Busted class Bravo?
Question:
Yo, I flew out of PDK (Atlanta, GA) last week. This airport rests under the outer Bravo space and just north of ATL’s inner Bravo space. Upon contact with PDK clearance, I was asked if I would like flight following. I gave an affirmative and was give a squawk. So I’m flying out from PDK in the direction of Atlanta’s Bravo boundary and PDK came on and said "Cherokee 9402J squawk VFR radar services terminated." Well, I was sorta surprised since I thought I’d be handed off to Atlanta approach or Center for continued following. I rogered their termination and scrambled for my AF/D to look up ATL’s frequency (yeah, I should have already had that written down, I know). I determined that I probably would not find it in time to avoid ATL’s Bravo space and called PDK back up to ask them to pass the frequency along to me. They did and ATL approach granted it. I was damn close to busting class B at this point and changed heading to avoid it. Had I been distracted another few seconds, I damn sure would have busted it. Heck, I may have actually brushed the boundary. But when I finally got in contact with ATL (and the FAA hasn’t called), they didn’t say anything so I rectum I’m safe. It was a very tense moment, though. I saw my pilot certificate’s life flash before my eyes, I swear. Anyway, my question is, when PDK asked if I wanted flight following, was I wrong to assume they would pass me along to Approach when I left their jurisdiction? Up until now, I assumed that when you get flight following and a discrete code, you automatically get passed along for your entire route unless ATC is unable. Either way, I’ll damn sure never make that assumption again. Just want a little clarification. Jim Fisher North Alabama Cherokee 180
Response:
My understanding, Jim, is that flight following can be terminated at any time. This has happened to me numerous times around the country, so I know it’s fairly standard practice to hand you off only if it is workload permitting or they don’t have an emergency or something like that. Most likely, the PDK tower wasn’t able to hand you off to ATL Approach in the background, so they were forced to terminate your flight following. The best thing to do is to get a class B clearance, not flight following, prior to leaving the ground. If you get the clearance, then they cannot terminate you, because it has been handed off to ATL Approach in the background before you even leave the ground. If you decide to get a VFR flight following clearance, though, be prepared for this type of stuff. The two most important things you’ve learned here, in my opinion, is 1) they can terminate flight following ANY time, even at the most inconvenient time, and if they do, 2) be sure to ask for whom to contact and their frequency. They know exactly who to contact if you want to initiate another flight following, so don’t be shy — ask! You probably wouldn’t hear a thing from the FAA if you went into class B airspace momentarily. They allow for weird situations like what happened to you. The controller probably saw your flight following squawk code changing to 1200 and was wondering when you were going to turn away while keeping an eye on lots of other aircraft. In Orlando I operate under a class B shelf that starts at 1,600′. Usually we climb to 1,400′ and sail away until we can climb higher. When I was a student pilot, I was with my CFI and I momentarily let it get to 1,650′. He pointed this out and I pointed the nose down quickly. He said that they allow for this kind of stuff because of drafts. I never busted class B again! Simon Ramirez – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyway, my question is, when PDK asked if I wanted flight following, was I wrong to assume they would pass me along to Approach when I left their jurisdiction? Up until now, I assumed that when you get flight following and a discrete code, you automatically get passed along for your entire route unless ATC is unable. Either way, I’ll damn sure never make that assumption again. Just want a little clarification. Jim Fisher North Alabama Cherokee 180
Response:
Sounds like you handled it well. I rectum I’m safe? That’s some good comedy there. Kelly
finally got in contact with ATL (and the FAA hasn’t called), they didn’t say – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – anything so I rectum I’m safe. It was a very tense moment, though. I saw my pilot certificate’s life flash before my eyes, I swear.
