Kids doing Low Carb

Question:

That’s true, usually if they see me eating something they want it. They saw me eating some low carb pizza yesterday, so of course they wanted to try it, and they said they liked it better than the "regular" pizza.  My problem is time.  We don’t usually get home until 6:30, then I have to make dinner, usually they eat while I’m doing something – checking homework, doing laundry, cleaning…whatever.  By then it’s time to get ready for bed pretty much.  I need to get some quick easy things to make, or start making the preparations the day before so I can throw it together quickly the next day, and just….sit down with them for at least dinner time.  I think it would make a huge difference in a lot of ways.

Response:

Thanks  :)  I’ll have to check it out.

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they’re not crazy about eggs. Google this group for "Foofy eggs" http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=xnfzr2s3e3.fs…

Thanks for posting this, DJ.  I had Foofy Eggs for lunch today, and they’re just plain yummy!  Much more pleasant way to consume eggs than plain, scrambled. Carol — 226/209/150 Atkins since 1-26-2003 Type 2 Diabetic since 5-15-2001

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Hi Karen, The vegetable paint idea is pretty cute, I’ll have to try it. It may work with my 5 year old (Zack), he is the one more likely to try new things.  He requested that I buy little carrots the other day, and he loves peas.  My 6 year old on the other hand, will not be so easily persuaded.  I don’t know what happened, he used to try everything, eat everything, and he used to love certain vegetables.  Not anymore – which is probably my fault.  I left their father when Alex (now 6) was 3 years old, moved back in with my mother, got a full time job, started going back to school, and also got a little lazy with cooking – for lack of time.  I’ll see if I can at least make him *try* some new things.  I know he’ll like it if he would just try it – I have a sneaking suspicion that it’s just a front for me, since he admitted eating brocoli at school at their Thanksgiving feast, and when he visits other people’s houses he eats everything they offer.  It’s so cute. They are both really skinny little sprouts, but once a year they go visit my father in Vermont for week in the summer.  When they come back they’re both a little chubby…in a healthy way…because they spend all day outside & come in & eat everything.  And I know there’s no junk food to be found in that house. Thanks for the advice  :) Michelle

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I wish we could find good LC bread here…

I wouldn’t say it’s *good* LC bread <g  It’s that squishy wonder bread like stuff that’s made by Nature’s Own.  They seem to like it though, and they refused to eat the sprouted grain bread that I tried to foist off on them a few weeks ago. My son says that lots of times the kids at his school want to have his lunch instead of his. It’s a good feeling knowing that he’s learning early (he’s9) about his nutrition.

Mine are 9 and 11, and they really don’t seem to care all that much about what they eat.  I have a hard time getting them to eat much at all!! Liz 5′8"  215/178/135 lc started: Jul 9 ‘02 Mar 5lb challenge goal: 174

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Well my daughter couldnt wait to get on the scale today…I really didnt want her to cause you know it may not show up for a few days…But she did it anyway and Lost 1 pound Thank God as for me I gained 3..lol go figure Oh well…She woke up all excited about what we were gonna make for lunch We are leaving for vacation on tuesday and her goal is to lose 3 pounds.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey, I’ve been thinking about it. Definitely not so they can loose weight, it’s more of a health thing. Or learning how to eat healthy. Also, if it helps with their concentration and listening, etc, that would be good…they’re pretty hyper, but then again they’re 5 & 6.  I’ve cut back on their sugar a lot, but I need some ideas with breakfast…they’re not crazy about eggs.  When it snowed last month I tried making them hot chocolate with heavy cream & water, and they hate it.  For the peanut butter, do you use regular, or sugar free? My kids are SO picky…any ideas for getting kids that don’t like vegetables to at least *try* them?  And does anyone know if the Keto macaroni & cheese is any good? *sigh* Thanks, Michelle

My kids (aged 8 & 9) definitely don’t need Low Carb to lose weight…. they expend so much energy that they never gain more than they need to and spend most of their time looking like streched rubber bands already! They do however have a problem with sugars. They were severely lactose intollerant as babies, become hyper from above average levels of any refined sugar, and even fructose sends them nuts (undiluted apple juice can do it!). They also react to artificial colourings (mainly Tartrazine) and caffeine. As a result, they have been restricted pretty much on most carb sources that other kids get, and I have gone as far as not giving them rice, pasta or white bread. However, they do have complex carbohydrates such as oatmeal, multigrain bread and good old Aussie ‘Weet Bix’ (high fibre breakfast cereal). They love the natural peanut butter (that is 100% peanuts). As for fussiness, they’ll eat anything at least once if they see me eat it, and I’ve always loved my vegies so there isn’t a problem with it in our house.

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That sounds wonderful Karen.  I’m happy for your boy!  What a great mom you are And Laurie, hope your daughter goes well on it too!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Laurie.. I put my son on a modified version of low carb after reading articles about it helping behaviour and sleep problems in children. I certainly am not as strict with him as I am myself.. but it sure has been working well with him. My son’s biggest gripe is that his lunch is so much different than the other kids .. ie no puddings, fruit cups, jello cups etc. I found some great no sugar jello cups at our grocery store.. and he loves those. I do hot dogs with cheese  for him, send low carb muffins, cucumber slices or celery with peanut butter or cheez whiz etc. And the other day I found some cookies at the store.. that have only 12g in 4 cookies.. so I ‘ll be picking some of those up for him too. I really dont have that much of a struggle with him.. he is more on a maintenance level of carbs.. and that allows us the freedom of having extras like an apple, occassional orange, or single slice of bread . The change in him is like night and day.. from not listening at all.. to "can i help you mom with anything?" No temper flare ups and he’s hardly ever tired.. and when he does go to sleep.. no more sleepwalking )) His school grades have gone up.. because the teacher said his concentration is way better too. Of course i know all kids are different and they need different nutritional values than grown ups..  but they certainly dont need any more sugar or simple carbs  than we do in my opinion. How is your daughter doing on it? Favorite lunches etc?? biggest gripe or hardest part for her?? I’d love to chat with  you more about it Thanks for posting ~Karen~ Hi…I just wanted to see how many people have there kids doing Low carb also…I have been doing it this time since jan. and my daughter has decided to do it with me. Im really happy she is gonna try it again …This group has really helped me..So I was hopeing to be able to start something for parents with kids doing it to..Giving ideas to eachother to help make it easier for Kids to do this..I know for me Im gonna have fights about what she can eat and Im dreading it. So any help would be great..Thanks..Laurie Oh I know sometimes its hard to follow up and find posts so If u wanna e-mail me that would be fine..Thanks again

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My daughters have grown up knowing Mummy LCs (they were 2 and 3 when I started out, now 8 and 7 as of tomorrow) and to them it’s normal. They don’t *need* to LC (if anything they are a little underweight for their height), but they tend to eat that way, simply because it’s what they see me eating.  So, for school lunches Athena likes to take things like chicken wings (if the weather is not too hot – she has an insulated pack to use for her lunches and I add a water bottle that overnighted in the freezer to make sure it stays cool) and individual packages of cream cheese, and Ishtar likes sausage links or a couple of my puffed-rye crackers (local equivalent to Wasas) with some slices of cheese.  They both take chunks of cantaloupe in a ziplock baggie, carrot sticks, celery sticks and the like.  At their school almost everyone brown-bags so they’re not sticking out from everyone else. Aramanth

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This had been great to see so many people responding to this. Well today was my daughters first full day of LCing and made it threw We packed her lunch together and put in the things she wanted..a hard boiled egg..4 pieces of cheese and peperoni..and a few pieces of lunch meat rolled up….When I picked her up from school and was very excited to tell me that she eat ONLY the stuff  she brought to school..when we got home she was a ilttle hungry waiting for dinner so she had a few slices of peperoni to hold her over…she always drinks alot of water..so that is what i tell her to drink if she thinks she is still hungry and see how she feels after that..My daughter can eat all threw the day just picking at things..I really hope that feeling goes away for her..That is he hardest part and what causees most of our fights. My daughter is 9 yrs old is about 5 feet and started at about 160 pounds… Thanks again for everyones posts..Laurie

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Thank you so much, Karen for the encouragement.  I am indeed bursting at the seams (and not because my clothes are too small <vbg).  I figured that she would have a ruff go sticking to the induction (luckily we did it on spring break for the first week so it helped a lot since I wasn’t preparing high carb meals) but she has been a real champ.  My daughter used to be infatuated about food and now she is changing her attitude towards eating.  She is no longer rushing to have a second helping and only asks in casual conversation what we are having for dinner (she used to be jumping up and down and licking her lips….no kidding!).  Mind you my daughter held her weight good before starting Atkins but she had a pretty round tummy.  She was 112.5 (at 4′6") when she started and is now down to 103.  Her personal goal is 90 which gives her a BMI of 20 (if I remember right).  Currently she is having such a hard time fitting into jeans and it is near impossible to go school shopping for her.  She will be starting middle school next year so I am sure she is anxious to be able to wear all the "in" things.  My biggest hope is that she doesn’t get discouraged when she hits her first stall (or gains a pound or two).  Kids can easily get frustrated.  Shooottt…so can adults:-)… I was in terrible turmoil when I gained 6 pounds last week (luckily it ended up being water weight so I lost that plus another 6 that week). I think she has such a positive attitude about it that I think she will succeed with flying colors (even if she doesn’t loose more weight…she is learning how to take a better attitude about eating right).   Doing Atkins together has brought us closer.  She is truly a special little girl. Beth Q. 389/366/150 Started Atkins 3/22/03 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Beth I think you have every right to be bursting at the seams about your Daughter ) She sounds like a wonderful girl. !! Not many 11 year olds are cooperative enough or care enough to  1) read the book 2) put those things to use in her own life 3) give suggestions to help make it easier. You are both definately doing a wonderful job of making your family a healthier one. And it’s nice to know that she doesnt feel different at all and can share her way of eating with friends that come over. Less sugar never hurts anyone .. especially kids whose lives seem to be bombarded with it commercially . Best of Luck to you and your daughter Let her know that people that havent even met her are Very proud of her also.. me ! ~Karen~

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they’re not crazy about eggs.

Google this group for "Foofy eggs" http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=xnfzr2s3e3.fs…

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Beth I think you have every right to be bursting at the seams about your Daughter ) She sounds like a wonderful girl. !! Not many 11 year olds are cooperative enough or care enough to  1) read the book 2) put those things to use in her own life 3) give suggestions to help make it easier. You are both definately doing a wonderful job of making your family a healthier one. And it’s nice to know that she doesnt feel different at all and can share her way of eating with friends that come over. Less sugar never hurts anyone .. especially kids whose lives seem to be bombarded with it commercially . Best of Luck to you and your daughter Let her know that people that havent even met her are Very proud of her also.. me ! ~Karen~ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Me and my daughter are both doing Atkins.  She is 11 and has/had about 20-25 extra pounds to loose.  I am proud to say that she has lost 9.5 of those extra pounds in 3 1/2 weeks (we started on 3/22/03).  She decides what she wants to eat.  She even took it upon herself to read the induction part of the book and she really understands what she can/can’t eat.  And when she doesn’t know if she can have it she doesn’t eat it and then asks me if it is allowed the next time she has a chance. What we have found that works good for her is that she gets a lunch tray at school and eats what she is "allowed" to have.  Usually it is the meat cheese off a sandwhich (or pizza, etc.) and a veggie/salad cup.  She brings flavored water (crystal light, SF koolaid or Wal-mart brand Clear flavored water) to school with her and also brings an extra bottle full of plain water (that she is allowed to have at her desk).  On days that the school is having something that she can’t have at all (like biscuits and gravy) she brings her lunch. Which usually consists of a large salad (with meat and cheese, etc) or the other day I cooked her a pork chop and broccoli (both she requested).  She hasn’t told everybody that she is LCing but she has told her two closest friends. She doesn’t seem to mind eating "different" than the other kids but on the other hand my daughter isn’t afraid to be different.  I am so proud of her for sticking with this program.  I told her that now that she is done with induction that she could add more carbs (5) and she thought about it and then decided not to…she likes the way/food that she is currently eating and doesn’t feel the need to add more carbs.  She lost 1.5 pounds last week. The other day she had a friend spend the night.  We planned ahead of time about what to eat and have for snacks.  Especially since kids usually love to get together and eat candy and drink sugar soda.  So the girls finally decided on salami, cheese, sunflower seeds and diet coke for snacks and then for dinner I fixed teriyaki chicken and a huge plate of different vegetables.  Both of them were very satisfied and didn’t seem to miss the candy at all. Have I said how proud of her I am:-).  This is certainly getting into a way of eating for us and we BOTH love it.  There are things that we miss having but we can LIVE without them so we do. Beth Q. 389/366/150 Started Atkins 3/22/03 Hi…I just wanted to see how many people have there kids doing Low carb also…I have been doing it this time since jan. and my daughter has decided to do it with me. Im really happy she is gonna try it again …This group has really helped me..So I was hopeing to be able to start something for parents with kids doing it to..Giving ideas to eachother to help make it easier for Kids to do this..I know for me Im gonna have fights about what she can eat and Im dreading it. So any help would be great..Thanks..Laurie Oh I know sometimes its hard to follow up and find posts so If u wanna e-mail me that would be fine..Thanks again

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Hi michelle.. I have a 5 yr old daughter  as well as my 9 year old son. they can have such attitude and energy at that age LOL! I cant help you with the eggs problem.. my kids love them. Some morning though we do give them sliced strawberries with heavy cream and splenda. I also have made up Berry Fluff off the lamsonadventures.com website. It’s great for the kids if you dont mind them having AS. I have totally taken breakfast on a different view. Often now my 5yr old will ask for cheese bites and chicken cubes  Another favorite of hers.. is Tuna with Mayo .. served with a small spoon and some Wasa crackers.. I let her put it on her own crackers and eat them. Peanut Butter I buy either the Natural (my kids are crazy about it) or I get Skippy as it’s the lowest carb one i’ve found so far that isnt "Natural". Vegetables are a hard one..  Dips ?? maybe served with them. My children have tried every veggie that i’ve made. and Even if they dont like them.. once every 3-4 months I ask them to re-try it. My son went from hating Cauliflower to loving it  (with cheese melted on it). One way a friend of mine helped her kids like Vegetables was to put Ranch dip on a plate in a few different dabs.. added a different food color to each. Served Broccoli, cauliflower, celery, carrots (all slightly blanched) , and cucumbers. Then told them it was vegetable paint ..heheh. Good Luck with the kids It’s always good to cut back on Sugars in the diet . ~Karen~ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hey, I’ve been thinking about it. Definitely not so they can loose weight, it’s more of a health thing. Or learning how to eat healthy. Also, if it helps with their concentration and listening, etc, that would be good…they’re pretty hyper, but then again they’re 5 & 6.  I’ve cut back on their sugar a lot, but I need some ideas with breakfast…they’re not crazy about eggs.  When it snowed last month I tried making them hot chocolate with heavy cream & water, and they hate it.  For the peanut butter, do you use regular, or sugar free? My kids are SO picky…any ideas for getting kids that don’t like vegetables to at least *try* them?  And does anyone know if the Keto macaroni & cheese is any good? *sigh* Thanks, Michelle

