Migraine – Child

Question:

My son suffers from migraine headaches. He takes medicine every day to prevent one coming on.  When he has a headache coming on he lay down with an ice pack on his head. And he covers up his body with a blanket where it is quiet.  He can fall asleep real fast. This helps the best so far. mom

Suggest you get to do Buteyko Breathing exercises.  You can download the steps involved from http://www.nqnet.com/buteyko/buteyko-kids.html [it is free] Have him do the training when he does not have a headache, and the gentle [reduced depth] breathing immediately he starts to feel any warning of a coming headache. This method is best known for asthma, but also works dramatically for a large percentage of migraine. All the best, James Hooper Buteyko Instructor

Response:

my child suffers from migriane headaches.  He is taking Propranolol everyday to prevent a headache.  Does anyone know much about the side effects of the med. Does migraines ever just go away after they go thru puberty?  I am praying for that. mom

Can’t help you with the Propranolol.  Puberty made very little difference to me.  What seemed to change the severity was taking the pill (made it worse) and having babies (improved things a little).  There has been discussion on this topic before and it seems that it depends on the person.   Suzie Melbourne, Australia There are three crowns: the crown of Torah, the crown of priesthood and the crown of royalty; but the crown of a good name exceeds them all. Pirke Avot 4:19.

Response:

my child suffers from migriane headaches.  He is taking Propranolol everyday to prevent a headache.  Does anyone know much about the side effects of the med. Does migraines ever just go away after they go thru puberty?  I am praying for that.

My migraines tend to cycle around.  They will be bad ( 4 per month) for 7-11 months and then back to 1 or so per month for 2-4 years.  Actually, I am on month 27 of bad (waaah).  The time before this that they were bad was at the end of my last pregnancy.  After I had my daughter, they put me on this and my migraines went down (but not away until we got the dose right).  In my case, I stayed on it for about 7 more months and then went off.  The migraines stayed away for 3 years (even with severe sinus problems).  Now when they got bad this last time, this did not help (even messing with doses). The only side effect I had was an apparent loss of energy.  But of course, I was postpartum (with a 4 year old with migraines and a husband who was a full-time student besides the new baby.  Oh and I worked full-time. Maybe the energy problem was something else . As for out growing them, many people do.  My father and both my brothers did.  I can remember my dad having something like 3 headaches the whole time I was growing up.  My brothers still occasionally have them. I seem to remember that it is more likely for boys to outgrow them than girls.  My son’s are better now than when he was 4 (he is almost 10). I am always careful to say "you may not always have these".  He sees the converse of that in me all the time .  I have also had him talk with my brothers about their experiences. Good luck. Georgia

Response:

my child suffers from migriane headaches.  He is taking Propranolol everyday to prevent a headache.  Does anyone know much about the side effects of the med. Does migraines ever just go away after they go thru puberty?  I am praying for that. mom

Response:

My son suffers from migraine headaches. He takes medicine every day to prevent one coming on.  When he has a headache coming on he lay down with an ice pack on his head. And he covers up his body with a blanket where it is quiet.  He can fall asleep real fast. This helps the best so far. mom

Response:

My son had migraines (he is now 13) I took him to be checked out by a ped neuro – I would suggest that you do this just to be certain that it is not something else.  The first drug they tried my son on was periactin (it’s an antihistimine) and it worked GREAT.  Now he doesn’t have to take it every day.  It is a relatively safe drug (are there any totally safe drugs?).  Migraines run strong in my family as all 6 of my sisters and their kids have these.  Periactin has worked wonders for most all of the young children.   As much as I hated to put my son on any drug the difference it made in his life was worth it.

My son also took periactin for 14 months (age 4 – 5).  He was having 3-4 per week at that point.  The only ones that didn’t go away were the night time ones (truly bizarre things).  Those got worse (he ended up in the hospital after one of them).  His night time ones were unusual, they resembled night terrors with pain.  He didn’t appear to know we were there, would scream and cry for us, but was able to do things like grab a bucket to throw up in.  Very scary things.  The one he got on periactin that put him in the hospital lasted 7 hours.  We really weren’t sure the periactin made it worse but the neurologist did have us take him off it (periactin does effect sleep.  The belief was that his night time ones were a combination of sleep disorder and migraine so it seemed that anything that effected his sleep was bad).  After we took him off it, he got between 1-2 a month (a rate that has stayed the same for almost 5 years with a little variance up to 3-4 per month about 1 1/2 years ago and then back down after 4 months and a new pair of glasses).  The vast majority of those were "normal" migraines but he did have 4 night times ones between 5 1/2 and 8.  At 8, he was given anti-derpessants (for another problem).   We are working on 2 years without those (yeah!). I would have to say that if there is no relationship with his migraines and sleep disorders (which is somewhat unusual but not unheard of) then periactin is something to try. Georgia

Response:

My son had migraines (he is now 13) I took him to be checked out by a ped neuro – I would suggest that you do this just to be certain that it is not something else.  The first drug they tried my son on was periactin (it’s an antihistimine) and it worked GREAT.  Now he doesn’t have to take it every day.  It is a relatively safe drug (are there any totally safe drugs?).  Migraines run strong in my family as all 6 of my sisters and their kids have these.  Periactin has worked wonders for most all of the young children.   As much as I hated to put my son on any drug the difference it made in his life was worth it.   Charlotte

Response:

Hi, I’ve got a 6 years old kid with migraine. Is anyone having any experience with kids and migraine and has anyone found an alternative way of handling this headache? thanks, Steen Lindholm

I am very sorry that your child has migraines. I have had migraines since I was about 4, this is as far back I can remember having them. I remember being very confused as to why I was getting this pain. What had I done to deserve this? What sort of punishment was it? Why cant anyone make it stop? I became often hystericalto the point where the pain became so intense that I would throw up and then usualy pass out. I think the best advice for you is to find a doctor that understans migraines. Many dont, as most of the people on this group will tell you, and try to push drugs at you untill you dont know if you are comming or going. I think, especially with childeren, you dont want to use any drugs that may effect their developement.Many of the drugs on the market today will adversely effect the developement and function of kidneys and liver etc. Next, something like a diary that can be kept by either yourself or the child so that you can work out the triggers for the onset of their migraine. This will help you to avoid these triggers in future and possibly lower the frequency or intensity of pain. Foods, smells, noise are just a few of the factors that may bring the onset of migraine. When I was small it was easy for me to become overexcited when I had a migraine. This made the pain much worse in the long run. It was good for me to have a bath and then go to bed, my mother would sing to me and rub my back till I fell asleep. Its funny thinking back on it, some of the best times I remember, the times i felt i was realy loved, were when I was in a lot of pain. Now that I am older I can see that the best thing to do with a migraine is to know when one is approaching, that is to understand the ‘aura’, to stay calm and just go rest somewhere. This can be a problem at school where ‘time out’ during school time is not usualy permitted. Then again the primary school that I went to insisted that we were to have fluride mouthwashes every month. When I tld them that this gave me a headache noone would listen. As a parent you have to listen to what your child tells you about these types of triggers and lay down the law to the school. ‘My child needs time to rest if S/he complains of migraines. My child will not use cherry flavoured fluride mouthwash.’ Basically you have to watch what your child does, not all migraines have triggers, and some may be hard to spot. Dont dope your kid up. I have used almost all the medication on the market, none of which has helped, much has made the pain worse. To this day I still use only asprin (and a little codine) to help with the pain while I either relax in a dark room or keep working until I can take a break. Hope this helps, — Nick. "’You are Here’…Ahuh, ahuh. Being here is a lot like being lost Arthur."                           -The Tick, Tick vs Brainchild.

Response:

Hi, I’ve got a 6 years old kid with migraine. Is anyone having any experience with kids and migraine and has anyone found an alternative way of handling this headache? thanks, Steen Lindholm

Response:

STOP THE SHIT…..

Question:

I agree that the internet fall outside the jurisdiction of the governments, but that has never stopped them before and there is something they can do to control and it would do nothing but drive the cost up. docd @ bigfoot. com On Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:00:01 -0400, eveb <ebloo…@nospam.erols.com> wrote: >On the whole govt. issue, keep in mind that the Internet falls outside >the jurisdiction of most countries’ governments, as much as they try to >claim otherwise.

