Erratic Sleep Patterns
Question:
Wait a minute Steve, I never said we were limiting sugar. I said we limited caffeine, artificial colors and flavors. I know that sugar is not a problem, otherwise, the orange juice would be a problem. So would fruit and any other natural source of sugar. It is not the sugar that we are concerned about it is things like red dyes, preservatives, etc. And no, it has not been proven that those things cause a problem either, but they certainly aren’t something you have to have in your diet either and are not really good for you, so why not get rid of them. Nique
Okey-dokey. But there is no demonstrable effect from most flavors either, OR colors. Most "artificial flavors and colors" are "artificial" only in name and are found in natural foods as well. There are a few exceptions, but notably truly artificial flavors/colors have been less successful. Even caffeine is shown not to have the kind of effect imagined that is connected to kids running around frenetically, and in fact it is shown to make them sit more quietly!! The term stimulant really isn’t quite accurate regarding caffeine or theobromine in chocolate. It has a range of all very paradoxical effects. But the important research result is the revelation that "junk-food hyperactivity/misbehavior" is strictly a western parental myth, and that only when the parent is told they have consumed such does the parent then simply attribute any activity to that as a way of invaidating children’s desires and motivations all quite disingenuously and cynically. The not- so-secret desire of western parents is to have a reason to deny children merely to feel powerful and official. This is caused by the childhood expectations of power and special status as an adult that are implicit in the western world’s dishonoring and disrespecting of the young child. The adult former-child sees this abuse of children as an entitlement and one that finally confers adulthood on the adult. In other words, it’s founded in nothing but pure neurosis and secret viciousness. Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That is one thing that we are pretty controlled about. None of my children eat lots of sweets or ANY caffeine at all. They do not get candies of any kind except on special occasions. We give them milk and fruit juices like OJ, etc. We avoid artifical colors and flavors as much as possible as well. Her diet at this point is as controlled as we can manage affordable with time and money. This sort of concern is based on what has now been proven to be an old wive’s tale. The notion that sugar alters child behavior, fussiness, or health has been entirely disproven! However, the REPORT of the child consuming sugar is shown to cause parents to blame any difficulty or trait of the child’s behavior on sugar, even IF the child really did NOT eat sugar, and even if other people think the child’s behavior is perfectly NORMAL! In other words, it was all a self-fulfilling perception of parents, and not any actual truth about sugar. Steve
Response:
Ok, I am going to try to work with you here, because underneath some of the abusive tone you take on the NG there are sometimes valuable pieces of information. How if I am simply choosing to provide my children with natural foods and eliminating man made preservatives, colors, etc. and limiting their intake of things that are "empty calories" anyway is this abusive? I don’t tell them "No you can never have candy". I simply do not stock those items in my house. They have lots of choices of good food that is healthy for their growing bodies that also tastes good. Or am I misinterpreting what you are saying here? Nique – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wait a minute Steve, I never said we were limiting sugar. I said we limited caffeine, artificial colors and flavors. I know that sugar is not a problem, otherwise, the orange juice would be a problem. So would fruit and any other natural source of sugar. It is not the sugar that we are concerned about it is things like red dyes, preservatives, etc. And no, it has not been proven that those things cause a problem either, but they certainly aren’t something you have to have in your diet either and are not really good for you, so why not get rid of them. Nique Okey-dokey. But there is no demonstrable effect from most flavors either, OR colors. Most "artificial flavors and colors" are "artificial" only in name and are found in natural foods as well. There are a few exceptions, but notably truly artificial flavors/colors have been less successful. Even caffeine is shown not to have the kind of effect imagined that is connected to kids running around frenetically, and in fact it is shown to make them sit more quietly!! The term stimulant really isn’t quite accurate regarding caffeine or theobromine in chocolate. It has a range of all very paradoxical effects. But the important research result is the revelation that "junk-food hyperactivity/misbehavior" is strictly a western parental myth, and that only when the parent is told they have consumed such does the parent then simply attribute any activity to that as a way of invaidating children’s desires and motivations all quite disingenuously and cynically. The not- so-secret desire of western parents is to have a reason to deny children merely to feel powerful and official. This is caused by the childhood expectations of power and special status as an adult that are implicit in the western world’s dishonoring and disrespecting of the young child. The adult former-child sees this abuse of children as an entitlement and one that finally confers adulthood