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Hey, I’ve been thinking about it. Definitely not so they can loose weight, it’s more of a health thing. Or learning how to eat healthy. Also, if it helps with their concentration and listening, etc, that would be good…they’re pretty hyper, but then again they’re 5 & 6.  I’ve cut back on their sugar a lot, but I need some ideas with breakfast…they’re not crazy about eggs.  When it snowed last month I tried making them hot chocolate with heavy cream & water, and they hate it.  For the peanut butter, do you use regular, or sugar free? My kids are SO picky…any ideas for getting kids that don’t like vegetables to at least *try* them?  And does anyone know if the Keto macaroni & cheese is any good? *sigh* Thanks, Michelle

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Me and my daughter are both doing Atkins.  She is 11 and has/had about 20-25 extra pounds to loose.  I am proud to say that she has lost 9.5 of those extra pounds in 3 1/2 weeks (we started on 3/22/03).  She decides what she wants to eat.  She even took it upon herself to read the induction part of the book and she really understands what she can/can’t eat.  And when she doesn’t know if she can have it she doesn’t eat it and then asks me if it is allowed the next time she has a chance. What we have found that works good for her is that she gets a lunch tray at school and eats what she is "allowed" to have.  Usually it is the meat cheese off a sandwhich (or pizza, etc.) and a veggie/salad cup.  She brings flavored water (crystal light, SF koolaid or Wal-mart brand Clear flavored water) to school with her and also brings an extra bottle full of plain water (that she is allowed to have at her desk).  On days that the school is having something that she can’t have at all (like biscuits and gravy) she brings her lunch. Which usually consists of a large salad (with meat and cheese, etc) or the other day I cooked her a pork chop and broccoli (both she requested).  She hasn’t told everybody that she is LCing but she has told her two closest friends. She doesn’t seem to mind eating "different" than the other kids but on the other hand my daughter isn’t afraid to be different.  I am so proud of her for sticking with this program.  I told her that now that she is done with induction that she could add more carbs (5) and she thought about it and then decided not to…she likes the way/food that she is currently eating and doesn’t feel the need to add more carbs.  She lost 1.5 pounds last week. The other day she had a friend spend the night.  We planned ahead of time about what to eat and have for snacks.  Especially since kids usually love to get together and eat candy and drink sugar soda.  So the girls finally decided on salami, cheese, sunflower seeds and diet coke for snacks and then for dinner I fixed teriyaki chicken and a huge plate of different vegetables.  Both of them were very satisfied and didn’t seem to miss the candy at all. Have I said how proud of her I am:-).  This is certainly getting into a way of eating for us and we BOTH love it.  There are things that we miss having but we can LIVE without them so we do. Beth Q. 389/366/150 Started Atkins 3/22/03 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi…I just wanted to see how many people have there kids doing Low carb also…I have been doing it this time since jan. and my daughter has decided to do it with me. Im really happy she is gonna try it again …This group has really helped me..So I was hopeing to be able to start something for parents with kids doing it to..Giving ideas to eachother to help make it easier for Kids to do this..I know for me Im gonna have fights about what she can eat and Im dreading it. So any help would be great..Thanks..Laurie Oh I know sometimes its hard to follow up and find posts so If u wanna e-mail me that would be fine..Thanks again

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The change in him is like night and day.. from not listening at all.. to "can i help you mom with anything?" No temper flare ups and he’s hardly ever tired.. and when he does go to sleep.. no more sleepwalking )) His school grades have gone up.. because the teacher said his concentration is way better too. Is this a common change in adults too?  My concentration is TERRIBLE, I’d love it if it helped.

In my case, it did help.  YMMV – drastically.  It’s all a case of adaptation IIRC. — http://forums.delphiforums.com/lowcarbrecipes/start

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I also make peanut butter cookies at home.. 1 cup Peanut butter, 3/4 c Splenda (AS), 1 egg… mix well.. will get pasty as you mix.. roll in balls.. put on cookie sheet , flatten, cook at 325 for about 8-10 mins. Hope this helps ..If you have any ideas and suggestions for kids lunches I’d love to hear them ~Karen~

My kids don’t low-carb at all, although I am trying to steer them away from simple sugars and flours. Several things that are appropriate for a moderate carb lunch and usually OK with my kids are string cheese – individually wrapped cut veggies with ranch dressing in those 1/2 C disposable containers Low carb bread sandwiches – Nature’s Own has a good one which costs about the         same as 100% whole wheat bread, if you live where they sell it. nuts – especially pistachios, even if they are salty mixed fruit – canned or frozen, no sugar added whole fruits like peaches or pears yogurt – I add a little SF flavoring and food color to plain yogurt, and send          it in another little container. protein balls, made with whey protein powder, nut butter and SF syrup, rolled          in cocoa, toasted sesame seed or toasted coconut (sweetened with SF          syrup).

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Liz.. there’s some great ideas for lunches in your post thanks for sharing. I wish we could find good LC bread here… we also can not find SF pudding yet. My son would adore having that as a treat. My son says that lots of times the kids at his school want to have his lunch instead of his. It’s a good feeling knowing that he’s learning early (he’s9) about his nutrition. ~Karen~ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi…I just wanted to see how many people have there kids doing Low carb also…I have been doing it this time since jan. and my daughter has decided to do it with me. Im really happy she is gonna try it again …This group has really helped me..So I was hopeing to be able to start something for parents with kids doing it to..Giving ideas to eachother to help make it easier for Kids to do this..I know for me Im gonna have fights about what she can eat and Im dreading it. So any help would be great..Thanks..Laurie Both of my kids are on a modified low carb diet, the older because he has ADD/depression, and the younger because it’s simply the way he prefers to eat. For school lunches I use various things – cheese sticks, salami sticks, low carb bread, SF jam, natural almond butter, SF hazelnut spread, SF cookies, celery, carrots, apples, things like that.  They eat flaxcakes readily with SF syrup,  love bacon and eggs for breakfast, and at dinner we just have two veg and a meat dish.  We’ve never been a big dessert family, so it wasn’t hard to cut that out, occasionally they have SF ice cream or some SF pudding mix whipped with heavy cream.  The only thing they really miss is jasmine rice – they used to eat bowls and bowls of that stuff. Like Karen I’ve noticed a change at home, not real extreme, but they do seem to do better. Liz 5′8"  215/178/135 lc started: Jul 9 ‘02 Mar 5lb challenge goal: 174

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What kind of cookies did you find that are that low in carbs?   Do you stuff the celery first before wrapping them in a brown bag for lunch..Just curious..as I’m looking for ideas also for my two kids’ lunches..who are 12 and 15 …   although they don’t need to lose weight or be terribly strict..I want them to have less sugar and carbs. PZ

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The change in him is like night and day.. from not listening at all.. to "can i help you mom with anything?" No temper flare ups and he’s hardly ever tired.. and when he does go to sleep.. no more sleepwalking )) His school grades have gone up.. because the teacher said his concentration is way better too.

Is this a common change in adults too?  My concentration is TERRIBLE, I’d love it if it helped. — ~Ryan 189/189/150

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The cookies I found were made by a company called Estee. There were 3 different types ..vanilla, chocochip, and oatmeal raisin.  Its’ the first time i’ve seen them. So I havent tried them yet. They are a bit pricey $3.75 a small box so certainly not an everyday thing. Payday we will get a box and let my son try them.. I’ll let you know what he thinks. As for the celery.. I put the peanut butter or cheese whiz in a container ( I love the starfrit Lock containers 100% leak proof) .. then just pack the celery so he can dip Then it doesnt get messy or slimy I’m with you .. i didnt do this so my son could lose weight.. just less sugar and carbs and a more healthful diet. I really dont want to single him out as being a "weird eater" either though. That’s why I try to find things that resemble other kids lunches. Like the jello cups, or those new cookies etc. I also make peanut butter cookies at home.. 1 cup Peanut butter, 3/4 c Splenda (AS), 1 egg… mix well.. will get pasty as you mix.. roll in balls.. put on cookie sheet , flatten, cook at 325 for about 8-10 mins. Hope this helps ..If you have any ideas and suggestions for kids lunches I’d love to hear them ~Karen~ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -What kind of cookies did you find that are that low in carbs?   Do you stuff the celery first before wrapping them in a brown bag for lunch..Just curious..as I’m looking for ideas also for my two kids’ lunches..who are 12 and 15 …   although they don’t need to lose weight or be terribly strict..I want them to have less sugar and carbs. PZ

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Hi…I just wanted to see how many people have there kids doing Low carb also…I have been doing it this time since jan. and my daughter has decided to do it with me. Im really happy she is gonna try it again …This group has really helped me..So I was hopeing to be able to start something for parents with kids doing it to..Giving ideas to eachother to help make it easier for Kids to do this..I know for me Im gonna have fights about what she can eat and Im dreading it. So any help would be great..Thanks..Laurie

Both of my kids are on a modified low carb diet, the older because he has ADD/depression, and the younger because it’s simply the way he prefers to eat. For school lunches I use various things – cheese sticks, salami sticks, low carb bread, SF jam, natural almond butter, SF hazelnut spread, SF cookies, celery, carrots, apples, things like that.  They eat flaxcakes readily with SF syrup,  love bacon and eggs for breakfast, and at dinner we just have two veg and a meat dish.  We’ve never been a big dessert family, so it wasn’t hard to cut that out, occasionally they have SF ice cream or some SF pudding mix whipped with heavy cream.  The only thing they really miss is jasmine rice – they used to eat bowls and bowls of that stuff. Like Karen I’ve noticed a change at home, not real extreme, but they do seem to do better. Liz 5′8"  215/178/135 lc started: Jul 9 ‘02 Mar 5lb challenge goal: 174

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Laurie.. I put my son on a modified version of low carb after reading articles about it helping behaviour and sleep problems in children. I certainly am not as strict with him as I am myself.. but it sure has been working well with him. My son’s biggest gripe is that his lunch is so much different than the other kids .. ie no puddings, fruit cups, jello cups etc. I found some great no sugar jello cups at our grocery store.. and he loves those. I do hot dogs with cheese  for him, send low carb muffins, cucumber slices or celery with peanut butter or cheez whiz etc. And the other day I found some cookies at the store.. that have only 12g in 4 cookies.. so I ‘ll be picking some of those up for him too. I really dont have that much of a struggle with him.. he is more on a maintenance level of carbs.. and that allows us the freedom of having extras like an apple, occassional orange, or single slice of bread . The change in him is like night and day.. from not listening at all.. to "can i help you mom with anything?" No temper flare ups and he’s hardly ever tired.. and when he does go to sleep.. no more sleepwalking )) His school grades have gone up.. because the teacher said his concentration is way better too. Of course i know all kids are different and they need different nutritional values than grown ups..  but they certainly dont need any more sugar or simple carbs  than we do in my opinion. How is your daughter doing on it? Favorite lunches etc?? biggest gripe or hardest part for her?? I’d love to chat with  you more about it Thanks for posting ~Karen~ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi…I just wanted to see how many people have there kids doing Low carb also…I have been doing it this time since jan. and my daughter has decided to do it with me. Im really happy she is gonna try it again …This group has really helped me..So I was hopeing to be able to start something for parents with kids doing it to..Giving ideas to eachother to help make it easier for Kids to do this..I know for me Im gonna have fights about what she can eat and Im dreading it. So any help would be great..Thanks..Laurie Oh I know sometimes its hard to follow up and find posts so If u wanna e-mail me that would be fine..Thanks again

Response:

Hi…I just wanted to see how many people have there kids doing Low carb also…I have been doing it this time since jan. and my daughter has decided to do it with me. Im really happy she is gonna try it again …This group has really helped me..So I was hopeing to be able to start something for parents with kids doing it to..Giving ideas to eachother to help make it easier for Kids to do this..I know for me Im gonna have fights about what she can eat and Im dreading it. So any help would be great..Thanks..Laurie Oh I know sometimes its hard to follow up and find posts so If u wanna e-mail me that would be fine..Thanks again

Response:

OT: What are the consequences?

Question:

"John Smith" <tbo241…@iol.ie> wrote in message

news:b3eejs$fde$1@kermit.esat.net… > "Premption" is little more than a hollow "manufactured consent" imposed on > a leaderless population and depends on mass ambivalence and inaction. Pretty > much the same thing which led to the last World War.

So, "John Smith," whose side were you on in "the last World War?"

Response:

"Premption" is little more than a hollow "manufactured consent" imposed on a leaderless population and depends on mass ambivalence and inaction. Pretty much the same thing which led to the last World War. "Silver" <silve…@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message