– sig line — remove the remove to reply by email

Response:

I wonder what they would do if we all sent them bills, for our proofreading and archiving.  If they didn’t pay, we could go to a collection agency, or one of those "I’ll make them pay!" late night lawyers, who work on contingency. Who knows, maybe if we compare notes we could put together class action suits to shut down these people, should they choose not to pay their proofreading bill.  We could use the proceeds for an ass-d convention in some place nice. More-than half seriously, Colin c…@atcon.com (Note: non-personal email sent to this address will be archived and analysed at a fee of $1/byte, including headers.  Sending material to this address constitutes acceptance of these terms.  Extra charges apply if research is required to find your billing address.)

Response:

It would never stand up in court and it has been tried. docd @ bigfoot. com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:11:05 -0300, c…@atcon.com (Colin Pye) wrote: >I wonder what they would do if we all sent them bills, for our >proofreading and archiving.  If they didn’t pay, we could go to a >collection agency, or one of those "I’ll make them pay!" late night >lawyers, who work on contingency. >Who knows, maybe if we compare notes we could put together class action >suits to shut down these people, should they choose not to pay their >proofreading bill.  We could use the proceeds for an ass-d convention in >some place nice. >More-than half seriously, >Colin >c…@atcon.com >(Note: non-personal email sent to this address will be archived and >analysed at a fee of $1/byte, including headers.  Sending material to >this address constitutes acceptance of these terms.  Extra charges apply >if research is required to find your billing address.)

– sig line — remove the remove to reply by email

Response:

X-From_: MAILER-DAE…@zip.com.au  Wed Apr 22 17:19:43 1998 Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:19:43 +1000 From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAE…@zip.com.au> To: <poun…@zip.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Returned mail: Service unavailable Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) The original message was received at Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:19:35 +1000 from blazer47.zip.com.au [203.62.150.111]    —– The following addresses had permanent fatal errors —– <deb…@ntr.net>    —– Transcript of session follows —– … while talking to ntr.net.: >>> MAIL From:<poun…@zip.com.au> SIZE=1152

<<< 550 Access denied 554 <deb…@ntr.net>… Service unavailable Reporting-MTA: dns; mail.zip.com.au Received-From-MTA: DNS; blazer47.zip.com.au Arrival-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:19:35 +1000 Final-Recipient: RFC822; deb…@ntr.net Action: failed Status: 5.0.0 Remote-MTA: DNS; ntr.net Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 Access denied Last-Attempt-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:19:43 +1000 Return-Path: <poun…@zip.com.au> Received: from blazer47.zip.com.au (blazer47.zip.com.au [203.62.150.111])    by mail.zip.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA15208    for <deb…@ntr.net>; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:19:35 +1000 Message-Id: <199804220719.RAA15208@mail.zip.com.au> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:19:19 +1000 From: poun…@zip.com.au (Pounder) To: "Mrs. Duck" <deb…@ntr.net> Subject: Re: STOP THE SHIT….. References: <6haov9$41j6@news2.ntr.net> Dear Mrs Duck I have watched you flourish and heal in this group and have delighted in your wellbeing and confidence, have felt proud of the way in which you have shared your experience and past discomfort. Don’t quit because of spammers. I like your cranky ways and honesty. And I like the diversity of the group. You and Doug and the Growling Bear, Lauren Eno, the Lady in Seattle, they’re all there after a muderous night of congestion, mask leaks or whatever. So from down under, get filter wise, and best to ya. N. —  ——————Nicholas Pounder Bookseller—————— ——346 New South Head Road Double Bay Sydney NSW 2028—— ——Ph + 61 2 9 328 7410 –AUSTRALIA—Fax +61 2 9 328 7421—- ——————–Member: ILAB/ANZAAB———————- ——————–Commonwealth Valuer———————- "Its not the order in which books were written that is important, rather the order in which we read them" – Jorge Luis Borges —  ——————Nicholas Pounder Bookseller—————— ——346 New South Head Road Double Bay Sydney NSW 2028—— ——Ph + 61 2 9 328 7410 –AUSTRALIA—Fax +61 2 9 328 7421—- ——————–Member: ILAB/ANZAAB———————- ——————–Commonwealth Valuer———————- "Its not the order in which books were written that is important, rather the order in which we read them" – Jorge Luis Borges

Response:

hey everyone! I saw that hlh posted about the anti-spammers on strike, so I won’t go there.  You may want to complain to YOUR isp if you are getting too much spam through your isp’s servers.  They will be able to "cancel" quite a bit of spam, if they know that their customers have a problem with it. On the whole govt. issue, keep in mind that the Internet falls outside the jurisdiction of most countries’ governments, as much as they try to claim otherwise. eve Dan wrote: > I agree with most you have said but, (you knew there would be one didn’t you), don’t get the government involved.  I would rather have spammers even more of them than the government here.  Just think what you would have then.  You would have to have a lawyer > read it first before you post just to protect yourself.  Plus you would most likely see more post from the government than you see spam. > docd > d…@bigfoot.com > Howard Lee Harkness wrote: > <sniped> > >  You should complain directly to your ISP, and to you Congress-Critter (or > > equivalent, for those of you not in the USA).

– ******************** Eve Bloomer, Systems Administrator John J. Kirlin, Inc. ******************** Anti-Spam measures in effect.  Please remove "nospam." from my email address to reply.

Response:

Dear Mrs.Duck, I’d say I have to agree on one thing, its really pathetic. I get it in my mailbox every day and it makes me agressive as well. Where they get to these groups or our e-mail adresses…. nobody knows. And why do they still believe we would purchase anything by recieving irritating spam? If we want porn or money we’d search for it on a searcher! Like some time ago something on here like: ‘Cant sleep? Well: Make money fast blabla’ It pissed me off till no end becose I havnt had a decent sleep myself for 13 years now thanks to Night Terrors. I shut down the computer for half an hour but then realised I wouldnt give in and I read on again. Becose to give up on a great newsgroup like this becose of some spammers? Come on! Thats giving in to them! So to everyone: Please keep on keeping on, people like us need people to talk to. However: Technologie moves on as well, I guess one day soon they will find someone to this spam. Yours truly, MiRR0RMaN^tFC Night Terrors WorldWide: http://www.xs4all.nl/~dramah/night-terrors – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I Personally will not be a part of this newsgroup if the PORNO SHIT > continues. > connect with my cpap pals. > the only one who feels this way.  It’s so pathetic.  Where are their > parents…. to begin with?  How trashy.  How stupid.  How useless.

Response:

I agree with most you have said but, (you knew there would be one didn’t you), don’t get the government involved.  I would rather have spammers even more of them than the government here.  Just think what you would have then.  You would have to have a lawyer read it first before you post just to protect yourself.  Plus you would most likely see more post from the government than you see spam. docd d…@bigfoot.com Howard Lee Harkness wrote:

<sniped> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->  You should complain directly to your ISP, and to you Congress-Critter (or > equivalent, for those of you not in the USA).

Response:

"Mrs. Duck" <deb…@ntr.net> wrote: >I Personally will not be a part of this newsgroup if the PORNO SHIT >continues.

The ENTIRE Internet is currently under attack by a variety of lowlifes.  The folks who regularly de-spam and report same are ‘on strike’ this month, in order to make it a little more obvious just how much of an effect they have on the quality of Usenet. The regular posters on this group have essentially no control over the pornspam, and the spammers don’t read the group anyway — e.g., they aren’t listening to your complaint.  You should complain directly to your ISP, and to you Congress-Critter (or equivalent, for those of you not in the USA). About the best you can do under the present circumstances is use a newreader which will support filtering or ‘killfiling’.  I use Agent, which has pretty good filtering support. For details on how to take a more active role in fighting spam, check out the newsgroups news.admin.net-abuse.email and news.admin.net-abuse.usenet.  Be warned that these are currently VERY high traffic (700+ posts/day) groups, and are also subject to various attempts to spam and cancel by people deliberately trying to spread dis-information.  If you choose to lurk there, you would do well to do some heavy filtering. I’ve found that killfiling any author who uses any obscenity or common scatological term in a post has reduced my downloaded traffic on that group to less than 300/day, and greatly increased the percentage of useful, informative posts.  Note that by that rule, your post would not have made it through the filters I use on the net-abuse groups. — hlh_NOS…@mailexcite.com is a valid address.  It is NOT munged. DO NOT SEND UNSOLICITED BULK MAIL TO THIS ADDRESS

Response:

Sorry to tell you but there is not a whole lot you can do about it.  You can complain to their providers or Hosting service but good luck in finding their provider.  Hosting service is a better chance in finding but still may not do any good.  Filters on you newsreader is the best and easyest way to deal with it but is not fool proof.  These things happen is cycles and will fade away in a bit and then it will come back.  You will be hard press to find any safe havens on the internet and if you do you may not have a lot to look at except Disney. So in closing just try to bear with it till it fades away and get a good newsreader and set up some filters then keep you fingers crossed. Good luck Docd d…@bigfoot.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Mrs. Duck wrote: > I Personally will not be a part of this newsgroup if the PORNO SHIT > continues. > I cannot tolerate it. > It’s CHILDISH.  and about CHILDREN, and offends me tremendously. > If it continues in this newsgroup, I will sadly bough out and no longer > connect with my cpap pals. > I have no patience when it comes to porno, especially when it’s thrown in my > face. > Is there anything we can do, as mature adults, to get it off our ng.  HELP. > I can’t imagine that I am > the only one who feels this way.  It’s so pathetic.  Where are their > parents….did they every have any > to begin with?  How trashy.  How stupid.  How useless.

