Sleeping Disorder » Sleep Disorders Clinic

Comparison of ResMed Autoset Spirit and Puritan Bennett 420E flow generators

admin — Fri, 04 Mar 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Thanks Andy,that was very useful ,I think you’ve covered just about everything.It’s great to get feedback from people who actually use the machines and know what to look for and what comparisons to make "Andy Hall" wrote in message

news:e1ch2158bi4fj090suorph49ubm5n28l26@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ve been using my ResMed Autoset Spirit autotitrating flow generator > for approximately two years and have had very good results with it. > For me, it has done exactly what the manufacturers claim as well as > what is suggested by clinical studies. I have uncomplicated OSA > with no other respiratory or other sleep disorders. Since I am in > the UK and using private sector healthcare, diagnosis and > consultations are paid for by insurance, but equipment has to be paid > for by the patient. For the original choice, I took a lot of care > over selection of the type of machine, based on my own research as > well as discussion with the specialist. I also looked carefully at > manufacturer support of product and patient. > For the choice of first machine, ResMed’s Autoset Spirit met all of > the criteria and I’ve been very pleased with the choice. In the UK > public sector, equipment is supplied and supported via the clinic with > what can be quite a variable waiting period. In the private sector, > the patient can work directly with the manufacturer for the supply and > support of the equipment. ResMed’s office is under an hour from where > I live amd they offer equipment supply and support as well as help > with mask supply and fitting – it’s professionally organised with > qualified nurses on staff. > I’m a strong believer in patient involvement in treatment, to the > point that I insist on being in the driving seat regarding medical > issues. This is not to say that I don’t follow the doctor’s > diagnosis, advice and treatment, but at the end of the day, I have > more skin in the game than he does so I check out everything for > myself as well. Part of this is that I certainly want to monitor > effectiveness of treatment for myself, so an important issue was being > able to look at what the equipment was doing and the results. PC > software for the Spirit is available, and although normally it is used > by clinics, the specialist was satisfied that it would be useful for > me to be able to able to look at how my treatment was progressing and > contact him if needed. The software does allow for machine adjustment > of pressure settings that may be dangerous to some patients, so the > doctor needed to be satisfied that I understood the issues of that as > well as the meaning of the results. > All of this has worked really well. I’ve been able to look at the > effect of automatic operation over a period of time and to see the > variations by sleeping position, alcohol if any, day to day variation > an weight. The doctor had also determined early on an appropriate > fixed pressure should I have elected to go with a single pressure > machine. With his agreement, I have tried periods of that and > automatic operation. I’ve found that for me, there is a compliance > improvement in autotitration mode compared with fixed pressure of (on > average) 45 minutes a day. This was based on periods of two weeks > each way, with sleep and mask on times of 6.5 hours and 7.25 hours. > Obviously this isn’t a broad scientific study, but it was enough to > satisfy me that there is a worthwhile benefit for me at least. > The Spirit works well. I quite like the features of automatic stop > and start and integrated heated humidifier. The software is easy to > use and results are clear to read as long as one understands the > meaning of statistical data. > However, I do travel a lot, and the machine, with all the bits and > pieces fills a fair sized bag. It hasn’t been a big problem, but I > felt that I would like to have a backup machine and if possible, > something a bit smaller for travel. I also thought that it would be a > good idea to choose something for a different vendor to see if there > was anything different about the treatment. > With all of those criteria in mind, it wasn’t that hard to select the > Puritan Bennett 420E as being similar to the ResMed in terms of > functionality, but lighter and smaller. I checked with the specialist > and he was happy with the idea of going for this as well. I looked > through the machine specifications and the associated equipment and > was happy with what I found. > I thought that it would be useful to write a few notes. Obviously > some of this is related to the particular situation of buying directly > from the manufacturer and in the UK, but other aspects are fairly > generic about the products. > – The 420E is certainly smaller and lighter than the Spirit on its > own, If I were just doing a one night away trip, I could use the > 420E, with a nasal pillow setup like the ResMed Swift, skip the > humidifier and have a small and light thing to carry. > – I really need to have a heated humidifier because I make regular > trips to the Nordic countries and this time of year humidity is very > low. Without the heated humidifier, I get quite sore nasal passages. > The Spirit has a built in humidifier, powered from the machine itself. > For the 420 series there is a humidifier which sits underneath and has > a water chamber which slides into the heater. The humidifier piece > and main machine still fit into a bag that is smaller than that for > the Spirit. However, the 420E humidifier is powered separately with > a mains power cord, whereas the Spirit has one cord. With the 420E > setup I have a wallwart power supply for the main unit, a power cord > for the humidifier and an double outlet adaptor for the two power > requirements. THis isn’t a big issue, but it does mean that I have to > have a more careful drill when I leave a hotel room in the morning to > make sure that all the bits go in the bag. > – The 420E humidifier is quite fierce. It makes the water noticably > warm even on the lowest setting. On higher settings, it is like a > sauna with several ladles of water on the fire. The Spirit has rather > more gentle settings which still seem to provide good humidity. > – The 420E comes with its own 2m hose with a small pressure sensing > tube running inside. The Spirit has a choice of 2m and 3m hoses with > a setting on the machine. This means more careful selection of > machine position, although with the need for an extension cord anyway, > not a big issue. > – The 420E is able to tolerate a wider range of interfaces. I’ve > stuck to ResMed interfaces on the Spirit, but have found that they all > work OK for me on the 420E – i.e. Activa, Mirage Vista and Swift. > – The 420E has a little more configurability. The Spirit has > settings for minimum and maximum pressure in autotitrating mode > together with hose lenght selection and mask type. The Autoset > algorithm increases pressure up to 10cm in response to flow limitation > and detects and handles apnoea events above that. On the 420E, the > changeover point is configurable. I didn’t see a reason to change > it. > – The Spirit has a ramp feature for fixed pressure and a hold feature > at minimum pressure (settling time) for auto mode. Personally, I find > these irritating and turned them off. The 420E has similar things, > but in auto mode the minimum hold time is 15 mins before the machine > switches to fully automatic. I didn’t have a particular issue with > this, though. Whereas the Spirit begins data recording immediately, > the 420E begins after the 15 minutes. > – The automatic start an stop of the Spirit are absent from the 420E. > You have to press the start/stop button. I didn’t have a huge issue > with this. > – I bought the software for the 420E. It’s cheaper then that for the > Spirit. The download time to the PC is horrendously slow – can be 20 > minutes – whereas the Spirit and its software take under a minute. > However the data presentation is a little better on the 420E software. > – For me, the behaviour of the two machines in autotitration mode is > remarkably similar, measured over several weeks. Although the > algorithms may well be different in detail, the pressure behaviour and > recorded results are virtually the same for me averaged over the time. > There were no surprises of funny peaks etc. in either case. > – Both manufacturers have easy access for a UK private patient to buy > the equipment and both appear to have good servie departments. I > asked service and repair questions of both at different times and was > satisfied with the answers. However, I don’t believe that > Tyco/Puritan Bennett has gone as far as ResMed in terms of > availability of additional services such as mask fitting help etc. > It would be difficult to select between the two machines in terms of > effectiveness and usability. Both give good reported results for me > and the data agrees with that. I like the small size of the 420E, > but dislike the collection of bits to complete the setup. However, > even with all of this it is smaller and lighter than the Spirit. > The Spirit has everything together in one package and is perhaps a bit > more plug and play. However, it is larger overall when all the bits > are added than the 420E. > I found the backup from ResMed first class in the early days of > selecting and fitting interfaces. I don’t need that as much as I did > then. > If I had to select either machine as an only machine, I would be > pleased with either. For travel, I certainly like the 420E. If I > were juat starting out and picking one machine, I would probably still > select the Spirit. It’s better integrated and with good control and > monitoring. Here in the UK, the manufacturer has done a really good > job on customer service and backup for practical details like > interface selection

Response:

I’ve been using my ResMed Autoset Spirit autotitrating flow generator for approximately two years and have had very good results with it. For me, it has done exactly what the manufacturers claim as well as what is suggested by clinical studies. I have uncomplicated OSA with no other respiratory or other sleep disorders. Since I am in the UK and using private sector healthcare, diagnosis and consultations are paid for by insurance, but equipment has to be paid for by the patient. For the original choice, I took a lot of care over selection of the type of machine, based on my own research as well as discussion with the specialist. I also looked carefully at manufacturer support of product and patient. For the choice of first machine, ResMed’s Autoset Spirit met all of the criteria and I’ve been very pleased with the choice. In the UK public sector, equipment is supplied and supported via the clinic with what can be quite a variable waiting period. In the private sector, the patient can work directly with the manufacturer for the supply and support of the equipment. ResMed’s office is under an hour from where I live amd they offer equipment supply and support as well as help with mask supply and fitting – it’s professionally organised with qualified nurses on staff. I’m a strong believer in patient involvement in treatment, to the point that I insist on being in the driving seat regarding medical issues. This is not to say that I don’t follow the doctor’s diagnosis, advice and treatment, but at the end of the day, I have more skin in the game than he does so I check out everything for myself as well. Part of this is that I certainly want to monitor effectiveness of treatment for myself, so an important issue was being able to look at what the equipment was doing and the results. PC software for the Spirit is available, and although normally it is used by clinics, the specialist was satisfied that it would be useful for me to be able to able to look at how my treatment was progressing and contact him if needed. The software does allow for machine adjustment of pressure settings that may be dangerous to some patients, so the doctor needed to be satisfied that I understood the issues of that as well as the meaning of the results. All of this has worked really well. I’ve been able to look at the effect of automatic operation over a period of time and to see the variations by sleeping position, alcohol if any, day to day variation an weight. The doctor had also determined early on an appropriate fixed pressure should I have elected to go with a single pressure machine. With his agreement, I have tried periods of that and automatic operation. I’ve found that for me, there is a compliance improvement in autotitration mode compared with fixed pressure of (on average) 45 minutes a day. This was based on periods of two weeks each way, with sleep and mask on times of 6.5 hours and 7.25 hours. Obviously this isn’t a broad scientific study, but it was enough to satisfy me that there is a worthwhile benefit for me at least. The Spirit works well. I quite like the features of automatic stop and start and integrated heated humidifier. The software is easy to use and results are clear to read as long as one understands the meaning of statistical data. However, I do travel a lot, and the machine, with all the bits and pieces fills a fair sized bag. It hasn’t been a big problem, but I felt that I would like to have a backup machine and if possible, something a bit smaller for travel. I also thought that it would be a good idea to choose something for a different vendor to see if there was anything different about the treatment. With all of those criteria in mind, it wasn’t that hard to select the Puritan Bennett 420E as being similar to the ResMed in terms of functionality, but lighter and smaller. I checked with the specialist and he was happy with the idea of going for this as well. I looked through the machine specifications and the associated equipment and was happy with what I found. I thought that it would be useful to write a few notes. Obviously some of this is related to the particular situation of buying directly from the manufacturer and in the UK, but other aspects are fairly generic about the products. – The 420E is certainly smaller and lighter than the Spirit on its own, If I were just doing a one night away trip, I could use the 420E, with a nasal pillow setup like the ResMed Swift, skip the humidifier and have a small and light thing to carry. – I really need to have a heated humidifier because I make regular trips to the Nordic countries and this time of year humidity is very low. Without the heated humidifier, I get quite sore nasal passages. The Spirit has a built in humidifier, powered from the machine itself. For the 420 series there is a humidifier which sits underneath and has a water chamber which slides into the heater. The humidifier piece and main machine still fit into a bag that is smaller than that for the Spirit. However, the 420E humidifier is powered separately with a mains power cord, whereas the Spirit has one cord. With the 420E setup I have a wallwart power supply for the main unit, a power cord for the humidifier and an double outlet adaptor for the two power requirements. THis isn’t a big issue, but it does mean that I have to have a more careful drill when I leave a hotel room in the morning to make sure that all the bits go in the bag. – The 420E humidifier is quite fierce. It makes the water noticably warm even on the lowest setting. On higher settings, it is like a sauna with several ladles of water on the fire. The Spirit has rather more gentle settings which still seem to provide good humidity. – The 420E comes with its own 2m hose with a small pressure sensing tube running inside. The Spirit has a choice of 2m and 3m hoses with a setting on the machine. This means more careful selection of machine position, although with the need for an extension cord anyway, not a big issue. – The 420E is able to tolerate a wider range of interfaces. I’ve stuck to ResMed interfaces on the Spirit, but have found that they all work OK for me on the 420E – i.e. Activa, Mirage Vista and Swift. – The 420E has a little more configurability. The Spirit has settings for minimum and maximum pressure in autotitrating mode together with hose lenght selection and mask type. The Autoset algorithm increases pressure up to 10cm in response to flow limitation and detects and handles apnoea events above that. On the 420E, the changeover point is configurable. I didn’t see a reason to change it. – The Spirit has a ramp feature for fixed pressure and a hold feature at minimum pressure (settling time) for auto mode. Personally, I find these irritating and turned them off. The 420E has similar things, but in auto mode the minimum hold time is 15 mins before the machine switches to fully automatic. I didn’t have a particular issue with this, though. Whereas the Spirit begins data recording immediately, the 420E begins after the 15 minutes. – The automatic start an stop of the Spirit are absent from the 420E. You have to press the start/stop button. I didn’t have a huge issue with this. – I bought the software for the 420E. It’s cheaper then that for the Spirit. The download time to the PC is horrendously slow – can be 20 minutes – whereas the Spirit and its software take under a minute. However the data presentation is a little better on the 420E software. – For me, the behaviour of the two machines in autotitration mode is remarkably similar, measured over several weeks. Although the algorithms may well be different in detail, the pressure behaviour and recorded results are virtually the same for me averaged over the time. There were no surprises of funny peaks etc. in either case. – Both manufacturers have easy access for a UK private patient to buy the equipment and both appear to have good servie departments. I asked service and repair questions of both at different times and was satisfied with the answers. However, I don’t believe that Tyco/Puritan Bennett has gone as far as ResMed in terms of availability of additional services such as mask fitting help etc. It would be difficult to select between the two machines in terms of effectiveness and usability. Both give good reported results for me and the data agrees with that. I like the small size of the 420E, but dislike the collection of bits to complete the setup. However, even with all of this it is smaller and lighter than the Spirit. The Spirit has everything together in one package and is perhaps a bit more plug and play. However, it is larger overall when all the bits are added than the 420E. I found the backup from ResMed first class in the early days of selecting and fitting interfaces. I don’t need that as much as I did then. If I had to select either machine as an only machine, I would be pleased with either. For travel, I certainly like the 420E. If I were juat starting out and picking one machine, I would probably still select the Spirit. It’s better integrated and with good control and monitoring. Here in the UK, the manufacturer has done a really good job on customer service and backup for practical details like interface selection and fitting and I feel that there is a lot of value in that. On the other hand, I don’t think that one would be in trouble for choosing a 420E either as a first and single machine. It also does a good job and is a good choice for travelling even with the less integrated package of bits to make it work. — .andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Response:

