Sleep Pattern Disturbances

Question:

They *do* get into the ol’ ticker big time, don’t they? Judity – slave to the Siamese in SoCal "J" <jwoot…@execulink.com> wrote in message

news:3D7A9E29.D2757EB2@execulink.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> yep ! and around my heart <g> > Hugs > J > SPerloff wrote: > > Wow J, that cat has you wrapped around her paw!

Response:

Barbtoo, <snip> > I keep soft flannel sheets on the bed year-round. They feel good to my > painful joints. > I also keep one of those "egg-crate" foam mattress covers on the bed. It > seems to cushion those painful joints.

We actually finally got a new mattress (really needed one) a couple of weeks ago, which has the mattress cover, which helps.  My husband couldn’t stand my fussing, etc., and often goes to sleep in the other room.  He thought the mattress would make a big difference (so did I), but unfortunately that wasn’t the case. > Hope you find a way to get your nest made, so you have a good night’s > sleep……or at least a few hours in a row.

Thanks, I hope you do also!! Maureen

Response:

"Petty" <bwpe…@bellsouth.net> wrote in message

news:Bnye9.41458$%P6.10641151@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com… > Sleep disturbances are a regular thing for me. Either I am not sleeping > at night, or I want to sleep all the time.There is no "normal" sleep > pattern. LOL >  Most  often, the not sleeping is leading up to a "flare", or a > worsening of joint pain. So I take this as a warning, and try to cut > back on anything that might make it worse. > I keep soft flannel sheets on the bed year-round. They feel good to my > painful joints. > I also keep one of those "egg-crate" foam mattress covers on the bed. It > seems to cushion those painful joints.

I can’t get a decent nights sleep anywhere but home – because I’ve got the egg-crate here – and hotels usually don’t offer them.

Response:

Roll it up and carry it in a duffle bag with you.  You spend a lot of time away from home so maybe that would help.

Response:

"Eleanor" <ehur…@elp.rr.com> wrote in message

news:Z99f9.430400$q53.14707653@twister.austin.rr.com… > Roll it up and carry it in a duffle bag with you.  You spend a lot of time > away from home so maybe that would help.

I can just *see* me schlepping it alo . . . Hmmmm, you may have an idea worth pursuing!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -J wrote: > GrammarGirl123 wrote: >>Hope you’re all sound asleep by the time I post this… >>Sweet dreams, > You too Rebecca, > Nope, I wake up when others are finally (or) sleeping. > Doesn’t matter what time I take my meds, I go to sleep between 9:30 and 11:30 and > I’m up between 2 and 4′ish (unless something unusual happens) .  The other form of > insomnia due to a variety of causes, including pain. > So I think I should have been born a cat <g> > Oh and if I have an exceptionally good night and get say, 5 hours sleep, then my > cat does wake me with her wet nose in my face "time to go out for our walk" > nudgies.  She’s spoiled and manipulative. > Right now, she’s lying right in front of me , on the desk, purring and if I don’t > stop typing soon, her paw is heading for the keyboard. She presses on one of the > keys so I’ll stop and pay attention to her. > So some of my posts can end up looking like this. > uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu > Gotta go. > J

Wow J, that cat has you wrapped around her paw! -Sharon — Clear your mind, relax and float downstream. To email me, remove NOSPAM

Response:

yep ! and around my heart <g> Hugs J – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -SPerloff wrote: > Wow J, that cat has you wrapped around her paw!

Response:

J, <snip> > I had a rule though, no caffeine (drinks, foods, meds)

after noon. No, I don’t drink much caffeine, and when I do it’s just first thing in the morning. > My brother has to take 50 mg to knock him out. > Have you been checked for anemia or sleep disorders (apnea, restless > leg)?

Well, I’ve been having regular blood work done, as I’m on Imuran, and so far my bloods been okay.  Still in the normal range, although last time my white blood cell count was a little lower, though GI said it was nothing to be concerned about yet.  I don’t have sleep apnea as far as I know (that’s when you stop breathing?), nor restless leg.  I’ve had high blood pressure recently, and I’m on meds. for that, could high blood pressure be a problem?  I do have a problem with rashes that come and go, and this sometimes causes problems also of itchiness and burns like crazy.  I’ve been using witch hazel on them, which doesn’t work that well. > IF you’ve got both (FM and Lupus), you might find more help here with > the meds.

Well, I haven’t been diagnosed with either, as of yet.  I have Ulcerative Colitis, but have had Lupus like symptoms since this summer, on and off.  I go back to the doctor next week, I’ve never received the results of the blood work that I had done last.  It was for Creatine, Anti-ANA.  Obviously, they didn’t find anything of concern, or they would have phoned I think. Maureen

Response:

BJ, <snip> > My reason for not sleeping during a lupus flare is the pain. I get intense > burning. I used icepacks all of the time. The bone and muscle pain were > incredible.

The joint pain (mostly in my hands), and muscle pain that I have don’t occur at night, luckily.  The joint pain that I get is when I using that joint, for instance, the joints in my fingers hurt when I close my hand. Maureen

Response:

Maureen wrote: > Well, I haven’t been diagnosed with either, as of yet.  I > have Ulcerative Colitis, but have had Lupus like symptoms > since this summer, on and off.  I go back to the doctor next > week, I’ve never received the results of the blood work that > I had done last.  It was for Creatine, Anti-ANA.  Obviously, > they didn’t find anything of concern, or they would have > phoned I think.

Not necessarily Maureen. Do ask for a copy of the bloodwork (now and future). BP medicines can cause DILE – drug-induced Lupus (like symptoms) As to the sleep apnea or RLS, the only way to know for sure is to get a sleep test. I had 4 years of increasingly worse sleep, had no idea I had RLS/myoclonus until I saw a public announcement on TV, so I self-diagnosed, then went to the doctor and asked to be tested. The only other clue was that my cats stopped sleeping on the bed during those years.  (guess I was kicking them off with the twitching/jerking leg thing)..and that ticked them off..now they’re back <G> HTH J

Response:

J, <snip> > BP medicines can cause DILE – drug-induced Lupus (like

symptoms) No, I know it’s not the BP meds., as I just started on them after I went to the doctor regarding the Lupus (like) problems.  When I told him about my symptoms, he took my blood pressure, which he usually does when I go in, and found it at 160/99, which is really high for me.  So, my thinking on this is that whatever is causing the Lupus (like) symptoms was causing the blood pressure problems. > I had 4 years of increasingly worse sleep, had no idea I had > RLS/myoclonus until I saw a public announcement on TV, so I > self-diagnosed, then went to the doctor and asked to be

tested. This may be something I’ll check out, although I feel it’s seems worse when I’m having other symptoms, but who knows. > The only other clue was that my cats stopped sleeping on the bed during > those years.  (guess I was kicking them off with the twitching/jerking > leg thing)..and that ticked them off..now they’re back <G>

Mmmm….well my cats are still sleeping on the bed.  Mind you I toss and turn alot, and that doesn’t seem to discourage them <g> Maureen

Response:

Hi Maureen, I took Elavil for about 12 years and it knocked me out (until the sleep disorders started).  I had a rule though, no caffeine (drinks, foods, meds) after noon. My brother has to take 50 mg to knock him out. Have you been checked for anemia or sleep disorders (apnea, restless leg)? BJ’s got anemia which causes low oxygen-carrying ability in the bloods, so a form of apnea. Actually one of the causes of restless leg is anemia.  Have you been checked on anemia? Some pain or A/D meds give me insomnia (can’t get to sleep)..so it’s complicated. IF you’ve got both (FM and Lupus), you might find more help here with the meds. JMO J – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Maureen wrote: > BJ, > This is how I am lately.  I will sleep for maybe 20 mins., > then wake up.  Sometimes I can sleep through the whole night > like this, waking up, then falling asleep.  Other times, > once I’ve slept for 20 mins., I can’t get back to sleep at > all….this is the worse of the two.  I take 25mg. of > Amitriptyline before I go to bed which my GI prescribed for > sleep/pain.  It used to work very well, but now I guess I’ve > become used to it. > Maybe my problems are more related to FM than Lupus? > Maureen > "BJ" <B…@sk.nojunk.ca> wrote in message > news:unk7lr3hvsjid2@corp.supernews.com… > > Hi Maureen, > > I only sleep for ten minute intervals for a total of about > two hours in a > > twenty-four hour period when I am in a flare. I have to > sleep sitting up in > > order to breath. When I am in a wellness period, sleep > comes easy. In fact, > > I need a lot of rest, and sleep too much. I have a friend > with FM. She has > > trouble getting to sleep, and staying asleep.She says that > this is a common > > problem for people with FM. > > BJ-Sk. Canada > > "Maureen" <BlueEyedMoeNOS…@telus.net> wrote in message > > news:Wsbe9.285$_J3.44314@news0.telusplanet.net… > > > Hi, > > > Was just wondering if anyone has noticed that their > sleep > > > pattern has become disturbed since becoming ill?  In the > > > past couple of years I’ve had a terrible time getting to > > > sleep, and then staying asleep.  I’ll wake at the > slightest > > > noise, etc. > > > Kind of wondering, after reading that article on > > > Fibromyalgia, if there would be a correlation with brain > > > changes and changes in sleep? > > > Maureen

Response:

I wasn’t getting REM sleep my rheme has me taking .75mg of desyrel before bed. It has worked wonders. I have felt so much better. BJC

Response:

HI BJC Trazadone http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/uspdi/202573.html No gastro problems with it? Thanks J – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -BJCeder wrote: > I wasn’t getting REM sleep my rheme has me taking .75mg of desyrel before bed. > It has worked wonders. I have felt so much better. > BJC

Response:

