Cheaters' chances of staying married
Question:
But, was she Ms. Wrong when you married her? If not…if you didn’t realize it until later…then how do you know that the current Ms. Right won’t turn into Ms. Wrong down the line? Just curious. Karin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Interesting observation, but as is the case with many people in thie NG, a very narrow viewpoint. Just like asking people if they would eat rats and bugs to "survive: (I did not watch the show, although I did hear about the rodentmania) – most would say "no I would rather die" but in fact, when the chips are down you would probably rather NOT die. So here we have the ihabitants of ASD, the majority of which are self-righteous, judgemental, oversensitive, counseled, self-helped, 12-stepped, empowered (women only), whipped (men only), and (if you ask them) all-knowing experts in the field of human relations. If a person is unhappy, they assume that there are roads unexplored, if they cheat, they are the bad guy. In fact, it is perfectly natural to wonder whether there is anything better in life than living with a mate who ignores your desire of romance and intimacy, belittles your desire for touch and sex, may be physicially or verbally abusive, and might use alcohol or illegal substances. And you have children, and debts, and obligations, and if the grass is really not greener, well why upset the apple cart, right? So you look around, you talk to people, you maybe even meet, and the most amazing thing happens – there are actually people who you enjoy things with. I think most prudent people would find a place to live before they move, find a new car to replace the old, and if they are undecided, well they may take a test drive. If the old house or the old car suited them, I would not think that they would be "shopping" – I for one certainly would not have been, and in my new life I do not. Am I happy – YOU BET – would I do it again - ABSOLUTELY. In my opinion the "till death do you part" is just good legal advice, since divorce is sostressful and messy – of course it is best if YOU are not the dead one. And to those who say "money can’t buy happiness", I would say that the exception is getting divorced from Ms Wrong. The thing I always find in these situations is neither party had any respect for the current marriage, the current commitment, or the current marriage vows. Also, it is obvious they condone adultery under certain circumstances. So what makes them think that these same people will behave better in their next marriage? Personally, I don’t think adultery is a characteristic of a good prospective mate. If you think about it logically it’s a really dumb move. How many people if offered would chose going out on a blind date with a married person? Can’t you see a "friend" coming to you (generalized you, not you personally) and saying, "I know this person who would like to get to know you. They are a lot of fun and a great wo/man. S/he’s married and has two children, but might consider leaving their family if the right person came along. How many people in their right mind would actually go out on this "date"?
– "Circumstances do not make a person, they reveal him or her." –Richard Carlson
Response:
Janie, I think you really have an excellent point. People NEED to feel they are loved, wanted and needed. It’s not something that is just nice to have, but it’s a need within everyone (at least that I have ever met). Maybe it all boils down to a need to feel like we matter to someone.
Amen
Response:
A while ago someone asked if anyone knew what the chances of a marriage lasting that started out with the someone cheating on their spouse, divorcing, and then marrying the other wo/man. Today on Oprah a man said those marriages only had a ***5%*** chance to make it! Sure doesn’t seem worth throwing away a family for and hurting so many people. Of course, I’m sure that most people figure THEY will be the ones to make it.
Well they should talk about taking a relationship for granted. That happens in a lot of these situ’s because the spouse is thinking…they damn well better not go out and have an affair, or, I don’t have time for sex like he/she does, I have too many more important issues to deal with right now, anyway they are just sex maniacs, and it’s just disgusting the way they carry on. Or it could be you’re driving them away by making them feel their accomplishments are just a waste of time, or you see them in a critical light, and they’d rather masturbate than to have sex with someone they think feels that way about them. Bendere Dundat. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Before you buy.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So let’s check the scoreboard: I scored direct hits with "self-righteous, judgemental, oversensitive, (and) counseled", but probably should have also included "overanalyzed, politically correct, and totally lacking in a sense of humor" in describing ASD inhabitants. Splitting sentences and paragraphs and launching into expositions between the paragraphs posing questions and answering the same in a manner meant to be unfavorable to another with a differening viewpoint is an oddly familiar pattern which I recognize from my distant past. Luckily I am "divorced’ from that now.