Response:

I forgot in my last post to mention that most of the Porno seems to be coming from just a couple or three individuals at the most. Docd d…@bigfoot.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Mrs. Duck wrote: > I Personally will not be a part of this newsgroup if the PORNO SHIT > continues. > I cannot tolerate it. > It’s CHILDISH.  and about CHILDREN, and offends me tremendously. > If it continues in this newsgroup, I will sadly bough out and no longer > connect with my cpap pals. > I have no patience when it comes to porno, especially when it’s thrown in my > face. > Is there anything we can do, as mature adults, to get it off our ng.  HELP. > I can’t imagine that I am > the only one who feels this way.  It’s so pathetic.  Where are their > parents….did they every have any > to begin with?  How trashy.  How stupid.  How useless.

Response:

In article <6haov9$4…@news2.ntr.net>, "Mrs. Duck" <deb…@ntr.net> wrote: > I Personally will not be a part of this newsgroup if the PORNO SHIT > continues. > (SNIP)

Is there anything we can do, as mature adults, to get it off our ng.  HELP. > I can’t imagine that I am > the only one who feels this way.  It’s so pathetic.  Where are their > parents….did they every have any > to begin with?  How trashy.  How stupid.  How useless. Jerry Keller writes:

I dont know which news reader you use, but if you use MT-NEWSWATCHER you will find that it has excellent filtering abilities. You can tell it word for word what you want filtered and it will do it for you. I added nine new filters to this newsgroup this morning just to take care of the items you mentioned above. If you or anyone else needs more information on this, let me know. — Jerry M. Keller        jkel…@warwick.net

Response:

I Personally will not be a part of this newsgroup if the PORNO SHIT continues. I cannot tolerate it. It’s CHILDISH.  and about CHILDREN, and offends me tremendously. If it continues in this newsgroup, I will sadly bough out and no longer connect with my cpap pals. I have no patience when it comes to porno, especially when it’s thrown in my face. Is there anything we can do, as mature adults, to get it off our ng.  HELP. I can’t imagine that I am the only one who feels this way.  It’s so pathetic.  Where are their parents….did they every have any to begin with?  How trashy.  How stupid.  How useless.

Response:

Mrs. Duck, Unfortunately, this is happening on *every* newsgroup to which I am subscribed. These people mass-target putlic newsgroups with this crap, especially yhe "alt.*" groups since they are generally the most unmoderated and most numerous. What you can do is set up a killfile. If you don’t know, a killfile is a filter that searches subjects, newsgroups or authors and deletes anything that is in your killfile. If you’re newsreader supports killfiles, read up on how to make one. The easiest thing to do is create a "rule" that scans the subjects of all your articles, and if a word in the subject matches your killfile, the article gets deleted. For instance, you can create a rule in your newsreader so that if any subject in alt.support.sleep-disorders has the string "f*ck" (no *, of course), it will get deleted. This is about the best thing you can do. You can also delete authors with names like "nobody" or addresses like "nowhere.com", but sometimes that deletes legit users who don’t like spam and post under "false" accounts. Good luck.  Mrs. Duck (deb…@ntr.net) wrote: : I Personally will not be a part of this newsgroup if the PORNO SHIT : continues. : I cannot tolerate it. : It’s CHILDISH.  and about CHILDREN, and offends me tremendously. : If it continues in this newsgroup, I will sadly bough out and no longer : connect with my cpap pals. : I have no patience when it comes to porno, especially when it’s thrown in my : face. : Is there anything we can do, as mature adults, to get it off our ng.  HELP. : I can’t imagine that I am : the only one who feels this way.  It’s so pathetic.  Where are their : parents….did they every have any : to begin with?  How trashy.  How stupid.  How useless. — ~kcw [kevin c welch | pulmonary imaging center | uphs ] [phone: 349-8980]                              

Response:

Women and OSA

Question:

I was just minding my own business on Wed, 15 Apr 1998 03:53:10 GMT, when T Sconyers <scony…@ix.netcom.com> up and shattered my reverie: >I don’t think that OSA is rare in women, given that the current >stats say that 3-5% of all women may suffer from it. It is true >that more men are diagnosed than women, but not overwhelmingly so >(my awake group has about a 40-60 ratio of women to men, and I >think is is just a little over the norm). >Since at least one possible cause of osa is a slight abnormality >in the jaw, and/or stretchy ligaments, it could be that this is >simply an inherited trait in the family. >T Sconyers

I think you have a good point.  Furthermore, not to sound sexist, but I think that many physicians are more prone to label "depression" on most women who have symptoms of sleep apnea (which are very similar to depression).  Perhaps the "post-partum" depressions found in women have been generalized to other times of life as well. Doug

Response:

Doug Ruth wrote: > I think you have a good point.  Furthermore, not to sound sexist, but > I think that many physicians are more prone to label "depression" on > most women who have symptoms of sleep apnea (which are very similar to > depression).  Perhaps the "post-partum" depressions found in women > have been generalized to other times of life as well. > Doug

Ah, just one of the many stereotypes women must over-come in this patriarchal society… I’m bringing my boyfriend with me to my appointment tomorrow.  Maybe a male presence will help shed some light on things! rand(c)

Response:

One thing that surprised my doctor is that I don’t have a uvula.  I had my tonsils out in 1952, but it wasn’t usual to remove the uvula as well back then (so I’m told). My mother didn’t take DES. It wasn’t even "invented" until much later. Almost everyone in the U. S. took either the Salk or Sabin vaccines, or both.  If that were truly a causal factor, I would expect the incidence of OSA to be much higher than it is. And I hope they find a way to prevent apnea – we already have a way to treat it. Elise     The Somnolent Phantom wrote in message <35344C1D.2FBE9…@spamfree.net>…     x-no-archive: yes     Hi "T"     <snip>     Another theory that is being reinforced recently. I believe that is a     whole *package*, including a small lower jaw, oversized Uvula and     tongue, undersized trachea and weak soft tissue and supporting muscles     in the throat area. Many of us seem to have turbinate, septum and sinus     problems also.     I cant help but wonder what caused this genetic defect. I know DES     (like thalidomide) caused some horrible genetic defects…….And we are     all our mother’s children.     Our generation is also the product of the Salk and Sabin polio     vaccines. I just cant help but wonder if there is some causal     relationship there, also. Interesting, most of the folks with     Fibromyalgia and CFS are also the post war *baby boomers*, and a VERY     high percentage of the folks have MAJOR sleep disorders……Especially     a severe lack of Delta Wave sleep.     I can only hope that I live long enough to see the isolation of the     cause of and a CURE for for all sleep disorders to become a reality.     …….Sweet Dreams………..Bear……………..     >     > T Sconyers

Response:

T Sconyers (scony…@ix.netcom.com) wrote:

: I don’t think that OSA is rare in women, given that the current : stats say that 3-5% of all women may suffer from it. This is correct, for women aged 18 to 65 at least. Still, men are found with about 2x the occurrence as women. I think at least initially, the diagnosis was purely social. If you track the history of medicine, all inflictions happened to men, men were studied in medical schools, etc., etc. if you know what I mean. : Since at least one possible cause of osa is a slight abnormality : in the jaw, and/or stretchy ligaments, it could be that this is : simply an inherited trait in the family. Although the studies of genetic predisposition are few and far between, this is the current thinking: sleep apnea can be inherited — at least the cranio-facial anomalies, malformations, retrognathia, etc. that can be inherited. If you include slow metabolisms and predispositions to obesity, apnea can indeed be a genetic "disorder." You can think of it as the fabled "chicken or the egg" rule of thumb; nobody really knows whether obesity causes OSA or OSA leads to obesity of both or whatever… What is clear, however, is that obesity and OSA are linked fairly tightly. In fact, it’s a better predictor (much better) of OSA than gender. But, again, that may be another chicken and egg chase since men typically deposite fat differently from women. Kevin, 10 days from his apnea presentation at the AATS/LA conference in Chicago…..aaaarrrggggghhhh!  – ~kcw [kevin c welch | pulmonary imaging center | uphs ] [phone: 349-8980]                              

Response:

This message may seem strange but I am wondering if there is a connection between OSA and the use of the drug DES that women took in the early 50’s during pregnancy to deter miscarriages.  I am aware that DES causes a high incident of reproductive/breast cancer in female offspring.  My mother took this drug in 1953 and  my twin sister and I both have OSA, and a younger sister is also diagnosised with OSA and was told that for all the children in the family to be effected was unusual.   This is a stretch but if there are any female OSA patients who read this message and DES was used by your grandmother, mother, or yourself would you email me?

