Sequorel

Question:

Can Sequorel alone be used to treat PLMD? — -Jamie

Response:

"jamie dolan (AKA OCD Boy)" <ja…@ashwoodinc.com> wrote: >Can Sequorel alone be used to treat PLMD?

Do you mean Seroquel? What’s PLMD? I recently started taking Seroquel for chronic insomnia. Been on it about two months and it’s worked well, though recently showing signs of losing effectiveness. I may have to bump the dose. