Desperately seeking advice re my sleeping disorder
Question:
On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 00:31:55 GMT, njs pontificated at length: >They dish this out just like candy. Probably they have some vested >interests, since you can see the pills they give out advertised outside >in their reception room.
What are you seeing are the results of manufacturer detailing… if you listen to the sales pitch, you’ll get literature and free samples for your patients. I’ve had them rotate me through several samples in a row to figure out what works without having to buy a mess of different meds. In some parts of the USA, some innovative health insurance companies have been turning this model on its head. If you listen to the sales pitch, you’ll get free literature about generic drugs and free samples of generic drugs for your patients. — "So many sneakers, not enough feet." http://sneakers.pair.com/
Response:
Hello, I read "No More Sleepless Nights" and I am struggling. Two years ago, I went through a divorce, a hysterectomy, and because I was the one who wanted the divorce, I moved out. I also tried to go off my hormone therapy (big mistake) which only added to my anxiety. Initially, I knew I had a sleep problem, but didn’t think too much about it. Then the problem became extreme. I was sleeping 2 to 3 hours a night and would wait to feel tired the next night so that I could sleep. Oddly, I didn’t become tired like I would have before the severe insomnia began, and I would end up going to bed about the same late hour. I applied Hauri’s recipe for "conditioned insomnia" and after a few nights, I was doing well, sleeping 6 to 7 hours which is acceptable after 2 – 3. The problem is that just when I’m starting to feel good and rested, and I think how great it is and I have that lovely feeling of not wanting to get out of my bed, I started thinking "what if I can’t sleep again"? Hence: here I am sleeping 2 to 3 hours again! I don’t feel depressed except for when I don’t sleep. My problem that I defeat myself and I don’t know how to stop it. When I lay in bed and feel myself drifting, I think "Oh God, I’m starting to fall asleep. What if I don’t?" I finally get fed up and think the hell with this, and then I sleep, but after I regain my strength, I’m back at worring whether it will stay. I can go into a deep meditative state, and no matter how little I’ve slept, I just lay there with my brain feeling completely blank like a brick. Does anyone know what I should do? Sorry this is so long, I just don’t know how else to say it, and I’m too sleep deprived to try and concentrate on structuring it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Interestingly doctors when not being able to diagnose insomnia, in order to >chase away the insomniac use the >"trial and error" approach. >Anti-depression (x mg) + Ant-anxiety (y mg) + sleep agent/benzo (z mg) >They dish this out just like candy. Probably they have some vested interests, >since you can see the pills >they give out advertised outside in their reception room. >Intitally my doctor started with nortryptaline, then paxil, then effexor (and >was ready for some buspar), and >then i realized i was stupid to listen to her. It did zero difference other >than the placebo effect, which >made me sleep. Ambien and Remeron (which has severe drowsy side-effects) were >the only ones i could believe >in, since they work 99% of the time.Funny thing of remeron, even if i cut a >1/30 of a 15mg pill (as minute as >possible), i will feel sleepy the next 2 days. No wonder its called REM-eron >(for REM sleep). >The greatest observation i had about insomnia is that the stage 3, 4 (deltas) >and REM (stage 5) are the most >important, and the brain compensates these in an insomniac when he does >sleep, with recovery sleep for these >2 stages (in fast-forward motion). Greg Jacobs understands sleep the best, I >have so far come across. >I used to have a cold-sore outbreak once every 2 years when I was a champion >sleeper ( 8 + hours). But >strangely when i slept 3 hours during my nightmarish insomnia days, no >episodes of cold sores, no common >colds, nothing. Just the perfect guy with the perfect BMI (no weight >gain/loss, no hypertension, high blood >sugar etc..). >I followed the Greg Jacobs and Peter Hauri drug free approach and I am >perfectly fine now. You have to work >hard to make it happen, since no-one but you will worry about your sleep, let >alone the doctor. >insomnia is a real pain in the neck, but its the hardest to treat, mainly >because the more you worry and try >to fall asleep, the more it will keep you awake. >dabeaglefurpi…@yahoo.com wrote: >> "Bob Weight" <bwei…@sympatico.ca> wrote in message ><news:JZ8zc.7868$nY.184009@news20.bellglobal.com>… >> > David, after loosing a job you have held for that length of time, you are >> > bound to be in some sort of shock, even if you don’t realize it. I would >be >> > suprised if you weren’t going through some sort of depressive episode. >> > Trazidone can help, but your dosages are still pretty low – it also takes >> > several weeks before you necessarily see results overall. >> > See your doctor again, and possibly a good counsellor. >> > Bob >> My doctor has discontinued the Trazodone and given me 12.5 mg Paxil, >> as my anxiety and nerves are really getting the better of me and >> keeping me from a restful sleep. The Paxil is supposed to calm me down >> and the Xopiclone is taken before bedtime, for sleeping. But he said >> the it takes a couple of weeks before the Paxil takes effect. It will >> probably seem like months, and I will give up. My nerves and stomach >> are driving me up the wall.