On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 11:14:39 GMT, "rob" wrote: >> Andy: >I have used both the Auto set T and the Goodnight 418P for several Years. I >am very knowlegable of the Auto Set T’s Algorithm and have a little >knowledge about the Goodnights Algorithm. I am asumming that the spirt and >goodnigh 420E alogrithm are based on the previous machines Alogorithm.

AIUI, the Autoset T machine had a flow sensor based on a moving paddle connected to a Hall Effect sensor. The Spirit has three pressure sensors – one in the case and two connected to different points in the duct of the machine. Hence from pressure drop along a known path it is possible to deduce flow. THe PB machine has a pressure sensor at the machine and another connected via a small tube running inside the main hose. So the principle used for making the measurement is the same between the two machines. It’s possible that ResMed made some improvements with the Spirit. I had a firmware upgrade for mine which gave more reported data. I also think that it’s possible that if the 418 had the same mechanism as the 420, that it could have done a better job than the Autoset T at detecting more subtle pressure change behaviour. > In >my opinion the Goodnight is very diferent and is definitely superior in some >aspects. With the Goodnight 418P software I can ,on a nightly basis, get >the number of Apneas, Hyponeas, mixed Apneas, and some central apneas. The >central apneas are only a specific type. Hence do not cover all central >apneas.

I am not sure that the inherent algorithm is better between one or the other. For example, I don’t feel any different when using either and the AHI figures are not markedly different when averaged (as one should) over a period of time. >This type of information is useful to me. The Algorithm is also suppose to >have some capability on UAR’s. Does the Goodnight 420 E have this >capability The reason which caused me to switch to another machine is that >418 reports a large number of runs. I do not understand what this >specification means. I think this specification reports a combination of >pressure increase and some of runs may be caused by UAR’s

The reporting between the machines is rather different, with the PB machine’s software providing more statistical analysis. On the other hand, it is not as well implemented in terms of how long it takes to get data and general navigation through its functions as ResMed’s SW. It could be that the machine itself is able to detect a difference in the flow/pressure/time characteristic between various types of apnoea and UARS, but I have not found that the manufacturer makes that claim. I would imagine that they would if it did. The clinical manuals are fairly similar in their notes to the physician. I haven’t read a great deal about UARS (mainly because I don’t have the issue), but a quick look at papers on the subject, e.g. http://www.somnolab.de/pdfs/slpwke98165.pdf suggests that it’s pretty difficult to detect it even using full PSG…… — .andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Response:

Andy Hall wrote: "Andy Hall" wrote in message

Response:

On Sat, 5 Mar 2005 08:48:46 +0100, "Wim Vogelaar" wrote: >"Andy Hall" schreef in bericht >news:e1ch2158bi4fj090suorph49ubm5n28l26@4ax.com… >Thanks Andy for your very helpful information. Perhaps you are also willing >to say something about prices. >Here follows information about prices in The Netherlands. >I payed last month 983 US dollars for my ResMed AutoSet Spirit + ResMed >Mirage Vista Mask + ResMed AutoScan 5.4 software. I bought it at >www.cpapworld.com in California. Distribution costs to The Netherlands via >FedEx: 150 US dollars. Total costs: 1133 US dollars (= 856 Euro). I ordered >it on 2005-02-25 and it was delivered at my home at 2005-02-28.

I think that the US price was pretty fair, and on a direct exchange rate basis, nit very different to what I paid in the UK – maybe 10% which is fairly normal. Presumably the $150 included import VAT? You might want to check into the VAT situation. In the UK, if you have essential medical need (OSA counts for this), you are entitled to VAT exemption. This means that if I buy things here that do carry VAT, if the supplier is organised I can fill in a VAT exemption form and not pay. For an import, I pay the VAT and then can reclaim it at the local Customs and Excise VAT office (Customs runs VAT here). For some bizarre reason, medical equipment, even if only available on prescription, does carry VAT and one has to do this exemption or reclaim thing. I am not sure whether all of this originates from an EU Directive or whether it is still a per country thing, but it would be worth your while to make enquiries. >Here in the Netherlands the price of CPAP stuff is in the range of 2500 Euro >to 4000 Euro (=3311 US dollar to 5298 US dollar).

That’s outrageous…. I have done business in the Netherlands for many years (not in the medical area) and have noticed that is is quite common to have list prices that are a long way above the list prices in surrounding countries. It was once explained to me that this is partly a cultural thing because Dutch people love to negotiate How true that is, I don’t know……. >A few days ago I bought here in The Netherlands the ResMed Ultra Mirage Full >Face Mask for 320 Euro (= 424 US dollar). >On http://www.cpap.net/manufacturers_cpaps/resmed/UltraMirageMask.htm the >price is: 98 US dollar!!!

This is at least twice the UK price. Have you looked at Belgium and Germany, or possibly France? I would expect prices in Germany to be a bit high but I would have thought Belgium and France could be reasonable. >Of course I have now a problem when there would be a defect in my machine. >But seen the enormous differences in prices I do possibly better throwing >away my old apparatus in case it would fail and buy a new one. For repair >you possibly have to wait more days than awaiting the delivery of a new one >(3 days).

This is the problem. I wouldn’t have a problem buying masks etc. from the U.S. because ultimately they are disposable items anyway. I don’t think I’d risk a flow generator unless I could be certain that I could get local service. I would expect to be able to get that on a paid basis, but I think that getting any warranty cover would be difficult. THe repair factor was one reason for getting a second machine. Although I can go to ResMed eaily and get a repair done (probably while I wait), it’s basically most of a day gone and if I am going on a business trip I really want to have an alternative packed and ready to go at short notice. — .andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Response:

"Andy Hall" schreef in bericht news:e1ch2158bi4fj090suorph49ubm5n28l26@4ax.com… Thanks Andy for your very helpful information. Perhaps you are also willing to say something about prices. Here follows information about prices in The Netherlands. I payed last month 983 US dollars for my ResMed AutoSet Spirit + ResMed Mirage Vista Mask + ResMed AutoScan 5.4 software. I bought it at www.cpapworld.com in California. Distribution costs to The Netherlands via FedEx: 150 US dollars. Total costs: 1133 US dollars (= 856 Euro). I ordered it on 2005-02-25 and it was delivered at my home at 2005-02-28. Here in the Netherlands the price of CPAP stuff is in the range of 2500 Euro to 4000 Euro (=3311 US dollar to 5298 US dollar). A few days ago I bought here in The Netherlands the ResMed Ultra Mirage Full Face Mask for 320 Euro (= 424 US dollar). On http://www.cpap.net/manufacturers_cpaps/resmed/UltraMirageMask.htm the price is: 98 US dollar!!! Of course I have now a problem when there would be a defect in my machine. But seen the enormous differences in prices I do possibly better throwing away my old apparatus in case it would fail and buy a new one. For repair you possibly have to wait more days than awaiting the delivery of a new one (3 days). Wim Vogelaar, http://home.wanadoo.nl/w.h.vogelaar/marfan/apnea/

Response:

I never sleep

admin — Fri, 21 Nov 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I don

Sleep disorder questions

admin — Thu, 16 Jan 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Hello – For the past few years I’ve had problems sleeping. I can go to sleep fine, but wake up within 4-6 hours, feeling wide awake. Sometimes if I lie quietly, hoping to doze back off, I’ll get hungry. I’ll feel completely alert and ready to start the day until perhaps an hour after what should be 8 hours sleep, then I’ll feel exhausted until sundown, when I start feeling a bit better. According to my bed partner, I snore, but not in the classical apnea way, and not when I sleep on my side, and I don’t twitch or thrash. Does this sound familiar to anyone, or do I have my own personal wierd form of insomnia? I’ve been handling this with OTC stuff, without much success, and in the past I’ve tried Trazodone, which I eventually developed enough of a tolerance to that I couldn’t take enough to stay asleep without being a zombie the whole rest of the day. I went for an annual physical, and got a prescription for Elavil, 25mg, which I’m splitting in two. If I take this about 12 hours before I want to get up (that would be 7pm for me), I’m not totally knackered in the morning. I still wake up a few times during the night, but it’s possible to get back to sleep, and I feel rested. Should I be increasing the dosage (doc said it was okay to do that, up to 25), if I’m not sleeping through, or should I stick with what I’m taking as long as I feel rested in the morning? I’ve also got a referral to the sleep disorders clinic at OHSU for evaluation, but that isn’t until March. I’m hoping by then I’ll be settled in with the Elavil. Should I see the sleep specialist (most likely this will be a psychiatrist) if I’m doing well on the Elavil? If a sleep study is ordered, should I stop taking the Elavil for it, and how much in advance should I do that? I know this is a lot of questions, thanks for listening. Nancy

Response:

In article , "Nancy Wolfe" wrote: > I’ve also got a referral to the sleep disorders clinic at OHSU for > evaluation, but that isn’t until March. I’m hoping by then I’ll be settled > in with the Elavil. Should I see the sleep specialist (most likely this > will be a psychiatrist) if I’m doing well on the Elavil? If a sleep study > is ordered, should I stop taking the Elavil for it, and how much in advance > should I do that?

A sleep specialist shouldn’t be a psychiatrist. That would just be…odd. If they order a sleep study, ask what to do about the Elavil. My own experience with it suggests you may need to be off it 2-3 days if you’re supposed to not take it. I used to take a half-dose every other day for sleep. — _Deirdre http://deirdre.net "Ideally pacing should look like the stock market for the year 1999, up and up and up, but with lots of little dips downwards…." – Wen Spencer on plotting a novel

Response:

Deirdre Saoirse Moen wrote: > In article , "Nancy Wolfe" > wrote: > > I’ve also got a referral to the sleep disorders clinic at OHSU for > > evaluation, but that isn’t until March. I’m hoping by then I’ll be settled > > in with the Elavil. Should I see the sleep specialist (most likely this > > will be a psychiatrist) if I’m doing well on the Elavil? If a sleep study > > is ordered, should I stop taking the Elavil for it, and how much in advance > > should I do that? > A sleep specialist shouldn’t be a psychiatrist. That would just be…odd.

Definitely incorrect! There aren’t as many of them in SOCAL as neurologist and pulmonologists, but there are a number of diplomated psychiatrists. You can read about psychiatrist and psycholosits at my sleep lab at pacificsleepservices.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> If they order a sleep study, ask what to do about the Elavil. My own > experience with it suggests you may need to be off it 2-3 days if you’re > supposed to not take it. I used to take a half-dose every other day for > sleep. > — > _Deirdre http://deirdre.net > "Ideally pacing should look like the stock market for the year 1999, up > and up and up, but with lots of little dips downwards…." > – Wen Spencer on plotting a novel

Response:

In article <3E2788CF.9EB6E…@socal.nospam.com>, NormC wrote: > Definitely incorrect! There aren’t as many of them in SOCAL as > neurologist and pulmonologists, but there are a number of > diplomated psychiatrists.