What about YOUR scoreboard? I am sure you said to yoru spouse Gee honey I am unhappy, I am going to cheat on you. Here are the characteristics of a cheater 1. Liar 2. Devoid of character 3. Homewrecker 4. Coward 5. Untrustworthy 6. Narcissistic I think I would rather be called any of your nemes like self righteous and judgemental than what you actually are. Loev, Grandma Poopie Pants
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The thing I always find in these situations is neither party had any respect for the current marriage, the current commitment, or the current marriage vows. Also, it is obvious they condone adultery under certain circumstances. So what makes them think that these same people will behave better in their next marriage? Personally, I don’t think adultery is a characteristic of a good prospective mate. If you think about it logically it’s a really dumb move. How many people if offered would chose going out on a blind date with a married person? Can’t you see a "friend" coming to you (generalized you, not you personally) and saying, "I know this person who would like to get to know you. They are a lot of fun and a great wo/man. S/he’s married and has two children, but might consider leaving their family if the right person came along. How many people in their right mind would actually go out on this "date"?
Victoria, You would be surprised on how many women would date a marreid man. Just 6 months ago or so I was on a bbs where this woman who had just gotten out of a bad relationship, was planning to go out with a married man she met through the personals. She said that married men can be nice. You know how blunt I can be and I just said this, " HA HA HA HA HA a married man sniffing through the personals looking for some new tail is a nice Mr. Right!! I said you have got to be kidding!" Anyway several others jumped ON ME and said chheating was a personal choice and I should mind my own business! Unbelievable! I went on to say things about cheaters having lack of character and are liars who can’t be trusted, etc… So these women thought there was nothing wrong in being a homewrecker. Then I got banned from the bbs. Oh Well! :-) So yes there are plenty of people who think nothing of dating a married person. Loev, Grandma Poopie Pants
Response:
- Today on Oprah a man | said those marriages only had a ***5%*** chance to make it! WOW! That’s amazing. Although I’m not terribly surprised, I didn’t realize the percentage was so low. Makes me feel somewhat better that I’m waiting to even date for a while….. meanwhile stbx is living with the woman he left me for. Sure | doesn’t seem worth throwing away a family for and hurting so many | people. Of course, I’m sure that most people figure THEY will be the | ones to make it. Yep. Self-deception is a powerful thing. ~*~*~ Vicki ~*~*~ Caitlin Grace is going to be induced on FRIDAY!!
Response:
I was young and she was Ms "I guess she is OK and we get along well and why not?", but after a while it was Ms "Why do you think I should be intimate, you know I was not like that when we got married", and so it went, the past never being absent from our present, overshadowing the future, and every "mistake" I made – never forgotten (although I suspect that some events did not happen but who can remeber stuff from 15 years ago anyway). In time I realized I wanted something more, and I do not think that changing one person into another is possible. Also, celibacy did not appeal to me, nor did years and dollars of "therapy". I wish her well and hope that someday she finds some guy who is happy with her the way she is, and she is happy with him the way he is. And that should be that. The hurt comes when we are together, not apart. Keeping a "marriage together" for the sake of a 50th anniversary in spite of it not meeting either party’s needs is senseless. Arguing about the past is silly. Living your life and enjoying is what should be done. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But, was she Ms. Wrong when you married her? If not…if you didn’t realize it until later…then how do you know that the current Ms. Right won’t turn into Ms. Wrong down the line? Just curious. Karin
Response:
Is it that simple? Is that what makes people say, "I love you but am no longer in love with you,"?
That was probably the worst thing my stbx said to me. She said it about 5 months ago, but it still feels like a slap in the face. Because I have been thinking about it, she didn’t give up on her job, her friends, her family, her(our) kids, but she gave up on me. And if I am taking it personally well, I guess I am. And I have a right to.
Response:
A while ago someone asked if anyone knew what the chances of a marriage lasting that started out with the someone cheating on their spouse, divorcing, and then marrying the other wo/man. Today on Oprah a man said those marriages only had a ***5%*** chance to make it!