Maureen, My reason for not sleeping during a lupus flare is the pain. I get intense burning. I used icepacks all of the time. The bone and muscle pain were incredible. Add that to not being able to breath and you soon become sleep deprived. I think now, when I am okay, I get 10-11 hours of good sleep. I wish that for you and others who can not sleep. BJ-Sk. "Maureen" <BlueEyedMoeNOS…@telus.net> wrote in message

news:wSpe9.3224$Qx1.137750@news1.telusplanet.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> BJ, > This is how I am lately.  I will sleep for maybe 20 mins., > then wake up.  Sometimes I can sleep through the whole night > like this, waking up, then falling asleep.  Other times, > once I’ve slept for 20 mins., I can’t get back to sleep at > all….this is the worse of the two.  I take 25mg. of > Amitriptyline before I go to bed which my GI prescribed for > sleep/pain.  It used to work very well, but now I guess I’ve > become used to it. > Maybe my problems are more related to FM than Lupus? > Maureen > "BJ" <B…@sk.nojunk.ca> wrote in message > news:unk7lr3hvsjid2@corp.supernews.com… > > Hi Maureen, > > I only sleep for ten minute intervals for a total of about > two hours in a > > twenty-four hour period when I am in a flare. I have to > sleep sitting up in > > order to breath. When I am in a wellness period, sleep > comes easy. In fact, > > I need a lot of rest, and sleep too much. I have a friend > with FM. She has > > trouble getting to sleep, and staying asleep.She says that > this is a common > > problem for people with FM. > > BJ-Sk. Canada > > "Maureen" <BlueEyedMoeNOS…@telus.net> wrote in message > > news:Wsbe9.285$_J3.44314@news0.telusplanet.net… > > > Hi, > > > Was just wondering if anyone has noticed that their > sleep > > > pattern has become disturbed since becoming ill?  In the > > > past couple of years I’ve had a terrible time getting to > > > sleep, and then staying asleep.  I’ll wake at the > slightest > > > noise, etc. > > > Kind of wondering, after reading that article on > > > Fibromyalgia, if there would be a correlation with brain > > > changes and changes in sleep? > > > Maureen

Response:

BJ, This is how I am lately.  I will sleep for maybe 20 mins., then wake up.  Sometimes I can sleep through the whole night like this, waking up, then falling asleep.  Other times, once I’ve slept for 20 mins., I can’t get back to sleep at all….this is the worse of the two.  I take 25mg. of Amitriptyline before I go to bed which my GI prescribed for sleep/pain.  It used to work very well, but now I guess I’ve become used to it. Maybe my problems are more related to FM than Lupus? Maureen "BJ" <B…@sk.nojunk.ca> wrote in message

news:unk7lr3hvsjid2@corp.supernews.com… > Hi Maureen, > I only sleep for ten minute intervals for a total of about two hours in a > twenty-four hour period when I am in a flare. I have to sleep sitting up in > order to breath. When I am in a wellness period, sleep

comes easy. In fact, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I need a lot of rest, and sleep too much. I have a friend with FM. She has > trouble getting to sleep, and staying asleep.She says that this is a common > problem for people with FM. > BJ-Sk. Canada > "Maureen" <BlueEyedMoeNOS…@telus.net> wrote in message > news:Wsbe9.285$_J3.44314@news0.telusplanet.net… > > Hi, > > Was just wondering if anyone has noticed that their sleep > > pattern has become disturbed since becoming ill?  In the > > past couple of years I’ve had a terrible time getting to > > sleep, and then staying asleep.  I’ll wake at the slightest > > noise, etc. > > Kind of wondering, after reading that article on > > Fibromyalgia, if there would be a correlation with brain > > changes and changes in sleep? > > Maureen

Response:

GrammarGirl123 wrote: > Don’t know about brain changes and all, but I’ve had trouble sleeping since I > was a kid and go through bouts of insomnia 2-3 times a year. They say that can > be one of the things — bad sleep — that either causes or triggers > fibromyalgia. I take enough meds at night to put a small horse into a coma, but > I can still barely sleep. That’s been one of the big changes in the past couple > of weeks I’ve been on Plaquenil — all of a sudden, I can’t get to sleep much > before 1 or 2 in the morning. Then it’s hard to wake up because of all the > drugs. I’ve gone from going to bed almost as soon as I get home from work, to > being up until the wee hours… Oh well. I get a lot more reading done this > way. > @:-[ > Rebecca

I didn’t know that insomnia was thought to have triggered some people’s fms.  That’s interesting, because as a teen, I suffered three week intervals of insomnia, a couple of times a year like you.  I ended up with FMS.  Hmmmmm, maybe this is what caused it. -Sharon — Clear your mind, relax and float downstream. To email me, remove NOSPAM

Response:

Hi Sharon, you sweet thing. Yes, I’ve read that they think poor sleep either causes FMS or that it triggers something else — like a virus. Maybe if I started taking all the meds about 7 o’clock, I could get to bed by 10 or 11 like normal people… Hope you’re all sound asleep by the time I post this… Sweet dreams, Rebecca

Response:

GrammarGirl123 wrote: > Hope you’re all sound asleep by the time I post this… > Sweet dreams,

You too Rebecca, Nope, I wake up when others are finally (or) sleeping. Doesn’t matter what time I take my meds, I go to sleep between 9:30 and 11:30 and I’m up between 2 and 4′ish (unless something unusual happens) .  The other form of insomnia due to a variety of causes, including pain. So I think I should have been born a cat <g> Oh and if I have an exceptionally good night and get say, 5 hours sleep, then my cat does wake me with her wet nose in my face "time to go out for our walk" nudgies.  She’s spoiled and manipulative. Right now, she’s lying right in front of me , on the desk, purring and if I don’t stop typing soon, her paw is heading for the keyboard. She presses on one of the keys so I’ll stop and pay attention to her. So some of my posts can end up looking like this. uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu Gotta go. J

Response:

"Maureen" <BlueEyedMoeNOS…@telus.net> wrote in message

news:Wsbe9.285$_J3.44314@news0.telusplanet.net… > Hi, > Was just wondering if anyone has noticed that their sleep > pattern has become disturbed since becoming ill?  In the > past couple of years I’ve had a terrible time getting to > sleep, and then staying asleep.  I’ll wake at the slightest > noise, etc. > Kind of wondering, after reading that article on > Fibromyalgia, if there would be a correlation with brain > changes and changes in sleep?

I’ll go weeks on end with very little/easily broken sleep.  Generally, this is a precursor to a flare.  I try and break the cycle by taking a Soma an hour before bed, and a warm shower.

Response:

Hi Maureen, I only sleep for ten minute intervals for a total of about two hours in a twenty-four hour period when I am in a flare. I have to sleep sitting up in order to breath. When I am in a wellness period, sleep comes easy. In fact, I need a lot of rest, and sleep too much. I have a friend with FM. She has trouble getting to sleep, and staying asleep.She says that this is a common problem for people with FM. BJ-Sk. Canada "Maureen" <BlueEyedMoeNOS…@telus.net> wrote in message

news:Wsbe9.285$_J3.44314@news0.telusplanet.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi, > Was just wondering if anyone has noticed that their sleep > pattern has become disturbed since becoming ill?  In the > past couple of years I’ve had a terrible time getting to > sleep, and then staying asleep.  I’ll wake at the slightest > noise, etc. > Kind of wondering, after reading that article on > Fibromyalgia, if there would be a correlation with brain > changes and changes in sleep? > Maureen

Response:

Hi, Was just wondering if anyone has noticed that their sleep pattern has become disturbed since becoming ill?  In the past couple of years I’ve had a terrible time getting to sleep, and then staying asleep.  I’ll wake at the slightest noise, etc. Kind of wondering, after reading that article on Fibromyalgia, if there would be a correlation with brain changes and changes in sleep? Maureen

Response:

Don’t know about brain changes and all, but I’ve had trouble sleeping since I was a kid and go through bouts of insomnia 2-3 times a year. They say that can be one of the things — bad sleep — that either causes or triggers fibromyalgia. I take enough meds at night to put a small horse into a coma, but I can still barely sleep. That’s been one of the big changes in the past couple of weeks I’ve been on Plaquenil — all of a sudden, I can’t get to sleep much before 1 or 2 in the morning. Then it’s hard to wake up because of all the drugs. I’ve gone from going to bed almost as soon as I get home from work, to being up until the wee hours… Oh well. I get a lot more reading done this way. @:-[ Rebecca

Response:

update – my brother

Question:

Yes J,  Hashi’s is autoimmune. BJ-Sk. who also has it. "J" <jwoot…@execulink.com> wrote in message

news:3D0D025C.1F43D5FF@execulink.com… > KC wrote: > > On Sat, 15 Jun 2002 13:54:17 -0400, J <jwoot…@execulink.com> wrote: > > >Should he just call and ask, based on the high ANA? > Well I put the "fear of God" in him on the phone and said "Dave, think

about it, since 4 of us had/have > thyroid/autoimmune, you have high ANA and uncle had Lupus, aren’t you

worried about your kids?"…(maybe that’ll > motivate him). > (well, maybe Dad’s thyroid didn’t count, it went on him in older years)

but all 3 of us siblings have thyroid.  I’m > the only one who has my report that says Hashi’s. (which is autoimmune right?) > >   Even if they can’t say > > "yeah, sounds like lupus" they might at least express the concern that > > the ANA titre is high enough to indicate some kind of autoimmune > > process. > hope so, hope he calls them and their number isn’t just to collect

donations and/or send out the package but will get > someone authoritative who’ll tell him to get to a rheumy. > >  I don’t know how conservative the folks up there are when it > > comes to treating/diagnosing AI disease.  I think most gps in my area > > would see 1:1280 and ship me off to a rheumy immediately – not > > assuming lupus but just knowing that this number isn’t a false > > positive. most would do so at 1:640 probably.  I am amazed by his doc > > and hope that that doc doesn’t represent the "norm". > Dave keeps saying "don’t forget the doc’s new at this, he used to be a

teacher, only been doctoring for about 6 or 7 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> years". > > what about his history – shouldn’t that be taken into consideration. > > I mean, your symptoms (dx?) and any other family members that might > > have had autoimmune problems. we know that AI disease tends to be a > > familial predisposition.  if the doc doesn’t know your situation or > > know that genetic predisposition plays a role then he *should* be > > informed.  Likewise, if your brother tells the lupus org. that he has > > a family history with AI disease than I imagine that ANA titre will > > look even more suspicious to them. > > Perhaps they can send info to his doctor?  or would his doc be > > terribly offended by that. > Dunno, I already had them send a package out to Dave and he lost it > I mean it’s there somewhere, in bags, or boxes.  His organizational

abilities are rather lacking. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Thanks for caring KCat, appreciate it. > J

Response:

On Sun, 16 Jun 2002 17:25:48 -0400, J <jwoot…@execulink.com> wrote: >motivate him). >(well, maybe Dad’s thyroid didn’t count, it went on him in older years) but all 3 of us siblings have thyroid.  I’m >the only one who has my report that says Hashi’s. (which is autoimmune right?)

yup >hope so, hope he calls them and their number isn’t just to collect donations and/or send out the package but will get >someone authoritative who’ll tell him to get to a rheumy.

me too.  <fingers crossed> >Dunno, I already had them send a package out to Dave and he lost it >I mean it’s there somewhere, in bags, or boxes.  His organizational abilities are rather lacking.

dave’s or the doc’s?  if dave’s, well, isn’t that just like the rest of us. about once a year I get organized – for about 24 hours. >Thanks for caring KCat, appreciate it. >J

Thanks for being such a wonderful, contributing member of this group.