OK, I’m just wrong. I’m willing to accept that. It still strikes me as odd. — _Deirdre http://deirdre.net "Ideally pacing should look like the stock market for the year 1999, up and up and up, but with lots of little dips downwards…." – Wen Spencer on plotting a novel

Response:

On Fri, 17 Jan 2003 04:39:53 GMT, NormC wrote: >Deirdre Saoirse Moen wrote: >> A sleep specialist shouldn’t be a psychiatrist. That would just be…odd.

Patients who don’t sleep well may very well intake with complaints that would be in the realm of psychiatry (functional CNS disorders). >Definitely incorrect! There aren’t as many of them in SOCAL as neurologist and >pulmonologists, but there are a number of diplomated psychiatrists.

One advantage to sleep medicine: there basically aren’t emergent crises in the middle of the night. Therefore, the psychiatrist who is a sleep specialist sleeps better than the psychiatrist who is a psychiatrist. Of course, the latter may very well order "Give ‘em two Haldol and I’ll see ‘em in the morning."

Response:

Deirdre Saoirse Moen wrote: > In article <3E2788CF.9EB6E…@socal.nospam.com>, NormC > wrote: > > Definitely incorrect! There aren’t as many of them in SOCAL as > > neurologist and pulmonologists, but there are a number of > > diplomated psychiatrists. > OK, I’m just wrong. I’m willing to accept that. > It still strikes me as odd. > — > _Deirdre http://deirdre.net

Probably because many psychiatrists are odd. Regards Lee in Toronto —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Hi folks- Actually my psychiatrist kept medicating me for depression which was actually accurate and appropriate. But I NEVER felt rested (to put it mildly!). Only after a number of years did he finally suspect I might have OSA and referred me for testing. I was told I have the worst case of sleep apnea in a woman my age (45 at the time) that they’d ever seen. Now the kicker: My psychiatrist headed a sleep disorder clinic for three years after medical school!!! His knowledge of psych meds and how to use them effectively I trust completely. His competence in even suspecting sleep apnea- well that’s a whole different story! Susan "Charlie Perrin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Fri, 17 Jan 2003 04:39:53 GMT, NormC > wrote: > >Deirdre Saoirse Moen wrote: > >> A sleep specialist shouldn’t be a psychiatrist. That would just be…odd. > Patients who don’t sleep well may very well intake with complaints > that would be in the realm of psychiatry (functional CNS disorders). > >Definitely incorrect! There aren’t as many of them in SOCAL as neurologist and > >pulmonologists, but there are a number of diplomated psychiatrists. > One advantage to sleep medicine: there basically aren’t emergent > crises in the middle of the night. Therefore, the psychiatrist who is > a sleep specialist sleeps better than the psychiatrist who is a > psychiatrist. > Of course, the latter may very well order "Give ‘em two Haldol and > I’ll see ‘em in the morning."

Response:

Over 80 sleep disorders, when I got back to Stanford you would think they would find mine or a new one

admin — Sun, 01 Dec 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I would think it would be a challenge to find out what my problem is as I have had 7 sleep studies, 2 at Stanford and 5 at Sequoia. My doctor at Stanford does not know what to do as he has only seen a few cases like mine. This time I go to Stanford I will have to be vey pushy. Since it is a training facility most of the time I have seen doctors in training in sleep disorders and the senior doctors came in, I have seen 3 or 4 of them and they have never looked at all of my sleep studies and tried to be helpful. They more or less said I was fatigued. Dr. Dement who founded the clinic says if a person says they are tired they usually have a sleep problem. Since I have had this problem for over 4 years and not focused on solely the fragmentation since I have had other sleep disorders go and come, alveolar hypoventilation, alpha intrusion, sleep apnea but the fragmentation is the single item in the last 6 studies and has gotten worse. These are called unknown arousals as they are not respiratory but changes in stages of sleep. I had the UAR test and it was negative and the unknown arousals were there. I might have to beg Dr. Dement to see if he will help me if Stanford fails me this time.

Response:

Posted and emailed. Patrick – Didn’t you say you were going to see a neurologist? Did you? Was he a certified sleep doc? No help? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Patrick Richards wrote: > I would think it would be a challenge to find out what my problem is as I > have had 7 sleep studies, 2 at Stanford and 5 at Sequoia. My doctor at > Stanford does not know what to do as he has only seen a few cases like mine. > This time I go to Stanford I will have to be vey pushy. Since it is a > training facility most of the time I have seen doctors in training in sleep > disorders and the senior doctors came in, I have seen 3 or 4 of them and > they have never looked at all of my sleep studies and tried to be helpful. > They more or less said I was fatigued. Dr. Dement who founded the clinic > says if a person says they are tired they usually have a sleep problem. > Since I have had this problem for over 4 years and not focused on solely the > fragmentation since I have had other sleep disorders go and come, alveolar > hypoventilation, alpha intrusion, sleep apnea but the fragmentation is the > single item in the last 6 studies and has gotten worse. These are called > unknown arousals as they are not respiratory but changes in stages of sleep. > I had the UAR test and it was negative and the unknown arousals were there. > I might have to beg Dr. Dement to see if he will help me if Stanford fails > me this time.

Response:

I saw a neuroligist and he was not sleep certified. He did a head scan but I am not sure how much that rules out. Being pushy at Stanford and maybe tried and beg Dr. Dement to help me. "NormC" wrote in message

news:3DEA4DA5.9902F234@socal.rr.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Posted and emailed. > Patrick – Didn’t you say you were going to see a neurologist? Did you? Was > he a certified sleep doc? No help? > Patrick Richards wrote: > > I would think it would be a challenge to find out what my problem is as I > > have had 7 sleep studies, 2 at Stanford and 5 at Sequoia. My doctor at > > Stanford does not know what to do as he has only seen a few cases like mine. > > This time I go to Stanford I will have to be vey pushy. Since it is a > > training facility most of the time I have seen doctors in training in sleep > > disorders and the senior doctors came in, I have seen 3 or 4 of them and > > they have never looked at all of my sleep studies and tried to be helpful. > > They more or less said I was fatigued. Dr. Dement who founded the clinic > > says if a person says they are tired they usually have a sleep problem. > > Since I have had this problem for over 4 years and not focused on solely the > > fragmentation since I have had other sleep disorders go and come, alveolar > > hypoventilation, alpha intrusion, sleep apnea but the fragmentation is the > > single item in the last 6 studies and has gotten worse. These are called > > unknown arousals as they are not respiratory but changes in stages of sleep. > > I had the UAR test and it was negative and the unknown arousals were there. > > I might have to beg Dr. Dement to see if he will help me if Stanford fails > > me this time.

Response:

Patrick, I had two studies done at Stanford last Oct. my diagnostic and my titration. The cpap treatment wasn’t helping me and the the student doctor I was seeing was not helpful and condescending to boot. He was very opposed to my trying an autopap and he said that no one at Stanford uses them. I kept taking my mask off in the middle of the night while I was asleep. In Sept. I found a board certified sleep doctor (Neurologist). Her name is Joanna Cooper and she is at the Sleep Disorders Center in Pinole. She often uses the Autopap machine and finds that many patients sleep better with them. She let me do a two week trial with an Autoset T and a month long trial with the Goodnight 418P. I found that my pressure needs varied a lot during the night. I also did another sleep study at the Pinole center. At Stanford they set my pressure at 9 on a cpap. I found through the autopap trials and the recent sleep study that while I need a 9 pressure 75% of the night, my pressure needs go all the way up to 14. Dr. Cooper prescribed the autopap for me and I got the 418P last week and I am sleeping through the night now and feel like I’ve finally have the right treatment. It sounds like what you are dealing with may be very different from what I’m dealing with. I did want to let you know that there is a board certified Neurologist in the area. I am very pleased with the treatment that I’ve received from her. The number of the Sleep Disorders Center in Pinole is 510-741-2525. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Patrick Richards" wrote in message … > I would think it would be a challenge to find out what my problem is as I > have had 7 sleep studies, 2 at Stanford and 5 at Sequoia. My doctor at > Stanford does not know what to do as he has only seen a few cases like mine. > This time I go to Stanford I will have to be vey pushy. Since it is a > training facility most of the time I have seen doctors in training in sleep > disorders and the senior doctors came in, I have seen 3 or 4 of them and > they have never looked at all of my sleep studies and tried to be helpful. > They more or less said I was fatigued. Dr. Dement who founded the clinic > says if a person says they are tired they usually have a sleep problem. > Since I have had this problem for over 4 years and not focused on solely the > fragmentation since I have had other sleep disorders go and come, alveolar > hypoventilation, alpha intrusion, sleep apnea but the fragmentation is the > single item in the last 6 studies and has gotten worse. These are called > unknown arousals as they are not respiratory but changes in stages of sleep. > I had the UAR test and it was negative and the unknown arousals were there. > I might have to beg Dr. Dement to see if he will help me if Stanford fails > me this time.

Response:

I agree that they are very condeescending there and if this does not turn out I probably will sue for malpractice. Since I have been there so many times and they have not tried to really treat my problem which is a rare unknown arousals. If they want to get paid then they must do the work and they have not. This is ruining my life and if I have to sue, if I can, I will. They don’t want to spent much times with patients and probably only really work with the rich or famous. Personally I like my old sleep lab but they do not know the solution to my problem. Apnea is not my problem but the unknown arousals. Since there are over 80 sleep disorders I have something that is disturbing my sleep and it would seem to me if a doctor does not wish to do his duty as a doctor he must pay for that. Any way thanks for the information. I have another doctor in mind (who is qualified but I don’t know if he see patients any more) after I see Stanford. "Pamela" wrote in message

news:dbfc84b.0212012329.35985b55@posting.google.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Patrick, > I had two studies done at Stanford last Oct. my diagnostic and my > titration. The cpap treatment wasn’t helping me and the the student > doctor I was seeing was not helpful and condescending to boot. He was > very opposed to my trying an autopap and he said that no one at > Stanford uses them. I kept taking my mask off in the middle of the > night while I was asleep. > In Sept. I found a board certified sleep doctor (Neurologist). Her > name is Joanna Cooper and she is at the Sleep Disorders Center in > Pinole. She often uses the Autopap machine and finds that many > patients sleep better with them. She let me do a two week trial with > an Autoset T and a month long trial with the Goodnight 418P. I found > that my pressure needs varied a lot during the night. I also did > another sleep study at the Pinole center. At Stanford they set my > pressure at 9 on a cpap. I found through the autopap trials and the > recent sleep study that while I need a 9 pressure 75% of the night, my > pressure needs go all the way up to 14. Dr. Cooper prescribed the > autopap for me and I got the 418P last week and I am sleeping through > the night now and feel like I’ve finally have the right treatment. > It sounds like what you are dealing with may be very different from > what I’m dealing with. I did want to let you know that there is a > board certified Neurologist in the area. I am very pleased with the > treatment that I’ve received from her. The number of the Sleep > Disorders Center in Pinole is 510-741-2525. > "Patrick Richards" wrote in message

… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > I would think it would be a challenge to find out what my problem is as I > > have had 7 sleep studies, 2 at Stanford and 5 at Sequoia. My doctor at > > Stanford does not know what to do as he has only seen a few cases like mine. > > This time I go to Stanford I will have to be vey pushy. Since it is a > > training facility most of the time I have seen doctors in training in sleep > > disorders and the senior doctors came in, I have seen 3 or 4 of them and > > they have never looked at all of my sleep studies and tried to be helpful. > > They more or less said I was fatigued. Dr. Dement who founded the clinic > > says if a person says they are tired they usually have a sleep problem. > > Since I have had this problem for over 4 years and not focused on solely the > > fragmentation since I have had other sleep disorders go and come, alveolar > > hypoventilation, alpha intrusion, sleep apnea but the fragmentation is the > > single item in the last 6 studies and has gotten worse. These are called > > unknown arousals as they are not respiratory but changes in stages of sleep. > > I had the UAR test and it was negative and the unknown arousals were there. > > I might have to beg Dr. Dement to see if he will help me if Stanford fails > > me this time.