news:3E5942E6.4FD345D1@sbcglobal.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Recently, I have only had time to read the ng but given the discussion > that has been going on among everyone when I received the following > article from my cousin, I felt I wanted to pass it on to you. I feel it > is something we should all think about very seriously. And, if I’m not > mistaken, Senator Byrd is a Republican and even he questions the > necessity > of a war with Iraq. > The below says it all.. > Reckless Administration May Reap Disastrous Consequences > by US Senator Robert Byrd > Senate Floor Speech – Wednesday, February 12, 2003 > To contemplate war is to think about the most horrible of human > experiences. > On this February day, as this nation stands at the brink of battle, > every > American on some level must be contemplating the horrors of war.Yet, > this > Chamber is, for the most part, silent — ominously, dreadfully silent. > There is no debate, no discussion, no attempt to lay out for the nation > the pros and cons of this particular war. There is nothing. > We stand passively mute in the United States Senate, paralyzed by our > own > uncertainty, seemingly stunned by the sheer turmoil of events. Only on > the > editorial pages of our newspapers is there much substantive discussion > of > the prudence or imprudence of engaging in this particular war. > And this is no small conflagration we contemplate. This is no simple > attempt to defang a villain. No. This coming battle, if it materializes, > represents a turning point in U.S. foreign policy and possibly a turning > point in the recent history of the world. > This nation is about to embark upon the first test of a revolutionary > doctrine applied in an extraordinary way at an unfortunate time. The > doctrine of preemption — the idea that the United States or any other > nation can legitimately attack a nation that is not imminently > threatening > but may be threatening in the future — is a radical new twist on the > traditional idea of self defense. It appears to be in contravention of > international law and the UN Charter. And it is being tested at a time > of > world-wide terrorism, making many countries around the globe wonder if > they will soon be on our — or some other nation’s — hit list. High > level > Administration figures recently refused to take nuclear weapons off of > the > table when discussing a possible attack against Iraq. What could be more > destabilizing and unwise than this type of uncertainty, particularly in > a > world where globalism has tied the vital economic and security interests > of many nations so closely together? There are huge cracks emerging in > our > time-honored alliances, and U.S. intentions are suddenly subject to > damaging worldwide speculation. Anti-Americanism based on mistrust, > misinformation, suspicion, and alarming rhetoric from U.S. leaders is > fracturing the once solid alliance against global terrorism which > existed after September 11. > Here at home, people are warned of imminent terrorist attacks with > little > guidance as to when or where such attacks might occur. Family members > are > being called to active military duty, with no idea of the duration of > their stay or what horrors they may face. Communities are being left > with less than adequate police and fire protection. Other essential > services are also short-staffed. The mood of the nation is grim. The > economy is stumbling. Fuel prices are rising and may soon spike higher. > This Administration, now in power for a little over two years, must be > judged on its record. I believe that that record is dismal. > In that scant two years, this Administration has squandered a large > projected surplus of some $5.6 trillion over the next decade and taken > us to projected deficits as far as the eye can see. This > Administration’s domestic policy has put many of our states in dire > financial condition, under funding scores of essential programs for our > people. This Administration has fostered policies which have slowed > economic growth. This Administration has ignored urgent matters such as > the crisis in health care for our elderly. This Administration has been > slow to provide adequate funding for homeland security. This > Administration has been reluctant to better protect our long and porous > borders. > In foreign policy, this Administration has failed to find Osama bin > Laden. > In fact, just yesterday we heard from him again marshaling his forces > and > urging them to kill. This Administration has split traditional > alliances, > possibly crippling, for all time, International order-keeping entities > like the United Nations and NATO. This Administration has called into > question the traditional worldwide perception of the United States as > well-intentioned, peacekeeper. This Administration has turned the > patient > art of diplomacy into threats, labeling, and name calling of the sort > that > reflects quite poorly on the intelligence and sensitivity of our > leaders, > and which will have consequences for years to come. > Calling heads of state pygmies, labeling whole countries as evil, > denigrating powerful European allies as irrelevant — these types of > crude > insensitivities can do our great nation no good. We may have massive > military might, but we cannot fight a global war on terrorism alone. We > need the cooperation and friendship of our time-honored allies as well > as the newer found friends whom we can attract with our wealth. Our > awesome > military machine will do us little good if we suffer another devastating > attack on our homeland which severely damages our economy. Our military > manpower is already stretched thin and we will need the augmenting > support > of those nations who can supply troop strength, not just sign letters > cheering us on. > The war in Afghanistan has cost us $37 billion so far, yet there is > evidence that terrorism may already be starting to regain its hold in > that region. We have not found bin Laden, and unless we secure the peace > in Afghanistan, the dark dens of terrorism may yet again flourish in > that remote and devastated land. > Pakistan as well is at risk of destabilizing forces. This Administration > has not finished the first war against terrorism and yet it is eager to > embark on another conflict with perils much greater than those in > Afghanistan. Is our attention span that short? Have we not learned that > after winning the war one must always secure the peace? > And yet we hear little about the aftermath of war in Iraq. In the > absence of plans, speculation abroad is rife. Will we seize Iraq’s oil > fields, becoming an occupying power which controls the price and supply > of that nation’s oil for the foreseeable future? To whom do we propose > to hand the reigns of power after Saddam Hussein? > Will our war inflame the Muslim world resulting in devastating attacks > on > Israel? Will Israel retaliate with its own nuclear arsenal? Will the > Jordanian and Saudi Arabian governments be toppled by radicals, > bolstered by Iran which has much closer ties to terrorism than Iraq? > Could a disruption of the world’s oil supply lead to a world-wide > recession? > Has our senselessly bellicose language and our callous disregard of the > interests and opinions of other nations increased the global race to > join > the nuclear club and made proliferation an even more lucrative practice > for nations which need the income? > In only the space of two short years this reckless and arrogant > Administration has initiated policies which may reap disastrous > consequences for years. > One can understand the anger and shock of any President after the savage > attacks of September 11. One can appreciate the frustration of having > only a shadow to chase and an amorphous, fleeting enemy on which it is > nearly > impossible to exact retribution. > But to turn one’s frustration and anger into the kind of extremely > destabilizing and dangerous foreign policy debacle that the world is > currently witnessing is inexcusable from any Administration charged with > the awesome power and responsibility of guiding the destiny of the > greatest superpower on the planet. Frankly many of the pronouncements > made by this Administration are outrageous. There is no other word. > Yet this chamber is hauntingly silent. On what is possibly the eve of > horrific infliction of death and destruction on the population of the > nation of Iraq — a population, I might add, of which over 50% is under > age 15 — this chamber is silent. On what is possibly only days before > we send thousands of our own citizens to face unimagined horrors of > chemical and biological warfare — this chamber is silent. On the eve of > what could > possibly be a vicious terrorist attack in retaliation for our attack on > Iraq, it is business as usual in the United States Senate. > We are truly "sleepwalking through history." In my heart of hearts I > pray > that this great nation and its good and trusting citizens are not in for > a > rudest of awakenings. > To engage in war is always to pick a wild card. And war must always be a > last resort, not a first choice. I truly must question the judgment of > any > President who can say that a massive unprovoked military attack on a > nation which is over 50% children is "in the highest moral traditions of > our country". This war is not necessary at this time. Pressure appears > to be having a good result in Iraq. Our mistake was to put ourselves in > a corner so quickly. Our challenge is to now find a graceful way out of > a box of our own making. Perhaps there is still a way if we allow more

… read more »

Response:

Recently, I have only had time to read the ng but given the discussion that has been going on among everyone when I received the following article from my cousin, I felt I wanted to pass it on to you. I feel it is something we should all think about very seriously. And, if I’m not mistaken, Senator Byrd is a Republican and even he questions the necessity of a war with Iraq. The below says it all.. Reckless Administration May Reap Disastrous Consequences by US Senator Robert Byrd Senate Floor Speech – Wednesday, February 12, 2003 To contemplate war is to think about the most horrible of human experiences. On this February day, as this nation stands at the brink of battle, every American on some level must be contemplating the horrors of war.Yet, this Chamber is, for the most part, silent — ominously, dreadfully silent. There is no debate, no discussion, no attempt to lay out for the nation the pros and cons of this particular war. There is nothing. We stand passively mute in the United States Senate, paralyzed by our own uncertainty, seemingly stunned by the sheer turmoil of events. Only on the editorial pages of our newspapers is there much substantive discussion of the prudence or imprudence of engaging in this particular war. And this is no small conflagration we contemplate. This is no simple attempt to defang a villain. No. This coming battle, if it materializes, represents a turning point in U.S. foreign policy and possibly a turning point in the recent history of the world. This nation is about to embark upon the first test of a revolutionary doctrine applied in an extraordinary way at an unfortunate time. The doctrine of preemption — the idea that the United States or any other nation can legitimately attack a nation that is not imminently threatening but may be threatening in the future — is a radical new twist on the traditional idea of self defense. It appears to be in contravention of international law and the UN Charter. And it is being tested at a time of world-wide terrorism, making many countries around the globe wonder if they will soon be on our — or some other nation’s — hit list. High level Administration figures recently refused to take nuclear weapons off of the table when discussing a possible attack against Iraq. What could be more destabilizing and unwise than this type of uncertainty, particularly in a world where globalism has tied the vital economic and security interests of many nations so closely together? There are huge cracks emerging in our time-honored alliances, and U.S. intentions are suddenly subject to damaging worldwide speculation. Anti-Americanism based on mistrust, misinformation, suspicion, and alarming rhetoric from U.S. leaders is fracturing the once solid alliance against global terrorism which existed after September 11. Here at home, people are warned of imminent terrorist attacks with little guidance as to when or where such attacks might occur. Family members are being called to active military duty, with no idea of the duration of their stay or what horrors they may face. Communities are being left with less than adequate police and fire protection. Other essential services are also short-staffed. The mood of the nation is grim. The economy is stumbling. Fuel prices are rising and may soon spike higher. This Administration, now in power for a little over two years, must be judged on its record. I believe that that record is dismal. In that scant two years, this Administration has squandered a large projected surplus of some $5.6 trillion over the next decade and taken us to projected deficits as far as the eye can see. This Administration’s domestic policy has put many of our states in dire financial condition, under funding scores of essential programs for our people. This Administration has fostered policies which have slowed economic growth. This Administration has ignored urgent matters such as the crisis in health care for our elderly. This Administration has been slow to provide adequate funding for homeland security. This Administration has been reluctant to better protect our long and porous borders. In foreign policy, this Administration has failed to find Osama bin Laden. In fact, just yesterday we heard from him again marshaling his forces and urging them to kill. This Administration has split traditional alliances, possibly crippling, for all time, International order-keeping entities like the United Nations and NATO. This Administration has called into question the traditional worldwide perception of the United States as well-intentioned, peacekeeper. This Administration has turned the patient art of diplomacy into threats, labeling, and name calling of the sort that reflects quite poorly on the intelligence and sensitivity of our leaders, and which will have consequences for years to come. Calling heads of state pygmies, labeling whole countries as evil, denigrating powerful European allies as irrelevant — these types of crude insensitivities can do our great nation no good. We may have massive military might, but we cannot fight a global war on terrorism alone. We need the cooperation and friendship of our time-honored allies as well as the newer found friends whom we can attract with our wealth. Our awesome military machine will do us little good if we suffer another devastating attack on our homeland which severely damages our economy. Our military manpower is already stretched thin and we will need the augmenting support of those nations who can supply troop strength, not just sign letters cheering us on. The war in Afghanistan has cost us $37 billion so far, yet there is evidence that terrorism may already be starting to regain its hold in that region. We have not found bin Laden, and unless we secure the peace in Afghanistan, the dark dens of terrorism may yet again flourish in that remote and devastated land. Pakistan as well is at risk of destabilizing forces. This Administration has not finished the first war against terrorism and yet it is eager to embark on another conflict with perils much greater than those in Afghanistan. Is our attention span that short? Have we not learned that after winning the war one must always secure the peace? And yet we hear little about the aftermath of war in Iraq. In the absence of plans, speculation abroad is rife. Will we seize Iraq’s oil fields, becoming an occupying power which controls the price and supply of that nation’s oil for the foreseeable future? To whom do we propose to hand the reigns of power after Saddam Hussein? Will our war inflame the Muslim world resulting in devastating attacks on Israel? Will Israel retaliate with its own nuclear arsenal? Will the Jordanian and Saudi Arabian governments be toppled by radicals, bolstered by Iran which has much closer ties to terrorism than Iraq? Could a disruption of the world’s oil supply lead to a world-wide recession? Has our senselessly bellicose language and our callous disregard of the interests and opinions of other nations increased the global race to join the nuclear club and made proliferation an even more lucrative practice for nations which need the income? In only the space of two short years this reckless and arrogant Administration has initiated policies which may reap disastrous consequences for years. One can understand the anger and shock of any President after the savage attacks of September 11. One can appreciate the frustration of having only a shadow to chase and an amorphous, fleeting enemy on which it is nearly impossible to exact retribution. But to turn one’s frustration and anger into the kind of extremely destabilizing and dangerous foreign policy debacle that the world is currently witnessing is inexcusable from any Administration charged with the awesome power and responsibility of guiding the destiny of the greatest superpower on the planet. Frankly many of the pronouncements made by this Administration are outrageous. There is no other word. Yet this chamber is hauntingly silent. On what is possibly the eve of horrific infliction of death and destruction on the population of the nation of Iraq — a population, I might add, of which over 50% is under age 15 — this chamber is silent. On what is possibly only days before we send thousands of our own citizens to face unimagined horrors of chemical and biological warfare — this chamber is silent. On the eve of what could possibly be a vicious terrorist attack in retaliation for our attack on Iraq, it is business as usual in the United States Senate. We are truly "sleepwalking through history." In my heart of hearts I pray that this great nation and its good and trusting citizens are not in for a rudest of awakenings. To engage in war is always to pick a wild card. And war must always be a last resort, not a first choice. I truly must question the judgment of any President who can say that a massive unprovoked military attack on a nation which is over 50% children is "in the highest moral traditions of our country". This war is not necessary at this time. Pressure appears to be having a good result in Iraq. Our mistake was to put ourselves in a corner so quickly. Our challenge is to now find a graceful way out of a box of our own making. Perhaps there is still a way if we allow more time. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*   http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

Response:

>   Hi Silver, >     Senator Byrd is a democrat. >         Kathy K.

Oooops….sorry! However, I really feel what he said though was very significant and we should all think about it "before" the body bags start coming home. You know…this is suppose to be a world problem not just America’s and definitely not Bush’s. But he wants to defy the UN and NATO and most of the rest the world and "go it alone, if we have to". The only problem is.. he’s going it alone from DC while our young people "may" get slaughtered by biological and chemical weapons over there. Not to mention what other zealots might do here. I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to get on the soap box because it really doesn’t make a difference. Afterall, Bush has "made up his mind" and, as those who know him say, "nothing will stop him when he’s made up his mind"! Silver

Response:

"Silver" <silve…@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message

news:3E597E0F.9CBD33D2@sbcglobal.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >   Hi Silver, > >     Senator Byrd is a democrat. > >         Kathy K. > Oooops….sorry! However, I really feel what he said though was very > significant and we should all think about it "before" the body bags > start > coming home. > You know…this is suppose to be a world problem not just America’s and > definitely not Bush’s. But he wants to defy the UN and NATO and most of > the rest the world and "go it alone, if we have to". The only problem > is.. > he’s going it alone from DC while our young people "may" get slaughtered > by biological and chemical weapons over there. Not to mention what other > zealots might do here. > I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to get on the soap box because it really > doesn’t > make a difference. Afterall, Bush has "made up his mind" and, as those > who > know him say, "nothing will stop him when he’s made up his mind"! > Silver

  Silver – isn’t that going to be difficult for bush to do? I mean that’s going to be amazing – you know – without a brain & all…<g>   I’m glad that you posted Senator Byrd’s speech because I had forgotten about wanting to read it. I’m pleased to see Sen. Byrd use such strong language & I only wish that others would do the same. The silence is deafening isn’t it. We sure don’t get any information from the U.S. media.   The Bush administration has made trying to live with M.S. much harder for people like me (with no health care.).     Now I will get down off my soapbox – sorry…        Kathy K.

Response:

Thanks Silver, for providing this article. It was disturbing and in many ways echoed my own thoughts and fears….. dory

Response:

"Silver" <silve…@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message

news:3E5942E6.4FD345D1@sbcglobal.net… > Recently, I have only had time to read the ng but given the discussion > that has been going on among everyone when I received the following > article from my cousin, I felt I wanted to pass it on to you. I feel it > is something we should all think about very seriously. And, if I’m not > mistaken, Senator Byrd is a Republican and even he questions the > necessity > of a war with Iraq.