Response:

Hi Holly, Sorry, don’t know any women in my family who took DES.  I have severe sleep apnea and am overweight.

Response:

In article <35328ED4.12BD7…@csupomona.edu>,         "Random C." <klalder…@csupomona.edu> wrote: >dr…@inovion.com wrote: >> If I might just post a reply to the group, I believe that this may be a >> possibility, but then it might not explain OSA in the male population, whom it >> inflicts to a greater degree than the female population. >> Doug >Well, no.  But if OSA is much rarer in women and all of her female >siblings have OSA, that would seem a little strange, don’t you think?   >rand(c)

I don’t think that OSA is rare in women, given that the current stats say that 3-5% of all women may suffer from it. It is true that more men are diagnosed than women, but not overwhelmingly so (my awake group has about a 40-60 ratio of women to men, and I think is is just a little over the norm). Since at least one possible cause of osa is a slight abnormality in the jaw, and/or stretchy ligaments, it could be that this is simply an inherited trait in the family. T Sconyers

Response:

dr…@inovion.com wrote: > If I might just post a reply to the group, I believe that this may be a > possibility, but then it might not explain OSA in the male population, whom it > inflicts to a greater degree than the female population. > Doug

Well, no.  But if OSA is much rarer in women and all of her female siblings have OSA, that would seem a little strange, don’t you think?   rand(c)

Response:

In article <1998041123422800.TAA03…@ladder03.news.aol.com>,   t723ho…@aol.com (T723Holly) wrote: > This message may seem strange but I am wondering if there is a connection > between OSA and the use of the drug DES that women took in the early 50’s > during pregnancy to deter miscarriages.  I am aware that DES causes a high > incident of reproductive/breast cancer in female offspring.  My mother took > this drug in 1953 and  my twin sister and I both have OSA, and a younger sister > is also diagnosised with OSA and was told that for all the children in the > family to be effected was unusual.   This is a stretch but if there are any > female OSA patients who read this message and DES was used by your grandmother, > mother, or yourself would you email me?

If I might just post a reply to the group, I believe that this may be a possibility, but then it might not explain OSA in the male population, whom it inflicts to a greater degree than the female population. Doug —–== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==—– http://www.dejanews.com/   Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading

Response:

Rikki Lake's "Witch" show

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yet another media farce about what people believe.  Personally, the children presented had deeper psychological problems than anyone on that panel addressed.  All the children seemed affected by a severe family trauma and seemed more suited for a family therapist than for a poorly researched talk show.  Not to mention that describing religious philosophy comes hard enough for most adults let alone children.  Kudos to Lyra for doing a great job in representing Wicca or Witchcraft and doing her best to keep things on a more serious level.  Was also surprised by the number of Wiccans in the audience.  With every person a voice of understanding grows just that much more. Perhaps another talk show would do a better job one day?? I wouldn’t count on it.  The name of the game in talk shows is ratings, and what type of money they can bring in. I have watched many of the various shows (Donahue, Montel, Geraldo, Sally, Rikki, Oprah and even Springer) at one time or another because they had a topic that I was interested in. What is really weird is the fact every so often these talk shows have some really good shows. I still remember the shows that Jerry Springer did on people with sleep disorders and cancer patients.

I also found one thing wrong with Lyra’s description of the Rede she said that that it ment "do whatever you want, just don’t hurt anyone." I was taught that the Rede is not about doing whatever you want to do. It is about thinking an action out carefully, weighing the consequences and the right or wrongness of it, and fulfiling a need if that can be done without harming anyone.  I found her defination lacking. BB Alexan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

HEY!!!!–jerry is the bomb untill next time—–take care of yourself and each other

Response:

Yet another media farce about what people believe.  Personally, the children presented had deeper psychological problems than anyone on that panel addressed.  All the children seemed affected by a severe family trauma and seemed more suited for a family therapist than for a poorly researched talk show.  Not to mention that describing religious philosophy comes hard enough for most adults let alone children.  Kudos to Lyra for doing a great job in representing Wicca or Witchcraft and doing her best to keep things on a more serious level.  Was also surprised by the number of Wiccans in the audience.  With every person a voice of understanding grows just that much more. Perhaps another talk show would do a better job one day??

I wouldn’t count on it.  The name of the game in talk shows is ratings, and what type of money they can bring in. I have watched many of the various shows (Donahue, Montel, Geraldo, Sally, Rikki, Oprah and even Springer) at one time or another because they had a topic that I was interested in. What is really weird is the fact every so often these talk shows have some really good shows. I still remember the shows that Jerry Springer did on people with sleep disorders and cancer patients. When one is frightened of the truth . . . then it is never the whole truth that one has an inkling of.  – Ludwig Wittgenstein (1889-1951)     Austrian philosopher. Notebooks 1914-1916 (ed. by Anscombe, 1961), entry for 15 Oct. 1914. Tony Veca

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yet another media farce about what people believe.  Personally, the children presented had deeper psychological problems than anyone on that panel addressed.  All the children seemed affected by a severe family trauma and seemed more suited for a family therapist than for a poorly researched talk show.  Not to mention that describing religious philosophy comes hard enough for most adults let alone children.  Kudos to Lyra for doing a great job in representing Wicca or Witchcraft and doing her best to keep things on a more serious level.  Was also surprised by the number of Wiccans in the audience.  With every person a voice of understanding grows just that much more. Perhaps another talk show would do a better job one day?? I wouldn’t count on it.  The name of the game in talk shows is ratings, and what type of money they can bring in. I have watched many of the various shows (Donahue, Montel, Geraldo, Sally, Rikki, Oprah and even Springer) at one time or another because they had a topic that I was interested in. What is really weird is the fact every so often these talk shows have some really good shows. I still remember the shows that Jerry Springer did on people with sleep disorders and cancer patients.

I have to say that Donahue does not belong on that list.  He was very good about making sure that everyone’s point was made.   It was because of his show and how I knew that satanist don’t worship satan.   When ever that audience seemed biased in one direction, Donahue went out of his way to balance it out.

Response:

Yet another media farce about what people believe.  Personally, the children presented had deeper psychological problems than anyone on that panel addressed.  All the children seemed affected by a severe family trauma and seemed more suited for a family therapist than for a poorly researched talk show.  Not to mention that describing religious philosophy comes hard enough for most adults let alone children.  Kudos to Lyra for doing a great job in representing Wicca or Witchcraft and doing her best to keep things on a more serious level.  Was also surprised by the number of Wiccans in the audience.  With every person a voice of understanding grows just that much more. Perhaps another talk show would do a better job one day??

Response:

Unlikely.  Talk shows are about ratings, not truth. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yet another media farce about what people believe.  Personally, the children presented had deeper psychological problems than anyone on that panel addressed.  All the children seemed affected by a severe family trauma and seemed more suited for a family therapist than for a poorly researched talk show.  Not to mention that describing religious philosophy comes hard enough for most adults let alone children.  Kudos to Lyra for doing a great job in representing Wicca or Witchcraft and doing her best to keep things on a more serious level.  Was also surprised by the number of Wiccans in the audience.  With every person a voice of understanding grows just that much more. Perhaps another talk show would do a better job one day??

