Question:
Hang in there, bud. My wife had to fight the good fight with migraines…but she eventually won out over the FAA. It can happen for you, too. — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Warrior N33431
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Forget the airspace lock-down of the last week — I just got screwed by the FAA medical staff! I was supposed to take my check-ride this past Tuesday, obviously I couldn’t. Now it looks like I never will! I used to take something to help me fall asleep faster ( 1/2 mg of Klonopin ) because of stress on the job. Of course, being the honest guy that I am, I mentioned it to the AME. He gave me my 3rd class medical on April 18. Since then I’ve sunk $5,000+ and 48 hours to qualify for the check-ride. TODAY, 5 months LATER, the FAA sends a certified letter saying Klonopin, and perhaps this so called sleeping disorder of mine, is/are disqualifying conditions for ANY medical! Can you understand how badly I want to hit something right now! I don’t even take the shit anymore. Even if I did, this is the world’s mildest drug given to millions of Americans who are too stressed to fall asleep. What burns my but is that it took them 5 F****** months and $5,000 of money I can barely afford (I mentioned "old" job, they laid my ass off 3 months ago) to tell me. This is not right! This is the shit I heard about and saw happening when I visited Russia. Oh, they also seem to have a problem with a benign tumor removed 5 years ago. They didn’t say it was disqualifying, but the want "summary narrative and pathology reports". What’s that? I’ll be burning the wire to AOPA on Monday but I had to vent. Any support from those who have fought this kind of thing and won would be appreciated. I had hopes of getting my commercial and CFI — I don’t want to fly for the big boys I just want to pass on this life long love of flying, a dream I was finally starting to fulfill! — regards, Chuck
Response:
Forget the airspace lock-down of the last week — I just got screwed by the FAA medical staff! I was supposed to take my check-ride this past Tuesday, obviously I couldn’t. Now it looks like I never will! I used to take something to help me fall asleep faster ( 1/2 mg of Klonopin ) because of stress on the job. Of course, being the honest guy that I am, I mentioned it to the AME. He gave me my 3rd class medical on April 18. Since then I’ve sunk $5,000+ and 48 hours to qualify for the check-ride. TODAY, 5 months LATER, the FAA sends a certified letter saying Klonopin, and perhaps this so called sleeping disorder of mine, is/are disqualifying conditions for ANY medical!
Hi Chuck, From personal experience I sympathize with you. I’m sure you will hear from many other pilots in similar circumstances. Don’t give up. It may take months, but this letter from the FAA is not the final word. I did a Google search on "faa medical Klonopin". On http://cvg.natca.net/medicine.htm (A National Air Traffic Controller website) I found a reference to Klonopin as one of a class of drugs used as an -anticonvulsant- "Neurologic Drugs: Medications used as anticonvulsants (e.g., phenytoin [Dilantin], divalproex [Depakote], gabapentin [Neurontin], and clonazepam [Klonopin]) are not acceptable". Perhaps they suspect you of having a seizure disorder rather than a past sleeping problem. In any event, read the FAA FAQ here: http://www.cami.jccbi.gov/aam-300/amcdfaq.html and start your appeal process. AOPA will be a great help to you. Good luck! Rick
Response:
The AME made a mistake. He never should have issued the medical if you disclose that you took Klonopin. It doesn’t mean you can’t have a flight medical… it just means that you can’t take the medication and you also need supporting medical evidence that you are OK without it. Klonopin is not a harmless medication. It is mood altering and "dulls the senses." It is also addictive. The situation stinks… because the system failed you to this point… but you should be able to get approved if you can do it without Klonopin. Aviationmedicine.com are a great bunch of knowledgeable AME’s. I think you probably just need an AME who is willing to do a little extra work to jump thru the hoops you need to get approved. Bob Borucki, MD, S-AME, HIMS, Commercial ME-I
Response:
We all sympathize with you on this issue Chuck. All of us have or will face the possibility of losing our medical certificates. Contacting the AOPA seems like a step in the right direction. Also try this web site: www.aviationmedicine.com . It might cost a few more dollars but if anyone can help you, they should be able to. Please understand though that the FAA tends to see a lot of these matters as cut and dried using manuals that were written by FAA lawyers to tell them where to draw the line. In other words they look in their little book and if Klonopin is listed as "disqualifying", then that’s what they’ll tell you. The trick is getting them to issue the waiver. Good luck. We all hope you succeed in getting a waiver to continue flying. PD – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Forget the airspace lock-down of the last week — I just got screwed by the FAA medical staff! I was supposed to take my check-ride this past Tuesday, obviously I couldn’t. Now it looks like I never will! I used to take something to help me fall asleep faster ( 1/2 mg of Klonopin ) because of stress on the job. Of course, being the honest guy that I am, I mentioned it