  Hi Silver,     Senator Byrd is a democrat.         Kathy K. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The below says it all.. > Reckless Administration May Reap Disastrous Consequences > by US Senator Robert Byrd > Senate Floor Speech – Wednesday, February 12, 2003 > To contemplate war is to think about the most horrible of human > experiences. > On this February day, as this nation stands at the brink of battle, > every > American on some level must be contemplating the horrors of war.Yet, > this > Chamber is, for the most part, silent — ominously, dreadfully silent. > There is no debate, no discussion, no attempt to lay out for the nation > the pros and cons of this particular war. There is nothing. > We stand passively mute in the United States Senate, paralyzed by our > own > uncertainty, seemingly stunned by the sheer turmoil of events. Only on > the > editorial pages of our newspapers is there much substantive discussion > of > the prudence or imprudence of engaging in this particular war. > And this is no small conflagration we contemplate. This is no simple > attempt to defang a villain. No. This coming battle, if it materializes, > represents a turning point in U.S. foreign policy and possibly a turning > point in the recent history of the world. > This nation is about to embark upon the first test of a revolutionary > doctrine applied in an extraordinary way at an unfortunate time. The > doctrine of preemption — the idea that the United States or any other > nation can legitimately attack a nation that is not imminently > threatening > but may be threatening in the future — is a radical new twist on the > traditional idea of self defense. It appears to be in contravention of > international law and the UN Charter. And it is being tested at a time > of > world-wide terrorism, making many countries around the globe wonder if > they will soon be on our — or some other nation’s — hit list. High > level > Administration figures recently refused to take nuclear weapons off of > the > table when discussing a possible attack against Iraq. What could be more > destabilizing and unwise than this type of uncertainty, particularly in > a > world where globalism has tied the vital economic and security interests > of many nations so closely together? There are huge cracks emerging in > our > time-honored alliances, and U.S. intentions are suddenly subject to > damaging worldwide speculation. Anti-Americanism based on mistrust, > misinformation, suspicion, and alarming rhetoric from U.S. leaders is > fracturing the once solid alliance against global terrorism which > existed after September 11. > Here at home, people are warned of imminent terrorist attacks with > little > guidance as to when or where such attacks might occur. Family members > are > being called to active military duty, with no idea of the duration of > their stay or what horrors they may face. Communities are being left > with less than adequate police and fire protection. Other essential > services are also short-staffed. The mood of the nation is grim. The > economy is stumbling. Fuel prices are rising and may soon spike higher. > This Administration, now in power for a little over two years, must be > judged on its record. I believe that that record is dismal. > In that scant two years, this Administration has squandered a large > projected surplus of some $5.6 trillion over the next decade and taken > us to projected deficits as far as the eye can see. This > Administration’s domestic policy has put many of our states in dire > financial condition, under funding scores of essential programs for our > people. This Administration has fostered policies which have slowed > economic growth. This Administration has ignored urgent matters such as > the crisis in health care for our elderly. This Administration has been > slow to provide adequate funding for homeland security. This > Administration has been reluctant to better protect our long and porous > borders. > In foreign policy, this Administration has failed to find Osama bin > Laden. > In fact, just yesterday we heard from him again marshaling his forces > and > urging them to kill. This Administration has split traditional > alliances, > possibly crippling, for all time, International order-keeping entities > like the United Nations and NATO. This Administration has called into > question the traditional worldwide perception of the United States as > well-intentioned, peacekeeper. This Administration has turned the > patient > art of diplomacy into threats, labeling, and name calling of the sort > that > reflects quite poorly on the intelligence and sensitivity of our > leaders, > and which will have consequences for years to come. > Calling heads of state pygmies, labeling whole countries as evil, > denigrating powerful European allies as irrelevant — these types of > crude > insensitivities can do our great nation no good. We may have massive > military might, but we cannot fight a global war on terrorism alone. We > need the cooperation and friendship of our time-honored allies as well > as the newer found friends whom we can attract with our wealth. Our > awesome > military machine will do us little good if we suffer another devastating > attack on our homeland which severely damages our economy. Our military > manpower is already stretched thin and we will need the augmenting > support > of those nations who can supply troop strength, not just sign letters > cheering us on. > The war in Afghanistan has cost us $37 billion so far, yet there is > evidence that terrorism may already be starting to regain its hold in > that region. We have not found bin Laden, and unless we secure the peace > in Afghanistan, the dark dens of terrorism may yet again flourish in > that remote and devastated land. > Pakistan as well is at risk of destabilizing forces. This Administration > has not finished the first war against terrorism and yet it is eager to > embark on another conflict with perils much greater than those in > Afghanistan. Is our attention span that short? Have we not learned that > after winning the war one must always secure the peace? > And yet we hear little about the aftermath of war in Iraq. In the > absence of plans, speculation abroad is rife. Will we seize Iraq’s oil > fields, becoming an occupying power which controls the price and supply > of that nation’s oil for the foreseeable future? To whom do we propose > to hand the reigns of power after Saddam Hussein? > Will our war inflame the Muslim world resulting in devastating attacks > on > Israel? Will Israel retaliate with its own nuclear arsenal? Will the > Jordanian and Saudi Arabian governments be toppled by radicals, > bolstered by Iran which has much closer ties to terrorism than Iraq? > Could a disruption of the world’s oil supply lead to a world-wide > recession? > Has our senselessly bellicose language and our callous disregard of the > interests and opinions of other nations increased the global race to > join > the nuclear club and made proliferation an even more lucrative practice > for nations which need the income? > In only the space of two short years this reckless and arrogant > Administration has initiated policies which may reap disastrous > consequences for years. > One can understand the anger and shock of any President after the savage > attacks of September 11. One can appreciate the frustration of having > only a shadow to chase and an amorphous, fleeting enemy on which it is > nearly > impossible to exact retribution. > But to turn one’s frustration and anger into the kind of extremely > destabilizing and dangerous foreign policy debacle that the world is > currently witnessing is inexcusable from any Administration charged with > the awesome power and responsibility of guiding the destiny of the > greatest superpower on the planet. Frankly many of the pronouncements > made by this Administration are outrageous. There is no other word. > Yet this chamber is hauntingly silent. On what is possibly the eve of > horrific infliction of death and destruction on the population of the > nation of Iraq — a population, I might add, of which over 50% is under > age 15 — this chamber is silent. On what is possibly only days before > we send thousands of our own citizens to face unimagined horrors of > chemical and biological warfare — this chamber is silent. On the eve of > what could > possibly be a vicious terrorist attack in retaliation for our attack on > Iraq, it is business as usual in the United States Senate. > We are truly "sleepwalking through history." In my heart of hearts I > pray > that this great nation and its good and trusting citizens are not in for > a > rudest of awakenings. > To engage in war is always to pick a wild card. And war must always be a > last resort, not a first choice. I truly must question the judgment of > any > President who can say that a massive unprovoked military attack on a > nation which is over 50% children is "in the highest moral traditions of > our country". This war is not necessary at this time. Pressure appears > to be having a good result in Iraq. Our mistake was to put ourselves in > a corner so quickly. Our challenge is to now find a graceful way out of > a box of our own making. Perhaps there is still a way if we allow more > time. > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection

… read more »

Response:

What's in *your* Bunker?

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My goodness.  I’m really sorry you’re all so scared.  I don’t mean this smugly – I truly am sorry. Despite lots of terror alerts in London, no-one I know is preparing a room with duct tape or expecting World War Three.  Perhaps it’s because we’ve lived with live uncontained terrorist threats for such a long time.  Maybe we are foolishly optimistic, but I doubt if these measures would do much good in the vent of an attack anyway.  I also seriously doubt if anyone likely to launch a terrorist attack has much nuclear capability, so even if the US starts firing off all round I think it’s unlikely to escalate further.  In the last Gulf War a lot was said about Scud missiles and in the end the damage they did even in Tel Aviv was minimal. I’d say: cultivate your garden, hug your loved ones, and enjoy your life.

Well said.  We Americans just love to feel in danger.  Ends the petty squabbling amongst ourselves and brings us together.  I also believe we fear death more than any other culture on Earth.

Response:

Well said.  We Americans just love to feel in danger.

Puh-leeze. Americans are merely responding to a fear-inspiring, unrelenting media. CODE ORANGE!!!  CODE ORANGE!!! I’m reminded of the movie, "Wag the Dog." Despite what my previous post may imply, I’m not scared.  I’m ready. Having seen firsthand the devastation of 9/11, I can’t imagine feeling any other way.  No way in hell those images will be erased from my mind.  And FWIW, I feel damn lucky to have lived 33 years, 361 days without imagining the effects of future terror. So, no duct tape here.  Just living in an altered reality, not frozen by what might be. eff

Response:

the whole plastic and duck tape thing is a bit crazy, I notice how there were reports about how people could prepare, then a day or so later you started seeing reports that depending on the type of chemial/biological weapon the pastic might not do any good at all, and it would also depend on the type of plastic as well as the type of bio/chem agent. Some reports when on to say you should just shut all your windows, and turn off your heating/cooling system and not worry with the plastic. It’s scary stuff to think about. I would think even more so for people in major cities like New York, Washington DC, and Los Angeles.       Tricia**

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well said.  We Americans just love to feel in danger. Puh-leeze. Americans are merely responding to a fear-inspiring, unrelenting media. CODE ORANGE!!!  CODE ORANGE!!! I’m reminded of the movie, "Wag the Dog." Despite what my previous post may imply, I’m not scared.  I’m ready. Having seen firsthand the devastation of 9/11, I can’t imagine feeling any other way.  No way in hell those images will be erased from my mind.  And FWIW, I feel damn lucky to have lived 33 years, 361 days without imagining the effects of future terror. So, no duct tape here.  Just living in an altered reality, not frozen by what might be. eff

Well, Jane’s post does remind one that horrific devastation is a part of recent history for many, many countries, including hers, and that it is a part of daily history for too many others.

Response:

the whole plastic and duck tape thing is a bit crazy, I notice how there were reports about how people could prepare, then a day or so later you started seeing reports that depending on the type of chemial/biological weapon the pastic might not do any good at all, and it would also depend on the type of plastic as well as the type of bio/chem agent. Some reports when on to say you should just shut all your windows, and turn off your heating/cooling system and not worry with the plastic. It’s scary stuff to think about. I would think even more so for people in major cities like New York, Washington DC, and Los Angeles. Tricia**

Yes, so much of it is just courage building "chest thumping".  How many peeps have you come across that are "not scared, just prepared", with a safe room full of guns, a year’s supply of food, a 4×4 on massive tires jacked up 3 feet, radiation dosimeters, etc., etc., and now all this.  The whole thing smacks of fear.

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Well, Jane’s post does remind one that horrific devastation is a part of recent history for many, many countries, including hers, and that it is a part of daily history for too many others.

Exactly.  Personally, I’d heard about acts of terror all over the world, but until that firsthand experience, I had no *real* idea how to feel about it. So, in some small way, I can better empathize with those who, for ages, have had to live with the overbearing dread that it *will* happen again.

Response:

Oh, and as far as stocking up on the essentials, I have peanut butter, water, batteries and my CD player.  I have my priorities. eff

People always stock up here at the slightest chance of snow or ice (I can’t really blame them since once 2 years ago they were calling for an inch and we ended up getting 18 — I couldn’t even open my front door) So today I went to the grocery store and it was a zoo, One thing that struck me as odd was the water section was just about wiped out.  Some of the higher priced water was still there but almost all of the Ukrops (store brand), Deer Park and Amelia springs (local too) water was pretty much all gone.  - I have never seen it empty like that before. The lines were horribly long and I made the comment to the woman ahead of me in line, "I wonder if people are stocking up for snow or for terrorism?" , and the woman in the next line over said "Snow!!"  but they all had a good laugh. Tricia**

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My husband is retired now but his used to be an NBC instructor for the Army. NBC is Nuclear, Biological, Chemical survival. He says truthfully that unless you are a good distance from the event most of these ideas are little better than busy work.

Thanks for the perspective, Elf.  I think that a false sense of security is more dangerous than an accurate sense of potential threats. I think the Red Cross Disaster Preparedness page is pretty reasonable–almost all of the precautions are ones everyone should take in case of natural disaster, let alone the human-precipitated kind. http://www.redcross.org/services/disaster/keepsafe/unexpected.html T.

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Yes, so much of it is just courage building "chest thumping".  How many peeps have you come across that are "not scared, just prepared", with a safe room full of guns, a year’s supply of food, a 4×4 on massive tires jacked up 3 feet, radiation dosimeters, etc., etc., and now all this.  The whole thing smacks of fear.

Sounds like Michael Gross and Reba McEntire in "Tremors" — Marsha 200ish/192/120 cardio 4 X week resistance training 2 X week mini goal:  to weigh a little less than my husband goal goal:  to weigh a lot less than my husband

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My goodness.  I’m really sorry you’re all so scared.  I don’t mean this smugly – I truly am sorry.   Despite lots of terror alerts in London, no-one I know is preparing a room with duct tape or expecting World War Three.  Perhaps it’s because we’ve lived with live uncontained terrorist threats for such a long time.  Maybe we are foolishly optimistic, but I doubt if these measures would do much good in the vent of an attack anyway.  I also seriously doubt if anyone likely to launch a terrorist attack has much nuclear capability, so even if the US starts firing off all round I think it’s unlikely to escalate further.  In the last Gulf War a lot was said about Scud missiles and in the end the damage they did even in Tel Aviv was minimal.   I’d say: cultivate your garden, hug your loved ones, and enjoy your life.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I don’t have one.  I am ignoring the latest scare tactics because it’s really getting out of control. If someone launches a chemical or biological attack against the US, do you think it will be long before we start launching nukes in reply?  And long before nukes are everywhere?  I don’t.  So having extra clean water probably won’t do any good. — Robin in Michigan 240/223/150 – Minigoal – 199 by Apr05 Jan 7, 2003 Hey Low-Carbers, I have to admit that at first I was totally blowing off the warnings about the heightened security alert. I figured it was just recycled Y2K paranoia. But a number of people whose instincts I respect say that, while they’re not out building a bomb shelter, they are stocking up on the off chance of problems. It’s hard to argue w/ that, so I figured I’d put an emergency pack together, just in case. Ok, the water, toilet paper, change of clothes, radio and batteries stuff I think I have a handle on (although getting it together will be a pita), but what about food? If it comes to that, staying low carb probably isn’t going to be high on my priorities anyway, but I figure if I’m stocking up on foods I might as well get stuff I can use anyway. I’m assuming that I won’t be able to count on having access to the refrigerator or stove. So, what else is there besides bars, shake mixes and nuts? I suppose I could hoard a stash of those mini-moos that are ok at room temperature. Anything else? Just out of curiousity. I live in D.C.; are people in other parts of the country (besides N.Y.C.) preparing to hunker down or is this pretty much localized? I realize those of you in Denmark probably aren’t too concerned. Thanks, Martha — Begin where you are – but don’t end there.