Response:
Well, I was sorta surprised since I thought I’d be handed off to Atlanta approach or Center for continued following. I rogered their termination and scrambled for my AF/D to look up ATL’s frequency (yeah, I should have already had that written down, I know). I determined that I probably would not find it in time to avoid ATL’s Bravo space and called PDK back up to ask them to pass the frequency along to me. They did and ATL approach granted it. I was damn close to busting class B at this point and changed heading to avoid it.
You were never cleared into the B. This should have been the overriding concern at this point.
Response:
You can be terminated at any time unless you have already entered an area requiring radar services…If terminated without a handoff and the controller hasn’t offered a frequency(which has been my experience), ask for one…Fly safe… Blue skies, Stephen Ames CP-ASMEL-IA MEI, CFII, CFI My flying site: http://www.stephenames.com/flying/flying.html
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yo, I flew out of PDK (Atlanta, GA) last week. This airport rests under the outer Bravo space and just north of ATL’s inner Bravo space. Upon contact with PDK clearance, I was asked if I would like flight following. I gave an affirmative and was give a squawk. So I’m flying out from PDK in the direction of Atlanta’s Bravo boundary and PDK came on and said "Cherokee 9402J squawk VFR radar services terminated." Well, I was sorta surprised since I thought I’d be handed off to Atlanta approach or Center for continued following. I rogered their termination and scrambled for my AF/D to look up ATL’s frequency (yeah, I should have already had that written down, I know). I determined that I probably would not find it in time to avoid ATL’s Bravo space and called PDK back up to ask them to pass the frequency along to me. They did and ATL approach granted it. I was damn close to busting class B at this point and changed heading to avoid it. Had I been distracted another few seconds, I damn sure would have busted it. Heck, I may have actually brushed the boundary. But when I finally got in contact with ATL (and the FAA hasn’t called), they didn’t say anything so I rectum I’m safe. It was a very tense moment, though. I saw my pilot certificate’s life flash before my eyes, I swear. Anyway, my question is, when PDK asked if I wanted flight following, was I wrong to assume they would pass me along to Approach when I left their jurisdiction? Up until now, I assumed that when you get flight following and a discrete code, you automatically get passed along for your entire route unless ATC is unable. Either way, I’ll damn sure never make that assumption again. Just want a little clarification. Jim Fisher North Alabama Cherokee 180
Response:
I rogered their termination and scrambled for my AF/D to look up ATL’s frequency (yeah, I should have already had that written down, I know). I determined that I probably would not find it in time to avoid ATL’s Bravo space and called PDK back up to ask them to pass the frequency along to me.
Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. In that order. If you thought you would not find the right frequency in time, you should have turned away, or descended, or whatever was appropriate to keep you out of the CBAS. THEN, you should have called PDK. Up until now, I assumed that when you get flight following and a discrete code, you automatically get passed along for your entire route unless ATC is unable.
That is indeed generally the case. Maybe PDK tried to get you a handoff to the Class Bravo controller and was unable. Not enough information given to tell. But while that might have been unexpected, it still doesn’t relieve you from the responsibility to stay outside the CBAS until cleared, and talking on the radio should have been your lowest priority. — Roy Smith, CFI-ASE-IA
Response:
Jim… If you know you want to go through the class "B", ask clearance delivery for the handoff… By simply asking for flight following, they may or may not work the handoff… You still might not get it anyway, but at least this way, they have a clearer idea of what you want… John Price CFI/AGI – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yo, I flew out of PDK (Atlanta, GA) last week. This airport rests under the outer Bravo space and just north of ATL’s inner Bravo space. Upon contact with PDK clearance, I was asked if I would like flight following. I gave an affirmative and was give a squawk. So I’m flying out from PDK in the direction of Atlanta’s Bravo boundary and PDK came on and said "Cherokee 9402J squawk VFR radar services terminated." Well, I was sorta surprised since I thought I’d be handed off to Atlanta approach or Center for continued following. I rogered their termination and