Response:

Thanks Bev, His sugar levels are being monitored.  That his doc knows how to do. Perhaps I’m just over-worrying (about the losing weight). Will see how he is next time he calls. J – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Beverley wrote: > Another thought. > Diabetes will cause sudden weight loss for no apparent reason to the one > losing the weight. > Bev (P&E) > "J" <jwoot…@execulink.com> wrote in message > news:3D0C5A8D.93531CBF@execulink.com… > > And as an afterthought, he’d been trying everything under the sun to lose > > weight (for several years now) and suddenly w/o even trying, he’s dropping > 3 > > pounds a week ! On the face of it, since he was overweight, this looked > like a > > good thing

Response:

Another thought. Diabetes will cause sudden weight loss for no apparent reason to the one losing the weight. Bev (P&E) "J" <jwoot…@execulink.com> wrote in message

news:3D0C5A8D.93531CBF@execulink.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Ironicly, he keeps reminding me that years ago, he’s the one who diagnosed our > uncle and told Uncle to get to a rheumy ASAP! > I have the same concerns as you..waiting for the other shoe to drop thingey. > And as an afterthought, he’d been trying everything under the sun to lose > weight (for several years now) and suddenly w/o even trying, he’s dropping 3 > pounds a week ! On the face of it, since he was overweight, this looked like a > good thing, but now I’m wondering. > J (bet he doesn’t understand that long after I’m gone, his on-going Lupus story > is permanently archived in Usenet <g> > Beverley wrote: > > What concerns me is with that high of an ANA what is going to be attacked? > > And seriously attacked! > > Bev

Response:

KC wrote: > On Sat, 15 Jun 2002 13:54:17 -0400, J <jwoot…@execulink.com> wrote: > >Should he just call and ask, based on the high ANA?

Well I put the "fear of God" in him on the phone and said "Dave, think about it, since 4 of us had/have thyroid/autoimmune, you have high ANA and uncle had Lupus, aren’t you worried about your kids?"…(maybe that’ll motivate him). (well, maybe Dad’s thyroid didn’t count, it went on him in older years) but all 3 of us siblings have thyroid.  I’m the only one who has my report that says Hashi’s. (which is autoimmune right?) >   Even if they can’t say > "yeah, sounds like lupus" they might at least express the concern that > the ANA titre is high enough to indicate some kind of autoimmune > process.

hope so, hope he calls them and their number isn’t just to collect donations and/or send out the package but will get someone authoritative who’ll tell him to get to a rheumy. >  I don’t know how conservative the folks up there are when it > comes to treating/diagnosing AI disease.  I think most gps in my area > would see 1:1280 and ship me off to a rheumy immediately – not > assuming lupus but just knowing that this number isn’t a false > positive. most would do so at 1:640 probably.  I am amazed by his doc > and hope that that doc doesn’t represent the "norm".

Dave keeps saying "don’t forget the doc’s new at this, he used to be a teacher, only been doctoring for about 6 or 7 years". > what about his history – shouldn’t that be taken into consideration. > I mean, your symptoms (dx?) and any other family members that might > have had autoimmune problems. we know that AI disease tends to be a > familial predisposition.  if the doc doesn’t know your situation or > know that genetic predisposition plays a role then he *should* be > informed.  Likewise, if your brother tells the lupus org. that he has > a family history with AI disease than I imagine that ANA titre will > look even more suspicious to them. > Perhaps they can send info to his doctor?  or would his doc be > terribly offended by that.

Dunno, I already had them send a package out to Dave and he lost it I mean it’s there somewhere, in bags, or boxes.  His organizational abilities are rather lacking. Thanks for caring KCat, appreciate it. J

Response:

Typical macho male thing. They can handle anything, they are so strong and tough. Bev "J" <jwoot…@execulink.com> wrote in message

news:3D0B7F49.C88C80E2@execulink.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> KC wrote: > > if the ANA were 1:160 or lower I’d say "eh…don’t bother yet". > > but it’s relatively high and he’s had symptoms too hasn’t he?  so it > > wouldn’t be "just" for the ANA? > he can’t sort out the symptom bit. so he wants to just ask them if 1:1280 is > high enough to warrant being referred to a rheumy.  I keep explaining that > if he’s going to do that: > a) explain to them that other causes have been ruled out > b) give them a list of the symptoms he’s having too… > Should he just call and ask, based on the high ANA? > J > > maybe you should call the Cndn lupus org and say "my brother tried to > > call but couldn’t get through – could you call him back at xxx-xxxx > > and help him out?" > > heh… but my brothers (even the Scot I talk to here) would probably > > kick my virtual backside if I did that! > errr…Bruce?  well, I’m not totally convinced, he’s not another male in > denial, what do ya think? > > ah… I just worry about him and you.  this can’t be good to go > > without getting decent treatment (as I see it). > > take care and let him know we think of him and keep him in our > > thoughts and prayers. > > love, kcat > Thank you ! > Here’s what’s funny, when I told him about my symptoms, ANA positive, hair > loss etc.. he says "better get to a rheumy" LOL > J

Response:

Well, he’s been kind of asking me about this calling the Lupus Foundation and I’ve been waffling (afraid he wouldn’t tell his symptoms and they’d say "oh, it’s probably nothing"). Last night I e-mailed him to go for it (and included some snippets of information). Since it’s an 800 number and he now has access to a computer at work, maybe he’ll call on his break. J- hoping the Cdn Lupus foundation will answer the phone and tell him to get to a rheumy ASAP – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Beverley wrote: > Typical macho male thing. They can handle anything, they are so strong and > tough. > Bev

Response:

Ironicly, he keeps reminding me that years ago, he’s the one who diagnosed our uncle and told Uncle to get to a rheumy ASAP! I have the same concerns as you..waiting for the other shoe to drop thingey. And as an afterthought, he’d been trying everything under the sun to lose weight (for several years now) and suddenly w/o even trying, he’s dropping 3 pounds a week ! On the face of it, since he was overweight, this looked like a good thing, but now I’m wondering. J (bet he doesn’t understand that long after I’m gone, his on-going Lupus story is permanently archived in Usenet <g> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Beverley wrote: > What concerns me is with that high of an ANA what is going to be attacked? > And seriously attacked! > Bev

Response:

On Sat, 15 Jun 2002 13:54:17 -0400, J <jwoot…@execulink.com> wrote: >a) explain to them that other causes have been ruled out >b) give them a list of the symptoms he’s having too… >Should he just call and ask, based on the high ANA? >J

well – if he just absolutely won’t do more than that then it’s probably worth it.  But I agree with you – he should say that he’s had other symptoms that concern him if he can.   Even if they can’t say "yeah, sounds like lupus" they might at least express the concern that the ANA titre is high enough to indicate some kind of autoimmune process.  I don’t know how conservative the folks up there are when it comes to treating/diagnosing AI disease.  I think most gps in my area would see 1:1280 and ship me off to a rheumy immediately – not assuming lupus but just knowing that this number isn’t a false positive. most would do so at 1:640 probably.  I am amazed by his doc and hope that that doc doesn’t represent the "norm". what about his history – shouldn’t that be taken into consideration. I mean, your symptoms (dx?) and any other family members that might have had autoimmune problems. we know that AI disease tends to be a familial predisposition.  if the doc doesn’t know your situation or know that genetic predisposition plays a role then he *should* be informed.  Likewise, if your brother tells the lupus org. that he has a family history with AI disease than I imagine that ANA titre will look even more suspicious to them. Perhaps they can send info to his doctor?  or would his doc be terribly offended by that.  My daughter’s doc appreciates any new info – but he’s special. >well, I’m not totally convinced, he’s not another male in >denial, what do ya think?

<stepping lightly> Sometimes they just think they can handle all this stuff on their own.  FWIW, I’ve seen plenty of lupie females in this same frame of mind. KCat – I am not a medical professional.  The contents of this post are based soley on my experiences and opinions http://www.ghg.net/schwerpt/mypage.htm http://www.ghg.net/schwerpt/aslfaq30.htm   ("`-”-/").___..–”"`-._   (`6_ 6  )   `-.  (     ).`-.__.’`)    (_Y_.)’  ._   )  `._ `. “-..-”   _..`–’_..-_/  /–’_.’ ,’ (()),-”  (()),’    (((.-’

Response:

Called last night. He’s doing well with the CPAP, sleeping well, enjoys his job (low stress & not hard on the body), getting things done around his home.  Eating better and losing weight w/o trying.  Good thing !  He’d gotten overweight from intermittent boredom at his last job and accessibility of fast-foods. (and probably inactivity..sleepinig too much to make up for poor sleep) Looking forward to his next vacation, whenever (year or so)..hope it’s not a sun-place like the Mexico one he went to few years back. Referral to rheumy:  his doctor seems to think there’s no need to expedite this unless Dave gets into crisis and/or his ANA starts increasing.  Apparently his doctor used to be a teacher, just been a doctor for 5 or 6 years. ANA: (and thyroid and sugar levels) get rechecked in September.  Dave’s theory is that either the sleep apnea (long-standing un’dx’d) and/or thyroid were making it high (1:1280) and is hoping that by September it’ll be lower.  Seems like both he and his doctor are concerned about appearing foolish to a rheumy for a referral for high ANA. (Every phone call, he’s muttered something about calling the Cdn Lupus foundation to ask them if that ANA reading is enough to warrant going to a rheumy). Says he stays mostly out of the sun when outside, is now drinking tea (again) while working outdoors and seems to get less dehydrated (muscle cramps) and sleeps better through the night His only other complaint was about a sore on his lip which he thinks is a cold sore. (I told him about Lupie sores, so he can’t say I didn’t warn him). That’s it. J

Response:

Hi J, It sounds like things have improved quite a bit with your brother. That must be a load off your mind. I know I worry about my brother too. He is so overweight that it is a concern. My Dad died of a heart attack at age 53. I guess we can’t do much about it, but we love them so it is on the mind. Glad to hear your good news. BJ-in sunny, warm Sk. "J" <jwoot…@execulink.com> wrote in message

news:3D0AFB72.86F40834@execulink.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Called last night. > He’s doing well with the CPAP, sleeping well, enjoys his job (low stress > & not hard on the body), getting things done around his home.  Eating > better and losing weight w/o trying.  Good thing !  He’d gotten > overweight from intermittent boredom at his last job and accessibility > of fast-foods. (and probably inactivity..sleepinig too much to make up > for poor sleep) > Looking forward to his next vacation, whenever (year or so)..hope it’s > not a sun-place like the Mexico one he went to few years back. > Referral to rheumy:  his doctor seems to think there’s no need to > expedite this unless Dave gets into crisis and/or his ANA starts > increasing.  Apparently his doctor used to be a teacher, just been a > doctor for 5 or 6 years. > ANA: (and thyroid and sugar levels) get rechecked in September.  Dave’s > theory is that either the sleep apnea (long-standing un’dx’d) and/or > thyroid were making it high (1:1280) and is hoping that by September > it’ll be lower.  Seems like both he and his doctor are concerned about > appearing foolish to a rheumy for a referral for high ANA. (Every phone > call, he’s muttered something about calling the Cdn Lupus foundation to > ask them if that ANA reading is enough to warrant going to a rheumy). > Says he stays mostly out of the sun when outside, is now drinking tea > (again) while working outdoors and seems to get less dehydrated (muscle > cramps) and sleeps better through the night > His only other complaint was about a sore on his lip which he thinks is > a cold sore. (I told him about Lupie sores, so he can’t say I didn’t > warn him). > That’s it. > J

Response:

Thanks Sherry, Gosh, I get tired of coming whining to you folks. You’re right.  The ANA has got to mean something (and for 17? years now he’s been 1:640 and then 1:1280) and still no rheumy.. whine, whine, whine…<g> Hugs back to you J PS Maybe the good thing about this is that "readers" can see how ignoring their health and/or being reluctant to go to rheumy can affect close relatives. (esp worriers)? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Eleanor wrote: > J, glad to hear that your brother is getting a better nights sleep with his > CPAP…but the ANA has got to mean something and a referral to a Rheumy with > the test results and the symptoms is (IMHO) warranted.