Response:

Probably what I will do depending on what they do and I have to be careful that they don’t screw up my disability which is another concern of mine. My pulomonary doctor who found my emphysema has a office next to Dr. Dement so I might ask her to ask him to help me as I know my problem is solveable or at least we can find out what it is but it will take work and I need a doctor who can do that. "NormC" wrote in message

news:3DEC0B3F.C0202276@socal.rr.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> From my expieriences at UCLA, for many different medical problems, I have > become cautious about what I expect from a ‘teaching hospital’. > It’s one thing to have a ‘common problem’ and go to a teaching hospital, but > quite another to have something unusual and do so. > I even have some reservations about seeing an M.D., in private practice, who > is a medical school professor, for anything unusual. My reason for this is > that I would rather see a doctor who sees patients all day every day, not just > in-between classes. > Patrick Richards wrote: > > I agree that they are very condeescending there and if this does not turn > > out I probably will sue for malpractice. Since I have been there so many > > times and they have not tried to really treat my problem which is a rare > > unknown arousals. > > If they want to get paid then they must do the work and they have not. This > > is ruining my life and if I have to sue, if I can, I will. > > They don’t want to spent much times with patients and probably only really > > work with the rich or famous. Personally I like my old sleep lab but they > > do not know the solution to my problem. > > Apnea is not my problem but the unknown arousals. Since there are over 80 > > sleep disorders I have something that is disturbing my sleep and it would > > seem to me if a doctor does not wish to do his duty as a doctor he must pay > > for that. > > Any way thanks for the information. I have another doctor in mind (who is > > qualified but I don’t know if he see patients any more) after I see > > Stanford. > > "Pamela" wrote in message > > news:dbfc84b.0212012329.35985b55@posting.google.com… > > > Patrick, > > > I had two studies done at Stanford last Oct. my diagnostic and my > > > titration. The cpap treatment wasn’t helping me and the the student > > > doctor I was seeing was not helpful and condescending to boot. He was > > > very opposed to my trying an autopap and he said that no one at > > > Stanford uses them. I kept taking my mask off in the middle of the > > > night while I was asleep. > > > In Sept. I found a board certified sleep doctor (Neurologist). Her > > > name is Joanna Cooper and she is at the Sleep Disorders Center in > > > Pinole. She often uses the Autopap machine and finds that many > > > patients sleep better with them. She let me do a two week trial with > > > an Autoset T and a month long trial with the Goodnight 418P. I found > > > that my pressure needs varied a lot during the night. I also did > > > another sleep study at the Pinole center. At Stanford they set my > > > pressure at 9 on a cpap. I found through the autopap trials and the > > > recent sleep study that while I need a 9 pressure 75% of the night, my > > > pressure needs go all the way up to 14. Dr. Cooper prescribed the > > > autopap for me and I got the 418P last week and I am sleeping through > > > the night now and feel like I’ve finally have the right treatment. > > > It sounds like what you are dealing with may be very different from > > > what I’m dealing with. I did want to let you know that there is a > > > board certified Neurologist in the area. I am very pleased with the > > > treatment that I’ve received from her. The number of the Sleep > > > Disorders Center in Pinole is 510-741-2525. > > > "Patrick Richards" wrote in message > > … > > > > I would think it would be a challenge to find out what my problem is as > > I > > > > have had 7 sleep studies, 2 at Stanford and 5 at Sequoia. My doctor at > > > > Stanford does not know what to do as he has only seen a few cases like > > mine. > > > > This time I go to Stanford I will have to be vey pushy. Since it is a > > > > training facility most of the time I have seen doctors in training in > > sleep > > > > disorders and the senior doctors came in, I have seen 3 or 4 of them and > > > > they have never looked at all of my sleep studies and tried to be > > helpful. > > > > They more or less said I was fatigued. Dr. Dement who founded the > > clinic > > > > says if a person says they are tired they usually have a sleep problem. > > > > Since I have had this problem for over 4 years and not focused on solely > > the > > > > fragmentation since I have had other sleep disorders go and come, > > alveolar > > > > hypoventilation, alpha intrusion, sleep apnea but the fragmentation is > > the > > > > single item in the last 6 studies and has gotten worse. These are > > called > > > > unknown arousals as they are not respiratory but changes in stages of > > sleep. > > > > I had the UAR test and it was negative and the unknown arousals were > > there. > > > > I might have to beg Dr. Dement to see if he will help me if Stanford > > fails > > > > me this time.

Response:

From my expieriences at UCLA, for many different medical problems, I have become cautious about what I expect from a ‘teaching hospital’. It’s one thing to have a ‘common problem’ and go to a teaching hospital, but quite another to have something unusual and do so. I even have some reservations about seeing an M.D., in private practice, who is a medical school professor, for anything unusual. My reason for this is that I would rather see a doctor who sees patients all day every day, not just in-between classes. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Patrick Richards wrote: > I agree that they are very condeescending there and if this does not turn > out I probably will sue for malpractice. Since I have been there so many > times and they have not tried to really treat my problem which is a rare > unknown arousals. > If they want to get paid then they must do the work and they have not. This > is ruining my life and if I have to sue, if I can, I will. > They don’t want to spent much times with patients and probably only really > work with the rich or famous. Personally I like my old sleep lab but they > do not know the solution to my problem. > Apnea is not my problem but the unknown arousals. Since there are over 80 > sleep disorders I have something that is disturbing my sleep and it would > seem to me if a doctor does not wish to do his duty as a doctor he must pay > for that. > Any way thanks for the information. I have another doctor in mind (who is > qualified but I don’t know if he see patients any more) after I see > Stanford. > "Pamela" wrote in message > news:dbfc84b.0212012329.35985b55@posting.google.com… > > Patrick, > > I had two studies done at Stanford last Oct. my diagnostic and my > > titration. The cpap treatment wasn’t helping me and the the student > > doctor I was seeing was not helpful and condescending to boot. He was > > very opposed to my trying an autopap and he said that no one at > > Stanford uses them. I kept taking my mask off in the middle of the > > night while I was asleep. > > In Sept. I found a board certified sleep doctor (Neurologist). Her > > name is Joanna Cooper and she is at the Sleep Disorders Center in > > Pinole. She often uses the Autopap machine and finds that many > > patients sleep better with them. She let me do a two week trial with > > an Autoset T and a month long trial with the Goodnight 418P. I found > > that my pressure needs varied a lot during the night. I also did > > another sleep study at the Pinole center. At Stanford they set my > > pressure at 9 on a cpap. I found through the autopap trials and the > > recent sleep study that while I need a 9 pressure 75% of the night, my > > pressure needs go all the way up to 14. Dr. Cooper prescribed the > > autopap for me and I got the 418P last week and I am sleeping through > > the night now and feel like I’ve finally have the right treatment. > > It sounds like what you are dealing with may be very different from > > what I’m dealing with. I did want to let you know that there is a > > board certified Neurologist in the area. I am very pleased with the > > treatment that I’ve received from her. The number of the Sleep > > Disorders Center in Pinole is 510-741-2525. > > "Patrick Richards" wrote in message > … > > > I would think it would be a challenge to find out what my problem is as > I > > > have had 7 sleep studies, 2 at Stanford and 5 at Sequoia. My doctor at > > > Stanford does not know what to do as he has only seen a few cases like > mine. > > > This time I go to Stanford I will have to be vey pushy. Since it is a > > > training facility most of the time I have seen doctors in training in > sleep > > > disorders and the senior doctors came in, I have seen 3 or 4 of them and > > > they have never looked at all of my sleep studies and tried to be > helpful. > > > They more or less said I was fatigued. Dr. Dement who founded the > clinic > > > says if a person says they are tired they usually have a sleep problem. > > > Since I have had this problem for over 4 years and not focused on solely > the > > > fragmentation since I have had other sleep disorders go and come, > alveolar > > > hypoventilation, alpha intrusion, sleep apnea but the fragmentation is > the > > > single item in the last 6 studies and has gotten worse. These are > called > > > unknown arousals as they are not respiratory but changes in stages of > sleep. > > > I had the UAR test and it was negative and the unknown arousals were > there. > > > I might have to beg Dr. Dement to see if he will help me if Stanford > fails > > > me this time.

Response:

Trazedone

admin — Tue, 23 Jul 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Anyone here have any insights or experience with Trazedone. My sleep doc perscribed it. Start at 50mg and slowly build up to 200mg. Any knowledge of it helping out with Central events? Dennis

Response:

"Dennis White" wrote in message

news:_Ha%8.101403$Wt3.89129@rwcrnsc53… > Anyone here have any insights or experience with Trazedone. My sleep doc > perscribed it. Start at 50mg and slowly build up to 200mg. Any knowledge > of it helping out with Central events? > Dennis

I presently take 2 50 mg pills at bedtime and have had no side effects whatsoever. However, that does not mean that you will have the same benefit. Just as taking a pain reliever, some for headaches and some for general pain, we find that not all brands are effective. Since I have been on the trazadone and my CPAP I now sleep all night long – uninterrupted!

Response:

Your doc put you on Trazadone for sleep????????? You have Central Apnea????????? Trazadone is a central nervous system depressant. Why would he want to depress your nervous system further when you have CSA?? Is this doc your sleep doc that Rx’d this??? SCAREY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! On Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:01:14 GMT, "Dennis White" wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Anyone here have any insights or experience with Trazedone. My sleep doc >perscribed it. Start at 50mg and slowly build up to 200mg. Any knowledge >of it helping out with Central events? >Dennis

Response:

wrote in message

news:3d3f4c0b.117299037@news.frontiernet.net… > Your doc put you on Trazadone for sleep????????? > You have Central Apnea????????? > Trazadone is a central nervous system depressant. Why would he want > to depress your nervous system further when you have CSA?? > Is this doc your sleep doc that Rx’d this??? > SCAREY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, indeed, my sleep doctor put me on this medication. After doing some investigation I find that a number of patients around the country are on this therapy. I am going to follow my docs advice, since he works at one of the best sleep clinics in the country, and I have had good results so far. I know that some months ago my p-doc wanted me to try Topamax, and I was frightened of using it…but I also see that many sleep deprived patients are using that, too. As to Trazedone being a CNS depressant…well, I’m not quite sure about that. I know that it was originally used as an anti-seizure medication. I am confident that my doc knows what he’s doing. He’s a specialist, the entire clinic treats nothing but sleep disorders, and until I find out otherwise (like dying in the middle of the night) I’ll use it. I am so desperate for sleep that nothing scares me anymore. Dennis

Response:

On Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:38:46 GMT, "Dennis White" wrote: >As to Trazedone being a CNS depressant…well, I’m not >quite sure about that. I know that it was originally used as an >anti-seizure medication.

Trazodone: "antidepressant." It is one of the most sedating antidepressants (to the point it usually gets used for the side effect). — Visit Charlie’s Sneaker Pages: http://sneakers.pair.com/

Response:

"Charles L. Perrin" wrote in message news:j0j1kuc5igv37mge9ianuub11pqg6sfo1c@4ax.com… > On Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:38:46 GMT, "Dennis White" > wrote: > >As to Trazedone being a CNS depressant…well, I’m not > >quite sure about that. I know that it was originally used as an > >anti-seizure medication. > Trazodone: "antidepressant." > It is one of the most sedating antidepressants (to the point it > usually gets used for the side effect). > — > Visit Charlie’s Sneaker Pages: > http://sneakers.pair.com/

Charlie, I don’t understand what you are saying. I DO understand that Trazadone is used as an anti-depressant, and also prescribed to people with mild insomnia. Do you think it may be harmful? Can you please rephrase, and add a bit of insight? Dennis

Response:

Pets and sleep problems

admin — Thu, 21 Mar 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Well, *grin* in my opinion (which I’m currently modifying as I type) you’re not a mother to a bare kitten but you are a "mother" of Soncek. And while I’m here, it’s not necessarily maternal instincts, but paternal as well. Regardless the role, and the part I’m modifying, you don’t have to be a mother, only have a dependent living with you that you care deeply for and those instincts kick in. Be it child, animal, or in some cases elderly parent. Grace

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m not a mother, but when Soncek threw up at 5 am, I was wide awake in no time at all (it was the regurgitation thing, nothing serious, he was probably stressed out because of the d*mn firecrackers around New Year’s Eve). Now I can sleep more soundly because I know that if something is wrong with Soncek I am sure to wake up really quickly. Soncek doesn’t sleep on my bed (even though I’d like him to), he sleeps on his chair near my bed. But if I wake up or can’t go to sleep at night (I have frequent bouts of insomnia), he comes and lies on my tummy and soothingly purrs for me, he is just wonderful that way. Good night everyone — Polonca & Soncek Yes, yes, oh yes I agree with this opinion!! As most know, Mutt had severe ligament trauma to her back leg last summer. She had surgery. She’s not able to jump certain jumps too well. She can leap, but a straight jump isn’t easy. From the floor to the mattress has been a very difficult jump for her. And I don’t know if it’s because I’m a mother, or not. Normally, when a mother has a newborn in the house, she’s attuned to every change of breath that the baby makes in his/her crib, every whimper, every movement. It’s part of what lets us wake up out of a deep sleep after a 45 minute snooze just to do it all over again.