on the adult. In other words, it’s founded in nothing but pure neurosis and secret viciousness. Steve That is one thing that we are pretty controlled about. None of my children eat lots of sweets or ANY caffeine at all. They do not get candies of any kind except on special occasions. We give them milk and fruit juices like OJ, etc. We avoid artifical colors and flavors as much as possible as well. Her diet at this point is as controlled as we can manage affordable with time and money. This sort of concern is based on what has now been proven to be an old wive’s tale. The notion that sugar alters child behavior, fussiness, or health has been entirely disproven! However, the REPORT of the child consuming sugar is shown to cause parents to blame any difficulty or trait of the child’s behavior on sugar, even IF the child really did NOT eat sugar, and even if other people think the child’s behavior is perfectly NORMAL! In other words, it was all a self-fulfilling perception of parents, and not any actual truth about sugar. Steve
Response:
That is one thing that we are pretty controlled about. None of my children eat lots of sweets or ANY caffeine at all. They do not get candies of any kind except on special occasions. We give them milk and fruit juices like OJ, etc. We avoid artifical colors and flavors as much as possible as well. Her diet at this point is as controlled as we can manage affordable with time and money.
This sort of concern is based on what has now been proven to be an old wive’s tale. The notion that sugar alters child behavior, fussiness, or health has been entirely disproven! However, the REPORT of the child consuming sugar is shown to cause parents to blame any difficulty or trait of the child’s behavior on sugar, even IF the child really did NOT eat sugar, and even if other people think the child’s behavior is perfectly NORMAL! In other words, it was all a self-fulfilling perception of parents, and not any actual truth about sugar. Steve
Response:
Wait a minute Steve, I never said we were limiting sugar. I said we limited caffeine, artificial colors and flavors. I know that sugar is not a problem, otherwise, the orange juice would be a problem. So would fruit and any other natural source of sugar. It is not the sugar that we are concerned about it is things like red dyes, preservatives, etc. And no, it has not been proven that those things cause a problem either, but they certainly aren’t something you have to have in your diet either and are not really good for you, so why not get rid of them. Nique – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That is one thing that we are pretty controlled about. None of my children eat lots of sweets or ANY caffeine at all. They do not get candies of any kind except on special occasions. We give them milk and fruit juices like OJ, etc. We avoid artifical colors and flavors as much as possible as well. Her diet at this point is as controlled as we can manage affordable with time and money. This sort of concern is based on what has now been proven to be an old wive’s tale. The notion that sugar alters child behavior, fussiness, or health has been entirely disproven! However, the REPORT of the child consuming sugar is shown to cause parents to blame any difficulty or trait of the child’s behavior on sugar, even IF the child really did NOT eat sugar, and even if other people think the child’s behavior is perfectly NORMAL! In other words, it was all a self-fulfilling perception of parents, and not any actual truth about sugar. Steve
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wait a minute Steve, I never said we were limiting sugar. I said we limited caffeine, artificial colors and flavors. I know that sugar is not a problem, otherwise, the orange juice would be a problem. So would fruit and any other natural source of sugar. It is not the sugar that we are concerned about it is things like red dyes, preservatives, etc. And no, it has not been proven that those things cause a problem either, but they certainly aren’t something you have to have in your diet either and are not really good for you, so why not get rid of them. Nique Okey-dokey. But there is no demonstrable effect from most flavors either, OR colors. Most "artificial flavors and colors" are "artificial" only in name and are found in natural foods as well. There are a few exceptions, but notably truly artificial flavors/colors have been less successful. I have a long list on my refrigerator door (distributed by a major French hospital), of food colorings and their effects, ranging from intestinal disturbances to cancerous. –Lisabell
Don’t believe such things. Ask the FDA, you PAY them for their knowledge, and nobody pays them to lie. Steve
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wait a minute Steve, I never said we were limiting sugar. I said we limited caffeine, artificial colors and flavors. I know that sugar is not a problem, otherwise, the orange juice would be a problem. So would fruit and any other natural source of sugar. It is not the sugar that we are concerned about it is things like red dyes, preservatives, etc. And no, it has not been proven that those things cause a problem either, but they certainly aren’t something you have to have in your diet either and are not really good for you, so why not get rid of them. Nique Okey-dokey. But there is no demonstrable effect from most flavors either, OR colors. Most "artificial flavors and colors" are "artificial" only in name and are found in natural foods as well. There are a few exceptions, but notably truly artificial flavors/colors have been less successful.
