HELP! I had bad Risperdal/Remeron reaction
Question:
I was hit by severe depression and my psychiatrist put me on 15 mg Remeron and 1/2 mg of Risperdal a day. The Risperdal did nothing for me at all, in fact it began soon to mask over the anti depressant effects of the Remeron. Remeron made me feel normal again. Greatly improved sleep, sex drive, appetite, mood, confidence , etc. I was put on the Risperdal because my psychiatrist mistakenly perceived me to be potentially aggressive or hostile. When I tried to increase my Remeron from 15 mg to 30 mg, something really bad occured. I experienced "spasms" or sharp, bursting rupture type pains on both sides of my top, rear head. Just under the scalp, where the serotonnin reuptake process occurs. After these spasms occured, the Remeron basically quit working. Also, after these spasms occured, these injured areas beneath my scalp would feel mushy or soggy as if their was some inflammation or effusion or mild swelling going on there. Very weird, uncomfortable feeling. My psychiatrist blamed it all on the Remeron, became upset about it. I think the Risperdal had as much to do with it if not more than the Remeron. The Risperdal tries to slow down dopamine/serotonnin while the Remeron tries to increase serotonnin/norephineprine. I believe when I tried to increase the REmeron, the two drugs conflicted and something popped. Some kind of soft tissue was injured. Since these spasms occured, no antidepressants work for me at all. I do feel the AD effect somewhat(a little) if I take Non steroidal anti inflammatorry drugs(Daypro) daily.This seems to decrease the uncomfortable swelling or soggy feelings right underneath my scalp. I am desperate and have since switched psychiatrists and have long been off Risperdal. My present doctor has mentioned ECT…I am scared. My family doctor suggested I injured some small scalpal muscles…he says its no "big deal." Does anybody out there have any idea what happened? Why the ADs quit working after these spasms occured? What can I do to fix it?(if anything) I realize some people may read this and not believe it but its the honest truth. My situation is not in the books anywhere I believe. Has anybody else out there heard of a similar situation? I know the Risperdal had a lot to do with it…have no doubt in my mind. Please post a message here or Email me directly at ERidd5…@aol.com if you have any ideas or suggestions. I dont need "cheer up" messages, I need real help. disgusted, frustrated and scared in NC Eric Riddick
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -nospam@ncnospam wrote: > I was hit by severe depression and my psychiatrist put me on 15 mg Remeron > and 1/2 mg of Risperdal a day. The Risperdal did nothing for me at all, in > fact it began soon to mask over the anti depressant effects of the Remeron. > Remeron made me feel normal again. Greatly improved sleep, sex drive, > appetite, mood, confidence , etc. I was put on the Risperdal because my > psychiatrist mistakenly perceived me to be potentially aggressive or hostile. > When I tried to increase my Remeron from 15 mg to 30 mg, something really bad > occured. I experienced "spasms" or sharp, bursting rupture type pains on both > sides of my top, rear head. Just under the scalp, where the serotonnin > reuptake process occurs. After these spasms occured, the Remeron basically > quit working. Also, after these spasms occured, these injured areas beneath > my scalp would feel mushy or soggy as if their was some inflammation or > effusion or mild swelling going on there. Very weird, uncomfortable feeling. > My psychiatrist blamed it all on the Remeron, became upset about it. I think > the Risperdal had as much to do with it if not more than the Remeron. The > Risperdal tries to slow down dopamine/serotonnin while the Remeron tries to > increase serotonnin/norephineprine. I believe when I tried to increase the > REmeron, the two drugs conflicted and something popped. Some kind of soft > tissue was injured. Since these spasms occured, no antidepressants work for > me at all. I do feel the AD effect somewhat(a little) if I take Non steroidal > anti inflammatorry drugs(Daypro) daily.This seems to decrease the > uncomfortable swelling or soggy feelings right underneath my scalp. I am > desperate and have since switched psychiatrists and have long been off > Risperdal. My present doctor has mentioned ECT…I am scared. My family > doctor suggested I injured some small scalpal muscles…he says its no "big > deal." Does anybody out there have any idea what happened? Why the ADs quit > working after these spasms occured? What can I do to fix it?(if anything) I > realize some people may read this and not believe it but its the honest > truth. My situation is not in the books anywhere I believe. Has anybody else > out there heard of a similar situation? I know the Risperdal had a lot to do > with it…have no doubt in my mind. Please post a message here or Email me > directly at ERidd5…@aol.com if you have any ideas or suggestions. I dont > need "cheer up" messages, I need real help. > disgusted, frustrated and scared in NC > Eric Riddick
Sorry Eric, I just saw your message; i had something like what you describe upon withdrawal – i really cannot say it is the same cause because the drugs are different; however, I found that benzodiazepines helped immensely – can you ask your doc about that? Also take this question to Dr. Bob’s? http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/babble.html good luck Squiggles — … And so, without illusions and without hope, I shall carry on until the day I disappear into the shadows I came out of one day, an ephemeral and vain creature. - Isabelle Eberhardt
Response:
SqUiGgLeS <squig…@sympatico.ca> wrote in message <news:3D07904D.37235042@sympatico.ca>…
… > I believe you. I would like to know which drugs you are talking > about; because you know sometimes it is not the drugs or treatment > per se, but the synchrony, interactions, other conditions, and > DOSE (Paracelsus knew this thousands of years ago). I will attest > to the damage done by drugs, personally – I know this. Ignorance > is always a factor in pharmacology especially psychopharmacology and > especially when they are in a rush to get the new model out.