Response:

On the counter side of this, I can’t actually fall asleep unless HRFL is curled up on my legs. That’s why I sleep so badly when I got to Belize for short trips. If HRFL (or even Robbie) is curled up next to me, I fall asleep instantly – If they are not, I fidget until they come to bed. Helen M — Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server – http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Response:

I’m the same way. Mutt sometimes jumps in bed but doesn’t get close to me, I’ll deviously touch her with a toe and after her snarling she’ll move to where my feet can’t touch her… around the rump and back area, pressed tight She helps an anormous amount when DH is out of town. I’ve a very jittery person when he’s gone and it helps to have a peaceful snoring dog beside me when I think I hear things that go bump. I’ll never have an attack/guard dog, but for as long as he goes OOT I believe I’ll always have a loving family protective dog in the house at night.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On the counter side of this, I can’t actually fall asleep unless HRFL is curled up on my legs. That’s why I sleep so badly when I got to Belize for short trips. If HRFL (or even Robbie) is curled up next to me, I fall asleep instantly – If they are not, I fidget until they come to bed. Helen M — Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server – http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Response:

Me too! I never sleep well on our trips, and never sleep well at home either unless Vino is in the bed with me. I just toss and turn until he comes in, usually about 10-30 min after I turn the lights out. — Britta Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on Vino and "friends" album

Response:

I usually have at least 2 cats on the bed and maybe one on the perch or chair. Then they join me once I get in bed. But sometimes they are somewhere else in the house and I will call them as I swing into bed. I relax as they get into their respective places, sometimes with a snarl or a whap at someone trying to steal the premier spot at my belly. I drift off to sleep with all this normality. But if one doesn’t come, my subconcious knows it and after a certain amount of time, I will suddenly bolt upright,,"Where’s my cat?" Then I get up and go looking until I find the wayward one. Then we can settle down together. Last fall after a blizzard I didn’t make it home and had to spend the night in a motel. I felt so lonely and couldn’t sleep soundly. I catnapped all night with wakeful periods watching muted tv. It was the longest night. The next night at home all the cats piled against me so I couldn’t move. I think they were trying to make sure I didn’t leave them alone again. I slept soundly and peacefully and so happy. CATherine

Response:

Awww, they were missing you just as much as you missed them. I remember you posting about the blizzard and am so happy you made it home safely (even if you had to wait a day to do so). Best wishes that no more blizzards come your way and you have to be separated from your loving kitties, — Polonca & Soncek

Response:

I’m exactly the same, which is why I was so tired all last week while away from home. Just couldn’t get a full night’s sleep without the cats. Usually Nikki comes to bed with me in the evening. Frank sleeps on a chair, but sometime during the night he gets into bed. Then Nikki leaves, and it’s only Frank in bed in the morning. But last night, our first night together since I went abroad, they both came to bed with me in the evening, and stayed until morning. Nice! I think they missed me. — Marina

Response:

Of course they missed you. They missed you even more than we did here at rpca. — Polonca thinking that Soncek might miss her also if she went away for more than a day & Soncek who knows that Polonca will miss him more than he will miss her

Response:

Deep within the Vaults, the silver kitty brushes dust from a post 21:31:44 -0600 and contemplates it at length before replying: (I’m catching up on VERY old messages…) In saying that, Mutt’s appearance on the side of our bed wakes me out of a sound sleep. Her collar tags jingle, she hops up on her back legs and her front paws are on the mattress. Three and four times a night this can go on. I wake up each and every single time because I know how difficult it would be for her to get back in bed without my help. Not to mention the vet has requested I let her jump as little as possible due to her surgery procedure. *grin* It’s like spending the next 6+ years with a newborn LOL Grace who is looking for a ladder of sorts for Mutt

Did you ever find Mutt an easy way to get up to the bed? What about just putting a footstool down by the base where you won’t trip over it. Would that give her enough lift? She could use it as a step so she only had to make jumps half as high and you could all get some rest! [huggles] — Karen AKA Kajikit You can take the dragon out of Alfandra, but you can never take Alfandra out of the dragon (or the Kitty)… Come and visit my part of the web: Kajikit’s Corner: http://Kajikit.netfirms.com/ Aussie Support Mailing List: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AussieSupport Allergyfree Eating Recipe Swap: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Allergyfree_Eating Love and huggles to all!

Response:

ROFLOL! Really sorry about your pains, John, but can’t help laughing. And I agree, I’d still want Soncek to sleep with me (he doesn’t). Best wishes, — Polonca & Soncek

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Duh. Pretty obvious to me. Maya must be petted before going to bed at least 10 to 15 minutes a night. Saturday she decided at 5:25 AM I should let her outside so she punched me on the nose. (I am still gaga over the effrontery of a 10 pound cat punching a 200 pound man and knowing she could get away with it) Tuesday I had to lock her out of the bedroom. She was so aggressively chasing the bed mice she actually scratched me through a comforter. When she pounced on them from a chest of drawers it was too much and out she went. But I still love that she sleeps with me. If You’re Dog Tired, Your Dog May Be Guilty By Jeanie Davis WebMD Medical News Reviewed By Charlotte Grayson advertisement

Response:

Duh. Pretty obvious to me. Maya must be petted before going to bed at least 10 to 15 minutes a night. Saturday she decided at 5:25 AM I should let her outside so she punched me on the nose. (I am still gaga over the effrontery of a 10 pound cat punching a 200 pound man and knowing she could get away with it) Tuesday I had to lock her out of the bedroom. She was so aggressively chasing the bed mice she actually scratched me through a comforter. When she pounced on them from a chest of drawers it was too much and out she went. But I still love that she sleeps with me.

When Melisande decides to chase after Patches in the middle of the night, she takes a "shortcut" over the bed and across my stomach (sometimes several times in a row). If the first time doesn’t get me fully awake, the third or fourth is guaranteed to! (She only weighs a "normal" amount for an adult cat so I guess I should be glad they don’t don’t reverse the order – Patches weighs between sixteen and nineteen pounds.) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If You’re Dog Tired, Your Dog May Be Guilty By Jeanie Davis WebMD Medical News Reviewed By Charlotte Grayson advertisement Email to a friend Printer-friendly version Feb. 21, 2002 — Got a cat that sleeps on your head? A dog you’re letting out every night? Those needy beasts may be costing you more than they should — in terms of lost sleep, that is. Dogs and cats, it turns out, are one of the biggest causes of humans’ sleep problems. At the Mayo Clinic Sleep Disorders Center, 53% of patients said pets played a big role in their sleep problems; 22% had pets sleeping on the bed with them. "That’s a significant number," says John Shepard, MD, medical director of the Mayo Clinic Sleep Disorders Center. All kinds of environmental things play havoc with the quality of our sleep — a ticking clock, too much light, high humidity, temperature too cold or too hot — but Shepard tuned into pets after one discussion with a patient. She got up in the middle of the night to let the dog out, waiting up to 15 minutes for the critter. "After hearing that anecdote, I began to wonder how many of my patients were sleeping with pets and how much the pet interrupted sleep," he says. In the course of regular checkups, Shepard questioned 300 patients about their pets — asking whether the animals shared the bed. He found that: 157 of patients (52%) had one or more pets, largely cats and dogs. Nearly 60% allowed pets to sleep in the bedroom. Cats were more likely than dogs to be allowed in the bedroom and on the bed. If they were allowed in the bedroom, dogs had 57% chance of being allowed onto the bed. Some of the pets snored: 21% of dogs and 7% of cats. Only 1% of patients felt their sleep was disrupted for more than 20 minutes per night on average. Whether pet owners were really up-front about their pets’ habits, he’s not sure — but he says he suspects the problem may be far worse than owners admit. "Some people are very attached to their pets and will tolerate poorer sleep in order to be near them at night," he says. But the problem may be not the animal’s habits — but the animal itself, says Max Hirshkowitz, PhD, associate professor of psychiatry and medicine and director of the Sleep Disorder and Research Center at Baylor College of Medicine in Houston and the Veterans Administration Hospital in Houston. Very often, it’s an allergic reaction to cat dander that’s causing the human to wake up, he tells WebMD. "[The allergy] may be causing a breathing problem, but people don’t realize it. Cats have lots of dander. People may not feel any reaction when the cat is just in the house, but when it’s in the same bed, near you for hours and hours, that makes the reaction worse." Animal allergies are indeed a big cause of humans’ sleep problems, says Richard Castriotta, MD, a sleep disorders expert at the University of Texas Medical School at Houston. His study of 800 patients with sleep disorders found that 53% were suffering from allergies. If allergies are the problem, "it’s an easy thing to fix," he says. "Get the animal out of the room." After all, allergy medication won’t help you sleep any better if the pet is still on the bed, says Badar Syed, a neurologist and co-director of sleep disorders center at Emory University School of Medicine in Atlanta. "If the pet continues sleeping with them, they’re still going to wake up." "I see it all the time in my clinic," Syed tells WebMD. "People describe sleep disturbance because of pets, but they don’t realize exactly what’s happening." Nevertheless, if Fluffy or Fido continues to disrupt your sleep, you need to do something about it. "Chronic sleep deprivation is major problem in our society," says Syed. "It causes serious daytime sleepiness and increased risk of motor vehicle accidents. The latest data shows that more people die sleeping behind wheel than from drinking and driving." Sleep disruption also affects memory, concentration, and work performance, he says. "It’s a vicious cycle." If you don’t have pet allergies — if the animal is simply bugging you too much — "get a bigger bed," advises Castriotta. Many people just live with it. "Some people just adapt to the sleep disruptions and consider that to be totally normal."

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If You’re Dog Tired, Your Dog May Be Guilty By Jeanie Davis WebMD Medical News Reviewed By Charlotte Grayson advertisement Email to a friend Printer-friendly version Feb. 21, 2002 — Got a cat that sleeps on your head? A dog you’re letting out every night? Those needy beasts may be costing you more than they should — in terms of lost sleep, that is. Dogs and cats, it turns out, are one of the biggest causes of humans’ sleep problems. At the Mayo Clinic Sleep Disorders Center, 53% of patients said pets played a big role in their sleep problems; 22% had pets sleeping on the bed with them. "That’s a significant number," says John Shepard, MD, medical director of the Mayo Clinic Sleep Disorders Center. All kinds of environmental things play havoc with the quality of our sleep — a ticking clock, too much light, high humidity, temperature too cold or too hot — but Shepard tuned into pets after one discussion with a patient. She got up in the middle of the night to let the dog out, waiting up to 15 minutes for the critter. "After hearing that anecdote, I began to wonder how many of my patients were sleeping with pets and how much the pet interrupted sleep," he says. In the course of regular checkups, Shepard questioned 300 patients about their pets — asking whether the animals shared the bed. He found that: 157 of patients (52%) had one or more pets, largely cats and dogs. Nearly 60% allowed pets to sleep in the bedroom. Cats were more likely than dogs to be allowed in the bedroom and on the bed. If they were allowed in the bedroom, dogs had 57% chance of being allowed onto the bed. Some of the pets snored: 21% of dogs and 7% of cats. Only 1% of patients felt their sleep was disrupted for more than 20 minutes per night on average. Whether pet owners were really up-front about their pets’ habits, he’s not sure — but he says he suspects the problem may be far worse than owners admit. "Some people are very attached to their pets and will tolerate poorer sleep in order to be near them at night," he says. But the problem may be not the animal’s habits — but the animal itself, says Max Hirshkowitz, PhD, associate professor of psychiatry and medicine and director of the Sleep Disorder and Research Center at Baylor College of Medicine in Houston and the Veterans Administration Hospital in Houston. Very often, it’s an allergic reaction to cat dander that’s causing the human to wake up, he tells WebMD. "[The allergy] may be causing a breathing problem, but people don’t realize it. Cats have lots of dander. People may not feel any reaction when the cat is just in the house, but when it’s in the same bed, near you for hours and hours, that makes the reaction worse." Animal allergies are indeed a big cause of humans’ sleep problems, says Richard Castriotta, MD, a sleep disorders expert at the University of Texas Medical School at Houston. His study of 800 patients with sleep disorders found that 53% were suffering from allergies. If allergies are the problem, "it’s an easy thing to fix," he says. "Get the animal out of the room." After all, allergy medication won’t help you sleep any better if the pet is still on the bed, says Badar Syed, a neurologist and co-director of sleep disorders center at Emory University School of Medicine in Atlanta. "If the pet continues sleeping with them, they’re still going to wake up." "I see it all the time in my clinic," Syed tells WebMD. "People describe sleep disturbance because of pets, but they don’t realize exactly what’s happening." Nevertheless, if Fluffy or Fido continues to disrupt your sleep, you need to do something about it. "Chronic sleep deprivation is major problem in our society," says Syed. "It causes serious daytime sleepiness and increased risk of motor vehicle accidents. The latest data shows that more people die sleeping behind wheel than from drinking and driving." Sleep disruption also affects memory, concentration, and work performance, he says. "It’s a vicious cycle." If you don’t have pet allergies — if the animal is simply bugging you too much — "get a bigger bed," advises Castriotta. Many people just live with it. "Some people just adapt to the sleep disruptions and consider that to be totally normal."