to the AME. He gave me my 3rd class medical on April 18. Since then I’ve sunk $5,000+ and 48 hours to qualify for the check-ride. TODAY, 5 months LATER, the FAA sends a certified letter saying Klonopin, and perhaps this so called sleeping disorder of mine, is/are disqualifying conditions for ANY medical! Can you understand how badly I want to hit something right now! I don’t even take the shit anymore. Even if I did, this is the world’s mildest drug given to millions of Americans who are too stressed to fall asleep. What burns my but is that it took them 5 F****** months and $5,000 of money I can barely afford (I mentioned "old" job, they laid my ass off 3 months ago) to tell me. This is not right! This is the shit I heard about and saw happening when I visited Russia. Oh, they also seem to have a problem with a benign tumor removed 5 years ago. They didn’t say it was disqualifying, but the want "summary narrative and pathology reports". What’s that? I’ll be burning the wire to AOPA on Monday but I had to vent. Any support from those who have fought this kind of thing and won would be appreciated. I had hopes of getting my commercial and CFI — I don’t want to fly for the big boys I just want to pass on this life long love of flying, a dream I was finally starting to fulfill! — regards, Chuck Try getting info from the AOPA, if that dosen’t work, taking them to court does. Mark D. Jones CFII
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi, Forget the airspace lock-down of the last week — I just got screwed by the FAA medical staff! I was supposed to take my check-ride this past Tuesday, obviously I couldn’t. Now it looks like I never will! I used to take something to help me fall asleep faster ( 1/2 mg of Klonopin ) because of stress on the job. Of course, being the honest guy that I am, I mentioned it to the AME. He gave me my 3rd class medical on April 18. Since then I’ve sunk $5,000+ and 48 hours to qualify for the check-ride. TODAY, 5 months LATER, the FAA sends a certified letter saying Klonopin, and perhaps this so called sleeping disorder of mine, is/are disqualifying conditions for ANY medical! Can you understand how badly I want to hit something right now! I don’t even take the shit anymore. Even if I did, this is the world’s mildest drug given to millions of Americans who are too stressed to fall asleep. What burns my but is that it took them 5 F****** months and $5,000 of money I can barely afford (I mentioned "old" job, they laid my ass off 3 months ago) to tell me. This is not right! This is the shit I heard about and saw happening when I visited Russia. Oh, they also seem to have a problem with a benign tumor removed 5 years ago. They didn’t say it was disqualifying, but the want "summary narrative and pathology reports". What’s that? I’ll be burning the wire to AOPA on Monday but I had to vent. Any support from those who have fought this kind of thing and won would be appreciated. I had hopes of getting my commercial and CFI — I don’t want to fly for the big boys I just want to pass on this life long love of flying, a dream I was finally starting to fulfill! — regards, Chuck
Try getting info from the AOPA, if that dosen’t work, taking them to court does. Mark D. Jones CFII
Response:
Rick, Klonopin (clonazepam) is an analogue to Valium (diazepam)… It is used for many things, including sleep disorders, stress, seizure disorders, obsessive-compulsive disorders, aggression, etc… Annoy your Doc enough and you too can be put on it… Chuck is in a tough situation… Once the feds find out something about you, their computer never forgets… "Don’t ask, don’t tell", is the best policy right from the outset, and the thing that I tell anyone who solicits my advise… Denny
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Forget the airspace lock-down of the last week — I just got screwed by the FAA medical staff! I was supposed to take my check-ride this past Tuesday, obviously I couldn’t. Now it looks like I never will! I used to take something to help me fall asleep faster ( 1/2 mg of Klonopin ) because of stress on the job. Of course, being the honest guy that I am, I mentioned it to the AME. He gave me my 3rd class medical on April 18. Since then I’ve sunk $5,000+ and 48 hours to qualify for the check-ride. TODAY, 5 months LATER, the FAA sends a certified letter saying Klonopin, and perhaps this so called sleeping disorder of mine, is/are disqualifying conditions for ANY medical! Hi Chuck, From personal experience I sympathize with you. I’m sure you will hear from many other pilots in similar circumstances. Don’t give up. It may take months, but this letter from the FAA is not the final word. I did a Google search on "faa medical Klonopin". On http://cvg.natca.net/medicine.htm (A National Air Traffic Controller website) I found a reference to Klonopin as one of a class of drugs used as an -anticonvulsant- "Neurologic Drugs: Medications used as anticonvulsants (e.g., phenytoin [Dilantin], divalproex [Depakote], gabapentin [Neurontin], and clonazepam [Klonopin]) are not acceptable". Perhaps they suspect you of having a seizure disorder rather than a past sleeping problem. In any event, read the FAA FAQ here: http://www.cami.jccbi.gov/aam-300/amcdfaq.html and start your appeal process. AOPA will be a great help to you. Good luck! Rick
Response:
Lets take the easier one first. The tumor us no problem. If you’ve been there, you know that is not really true. 