IMHO, patients should be allowed to make their own decisions regarding whether they will take any drug — from birth control pills, to antibiotics and antipsychotics. If a patient is forced to take drugs involuntarily, the doctor making such demands should become liable for any and all effects of the drugs, desirable and undesirable. If an antidepressant has "suicidal tendencies" as a side effect, and a psy-doc forces a patient to take it, and the patient then commits suicide, I think the psy-doc should be held responsible. If a mood stabilizer has "liver damage" as a possible side effect, and a psy-doc forces a patient to take it, the patient should be able to sue the psy-doc for any and all injury: if the patient has liver failure, the patient should be able to demand that the psy-doc’s liver be removed. Psy-docs should NOT go un-punished for the harm they cause many of their patients. In some cases they should justifiably be put to death (such as when a patient develops tardive dyskinesia from involuntary drug use). Living a life with tardive dyskinesia is a fate worse than death, IMHO. Such people are generally social outcasts after acquiring tardive dyskinesia. And only because a psy-doc mandated the use of certain antipsychotics that have a strong likelihood of causing tardive dyskinesia! At the moment psy-docs can just have patients with tardive dyskinesia locked in state hospitals where no one can witness how they have harmed the patients. I consider this a crime against humanity, no different, really, from Hitler and Nazis at places like Auschwitz during WWII. Just that Hitler and Nazis have been replaced by psy-docs, and Jews have been replaced by those considered to be mentally ill. IMHO we need to find a way to treat the mentally ill with kindness and understanding (and drugs, if they so desire, and if the drugs truly help their condition).
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Garfunkel wrote: > SqUiGgLeS <squig…@sympatico.ca> wrote in message <news:3D0649CE.C285EB78@sympatico.ca>… > > Perhaps you are not aware of how awful certain medical > > conditions can be – awful enough that even though the drugs > > are not perfect, they are far superiour to something that > > has passed a vitamin test. Vitamins, unless given in very > > high toxic dosages, furthermore, are not as likely to be > > as effective and dangerous as some less than perfect drugs. > > Squiggles > That is why patients should be allowed to sign a waiver that indicates > they absolve the doctor of all responsibility regarding side effects. > I’ve seen too many instances in the mental health system where the > patient is prescribed medicines without being warned of possible side > effects, and/or where the patient has not been permitted to refuse > medications with potentially devastating side effects. I have > witnessed a number of patients who have had their minds destroyed — > they were once normally functioning human beings, but after all the > "let’s try this drug" experimentation by psychiatrists, their > cognitive ability was destroyed, and their movements were punctuated > by Parkinsonism tremors (in addition to the bizarre movements that > accompany a side-effect such as tardive dyskinesia). The most > seriously ill people I have seen in mental hospitals are as they are > NOT from their initial illness, but from wayward attempts by doctors > to prescribe harmful drugs to "FIX" them. > We need to stop harming the mentally ill and the ignorant members of > our society who may not have the knowledge or opportunity to refuse > many of the harmful drugs and treatments (such as ECT) that psy-docs > suggest or demand for them. There is little effort, based on my > observations and experience, to inform psychiatric patients of the > potential harm of the medication regimens suggested for them. > We need to fix this problem. Maybe requiring "informed consent" for > all psychiatric drugs will help — as long as the information form > that must be signed lists all possible side effects, and as long as > "lack of consent" is an acceptable response from the patient. And if > the patient encounters a problem not listed on the form, he/she should > be able to demand suitable reparation from the psy-doc, including the > death penalty, when appropriate (such as any permanent harm to the > patient, like tardive dyskinesia or impotence). As long as doctors > have nothing to lose, they will continue to prescribe drugs as if they > are incapable of harming the patients! So we must devise schemes that > give them "something to lose"! Without such schemes, there is no > driving force to get them to change their behaviour that they have > been practicing since the advent of psychiatric pharmaceuticals > approx. 50 years ago!
I believe you. I would like to know which drugs you are talking about; because you know sometimes it is not the drugs or treatment per se, but the synchrony, interactions, other conditions, and DOSE (Paracelsus knew this thousands of years ago). I will attest to the damage done by drugs, personally – I know this. Ignorance is always a factor in pharmacology especially psychopharmacology and especially when they are in a rush to get the new model out. As for signing an affidavit or permission slip – I don’t think that helps, except for suing if they screw up. Also consider the consequences of this – no doctor will be willing to treat anyone and lack of treatment can be as bad as bad treatment. Squiggles — Reality must take precedence over public relations; for nature cannot be fooled. — Richard P. Feynman
Response:
SqUiGgLeS <squig…@sympatico.ca> wrote in message <news:3D0649CE.C285EB78@sympatico.ca>… > Perhaps you are not aware of how awful certain medical > conditions can be – awful enough that even though the drugs > are not perfect, they are far superiour to something that > has passed a vitamin test. Vitamins, unless given in very > high toxic dosages, furthermore, are not as likely to be > as effective and dangerous as some less than perfect drugs. > Squiggles
That is why patients should be allowed to sign a waiver that indicates they absolve the doctor of all responsibility regarding side effects. I’ve seen too many instances in the mental health system where the patient is prescribed medicines without being warned of possible side effects, and/or where the patient has not been permitted to refuse medications with potentially devastating side effects. I have witnessed a number of patients who have had their minds destroyed — they were once normally functioning human beings, but after all the "let’s try this drug" experimentation by psychiatrists, their cognitive ability was destroyed, and their movements were punctuated by Parkinsonism tremors (in addition to the bizarre movements that accompany a side-effect such as tardive dyskinesia). The most seriously ill people I have seen in mental hospitals are as they are NOT from their initial illness, but from wayward attempts by doctors to prescribe harmful drugs to "FIX" them. We need to stop harming the mentally ill and the ignorant members of our society who may not have the knowledge or opportunity to refuse many of the harmful drugs and treatments (such as ECT) that psy-docs suggest or demand for them. There is little effort, based on my observations and experience, to inform psychiatric patients of the potential harm of the medication regimens suggested for them. We need to fix this problem. Maybe requiring "informed consent" for all psychiatric drugs will help — as long as the information form that must be signed lists all possible side effects, and as long as "lack of consent" is an acceptable response from the patient. And if the patient encounters a problem not listed on the form, he/she should be able to demand suitable reparation from the psy-doc, including the death penalty, when appropriate (such as any permanent harm to the patient, like tardive dyskinesia or impotence). As long as doctors have nothing to lose, they will continue to prescribe drugs as if they are incapable of harming the patients! So we must devise schemes that give them "something to lose"! Without such schemes, there is no driving force to get them to change their behaviour that they have been practicing since the advent of psychiatric pharmaceuticals approx. 50 years ago!
Response:
Garfunkel wrote: > I have taken multivitamins for decades, at "normal" dosages (not like > Linus Pauling’s Vitamin-C kick) and have suffered no undesirable > reactions. > Pharmaceutical companies should be required to develop drugs with > similar track records to multivitamins. Until they have attained that > goal, all their products should be considered "experimental" and given > freely to anyone willing to take them!