Response:

If You’re Dog Tired, Your Dog May Be Guilty By Jeanie Davis

This is so true. It’s that time of year again, when the dawn chorus starts earlier and earlier, and Ripley just HAS to go out and investigate. He would tear the door down if we didn’t let him out. Jeanette

Response:

From the floor to the mattress has been a very difficult jump for her.

Have you considered maybe making a stairway to the mattress out of boxes or something so she can easily walk up without waking you? Also, my neighbor had a cat with tons of jingly expired metal tags on her collar. She’d scratch outside my window and keep me up at night. Soooo, one night I went outside, got the cat, took off the 5 year old tags from a state 2,000 miles away, gave her a new collar with her name/number written on it and finally got some rest. I also put advantage on her for the fleas and put some soothing cat spray where she was scratching. I was finally able to get some sleep and the kitty was happier also.

Response:

I’m not a mother, but when Soncek threw up at 5 am, I was wide awake in no time at all (it was the regurgitation thing, nothing serious, he was probably stressed out because of the d*mn firecrackers around New Year’s Eve). Now I can sleep more soundly because I know that if something is wrong with Soncek I am sure to wake up really quickly. Soncek doesn’t sleep on my bed (even though I’d like him to), he sleeps on his chair near my bed. But if I wake up or can’t go to sleep at night (I have frequent bouts of insomnia), he comes and lies on my tummy and soothingly purrs for me, he is just wonderful that way. Good night everyone — Polonca & Soncek

Response:

Yes, yes, oh yes I agree with this opinion!! As most know, Mutt had severe ligament trauma to her back leg last summer. She had surgery. She’s not able to jump certain jumps too well. She can leap, but a straight jump isn’t easy. From the floor to the mattress has been a very difficult jump for her. And I don’t know if it’s because I’m a mother, or not. Normally, when a mother has a newborn in the house, she’s attuned to every change of breath that the baby makes in his/her crib, every whimper, every movement. It’s part of what lets us wake up out of a deep sleep after a 45 minute snooze just to do it all over again. In saying that, Mutt’s appearance on the side of our bed wakes me out of a sound sleep. Her collar tags jingle, she hops up on her back legs and her front paws are on the mattress. Three and four times a night this can go on. I wake up each and every single time because I know how difficult it would be for her to get back in bed without my help. Not to mention the vet has requested I let her jump as little as possible due to her surgery procedure. *grin* It’s like spending the next 6+ years with a newborn LOL Grace who is looking for a ladder of sorts for Mutt

Response:

If You’re Dog Tired, Your Dog May Be Guilty By Jeanie Davis WebMD Medical News Reviewed By Charlotte Grayson advertisement Email to a friend Printer-friendly version Feb. 21, 2002 — Got a cat that sleeps on your head? A dog you’re letting out every night? Those needy beasts may be costing you more than they should — in terms of lost sleep, that is. Dogs and cats, it turns out, are one of the biggest causes of humans’ sleep problems. At the Mayo Clinic Sleep Disorders Center, 53% of patients said pets played a big role in their sleep problems; 22% had pets sleeping on the bed with them. "That’s a significant number," says John Shepard, MD, medical director of the Mayo Clinic Sleep Disorders Center. All kinds of environmental things play havoc with the quality of our sleep — a ticking clock, too much light, high humidity, temperature too cold or too hot — but Shepard tuned into pets after one discussion with a patient. She got up in the middle of the night to let the dog out, waiting up to 15 minutes for the critter. "After hearing that anecdote, I began to wonder how many of my patients were sleeping with pets and how much the pet interrupted sleep," he says. In the course of regular checkups, Shepard questioned 300 patients about their pets — asking whether the animals shared the bed. He found that: 157 of patients (52%) had one or more pets, largely cats and dogs. Nearly 60% allowed pets to sleep in the bedroom. Cats were more likely than dogs to be allowed in the bedroom and on the bed. If they were allowed in the bedroom, dogs had 57% chance of being allowed onto the bed. Some of the pets snored: 21% of dogs and 7% of cats. Only 1% of patients felt their sleep was disrupted for more than 20 minutes per night on average. Whether pet owners were really up-front about their pets’ habits, he’s not sure — but he says he suspects the problem may be far worse than owners admit. "Some people are very attached to their pets and will tolerate poorer sleep in order to be near them at night," he says. But the problem may be not the animal’s habits — but the animal itself, says Max Hirshkowitz, PhD, associate professor of psychiatry and medicine and director of the Sleep Disorder and Research Center at Baylor College of Medicine in Houston and the Veterans Administration Hospital in Houston. Very often, it’s an allergic reaction to cat dander that’s causing the human to wake up, he tells WebMD. "[The allergy] may be causing a breathing problem, but people don’t realize it. Cats have lots of dander. People may not feel any reaction when the cat is just in the house, but when it’s in the same bed, near you for hours and hours, that makes the reaction worse." Animal allergies are indeed a big cause of humans’ sleep problems, says Richard Castriotta, MD, a sleep disorders expert at the University of Texas Medical School at Houston. His study of 800 patients with sleep disorders found that 53% were suffering from allergies. If allergies are the problem, "it’s an easy thing to fix," he says. "Get the animal out of the room." After all, allergy medication won’t help you sleep any better if the pet is still on the bed, says Badar Syed, a neurologist and co-director of sleep disorders center at Emory University School of Medicine in Atlanta. "If the pet continues sleeping with them, they’re still going to wake up." "I see it all the time in my clinic," Syed tells WebMD. "People describe sleep disturbance because of pets, but they don’t realize exactly what’s happening." Nevertheless, if Fluffy or Fido continues to disrupt your sleep, you need to do something about it. "Chronic sleep deprivation is major problem in our society," says Syed. "It causes serious daytime sleepiness and increased risk of motor vehicle accidents. The latest data shows that more people die sleeping behind wheel than from drinking and driving." Sleep disruption also affects memory, concentration, and work performance, he says. "It’s a vicious cycle." If you don’t have pet allergies — if the animal is simply bugging you too much — "get a bigger bed," advises Castriotta. Many people just live with it. "Some people just adapt to the sleep disruptions and consider that to be totally normal."

Response:

What is wrong with me…?

admin — Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Have been to an ENT, who prescribed benzonatate and prednisone; I have two days left of the steroids (6 pills first two days, 5 the next two, etc). The cough is still with me, though I’m blowing my nose slightly less. However… I am sleeping 8-12 hours/night and still completely exhausted. I have black rings under my eyes at almost all times (how can I get rid of those?) at varying ’strengths,’ and occasionally (such as today) around my eyes entirely. It constantly feels like I have half a nose operating; one nostril or the other is blocked (but blocked way back) and cannot be cleared by blowing. If I block the "clear" nostril (which still seems somewhat obstructed), I can forcibly inhale through the more blocked nostril, but it requires considerable effort. Have tried Nasacort (metered, propelled, 10g), nasacort aq (pump activated, 6.5g), Afrin, Sudafed Maximum Strength Sinus and Allergy, Dayquil, Claratin D, Singulair, and Astelin. None of these have helped. It’s getting to the point where I’m so constantly fatigued that I’m having difficulty driving / carrying on at work / school (I work full time and go to night school). I fear eventually my grades will suffer, if not my safety. I have a follow-up appointment with the ENT on the 25th (earliest I could get in). Looking for any opinions or options; anything I can take in to him and/or try in the meanwhile. Many, many, many thanks in advance… Chris P.S. Please reply to Usenet, as this email address is blocked (SPAM protection)

Response:

Chris.. I don’t want to post to usenet, but if you want to e-mail me direct, I would like to share some info with you. — Bruce

Response:

"Chris." wrote:

Chris, I may have missed your earlier posts. I have a lot of questions to try to clarify your situation. My apologies in advance. > Have been to an ENT, who prescribed benzonatate and prednisone;

What was his diagnosis??? If his diagnosis was sinusitis, he should have put you on antibiotics. I assume that he or another doctor has listened to your lungs thru the stethoscope; are your lungs clear? > I have two days left of the steroids (6 pills first two days, > 5 the next two, etc). The cough is still with me, though I’m > blowing my nose slightly less.

Is the cough productive? If so, what is the color of the sputum? When you blow your nose, what is the color of the secretions? When you feel like you need to cough, is that "tickle" down deep in your chest, or is it up higher near your larynx or throat? (I’m trying to tell whether the problem is upper respiratory tract or lower respiratory tract or maybe even both.) > I am sleeping 8-12 hours/night and still completely exhausted. > I have black rings under my eyes at almost all times (how can > I get rid of those?) at varying ’strengths,’ and occasionally > (such as today) around my eyes entirely.

The coughing is going to wear you out. The Benzonatate is sedating, and will make you sleepy and drowsy. And if you have an active infection, that will really knock you out. When I’ve had a bad acute sinus infection, I was unable to get out of bed in the morning. > It constantly feels like I have half a nose operating; one nostril > or the other is blocked (but blocked way back) and cannot be cleared > by blowing. If I block the "clear" nostril (which still seems > somewhat obstructed), I can forcibly inhale through the more blocked > nostril, but it requires considerable effort.

Your ENT should have done a nasal endoscopy, and he should have noticed how blocked your nostrils are. Did he in fact do that? > Have tried Nasacort (metered, propelled, 10g), nasacort aq (pump activated, > 6.5g), Afrin, Sudafed Maximum Strength Sinus and Allergy, Dayquil, Claratin > D, Singulair, and Astelin. > None of these have helped.

I may have missed your earlier posts. Have you been evaluated for sinus infection? If so, what antibiotics have they prescribed for you? The one medication you haven’t mentioned yet is antibiotics! Continuing discolored (greenish-yellow or green) mucus, either as post nasal drip or when you blow your nose, is a telltale sign of infection. That’s why I asked about the color of your secretions. Let me tell you, that even ENTs can make mistakes. I had one ENT who misdiagnosed my sinusitis as simple rhinitis. Needless to say, I don’t go to him anymore. > I have a follow-up appointment with the ENT on the 25th (earliest I > could get in).

Has the ENT scheduled you for sinus CT scan? If so, what were the results? > Looking for any opinions or options; anything I can take in to him > and/or try in the meanwhile.

Well, one key issue is whether you have an infection or not, and what the ENT said about that. If you’ve discussed this before and I missed your posts, I apologize. In the meantime, nasal wash (a.k.a. nasal irrigation) is the best way to relieve sinus/nasal symptoms. If your cough is being aggravated by post nasal drip, then irrigating the secretions out of your nose before bedtime should really relieve that cough and let you sleep. Here’s a list of recommended methods: http://www.njc.org/medfacts/nasal.html From my own experience, the coughing really stinks. If the cough is deep in your chest, then that may indicate bronchitis rather than post nasal drip. In that case, the best thing to take is plain Robitussin (guaifenisin syrup). It will help loosen all that phlegm in your airways. Disregard the "recommended" dosage on the package. For a nasty bronchitis, it’s nowhere near enough. You can safely take up to 2,400 mg per day. Get in the bathtub, close the shower curtains, turn on the hot water full blast, and inhale the steam thru your nose and mouth. That moisture will also help moisten that mucus and make it easier to drain. If you really want to be adventurous, then try THIS: Fill the tub with water as hot as you can stand it, and then lie down prone in the tub with your head down and try to raise your legs. In other words, you want your head lower than the rest of your body. At that angle, once the steam begins to work, gravity will pull the phlegm out of your lungs and you can cough it up. I have found that after about 1/2 hour of that, the phlegm has oozed out of my bronchial tubes and worked its way to my larynx, and then one cough and out it comes! — Steven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlit…@earthlink.net

Response:

"Chris." wrote: > Have been to an ENT, who prescribed benzonatate and prednisone; > I have two days left of the steroids (6 pills first two days, > 5 the next two, etc). The cough is still with me, though I’m > blowing my nose slightly less. > However… > I am sleeping 8-12 hours/night and still completely exhausted. > I have black rings under my eyes at almost all times (how can > I get rid of those?) at varying ’strengths,’ and occasionally > (such as today) around my eyes entirely….