Response:

Perhaps another talk show would do a better job one day?

if i’m remembering this correctly….long, long, (LONG) ago there was a wicca/witchy thing on the old joan rivers talk show. laurie cabot was on and it was one of the 1st things to really inspire me. (sad but true…) also the old JANE talk show on lifetime had a show with wiccans, pagans, the whole lot. i loved sassy, love jane so i’m prolly biased but i was struck at the time how *peaceful* everyone onstage seemed and i thought to myself i want that.  still looking but i think i’m on the right path. wow i’m babbling tonight. ~moiRa ~**~…how heroes can be so delicately surrounded by ice…~**~ ~**~…that their eyes shine and promises are spoken…~**~ ~**~…in a glacial cloud of smoke~**~

Response:

(LONG) ago there was a wicca/witchy thing on the old joan rivers talk show. laurie cabot was on and it was one of the 1st things to really inspire me. (sad but true…) ~moiRa

why did you have to slam her, anyone that inspire should at the very least been remembered for that and the good they do, the only thing that is sad is, how soon we forget. Vampi proud to say I know her and still respect her for what she has done for the community not what she may do in her personal life.

Response:

I agree that this was a media farce. I was also glad to see true wicca represented, but am afraid it feel on deaf ears. The kids they chose played right into the producers hands..in fact someone in the auidence asked why are you wearing a black cape to which the girl responded "…They asked me too" but underneath she was wearing jeans and a blouse. Another gripe I have against the show is the fact that Ricki Lake is supposed to open minded, which Im sure she is, but hey money talks and bs walks..

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (LONG) ago there was a wicca/witchy thing on the old joan rivers talk show. laurie cabot was on and it was one of the 1st things to really inspire me. (sad but true…) ~moiRa why did you have to slam her, anyone that inspire should at the very least been remembered for that and the good they do, the only thing that is sad is, how soon we forget. Vampi proud to say I know her and still respect her for what she has done for the community not what she may do in her personal life.

waitwait waIT a second!! i was NOT slamming laurie i was slamming joan rivers! sorry if that came off confusing….laurie will *always* be a source of inspiration to me. i own several of her books and just basically think shes a sweet peron. once again NOT A DIS TO CABOT. sheeesh. i just found it a little odd that one of my first callings or whatever took place on the smarmy joan rivers show. hope this clears things up… ~moiRa ~**~…how heroes can be so delicately surrounded by ice…~**~ ~**~…that their eyes shine and promises are spoken…~**~ ~**~…in a glacial cloud of smoke~**~

Response:

It’s a ‘talk show’!  Did you really expect better??  Hey…I say at least is wasn’t Jerry Springer with people beating the crap out of each other!! ~J~ Or am I oragami? Fold it up and just pretend. Demented as the motives in your head.

Response:

Chicago Tribune OSA article URL?

Question:

The article itself would seem to be cursed: After reading a post (by Big Al?) regarding the article, and how for some reason the poster couldnt copy and upload the text, I went to that page, attempted to copy and promptly crashed. Now that I’ve opened this newsgroup again from a few sources (dedicated newsreader, Netscape), I still can’t find the original post. Can someone repost or email me the URL? Thanks, and all best, Scrypt

Response:

I believe this is small enough to not violate any usenet rules so here’s the text of the article: http://www.chicago.tribune.com/print/tempo/9801/08/tempo/9801080392.html RUDE AWAKENINGS HEADACHES, WEIGHT GAIN, MEMORY LAPSES CAN ALL BE THE RESULT OF SLEEP APNEA By Bob Condor, Tribune Staff Writer Web-posted Thursday, January 8, 1998; 6:12 a.m. CST Whenever she travels by airplane, Rosalind Cartwright spots one or two likely candidates to visit her place of employment, the Sleep Disorders Service at Rush-Presbyterian-St. Luke

anti-oxidants

Question:

Hi, People have probably asked this question before in this group, but, could anyone tell me if anti-oxidants have any beneficial effect for MS sufferers and also the best form of anti-oxidant to take, ie natural or brand name (British brand names if possible). Thanks in advance Les.

Response:

> People have probably asked this question before in this group, but, > could anyone tell me if anti-oxidants have any beneficial effect for MS > sufferers

Dear Less, I tried several different  anti-oxidents among other supplements.  I can’t say that they really helped me, but they may help others depending on their symptoms and MS type…  I do continue to take B-12 injections every two weeks – Thinkk it helps with fatigue/tiredness.    I have also have two (not to successful) steroid drip IV treatments within a month.  Dr. is starting me on Avonex later this month.  Hope others post also as products and treatments work differently on so many of us.  Good luck to you.  Julie

Response:

On Mon, 08 Sep 1997 23:32:43 +0100, L W <pho…@mcmail.com> wrote: >Hi, >People have probably asked this question before in this group, but, >could anyone tell me if anti-oxidants have any beneficial effect for MS >sufferers and also the best form of anti-oxidant to take, ie natural or >brand name (British brand names if possible).

Les, I’ve tried pycnogenol and grape seed extract. I "tested" them using the start/stop method and found no difference in my MS symptoms. I no longer take them. — Steve —————————————————– Stephen Wolstenholme:             Author of NeuroDiet           http://www.tropheus.demon.co.uk

Response:

I currently use Grape Seed Extract and I swear by it but just like all medications and treatments not everything works for everyone (bummer). I have been following Tim Stouts therory for several months now.  You can read about his therory at http://spider.innercite.com/~tstout/ms/welcome.html Kenny Howard Web Page: http://www.dcr.net/~khoward/ms.html On 9 Sep 97 11:05:42 GMT, "Julie Cummings" <ja…@linkny.com> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> People have probably asked this question before in this group, but, >> could anyone tell me if anti-oxidants have any beneficial effect for MS >> sufferers >Dear Less, >I tried several different  anti-oxidents among other supplements.  I can’t >say that they really helped me, but they may help others depending on their >symptoms and MS type…  I do continue to take B-12 injections every two >weeks – Thinkk it helps with fatigue/tiredness.    I have also have two >(not to successful) steroid drip IV treatments within a month.  Dr. is >starting me on Avonex later this month.  Hope others post also as products >and treatments work differently on so many of us.  Good luck to you.  Julie

Response:

Yes they do. My husband was dx 11/96 and NEVER took any supplement but now swears by them.  I, however, was an avid user of New Vision products.  They have an OPC Grape Seed Extract that he swears by [to know him, that says alot].  His cousin [who suffers from severe allergies]  is now taking it and was amazed by his energy level and gen’l health improvement. I’ve never tried OTC brands of anti-oxidants, rather have always gone to a local health food store [not the big GNC type places].  For more information you can e-mail me at ML…@aol.com or check out the website: www.newvision.com.  Luck to u.

Response:

Has anyone tried melatonin?  Does it help? TIA, Matt

Response:

Matt Elrod <crea…@islandnet.com> wrote: > Has anyone tried melatonin?  Does it help?

sometimes! —  /^ | []|  Itazuke Tower, this is AF 801     [  Former Itazuke H.S Students  ] |=|-|   …—…  Go around, go around  [ contact me at obri...@sky.net ] |=| |                                           John O’Brien

Response:

>Subject: Re: anti-oxidants >From: crea…@islandnet.com (Matt Elrod) >Date: 19 Sep 1997 10:08:51 -0700 >Message-id: <Z1qI00kbMo1c09…@islandnet.com> >Has anyone tried melatonin?  Does it help? >TIA, >Matt

Hi, I thought that melatonin wasn’t safe for people with aut-immune problems. Please be careful Rosanne

Response:

ri…@aol.com (RIJLJ) wrote: } }Hi, }I thought that melatonin wasn’t safe for people with aut-immune problems. }Please be careful

Hmmmm.  This makes sense as melatonin is supposed to strengthen the immune system.  OTOH, natural melatonin levels are reduced by stress and boosting melatonin helps users sleep. Perhaps this is why some people report good results with cannabis. I understand that cannabis is a very potent melatonin stimulant but it also has immuno-suppresive qualities.  Maybe cannabis boosts melatonin without over-stimulating the immune system.  Melatonin is hard to find in Canada but cannabis is plentiful.  Thoughts? Thanks again, Matt

Response:

Matt Elrod wrote: > Has anyone tried melatonin?  Does it help? > TIA, > Matt

I have tried the Melatonin and believe that it helps a bit.  In this game, bits are appreciated. Barb

Response:

Yep – I tried melatonin – it is the natural substance produced by the pineal gland at the back of the brain – near the end of the pituitary gland and it is released to allow us to have "circadian rhythm’ – a natural sleep cycle. Actually it is not an anti-oxidant and NO it’s not a contraceptive – but naturally it allows us to have a real sleep cycle. If your body does not make it or you get out of a sleep cycle (i.e – pain illness, jet lag etc.) the use of melatonin is often tried – works for some not others. I took it because I sleep so badly and no it does not work well for me. It worked for only 1 night (rats-rats-rats) but is now legal in Australia – not previously like in the USA. It may be worth trying as we are all different – my experiences are not unique. Hope it works well for those who give it a go. I found it so expensive that when I had finished with it I gave it back to my Dr. to give it to some one else..Hope you get zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz lotsa Love Barb. xx.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Barbara Edmiston" <looka…@ozemail.com.au> wrote: }Yep – I tried melatonin – it is the natural substance produced by the }pineal gland at the back of the brain – near the end of the pituitary gland }and it is released to allow us to have "circadian rhythm’ – a natural sleep }cycle. Actually it is not an anti-oxidant and NO it’s not a contraceptive – }but naturally it allows us to have a real sleep cycle. If your body does }not make it or you get out of a sleep cycle (i.e – pain illness, jet lag }etc.) the use of melatonin is often tried – works for some not others. }I took it because I sleep so badly and no it does not work well for me. }It worked for only 1 night (rats-rats-rats) but is now legal in Australia – }not previously like in the USA. It may be worth trying as we are all }different – my experiences are not unique. Hope it works well for those who }give it a go. I found it so expensive that when I had finished with it I }gave it back to my Dr. }to give it to some one else..Hope you get zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz lotsa }Love Barb. xx.