Response:

What concerns me is with that high of an ANA what is going to be attacked? And seriously attacked! Bev "J" <jwoot…@execulink.com> wrote in message

news:3D0B845F.623877A4@execulink.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Well, when you’re really, really sick for years, once one of the problems has > been rectified, one tends to think they’re doing fantabulous, it’s all > relative, right? > J > Beverley wrote: > > Glad to hear he’s doing well but with that ANA???? > > Bev > > "J" <jwoot…@execulink.com> wrote in message > > news:3D0AFB72.86F40834@execulink.com… > > > C[] > > > ANA: (and thyroid and sugar levels) get rechecked in September. Dave’s > > > theory is that either the sleep apnea (long-standing un’dx’d) and/or > > > thyroid were making it high (1:1280) and is hoping that by September > > > it’ll be lower.[]

Response:

How nice to hear good news about your brother! "J" <jwoot…@execulink.com> wrote in message

news:3D0AFB72.86F40834@execulink.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Called last night. > He’s doing well with the CPAP, sleeping well, enjoys his job (low stress > & not hard on the body), getting things done around his home.  Eating > better and losing weight w/o trying.  Good thing !  He’d gotten > overweight from intermittent boredom at his last job and accessibility > of fast-foods. (and probably inactivity..sleepinig too much to make up > for poor sleep) > Looking forward to his next vacation, whenever (year or so)..hope it’s > not a sun-place like the Mexico one he went to few years back. > Referral to rheumy:  his doctor seems to think there’s no need to > expedite this unless Dave gets into crisis and/or his ANA starts > increasing.  Apparently his doctor used to be a teacher, just been a > doctor for 5 or 6 years. > ANA: (and thyroid and sugar levels) get rechecked in September.  Dave’s > theory is that either the sleep apnea (long-standing un’dx’d) and/or > thyroid were making it high (1:1280) and is hoping that by September > it’ll be lower.  Seems like both he and his doctor are concerned about > appearing foolish to a rheumy for a referral for high ANA. (Every phone > call, he’s muttered something about calling the Cdn Lupus foundation to > ask them if that ANA reading is enough to warrant going to a rheumy). > Says he stays mostly out of the sun when outside, is now drinking tea > (again) while working outdoors and seems to get less dehydrated (muscle > cramps) and sleeps better through the night > His only other complaint was about a sore on his lip which he thinks is > a cold sore. (I told him about Lupie sores, so he can’t say I didn’t > warn him). > That’s it. > J

Response:

Well, when you’re really, really sick for years, once one of the problems has been rectified, one tends to think they’re doing fantabulous, it’s all relative, right? J – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Beverley wrote: > Glad to hear he’s doing well but with that ANA???? > Bev > "J" <jwoot…@execulink.com> wrote in message > news:3D0AFB72.86F40834@execulink.com… > > C[] > > ANA: (and thyroid and sugar levels) get rechecked in September.  Dave’s > > theory is that either the sleep apnea (long-standing un’dx’d) and/or > > thyroid were making it high (1:1280) and is hoping that by September > > it’ll be lower.[]

Response:

Glad to hear he’s doing well but with that ANA???? Bev "J" <jwoot…@execulink.com> wrote in message

news:3D0AFB72.86F40834@execulink.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Called last night. > He’s doing well with the CPAP, sleeping well, enjoys his job (low stress > & not hard on the body), getting things done around his home.  Eating > better and losing weight w/o trying.  Good thing !  He’d gotten > overweight from intermittent boredom at his last job and accessibility > of fast-foods. (and probably inactivity..sleepinig too much to make up > for poor sleep) > Looking forward to his next vacation, whenever (year or so)..hope it’s > not a sun-place like the Mexico one he went to few years back. > Referral to rheumy:  his doctor seems to think there’s no need to > expedite this unless Dave gets into crisis and/or his ANA starts > increasing.  Apparently his doctor used to be a teacher, just been a > doctor for 5 or 6 years. > ANA: (and thyroid and sugar levels) get rechecked in September.  Dave’s > theory is that either the sleep apnea (long-standing un’dx’d) and/or > thyroid were making it high (1:1280) and is hoping that by September > it’ll be lower.  Seems like both he and his doctor are concerned about > appearing foolish to a rheumy for a referral for high ANA. (Every phone > call, he’s muttered something about calling the Cdn Lupus foundation to > ask them if that ANA reading is enough to warrant going to a rheumy). > Says he stays mostly out of the sun when outside, is now drinking tea > (again) while working outdoors and seems to get less dehydrated (muscle > cramps) and sleeps better through the night > His only other complaint was about a sore on his lip which he thinks is > a cold sore. (I told him about Lupie sores, so he can’t say I didn’t > warn him). > That’s it. > J

Response:

KC wrote: > if the ANA were 1:160 or lower I’d say "eh…don’t bother yet". > but it’s relatively high and he’s had symptoms too hasn’t he?  so it > wouldn’t be "just" for the ANA?

he can’t sort out the symptom bit. so he wants to just ask them if 1:1280 is high enough to warrant being referred to a rheumy.  I keep explaining that if he’s going to do that: a) explain to them that other causes have been ruled out b) give them a list of the symptoms he’s having too… Should he just call and ask, based on the high ANA? J > maybe you should call the Cndn lupus org and say "my brother tried to > call but couldn’t get through – could you call him back at xxx-xxxx > and help him out?" > heh… but my brothers (even the Scot I talk to here) would probably > kick my virtual backside if I did that!

errr…Bruce?  well, I’m not totally convinced, he’s not another male in denial, what do ya think? > ah… I just worry about him and you.  this can’t be good to go > without getting decent treatment (as I see it). > take care and let him know we think of him and keep him in our > thoughts and prayers. > love, kcat

Thank you ! Here’s what’s funny, when I told him about my symptoms, ANA positive, hair loss etc.. he says "better get to a rheumy" LOL J

Response:

On Sat, 15 Jun 2002 04:31:46 -0400, J <jwoot…@execulink.com> wrote: >Says he stays mostly out of the sun when outside, is now drinking tea >(again) while working outdoors and seems to get less dehydrated (muscle >cramps) and sleeps better through the night >His only other complaint was about a sore on his lip which he thinks is >a cold sore. (I told him about Lupie sores, so he can’t say I didn’t >warn him).

Thanks, J.  You know what I’d say to him if I could so I’ll just leave it at that. okay – no I won’t.  tea is "okay" if he’s drinking enough – but it is a mild diuretic.  WATER WATER WATER.  (sorry – trying to yell to his part of the world). if the ANA were 1:160 or lower I’d say "eh…don’t bother yet". but it’s relatively high and he’s had symptoms too hasn’t he?  so it wouldn’t be "just" for the ANA? maybe you should call the Cndn lupus org and say "my brother tried to call but couldn’t get through – could you call him back at xxx-xxxx and help him out?" heh… but my brothers (even the Scot I talk to here) would probably kick my virtual backside if I did that! ah… I just worry about him and you.  this can’t be good to go without getting decent treatment (as I see it). take care and let him know we think of him and keep him in our thoughts and prayers. love, kcat

Response:

J, glad to hear that your brother is getting a better nights sleep with his CPAP…but the ANA has got to mean something and a referral to a Rheumy with the test results and the symptoms is (IMHO) warranted. As KC has already pointed out tea is better than not drinking but he needs to add just plain water to his regime.  Being that tea and coffee are dehydrating as are things like beer. Hugs, Sherry

Response:

KC wrote: > On Sat, 15 Jun 2002 04:31:46 -0400, J <jwoot…@execulink.com> wrote: > >Says he stays mostly out of the sun when outside, is now drinking tea > >(again) while working outdoors and seems to get less dehydrated (muscle > >cramps) and sleeps better through the night >   tea is "okay" if he’s drinking enough – but it is > a mild diuretic.  WATER WATER WATER.  (sorry – trying to yell to his > part of the world).

Well, he was drinking tons of water most of his life and esp since over a year (but he has missed not having some tea, (you can take a UK’er out of UK, but not the reverse LOL), remember when I said that he was complaining about "kidney pain"? Well he never mentioned it to his doc so he’s still not had a full kidney panel run and when I mention it to him, he says "that would be up to the rheumy"..I say "no, get it done by your doc as a baseline". So anyways, outside in the sun, he was getting over-heated and feeling weak, even drinking lots of water, then up many times during the night to go to the bathroom.  So he thinks by drinking tea instead..starts with a strong bag in the morning and uses same bag all day, by nighttime, it’s warm water.  It’s true that warm water helps one go to sleep. (gee J, where am I heading with this?). Okay, well I see on the sleep disorders newsgroup, that once they’re stabilized on CPAP, they no longer have to get up multiple times to go ‘P", so what he’s attributing as a cure (tea) is coincidental and it’s the CPAP that’s fixed that and/or he’s in "remission" of Lupus symptoms. Dang it !  I feel like going out and throttling them both. When I mentioned getting his urine checked, I seemed to lose him when I explained not just the P-stick for infection, but full kidney panel.  Afraid to ask his doctor for most tests than the doctor suggests. Oh, some history, from childhood.  While the snow was blowing and freezing all our butts and we were all cozy in our bedrooms, HE had all his windows open.  Said he’s never been able to sleep in warm.  My suspicion is that he’s had "lupus low grade fevers" for most of his life, so he doesn’t understand that he’s been a "lupie" for most of his life. I know for a fact he’s had the Lupus rash since teens, I can still "see" him golfball-putting on the front lawn (with the rash, but we were kids and I thought it was sunburn). J

Response:

greetings

Question:

Hi to everyone in the group. I shall be visiting quite often in the future as I am due to be fitted up with a CPAP next month. I waited 12 months to be seen by the sleep clinic after referal by my GP. After using the home diagnosis package, it took another 10 weeks to get the results, yes I was suffering from sleep apnoea. Underfunding in the UK natnional health service has extended the waiting time to two years now.     I reckon I have had the condition for about 5 years. I first put it down to overwork and stress causing insomnia. Weight gain ensured the condition did not improve. Only after I was repeatedly pestered by my family about my daytime sleepiness, I decided to do a little research via the internet. I finally had to admit to myself I had a problem, and started the ball rolling by seeing my GP and being refered to the sleep clinic.