– Jane Lumley

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Doing the good old cold war, the Army used to teach that if an enemy used chemical weapons against us.  The NATO response was to use nukes.  During the Gulf War, I believe that’s what we told Iraq we would do if they used them. I live in rural Western NY and I don’t think we’re in too much danger.  12 degrees and high winds. From what I was aways told, you need optimal weather conditions to deploy a chemical weapon.  Even in the Washington and New York areas, I don’t think your going to get them this time of year.  Unless it’s something small like a subway or mall attack. Terrorism is supposed to cause fear and panic.  I don’t think I’m going to play into that. Dan =) Doesn’t this remind you of "Duck and Cover?" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t have one.  I am ignoring the latest scare tactics because it’s really getting out of control. If someone launches a chemical or biological attack against the US, do you think it will be long before we start launching nukes in reply?  And long before nukes are everywhere?  I don’t.  So having extra clean water probably won’t do any good. — Robin in Michigan 240/223/150 – Minigoal – 199 by Apr05 Jan 7, 2003 Hey Low-Carbers, I have to admit that at first I was totally blowing off the warnings about the heightened security alert. I figured it was just recycled Y2K paranoia. But a number of people whose instincts I respect say that, while they’re not out building a bomb shelter, they are stocking up on the off chance of problems. It’s hard to argue w/ that, so I figured I’d put an emergency pack together, just in case. Ok, the water, toilet paper, change of clothes, radio and batteries stuff I think I have a handle on (although getting it together will be a pita), but what about food? If it comes to that, staying low carb probably isn’t going to be high on my priorities anyway, but I figure if I’m stocking up on foods I might as well get stuff I can use anyway. I’m assuming that I won’t be able to count on having access to the refrigerator or stove. So, what else is there besides bars, shake mixes and nuts? I suppose I could hoard a stash of those mini-moos that are ok at room temperature. Anything else? Just out of curiousity. I live in D.C.; are people in other parts of the country (besides N.Y.C.) preparing to hunker down or is this pretty much localized? I realize those of you in Denmark probably aren’t too concerned. Thanks, Martha — Begin where you are – but don’t end there.

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Well, at our house we have two freezers in the basement (each about half full at the moment) plus a separate pantry half full of food, cases of TP and other essentials.  The stove is propane (50 gal tank) and we’ve got enough wood inside the house to keep the woodstove running for months.  We also have a gas generator and spare gas, and a 300 gallon water tank in the basement.  Plus our well and septic are self-contained. But none of this has anything to do with the "emergency". We just have a 0.3 mile long driveway, and sometimes get many feet of snow at a time.  Around here, access to civilization is not assumed

Response:

You’re missing the most important supply item!  That’s right, chocolate. After the dust settles women will be looking for a man who can take care of them, and if you have chocolate you’ll be in a better position with the women.  You don’t want to screw up, so get the top of the line *gourmet* chocolate.  Yup, Hershey’s Kisses.  I know, they’re expensive.  You’ll be thankful you did though.  All you’ll have to do is put a line of Kisses leading up to your trailer (tie the dogs to the El Camino you got up on blocks) or they’ll eat ‘em) and you’ll be swimmin in wimmin. Think you’re gonna get that job?  If you get it don’t forget the chocolate! — Take care, Carmen A lady came up to me on the street, pointed at my suede jacket and said, "Don’t you know a cow was murdered for that jacket?" I said, "I didn’t know there were any witnesses. Now I’ll have to kill you too".

Response:

It’s hard to argue w/ that, so I figured I’d put an emergency pack together, just in case. Ok, the water, toilet paper, change of clothes, radio and batteries stuff I think I have a handle on (although getting it together will be a pita), but what about food? If it comes to that, staying low carb probably isn’t going to be high on my priorities anyway, but I figure if I’m stocking up on foods I might as well get stuff I can use anyway. I’m assuming that I won’t be able to count on having access to the refrigerator or stove. So, what else is there besides bars, shake mixes and nuts? I suppose I could hoard a stash of those mini-moos that are ok at room temperature. Anything else?

Tinned fish, spam (any tinned meat if you can stomach it), dry stuff like jerky … ? But when it comes to the crunch, survival is far more important than watching your carbs I think … cheers Rachel (New Zealand)

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500 lbs of cheese.  If I need a mere 1500 calories a day while sitting on my butt, I’m good for 608 days.

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I’ve been expecting another attack since 9/11.  I look at random buildings in the NYC skyline and say to myself, "Gee, I wonder if that’ll still be around tomorrow?" I live a block away from a nice view of one of the city’s most prominent bridges.  Every time I see it, I imagine it blowing up.  Because in my head, it’s just a matter of time. Also, I’m about two miles away from the U.N. building.  Anyone wanna guess what’s gonna happen to it in 2004? Oddly, I don’t want to leave NYC.  I love it here.  I’ve learned to live with my expectations.  But at the very least, I’m going to be diligent enough to move west of the U.N. building before 2004. Oh, and as far as stocking up on the essentials, I have peanut butter, water, batteries and my CD player.  I have my priorities. eff By US Senator Robert Byrd Senate Floor Speech Wednesday, February 12, 2003 To contemplate war is to think about the most horrible of human experiences. On this February day, as this nation stands at the brink of battle, every American on some level must be contemplating the horrors of war. Yet, this Chamber is, for the most part, silent — ominously, dreadfully silent. There is no debate, no discussion, no attempt to lay out for the nation the pros and cons of this particular war. There is nothing. We stand passively mute in the United States Senate, paralyzed by our own uncertainty, seemingly stunned by the sheer turmoil of events. Only on the editorial pages of our newspapers is there much substantive discussion of the prudence or imprudence of engaging in this particular war. And this is no small conflagration we contemplate. This is no simple attempt to defang a villain. No. This coming battle, if it materializes, represents a turning point in U.S. foreign policy and possibly a turning point in the recent history of the world. This nation is about to embark upon the first test of a revolutionary doctrine applied in an extraordinary way at an unfortunate time. The doctrine of preemption — the idea that the United States or any other nation can legitimately attack a nation that is not imminently threatening but may be threatening in the future — is a radical new twist on the traditional idea of self defense. It appears to be in contravention of international law and the UN Charter. And it is being tested at a time of world-wide terrorism, making many countries around the globe wonder if they will soon be on our — or some other nation’s — hit list. High level Administration figures recently refused to take nuclear weapons off of the table when discussing a possible attack against Iraq. What could be more destabilizing and unwise than this type of uncertainty, particularly in a world where globalism has tied the vital economic and security interests of many nations so closely together? There are huge cracks emerging in our time-honored alliances, and U.S. intentions are suddenly subject to damaging worldwide speculation. Anti-Americanism based on mistrust, misinformation, suspicion, and alarming rhetoric from U.S. leaders is fracturing the once solid alliance against global terrorism which existed after September 11. Here at home, people are warned of imminent terrorist attacks with little guidance as to when or where such attacks might occur. Family members are being called to active military duty, with no idea of the duration of their stay or what horrors they may face. Communities are being left with less than adequate police and fire protection. Other essential services are also short-staffed. The mood of the nation is grim. The economy is stumbling. Fuel prices are rising and may soon spike higher. This Administration, now in power for a little over two years, must be judged on its record. I believe that that record is dismal. In that scant two years, this Administration has squandered a large projected surplus of some $5.6 trillion over the next decade and taken us to projected deficits as far as the eye can see. This Administration’s domestic policy has put many of our states in dire financial condition, under funding scores of essential programs for our people. This Administration has fostered policies which have slowed economic growth. This Administration has ignored urgent matters such as the crisis in health care for our elderly. This Administration has been slow to provide adequate funding for homeland security. This Administration has been reluctant to better protect our long and porous borders. In foreign policy, this Administration has failed to find Osama bin Laden. In fact, just yesterday we heard from him again marshaling his forces and urging them to kill. This Administration has split traditional alliances, possibly crippling, for all time, International order-keeping entities like the United Nations and NATO. This Administration has called into question the traditional worldwide perception of the United States as well-intentioned, peacekeeper. This Administration has turned the patient art of diplomacy into threats, labeling, and name calling of the sort that reflects quite poorly on the intelligence and sensitivity of our leaders, and which will have consequences for years to come. Calling heads of state pygmies, labeling whole countries as evil, denigrating powerful European allies as irrelevant — these types of crude insensitivities can do our great nation no good. We may have massive military might, but we cannot fight a global war on terrorism alone. We need the cooperation and friendship of our time-honored allies as well as the newer found friends whom we can attract with our wealth. Our awesome military machine will do us little good if we suffer another devastating attack on our homeland which severely damages our economy. Our military manpower is already stretched thin and we will need the augmenting support of those nations who can supply troop strength, not just sign letters cheering us on. The war in Afghanistan has cost us $37 billion so far, yet there is evidence that terrorism may already be starting to regain its hold in that region. We have not found bin Laden, and unless we secure the peace in Afghanistan, the dark dens of terrorism may yet again flourish in that remote and devastated land. Pakistan as well is at risk of destabilizing forces. This Administration has not finished the first war against terrorism and yet it is eager to embark on another conflict with perils much greater than those in Afghanistan. Is our attention span that short? Have we not learned that after winning the war one must always secure the peace? And yet we hear little about the aftermath of war in Iraq. In the absence of plans, speculation abroad is rife. Will we seize Iraq’s oil fields, becoming an occupying power which controls the price and supply of that nation’s oil for the foreseeable future? To whom do we propose to hand the reigns of power after Saddam Hussein? Will our war inflame the Muslim world resulting in devastating attacks on Israel? Will Israel retaliate with its own nuclear arsenal? Will the Jordanian and Saudi Arabian governments be toppled by radicals, bolstered by Iran which has much closer ties to terrorism than Iraq? Could a disruption of the world’s oil supply lead to a world-wide recession? Has our senselessly bellicose language and our callous disregard of the interests and opinions of other nations increased the global race to join the nuclear club and made proliferation an even more lucrative practice for nations which need the income? In only the space of two short years this reckless and arrogant Administration has initiated policies which may reap disastrous consequences for years. One can understand the anger and shock of any President after the savage attacks of September 11. One can appreciate the frustration of having only a shadow to chase and an amorphous, fleeting enemy on which it is nearly impossible to exact retribution. But to turn one’s frustration and anger into the kind of extremely destabilizing and dangerous foreign policy debacle that the world is currently witnessing is inexcusable from any Administration charged with the awesome power and responsibility of guiding the destiny of the greatest superpower on the planet. Frankly many of the pronouncements made by this Administration are outrageous. There is no other word. Yet this chamber is hauntingly silent. On what is possibly the eve of horrific infliction of death and destruction on the population of the nation of Iraq — a population, I might add, of which over 50% is under age 15 — this chamber is silent. On what is possibly only days before we send thousands of our own citizens to face unimagined horrors of chemical and biological warfare — this chamber is silent. On the eve of what could possibly be a vicious terrorist attack in retaliation for our attack on Iraq, it is business as usual in the United States Senate. We are truly "sleepwalking through history." In my heart of hearts I pray that this great nation and its good and trusting citizens are not in for a rudest of awakenings. To engage in war is always to pick a wild card. And war must always be a last resort, not a first choice. I truly must question the judgment of any President who can say that a massive unprovoked military attack on a nation which is over 50% children is "in the highest moral traditions of our country". This war is not necessary at this time. Pressure appears to be having a good result in Iraq. Our mistake was to put ourselves in a corner so quickly. Our challenge is to now find a graceful way out of a box of our own making. Perhaps there is still a way if we allow more time.

Response:

ARGH – dirty bombs & snow in one weekend:( Canned tuna, bottled water, duct tape & plastic tarps plus the usual milk, bread & toilet paper madness. I am in the DC area and was most ditressed to discover that not only was Costco sold out of the 12-packs of chunk light tuna that I eat for lunch 4 days a week, but they were also out of the cheap  squeezey bottles of water that I carry with me everywhere I go — I had to pay $2.00/case more for those bottles that you have to take the lid off to drink:( water and DUCT TAPE are not going to save your life in anysort of emergency, but their hoarding is screwing with MY routines. OK, maybe it is pretty Rainman-ish to melt down becuase the nutballs are hogging the tuna fish, but I don’t have time to think about lunch. I go to the gym & work out & I need something quick & easy that requires no thinking (I have severe food allegies) and that I can eat while I am returning the calls/emails that came in while I was at the gym. Anyway, back to my emergency plan. A change of clothes, some cash, my laptop and a loaded pistol. Head south/southwest about 100 miles & check into the first clean looking hotel with cable TV and internet access & chill out until things are calm enough to go home — if things haven’t settled down in 3 days, I will email friends and family in the midwest & the other coast & see who wants a couple of houseguests with 3 dogs & six birds:) What a wacky world:)Robyn

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I don’t have one.  I am ignoring the latest scare tactics because it’s really getting out of control. If someone launches a chemical or biological attack against the US, do you think it will be long before we start launching nukes in reply?  And long before nukes are everywhere?  I don’t.  So having extra clean water probably won’t do any good. — Robin in Michigan 240/223/150 – Minigoal – 199 by Apr05 Jan 7, 2003

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey Low-Carbers, I have to admit that at first I was totally blowing off the warnings about the heightened security alert. I figured it was just recycled Y2K paranoia. But a number of people whose instincts I respect say that, while they’re not out building a bomb shelter, they are stocking up on the off chance of problems. It’s hard to argue w/ that, so I figured I’d put an emergency pack together, just in case. Ok, the water, toilet paper, change of clothes, radio and batteries stuff I think I have a handle on (although getting it together will be a pita), but what about food? If it comes to that, staying low carb probably isn’t going to be high on my priorities anyway, but I figure if I’m stocking up on foods I might as well get stuff I can use anyway. I’m assuming that I won’t be able to count on having access to the refrigerator or stove. So, what else is there besides bars, shake mixes and nuts? I suppose I could hoard a stash of those mini-moos that are ok at room temperature. Anything else? Just out of curiousity. I live in D.C.; are people in other parts of the country (besides N.Y.C.) preparing to hunker down or is this pretty much localized? I realize those of you in Denmark probably aren’t too concerned. Thanks, Martha — Begin where you are – but don’t end there.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Water filters can only do so much. Don’t rely exclusively on them. If you are going to bother to stockpile then you better stockpile bottled water. Also for the things a filter can fix, what do you intend to do with used contaminated filters? Do you have plenty of spares? Do you have disposable gloves to dispose of the ‘dirty’ filters"? Its a huge undertaking and not very practical to try to implement. Those gov. warnings for three days of provisions are for those NOT in the heart of an event. Just like those local decon units that clean two to four people at the rate of 3 minutes per decon. How long do you think it would take to do an entire town? How many people would be trampled by those farther back in line wanting to get to the front and how many would die waiting for it to be their turn? My husband is retired now but his used to be an NBC instructor for the Army. NBC is Nuclear, Biological, Chemical survival. He says truthfully that unless you are a good distance from the event most of these ideas are little better than busy work. Radiation pursists for a couple of weeks. Its estimated that with a small dirty bomb it takes two weeks for 99 per cent of it to break down but in the event of a bigger event it could take 1 to 3 months for a 99% breakdown. Biological contamination usually is shorter. Chemical will still be absorbed my the parts of our bodies outside the gas masks. Even a type as old fashioned as mustard will devestate our bodies mask or not if we come in contact with it. The only good thing is chemicals do break down and disapate faster then nuclear or biological attacks. All are in turn picked back up by exposure to non decontaminated surfaces and/or air. Unless you don’t intend to walk on the ground you will pick it up and track it around if any remains when you do leave your shelter. Can you stay in that one room the gov is telling us to prepare with plastic and duct tape for three days more less three months with everyone you know crowded in and no outside contact? What about outside air? What about bathrooms? Can’t flush – can’t wash, can’t see a doctor. Can’t even open the door to get rid of garbage, sewage or even the dead. Creepy isn’t it? No I don’t have an answer but I know the present advice is because they don’t have an answer either.  The horrible truth is in a catasrophic event their ideas will not work for most of us either.