Besides exhaustion, two other common causes of these black circles under the eyes are: allergy; and an infection of the ethmoid sinuses. Again, your ENT should be able to tell about a sinus infection. When he does the nasal endoscopy, he may also look for signs that your nasal mucosa are hypersensitive and hypersecretory, which might indicate allergy. If so, then he may refer you to an allergist. Do you already have a history of allergies? — Steven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlit…@earthlink.net

Response:

For anyone on the alt.support.sleep-disorder, Steven (among others) gives great and very helpful advice about nasal and sinus problems on the alt.support.sinusitis newsgroup. Doesn’t hurt (and can make a big difference for some) for everyone with apnea to get hints on keeping our nasal passages as clear as possible. Mike "Steven Litvintchouk" wrote in message

news:3C9186AB.966AB027@earthlink.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Chris." wrote: > > Have been to an ENT, who prescribed benzonatate and prednisone; > > I have two days left of the steroids (6 pills first two days, > > 5 the next two, etc). The cough is still with me, though I’m > > blowing my nose slightly less. > > However… > > I am sleeping 8-12 hours/night and still completely exhausted. > > I have black rings under my eyes at almost all times (how can > > I get rid of those?) at varying ’strengths,’ and occasionally > > (such as today) around my eyes entirely…. > Besides exhaustion, two other common causes of these black circles under > the eyes are: allergy; and an infection of the ethmoid sinuses. > Again, your ENT should be able to tell about a sinus infection. When he > does the nasal endoscopy, he may also look for signs that your nasal > mucosa are hypersensitive and hypersecretory, which might indicate > allergy. If so, then he may refer you to an allergist. Do you already > have a history of allergies? > — > Steven D. Litvintchouk > Email: sdlit…@earthlink.net

Response:

Lori&Mike wrote: > For anyone on the alt.support.sleep-disorder, Steven (among others) gives > great and very helpful advice about nasal and sinus problems on the > alt.support.sinusitis newsgroup. Doesn’t hurt (and can make a big difference > for some) for everyone with apnea to get hints on keeping our nasal passages > as clear as possible. Mike

Thanx for the compliment, Mike. Is this the same Chris who has sleep problems on alt.support.sleep-disorder? Because this Chris’s symptoms don’t look like apnea; they look like some kind of acute respiratory illness–sinusitis or non-allergic rhinitis or maybe even bronchitis. — Steven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlit…@earthlink.net

Response:

You are welcome for the compliment! Our little sleep-support group has gotten hammered with, lets say, less than helpful people over the past several days so it’s nice to see someone only trying to help. There’s several Chris’ (and seems like thousands of Mikes on the sleep newsgroup so I’m not sure where that particular Chris originated. Mike "Steven Litvintchouk" wrote in message

news:3C919AFC.E06278F3@earthlink.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Lori&Mike wrote: > > For anyone on the alt.support.sleep-disorder, Steven (among others) gives > > great and very helpful advice about nasal and sinus problems on the > > alt.support.sinusitis newsgroup. Doesn’t hurt (and can make a big difference > > for some) for everyone with apnea to get hints on keeping our nasal passages > > as clear as possible. Mike > Thanx for the compliment, Mike. > Is this the same Chris who has sleep problems on > alt.support.sleep-disorder? > Because this Chris’s symptoms don’t look like apnea; they look like some > kind of acute respiratory illness–sinusitis or non-allergic rhinitis or > maybe even bronchitis. > — > Steven D. Litvintchouk > Email: sdlit…@earthlink.net

Response:

get thee to a sleep doctor! Beware the ENT not trained in sleep disorders. If you are in a place where there is no major sleep clinic, find the nearest one and get there. You deserve to see if this is what the problem is. So many things have been treated with drugs and bandaids when a string of uninterruped restful sleep would solve the whole problem. CPAP can help you get that if you are suffering from sleep apnea. It sounds like, to me, a sufferer (who suffers less now) that you could be experiencing sleep apnea. Please take good care of yourself and see if you can find the right doc to set up an overnite sleep study for you. Then you will know. take care! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Chris." wrote: > Have been to an ENT, who prescribed benzonatate and prednisone; > I have two days left of the steroids (6 pills first two days, > 5 the next two, etc). The cough is still with me, though I’m > blowing my nose slightly less. > However… > I am sleeping 8-12 hours/night and still completely exhausted. > I have black rings under my eyes at almost all times (how can > I get rid of those?) at varying ’strengths,’ and occasionally > (such as today) around my eyes entirely. > It constantly feels like I have half a nose operating; one nostril > or the other is blocked (but blocked way back) and cannot be cleared > by blowing. If I block the "clear" nostril (which still seems > somewhat obstructed), I can forcibly inhale through the more blocked > nostril, but it requires considerable effort. > Have tried Nasacort (metered, propelled, 10g), nasacort aq (pump activated, > 6.5g), Afrin, Sudafed Maximum Strength Sinus and Allergy, Dayquil, Claratin > D, Singulair, and Astelin. > None of these have helped. > It’s getting to the point where I’m so constantly fatigued that I’m > having difficulty driving / carrying on at work / school (I work > full time and go to night school). I fear eventually my grades will > suffer, if not my safety. > I have a follow-up appointment with the ENT on the 25th (earliest I > could get in). > Looking for any opinions or options; anything I can take in to him > and/or try in the meanwhile. > Many, many, many thanks in advance… > Chris > P.S. Please reply to Usenet, as this email address is blocked (SPAM protection)

Response:

Dogs on your bed??

admin — Fri, 01 Mar 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

My GSD and my Pem Corgi both sleep on my bed. Any sleep disorders I suffer existed before the dogs were allowed on the bed. The Corgi has only been sleeping on the bed for a few months–she is not quite a year old and didn’t understand that BED = SLEEP. Now she is quite good! jav

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all! I’m a reporter, working on a story about folks whose pets sleep on the bed with them. There’s a new report from Mayo Clinic that found that people who had sleep disorders often slept with their pets. You may read about the report here: http://www.newswise.com/articles/2002/2/SLEEP4.MMC.html?sc=wire I’m looking to speak with anyone whose pet or pets sleep on the bed with them. My cat, Arf, and dog, Widget, sleep with me — although Arf enjoys meowing loudly at around 3 a.m., and Widget snores!! If you’d like to comment, feel free to e-mail me with your phone number and a good time to call; or if you think this topic would make for an interesting discussion, post back to the list. Thanks! Regards, Ms. Dru Sefton National Correspondent Newhouse News Service 202-383-7879 Who am I? http://www.newhouse.com/sefton.html

Response:

My cockapoo-ish boy, Henry Arlis Ball (I don’t really know what the hell he is) regularly sleeps in my bed – under the blankies and he often uses the pillow. And he likes to sleep in in the mornings. Very much. And when he gets up, he has "Bed Head" or, as my daughter calls it, "Bed Body" (because of his semi-curly fur). Jennifer

Response:

Hello all! I’m a reporter, working on a story about folks whose pets sleep on the bed with them.

My German Shepherd sleeps on the bed with my husband and I. She only comes up when invited. Being a German Shepherd, she feels she must patrol the house through the night, so after an hour she will get down, patrol and then come back into the bedroom and sleep on the floor. There she will stay until one of us wakes up (usually not until morning) and re-invites her onto the bed. My 9 month old puppy is not allowed on the furniture. All he does when he gets up on the bed or sofa is roll around and play, and that is far too annoying to try to sleep with. He has to sleep on the floor until he can learn to settle down and sleep. We also have a cat, who sleeps between our heads. He purrs very softly, and is more of a comfort than an annoyance. — Jenn Standring remove "E" from "powersurfEr" to email

Response:

My three dogs and five cats all have access to my bedroom at night (most of the time). The dogs sleep on the bed. They generally stay in one spot and don’t bother me. The cats, on the other hand, can’t seem to stay put. They’re the ones who disturb my sleep. Two of my cats are 18 (human) years old and, for some reason, like to meow loudly at all hours of the night. (They were neutered many years ago. They loud meowing just started a couple of years ago.) I occasionally kick all the cats out of the bedroom and shut the door just so I will be able to sleep a little better. (I can still hear the meowing, though.) Given a choice, I’ll take the dogs and cats over a really good night’s sleep. 8^)~~~~ Sue (who, you might be curious to know, ~~~~~~~ is divorced without children) "I reserve the absolute right to be smarter today than I was yesterday." -Adlai Stevenson http://eckhardt.net/suzanne/

Response:

Hello all! I’m a reporter, working on a story about folks whose pets sleep on the bed with them.

My two Chow Chows don’t sleep in my bed: I sleep in their bed. By choice, I sleep on a gurney mattress on the floor. Also by choice, the floor is their bed. Michael

Response:

If hubby stays up late to watch TV and the dog takes his place in bed, I fall asleep faster and sleep more soundly when the dog is there than when I go to bed alone. Lisa – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all! I’m a reporter, working on a story about folks whose pets sleep on the bed with them. There’s a new report from Mayo Clinic that found that people who had sleep disorders often slept with their pets. You may read about the report here: http://www.newswise.com/articles/2002/2/SLEEP4.MMC.html?sc=wire I’m looking to speak with anyone whose pet or pets sleep on the bed with them. My cat, Arf, and dog, Widget, sleep with me — although Arf enjoys meowing loudly at around 3 a.m., and Widget snores!! If you’d like to comment, feel free to e-mail me with your phone number and a good time to call; or if you think this topic would make for an interesting discussion, post back to the list. Thanks! Regards, Ms. Dru Sefton National Correspondent Newhouse News Service 202-383-7879 Who am I? http://www.newhouse.com/sefton.html

Response:

Hello all! I’m a reporter, working on a story about folks whose pets sleep on the bed with them. There’s a new report from Mayo Clinic that found that people who had sleep disorders often slept with their pets. You may read about the report here: http://www.newswise.com/articles/2002/2/SLEEP4.MMC.html?sc=wire I’m looking to speak with anyone whose pet or pets sleep on the bed with them. My cat, Arf, and dog, Widget, sleep with me — although Arf enjoys meowing loudly at around 3 a.m., and Widget snores!! If you’d like to comment, feel free to e-mail me with your phone number and a good time to call; or if you think this topic would make for an interesting discussion, post back to the list. Thanks! Regards, Ms. Dru Sefton National Correspondent Newhouse News Service 202-383-7879 Who am I? http://www.newhouse.com/sefton.html

Response:

Help in Australia

admin — Tue, 19 Feb 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

> It seems like it is going to be a wait to get in. I have private health > insurance, so that is a plus. > I did an online snoring survey and got a score of 90, when the test said 35 > or over is not good for your health. I know online surveys are not too > accurate, but I have been struggling for years with snoring and sleep > problems, and now have decided (with my partner’s prompting) to do something > about it.

Good on you for doing something about it. It’s important and could make a huge difference to your quaility of life. > I will chat to my GP and see what we can do. > Is surgery the best thing? I have done a little research and it seems to be > the best way to go. I have had these hassles since I was young (5 or 6). I > am now 28.

Surgery should be a LAST resort… (excepting i believe some types of nasal surgery) The most effective and by far the safest treatment is the use of a CPAP machine, which may sound scary or offputting but as you’ll gather from reading these posts, it’s really not so bad and changes most people’s lives for the best! Please keep us updated and let us know what questions you have or any advice you need. Beth in Oz

Response:

CPAP is the best and normally most afective, surgery usually only for the few people that can not use CPAP http://cwpp.slq.qld.gov.au/sleepqld/factsheets/CPAP.pdf > I will chat to my GP and see what we can do. > Is surgery the best thing? I have done a little research and it seems to be > the best way to go. I have had these hassles since I was young (5 or 6). I > am now 28.

You are Lucky to be able to do something while you are still young. I knew I had problems but they only invented CPAP in 1985 and then hard to get it, took untill 1996 ( I was 40 then)for me to get into a sleep centre, was not many in Australia at that time none in Mackay had to go to Brisbane(1100 klms ) waiting list was 12 months. Now there is one here in Mackay. The Labour Federal Govt. of the time put it sleep centres on the medicare list therefore made it cheaper and more sleep centres starts getting build around the country. Just as well was not left to present govt., I am not on private medical, and asked if i could get re tested and they told me 3 years waiting list at moment, but if i was private or paid $800 can get in in a few months. Warren p/s wish you luck and hope you get tested soon and if needed get CPAP it will change your life.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Tal" wrote in message news:3c739ebd@dnews.tpgi.com.au… > > It seems like it is going to be a wait to get in. I have private health > > insurance, so that is a plus. > > I did an online snoring survey and got a score of 90, when the test said > 35 > > or over is not good for your health. I know online surveys are not too > > accurate, but I have been struggling for years with snoring and sleep > > problems, and now have decided (with my partner’s prompting) to do > something > > about it. > Good on you for doing something about it. It’s important and could make a > huge difference to your quaility of life. > > I will chat to my GP and see what we can do. > > Is surgery the best thing? I have done a little research and it seems to > be > > the best way to go. I have had these hassles since I was young (5 or 6). I > > am now 28. > Surgery should be a LAST resort… (excepting i believe some types of nasal > surgery) The most effective and by far the safest treatment is the use of > a CPAP machine, which may sound scary or offputting but as you’ll gather > from reading these posts, it’s really not so bad and changes most people’s > lives for the best! > Please keep us updated and let us know what questions you have or any advice > you need. > Beth in Oz

I must admit, I don’t want to be attached to a machine during the night. I would rather have surgery first to try and maintain a normal as possible life. Machines attached to you do not seem to fit this expectation. I don’t want to have to drag this around if I start backpacking in Europe at the end of the year. Pain and discomfort (for a short time) is something I can put up with. I am also looking at laser surgery for my eyes Sounds like I am defective, as I will be having knee surgery soon too…

Response:

> Besides, some of the new CPAP machines are quite > small and light, which won’t be too inconvenient to carry as hand luggage > (and you must do this). Get power adapters and transformers for various > countries, and you’re set.