Response:
David, after loosing a job you have held for that length of time, you are bound to be in some sort of shock, even if you don’t realize it. I would be suprised if you weren’t going through some sort of depressive episode. Trazidone can help, but your dosages are still pretty low – it also takes several weeks before you necessarily see results overall. See your doctor again, and possibly a good counsellor. Bob
Response:
"Bob Weight" <bwei…@sympatico.ca> wrote in message <news:JZ8zc.7868$nY.184009@news20.bellglobal.com>… > David, after loosing a job you have held for that length of time, you are > bound to be in some sort of shock, even if you don’t realize it. I would be > suprised if you weren’t going through some sort of depressive episode. > Trazidone can help, but your dosages are still pretty low – it also takes > several weeks before you necessarily see results overall. > See your doctor again, and possibly a good counsellor. > Bob
My doctor has discontinued the Trazodone and given me 12.5 mg Paxil, as my anxiety and nerves are really getting the better of me and keeping me from a restful sleep. The Paxil is supposed to calm me down and the Xopiclone is taken before bedtime, for sleeping. But he said the it takes a couple of weeks before the Paxil takes effect. It will probably seem like months, and I will give up. My nerves and stomach are driving me up the wall.
Response:
Interestingly doctors when not being able to diagnose insomnia, in order to chase away the insomniac use the "trial and error" approach. Anti-depression (x mg) + Ant-anxiety (y mg) + sleep agent/benzo (z mg) They dish this out just like candy. Probably they have some vested interests, since you can see the pills they give out advertised outside in their reception room. Intitally my doctor started with nortryptaline, then paxil, then effexor (and was ready for some buspar), and then i realized i was stupid to listen to her. It did zero difference other than the placebo effect, which made me sleep. Ambien and Remeron (which has severe drowsy side-effects) were the only ones i could believe in, since they work 99% of the time.Funny thing of remeron, even if i cut a 1/30 of a 15mg pill (as minute as possible), i will feel sleepy the next 2 days. No wonder its called REM-eron (for REM sleep). The greatest observation i had about insomnia is that the stage 3, 4 (deltas) and REM (stage 5) are the most important, and the brain compensates these in an insomniac when he does sleep, with recovery sleep for these 2 stages (in fast-forward motion). Greg Jacobs understands sleep the best, I have so far come across. I used to have a cold-sore outbreak once every 2 years when I was a champion sleeper ( 8 + hours). But strangely when i slept 3 hours during my nightmarish insomnia days, no episodes of cold sores, no common colds, nothing. Just the perfect guy with the perfect BMI (no weight gain/loss, no hypertension, high blood sugar etc..). I followed the Greg Jacobs and Peter Hauri drug free approach and I am perfectly fine now. You have to work hard to make it happen, since no-one but you will worry about your sleep, let alone the doctor. insomnia is a real pain in the neck, but its the hardest to treat, mainly because the more you worry and try to fall asleep, the more it will keep you awake. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -dabeaglefurpi…@yahoo.com wrote: > "Bob Weight" <bwei…@sympatico.ca> wrote in message <news:JZ8zc.7868$nY.184009@news20.bellglobal.com>… > > David, after loosing a job you have held for that length of time, you are > > bound to be in some sort of shock, even if you don’t realize it. I would be > > suprised if you weren’t going through some sort of depressive episode. > > Trazidone can help, but your dosages are still pretty low – it also takes > > several weeks before you necessarily see results overall. > > See your doctor again, and possibly a good counsellor. > > Bob > My doctor has discontinued the Trazodone and given me 12.5 mg Paxil, > as my anxiety and nerves are really getting the better of me and > keeping me from a restful sleep. The Paxil is supposed to calm me down > and the Xopiclone is taken before bedtime, for sleeping. But he said > the it takes a couple of weeks before the Paxil takes effect. It will > probably seem like months, and I will give up. My nerves and stomach > are driving me up the wall.