Thanks for making my day suckier than it already was.  Not that I ever think the government gives a shit anyway.  Just wishful thinking. Bald truth is painful. — http://forums.delphiforums.com/lowcarbrecipes/start GREATER POOP: Are you really serious or what? MAL-2: Sometimes I take humor seriously. Sometimes I take seriousness humorously. Either way it is irrelevant.

Response:

 I’ve always had water filters and like 20 to 30 pounds of rice

Water filters can only do so much. Don’t rely exclusively on them. If you are going to bother to stockpile then you better stockpile bottled water. Also for the things a filter can fix, what do you intend to do with used contaminated filters? Do you have plenty of spares? Do you have disposable gloves to dispose of the ‘dirty’ filters"? Its a huge undertaking and not very practical to try to implement. Those gov. warnings for three days of provisions are for those NOT in the heart of an event. Just like those local decon units that clean two to four people at the rate of 3 minutes per decon. How long do you think it would take to do an entire town? How many people would be trampled by those farther back in line wanting to get to the front and how many would die waiting for it to be their turn? My husband is retired now but his used to be an NBC instructor for the Army. NBC is Nuclear, Biological, Chemical survival. He says truthfully that unless you are a good distance from the event most of these ideas are little better than busy work. Radiation pursists for a couple of weeks. Its estimated that with a small dirty bomb it takes two weeks for 99 per cent of it to break down but in the event of a bigger event it could take 1 to 3 months for a 99% breakdown. Biological contamination usually is shorter. Chemical will still be absorbed my the parts of our bodies outside the gas masks. Even a type as old fashioned as mustard will devestate our bodies mask or not if we come in contact with it. The only good thing is chemicals do break down and disapate faster then nuclear or biological attacks. All are in turn picked back up by exposure to non decontaminated surfaces and/or air. Unless you don’t intend to walk on the ground you will pick it up and track it around if any remains when you do leave your shelter. Can you stay in that one room the gov is telling us to prepare with plastic and duct tape for three days more less three months with everyone you know crowded in and no outside contact? What about outside air? What about bathrooms? Can’t flush – can’t wash, can’t see a doctor. Can’t even open the door to get rid of garbage, sewage or even the dead. Creepy isn’t it? No I don’t have an answer but I know the present advice is because they don’t have an answer either.  The horrible truth is in a catasrophic event their ideas will not work for most of us either.

Response:

Hey Low-Carbers, I have to admit that at first I was totally blowing off the warnings about the heightened security alert. I figured it was just recycled Y2K paranoia. But a number of people whose instincts I respect say that, while they’re not out building a bomb shelter, they are stocking up on the off chance of problems. It’s hard to argue w/ that, so I figured I’d put an emergency pack together, just in case. Ok, the water, toilet paper, change of clothes, radio and batteries stuff I think I have a handle on (although getting it together will be a pita), but what about food? If it comes to that, staying low carb probably isn’t going to be high on my priorities anyway, but I figure if I’m stocking up on foods I might as well get stuff I can use anyway. I’m assuming that I won’t be able to count on having access to the refrigerator or stove. So, what else is there besides bars, shake mixes and nuts? I suppose I could hoard a stash of those mini-moos that are ok at room temperature. Anything else? Just out of curiousity. I live in D.C.; are people in other parts of the country (besides N.Y.C.) preparing to hunker down or is this pretty much localized? I realize those of you in Denmark probably aren’t too concerned. Thanks, Martha — Begin where you are – but don’t end there.

Response:

Hey Martha, I was thinking about the same thing.  If you want to look at kits I’ve bought from this website before and they seem to be a good outfit: http://www.baproducts.com/emerprep.htm But also like you I wonder what food I should keep around.  I’ve always had water filters and like 20 to 30 pounds of rice.  I’m thinking about getting an extra supply of things that I consider important for nutrition, such as vitamins, and food preparation things like salt.  Also I’m looking for bulk protien powder, but I haven’t found it yet.  Yes where to find freeze-dried low carb foods?  Like you though I would like to stock up for short-term disruptions and I’m looking for ways to do that.  Please let me know what you find. -Tony – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey Low-Carbers, I have to admit that at first I was totally blowing off the warnings about the heightened security alert. I figured it was just recycled Y2K paranoia. But a number of people whose instincts I respect say that, while they’re not out building a bomb shelter, they are stocking up on the off chance of problems. It’s hard to argue w/ that, so I figured I’d put an emergency pack together, just in case. Ok, the water, toilet paper, change of clothes, radio and batteries stuff I think I have a handle on (although getting it together will be a pita), but what about food? If it comes to that, staying low carb probably isn’t going to be high on my priorities anyway, but I figure if I’m stocking up on foods I might as well get stuff I can use anyway. I’m assuming that I won’t be able to count on having access to the refrigerator or stove. So, what else is there besides bars, shake mixes and nuts? I suppose I could hoard a stash of those mini-moos that are ok at room temperature. Anything else? Just out of curiousity. I live in D.C.; are people in other parts of the country (besides N.Y.C.) preparing to hunker down or is this pretty much localized? I realize those of you in Denmark probably aren’t too concerned. Thanks, Martha — Begin where you are – but don’t end there.

Response:

Untreated insomnia

Question:

I have suffered with insomnia since childhood, and finally sought treatment for it 3 years ago.  My first sleep study indicated that I do awaken about 12 times per hour, but for no discernable reason.  I do not have OSA, and though I do have RLS, I do not have any leg movements. I have been taking Ambien and Neurontin for about 1.5 years and it had been effectively treating the condition (or at least the symptoms).  However, a stint of working third shift caused it to spiral out of control, culminating in sleepwalking.  Worse still, the object of my sleepwalking was apparently to take obscene doses of Ambien (18 one night, 6 the next and 8 the night after that).  Now, after a repeat sleep study and wrist actigraph, my doctor has decided that I do not need treatment at all. My concern is that I have just become a liability to my physician and that his course of treatment is based on his fear that I might OD and then bring a lawsuit against him.  Has anyone else, after years of prescription treatment, had his physician decide that "less is more"? Also, does anyone else have the feeling that the either the sleep study is incorrect about the amount of time you spent sleeping or that perhaps the distinction between being awake and asleep is not so, well, distinct? Thanks, Paul

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Paul Overbey wrote: > I have suffered with insomnia since childhood, and finally sought treatment > for it 3 years ago.  My first sleep study indicated that I do awaken about > 12 times per hour, but for no discernable reason.  I do not have OSA, and > though I do have RLS, I do not have any leg movements. > I have been taking Ambien and Neurontin for about 1.5 years and it had been > effectively treating the condition (or at least the symptoms).  However, a > stint of working third shift caused it to spiral out of control, culminating > in sleepwalking.  Worse still, the object of my sleepwalking was apparently > to take obscene doses of Ambien (18 one night, 6 the next and 8 the night > after that).  Now, after a repeat sleep study and wrist actigraph, my doctor > has decided that I do not need treatment at all. > My concern is that I have just become a liability to my physician and that > his course of treatment is based on his fear that I might OD and then bring > a lawsuit against him.  Has anyone else, after years of prescription > treatment, had his physician decide that "less is more"? > Also, does anyone else have the feeling that the either the sleep study is > incorrect about the amount of time you spent sleeping or that perhaps the > distinction between being awake and asleep is not so, well, distinct? > Thanks, > Paul

Paul…… I can’t comment of most of your situation, but as for the sleep test, it is very common for people to underestimate the length of time they sleep on the test. I’d suggest you get a copy of your sleep tests and have them looked at by another doctor and/or post them here.  There are some very knowledgeable people here who might pick up on something. Regards Lee in Toronto —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Thanks for all your help

Question:

"eric pearson" <.com> wrote in message com… > Congratulations on getting some > basic father rights. I take it you are not in > the USA where there is usually a legal assumption > that the fafter is always a jerk and the mother is always a saint? > regards, > eric pearson > db2e…@nospammindspring.com

Eric…….. i think this "50’s" thinking is changing rather rapidly…….. and that the basis was more "the mother stays home with the children" that somehow deteriorated into you above comment…….. sigh JOINT custody is becoming more and more the norm, and parents being sent for counselling on how to talk reasonably with each other is a typical courtroom "sentence" being passed out one can only pray k

Response:

I just wanted to thank all of you who wrote in with support and suggestions for my legal plight.  As you may recall, my ex was trying to keep me from having my kids sleep overnight, arguing that since I sleepwalk, I was a hazard to them, in spite of the fact the sleepwalking has been controlled by medication for over 10 years. The special advocate (a woman, if you care) looked at all the sleep studies, various expert witnesses, and said to my ex "Let me get this straight.  When you two were married, it was fine for him to take care of the kids when you were out of town, but now it’s not?  Case dismissed."  I got my first overnight with my son in almost 2 years last night. Thanks a million.

Response:

Congratulations on getting some basic father rights. I take it you are not in the USA where there is usually a legal assumption that the fafter is always a jerk and the mother is always a saint? regards, eric pearson db2e…@nospammindspring.com On 10 Nov 2002 04:52:32 GMT, morpheus80…@aol.comnojunko – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -(Morpheus80026) wrote: >I just wanted to thank all of you who wrote in with support and suggestions for >my legal plight.  As you may recall, my ex was trying to keep me from having my >kids sleep overnight, arguing that since I sleepwalk, I was a hazard to them, >in spite of the fact the sleepwalking has been controlled by medication for >over 10 years. >The special advocate (a woman, if you care) looked at all the sleep studies, >various expert witnesses, and said to my ex "Let me get this straight.  When >you two were married, it was fine for him to take care of the kids when you >were out of town, but now it’s not?  Case dismissed."  I got my first overnight >with my son in almost 2 years last night. >Thanks a million.

Response:

Congratulations!  Sometimes the system works. Judy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Morpheus80026 wrote: > I just wanted to thank all of you who wrote in with support and suggestions for > my legal plight.  As you may recall, my ex was trying to keep me from having my > kids sleep overnight, arguing that since I sleepwalk, I was a hazard to them, > in spite of the fact the sleepwalking has been controlled by medication for > over 10 years. > The special advocate (a woman, if you care) looked at all the sleep studies, > various expert witnesses, and said to my ex "Let me get this straight.  When > you two were married, it was fine for him to take care of the kids when you > were out of town, but now it’s not?  Case dismissed."  I got my first overnight > with my son in almost 2 years last night. > Thanks a million.

Response:

"Morpheus80026" <> wrote in message com… > The special advocate (a woman, if you care) looked at all the sleep studies, > various expert witnesses, and said to my ex "Let me get this straight. When > you two were married, it was fine for him to take care of the kids when you > were out of town, but now it’s not?  Case dismissed."  I got my first overnight > with my son in almost 2 years last night.

your last sentence brought a tear to my eyes………. congratulations on a sane and reasonable outcome to your issues……….. may the lines of communication remain open as long as your children are still children take care kate

Response:

And Catherine BOUNCES back into ASAP with a BANG!

Question:

:Guess what???  For the first time in ages I actually feel half decent!!!  I :am AWAKE, I don’t feel like I will soon need to dash to the bathroom, I did :some HOMEWORK today and a (semi = I-haven’t-exercised-in-ages-style) :workout!!!  YAY!!  Last night I slept (mostly slept, some bad dreams and I :think some sleepwalking too) without any sleeping tablets!  I am also only 1 :tablet a day away from finishing the whole "weening" onto my bipolar :medication!  Yesterday I wanted to die and now I feel really good (which :makes me suspicious it’s just another mood swing) but I’m trying to be :positive!!!   Dear Cat, I`m so glad to hear that you are feeling better. I`ll keep my fingers crossed that this is the real thing and not a swing ) Keep us updated! {{{{{Cat}}}}} Jackie ~*~How cunningly nature hides every wrinkle of her inconceivable antiquity under roses and violets and morning dew~*~      ~Ralph Waldo Emerson~

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all! Guess what???  For the first time in ages I actually feel half decent!!!  I am AWAKE, I don’t feel like I will soon need to dash to the bathroom, I did some HOMEWORK today and a (semi = I-haven’t-exercised-in-ages-style) workout!!!  YAY!!  Last night I slept (mostly slept, some bad dreams and I think some sleepwalking too) without any sleeping tablets!  I am also only 1 tablet a day away from finishing the whole "weening" onto my bipolar medication!  Yesterday I wanted to die and now I feel really good (which makes me suspicious it’s just another mood swing) but I’m trying to be positive!!!  Admittedly I do still feel a little queasy in the tum-tum, but I have a choice of 3 different ant-acids should I need anything (thanks to a kindly visit to the supermarket by my mother) and some prescription medicine from my doctor (but that didn’t really help much).  I am still having lots of anxiety but I am coping without any benzos and soon I’ll be able to increase my Aropax dosage so that should be okay too! So; Thankyou to everyone who supported me while I was feeling so very horrid, especially Margrove and Meryl {{{{Margrove}}}}, {{{{{Meryl}}}}. I am sorry I haven’t been posting much at all.  Hopefully I will feel MUCH better soon and all that will change.  I just want to wish you all a wonderful Tuesday/Wednesday (depending on where you are in the world), and a good morning/evening!  Much love, x Cath.

Yay Catherine! Hope it keeps up! Love, Karen

Response:

Hi, Cath, Glad you are having a good day and I hope it continues… smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all! Guess what???  For the first time in ages I actually feel half decent!!! I am AWAKE, I don’t feel like I will soon need to dash to the bathroom, I did some HOMEWORK today and a (semi = I-haven’t-exercised-in-ages-style) workout!!!  YAY!!  Last night I slept (mostly slept, some bad dreams and I think some sleepwalking too) without any sleeping tablets!  I am also only 1 tablet a day away from finishing the whole "weening" onto my bipolar medication!  Yesterday I wanted to die and now I feel really good (which makes me suspicious it’s just another mood swing) but I’m trying to be positive!!!  Admittedly I do still feel a little queasy in the tum-tum, but I have a choice of 3 different ant-acids should I need anything (thanks to a kindly visit to the supermarket by my mother) and some prescription medicine from my doctor (but that didn’t really help much).  I am still having lots of anxiety but I am coping without any benzos and soon I’ll be able to increase my Aropax dosage so that should be okay too! So; Thankyou to everyone who supported me while I was feeling so very horrid, especially Margrove and Meryl {{{{Margrove}}}}, {{{{{Meryl}}}}. I am sorry I haven’t been posting much at all.  Hopefully I will feel MUCH better soon and all that will change.  I just want to wish you all a wonderful Tuesday/Wednesday (depending on where you are in the world), and a good morning/evening!  Much love, x Cath. — ~ A Friend is a person who knows all about you but likes you anyway ~ All mail is filtered.