Response:

"John" <j…@johnhopkins.freeserve.co.uk> wrote: >Hi to everyone in the group.

Hello yourself!  :-) >I shall be visiting quite often in the future as I am due to be fitted up with >a CPAP next month.

That’s great, now is the time to start asking questions and picking out a mask. >    I reckon I have had the condition for about 5 years. I first put it down >to overwork and stress causing insomnia. Weight gain ensured the condition >did not improve. Only after I was repeatedly pestered by my family about my >daytime sleepiness, I decided to do a little research via the internet. I >finally had to admit to myself I had a problem, and started the ball rolling >by seeing my GP and being refered to the sleep clinic.

All too typical, most GPs don’t have enough training in sleep disorders to know the various symptoms. My doctor has become _far_ more knowledgable since I’ve been on the machine, I make it  point to bend his ear about it whenever I see him, hoping that it might help someone else. Tom

Response:

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:17:13 -0500, Tom Devlin <tomdev…@ameritech.net> wrote: >All too typical, most GPs don’t have enough training in sleep >disorders to know the various symptoms. My doctor has become _far_ >more knowledgable since I’ve been on the machine, I make it  point to >bend his ear about it whenever I see him, hoping that it might help >someone else.

So I’m waiting for my allergy shot.  I hear some quiet snoring.  I look over and there’s a somewhat overweight man with his head against the wall taking a snooze.  <smile>  He was right behind me in the line.  So I mention this to my GP.  Who is pretty good and I’m sure, although I never asked, that he will talk to this person. Tony

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Tony Johnson wrote: > On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:17:13 -0500, Tom Devlin > <tomdev…@ameritech.net> wrote: > >All too typical, most GPs don’t have enough training in sleep > >disorders to know the various symptoms. My doctor has become _far_ > >more knowledgable since I’ve been on the machine, I make it  point to > >bend his ear about it whenever I see him, hoping that it might help > >someone else. > So I’m waiting for my allergy shot.  I hear some quiet snoring.  I > look over and there’s a somewhat overweight man with his head against > the wall taking a snooze.  <smile>  He was right behind me in the > line.  So I mention this to my GP.  Who is pretty good and I’m sure, > although I never asked, that he will talk to this person.

Let’s play ‘Can you top this?" Last week I was sitting in a restaurant booth.  Two booths away a women in her mid to late 70s was sitting facing me.  She was eating, but after every bite she would nod off, each time a little longer.  After the 6th or 7th time, when she didn’t awaken in a reasonable amount of time, I motioned to the waitress, who went over and gently woke her to ask if she was OK. Then I thought to myself… she’s alone.  Unlikely that she would have walked to this particular restaurant.  So she must have driven.  How was she ever going to make it home? So I asked her.  Yes, she had driven.  I asked where she lived and if there was someone I could call to come and pick her up?  No, she said.  So I asked if she would like for me to drive her home.  She said no and then asked me what direction I was headed.  I told her in her direction. Maybe I could follow her home, she said.  I didn’t think it would help much, but I could at least call an ambulance, so I told her I would. She finished eating before I did and told me she was OK, and left.

Response:

NormC <no…@socal.rr.com> wrote: >Let’s play ‘Can you top this?"

Ok. I talked to a couple of guidance councilors at a local community college. I told both of them that one reason I was interested in classes was to see if my cognition was back after treatment for my sleep apnea. They both spent a lot of time quizzing me about the tests and the treatment, one of them even wrote down the name of my sleep doctor and sleep lab, and both were _very_ interested in what you had to do to get a referral for a test. I think they learned more than I did. <g> Tom

Response:

Sleeping Problem, new here!

Question:

but the results to the sleep test will not be accurate because I am on trazodone.  If I wasn’t on it I would be checking more of them. Wendy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -kcarter…@aol.com (KCarter952) wrote in message <news:20020313062032.13421.00000916@mb-fn.aol.com>… > Warren wrote: > >that is one of the symptoms of sleep apnea try the sleep disorders test here > >http://www.nationalsleep.com/sleeptest.htm > >hope this will help > Thank you for posting that site Warren. > My test results showed that I have the > symptoms of 4 different sleep disorders. > Sleep apnea, insomnia (which I know I > have for sure) narcolespy and RLS. I > know I used to have RLS for a year or > two but, it went away. I don’t have that > feeling that I just have to move my legs > anymore. I do have soreness and tension in them but, I think that is just > FMS/MPS. > CE-CE

Response:

Wendy: I have to take medication for sleeping or I will not sleep either.  I am not looking to get pregnant however.  I am 52 yrs. old.  Perhaps you should try to get off meds if you want to get pregnant.  Once you are pregnant, you will probably not have a problem sleeping.  Then after the baby is born, see how your sleep pattern goes.  That would be my unprofessional advice.  I would not want to have chemicals in my body if I were trying to get pregnant.   Nettie

Response:

Warren wrote: >that is one of the symptoms of sleep apnea try the sleep disorders test here >http://www.nationalsleep.com/sleeptest.htm >hope this will help

Thank you for posting that site Warren. My test results showed that I have the symptoms of 4 different sleep disorders. Sleep apnea, insomnia (which I know I have for sure) narcolespy and RLS. I know I used to have RLS for a year or two but, it went away. I don’t have that feeling that I just have to move my legs anymore. I do have soreness and tension in them but, I think that is just FMS/MPS. CE-CE

Response:

My insomnia went away when I went on CPAP must of been because the sleep quality improved. Warren "KCarter952" <kcarter…@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20020313062032.13421.00000916@mb-fn.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Warren wrote: > >that is one of the symptoms of sleep apnea try the sleep disorders test here > >http://www.nationalsleep.com/sleeptest.htm > >hope this will help > Thank you for posting that site Warren. > My test results showed that I have the > symptoms of 4 different sleep disorders. > Sleep apnea, insomnia (which I know I > have for sure) narcolespy and RLS. I > know I used to have RLS for a year or > two but, it went away. I don’t have that > feeling that I just have to move my legs > anymore. I do have soreness and tension in them but, I think that is just > FMS/MPS. > CE-CE

Response:

"Wendy J." <wendyj1…@msn.com> wrote in message

news:76730722.0203120943.27de1443@posting.google.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi, > My name is Wendy and I am 25 years old.  I was originally diagnosed > with depression, which I think was a mis-diagnosis.  I was put on > Zoloft, then Effexor, then Trazodone. > I have no symptoms of depression and have been on Trazodone for about > 4 years because I think I have a sleeping problem.  It is hard for me > to explain but I don’t have any problems falling asleep (I go to sleep > at around 10:30pm) but I just don’t go into a deep enough sleep.  I > feel like I am semiconscious.  But when I am on the Trazodone I am > fine.  I would be happy taking it for the rest of my life (50mg).  The > problem is that my husband and I would like to try for a baby.  I know > that you can’t take Trazodone when you are pregnant, so I need to get > off it.  Easier said that done. > I am only on 50mg, but if I go a night without it I sleep terrible and > wake up the next morning feeling hot, then cold, like I have a bad > case of the flu, headache (basically feeling horrible).

that is one of the symptoms of sleep apnea try the sleep disorders test here http://www.nationalsleep.com/sleeptest.htm hope this will help  I am scared – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> because I can’t stop it.  What shall I do?  Don’t tell me to ask my > doc, because he said I just need to stop it.  I must have a sleeping > problem, right? > I am at my wits end.  Spring break is coming up soon and I thought > about tryinng to stop it for a week (when I have no school) but I > don’t know if this will help.  I scared I won’t be able to sleep.  I > know this seems like a minor problem but I just can’t cope without > this medication.  I guess there isn’t really an answer…I just need > to stop it and suffer.  I was just wondering if anyone has any advice > or thoughts. > Thank you very much > Wendy

Response:

Hi, My name is Wendy and I am 25 years old.  I was originally diagnosed with depression, which I think was a mis-diagnosis.  I was put on Zoloft, then Effexor, then Trazodone. I have no symptoms of depression and have been on Trazodone for about 4 years because I think I have a sleeping problem.  It is hard for me to explain but I don’t have any problems falling asleep (I go to sleep at around 10:30pm) but I just don’t go into a deep enough sleep.  I feel like I am semiconscious.  But when I am on the Trazodone I am fine.  I would be happy taking it for the rest of my life (50mg).  The problem is that my husband and I would like to try for a baby.  I know that you can’t take Trazodone when you are pregnant, so I need to get off it.  Easier said that done. I am only on 50mg, but if I go a night without it I sleep terrible and wake up the next morning feeling hot, then cold, like I have a bad case of the flu, headache (basically feeling horrible).  I am scared because I can’t stop it.  What shall I do?  Don’t tell me to ask my doc, because he said I just need to stop it.  I must have a sleeping problem, right? I am at my wits end.  Spring break is coming up soon and I thought about tryinng to stop it for a week (when I have no school) but I don’t know if this will help.  I scared I won’t be able to sleep.  I know this seems like a minor problem but I just can’t cope without this medication.  I guess there isn’t really an answer…I just need to stop it and suffer.  I was just wondering if anyone has any advice or thoughts. Thank you very much Wendy

Response:

Before you drop Trazadone ‘cold turkey’, please research it and be __ABOLUTELY CERTAIN__ that doing so will not cause MAJOR withdrawal symptoms.  IMHO, even if appears to be OK, from my own experience(s) with prescription drugs, wean yourself off of it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Wendy J." wrote: > Hi, > My name is Wendy and I am 25 years old.  I was originally diagnosed > with depression, which I think was a mis-diagnosis.  I was put on > Zoloft, then Effexor, then Trazodone. > I have no symptoms of depression and have been on Trazodone for about > 4 years because I think I have a sleeping problem.  It is hard for me > to explain but I don’t have any problems falling asleep (I go to sleep > at around 10:30pm) but I just don’t go into a deep enough sleep.  I > feel like I am semiconscious.  But when I am on the Trazodone I am > fine.  I would be happy taking it for the rest of my life (50mg).  The > problem is that my husband and I would like to try for a baby.  I know > that you can’t take Trazodone when you are pregnant, so I need to get > off it.  Easier said that done. > I am only on 50mg, but if I go a night without it I sleep terrible and > wake up the next morning feeling hot, then cold, like I have a bad > case of the flu, headache (basically feeling horrible).  I am scared > because I can’t stop it.  What shall I do?  Don’t tell me to ask my > doc, because he said I just need to stop it.  I must have a sleeping > problem, right? > I am at my wits end.  Spring break is coming up soon and I thought > about tryinng to stop it for a week (when I have no school) but I > don’t know if this will help.  I scared I won’t be able to sleep.  I > know this seems like a minor problem but I just can’t cope without > this medication.  I guess there isn’t really an answer…I just need > to stop it and suffer.  I was just wondering if anyone has any advice > or thoughts. > Thank you very much > Wendy

Response:

Has anybody tried the NTI-TSS system?