Okay… let me be more precise. The *ex-tumor* should be no problem. It was years ago he says, it was benign, and there is no further problems. Under these circumstances, and given what he quoted from the FAA notification, I would suspect that it would take no more than a single letter from his oncologist or current doctor with a paragraph giving latest blood test results and stating the appropriate platitudes. Yes, I jumped through a lot more hoops… but that was for a malignant tumor, with sugery and over a year of chemo, and a medical right after the chemo ended. Still, I got my medical with no problems (well, except for a paperwork hassle). Went in early, got the right initial paperwork together, and the medical was issued on the spot. Then a month later came the totally expected request for a few pounds of documents – sent them in. [Note, this did NOT invalidate my medical - just said that they reserved the right to do so if they didn't like my paperwork.] A few months later got a letter saying "Okay, but tell us if the cancer comes back." Had *no* interruption in my valid medical during any of this time. But you are right – running around town getting copies of medical records from hospitals and surgeons, etc. was a pain. jmk James M. Knox TriSoft ph 512-385-0316 1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
Response:
Hi,
Thanks for replying Jim, you are in the position to know this stuff and it really helps. The guide to aviation medical examiners states that the "use of psychotropic drugs is considered disqualifying. This includes all sedatives, tranquilizers, etc" Did you state on your 8700 the reasons you initially took the drug and how long you have been off?
What I wrote and what I said are not the same things. I do not have a copy of 8700 so I don’t know if I filled one out. I have a copy of 8500 were I stated in section 17 current medications was "Klonopin 1mg for sleep". What I said to the Doc as we went over it was that it was on an "as needed" basis. This level was lowered to 1/2mg as I reduced the stress in other ways, still only as needed to get a good nights rest; and haven’t needed it in months. This really needs to be explained to me. A good nights rest makes for a better pilot. if 8 hours bottle to throttle is expectable, surely 8 hours after taking 1/2 mg of something as mild as Klonopin should be. you write down the nature and location of the tumor on your application?
In the Explanations section I gave more information for check box U Admissions to Hospital: "For day surgery on knee and tumor removal from neck". I was asked about the tumor and explain clearly it was a salvitory gland and was over 5 years ago. Good luck.
Thanks, I’ll need it. The knowledge and power are not on my side.
Response:
The guide to aviation medical examiners states that the "use of psychotropic drugs is considered disqualifying. This includes all sedatives, tranquilizers, etc" Did you state on your 8700 the reasons you initially took the drug and how long you have been off? Also, just because your tumor was benign doesn’t mean much- for example you can get a benign brain tumor that could leave you incapacitated. Did you write down the nature and location of the tumor on your application? It sound like with some documentation from your physicians your problems could be solved quite easily. Good luck. Jim N. MD, AME
Response:
Check out this site, I found them very helpful: http://www.aviationmedicine.com/
Response:
My general impression is that the FAA is much less concerned with medical problems than it is with the drugs used to treat them. You might try writing your Congressman. Sad to say, that often gets any bureaucracy moving in the direction of the complaining citizen. (The Congressman really won’t do anything; he’ll just pass your letter along with an inquiry. Often that’s all that’s needed.) You can think about building an ultralight, or praying that the the sport-pilot license will come into existence. It’s valid up to a J-3 Cub at least, and I find that very satisfactory. AOPA Pilot had an article about a German trike training plane for $120,000 that looked very appealing; it began as a kitplane but now is imported and meets FAA requirements. Perhaps the existence of the sport-pilot certificate will create a market for ready-built aircraft in the 1200-lb range. In the meantime, expand your horizons with an instructor. Regard yourself as the salvation of your local FBO, which has taken a huge financial hit in the past few weeks. see the Warbird’s Forum at http://danford.net and message board at http://forums.delphi.com/annals/start/
Response:
Note: I am not a lawyer, no do I play one on TV. Did the letter from the FAA actually REVOKE your medical, or just say that They were strangely careful in their wording. My CFI even thinks they have made the realization that the AME never should have given me the medical to begin with. The letter says, "We invite your attention to the provision of Section 61.53 of the FARs and caution you that in view of this finding of disqualification,
So your medical certificate is disqualified, or is it? the exercise of the privileges of your <pilot certificate may constitute a violation of that section of the regulations.