I have a long list on my refrigerator door (distributed by a major French hospital), of food colorings and their effects, ranging from intestinal disturbances to cancerous. –Lisabell
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That is one thing that we are pretty controlled about. None of my children eat lots of sweets or ANY caffeine at all. They do not get candies of any kind except on special occasions. We give them milk and fruit juices like OJ, etc. We avoid artifical colors and flavors as much as possible as well. Her diet at this point is as controlled as we can manage affordable with time and money. This sort of concern is based on what has now been proven to be an old wive’s tale. The notion that sugar alters child behavior, fussiness, or health has been entirely disproven! However, the REPORT of the child consuming sugar is shown to cause parents to blame any difficulty or trait of the child’s behavior on sugar, even IF the child really did NOT eat sugar, and even if other people think the child’s behavior is perfectly NORMAL! In other words, it was all a self-fulfilling perception of parents, and not any actual truth about sugar. Steve Oh Phooey, Steve. Dunk a kid in cotton candy, pepsi and M&M’s during a carnival and watch them spin……it’s quite amusing.
Sorry, that’s just the effect of the carnival, and the special occasion and unfamiliar surroundings. It does it to adults too. I have seen parents give their kids this kind of stuff at bedtime and wonder why they have to peel them from the ceiling.
They feed it to them only on special occasions and carnivals and then pretend that when they take them home they should go right to bed and be able to sleep when they’re still wound-up from the excitement of the night! How stupid. The candy has nothing to do with it. It’s just not me telling you this, it’s the actual research, so get over it!! Parents don’t like to believe it because they have a different agenda involved in their claim. If sugar has nothing to do with behavior & health, then please explain diabetes and hypoglycemia and why all folks suffering from both have their diet looked at first to help control their sugar levels?
Being diabetic myself, I know it is the fat and total calories in the diet that has more effect here. I can run my blood sugar into a dangerous range just as easily with whole-grain pasta as with sugar, and sugars are no longer restricted for diabetics, they must simply be consumed more slowly. They actually run the sugar up more quickly, BUT they also permit it to come down more quickly than more complex carcbohydrates. That’s all. Also, the point must be made that high fat diets have a higher link to causing diabetes, and that sugar and carbohydrate is only a problem when diabetes occurs. The foods that most contribute to diabetes or hypoglycemia being more managable are low fat but unsaturated fat and high protein. If you get those the only remainder that seems to matter is total caloric consumption. So my double espresso in the mornings is for naught???? Sedona
The more we look at caffeine the more it seems to have numerous salutory effects. It seems to prevent Alzheimers, some cancers, and some degenerative conditions. Steve
Response:
Ok, I am going to try to work with you here, because underneath some of the abusive tone you take on the NG there are sometimes valuable pieces of information. How if I am simply choosing to provide my children with natural foods and eliminating man made preservatives, colors, etc. and limiting their intake of things that are "empty calories" anyway is this abusive? I don’t tell them "No you can never have candy". I simply do not stock those items in my house. They have lots of choices of good food that is healthy for their growing bodies that also tastes good. Or am I misinterpreting what you are saying here? Nique
It’s called being overprotective, and it’s abusive. If you can’t tell us how you’re guarding your children from provable harm then you’re falling into the category of being OVER-protective, and thus abusive. And so far, the actual info from the science is that neither sugar nor flavors/colors have any danger that you can justifably worry about. In other words if you keep grabbing people and wrestling them out of harms way when they’re standing in the middle of a cornfield with no "traffic" in sight, they will come to call you a fucking nutcake. A feeling that SOME tractor or truck might be there SOME time is simply not persuasive!! Mentioning your fear is fine, living it is not. Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wait a minute Steve, I never said we were limiting sugar. I said we limited caffeine, artificial colors and flavors. I know that sugar is not a problem, otherwise, the orange juice would be a problem. So would fruit and any other natural source of sugar. It is not the sugar that we are concerned about it is things like red dyes, preservatives, etc. And no, it has not been proven that those things cause a problem either, but they certainly aren’t something you have to have in your diet either and are not really good for you, so why not get rid of them. Nique Okey-dokey. But there is no demonstrable effect from most flavors either, OR colors. Most "artificial flavors and colors" are "artificial" only in name and are found in natural foods as well. There are a few exceptions, but notably truly artificial flavors/colors have been less successful. Even caffeine is shown not to have the kind of effect imagined that is connected to kids running around frenetically, and in fact it is shown to make them sit more quietly!! The term stimulant really isn’t quite accurate regarding caffeine or theobromine in chocolate. It has a range of all very paradoxical effects. But the important research result is the revelation that "junk-food hyperactivity/misbehavior" is strictly a western parental myth, and that only when the parent is told they have consumed such does the parent then simply attribute any activity to that as a way of invaidating children’s desires and motivations all quite disingenuously and cynically. The not- so-secret desire of western parents is to have a reason to deny children merely to feel powerful and official. This is caused by the childhood expectations of power and special status as an adult that are implicit in the western world’s dishonoring and disrespecting of the young child. The adult former-child sees this abuse of children as an entitlement and one that finally confers adulthood on the adult. In other words, it’s founded in nothing but pure neurosis and secret viciousness. Steve That is one thing that we are pretty controlled about. None of my children eat lots of sweets or ANY caffeine at all. They do not get candies of any kind except on special occasions. We give them milk and fruit juices like OJ, etc. We avoid artifical colors and flavors as much as possible as well. Her diet at this point is as controlled as we can manage affordable with time and money. This sort of concern is based on what has now been proven to be an old wive’s tale. The notion that sugar alters child behavior, fussiness, or health has been entirely disproven! However, the REPORT of the child consuming sugar is shown to cause parents to blame any difficulty or trait of the child’s behavior on sugar, even IF the child really did NOT eat sugar, and even if other people think the child’s behavior is perfectly NORMAL! In other words, it was all a self-fulfilling perception of parents, and not any actual truth about sugar. Steve
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That is one thing that we are pretty controlled about. None of my children eat lots of sweets or ANY caffeine at all. They do not get candies of any kind except on special occasions. We give them milk and fruit juices like OJ, etc. We avoid artifical colors and flavors as much as possible as well. Her diet at this point is as controlled as we can manage affordable with time and money. This sort of concern is based on what has now been proven to be an old wive’s tale. The notion that sugar alters child behavior, fussiness, or health has been entirely disproven! However, the REPORT of the child consuming sugar is shown to cause parents to blame any difficulty or trait of the child’s behavior on sugar, even IF the child really did NOT eat sugar, and even if other people think the child’s behavior is perfectly NORMAL! In other words, it was all a self-fulfilling perception of parents, and not any actual truth about sugar. Steve
Oh Phooey, Steve. Dunk a kid in cotton candy, pepsi and M&M’s during a carnival and watch them spin……it’s quite amusing. I have seen parents give their kids this kind of stuff at bedtime and wonder why they have to peel them from the ceiling. If sugar has nothing to do with behavior & health, then please explain diabetes and hypoglycemia and why all folks suffering from both have their diet looked at first to help control their sugar levels? So my double espresso in the mornings is for naught???? Sedona
Response:
And just an FYI, we like to have chocolate as a treat. I have done some reading and it is thought that chocolate is a good antidepressant. We eat more chocolate in the winter time when the "winter doldrums" set in. (Not to mention I am a chocolate fiend 