Actually, it is an anti-oxidant.  Melatonin seems to have many therapeutic applications beyond aiding sleep.  Among them, it seems to boost the immune system so it may not be advisable for people with autoimmune diseases.  Melatonin is prohibited here in Canada but we can mail order it from the U.S. Matt                        Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)  What exactly is Melatonin?      "Melatonin is the all-natural nightcap. It’s secreted by the pineal      gland, a pea-size structure at the center of the brain, as our eyes      register the fall of darkness." At night melatonin is produced to      help our bodies regulate our sleep-wake cycles. The amount of      melatonin produced by our body seems to lessen as we get older.      Scientists believe this may be why young people have less problem      sleeping than older people.  Why take melatonin?      "Studies suggest that low-dose supplements of melatonin can hasten      sleep and ease jet lag, without the hazards or side effects of      prescription sleeping pills." Melatonin may have many other uses      and has been reported to make people feel better, strengthen the      immune system, and reduce free radicals in the body. Current      research is underway to determine melatonin’s effect as an      anti-oxidant, immno-modulator in cancer, delayed sleep-phase      disorders, and jet lag. Tests are still under way so there is much      to still be learned about melatonin and its effects on the human      body.  Who benefits the most?      Travelers and people suffering from mild sleep disorders. According      to Newsweek, a typical comment from discussion groups on the      Internet is, "’Folks, I’ve tried melatonin and it’s great. It has      …restored my sleep cycle, given me lots of energy.’"  What is the recommended dosage?      The appropriate dose of pure melatonin can vary enormously from      person to person, and successful results have been achieved with      dosages ranging from 0.1 mg to 200 mg – that’s a factor of 2,000!      "In controlled clinical studies researchers have found that as      little as a tenth of a milligram (100 mcg) of melatonin makes      dozing off easier, whatever the time of day." Start off small (e.g.      less than half of a milligram of melatonin) each night before      bed-time, and work your way to larger doses if needed.  What is mg, mcg, and what is the difference?      mcg and mg are units of weight, like ounces and pounds, but are      applied to tiny fractions of grams – 1 mcg = 1 microgram =      one-millionth ( 1 / 1,000,000 ) of a gram      1 mg = 1 milligram = one-thousandth ( 1 / 1,000 ) of a gram = 1,000      mcg      Thus, a 1.5 mg tablet is five times the dosage of a 300 mcg (.3 mg)      tablet. The melatonin substance makes up only a tiny fraction of an      average pill. For example, a 1.5 mg tablet from our Worldwide Labs      brand weighs in at 450 mg, 448.5 mg of which are inactive      ingredients such as common fillers and binding agents to form the      pill.  How do I best determine pricing value?      Remember that cost per gram of melatonin is not necessarily the      best indicator. Splitting a melatonin pill into two is difficult,      and splitting it even farther into equal portions is frustrating      and almost impossible. The best way to judge value is to determine      the cost per coverage time. For example, a bottle of 100 tablets of      melatonin at the appropriate strength should last 100 days. If the      bottle of melatonin costs $10.00, the price per day is 10 cents.      (Cheap!)  Are there any side-effects in taking melatonin?      According to one report, "10 percent of the [melatonin] users said      the hormone did nothing for them, and another 10 percent complained      of side effects such as nightmares, headaches, morning groginess,      mild depression, and low sex drive. In past studies, researchers      have given people up to 600 to 3,000 times the usual doses of      melatonin – without causing any toxicity." Side-effects normally      last no more than one or two days.  What additional benefits are there and how reliable are these  claims?      "In test-tube and animal experiments, researchers have found that      [melatonin] protects cells, strengthens the immune system and slows      the growth of some tumors." Tests with laboratory mice suggest that      melatonin might also reduce the effects of aging – but remember,      these results are very preliminary. "…Some experts are appalled      to see so many people toying with such a potent hormone. One      concern is that high doses, while causing no immediate harm, could      have unknown long-term effects. ‘Even one milligram, the smallest      commercially available dose, is at least three times higher than      the normal amount in the body.’"  Should certain people avoid taking melatonin?      Yes. "Those include women who are pregnant or nursing (since no one      knows how excessive exposure to the hormone might affect a fetus or      infant); people with severe allergies or autoimmune diseases      (melatonin could exacerbate such conditions by stimulating the      immune system); people with immune-system cancers such as lymphoma      or leukemia (for the same reason), and healthy children (who      already produce it in abundance). Women trying to conceive should      also think twice about taking the hormone, since high doses can act      as a contraceptive." As with any substance introduced into your      body, if you have a medical condition you should always consult      your physician first before taking melatonin. MARIJUANA Of all the known ways to stimulate melatonin production, none is more dramatic than smoking marijuana. Marijuana stimulates production of a prostglandin called PGE2, which may relate to its ability to stimulate melatonin production. Italian researchers discovered that when eight men smoked a cigarette containing the active ingredient in marijuana, THC, they had dramatically higher melatonin levels twenty minutes later. After two hours, their melatonin levels were 4,000 percent higher than at baseline! The fact that smoking marijuana is accompanied by a dramatic increase in melatonin production may explain some of the drug’s positive effects. A 1995 article in The Journal of the American Medical Association reported that the hallucinogen is being used to counteract the toxicity of chemotherapy, treat migraines, reduce intraocular pressure, minimize pain, treat menstrual cramps, and moderate wasting syndrome in AIDS patients. Melatonin has been shown to ameliorate each and every one of these conditions.

Response:

Acid Reflux and TS

Question:

My son has been persistently clearing his throat for several years. We are trying to determine if it might be an acid reflux problem, which is supposedly underdiagnosed in children.  We suspect that it might NOT be a tic because 1) he constantly complains about an "unfresh feeling" in his mouth, 2) he complains mostly at night when he tries to settle down to sleep, 3) he burps a lot, and 4) he wakes up with terrible breath.  In order to avoid intrusive gastrointestinal procedures, we decided to do a drug trial to see if he got better.  With the over-the-counter strength of Zantac (75 mg I think) he got no better.  He is now on 10 mg of Prilosec (Omeprazole) for a 3-week trial.  Because of his age, it

Sleep & ADD

Question:

Since most people don’t get enough sleep, couldn’t this be a common factor in exacerbating ADHD problems, especially lack of concentration and frustration intolerance?  Has anyone else noticed this?  I haven’t read about it anywhere. I’ve notice that my ‘bad’ days are when I’m tired, and it takes me 8 hours to get 4 hours of work done (the rest of the time spent daydreaming or off-task).  My 3 1/2 year old son turns into a nightmare when he doesn’t have enough sleep.  The difference is VERY dramatic.  When I pick him up from daycare, I know instantly when he hasn’t napped because he’s doing donuts on the ceiling and talking nonstop.   Both of us get more wound up and difficult as we get tired, and naturally have a hard time falling asleep!   Is this just me, or have other people experienced this? Teresa

Response:

(Hyper Cog) writes: Since most people don’t get enough sleep, couldn’t this be a common factor in exacerbating ADHD problems, especially lack of concentration and frustration intolerance?  Has anyone else noticed this?  I haven’t read about it anywhere. ?(Big Snip) Teresa

My son and I are both extremely sensitive to lack of sleep. I always felt it was imperative to get the full 7-8 hrs or I will be totally useless and dazed, or very bitchy the next day.  My son is the same way only add extremely cranky and easily fustrated.  I don’t know if it is connected with ADD or not, lets see what others write in.  But we need some non ADD input as a "control". Ann