Response:
Hello everyone.. This is my first attempt at a call for help to this group, but I’m slowly going crazy due to poor sleep. I don’t think I’ve had a proper nights sleep (except for last Tuesday night) in the past two months. I lost my job (in January) after 29 years of continuous working, and now my system "clock" seems to have gone out of whack, now that the normal daily routine has been broken and my body has caught up to the change. I’m not stressed financially as I got a good 2 1/2 years salary in severance. My sleep pattern in the past two months is basically this…I go to bed around 11:00pm, lie there for hours, sleep does not seem to come until after 3:00am. It seems I go straight into REM because I do recall having vivid dreams, yet I’m back awake around 4:30am and can’t get back to sleep. Two weeks ago my doctor prescribed 25mg of Trazodone before bedtime, to help me go to sleep. I seemed to get a little sleep for about three nights out of a week. The dreams seem to have gone but the underlying sleep pattern remains the same, just slightly buffered my the meds. Now, the odd thing is that nights where I was sure I had gotten no sleep, I felt refreshed the next morning, but around late morning it would change to an anxiety which gave me a queasy stomach and took away my appetite. From noon to about 2:30 in the afternoon, the queasy stomach persists and it’s like a juggling act with the stomach and anxiety/depressed feeling and I have sat down and cried, just to get it out and to feel better. I go for long walks in the morning (as advised by my physician) but as soon as my energy drains, I go into the depressed/queasy stomach mode. Now….I am the type that if I get a good sleep, I’m fine. Sure, there are things that worry me and bother me but I always can cope with them when I’m rested. When I’m not rested, I can’t think logically and fears and worries become magnified and turn into anxiety and adrenaline pumping from fatigue. Then my body just fights with itself and I’m exhausted and wired up at the same time. Then I go to bed at night worrying about not being able to sleep and it’s set in motion one more time. I went back to the doctor this past Tuesday and my physical results all checked out fine, so that was a good sign. I told him I still was not sleeping and he said to increase the Trazodone to 50mg and he also gave me Zopiclone (7.5mg) to take before bedtime. I took my first new dosage Tuesday night and fell asleep before my head hit the pillow. I woke up around 6:30am, realizing I’d slept right through. Wow, did I feel better! Even just knowing that I had some relief (Zopiclone) to turn to if I couldn’t sleep. I felt good in the morning and had a great day with positive feelings, hardly any anxiety, although I did run out of gas towards the evening, which is understandable. So I took the same meds at the same time last night, and I did not get to sleep until after about 3:30am. I just cannot put two good nights sleep together. Today I am very discouraged and bummed out. I feel like nothing will get me to sleep properly. I simply cannot understand why the Zopiclone did not get me to sleep as it had the night before. If there are troubling thoughts in your subconscious, will they override the meds ability to do it’s thing? I’m really at my wits end. It’s like I climb out of a whole then fall right back in and I’m going crazy. I’m really not being much help for my wife and son and I don’t want to burden them, even though they are very supportive. I appreciate any help that anyone can provide. I’m getting very desperate. Thanks! David
Response:
> I don’t think I’ve had a proper nights sleep (except for last Tuesday > night) in the past two months. I lost my job (in January) after 29 > years of continuous working, and now my system "clock" seems to have > gone out of whack, now that the normal daily routine has been broken > and my body has caught up to the change. I’m not stressed financially > as I got a good 2 1/2 years salary in severance.
Hi It sounds to me like you need to focus on the trigger for this problem rather than try and cover up the symptoms. You said yourself, it started after you stopped working and your routine went out the window. I wonder if you should perhaps focus your energies on establishing a NEW routine – and give your body time to adjust to doing things like eating and sleeping at a regular time every day – simliar to the pattern you had when you were working. It may be hard, because you’re not going to be doing what you were doing in the past to fill in your day, but it seems that rather than putting on a bandaid, you need to treat the root of the problem, which you pointed out in your opening paragraph. Take a look at the hints on this page that talks about "sleep hygeine" http://talhost.net/sleep/insomnia.htm — Beth in Australia (I am not a qualified medical professional and unless I quote sources anything posted by me is my opinion only and you should always check with your doctor) ============================================= Sleep Disorders Newsgroup FAQ Website http://talhost.net/sleep Newsgroup archives http://www.talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Tal" <goer…@hotmail.com> wrote in message <news:2itcgoFqo8irU1@uni-berlin.de>… > > I don’t think I’ve had a proper nights sleep (except for last Tuesday > > night) in the past two months. I lost my job (in January) after 29 > > years of continuous working, and now my system "clock" seems to have > > gone out of whack, now that the normal daily routine has been broken > > and my body has caught up to the change. I’m not stressed financially > > as I got a good 2 1/2 years salary in severance. > Hi > It sounds to me like you need to focus on the trigger for this problem > rather than try and cover up the symptoms. You said yourself, it started > after you stopped working and your routine went out the window. I wonder if > you should perhaps focus your energies on establishing a NEW routine – and > give your body time to adjust to doing things like eating and sleeping at a > regular time every day – simliar to the pattern you had when you were > working. It may be hard, because you’re not going to be doing what you were > doing in the past to fill in your day, but it seems that rather than putting > on a bandaid, you need to treat the root of the problem, which you pointed > out in your opening paragraph. > Take a look at the hints on this page that talks about "sleep hygeine" > http://talhost.net/sleep/insomnia.htm
Thank you for your reply. I do not doubt that the sleep problems eventually began due to my change in daily routine. I still go to sleep at the same time every night and get up around the same time every day, then drive my wife to work. I do have a routine which starts my day. But due to the lack of sleep, I run out of energy by mid morning, then the anxiety sets in. But the anxiety comes from worrying about my plight of not sleeping so it became a vicious circle. Those are good hints for "sleep hygeine". I think the key one is to stay out of the bedroom except for when it’s time for bed. This tells your body that it is time for rest, rather than distract you into some other activity you might do there, like reading or watching TV. If I could stop the anxiety/nervous stomach, I could relax and sleep. But it is very difficult.