scrambled for my AF/D to look up ATL’s frequency (yeah, I should have already had that written down, I know). I determined that I probably would not find it in time to avoid ATL’s Bravo space and called PDK back up to ask them to pass the frequency along to me. They did and ATL approach granted it. I was damn close to busting class B at this point and changed heading to avoid it. Had I been distracted another few seconds, I damn sure would have busted it. Heck, I may have actually brushed the boundary. But when I finally got in contact with ATL (and the FAA hasn’t called), they didn’t say anything so I rectum I’m safe. It was a very tense moment, though. I saw my pilot certificate’s life flash before my eyes, I swear. Anyway, my question is, when PDK asked if I wanted flight following, was I wrong to assume they would pass me along to Approach when I left their jurisdiction? Up until now, I assumed that when you get flight following and a discrete code, you automatically get passed along for your entire route unless ATC is unable. Either way, I’ll damn sure never make that assumption again. Just want a little clarification. Jim Fisher North Alabama Cherokee 180
Response:
[snip] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Upon contact with PDK clearance, I was asked if I would like flight following. I gave an affirmative and was give a squawk. So I’m flying out from PDK in the direction of Atlanta’s Bravo boundary and PDK came on and said "Cherokee 9402J squawk VFR radar services terminated." Well, I was sorta surprised since I thought I’d be handed off to Atlanta approach or Center for continued following. I rogered their termination and scrambled for my AF/D to look up ATL’s frequency (yeah, I should have already had that written down, I know). I determined that I probably would not find it in time to avoid ATL’s Bravo space and called PDK back up to ask them to pass the frequency along to me. They did and ATL approach granted it.
Good situational awareness on your part to dodge the bullet. A class Bravo violation would have been easy to do if you’d spent a lot of time hunting for the freq. and trying to get a word in edgewise with approach. That was a nifty trap PDK tower set for you. Not intentional, of course, but not very professional, either. I’m puzzled as to why they would ask you if you wanted flight following, give you a code and then terminate you without a word. An Atlanta TRACON mgr. who spoke at Operation Raincheck at ZTL last Saturday said they (TRACON folks) had given PDK tower personnel some additional training recently. Maybe a little more…? Dan
Response:
My flying site: http://www.stephenames.com/flying/flying.html
ARGH!!! My eyes!!! Kill that the rolling footer! –Pete
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snip] Upon contact with PDK clearance, I was asked if I would like flight following. I gave an affirmative and was give a squawk. So I’m flying out from PDK in the direction of Atlanta’s Bravo boundary and PDK came on and said "Cherokee 9402J squawk VFR radar services terminated." Well, I was sorta surprised since I thought I’d be handed off to Atlanta approach or Center for continued following. I rogered their termination and scrambled for my AF/D to look up ATL’s frequency (yeah, I should have already had that written down, I know). I determined that I probably would not find it in time to avoid ATL’s Bravo space and called PDK back up to ask them to pass the frequency along to me. They did and ATL approach granted it.
[...] That was a nifty trap PDK tower set for you. Not intentional, of course, but not very professional, either. I’m puzzled as to why they would ask you if you wanted flight following, give you a code and then terminate you without a word.
Perhaps, because Mr. Fisher did not ask PDK Clearance Delivery for a Class Bravo Clearance, they guessed that his departure course would not require Class Bravo penetration. They then offered Radar Advisory Service, but were forced to cancel it due to being unable to effect a handoff to ATL in time, or because they expect departing flights which intend to transition the ATL Class Bravo airspace to request that from Clearance Delivery. Just a thought. Even though there is a VFR Corridor through the convoluted San Diego Class Bravo airspace, I always request a Class Bravo Departure from Montgomery Clearance Delivery regardless of my direction of flight. It just makes navigation easier and safer.
Response:
SNIP Anyway, my question is, when PDK asked if I wanted flight following, was I wrong to assume they would pass me along to Approach when I left their jurisdiction?
Yes. Up until now, I assumed that when you get flight following and a discrete code, you automatically get passed along for your entire route unless ATC is unable.