i.e. you can still excercise the rights granted by your -pilots- certificate under section B of 61.53: (b) Operations not requiring a medical certificate. A person is not required to hold a medical certificate: (1) When exercising the privileges of a pilot certificate with a glider category rating; (2) When exercising the privileges of a pilot certificate with a balloon class rating; (3) When exercising the privileges of a student pilot certificate while seeking a pilot certificate with a glider category rating or balloon class rating; (4) When exercising the privileges of a flight instructor certificate with a glider category rating; (5) When exercising the privileges of a flight instructor certificate if the person is not acting as pilot in command or serving as a required pilot flight crewmember; (6) When exercising the privileges of a ground instructor certificate; (7) When serving as an examiner or check airman during the administration of a test or check for a certificate, rating, or authorization conducted in a flight simulator or flight training device; or (8) When taking a test or check for a certificate, rating, or authorization conducted in a flight simulator or flight training device. Although this letter does not constitute, nor should it be construed as an order or demand for the return of your medical certificate, you may wish to voluntarily surrender it for cancellation. … If you do not return your medical certificate and any previously issued unexpired medical certificates, your file will be sent to our regional office for consideration of legal enforcement action."
You may find this web site enlightening: http://www.calpilots.org/cpanew/billofri.htm Quote: * RIGHT TO MEDICAL CERTIFICATE The right to fly is conditioned on a pilot’s meeting certain medical standards established by the FAA. A pilot meeting these standards has a right to a certificate evidencing these qualifications. FAA may question a pilot’s qualifications to hold a certificate. This may be during examination by an FAA designated Airman Medical Examiner, or later after a certificate has been issued. The time at which the question of disqualification arises may be significant for purposes of procedure. If it arises when an application is made to a local AME and before a certificate is issued, the burden is on the pilot to show the he/she meets the FAA’s medical standards. If it arises after a certificate has been approved by the medical branch in Oklahoma City, the FAA has the burden of proving that the pilot no longer meets the medical standards. COMMENT: Readers who are familiar with the much-publicized Bob Hoover case can understand that the medical review procedures do not always work the way they should. Apparently Mr. Hoover was not aware that he could make the FAA prove that he lack qualifications to continue holding a certificate. Instead, he misunderstood as mandatory an informal request from FAA that he voluntarily surrender his medical certificate. Upon discovery of this mistake, his request for return of the certificate was not honored. Unquote. I hope your AOPA dues are paid up Strange to say "may constitute", they are the ones making the rules, they should know if it is or not!
If the website is to believed, it is an attempt to move you from catagory B above back to category A where they have more control of the situation from a legal perspective. What is so wrong about this blanket type of disqualification is that someone who needs Klonopin to sleep (not me at this time), but denies it to him/her self because of the FARs, would be a worse pilot because of it. Who wants a tired irritable pilot flying the heavy iron?!
There must be some effective FAA approved sleep aids. Another good question for the good folk at AOPA should the need ever arise again. Cheers, Rick
Response:
Lets take the easier one first. The tumor us no problem.
Since you’ve been there, you know that’s not "really" true! "are no more at risk of sudden incapacitation than the general population." That last is specific wording. The AOPA can fax/e:mail you the details,
may I’ll be talking to my primary and the ENT or performed the operations on Monday; after talking to AOPA. Thanks for the heads up. Did the letter from the FAA actually REVOKE your medical, or just say that
They were strangely careful in their wording. My CFI even thinks they have made the realization that the AME never should have given me the medical to begin with. The letter says, "We invite your attention to the provision of Section 61.53 of the FARs and caution you that in view of this finding of disqualification, the exercise of the privileges of your certificate may constitute a violation of that section of the regulations. Although this letter does not constitute, nor should it be construed as an order or demand for the return of your medical certificate, you may wish to voluntarily surrender it for cancellation. … If you do not return your medical certificate and any previously issued unexpired medical certificates, your file will be sent to our regional office for consideration of legal enforcement action." Strange to say "may constitute", they are the ones making the rules, they should know if it is or not! What is so wrong about this blanket type of disqualification is that someone who needs Klonopin to sleep (not me at this time), but denies it to him/her self because of the FARs, would be a worse pilot because of it. Who wants a tired irritable pilot flying the heavy iron?!