and can’t very well eat chocolate in front of the kids without giving them some too ) Nique – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wait a minute Steve, I never said we were limiting sugar. I said we limited caffeine, artificial colors and flavors. I know that sugar is not a problem, otherwise, the orange juice would be a problem. So would fruit and any other natural source of sugar. It is not the sugar that we are concerned about it is things like red dyes, preservatives, etc. And no, it has not been proven that those things cause a problem either, but they certainly aren’t something you have to have in your diet either and are not really good for you, so why not get rid of them. Nique Okey-dokey. But there is no demonstrable effect from most flavors either, OR colors. Most "artificial flavors and colors" are "artificial" only in name and are found in natural foods as well. There are a few exceptions, but notably truly artificial flavors/colors have been less successful. Even caffeine is shown not to have the kind of effect imagined that is connected to kids running around frenetically, and in fact it is shown to make them sit more quietly!! The term stimulant really isn’t quite accurate regarding caffeine or theobromine in chocolate. It has a range of all very paradoxical effects. But the important research result is the revelation that "junk-food hyperactivity/misbehavior" is strictly a western parental myth, and that only when the parent is told they have consumed such does the parent then simply attribute any activity to that as a way of invaidating children’s desires and motivations all quite disingenuously and cynically. The not- so-secret desire of western parents is to have a reason to deny children merely to feel powerful and official. This is caused by the childhood expectations of power and special status as an adult that are implicit in the western world’s dishonoring and disrespecting of the young child. The adult former-child sees this abuse of children as an entitlement and one that finally confers adulthood on the adult. In other words, it’s founded in nothing but pure neurosis and secret viciousness. Steve That is one thing that we are pretty controlled about. None of my children eat lots of sweets or ANY caffeine at all. They do not get candies of any kind except on special occasions. We give them milk and fruit juices like OJ, etc. We avoid artifical colors and flavors as much as possible as well. Her diet at this point is as controlled as we can manage affordable with time and money. This sort of concern is based on what has now been proven to be an old wive’s tale. The notion that sugar alters child behavior, fussiness, or health has been entirely disproven! However, the REPORT of the child consuming sugar is shown to cause parents to blame any difficulty or trait of the child’s behavior on sugar, even IF the child really did NOT eat sugar, and even if other people think the child’s behavior is perfectly NORMAL! In other words, it was all a self-fulfilling perception of parents, and not any actual truth about sugar. Steve
Response:
I have more questions than answers for you, but perhaps some things to keep in mind. Does she have an established routine during her waking hours?
It is not a regular routine, but for the most part it is a routine. It will vary some, but as far as the daily flow of things yes. Is she on any medication that could supress the regular sleep cycle?
No. no meds at all Have you tried a fan or other soothing noise item in her room? (I’m not a deep sleeper at all and neither is my daughter)
We have not tried a lot yet, we are just trying to get started looking for ways to help. I am going to try some soothing noise. Thanks for that suggestion. What kind of diet does she have?
That is one thing that we are pretty controlled about. None of my children eat lots of sweets or ANY caffeine at all. They do not get candies of any kind except on special occasions. We give them milk and fruit juices like OJ, etc. We avoid artifical colors and flavors as much as possible as well. Her diet at this point is as controlled as we can manage affordable with time and money. Even in small amount she may be super sensitive to sugars or caffeine or even spicy foods. How long between her last meal and bedtime?
This depends on when we get her to bed, but we usually eat around 7pm Does she get a warm bath before bed? (trying thowing some chamoile flowers directly in the tub).
Have not tried this, but will include that in my listof things to try. Does she breath properly at night? (I would seriously check this while she is sleeping, because she may be forgetting to breath and waking herself up, in which case you are dealing with a treatable sleeping disorder). Does she have the necessary communication skills to learn from you how to deep breathe to help calm herself down?
