? My titration found that thru the night, the required pressure frequently changed, depending on several factors, such as position and sleep stages. The tech at titration could not find a single pressure that was effective thru the night, and as CA was not a problem, The initial recommendation was for a 5-15cm pressure by my sleep doc , but on review after 3 months, it was been changed to 8-20cm. Over the course of several weeks, the data collected indicates that this is right for me. If I have a cold, then the required pressure cranks up a bit, if I have a few extra glasses (bottles) of Red then the required pressure is high as well. Last week I got a printout of the last 7 months worth of data and found that in this time, I had actually spent a few days where the peek pressure required was 20cm, and at least a few days a month it goes over 15. If I had been prescribed a CPAP, at even 12cm It would have been ineffective for at least 20 days out of the last 7 months. If APAP is recommended, it is for a reason, and you may need to use it for a year or so to see the data. I would say don’t dismiss the need for APAP out of hand, until you have been titrated and talked to your sleep doc on the recommendation. Every one is different and has differing requirements. Bob in Aus
Response:
Bob wrote: > I was actually Prescribed an APAP, So don’t dismiss them out of hand. > I did not read where you are at with your Diagnosis, but I think you have > not yet been titrated ?
Bob, I am assuming you actually responded to me. I have been on CPAP for well over 2 years and although any recognition of it working has been a very long time in the making, that has finally arrived. About 1 year after my titration ( 2 nights) I had lost 45 lb so got another night. Nothing had changed and pressure came up the same. I myself have dropped my pressure from 10 to 9 due to my Crohn’s disease thinking maybe all the air had some influence on the crohn’s ( like flatulence etc.) but I immediately became more tired. I am not sure but believe I only have OSA. Even the first time I was extremely "regular’ in those; Not only an average but guaranteed every hour I had 35 -37 events, all lasting between 35 and 37 seconds ( weird isn’t it; same numbers but it was double checked ). So I am sure for the apnea a plain CPAP is fine for me. i am just not convinced that the swallowed air is not influencing my crohn’s and if lower pressure would help that … well ,that is why I am still undecided. But also still worried that lower pressure overall might mean having apnea’s, even a few and getting more tired again. Thanks for helping.
Response:
For all the advice and support. Oh wait… I didn’t get any.
Response:
In article <04udnbPpAM6OLwPcRVn…@comcast.com>, "PolarBear" <sfpolarb…@comcast.net> wrote: > Oh wait… I didn’t get any.
It helps if you ask. — Nobody knows Particle Man.
Response:
Howard Shubs <how…@shubs.net> wrote in news:howard-477BAC.09182720112004 @news.newsguy.com: > In article <04udnbPpAM6OLwPcRVn…@comcast.com>, > "PolarBear" <sfpolarb…@comcast.net> wrote: >> Oh wait… I didn’t get any. > It helps if you ask.
It might be a missed target on the post. All of his other posts have been in a dit support newsgroup Gandalf Parker
Response:
Gandalf Parker <gand…@most.of.my.favorite.sites> wrote in news:Xns95A7449E471BFgandalfparker@208.201.224.154: > Howard Shubs <how…@shubs.net> wrote in > news:howard-477BAC.09182720112004 @news.newsguy.com: >> In article <04udnbPpAM6OLwPcRVn…@comcast.com>, >> "PolarBear" <sfpolarb…@comcast.net> wrote: >>> Oh wait… I didn’t get any. >> It helps if you ask. > It might be a missed target on the post. All of his other posts have > been in a dit support newsgroup
Sorry that was support to be diet. alt.support.diet.low-carb to be exact Gandalf Parker
Response:
On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 09:18:27 -0500, Howard Shubs wrote: >"PolarBear" wrote: >> Oh wait… I didn’t get any. >It helps if you ask.
I wonder if PolarBear is looking for one of those support groups for people who think that other people can figure out what they’re thinking about. <wink>
Response:
In article <Xns95A744F965B32gandalfpar…@208.201.224.154>, Gandalf Parker <gand…@most.of.my.favorite.sites> wrote: > Gandalf Parker <gand…@most.of.my.favorite.sites> wrote in > news:Xns95A7449E471BFgandalfparker@208.201.224.154: > > It might be a missed target on the post. All of his other posts have > > been in a dit support newsgroup > Sorry that was support to be diet. > alt.support.diet.low-carb to be exact
Just out of curiousity, how did you determine where his previous posts were? Google groups? — Nobody knows Particle Man.