Question:

Dean cc’ed me… so here goes: If so how effective (or ineffective) was it for you? What should one expect in terms of symptoms or changes during the first few weeks of use?

I would expect a *change* (depending on the design ditates postitive or negative) Reason for asking: I have tried it and so far it is not working. I have had constant headaches for the last 5 years. Organic issues (tumour, etc.) have been ruled out as have been sleep disorders. Went to the TSS web site and read the "Splitting the headache" book. About an 80% match on symptoms: Headaches are worst in the morning, ringing in the ears, pain is on the side of the head, occasional aching jaws, etc.

Sheesh, sure sounds like the right candidate to me. Found a dentist in my area that distributes them and had the appliance fitted. The first week was hell! The headaches got MUCH worse accompanied by jaw and neck pain. I went back to the dentist and he made some adjustments to the appliance.

Well, there’s your change… If your condition was NOT cause by nocturnal musclar parafunction, nothing would have changed. This improved things significantly in that the jaw and neck pain stopped. However the headache is still there and  I awaken with a stiff neck. The nature of the headache has changed. I cannot explain how it has changed but I can tell you that it is indeed different than it was previously.

Your dentist is missing something critical.  With regular ‘ol TMD patients, you can miss something, as still be successful.  With headache and migraine, you’ve got to pay very, very close attention. Here’s a list of common oversights: http://www.nti-tss.com/oversights.html If anything is missed, things might change, but they might not be better. Definitely NOT better though. I have been on the night appliance for almost 3 weeks now. I wear the day appliance for a few hours (about 3) each day. What this tells me is that my problem is definitely related to clenching.

Agreed. But the expected relief is not forthcoming.

I spent three years fine-tuning the protocol. Your relief is in there, somewhere… your dentist just hasn’t caught the oversight yet. Are my experiences typical? Is further adjustment  off the appliance required?

Your experience is not atypical, and yes, some alteration of the device is needed. Any experiences good or bad would be appreciated. You may reply to the group or privately.

I went for both. -El Jim

last

Question:

Dear Group, I can’t  shut up.   What’s wrong with me? Lonesome. Yours Truly, Dominick

Response:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2001 20:12:27 +0000, Dominick <d…@infi.net> wrote: >Dear Group, >I can’t  shut up.   >What’s wrong with me?

Bipolar disorder? "Pressure to keep talking" is one of the seven signs.

Response:

Dear Dominic: Do you know Jesus?  He can help you with all of your issues.  God loves you and gave His son for you.  If you want to know more, please write to me. God bless, Joe <>< "Dominick" <d…@infi.net> wrote in message

news:3C2E23AB.81462A6C@infi.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Dear Group, > I can’t  shut up. > What’s wrong with me? > Lonesome. > Yours Truly, > Dominick

Response:

Dominick wrote: > Dear Group, > I can’t  shut up. > What’s wrong with me? > Lonesome. > Yours Truly, > Dominick

Dominick, You need to be under a specialist’s care.  Mixing prescription drugs with herbal remedies and both of those with alcohol is not the answer. See a Neurologist who specializes in sleep disorders, and you may also want to see a good psychiatrist as well to help you with any depression / anxiety/ manic symptoms. If there was an easy fix for our problems with sleep then we wouldn’t need this group. — Magesteff The quickest way to end a war is to lose it. ~ George Orwell

Response:

Any uk people here?

Question:

Hi Steve Going to your GP is the best way to start, but be prepared for a longish wait, my NHS county (Gloucestershire) has a two year waiting list for sleep studies.  Go private if you can, its quicker! Good luck. Regards Pat Doz <st…@doswels.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message

news:9v3a1b$hig$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Just wondered if anyone in the UK visits this ng. I have had many years of > poor sleep and wondered whether GPs are the best place to start etc. > Any advice greatly appreciated. > Thanks > Steve Doz

Response:

"Doz" Wrote: > Just wondered if anyone in the UK visits this ng. I have had many years of > poor sleep and wondered whether GPs are the best place to start etc. > Any advice greatly appreciated. > Thanks > Steve Doz

Hi, Yes I am a fellow sufferer of ‘Sleep Apnea’ in the UK.  Your G.P. is not always the best place to start. my G.P. diagnosed me as a ‘Manic Depressive’ because every two or three months I went to him out of desperation wondering whether there was something he could do.  I was diagnosed through seeing and ‘Ear, Nose & Throat’ specialist, and was then referred to a ‘Sleep Specialist’.  This might be a channel to follow if your G.P. isn’t very helpful but is willing to give you a referral to an ‘Ear, Nose & Throat’ specialist. Good Luck. Martin

Response:

> Just wondered if anyone in the UK visits this ng. I have had many years of > poor sleep and wondered whether GPs are the best place to start etc. > Any advice greatly appreciated.

I’m in australia (not quite near the UK hehe) but in answer to your question, I think a GP is the best place to start simply by the fact that, here at least, you must get a referal from a GP to see a sleep specialist. But you DO need to see a sleep specialist….that’s the important part, dont’ listen to your GP saying, go to bed earlier, or take sleeping pills, just say you suspect you have a sleep disorder and you want a referal to a sleep specialist. Beth in oz

Response:

"Doz" <st…@doswels.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message

news:9v3a1b$hig$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk… > Just wondered if anyone in the UK visits this ng. I have had many years of > poor sleep and wondered whether GPs are the best place to start etc. > Any advice greatly appreciated. > Thanks > Steve Doz

There are a few of us who lurk and occasionally contribute. Yes you will have to start with your GP.   Unless they are young and trained in the last few years they are likely to know little about OSA and other sleep disorders.   In my case I presented to my GP with fluid build up in ankles and feet.   He ran a battery of tests, all with negative results, and referred me to a heart consultant.   He ran further tests, again all negative, and then questioned me about lifestyle.   It was only then that snoring and disturbed sleep appeared as relevant and he referred me on to the consultant chest physician (who had a sideline in sleep disorders). Eventually sleep study, diagnosis of OSA and prescription CPAP (on permanent loan from the hospital). Facilities for sleep studies vary considerably in different parts of UK. Also in some areas (even with a better sleep centre than my local hospital) you may have to buy your CPAP. See your GP.   Detail all the symptoms and get referred. Malcolm S Jenner

Response:

Just wondered if anyone in the UK visits this ng. I have had many years of poor sleep and wondered whether GPs are the best place to start etc. Any advice greatly appreciated. Thanks Steve Doz

Response:

Sleep problem

Question:

"javatiger" <tigerm…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:962e2a34.0306171135.719510af@posting.google.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi > I work weekly alternate shifts 6am-2pm then the following week > 2pm-10pm, so my sleep is usually staggered. > The worse times seem to be on Sunday nights when Iam due to start work > at 6am the following morning. Last Sunday 15th June I could not get to > sleep at all I stayed up all night studying, then went to work. > At work I felt so tired that I nearly fell a sleep in the toilets, I > couldnt wait to go home and to bed. Then for some reason at 11:30am I > felt wide awake after work I went cycling. I then went home got in bed > at 4:30pm and didnt wake up until 4am this morning. > Could someone explain my problem, do I have something wrong with my > sugar levels or something??? > Cheers > Mick

Boy Mick, I feel for you!  The only thing I can think of worse than my 12 hour Night shifts at the hospital would be Rotating Shifts! I have been doing Night Shifts( 12 hours 6:30 PM to 7:00 AM) for 13 years now.(8 hour nights are just as bad, hated those too, no recovery period, was never able to do anything)  We work three nights a week but not necessarily all in a row….sometimes it is four or five in a row with 1 or 2 off or maybe even 6 off after doing 5 or six nights….. It is all over the calendar!  How I cope is I DON’T switch back and forth from a dayshift to nightshift person. I try not to swing it too far.  This means I end up staying up on my days off till sometimes 2AM and sleeping till 10AM or 11AM.  People just don’t understand when you don’t want to do lunch!  I just tell I’ll do lunch if they want to stop by the hospital at AM! I agree with the explanation that you have seriously messed with your circadian rhythms and your sleep clock is way screwed up.  Doesn’t help when you can’t get to sleep!  Is there some bedtime you could cope with like say 10:30 PM to 5 or 6AM (I know you have to get ready for work)  and only switch this bedtime and hour either way (only go to bed at 9:30 (earliest) and get up at 7:00 (latest))?  So you are not swinging your bio clock all around all the time???  At least you can thank your lucky stars they didn’t throw nights in with the evening and day shifts to rotate around! Good Luck Brenda

Response:

> I work weekly alternate shifts 6am-2pm then the following week > 2pm-10pm, so my sleep is usually staggered. > The worse times seem to be on Sunday nights when Iam due to start work > at 6am the following morning. Last Sunday 15th June I could not get to > sleep at all I stayed up all night studying, then went to work. > At work I felt so tired that I nearly fell a sleep in the toilets, I > couldnt wait to go home and to bed. Then for some reason at 11:30am I > felt wide awake after work I went cycling. I then went home got in bed > at 4:30pm and didnt wake up until 4am this morning. > Could someone explain my problem, do I have something wrong with my > sugar levels or something???

it seems likely that the different work shifts are causing confussion to your body clock so that it doesn’t know when to sleep.  Most people find that they do best when they sleep the same time every night.  I’m guessing you can’t just change your work schedule so unfortuatnely I personally don’t have any suggestions.  You could try searching google with words like "shift work" and sleep.  see what suggestions you find that way and how other people handle the problem Good luck, and be sure to keep us updated. — Beth in Australia =================== FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://talhost.net/sleep this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles Remove my name to reply

Response:

I work for a company that employs many people on a rotating shift basis. While I’m lucky enough to work days only (home office weenie), most people in our plants (including four in Australia) work rotating shifts.  I can tell you that our biggest employee complaint is sleep problems caused by rotating shifts.  But no one seem to want to get stuck on nights or (worse) evenings.  So with the exception of one plant in New York State (whose people don’t rotate), the problem goes on and on. Paul R "Tal" <sleepbethdisord…@anchorweb.com.au> wrote in message

news:bcp6d5$lell3$1@ID-148111.news.dfncis.de… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > I work weekly alternate shifts 6am-2pm then the following week > > 2pm-10pm, so my sleep is usually staggered. > > The worse times seem to be on Sunday nights when Iam due to start work > > at 6am the following morning. Last Sunday 15th June I could not get to > > sleep at all I stayed up all night studying, then went to work. > > At work I felt so tired that I nearly fell a sleep in the toilets, I > > couldnt wait to go home and to bed. Then for some reason at 11:30am I > > felt wide awake after work I went cycling. I then went home got in bed > > at 4:30pm and didnt wake up until 4am this morning. > > Could someone explain my problem, do I have something wrong with my > > sugar levels or something??? > it seems likely that the different work shifts are causing confussion to > your body clock so that it doesn’t know when to sleep.  Most people find > that they do best when they sleep the same time every night.  I’m guessing > you can’t just change your work schedule so unfortuatnely I personally don’t > have any suggestions.  You could try searching google with words like "shift > work" and sleep.  see what suggestions you find that way and how other > people handle the problem > Good luck, and be sure to keep us updated. > — > Beth in Australia > =================== > FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here > http://talhost.net/sleep > this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles > Remove my name to reply

Response:

Hi I work weekly alternate shifts 6am-2pm then the following week 2pm-10pm, so my sleep is usually staggered. The worse times seem to be on Sunday nights when Iam due to start work at 6am the following morning. Last Sunday 15th June I could not get to sleep at all I stayed up all night studying, then went to work. At work I felt so tired that I nearly fell a sleep in the toilets, I couldnt wait to go home and to bed. Then for some reason at 11:30am I felt wide awake after work I went cycling. I then went home got in bed at 4:30pm and didnt wake up until 4am this morning. Could someone explain my problem, do I have something wrong with my sugar levels or something??? Cheers Mick

Response:

I am fed up with a current sleep problem that I seem to have and with no knowledge of sleep disorders I thought I would consult this newsgroup. I am constantly plagued by congestion problems.  At times I have, in fact, awaken from difficultly breathing.  I found that I usually slept better upstairs so I moved there from the basement; however, the problem certainly still exists.  It has been like this for a very long time.  I often have a sore throat, or cold-like symptoms, and I rarely feel like (upon awaking) that I have been thoroughly well-rested.  I feel fatigued at various times and do my best to overcome it but I must admit that it has been years, or at least very rare, since I felt wonderfully well-rested and comfortably alert through the day.  If this is a sleep disorder I possess, it would certainly explain a lot of things. I do sleep and I do fall asleep reasonably well enough.  I used to have trouble falling asleep but was able to get over that for the most part.  I do wake-up each morning with the distinct feeling that I have slept uncomfortably and–of course–I feel very uncomfortable when I wake-up because of my throat/nasal discomfort and muscles that do not feel relaxed and at ease.  Some mornings are worse than others. Fed up–before going to bed I asked myself to reveal what the problem was to me at some time.  It later dawned on me that I may not be breathing properly when I sleep.  I also now catch myself, out of habit perhaps, tensing certain muscles/limbs or doing uncomfortable things that I think I am maintaining while I sleep.  For example, having the muscles of my fingers tensed up–occaisonally I realize I am doing this and think to myself "why the heck am I doing this" and I then relax the muscles–but inevitably this creeps back (with various parts of me).  Whether this means anything or not, I also seem to keep my mouth closed and depend on breathing through my nose–but I cannot say for certain whether I do this when I sleep or not– but it is something that I suspect. Any thoughts or advice? Thank-you, Steven Stewart

Response:

stev…@nbnet.nb.ca (S. Stewart) wrote: >I am constantly plagued by congestion problems.  At times I have, in fact, >awaken from difficultly breathing.  I found that I usually slept better >upstairs so I moved there from the basement; however, the problem certainly >still exists.

Might you have allergies?  Mold spores, for example, would be worse in the basement. There are several folks here using special pillows and bed clothes to prevent dust and the like, they’d know more about the symptoms. > It has been like this for a very long time.  I often have a >sore throat, or cold-like symptoms, and I rarely feel like (upon awaking) >that I have been thoroughly well-rested.  I feel fatigued at various times >and do my best to overcome it but I must admit that it has been years, or at >least very rare, since I felt wonderfully well-rested and comfortably alert >through the day.  If this is a sleep disorder I possess, it would certainly >explain a lot of things.

A sleep disorder is certainly a possibility but I don’t recall the stuffiness and sore throat as symptoms for anything in particular. Maybe someone else will have an idea. Tom

Response:

Over training

Question:

Oh dude… So you’re saying you are worried that your 4.4 on Monday was too much, and you’ve been sore the last couple days? Oh yeh… Your 2 mile run should be fine… If you’re worried, take a day off, but I think you’ll be fine… I thought this was something you had been struggling with for awhile, that you were exhibiting signs of burnout… Shoot man, we all get sore sometimes!  ;-)  Give it a few days… But I imagine you’ll be fine. -Chazzer

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well this Monday I run a 4.4 Mile the   l o n g e s t  I have ever run… I had run a 3 mile approx three weeks ago. I run approx 11 minutes a mile. So you think I’ts ok to run my slow 2 miles? How long have you been suffering with this?… And what were you doing to overtrain?  And how long have you been cut back to just the 20 minute runs?… My experience in the past is that two weeks of EASY (and I mean every run is easy… Leave the watch at home) cures just about everything… And sometimes maybe a week is all you’ll need… Just depends on the person. Thanks for replying Chazzer Right now I’m only running slow 20 minutes but I feel EVERY jog in my thighs above my knees. Is it best to stop or should I carry on with these slow runs and hopefully things will clear up? I think the signs are different from person to person… For me, I think the signs are an overall run down feeling… I will start feeling sluggish and tired on easy runs, and I might have a strings of  really poor speed workouts.

Response:

                                                       Thursday morning Thanks for your encouragement Chazzer I’m going to give it a break until Sunday (a three day break) I’m a 52yr old and my knee joint, above and below, is so sore that it won’t take another jump step. I’ll limit my running to walking. Very frustrating but it just isn’t working. So "no running for me this lunch break" I’ll take a 10 minute walk. Hopefully I’ll be better by Sunday. Jack

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh dude… So you’re saying you are worried that your 4.4 on Monday was too much, and you’ve been sore the last couple days? Oh yeh… Your 2 mile run should be fine… If you’re worried, take a day off, but I think you’ll be fine… I thought this was something you had been struggling with for awhile, that you were exhibiting signs of burnout… Shoot man, we all get sore sometimes!  ;-)  Give it a few days… But I imagine you’ll be fine. -Chazzer Well this Monday I run a 4.4 Mile the   l o n g e s t  I have ever run… I had run a 3 mile approx three weeks ago. I run approx 11 minutes a mile. So you think I’ts ok to run my slow 2 miles? How long have you been suffering with this?… And what were you doing to overtrain?  And how long have you been cut back to just the 20 minute runs?… My experience in the past is that two weeks of EASY (and I mean every run is easy… Leave the watch at home) cures just about everything… And sometimes maybe a week is all you’ll need… Just depends on the person. Thanks for replying Chazzer Right now I’m only running slow 20 minutes but I feel EVERY jog in my thighs above my knees. Is it best to stop or should I carry on with these slow runs and hopefully things will clear up? I think the signs are different from person to person… For me, I think the signs are an overall run down feeling… I will start feeling sluggish and tired on easy runs, and I might have a strings of  really poor speed workouts.

Response:

How long have you been suffering with this?… And what were you doing to overtrain?  And how long have you been cut back to just the 20 minute runs?… My experience in the past is that two weeks of EASY (and I mean every run is easy… Leave the watch at home) cures just about everything… And sometimes maybe a week is all you’ll need… Just depends on the person.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for replying Chazzer Right now I’m only running slow 20 minutes but I feel EVERY jog in my thighs above my knees. Is it best to stop or should I carry on with these slow runs and hopefully things will clear up? I think the signs are different from person to person… For me, I think the signs are an overall run down feeling… I will start feeling sluggish and tired on easy runs, and I might have a strings of  really poor speed workouts.

Response:

Well this Monday I run a 4.4 Mile the   l o n g e s t  I have ever run… I had run a 3 mile approx three weeks ago. I run approx 11 minutes a mile. So you think I’ts ok to run my slow 2 miles?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How long have you been suffering with this?… And what were you doing to overtrain?  And how long have you been cut back to just the 20 minute runs?… My experience in the past is that two weeks of EASY (and I mean every run is easy… Leave the watch at home) cures just about everything… And sometimes maybe a week is all you’ll need… Just depends on the person. Thanks for replying Chazzer Right now I’m only running slow 20 minutes but I feel EVERY jog in my thighs above my knees. Is it best to stop or should I carry on with these slow runs and hopefully things will clear up? I think the signs are different from person to person… For me, I think the signs are an overall run down feeling… I will start feeling sluggish and tired on easy runs, and I might have a strings of  really poor speed workouts.

Response:

Hi What would you say are signs of "over training"? How would I notice it?

Jack, As a Triathlete, I dance this line all too often. Here are some standard symptoms and some that are not always covered: Irritability (always first for me) "Tired Heart" – Heart Rate climbs with increased exertion, then collapses  (second for me) . . . and in no particular order . . . Chronic fatigue Chronic muscle pain Depression Sleep disorders (Insomnia, Bad Dreams . .  . ) Immune deficiency

Response:

Hi What would you say are signs of "over training"? How would I notice it? found this on a website , hope its of use neil mcteggart

—-snip of nice piece of work—– neil, Could you give the reference to where you found the article.  I’ve put it in my archive. Thanks.    Always want to give credit to the source. — In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer – rec.running FAQ http://www.faqs.org/faqs/by-newsgroup/rec/rec.running.html Director, San Diego Marathon Clinic, est. 1975 Mindful Running http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.asp

Response:

i agree with previous posts, ie insomnia, elevated heart rate (most effective to check before getting out of bed), chrnoically tired legs, strings of bad races, tempo runs, and speed workouts. Andy

Response:

sorry , i forgot to reference the info that i found.  when i find the link ill post it up neil mcteggart

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi What would you say are signs of "over training"? How would I notice it? found this on a website , hope its of use neil mcteggart —-snip of nice piece of work—– neil, Could you give the reference to where you found the article.  I’ve put it in my archive. Thanks.    Always want to give credit to the source. — In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer – rec.running FAQ http://www.faqs.org/faqs/by-newsgroup/rec/rec.running.html Director, San Diego Marathon Clinic, est. 1975 Mindful Running http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.asp

Response:

found this on a website , hope its of use As with almost everything else health related, prevention is the key. Well-balanced gradual increases in training are recommended. A training schedule design called periodisation varies the training load in cycles with built in mandatory rest phases. During the high workload phase, the athlete alternates between high intensity interval work and low intensity endurance work . This approach is used by a number of elite athletes in many sports.