She can communicate very well. The Ped did ask me to watch her breathing patterns at night when she is sleeping. I have not yet seen any irregularities that make me think there is a problem there. But I will continue to monitor that. Finally, if your pediatrician didn’t ask these questions of you, then you need a new
doctor. LOL Agreed, but Ped has been very thorough, I did leave a lot of detail out of my post, that now I see generated more questions. Good luck, Sedona Mommy to Kai (10) and Tori (2)
Thanks so much for your suggestions. Nique
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for some help with my 3 year old. After much discussion with our Ped. we have determined that many of her behavior issues (long story for another post), are related to her erratic sleep patterns. She is a super active three year old. We have a difficult time getting her to settle down and go to sleep at night. It is sometimes 11:00p or later before we can even get her to lay down quietly. She has all but given up her daytime naps as well. Then many nights she does not sleep straight through and then is usually up as early as 6:30 or 7:00. This is contributing to lots of behavior issues with her. Normally I would not be concerned, but it is clear when you deal with her, that she is frustrated as well. You can see that she cannot get control of her own behavior even when she wants to. She gets frustrated easily with simple tasks and then we end up with "toddler meltdown". I hate seeing her end up in a crying fit because she cannot get her shirt over her head without help. Even when you try to calm her and let her know it is OK, it is clear that she is struggling. The Ped has indicated that the lack of sleep is contributing to this. OK now after that long discussion, here is my dilemma. How do I go about modifying her sleep patterns? She is so strong willed that she is not going to simply lay down because we request that she do so. We have tried laying down with her and getting her to sleep with us, I am not sure what else to try here to help her get more sleep. It usually takes her just physically exhausting herself to the point of meltdown before she will lie down. I really want to find something positive here to try to help her. Thanks for suggestions in advance, Nique
I have more questions than answers for you, but perhaps some things to keep in mind. Does she have an established routine during her waking hours? Is she on any medication that could supress the regular sleep cycle? Have you tried a fan or other soothing noise item in her room? (I’m not a deep sleeper at all and neither is my daughter) What kind of diet does she have? Even in small amount she may be super sensitive to sugars or caffeine or even spicy foods. How long between her last meal and bedtime? Does she get a warm bath before bed? (trying thowing some chamoile flowers directly in the tub). Does she breath properly at night? (I would seriously check this while she is sleeping, because she may be forgetting to breath and waking herself up, in which case you are dealing with a treatable sleeping disorder). Does she have the necessary communication skills to learn from you how to deep breathe to help calm herself down? Finally, if your pediatrician didn’t ask these questions of you, then you need a new doctor. Good luck, Sedona Mommy to Kai (10) and Tori (2)
Response:
I am looking for some help with my 3 year old. After much discussion with our Ped. we have determined that many of her behavior issues (long story for another post), are related to her erratic sleep patterns. She is a super active three year old. We have a difficult time getting her to settle down and go to sleep at night. It is sometimes 11:00p or later before we can even get her to lay down quietly. She has all but given up her daytime naps as well. Then many nights she does not sleep straight through and then is usually up as early as 6:30 or 7:00. This is contributing to lots of behavior issues with her. Normally I would not be concerned, but it is clear when you deal with her, that she is frustrated as well. You can see that she cannot get control of her own behavior even when she wants to. She gets frustrated easily with simple tasks and then we end up with "toddler meltdown". I hate seeing her end up in a crying fit because she cannot get her shirt over her head without help. Even when you try to calm her and let her know it is OK, it is clear that she is struggling. The Ped has indicated that the lack of sleep is contributing to this. OK now after that long discussion, here is my dilemma. How do I go about modifying her sleep patterns? She is so strong willed that she is not going to simply lay down because we request that she do so. We have tried laying down with her and getting her to sleep with us, I am not sure what else to try here to help her get more sleep. It usually takes her just physically exhausting herself to the point of meltdown before she will lie down. I really want to find something positive here to try to help her. Thanks for suggestions in advance, Nique