Response:

Hey Catherine, Great to see you bouncing back. love Meryl

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all! Guess what???  For the first time in ages I actually feel half decent!!! I am AWAKE, I don’t feel like I will soon need to dash to the bathroom, I did some HOMEWORK today and a (semi = I-haven’t-exercised-in-ages-style) workout!!!  YAY!!  Last night I slept (mostly slept, some bad dreams and I think some sleepwalking too) without any sleeping tablets!  I am also only 1 tablet a day away from finishing the whole "weening" onto my bipolar medication!  Yesterday I wanted to die and now I feel really good (which makes me suspicious it’s just another mood swing) but I’m trying to be positive!!!  Admittedly I do still feel a little queasy in the tum-tum, but I have a choice of 3 different ant-acids should I need anything (thanks to a kindly visit to the supermarket by my mother) and some prescription medicine from my doctor (but that didn’t really help much).  I am still having lots of anxiety but I am coping without any benzos and soon I’ll be able to increase my Aropax dosage so that should be okay too! So; Thankyou to everyone who supported me while I was feeling so very horrid, especially Margrove and Meryl {{{{Margrove}}}}, {{{{{Meryl}}}}. I am sorry I haven’t been posting much at all.  Hopefully I will feel MUCH better soon and all that will change.  I just want to wish you all a wonderful Tuesday/Wednesday (depending on where you are in the world), and a good morning/evening!  Much love, x Cath. — ~ A Friend is a person who knows all about you but likes you anyway ~ All mail is filtered.

Response:

Hi, Cath: You sound terrific! I just got back from vacation, but I’ve been thinking about you and everyone. I’m so glad the med process seems to be going well. Glad to hear from you, Cath. xxoo Anne

Response:

Hi Cath! I’m very happy to hear you feel so good today.  Yipeeeeeee!  Better days are coming.  {{{{{Cath}}}}} Di

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all! Guess what???  For the first time in ages I actually feel half decent!!! I am AWAKE, I don’t feel like I will soon need to dash to the bathroom, I did some HOMEWORK today and a (semi = I-haven’t-exercised-in-ages-style) workout!!!  YAY!!  Last night I slept (mostly slept, some bad dreams and I think some sleepwalking too) without any sleeping tablets!  I am also only 1 tablet a day away from finishing the whole "weening" onto my bipolar medication!  Yesterday I wanted to die and now I feel really good (which makes me suspicious it’s just another mood swing) but I’m trying to be positive!!!  Admittedly I do still feel a little queasy in the tum-tum, but I have a choice of 3 different ant-acids should I need anything (thanks to a kindly visit to the supermarket by my mother) and some prescription medicine from my doctor (but that didn’t really help much).  I am still having lots of anxiety but I am coping without any benzos and soon I’ll be able to increase my Aropax dosage so that should be okay too! So; Thankyou to everyone who supported me while I was feeling so very horrid, especially Margrove and Meryl {{{{Margrove}}}}, {{{{{Meryl}}}}. I am sorry I haven’t been posting much at all.  Hopefully I will feel MUCH better soon and all that will change.  I just want to wish you all a wonderful Tuesday/Wednesday (depending on where you are in the world), and a good morning/evening!  Much love, x Cath. — ~ A Friend is a person who knows all about you but likes you anyway ~ All mail is filtered.

Response:

So glad you are feeling better, Catherine!!  This is nice news to hear. Take care, Liz – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all! Guess what???  For the first time in ages I actually feel half decent!!!  I am AWAKE, I don’t feel like I will soon need to dash to the bathroom, I did some HOMEWORK today and a (semi = I-haven’t-exercised-in-ages-style) workout!!!  YAY!!  Last night I slept (mostly slept, some bad dreams and I think some sleepwalking too) without any sleeping tablets!  I am also only 1 tablet a day away from finishing the whole "weening" onto my bipolar medication!  Yesterday I wanted to die and now I feel really good (which makes me suspicious it’s just another mood swing) but I’m trying to be positive!!!  Admittedly I do still feel a little queasy in the tum-tum, but I have a choice of 3 different ant-acids should I need anything (thanks to a kindly visit to the supermarket by my mother) and some prescription medicine from my doctor (but that didn’t really help much).  I am still having lots of anxiety but I am coping without any benzos and soon I’ll be able to increase my Aropax dosage so that should be okay too! So; Thankyou to everyone who supported me while I was feeling so very horrid, especially Margrove and Meryl {{{{Margrove}}}}, {{{{{Meryl}}}}. I am sorry I haven’t been posting much at all.  Hopefully I will feel MUCH better soon and all that will change.  I just want to wish you all a wonderful Tuesday/Wednesday (depending on where you are in the world), and a good morning/evening!  Much love, x Cath. — ~ A Friend is a person who knows all about you but likes you anyway ~ All mail is filtered.

Response:

Hope you continue to feel better, (((Cath))) Chip

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all! Guess what???  For the first time in ages I actually feel half decent!!! I am AWAKE, I don’t feel like I will soon need to dash to the bathroom, I did some HOMEWORK today and a (semi = I-haven’t-exercised-in-ages-style) workout!!!  YAY!!  Last night I slept (mostly slept, some bad dreams and I think some sleepwalking too) without any sleeping tablets!  I am also only 1 tablet a day away from finishing the whole "weening" onto my bipolar medication!  Yesterday I wanted to die and now I feel really good (which makes me suspicious it’s just another mood swing) but I’m trying to be positive!!!  Admittedly I do still feel a little queasy in the tum-tum, but I have a choice of 3 different ant-acids should I need anything (thanks to a kindly visit to the supermarket by my mother) and some prescription medicine from my doctor (but that didn’t really help much).  I am still having lots of anxiety but I am coping without any benzos and soon I’ll be able to increase my Aropax dosage so that should be okay too! So; Thankyou to everyone who supported me while I was feeling so very horrid, especially Margrove and Meryl {{{{Margrove}}}}, {{{{{Meryl}}}}. I am sorry I haven’t been posting much at all.  Hopefully I will feel MUCH better soon and all that will change.  I just want to wish you all a wonderful Tuesday/Wednesday (depending on where you are in the world), and a good morning/evening!  Much love, x Cath. — ~ A Friend is a person who knows all about you but likes you anyway ~ All mail is filtered.

Response:

Hi all! Guess what???  For the first time in ages I actually feel half decent!!!  I am AWAKE, I don’t feel like I will soon need to dash to the bathroom, I did some HOMEWORK today and a (semi = I-haven’t-exercised-in-ages-style) workout!!!  YAY!!  Last night I slept (mostly slept, some bad dreams and I think some sleepwalking too) without any sleeping tablets!  I am also only 1 tablet a day away from finishing the whole "weening" onto my bipolar medication!  Yesterday I wanted to die and now I feel really good (which makes me suspicious it’s just another mood swing) but I’m trying to be positive!!!  Admittedly I do still feel a little queasy in the tum-tum, but I have a choice of 3 different ant-acids should I need anything (thanks to a kindly visit to the supermarket by my mother) and some prescription medicine from my doctor (but that didn’t really help much).  I am still having lots of anxiety but I am coping without any benzos and soon I’ll be able to increase my Aropax dosage so that should be okay too! So; Thankyou to everyone who supported me while I was feeling so very horrid, especially Margrove and Meryl {{{{Margrove}}}}, {{{{{Meryl}}}}. I am sorry I haven’t been posting much at all.  Hopefully I will feel MUCH better soon and all that will change.  I just want to wish you all a wonderful Tuesday/Wednesday (depending on where you are in the world), and a good morning/evening!  Much love, x Cath. — ~ A Friend is a person who knows all about you but likes you anyway ~ All mail is filtered.

Response:

Sleepwalking Cats

Question:

My nine year old tortoiseshell female seems to sleepwalk.  She gets up and starts moving but seems not to be fully awake.  She quite often gets halfway to wherever she is going, sits down and looks round as if she can’t quite figure out how she got there.  None of my other cats have ever done this and the people I have spoken to who own cats find this behaviour strange.  It doesn’t cause any problems and she has been like this since she was a kitten but I would be interested to know if anyone else has a cat who behaves in a similar manner. Cathryn

Response:

It doesn’t cause any problems and she has been like this since she was a kitten but I would be interested to know if anyone else has a cat who behaves in a similar manner.

I don’t know of any cats that do this but I know I sleep walk. I won’t wake up from sleepwalking unless someone wakes me up, then I’m not too happy about it for some reason. Otherwise I just walk back to bed. They say people sleep walk in deep sleep, not REM sleep. Maybe it’s the same for cats.

Response:

I am not sure whether cats sleep walk or not but I know it is quite normal for cats to walk from one spot and then shortly later lay down in another. Some cats are just acting like their royal selves so it doesn’t surprise me they do this. — The station that has cats meowing for more. Cat Galaxy- The Internet radio station for cats. Meow meow meow!! http://members.cox.net/catprotector/station Real Player, Winamp and Windows Media Player http://www.live365.com/play/231353 The forum for felines everywhere. Join the Cat Galaxy Forum today! Meow! http://communities.msn.com/CatGalaxy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It doesn’t cause any problems and she has been like this since she was a kitten but I would be interested to know if anyone else has a cat who behaves in a similar manner. I don’t know of any cats that do this but I know I sleep walk. I won’t wake up from sleepwalking unless someone wakes me up, then I’m not too happy about it for some reason. Otherwise I just walk back to bed. They say people sleep walk in deep sleep, not REM sleep. Maybe it’s the same for cats.

Response:

My nine year old tortoiseshell female seems to sleepwalk.  She gets up and starts moving but seems not to be fully awake.  She quite often gets halfway to wherever she is going, sits down and looks round as if she can’t quite figure out how she got there.  None of my other cats have ever done this and the people I have spoken to who own cats find this behaviour strange.  It doesn’t cause any problems and she has been like this since she was a kitten but I would be interested to know if anyone else has a cat who behaves in a similar manner. Cathryn

Response:

It doesn’t cause any problems and she has been like this since she was a kitten but I would be interested to know if anyone else has a cat who behaves in a similar manner.

I don’t know of any cats that do this but I know I sleep walk. I won’t wake up from sleepwalking unless someone wakes me up, then I’m not too happy about it for some reason. Otherwise I just walk back to bed. They say people sleep walk in deep sleep, not REM sleep. Maybe it’s the same for cats.

Response:

I am not sure whether cats sleep walk or not but I know it is quite normal for cats to walk from one spot and then shortly later lay down in another. Some cats are just acting like their royal selves so it doesn’t surprise me they do this. — The station that has cats meowing for more. Cat Galaxy- The Internet radio station for cats. Meow meow meow!! http://members.cox.net/catprotector/station Real Player, Winamp and Windows Media Player http://www.live365.com/play/231353 The forum for felines everywhere. Join the Cat Galaxy Forum today! Meow! http://communities.msn.com/CatGalaxy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It doesn’t cause any problems and she has been like this since she was a kitten but I would be interested to know if anyone else has a cat who behaves in a similar manner. I don’t know of any cats that do this but I know I sleep walk. I won’t wake up from sleepwalking unless someone wakes me up, then I’m not too happy about it for some reason. Otherwise I just walk back to bed. They say people sleep walk in deep sleep, not REM sleep. Maybe it’s the same for cats.

Response:

My nine year old tortoiseshell female seems to sleepwalk.  She gets up and starts moving but seems not to be fully awake.  She quite often gets halfway to wherever she is going, sits down and looks round as if she can’t quite figure out how she got there.  None of my other cats have ever done this and the people I have spoken to who own cats find this behaviour strange.  It doesn’t cause any problems and she has been like this since she was a kitten but I would be interested to know if anyone else has a cat who behaves in a similar manner. Cathryn

Response:

It doesn’t cause any problems and she has been like this since she was a kitten but I would be interested to know if anyone else has a cat who behaves in a similar manner.

I don’t know of any cats that do this but I know I sleep walk. I won’t wake up from sleepwalking unless someone wakes me up, then I’m not too happy about it for some reason. Otherwise I just walk back to bed. They say people sleep walk in deep sleep, not REM sleep. Maybe it’s the same for cats.

Response:

I am not sure whether cats sleep walk or not but I know it is quite normal for cats to walk from one spot and then shortly later lay down in another. Some cats are just acting like their royal selves so it doesn’t surprise me they do this. — The station that has cats meowing for more. Cat Galaxy- The Internet radio station for cats. Meow meow meow!! http://members.cox.net/catprotector/station Real Player, Winamp and Windows Media Player http://www.live365.com/play/231353 The forum for felines everywhere. Join the Cat Galaxy Forum today! Meow! http://communities.msn.com/CatGalaxy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It doesn’t cause any problems and she has been like this since she was a kitten but I would be interested to know if anyone else has a cat who behaves in a similar manner. I don’t know of any cats that do this but I know I sleep walk. I won’t wake up from sleepwalking unless someone wakes me up, then I’m not too happy about it for some reason. Otherwise I just walk back to bed. They say people sleep walk in deep sleep, not REM sleep. Maybe it’s the same for cats.

Response:

Sleepwalking

Question:

Anyone here ever have trouble with sleepwalking or extremely vivid dreams shortly after going off Paxil and/or Seroquel? I’ve been off them totally (I tapered off them slowly) for about 10 days now and I’m having kind of a bad time. Haven’t had a sleepwalking incident since I was a little boy until last night.  I’m wondering how worried I should be about this. Also, the vividness (and weirdness) of my dreams is very extreme. They’ve stuck with me and bothered me all day.

Helps if you tell the dream. Helps to forget it. Really.  I’m not just being nosy. Ok, I am being nosy. But this does help.

Response:

Anyone here ever have trouble with sleepwalking or extremely vivid dreams shortly after going off Paxil and/or Seroquel? I’ve been off them totally (I tapered off them slowly) for about 10 days now and I’m having kind of a bad time. Haven’t had a sleepwalking incident since I was a little boy until last night.  I’m wondering how worried I should be about this. Also, the vividness (and weirdness) of my dreams is very extreme. They’ve stuck with me and bothered me all day.