I didn’t see the original thread, but Frank Pittman estimated the number at 3%, based on the clients from his practice. The problem with Pittman’s number is that its not derived from a random sample, but OTOH its also from clients who had entered marital therapy to try and save their marriages. So I find a 5% figure entirely believeable. Btw, Pittman’s book is _Private Lies_ and it has a very good chapter discussing reasons why such affair-come-marriages usually fail. Drew
Response:
I would like to point out though that sometimes one spouse can feel like they do appreciate the other…but the other doesn’t "recognize" it because of their own self-esteem issues. I know in my own marriage that this dynamic came into play. My stbx even said to me that he couldn’t understand what I saw in him, so how could he believe that I really appreciated him? That’s not to say that I didn’t make mistakes, though. One of the reasons that my stbx says he fell out of love with me is because he felt I found him "lacking". Hmm…he ended up cheating on me and leaving the marriage by the back door….would society call that "lacking"? LOL In retrospect, I probably did take him for granted and didn’t appreciate him as much as he needed. But that was the rub….how much did he need to feel appreciated? And could I really "give" that to him? Karin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Janie, I think you really have an excellent point. People NEED to feel they are loved, wanted and needed. It’s not something that is just nice to have, but it’s a need within everyone (at least that I have ever met). Maybe it all boils down to a need to feel like we matter to someone. I heard on another show yesterday, that a survey taken of men and women who had left marriages, found the single most popular "reason" given was that they no longer felt "appreciated." (And Dale Carnegie reminds readers that next to food, sleep, sex, feeling "important" is the highest priority humans have. Freud called it "feeling greatness." Can’t remember who substituted "important" for "greatness", but the concept is the same. Its a human drive that can’t be denied. Its what drives the majority of what they do. Is it that simple? Is that what makes people say, "I love you but am no longer in love with you,"? Is that what makes people look for "appreciation" somewhere else? Something worth pondering as I prepare to enter into the world of intimacy again, for sure. Janie Before you buy.
– "Circumstances do not make a person, they reveal him or her." –Richard Carlson
Response:
So let’s check the scoreboard: I scored direct hits with "self-righteous, judgemental, oversensitive, (and) counseled", but probably should have also included "overanalyzed, politically correct, and totally lacking in a sense of humor" in describing ASD inhabitants. Splitting sentences and paragraphs and launching into expositions between the paragraphs posing questions and answering the same in a manner meant to be unfavorable to another with a differening viewpoint is an oddly familiar pattern which I recognize from my distant past. Luckily I am "divorced’ from that now. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Interesting observation, but as is the case with many people in thie NG, a very narrow viewpoint. Actually not. If someone has created a pattern in his or her life it is very reasonable to believe that that pattern will continue unless they consciously make an effort to change it. Just like asking people if they would eat rats and bugs to "survive: (I did not watch the show, although I did hear about the rodentmania) – most would say "no I would rather die" but in fact, when the chips are down you would probably rather NOT die. I don’t think comparing day-to-day life with survivor tactics is reasonable. Two completely different situations. So here we have the ihabitants of ASD, the majority of which are self-righteous, judgemental, oversensitive, counseled, self-helped, 12-stepped, empowered (women only), whipped (men only), and (if you ask them) all-knowing experts in the field of human relations. Do you really see yourself that way? I guess your self respect has suffered a lot do to your past adultery. Most people are much better than that. It’s a real shame you view yourself so low. If a person is unhappy, they assume that there are roads unexplored, if they cheat, they are the bad guy. Do you know why they are the bad guys? Do you think it is merely because they have caused pain to those around them; those people they promised to protect and love? Or have damaged their children’s lives and put them at greater risk for serious problems? It’s not. Actually one reason is much more fundamental than that. I have seldom read/heard anyone (even those who cheated) say it was a good thing to do, the right thing to do, and/or the moral thing to do. What is usually said is something like, "I know it was wrong, but I was so unhappy (add your own word)