Response:

My biggest problem is being tired and still not being able to go to bed. As I get tired, I seem to start craving stimulation. I think maybe I should put my computer on a timer…the net is my worst enemy…especially if I’m on after 10:00pm. I can’t log off or turn the tv off or stop listening to music. I think I fear missing something. Ted

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I have ADD and a real bad case of insomnia. I’ve always had trouble sleeping, it would take me forever to go to sleep, and then it would take forever for me to wake up again. For years I dealt with it by taking 2-3 unisom’s and 3-4 shots of bourbon. Worked great, but, well, you know….    So now I’m sober, and keep having these bouts where I’m up three, four, sometimes five days striaght. Ever go five days with out any sleep? It’s not a day at Disneyland. The doc kept giving me seditaves, but none of them fazed me. Last time it happened I put my foot down and she gave me Clonazepam. That did the trick! But it’s too strong a med for me too want to have to take too much of. So far I only needed it the one time.    I’ve been taking Cylert for the ADD, but have dicountiued it until we figure out whats behind the insomnia.   Was taking Wellbutrin as well, and noticed an interesting effect it had on me. Like I said, it would take me forever to wake up in the morning. It will be noon or one O’clock before I’m feeling ‘right’. I started on the Wellbutrin, and as soon as my feet hit the floor in the morning, I was wide awake! Now that I’m med free again, I’m really missing be able to wake up so easily. Ken

Response:

        Yes, the lack of sleep can make the ADHD problems much worse, just as it makes regular peoples lives much worse.  Before my daughter went on medication,  she had a very hard time switching from weekends to Mondays,  I would be sending one very cranky girl off to school.          She would come home and go to bed early on Monday nights and the rest of the week would be relatively speaking, fine.   When I first put her on ritalin,  it effected her sleep, and her bad day became Friday, because she had troubles going to sleep all week.  She usually slept in on Saturday and had a nap on Sunday to catch up.          Now we have mixed her meds with an antidepressent and she goes to bed early  and gets up really early!!  However, she usually just watchs TV and waits for us to arise at 7.  To relax, instead of napping, she has taken up  daydreaming.         So, yes,  we  noticed it.  It is hard to get enough sleep. Good luck. — Barbara

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have ADD and a real bad case of insomnia. I’ve always had trouble sleeping, it would take me forever to go to sleep, and then it would take forever for me to wake up again. For years I dealt with it by taking 2-3 unisom’s and 3-4 shots of bourbon. Worked great, but, well, you know….   So now I’m sober, and keep having these bouts where I’m up three, four, sometimes five days striaght. Ever go five days with out any sleep? It’s not a day at Disneyland. The doc kept giving me seditaves, but none of them fazed me. Last time it happened I put my foot down and she gave me Clonazepam. That did the trick

I am exactly the same; so is my ADD daughter. I don’t drink caffeine cuz I’d never get to sleep. After a lifetime of this, I have now developed fibromyalgia. Lots of horrible symptoms and all-over pain exacerbated by lack of stage 4 sleep. I finally *demanded* Ambien, but I have to take Valium or something with it in order to stay asleep for more than 4 hours. My mother told me that you couldn’t make up for lost sleep, the only sleep that counts is before midnight and a bunch of other guilt-inducing self-esteem killing myths. Now I am militant about my sleep and refuse to apologise to anyone for being asleep if they call me at noon. Of course, I have completely fallen apart and am applying for disability, so it’s a little late. If I don;t get enough sleep–deep restorative sleep–I am in pain, can’t think or do anything. Doctors were so busy worrying that I might be depressed, suicidal, addicted if they gave me meds to help me sleep–thanks a lot—now I have to fight them for pain meds!! I’m going to try Wellburtin soon; if it helps with the FM, ADD & depression that’s less drugs I have to put in my body. ~Velvet O’Rourke~ Sacramento, California

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  So now I’m sober, and keep having these bouts where I’m up three, four, sometimes five days striaght. Ever go five days with out any sleep? It’s not a day at Disneyland. The doc kept giving me seditaves, but none of them fazed me. Last time it happened I put my foot down and she gave me Clonazepam. That did the trick

This sounds like Manic Depression  [but please, nobody shoot me for saying so ]. Bill F Bill F

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I’M NOT MANIC! But maybe, just in case, I should get all the sharp objects out of the house…

Response:

I’ve found that antihistamines can help me get to sleep.  Another thing which helps is a 5 mg Melatonin tablet (I’m a 185 lb 34 year old male).   In case you don’t know what Melatonin is, it’s a neurotransmitter available over the counter at health food stores and drug stores.  My neurologist/sleep specialist said its a relatively mild sleep aid and won’t hurt me. The only problem I’ve had with Melatonin (other than that I neglect to take it!) is that if I use it every night, after about 2-3 weeks it is no longer effective.  I try to use it only on nights I predict will be difficult.  I take it about an hour before I want to sleep. The other thing that has helped is taking Ritalin during the day.  I just started a few months ago, and this seems to help regulate my sleep.  I don’t take it after 5 PM. I have ADD and a real bad case of insomnia. I’ve always had trouble sleeping, it would take me forever to go to sleep, and then it would take forever for me to wake up again. For years I dealt with it by taking 2-3 unisom’s and 3-4 shots of bourbon. Worked great, but, well, you know….   So now I’m sober, and keep having these bouts where I’m up three, four, sometimes five days striaght. Ever go five days with out any sleep? It’s not a day at Disneyland. The doc kept giving me seditaves, but none of them fazed me. Last time it happened I put my foot down and she gave me Clonazepam. That did the trick! But it’s too strong a med for me too want to have to take too much of. So far I only needed it the one time.   I’ve been taking Cylert for the ADD, but have dicountiued it until we figure out whats behind the insomnia.  Was taking Wellbutrin as well, and noticed an interesting effect it had on me. Like I said, it would take me forever to wake up in the morning. It will be noon or one O’clock before I’m feeling ‘right’. I started on the Wellbutrin, and as soon as my feet hit the floor in the morning, I was wide awake! Now that I’m med free again, I’m really missing be able to wake up so easily. Ken

– Don Stauffer

Response:

I agree, Manic Depression is one possible cause of staying awake for days.  Drinking can also be one way people react to Manic Depression.   Maybe you should find out what other symptoms are typical and, if you fit more of them, see a doctor about it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   So now I’m sober, and keep having these bouts where I’m up three, four, sometimes five days striaght. Ever go five days with out any sleep? It’s not a day at Disneyland. The doc kept giving me seditaves, but none of them fazed me. Last time it happened I put my foot down and she gave me Clonazepam. That did the trick This sounds like Manic Depression  [but please, nobody shoot me for saying so ]. Bill F Bill F

– Don Stauffer

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Actually, just the opposite: children being hyper when tired is a common and normal occurrance, and ADDers typically report "self-medicating" by sleep deprivation.  This can lead to sleep disorders. I have the worst AD/HD symptoms when I am well rested, by far.  It is at the very top of my list of things which make me worse!  Since I hate being tired, this is a constant dilemma with me. Since most people don’t get enough sleep, couldn’t this be a common factor in exacerbating ADHD problems, especially lack of concentration and frustration intolerance?  Has anyone else noticed this?  I haven’t read about it anywhere. I’ve notice that my ‘bad’ days are when I’m tired, and it takes me 8 hours to get 4 hours of work done (the rest of the time spent daydreaming or off-task).  My 3 1/2 year old son turns into a nightmare when he doesn’t have enough sleep.  The difference is VERY dramatic.  When I pick him up from daycare, I know instantly when he hasn’t napped because he’s doing donuts on the ceiling and talking nonstop.   Both of us get more wound up and difficult as we get tired, and naturally have a hard time falling asleep!   Is this just me, or have other people experienced this? Teresa

– Don Stauffer

Response:

I’ve found that antihistamines can help me get to sleep.  Another thing which helps is a 5 mg Melatonin tablet (I’m a 185 lb 34 year old male). <snip The other thing that has helped is taking Ritalin during the day.  I just started a few months ago, and this seems to help regulate my sleep.  I don’t take it after 5 PM. Don Stauffer

A lot of ADDults find that taking a small dose (5 or 10 mg) of Ritalin just before bedtime actually helps them get to sleep.  It seems to "silence" the noise in their head enough to let them relax, without stimulating them. On the other hand, when my doc had me on too high a dose of Ritalin SR, I found it difficult to keep my eyes open about an hour after taking the medication and would often take a nap at that time! <g Deb (whose had sleep problems since childhood)