No. Entering Class B airspace requires a clearance, even when VFR. You need to hear ATC say the magic words "Cherokee XXXXX is cleared to enter Atlanta Class Bravo airspace…..". If you don’t hear it ask for it. I’ve had the same thing happen with Miami Class B airspace. I was coming back at night VFR from Marathon to Palm Beach and was receiving flight following. It was late at night so I asked for an overflight of Miami International Airport because I thought it would be cool. Miami approach said okay. As I neared Class B airspace I was in a similar situation to yours; I stumbled out, "Miami approach is Arrow XXXXX cleared to enter Class B airspace?" The controller sounded quite surprised and said, "Yes you are, thanks for reminding me." I don’t know about Atlanta but Miami does not typically allow VFR aircraft inside Class B airspace (very very few aircraft land VFR at Miami International). If you ask for clearance into Miami Class B airspace they almost always give you vectors or altitude restrictions that keep you out of Class B. My speculation is that there might not be a lot of familarization amongst the Class B folks with VFR aircraft flying in their bounds. Any thoughts, right or wrong, ATC people??? Regards, Tom Tripp – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Either way, I’ll damn sure never make that assumption again. Just want a little clarification. Jim Fisher North Alabama Cherokee 180
Response:
on my student night cross country outta CDW to HVN, POU and then back, we (with CFI aboard) busted NYC Class Bravo for a few minutes and both were quite oblivious to the fact (even though I was flying 090 instead of planned 070 all the way from departure, and the terrain below is fairly distinct even at night) until we contacted HPN tower asking for to transition their D and were told that we were in the B for about 5 minutes now! Heck, I was a student, didn’t know any better, and by the night time my CFI was probably sleepwalking. There were no repercussions, but it certainly instilled the fear of the holy glass ceiling in me for good. In any case now whenever flying anywhere near or above/below Class B, I find it prudent to keep the appropriate approach sector frequency tuned in and keeping it in the background on "both" just in case a situation develops that calls for contact. HECTOP
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – SNIP Anyway, my question is, when PDK asked if I wanted flight following, was I wrong to assume they would pass me along to Approach when I left their jurisdiction? Yes. Up until now, I assumed that when you get flight following and a discrete code, you automatically get passed along for your entire route unless ATC is unable. No. Entering Class B airspace requires a clearance, even when VFR. You need to hear ATC say the magic words "Cherokee XXXXX is cleared to enter Atlanta Class Bravo airspace…..". If you don’t hear it ask for it. I’ve had the same thing happen with Miami Class B airspace. I was coming back at night VFR from Marathon to Palm Beach and was receiving flight following. It was late at night so I asked for an overflight of Miami International Airport because I thought it would be cool. Miami approach said okay. As I neared Class B airspace I was in a similar situation to yours; I stumbled out, "Miami approach is Arrow XXXXX cleared to enter Class B airspace?" The controller sounded quite surprised and said, "Yes you are, thanks for reminding me." I don’t know about Atlanta but Miami does not typically allow VFR aircraft inside Class B airspace (very very few aircraft land VFR at Miami International). If you ask for clearance into Miami Class B airspace they almost always give you vectors or altitude restrictions that keep you out of Class B. My speculation is that there might not be a lot of familarization amongst the Class B folks with VFR aircraft flying in their bounds. Any thoughts, right or wrong, ATC people??? Regards, Tom Tripp Either way, I’ll damn sure never make that assumption again. Just want a little clarification. Jim Fisher North Alabama Cherokee 180
Response:
Jim; Even if your talking to the proper people, make sure you hear the magic words "cleared into Bravo Space". Last year when going to Oshkosh, I got flight following near Columbus, so I would be "in the system" as I got to Chicago as I wanted to go along the lakeshore going north to Osh. I got the hand off to Chicago approach, told him of my plans and motored along. I started getting close to the edge of the class b ring and had still not heard the magic phrase, but had gotten several traffic alerts. I finally asked if I was cleared into the class b space or not and was told no and what were my plans. I circled and dove to get under the outer ring and then proceeded up the coast under the b space. I know ( now ) that I should not have assumed that because I was talking to the controller and had told him where I was going that he would clear me or tell me no. Now I make sure I hear cleared to enter or ask long before it’s critical. — John Theune " When is Danger or in Doubt, Run in Circles Scream and Shout" R.A.H.