Perhaps you are not aware of how awful certain medical conditions can be – awful enough that even though the drugs are not perfect, they are far superiour to something that has passed a vitamin test. Vitamins, unless given in very high toxic dosages, furthermore, are not as likely to be as effective and dangerous as some less than perfect drugs. Squiggles — Reality must take precedence over public relations; for nature cannot be fooled. — Richard P. Feynman
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Garfunkel wrote: > I think we could put a stop to such undesirable "bad reactions" if we > permitted public execution of doctors who prescribe drugs that cause > "bad" or even "undesirable" reactions (such as impotence). > I recently read in the paper that Vietnam permits public execution > when adults sexually rape minors under the age of 13. > Is the "rape" of our brains any less significant than the defilement > of our sexual organs? I hardly think so! > So let’s execute all psychiatrists who prescribe drugs that cause > "bad" or "undesirable" reactions in one or more of their patients. I > think this will solve the problem rather quickly, and ensure that the > solution can endure for a long time. > (Back in the days of the "Code of Hammurabi" there were rather severe > penalties for physicians who harmed patients. None of this rather > weak "malpractice insurance" financial penalty nonsense. Stuff like > "remove the hand of a surgeon that causes a patient to feel less well > after an operation than before." Surgeons don’t make many mistakes > under such circumstances [hard to tie sutures with only one hand, and > hard to make incisions and tie sutures when both hands have been > amputated].) > Somehow we must get psychiatrists back on the track of avoiding harm > to their patients. If the patients insist on drugs, then the doctor > should get the patient to sign a release that absolves the doctor of > responsibility for any harm caused by the drug. But ONLY under such > circumstances should psychiatric drugs ever enter the body of any > patient! > Let’s get this problem under control, once and for all!
_________ You talk a lot, but say little. Squiggles — … And so, without illusions and without hope, I shall carry on until the day I disappear into the shadows I came out of one day, an ephemeral and vain creature. - Isabelle Eberhardt
Response:
In article <8b5a5198.0206100813.3efa…@posting.google.com>, gentleman1…@yahoo.com (Garfunkel) wrote: >I think we could put a stop to such undesirable "bad reactions" if we >permitted public execution of doctors who prescribe drugs that cause >"bad" or even "undesirable" reactions (such as impotence).
There goes all the doc. ALL medications have some undesirable side effects. Taking that its (ill)logical conclusion, you should probably be offed if you give someone an aspirin that causes them to have a tummy ache. ——————————————————– "Writers even write the silences" -J. Michael Straczynski
Response:
kurtull…@yahoo.com (Kurt Ullman) wrote in message <news:Sc6N8.7226$Pv2.529@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>… > In article <8b5a5198.0206100813.3efa…@posting.google.com>, > gentleman1…@yahoo.com (Garfunkel) wrote: > >I think we could put a stop to such undesirable "bad reactions" if we > >permitted public execution of doctors who prescribe drugs that cause > >"bad" or even "undesirable" reactions (such as impotence). > There goes all the doc. ALL medications have some undesirable > side effects. Taking that its (ill)logical conclusion, you should probably > be offed if you give someone an aspirin that causes them to have a tummy ache.
I have taken multivitamins for decades, at "normal" dosages (not like Linus Pauling’s Vitamin-C kick) and have suffered no undesirable reactions. Pharmaceutical companies should be required to develop drugs with similar track records to multivitamins. Until they have attained that goal, all their products should be considered "experimental" and given freely to anyone willing to take them!
Response:
I think we could put a stop to such undesirable "bad reactions" if we permitted public execution of doctors who prescribe drugs that cause "bad" or even "undesirable" reactions (such as impotence). I recently read in the paper that Vietnam permits public execution when adults sexually rape minors under the age of 13. Is the "rape" of our brains any less significant than the defilement of our sexual organs? I hardly think so! So let’s execute all psychiatrists who prescribe drugs that cause "bad" or "undesirable" reactions in one or more of their patients. I think this will solve the problem rather quickly, and ensure that the solution can endure for a long time. (Back in the days of the "Code of Hammurabi" there were rather severe penalties for physicians who harmed patients. None of this rather weak "malpractice insurance" financial penalty nonsense. Stuff like "remove the hand of a surgeon that causes a patient to feel less well after an operation than before." Surgeons don’t make many mistakes under such circumstances [hard to tie sutures with only one hand, and hard to make incisions and tie sutures when both hands have been amputated].) Somehow we must get psychiatrists back on the track of avoiding harm to their patients. If the patients insist on drugs, then the doctor should get the patient to sign a release that absolves the doctor of responsibility for any harm caused by the drug. But ONLY under such circumstances should psychiatric drugs ever enter the body of any patient! Let’s get this problem under control, once and for all!