Response:

I’M NOT MANIC! But maybe, just in case, I should get all the sharp objects out of the house…

heheh  I just mentioned it because that’s what a doctor tried to tell me. So I asked him why I have no symtoms of mania. I sleep like a baby [even medicated with Ritalin].  Good luck anyway… Bill F

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   So now I’m sober, and keep having these bouts where I’m up three, four, sometimes five days striaght. Ever go five days with out any sleep? It’s not a day at Disneyland. The doc kept giving me seditaves, but none of them fazed me. Last time it happened I put my foot down and she gave me Clonazepam. That did the trick This sounds like Manic Depression  [but please, nobody shoot me for saying so ]. Bill F Bill F

Ummm..that should have been: I have ADD and a real bad case of insomnia. I’ve always had trouble sleeping, it would take me forever to go to sleep, and then it would take forever for me to wake up again

I have enough diagnoses as it is ~Velvet O’Rourke~                                           Reading: alt.support.atten-deficit Sacramento, California                                                   sci.med.diseases.hepatitis           alt.med.fibromyalgia "Virginia Wolfe never bleached her sunroom! Her                alt.med.cfs  sunroom was pitch black; she liked it that way!"               sci.med.cannabis                                                ~30 Something                sci.med.nutrition

Response:

I’ve found that antihistamines can help me get to sleep.  Another thing which helps is a 5 mg Melatonin tablet (I’m a 185 lb 34 year old male).

I’ve had good luck with melatonin, but when I first started on it at 3 mg, it actually kept me wide awake (and, paradoxically, made me more productive and energetic the following day on almost no sleep).  On the advice of the nutritionist at the company I bought the melatonin from, I cut the dose in half and had excellent results.  However, it was such a pain in the butt to snip capsules in half that I tried going back up to 3 mg and had no more problems.  I probably just needed to work up to the dose.                                                   Steve — Steve Conley                It’s now safe to turn off your television.   !! By sending me any unsolicited advertisements in email, you hereby consent !! to having 5 days of articles from alt.tasteless sent back to you.

Response:

Suggestions for sleeplessness

Question:

OK This is a big problem for me.  What do you do when you can not sleep?   It is so important for me to sleep right now, because I am basically on death’s door.  If I do not sleep, I become hysterical and start crying. My doctor prescribed me something but it is too strong.  I then tried Tylenol PM which was also too strong.  I cut it down to a third of a Tylenol Pm which was also too strong.  Last night I took a teaspoon of Children’s cough syrup and a baby asprin and it was too strong.  I went to bed at 9:00 and could not get out of bed until 2:30 the next afternoon!  Is there anyone who can relate?  The medicines kill my appetite completely and that freaks my parents and the doctors out, but they know that I need my rest.  Help!!  

**snip**    The right approach depends on what’s keeping you awake.  Sometimes the only approach that works is to get up and do some serious self-analysis — listen to yourself, find out what the problem is and deal with it if it’s something you can deal with right away — otherwise make a contract with yourself to do what you can at the appropriate time.

I agree with everything Cougar posted. To expand on his last paragraph, though, I totally relax myself to clear my mind.  You’ll have to find out exactly what works for you, for me it’s a self-hypnosis.  My doctor taught me how.   Another way a friend of mine falls asleep is she concentrates on relaxing her toes, then goes up her legs, then up her body, then her arms, then last her head.  She tells herself her body is deadweight on the bed while her spirit goes to her "safe place", which she doesn’t share with anyone. But the safe place is warm and comforting.  It’s such a relaxing feeling that the next thing she realizes it’s morning and time to get up.

Response:

Hi Court! I used to take Valerian root available at health food stores to help me sleep. Also once in the hospital my pscyh had me notice what thoughts were going on when I woke up in the middle of the night.  Then I would work on whatever those thoughts were. I also listen to progressive relaxation tapes at night, and/or visualization tapes.  There are many available at bookstores or record stores (or whatever you call them now since there are no more records). I have also tried self hypnosis.  All of these things help, and even if they don’t make you sleep they make you feel more relaxed and do give you some sort of rest. Like somebody else said, I learned a long time ago also not to get really upset if I couldn’t sleep.  If it just isn’t happening no matter what I will either get up and do something, or journal, or just lie there and listen to the tapes and relax if I can. Keep on hanging on.  We are with you. Kirloga

Response:

Have you tried melatonin?

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OK This is a big problem for me.  What do you do when you can not sleep?   It is so important for me to sleep right now, because I am basically on death’s door.  If I do not sleep, I become hysterical and start crying.   My doctor prescribed me something but it is too strong.  I then tried Tylenol PM which was also too strong.  I cut it down to a third of a Tylenol Pm which was also too strong.  Last night I took a teaspoon of Children’s cough syrup and a baby asprin and it was too strong.  I went to bed at 9:00 and could not get out of bed until 2:30 the next afternoon!  Is there anyone who can relate?  The medicines kill my appetite completely and that freaks my parents and the doctors out, but they know that I need my rest.  Help!!  

        My answer is to stop trying to sleep and get up and read for a while, or do some journal writing or something.  The harder you try to sleep the harder it is, but sometimes half an hour of reading works better than hours of lying in bed awake.         The way sleeping pills work is to put you in a drugged state of unconsciousness (which is not sleep and doesn’t give you any rest) in the hope that when the drug wears off you’ll pass from the drugged coma into sleep.  Sometimes it works, other times you wake up as soon as the drug wears off and nothing is gained.         You might try chamomile tea.  It’s a mild relaxant — it doesn’t knock you out, just helps you relax.         Sleep disorders are very common and there are a lot of books out on them and a lot of different approaches.         The right approach depends on what’s keeping you awake.  Sometimes the only approach that works is to get up and do some serious self-analysis — listen to yourself, find out what the problem is and deal with it if it’s something you can deal with right away — otherwise make a contract with yourself to do what you can at the appropriate time. Cougar Allen :{) If I had my way I would tear this temple down.

Response:

OK  This is a big problem for me.  What do you do when you can not sleep?   It is so important for me to sleep right now, because I am basically on death’s door.  If I do not sleep, I become hysterical and start crying.   My doctor prescribed me something but it is too strong.  I then tried Tylenol PM which was also too strong.  I cut it down to a third of a Tylenol Pm which was also too strong.  Last night I took a teaspoon of Children’s cough syrup and a baby asprin and it was too strong.  I went to bed at 9:00 and could not get out of bed until 2:30 the next afternoon!  Is there anyone who can relate?  The medicines kill my appetite completely and that freaks my parents and the doctors out, but they know that I need my rest.  Help!!                                  Court

Response:

baby not sleeping through night

Question:

There is a really wonderful video tape called "Helping Your Child to Sleep Through the Night,’ which I borrowed from my public library. I watched the tape while sitting up with my sleepless newborn…the techniques described in it were simple and worked very well. Good luck Maria

Response:

spwil…@uiuc.edu (Stephen Wilcox) wrote: >My appologies if this has been covered recently or in the FAQ, however, >I’m new to this group.  We have a 14 week old little wonder named Max who >is chiseling away at his mom’s sanity by not sleeping through the night. >I know this is a lot to ask, but if he would regularaly sleep for 4 hours >at a shot we’d be thrilled.  Over the last two weeks he has started to >wake up every two hours in the night.  

I’m sure if you enquire from any new parents in your area, or outside your area, you’ll find it quite universal that the little darlings do not necessarily take their sleep when it is most convenient for Mum and Dad. Does he take larger chunks of sleep during the day? I ask this because my daughter – now an adult, would sleep for hours in the daytime and very little in the hours of darkness.!! >I would love to hear effective >strategies for encouraging Max to sleep a little longer, and hopefully >stave off taking my wife to the nuthouse.  Thanks

One idea could be to take it in turns to be on call. Work in shifts so that you both get undisturbed sleep from time to time, although at the expense of the other. Not only will it help deal with Max’s varied sleep pattern but you will both appreciate the difficulties resulting from your own disturbed sleep and be able to work together until Max’s pattern is more established. Also, there may be other factors which are disturbing his sleep. Is he hotter than usual? Most babies sleep better in a cooler environment. My own daughter did not like to be in a room on her own, and would always cry out if she woke up and couldn’t see her parents closeby. She was what a I termed a ’social’ baby and in her early days preferred to be around someone – She did grow out of this! Good luck. 1