Yo, I flew out of PDK (Atlanta, GA) last week. This airport rests under the outer Bravo space and just north of ATL’s inner Bravo space.
‘ much snipped stuff about class b stuff ‘
Response:
Jim; Even if your talking to the proper people, make sure you hear the magic words "cleared into Bravo Space". <<snip
Here in Houston, I get cleared through the Bravo probably (or, as our Governor and potential President Elect might say, "probobbly") 35%-50% of the time I ask. The big airports get their busy spells, but for big Class B airports we aren’t as busy as some others. There’s another trap nobody ("nobodobody") else has mentioned. You’re cruising along, happy as a clam, suddenly realize that the DME is showing 16.5 nm to the VOR in the center of the Class B, and the Class B starts at 16nm at your altitude, whoops, call up Approach FAST while panicing for clearance. Your response could well be one of the two: (stream of instructions to other traffic then) Cherokee XXX cleared into the Class B (stream of other instructions) -or- (stream of instructions to other traffic then) Cherokee XXX stay clear of the Class B (stream of other instructions) Both have SOME of the magic words : Clear, Class, and B. If that’s all you’re listening for, you might have a bit of a problem later. Listen closely! Chip
Response:
It is wrong to assume anything with ATC when VFR! Especially to assume they will provide continuous flight following. Many smaller approach controls will automatically ask you if you want ff to destination. But few of the larger ones will. One more thing – when you are receiving flight following, you are only getting at-that-instant traffic information. You are NOT in the system. If you go down, it is highly unlikely they will miss you and report it. My son recently made a 2 hour flight with ff all the way and assumed that everything was OK. Unfortunately, he left 4 hours later than he told us, so we started looking for him. A friend at ATC started an "upstream" search to see if anyone had talked to him. No one had ANY records of talking to him (in spite of the fact 4 different ATC’s had by virture of his flight following!) So, when flying VFR, I highly recommend (and, if you are my son, DEMAND) that you file a flight plan with Flight Service, then ask ATC for flight following.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yo, I flew out of PDK (Atlanta, GA) last week. This airport rests under the outer Bravo space and just north of ATL’s inner Bravo space. Upon contact with PDK clearance, I was asked if I would like flight following. I gave an affirmative and was give a squawk. So I’m flying out from PDK in the direction of Atlanta’s Bravo boundary and PDK came on and said "Cherokee 9402J squawk VFR radar services terminated." Well, I was sorta surprised since I thought I’d be handed off to Atlanta approach or Center for continued following. I rogered their termination and scrambled for my AF/D to look up ATL’s frequency (yeah, I should have already had that written down, I know). I determined that I probably would not find it in time to avoid ATL’s Bravo space and called PDK back up to ask them to pass the frequency along to me. They did and ATL approach granted it. I was damn close to busting class B at this point and changed heading to avoid it. Had I been distracted another few seconds, I damn sure would have busted it. Heck, I may have actually brushed the boundary. But when I finally got in contact with ATL (and the FAA hasn’t called), they didn’t say anything so I rectum I’m safe. It was a very tense moment, though. I saw my pilot certificate’s life flash before my eyes, I swear. Anyway, my question is, when PDK asked if I wanted flight following, was I wrong to assume they would pass me along to Approach when I left their jurisdiction? Up until now, I assumed that when you get flight following and a discrete code, you automatically get passed along for your entire route unless ATC is unable. Either way, I’ll damn sure never make that assumption again. Just want a little clarification. Jim Fisher North Alabama Cherokee 180
Response:
One more thing – when you are receiving flight following, you are only getting at-that-instant traffic information. You are NOT in the system. If you go down, it is highly unlikely they will miss you and report it. My son recently made a 2 hour flight with ff all the way and assumed that everything was OK. Unfortunately, he left 4 hours later than he told us, so we started looking for him. A friend at ATC started an "upstream" search to see if anyone had talked to him. No one had ANY records of talking to him (in spite of the fact 4 different ATC’s had by virture of his flight following!)