Response:
"Charlie Perrin" <c.l.perrin@SPAMBOTS_DIEatt.net> wrote in message
news:o3rup0hbnjipi9tl1g5kv0msbb1jghkbht@4ax.com… > On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 09:18:27 -0500, Howard Shubs wrote: >>"PolarBear" wrote: >>> Oh wait… I didn’t get any. >>It helps if you ask. > I wonder if PolarBear is looking for one of those support groups for > people who think that other people can figure out what they’re > thinking about. <wink>
Doya think???? 
Response:
Howard Shubs <how…@shubs.net> wrote in news:howard-B58E14.11192120112004 @news.newsguy.com: > In article <Xns95A744F965B32gandalfpar…@208.201.224.154>, > Gandalf Parker <gand…@most.of.my.favorite.sites> wrote: >> Gandalf Parker <gand…@most.of.my.favorite.sites> wrote in >> news:Xns95A7449E471BFgandalfparker@208.201.224.154: >> > It might be a missed target on the post. All of his other posts have >> > been in a dit support newsgroup >> Sorry that was support to be diet. >> alt.support.diet.low-carb to be exact > Just out of curiousity, how did you determine where his previous posts > were? Google groups?
Yes, based on his given email handle. One of the most minor of track-downs. I do much more extensive ones for ISPs on crackers and trolls and such. Gandalf Parker
Response:
You guys aren’t being very nice to PolarBear. Surely someone out there can be helpful. He DID ask for help as I see it and here is his original post (below) from Nov. 18, 2004, unless I am misreading these posts. ————————————- Need sleep by "Bear" <polarbea…@earthlink.net> Nov 18, 2004 at 10:34 PM Hi everyone. I’ve been using a cpap for quite a few years now but I’m not sleeping through the night. I honestly can’t tell you how long this has been going on. I was so happy to sleep at all when I got the cpap that I don’t know if at first I did or didn’t sleep all night. I wake up every hour to an hour and half and fall back to sleep in about ten minutes. I’m feeling really tired during the day. I do use Trazadone to sleep and sometimes it works and sometimes not. Anyone have this experience or any insioght into it? TIA John
Response:
In article <e0aad9dbc63f0790303b5523bd5f4…@localhost.talkaboutsupport.com>, "CPAPHATER" <cpapha…@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote: > Anyone have this experience or any insioght into it?
Clearly, the answer is "no". — Nobody knows Particle Man.
Response:
On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 17:02:32 -0500, CPAPHATER wrote: >You guys aren’t being very nice to PolarBear. Surely someone out there >can be helpful. He DID ask for help as I see it and here is his original >post (below) from Nov. 18, 2004, unless I am misreading these posts.
Somehow, the original message disappeared between the Polar Bear and my computer. On the other hand, I’ve seen USENET messages that mysteriously floated around for as long as TWO WEEKS and reappeared. I found that out when I chided another reader for posting "really old news" but she was mystified at the two-week-old message suddenly appearing. I looked at the headers and it had gone from AOL to AT&T WorldNet through a couple of countries that used to be on the Soviet side of the Iron Curtain. Go figure. >by "Bear" Nov 18, 2004 at 10:34 PM >Hi everyone. I’ve been using a cpap for quite a few years now but I’m not >sleeping through the night. >I wake up every hour to an hour and half and fall back to sleep in about >ten minutes. I’m feeling really tired during the day. >Anyone have this experience or any insioght into it?
It sounds just like I was before I became a Hoover Head. Maybe it’s retitration time for the Polar Bear… either that or hibernation time. <wink>
Response:
John, I’d also like to say thanks for the kind response to my wacko power surge post. Not too many people would have the patience or the good grace to send a nice reply. Thanks again. Marg
Response:
Marg wrote: > Not too many people would have the patience or the > good grace to send a nice reply. Thanks again.
Ha! Marg, the one thing you have going for you here is that most of us know what it means to be ‘out of it’ due to a sleep disorder. Perhaps not as ‘interesting’ (look up challenging in your politically correct to real world dictionary) as you face. But hey! An overwhelming number of us finally reach our destinations (by car or foot) only to wonder why we came in the first place. So, no need to apologize. Think of it as free entertainment for everyone. We’ve all been there. Regards, =jbf= John B. Fisher