Response:
When was the last time you used Klonopin?
Sometime in June, though I refilled the prescription just before loosing my medical coverage just in case.
Response:
Lets take the easier one first. The tumor us no problem.
If you’ve been there, you know that is not really true. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -What they want is basically a couple of test numbers (probably a DSE) and a 1-paragraph statement from your oncologist that says you suffer no residual effects and "are no more at risk of sudden incapacitation than the general population." That last is specific wording. The AOPA can fax/e:mail you the details, may also be on their medical section of their web site.. Trust me… been there, have to do that every year. The other problem will be a little bigger hassle, but not much more than that. The drug triggered their red-flag machinery because, while it is mild in itself, it is sometimes used to treat disorders that are themselves disqualifying. You will need another letter. Again, AOPA can give you the details. Did the letter from the FAA actually REVOKE your medical, or just say that they wanted more info. Big difference. If the latter, then you are still good until they say otherwise. If the former, then you need to try to get on their fast-track program to get it re-instated pending any more detailed review. It’s a pain, but it shouldn’t stop you. jmk James M. Knox TriSoft ph 512-385-0316 1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
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*snip* When was the last time you used Klonopin?
Response:
I’ll be burning the wire to AOPA on Monday but I had to vent. Any support from those who have fought this kind of thing and won would be appreciated.
Lets take the easier one first. The tumor us no problem. What they want is basically a couple of test numbers (probably a DSE) and a 1-paragraph statement from your oncologist that says you suffer no residual effects and "are no more at risk of sudden incapacitation than the general population." That last is specific wording. The AOPA can fax/e:mail you the details, may also be on their medical section of their web site.. Trust me… been there, have to do that every year. The other problem will be a little bigger hassle, but not much more than that. The drug triggered their red-flag machinery because, while it is mild in itself, it is sometimes used to treat disorders that are themselves disqualifying. You will need another letter. Again, AOPA can give you the details. Did the letter from the FAA actually REVOKE your medical, or just say that they wanted more info. Big difference. If the latter, then you are still good until they say otherwise. If the former, then you need to try to get on their fast-track program to get it re-instated pending any more detailed review. It’s a pain, but it shouldn’t stop you. jmk James M. Knox TriSoft ph 512-385-0316 1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
Response:
Hi, Forget the airspace lock-down of the last week — I just got screwed by the FAA medical staff! I was supposed to take my check-ride this past Tuesday, obviously I couldn’t. Now it looks like I never will! I used to take something to help me fall asleep faster ( 1/2 mg of Klonopin ) because of stress on the job. Of course, being the honest guy that I am, I mentioned it to the AME. He gave me my 3rd class medical on April 18. Since then I’ve sunk $5,000+ and 48 hours to qualify for the check-ride. TODAY, 5 months LATER, the FAA sends a certified letter saying Klonopin, and perhaps this so called sleeping disorder of mine, is/are disqualifying conditions for ANY medical! Can you understand how badly I want to hit something right now! I don’t even take the shit anymore. Even if I did, this is the world’s mildest drug given to millions of Americans who are too stressed to fall asleep. What burns my but is that it took them 5 F****** months and $5,000 of money I can barely afford (I mentioned "old" job, they laid my ass off 3 months ago) to tell me. This is not right! This is the shit I heard about and saw happening when I visited Russia. Oh, they also seem to have a problem with a benign tumor removed 5 years ago. They didn’t say it was disqualifying, but the want "summary narrative and pathology reports". What’s that? I’ll be burning the wire to AOPA on Monday but I had to vent. Any support from those who have fought this kind of thing and won would be appreciated. I had hopes of getting my commercial and CFI — I don’t want to fly for the big boys I just want to pass on this life long love of flying, a dream I was finally starting to fulfill! — regards, Chuck
Response:
) Why do you consider changing meds now? The holiday season is *soon*. If you feel Celexa doesn’t work properly you might consider adding one of those lovely benzos… the advantage of adding a benzo over switching AD’s is that its effect will be felt quicker. But you should ask a *doctor*, I mean a *good* one like ..er….what’shisname….um…Mar.something or other 
(( it walks hand in hand with the feeling of meaningless – two of the emotional states I fear the most… {{{{{TM}}}}} I hope you can sleep ok. Sometimes a good night’s sleep is the key. 