We periodically get calls from FSS to see if we worked a VFR aircraft through the area. An aircraft that received flight following will have had a flight progress strip made out for it. The strips are retained, we search for the aircraft’s N-number. Now if it’s a rental, you probably wouldn’t know the N-number, and there wouldn’t be any way to search for him.
Response:
On my first solo XC as a student I filed a flight plan before leaving the house. Upon arrival (20 min later) at the field, my plane was gone. I tried to activate my FP airborne, explaining that there was change in the N-number. FSS had a hard time grasping what was going on, but filed a new FP for me (they had activated my plan already, for a different PIC, the CFI that swiped my a/c). They even stated A-B-A (round trip) even though I had only filed A-B. I couldn’t raise them on the ground at my destination but didn’t call as I was going to be airborne again before my round-trip time expired. Bad move. When I got back in the air and switched to FSS, they were calling for me on the freq. (oh the horror, embarassement,etc.). I answered them and gave them my new ETE, no problem. Upon landing I find out that they had called the a/c owner instead of the number on the FP when I went "missing". FSS had done me a round-trip FP, but didn’t bother to double the time! My CFI (dad) had been asked to call the FSS supervisor, who apologized profusely for the mix-up. Errors do happen. Robert Hall ELLX – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is wrong to assume anything with ATC when VFR! Especially to assume they will provide continuous flight following. Many smaller approach controls will automatically ask you if you want ff to destination. But few of the larger ones will. One more thing – when you are receiving flight following, you are only getting at-that-instant traffic information. You are NOT in the system. If you go down, it is highly unlikely they will miss you and report it. My son recently made a 2 hour flight with ff all the way and assumed that everything was OK. Unfortunately, he left 4 hours later than he told us, so we started looking for him. A friend at ATC started an "upstream" search to see if anyone had talked to him. No one had ANY records of talking to him (in spite of the fact 4 different ATC’s had by virture of his flight following!) So, when flying VFR, I highly recommend (and, if you are my son, DEMAND) that you file a flight plan with Flight Service, then ask ATC for flight following. Yo, I flew out of PDK (Atlanta, GA) last week. This airport rests under the outer Bravo space and just north of ATL’s inner Bravo space. Upon contact with PDK clearance, I was asked if I would like flight following. I gave an affirmative and was give a squawk. So I’m flying out from PDK in the direction of Atlanta’s Bravo boundary and PDK came on and said "Cherokee 9402J squawk VFR radar services terminated." Well, I was sorta surprised since I thought I’d be handed off to Atlanta approach or Center for continued following. I rogered their termination and scrambled for my AF/D to look up ATL’s frequency (yeah, I should have already had that written down, I know). I determined that I probably would not find it in time to avoid ATL’s Bravo space and called PDK back up to ask them to pass the frequency along to me. They did and ATL approach granted it. I was damn close to busting class B at this point and changed heading to avoid it. Had I been distracted another few seconds, I damn sure would have busted it. Heck, I may have actually brushed the boundary. But when I finally got in contact with ATL (and the FAA hasn’t called), they didn’t say anything so I rectum I’m safe. It was a very tense moment, though. I saw my pilot certificate’s life flash before my eyes, I swear. Anyway, my question is, when PDK asked if I wanted flight following, was I wrong to assume they would pass me along to Approach when I left their jurisdiction? Up until now, I assumed that when you get flight following and a discrete code, you automatically get passed along for your entire route unless ATC is unable. Either way, I’ll damn sure never make that assumption again. Just want a little clarification. Jim Fisher North Alabama Cherokee 180