Does this mean that a long slow run should follow a near-race-pace run? I have trouble with what order runs should be… (near-race-pace  LSD rest) or (near-race-pace rest LSD). Thanks,         Roger – A new owner of ‘Stability’ shoes –

Response:

Hi What would you say are signs of "over training"? How would I notice it? Jack, As a Triathlete, I dance this line all too often.

I can believe that. (Folks, this is a guy who once used Ironman Canada to qualify for Ironman Hawaii, which was only five weeks later.) Here are some standard symptoms and some that are not always covered: Irritability (always first for me) "Tired Heart" – Heart Rate climbs with increased exertion, then collapses  (second for me) . . . and in no particular order . . . Chronic fatigue Chronic muscle pain Depression Sleep disorders (Insomnia, Bad Dreams . .  . ) Immune deficiency

In addition to Joe’s list of symptoms, I usually find myself going to the bathroom more at night – like 4-5 times. BTW, Joe –  congrats on IM California. I assume 2nd in AG punches your ticket for Kona?  <G Mike Tennent "IronPenguin" Ironman Canada ‘98 Great Floridian ‘99, ‘00

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JBTW, Joe –  congrats on IM California. I assume 2nd in AG punches your ticket for Kona?  <G

Thanks, Mike. Yes, the whole family is headed back out for the race. We are still waiting for you to put in an appearance! Joe Foster

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when i think about my tax refund http://community.webtv.net/ultrajohn1/

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Thanks for replying Chazzer Right now I’m only running slow 20 minutes but I feel EVERY jog in my thighs above my knees. Is it best to stop or should I carry on with these slow runs and hopefully things will clear up?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think the signs are different from person to person… For me, I think the signs are an overall run down feeling… I will start feeling sluggish and tired on easy runs, and I might have a strings of  really poor speed workouts.

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I think the signs are different from person to person… For me, I think the signs are an overall run down feeling… I will start feeling sluggish and tired on easy runs, and I might have a strings of  really poor speed workouts. I took a two week break from hard training back in April after I started developing many, many aches and pains and just seemed to have lost the zing in my step… I think that turned out to be just what I needed… -Chazzer

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi What would you say are signs of "over training"? How would I notice it? Thanks

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This is what happens to me (not all at once, but I’ve experienced all these symptoms): Elevated heart rate, enlarged/swollen glands in neck, sore throat, runny nose (viral-like symptoms), constantly tired yet sometimes unable to sleep, lack of hunger, dead legs, slower cadence when running, lack of interest in running. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html – – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi What would you say are signs of "over training"? How would I notice it? Thanks

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Hi What would you say are signs of "over training"? How would I notice it? Thanks

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found this on a website , hope its of use There have been several clinical studies done on athletes with the overtraining syndrome. Exercise physiologic, psychological, and biochemical laboratory testing have been done. Findings in these studies have shown decreased performance in exercise testing, decreased mood state, and, in some, increased cortisol levels — the body’s "stress" hormone. A decrease in testosterone, altered immune status, and an increase in muscular break down products have also been identified. Medically, the overtraining syndrome is classified as a neuro-endocrine disorder. The normal fine balance in the interaction between the autonomic nervous system and the hormonal system is disturbed and athletic "jet lag" results. The body now has a decreased ability to repair itself during rest. Heaping more workouts onto this unbalanced system only worsens the situation. Additional stress in the form of difficulties at work or personal life also contributes. It appears that there are two forms of the syndrome. The sympathetic form is more common in sprint type sports and the parasympathetic form is more common in endurance sports. The results from various measurements taken during exercise physiologic testing differ between the two forms, but decreased overall performance and increased perceived fatigue are similar. In the parasympathetic form there may be a lower heart rate for a given workload. Athletes training with a heart rate monitor may notice that they cannot sustain the workout at their usual "set point." Fatigue takes over and prematurely terminates the workout. Regulation of glucose can become altered and the athlete may experience symptoms of hypoglycemia during exercise. I won’t comment on all of the differences between the two forms, but one example is resting heart rate. In the sympathetic form, the resting heart rate is elevated. In the parasympathetic form, however, the resting heart rate is decreased. If this sounds confusing, then you are not alone. There is very little agreement in the literature about abnormal laboratory findings. Additionally, it is possible to have the overtraining syndrome, but have completely normal physical findings and biochemical tests. At this point, there is no single test that will confirm the presence of overtraining. The overtraining syndrome should be considered in any athlete who manifests symptoms of prolonged fatigue and performance that has leveled off or decreased. It is important to exclude any underlying illness that may be responsible for the fatigue. The treatment for the overtraining syndrome is rest. The longer the overtraining has occurred, the more rest required. Therefore, early detection is very important. If the overtraining has only occurred for a short period of time (e.g., 3 – 4 weeks) then interrupting training for 3 – 5 days is usually sufficient rest. After this, workouts can be resumed on an alternate day basis. The intensity of the training can be maintained but the total volume must be lower. It is important that the factors that lead to overtraining be identified and corrected. Otherwise, the overtraining syndrome is likely to recur. The alternate day recovery period is continued for a few weeks and then an increase in volume is permitted. In more severe cases, the training program may have to be interrupted for weeks, and it may take months to recover. An alternate form of exercise can be substituted to help prevent the exercise withdrawal syndrome. All of the medical studies and advice on overtraining have involved single sport athletes. For triathletes and other multi-sport athletes the recovery process may be different depending on the circumstances. If it can be identified that the overtraining has occurred in only one discipline, then resting that discipline along with significant decreases in the other sports can bring about full recovery. It is vitally important not to suddenly substitute more workouts in one sport in an attempt to compensate for rest in another. The athlete that does this will not heal the overtraining, but will drive him or herself deeper into a hole. Overtraining affects both peripheral and central mechanisms in the body. Resting from overtraining on the bicycle by swimming more will help a pair of fatigued quadriceps, but to the heart, pituitary, and adrenals, stress is stress. As with almost everything else health related, prevention is the key. Well-balanced gradual increases in training are recommended. A training schedule design called periodisation varies the training load in cycles with built in mandatory rest phases. During the high workload phase, the athlete alternates between high intensity interval work and low intensity endurance work . This approach is used by a number of elite athletes in many sports. A training log is the best method to monitor progress. In addition to keeping track of distance and intensity, the athlete can record the resting morning heart rate, weight, general health, how the workout felt, and levels of muscular soreness and fatigue. The latter two can be scored on a 10 point scale. Significant, progressive changes in any of these parameters may signal overtraining. Avoiding monotonous training and maintaining adequate nutrition are other recommendations for prevention. Vigorous exercise during the incubation period of a viral illness may increase the duration and severity of that illness. Athletes who feel as if they are developing a cold should rest or reduce the training schedule for a few days. In conclusion, the prevailing wisdom is that it is better to be undertrained than overtrained. Rest is a vital part of any athlete’s training. There is considerable evidence that reduced training (same intensity, lower volume) for up to 21 days will not decrease performance. A well-planned training program involves as much art as science and should allow for flexibility. Early warning signs of overtraining should be heeded and schedule adjustments made accordingly. Smart training is the path to faster times and good health. neil mcteggart

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Can depression manifest itself in purely physical symptoms?

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Loss of appetite, extreme exhaustion, dizziness, nausea, sleeplessness……. mentally I feel pretty good, but if I have to suffer these symptoms I would rather be dead.

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Ive read about cases like that, where people have lots of physical signs and symptoms like sleeping, eating and sex drive problems but mentally they arent that bad. But I dont think its too awful common. Usually in depression there is sleeping, eating and sex drive problems PLUS of course the mood related problems. Only a MD could answer your question to be specific Robert. But depression definitely shows up in physical ways, in my opinion the more severe the depression the more the physical problems you have (sleeping, eating, sex, energy). Eric

i found the physical symptoms of depression fascinating; from personal experience, i had heaviness of body – like i weighed 600 lbs; also i had something like personal disintegration after crying non-stop for a week – i don’t believe in Freud, but this really felt like regression to childhood; Kraeplin has some neat physical signs like – salt on the skin, papery dehydration of the skin, vein engorgement – some really strange stuff, pointing to a sure sign that manic depression at least is metabolic; Squiggles

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Depression involves physiological, emotional and cognitive symptoms.  The criteria worked out by The American Psychiatric Association in The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 3rd edition (DSM-III) include: *Change of appetite and weight; *Sleep disorders; *Inner strain or belated motory reactions; *Lack of energy, fatigue; *Nervousness; *Concentration and memory disorders; *Lack of pleasure and interest in almost any kind of activity; *Tendencies of guilt; *Thought or attempt of suicide. The presence of 5 of these symptoms shows major depression.  Both the physician and the patient are mostly concerned with physical diseases and tend to ignore depression. —- You could also check up on "masked depression" — this is a more complicated thing, where depression is masked by other behaviour, etc…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Loss of appetite, extreme exhaustion, dizziness, nausea, sleeplessness……. mentally I feel pretty good, but if I have to suffer these symptoms I would rather be dead.

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7 … do I get a prize? My simple answer to a serious question is that in my depression I often notice a marked increase in physical manifestations, especially pain (migraine, increase in fibromyalgic pain, transient muscle spasms). Often this is a prodrome to a change in the actual mood, however, over the years I have become acutely aware that I don’t have to be thinking about killing myself (a very rare symptom) to be deeply depressed.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Depression involves physiological, emotional and cognitive symptoms.  The criteria worked out by The American Psychiatric Association in The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 3rd edition (DSM-III) include: *Change of appetite and weight; *Sleep disorders; *Inner strain or belated motory reactions; *Lack of energy, fatigue; *Nervousness; *Concentration and memory disorders; *Lack of pleasure and interest in almost any kind of activity; *Tendencies of guilt; *Thought or attempt of suicide. The presence of 5 of these symptoms shows major depression.  Both the physician and the patient are mostly concerned with physical diseases and tend to ignore depression.

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