According to ResMed, modern switch mode power supplies adapt to different voltages automatically, so you don’t need transformers, only one of those sets of travellers plugs. Make it a requirement of the model CPAP you buy(if you need to).

Response:

"Home" wrote: >I must admit, I don’t want to be attached to a machine during the night.

Few, if any, of us do. >I would rather have surgery first to try and maintain a normal as possible >life.

So would I, if I thought surgery was likely to treat the problem. But the best odds I see are that one person in six may get successful treatment via ENT-type surgery, that’s not good enough. >Machines attached to you do not seem to fit this expectation. I don’t >want to have to drag this around if I start backpacking in Europe at the end >of the year.

We’ve had many campers and backpackers here. Small, lightweight, machines exist, many people have used solar power in remote locations. >Pain and discomfort (for a short time) is something I can put up with.

Your life, your choice. But wouldn’t it be horrible to go through all the pain and inconvenience, only to find out that it didn’t help? And that you still need CPAP? Please give CPAP a try, the end of the year is a long ways off… Tom

Response:

In article , h…@nohomespam.com says… > I must admit, I don’t want to be attached to a machine during the night. I > would rather have surgery first to try and maintain a normal as possible > life. Machines attached to you do not seem to fit this expectation. I don’t > want to have to drag this around if I start backpacking in Europe at the end > of the year. > Pain and discomfort (for a short time) is something I can put up with.

Have a very close look at the success rates of surgery published by various sleep organisations, and you might be persuaded otherwise. Some of them: http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/prof/sleep/slpaprsk.pdf http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/public/sleep/sleepapn.txt http://www.silentpartners.org/ENT/patients/snoringandapnea.htm http://www.medhost.at/health/sleep-web/docs/9805select.htm Success of surgery depends specifically on your particular condition and form of apnea manifestation, so be very careful when you look at claims of success rates. Get opinions from three different specialists at least, before deciding on surgery. CPAP, on the other hand, is a reversible treatment, that is, you can get off it, while loss of tissue to surgery is irreversible. If you’re worried about lugging around a CPAP machine while backpacking, think about some of the things that I’ve seen people take with them in their backpacks overseas: hair dryer, electric shaver, blender, mini-tv. All frivolous stuff compared to your life-saver, yet they had no qualms in lugging them around. Besides, some of the new CPAP machines are quite small and light, which won’t be too inconvenient to carry as hand luggage (and you must do this). Get power adapters and transformers for various countries, and you’re set.

Response:

> The Austin Hospital has a very good sleep lab. It’s the only one in > Melbourne. After seeing a specialist, be prepared to wait for around 3 > months for an appointment at the lab (if you need one, that is). > However, if you put yourself on the standby list (where you get slotted > in at short notice when people cancel their appointments), you might get > lucky and have a much shorter waiting period.

Unless you mean the Alfred you’re mistaken in that there is only one in Melbourne. My sleep study at the Alfred had a waiting list of 12 months (i got in early due to cancellation) I do believe also that Monash is now doing sleep studies, but i think they focus on children.

Response:

In article <3c731…@dnews.tpgi.com.au>, ta…@tpg.com.au says… > > The Austin Hospital has a very good sleep lab. It’s the only one in > > Melbourne. After seeing a specialist, be prepared to wait for around 3 > > months for an appointment at the lab (if you need one, that is). > > However, if you put yourself on the standby list (where you get slotted > > in at short notice when people cancel their appointments), you might get > > lucky and have a much shorter waiting period. > Unless you mean the Alfred you’re mistaken in that there is only one in > Melbourne. My sleep study at the Alfred had a waiting list of 12 months (i > got in early due to cancellation) > I do believe also that Monash is now doing sleep studies, but i think they > focus on children.

No, I meant the Austin which used to be called Austin Repatriation Hospital before it amalgamated with Heidelberg Hospital. I wasn’t aware that the Alfred also has a sleep unit; 12 months seems an excessive waiting period. I’ve had about half a dozen sleep studies at the Austin and the longest I had to wait was 3 months.

Response:

"ARP1153" <-…@-.-> wrote in message

news:MPG.16dde1a1a3af225698972c@news-vic… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In article <3c731…@dnews.tpgi.com.au>, ta…@tpg.com.au says… > > > The Austin Hospital has a very good sleep lab. It’s the only one in > > > Melbourne. After seeing a specialist, be prepared to wait for around 3 > > > months for an appointment at the lab (if you need one, that is). > > > However, if you put yourself on the standby list (where you get slotted > > > in at short notice when people cancel their appointments), you might get > > > lucky and have a much shorter waiting period. > > Unless you mean the Alfred you’re mistaken in that there is only one in > > Melbourne. My sleep study at the Alfred had a waiting list of 12 months (i > > got in early due to cancellation) > > I do believe also that Monash is now doing sleep studies, but i think they > > focus on children. > No, I meant the Austin which used to be called Austin Repatriation > Hospital before it amalgamated with Heidelberg Hospital. I wasn’t aware > that the Alfred also has a sleep unit; 12 months seems an excessive > waiting period. I’ve had about half a dozen sleep studies at the Austin > and the longest I had to wait was 3 months.

It seems like it is going to be a wait to get in. I have private health insurance, so that is a plus. I did an online snoring survey and got a score of 90, when the test said 35 or over is not good for your health. I know online surveys are not too accurate, but I have been struggling for years with snoring and sleep problems, and now have decided (with my partner’s prompting) to do something about it. I will chat to my GP and see what we can do. Is surgery the best thing? I have done a little research and it seems to be the best way to go. I have had these hassles since I was young (5 or 6). I am now 28.

Response:

In article , h…@nohomespam.com says… > I am a snorer in Melbourne Australia. I am looking for a clinic to help > treat my problems. > Does anyone know of someone they would recommend for treatment? > Thanks > Home.

Go to your GP for a referral to a sleep specialist. You need this referral before you can see the latter. The Austin Hospital has a very good sleep lab. It’s the only one in Melbourne. After seeing a specialist, be prepared to wait for around 3 months for an appointment at the lab (if you need one, that is). However, if you put yourself on the standby list (where you get slotted in at short notice when people cancel their appointments), you might get lucky and have a much shorter waiting period.

Response:

G’day, As others have said, see your GP and get a referral to a sleep specialist. That way, Medicare and your health insurance will cover (some of) the costs. However, there are several sleep clinics here in Melbourne. I went to the one at Mitcham Private Hospital, which was very good. I am sure your specialist will recommend one to use. And I didnt wait three months to get a study done – closer to 2-3 weeks when you exclude the Christmas break. Regards, Geoff

Response:

I am a snorer in Melbourne Australia. I am looking for a clinic to help treat my problems. Does anyone know of someone they would recommend for treatment? Thanks Home.

Response:

First in Australia you have to get a referral from your doctor and they narmall have a list of sleep specialist . these links may help Useful Links For more information regarding sleep disorders: 1.. Australasian Sleep Association Inc. Address: GPO Box 295 Sydney, NSW, 1043 Australia Ph: 0500-500-701 Fax: 0500-500-702 Email: sleep…@ozemail.com.au 2.. Sleep Disorders Australia Address: 288 Springfield Road, Nunawading, VIC, 3131 Australia. Phone: (+613) 9878-7145 Email: slee…@hcn.net.au 3.. The Australian Lung Foundation Address: Level 3, 454 Upper Edward Street, Spring Hill, QLD, 4000 Australia. 4.. For information on patient support groups, please contact LungNet Phone: (+61) 1800-654-3015 FOR MORE INFO The Alfred Sleep Disorders & Ventilatory Failure Service Home Snoring Sleep Disorders Child Sleep Disorders Obstructive Sleep Apnoea Glossary Staff Links Contact "Home" wrote in message

news:yXCc8.230$j7.17925@nasal.pacific.net.au… > I am a snorer in Melbourne Australia. I am looking for a clinic to help > treat my problems. > Does anyone know of someone they would recommend for treatment? > Thanks > Home.

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Response:

How much it cost to see a sleep specialist in the U.S?

admin — Fri, 19 Jan 2001 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

On Sun, 28 Jan 2001 06:49:37 -0500, surf_tol…@yahoo.com (Reid Savage) wrote: >If you live near canada and have a script in hand that would >be the place to go to buy that drug.

All is relative… it depends on how that integrates with your prescription drug plan (if any).

Response:

On 19 Jan 2001 18:55:04 GMT, youne…@aol.com (Younes64) wrote: >I can’t fall asleep at night and I have no health insurance. Thank you.

It cost me $2500 at my local hospital. I too am uninsured- I had to pay half up front, and they bill me monthly for the remainder. Most hospitals will allow some deal like that. Be aware though, you should see a regular doctor first. Some sleep clinics/labs/centers won’t do the study without an initial referral from a physician, and in most cases that physician will be the one prescribing treatment. Getting the referral may not be easy, the doctor will probably insist on routine bloodwork and a quick physical first. Bloodwork and chest pics cost me $300, factor in doctor office visits as well. So far, it’s cost me roughly $2000 out-of-pocket (not including the billed stuff) and I expect to pay another $1000 for treatment/equipment. Best of luck to you, I hope you find an affordable/manageable solution. Get it done though, sleep deprivation is a serious disorder that can’t be left unchecked. Saturn newbie Hooverhead

Response:

I would see a regular doctor or a regular doctor with knowledge of sleep disorders. You could go to a clinic which can be cheaper. You might do a search for insomnia and see if you can find a site for that. Prescriptions for sleeping are usually not given out long term. But that is not always the case and depends on the doctor. I went to a clinic once when I had no health coverage and it was very reasonable. You can call and find out the prices of any of the doctors you want to see. "Younes64" wrote in message

news:20010119135504.13074.00000232@ng-cf1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I can’t fall asleep at night and I have no health insurance. Thank you.

Response:

In article <20010119135504.13074.00000…@ng-cf1.aol.com>, youne…@aol.com (Younes64) wrote: > I can’t fall asleep at night and I have no health insurance. Thank you.

There are so many possible causes of insomnia and is important that you see some kind of doctor and discuss it. As far as over the counter sleep aids there are two class. Antihistamines and herbal remedies. Melotinin is a natural hormone that will induce drowsienes and is available over the counter but its bad to take it on a continous basis except on a low dose of 1mg. Just about all sleep meds you will develop a tolerance too meaning you will have to increase the dose. Many of the best and strongest sleeping pills can cause real dependance problems. This is why they are controlled substances. But they are presribed so much its not difficult to find them from someone. If you have any kind of sleep apnea (breathing stops for short periords while you sleep) the older long acting sleeping pills will make it worse. The 10 mg dose of ambien will also worsen apnea but its out of the body faster. Most doctors presribe 5 mg these days since 10mg dose of ambien will just get you tolerant faster. But it will overpower bad insomnia if you need to sleep and is very fast acting. 10 mg pills are actually cheaper. If you live near canada and have a script in hand that would be the place to go to buy that drug. Trazodone and some presrition antihistamines work well as milder sleeping pills. Trazodone is the safest and is not a controlled substance and is relativly cheap. I would try this if you can get into a clinic. The herbal remidies tend to be based around kava kava and valerian. The former is a strong depresant drug. If your depressed it is best avoided but its what give sleapytime extra its kick. I have used tylenol and melotonin with good results. I strongly dislike the benadryl antihistamine but it will induce some drowsiness. You must know how you react to that drug before taking the tylenol PM formaulations. I have had terible hangovers. Generly tylenol has a calming effect and the antihistamine causes most of the drowsiness effect. Avoid narcotic pain pills if you have apnea since these will worsen it. Even though I have tried them they never worked very well for me. But I was so wired at the time anyways. I have mild apnea and I refuse to take stuff at dosages that will cause anything more than a mild hangover. If you exaust the theraputic benifit of stronger sleeping sleeping pills you will have to go to trazodone (an older seditive antidepressant) or anti psychotic drugs that work better than trazodone but will leave you with a hangover intill your body develops a tolerance to the drug. Welcome to the relalities of using drugs. So there you go…a short lesson on modern sleeping pills. The old junk was really bad but thats a topic for another time. Reid

Response:

I can’t fall asleep at night and I have no health insurance. Thank you.

Response:

You have to ask yourself how much your health is worth to you and how much damage you are willing to tolerate before deciding to do something about it. — Rudy Benner