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Yo, I flew out of PDK (Atlanta, GA) last week. This airport rests under the outer Bravo space and just north of ATL’s inner Bravo space. Upon contact with PDK clearance, I was asked if I would like flight following. I gave an affirmative and was give a squawk. So I’m flying out from PDK in the direction of Atlanta’s Bravo boundary and PDK came on and said "Cherokee 9402J squawk VFR radar services terminated." Well, I was sorta surprised since I thought I’d be handed off to Atlanta approach or Center for continued following. I rogered their termination and scrambled for my AF/D to look up ATL’s frequency (yeah, I should have already had that written down, I know). I determined that I probably would not find it in time to avoid ATL’s Bravo space and called PDK back up to ask them to pass the frequency along to me. They did and ATL approach granted it. I was damn close to busting class B at this point and changed heading to avoid it. Had I been distracted another few seconds, I damn sure would have busted it. Heck, I may have actually brushed the boundary. But when I finally got in contact with ATL (and the FAA hasn’t called), they didn’t say anything so I rectum I’m safe. It was a very tense moment, though. I saw my pilot certificate’s life flash before my eyes, I swear. Anyway, my question is, when PDK asked if I wanted flight following, was I wrong to assume they would pass me along to Approach when I left their jurisdiction? Up until now, I assumed that when you get flight following and a discrete code, you automatically get passed along for your entire route unless ATC is unable.
Yes, you were wrong to assume that one. I have this happen to me all the time. I live in Lancaster PA (LNS) and fly to Atlantic City Bader (AIY) all the time. Atlantic City has Class "C" airspace, so we’re talking to them departing AIY, now their Radar coverage ends at the boundry of Philadelphia Class "B" airspace. Depending on the mood of Atlantic City’s Controller, you don’t always get a hand-off to Philadelphia, infact most times I’ve discovered you don’t. Atlantic City will wait til you’re about 5 miles from Philly Class "b" and will say "radar service terminated, try philly on 136.45". I fly the trip alot so I know what to expect. But yes, its wrong to assume, infact the lesson learned is to always have the correct freqs onhand and know where to go to stay clear of the Class "B" for if you can’t get the clearance in time. George http://www.Licensed4Fun.com — Do You Enjoy Going To The CASINOS and Winning? Check our web site for the Secrets of the Slots! —– http://www.licensed4fun.com <——
Response:
Jim, Yesterday I flew from Orlando (ORL) to St. Pete (PIE). As I approached the Tampa class B airspace, I called Tampa Control and asked for a class B clearance into PIE. I received one, was vectored to fly directly over Tampa Intl. (TPA) at 2,100 ft. in-line with runway 27, and maintain the heading 270 until further notice. A short while later, I was handed off to the PIE controller, who told me to enter the downwind for 35R. PIE is underneath one of Tampa’s class B shelves, just like PDK is, and almost adjacent to the cylinder that goes to the surface. Upon departure, I called PIE Delivery and asked for a class B clearance to fly VFR to ORL. The lady came back with "cleared to enter class B," squawk blah-blah, fly runway heading until told otherwise, stay below 1,600′, and my departure frequency would be blah-blah. As I’m flying the runway heading and climbing to 1,400′, I was told by PIE Control to switch to blah-blah. When I did, Tampa Control vectored me and told me to fly right over runway 09 at 2,100′. About four miles past the TPA runways, I was told to resume VFR navigation and climb to desired altitude. If I were to fly into PDK, I would use a similar scenario, but I would also be cognizant of the ATL class B just in case they don’t grant me a class B clearance. -Simon Ramirez