Response:

just a thought,might be an idea to go back on your meds. as for worrying about sleep walking,kind of depends if there are any stairs where you live and how far you walked in your sleep.if there are no stairs and you don’t walk very far,i don’t think theres much to worry about except walking into a wall or stubbing your toe. lone wolf eat the pizza and drink the beer to e-mail me – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone here ever have trouble with sleepwalking or extremely vivid dreams shortly after going off Paxil and/or Seroquel? I’ve been off them totally (I tapered off them slowly) for about 10 days now and I’m having kind of a bad time. Haven’t had a sleepwalking incident since I was a little boy until last night.  I’m wondering how worried I should be about this. Also, the vividness (and weirdness) of my dreams is very extreme. They’ve stuck with me and bothered me all day. Helps if you tell the dream. Helps to forget it. Really.  I’m not just being nosy. Ok, I am being nosy. But this does help.

Response:

Awwww. {{{Kaelwyn}}} It’ll fade out and get better, I’m sure. Least you didn’t dream about walking ankle deep in a bunch of squids…

Oh great, now I can’t go to sleep tonite.   Funny you should mention squid though, I’ve just been reading up some on my old buddy Architeuthis.  I’m fascinated by the subject actually. — subtract 1983 to send me email End Trans

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Helps if you tell the dream. Helps to forget it. Really.  I’m not just being nosy. Ok, I am being nosy. But this does help. hehehe…. I dreamed that I was a cop and that I got shot in the back in the restroom of a convenience store.  I was back there trying to put on a bullet proof vest because I knew this guy was gonna come into the bathroom and start shooting.  I got the vest on but he shot me in the small of the back anyway and I was still hurt pretty badly.  There was no one around to help me so I walked to the hospital myself hiding all the way to avoid the killer.  When I got to the hospital, my family was there waiting for me and they were worried.  Only it wasn’t my real family, it was the Keatons of Family Ties.  And instead of getting my gunshot wound fixed, I sat there in the waiting room talking to them. They were patting me on the back and hugging me and telling me everything was gonna be ok and stuff. And then before I woke up there was one more little part to the dream that was extremely disturbing to me and I don’t really think I should tell it in here. Needless to say, I was very upset when I woke up.  It was like half of the dream was a nightmare and the other half was really nice.  That coupled with the extreme vividness of detail that I’m able to recall about it made for a very disturbing day for me today.  And then finding out that I was sleepwalking also last night just disturbs me even more.

Awwww. {{{Kaelwyn}}} It’ll fade out and get better, I’m sure. Least you didn’t dream about walking ankle deep in a bunch of squids…

Response:

just a thought,might be an idea to go back on your meds.

I’m not comfortable taking meds in the situation tha I’m stuck in though becuase nobody listens to me or addresses my concerns.  They just keep playing damn guessing games with my meds and acting like I’m not even in the room. as for worrying about sleep walking,kind of depends if there are any stairs where you live and how far you walked in your sleep.if there are no stairs and you don’t walk very far,i don’t think theres much to worry about except walking into a wall or stubbing your toe.

No stairs but I’m just worried about if I go outside or if I start a fire or something by accident while I’m asleep.  It’s kinda scary. — subtract 1983 to send me email End Trans

Response:

Helps if you tell the dream. Helps to forget it. Really.  I’m not just being nosy. Ok, I am being nosy. But this does help.

hehehe…. I dreamed that I was a cop and that I got shot in the back in the restroom of a convenience store.  I was back there trying to put on a bullet proof vest because I knew this guy was gonna come into the bathroom and start shooting.  I got the vest on but he shot me in the small of the back anyway and I was still hurt pretty badly.  There was no one around to help me so I walked to the hospital myself hiding all the way to avoid the killer.  When I got to the hospital, my family was there waiting for me and they were worried.  Only it wasn’t my real family, it was the Keatons of Family Ties.  And instead of getting my gunshot wound fixed, I sat there in the waiting room talking to them. They were patting me on the back and hugging me and telling me everything was gonna be ok and stuff. And then before I woke up there was one more little part to the dream that was extremely disturbing to me and I don’t really think I should tell it in here. Needless to say, I was very upset when I woke up.  It was like half of the dream was a nightmare and the other half was really nice.  That coupled with the extreme vividness of detail that I’m able to recall about it made for a very disturbing day for me today.  And then finding out that I was sleepwalking also last night just disturbs me even more.

Response:

Funny you should mention squid though, I’ve just been reading up some on my old buddy Architeuthis.  I’m fascinated by the subject actually. squid… giant squid… man that is a lot of fried squid you could eat… yumm. Or fresh on sushi… yum yum… or on pizza…, or marinated in seafood salad…. ahhh squid… the possibilities of ways to eat them are endless… Fried Giant Squid… what a concept…

YEAH, there you go! Uh Kaelwyn, I like how she thinks…  and being that she’s over here with me, would you mind if I stole her affections from you?  :)

Response:

Da squid!  Ok, if Mike Ditka faced 22 giant squid in the super bowl who would win? I love those skits. Skits? I don’t know any skits. From quite a while back on the show Saturday Night Live they used to do these skits about Chicago sports fans and they always called the Bears "Da Bears" and the Bulls "Da Bulls".

Aha. But I’m a sleepy being and much missed SNL.  :(

Response:

Funny you should mention squid though, I’ve just been reading up some on

my old buddy Architeuthis.  I’m fascinated by the subject actually. squid… giant squid… man that is a lot of fried squid you could eat… yumm. Or fresh on sushi… yum yum… or on pizza…, or marinated in seafood salad…. ahhh squid… the possibilities of ways to eat them are endless… Fried Giant Squid… what a concept… Kaelwyn’s wife

Response:

Da squid!  Ok, if Mike Ditka faced 22 giant squid in the super bowl who would win? I love those skits. Skits? I don’t know any skits.

From quite a while back on the show Saturday Night Live they used to do these skits about Chicago sports fans and they always called the Bears "Da Bears" and the Bulls "Da Bulls". — subtract 1983 to send me email End Trans

Response:

Do you mean me or the squid?   Da squid. Da squid!  Ok, if Mike Ditka faced 22 giant squid in the super bowl who would win? I love those skits.

Skits? I don’t know any skits.

Response:

Do you mean me or the squid?   Da squid.

Da squid!  Ok, if Mike Ditka faced 22 giant squid in the super bowl who would win? I love those skits. — subtract 1983 to send me email End Trans

Response:

Funny you should mention squid though, I’ve just been reading up some on my old buddy Architeuthis.  I’m fascinated by the subject actually. Scary. Do you mean me or the squid?  

Da squid.

Response:

Funny you should mention squid though, I’ve just been reading up some on my old buddy Architeuthis.  I’m fascinated by the subject actually. Scary.

Do you mean me or the squid?   — subtract 1983 to send me email End Trans

Response:

Awwww. {{{Kaelwyn}}} It’ll fade out and get better, I’m sure. Least you didn’t dream about walking ankle deep in a bunch of squids… Oh great, now I can’t go to sleep tonite.   Funny you should mention squid though, I’ve just been reading up some on my old buddy Architeuthis.  I’m fascinated by the subject actually.

Scary.

Response:

yumm. Or fresh on sushi… yum yum… or on pizza…, or marinated in seafood salad…. ahhh squid… the possibilities of ways to eat them are endless… Fried Giant Squid… what a concept… YEAH, there you go! Uh Kaelwyn, I like how she thinks…  and being that she’s over here with me, would you mind if I stole her affections from you?  :) I saw her first.  :)

Would you consider letting me borrow her for awhile?

Response:

yumm. Or fresh on sushi… yum yum… or on pizza…, or marinated in seafood salad…. ahhh squid… the possibilities of ways to eat them are endless… Fried Giant Squid… what a concept… YEAH, there you go! Uh Kaelwyn, I like how she thinks…  and being that she’s over here with me, would you mind if I stole her affections from you?  :)

I saw her first.  :) — subtract 1983 to send me email End Trans

Response:

hehe… if you go eat Sushi with me Lisa… I’ll follow you everywhere… well at least to the nearest Sushi restaurant Kaelwyn’s wife

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Funny you should mention squid though, I’ve just been reading up some on my old buddy Architeuthis.  I’m fascinated by the subject actually. squid… giant squid… man that is a lot of fried squid you could eat… yumm. Or fresh on sushi… yum yum… or on pizza…, or marinated in seafood salad…. ahhh squid… the possibilities of ways to eat them are endless… Fried Giant Squid… what a concept… YEAH, there you go! Uh Kaelwyn, I like how she thinks…  and being that she’s over here with me, would you mind if I stole her affections from you?  :)

Response:

I saw her first.  :)

Does that mean you will eat Sushi with me…. yeahhh baby… Lisa … sorry you lost… him’s more fun… I can kiss him… hehe. Kaelwyn’s wife

Response:

okay… that’s a plan… how about we do that next year September, that is when my hubby is coming home.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I saw her first.  :) Does that mean you will eat Sushi with me…. yeahhh baby… Lisa … sorry you lost… him’s more fun… I can kiss him… hehe. Kaelwyn’s wife Hmmm… You may have a point.  How bout you bring him and I’ll bring mine and we’ll go to the Sushi restaurant and make them wait outside?  :)

Response:

The one in Arabellapark?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hehe… if you go eat Sushi with me Lisa… I’ll follow you everywhere… well at least to the nearest Sushi restaurant Kaelwyn’s wife Consider it done. I know a real good Sushi bar in M

My last love letter.

Question:

Hi Patrick (and Zoe, if you are reading the ng): Just wanted to say "good luck" to both of you as your lives goes to the next step. I hope you have both learned and grown from your relationship, and, as hard (and sad) as it is to break up, life does go on and we *can* learn from the past. Time really does heal all — please give each other (and yourselves) time to heal. I wish you both the best. And Zoe, please feel free to post here if we can help with your struggle with CD — Rebecca

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Zoe, If you are reading this, then I assume you are leaving to go home. I wanted to, at least, tell you to have a good trip home and that I hope you have a safe flight. I have a confession to make. I have been lying to you for a while now. I didn’t tell you these lies to shield you from the truth or to hide anything from you. I lied to you because I hurt. I lied to you when I wrote that I regret meeting you and that you were a waste of time. The truth is that have given me some of the happiest moments of my life.  I lied to you when I said that you are no longer what I want. You are. You always will be. Like I have said so many times to you before, I have neither pride nor defenses where you are concerned. I do have regrets about us, though. I regret never having danced with you. I regret not sharing walks and sunsets and not slowing down and creating more special moments like our night at the lake. I regret letting life overtake love; for letting the day to day become the norm. I regret not sitting down with you and opening up, not revealing my weaknesses and fears and asking your help with them. I regret letting you go. I know that I have wounded you deeply. I wish there were something I could do or say that would bring peace, but I know there isn’t. I know that you have raw feelings toward me. All that I can ask is your forgiveness. I carry with me every day the agony of knowing that I hurt the one person I love most. When I look back on the past month, it all seems like a blur to me. I feel like I have been sleepwalking through the days. I have hollow space inside me that you used to occupy. Nobody and nothing cannot fill it. I will go to my grave knowing that you are the one and only love of my lifetime. Regardless of where life takes us, near or far, or whom you and I end up with, you will be there with me; my best friend, in a special place inside me that I visit when I need strength. I hope that you will remember the feel my hand on your forehead on days when you don’t feel right. It will always be reaching out for you. When I am near my end and look back on my life I will remember my time with you and smile. You will be my secret love and my secret best friend for a lifetime. You gave me so much in the time we were together. You have changed my world. I am a much deeper, more caring man because of you. I recognize from having you in my life that true love is unconditional, that love is the absence of fear, that when you love completely nothing matters but the connection of two hearts. You taught me that love is the joining of souls, not bodies. You have shown me truth in my life and should I die, I will know that I was loved once. Thank you for letting me experience your soul and its warmth. I know you don’t want to hear from me and that you want to move on with other people to other places. But, I couldn’t have you leave without letting you know these things, should I not see you again. My thoughts and all of my heart will be with you Saturday, wishing that I were there in body and that none of this had happened. I love you with all of my heart, Zoe. Please be safe. Patrick

Response:

Zoe, If you are reading this, then I assume you are leaving to go home. I wanted to, at least, tell you to have a good trip home and that I hope you have a safe flight. I have a confession to make. I have been lying to you for a while now. I didn’t tell you these lies to shield you from the truth or to hide anything from you. I lied to you because I hurt. I lied to you when I wrote that I regret meeting you and that you were a waste of time. The truth is that have given me some of the happiest moments of my life.  I lied to you when I said that you are no longer what I want. You are. You always will be. Like I have said so many times to you before, I have neither pride nor defenses where you are concerned. I do have regrets about us, though. I regret never having danced with you. I regret not sharing walks and sunsets and not slowing down and creating more special moments like our night at the lake. I regret letting life overtake love; for letting the day to day become the norm. I regret not sitting down with you and opening up, not revealing my weaknesses and fears and asking your help with them. I regret letting you go. I know that I have wounded you deeply. I wish there were something I could do or say that would bring peace, but I know there isn’t. I know that you have raw feelings toward me. All that I can ask is your forgiveness. I carry with me every day the agony of knowing that I hurt the one person I love most. When I look back on the past month, it all seems like a blur to me. I feel like I have been sleepwalking through the days. I have hollow space inside me that you used to occupy. Nobody and nothing cannot fill it. I will go to my grave knowing that you are the one and only love of my lifetime. Regardless of where life takes us, near or far, or whom you and I end up with, you will be there with me; my best friend, in a special place inside me that I visit when I need strength. I hope that you will remember the feel my hand on your forehead on days when you don’t feel right. It will always be reaching out for you. When I am near my end and look back on my life I will remember my time with you and smile. You will be my secret love and my secret best friend for a lifetime. You gave me so much in the time we were together. You have changed my world. I am a much deeper, more caring man because of you. I recognize from having you in my life that true love is unconditional, that love is the absence of fear, that when you love completely nothing matters but the connection of two hearts. You taught me that love is the joining of souls, not bodies. You have shown me truth in my life and should I die, I will know that I was loved once. Thank you for letting me experience your soul and its warmth. I know you don’t want to hear from me and that you want to move on with other people to other places. But, I couldn’t have you leave without letting you know these things, should I not see you again. My thoughts and all of my heart will be with you Saturday, wishing that I were there in body and that none of this had happened. I love you with all of my heart, Zoe. Please be safe. Patrick

Response:

?sleepwalking with eyes open

Question:

Hi, I am wondering, is it possible to sleep walk with your eyes open? ___________________________________________________________________________ ___ Posted Via Binaries.net = SPEED+RETENTION+COMPLETION = http://www.binaries.net

Response:

"dk" <dkane…@acronet.net> wrote in message

news:3C8ECAE2.5CE06465@acronet.net… > Hi, > I am wondering, is it possible to sleep walk with your eyes open?

From what I’ve been told, its the only way I’ve ever done it…

Response:

dk <dkane…@acronet.net> wrote: >I am wondering, is it possible to sleep walk with your eyes open?

I think that’s normally the case. Tom

Response: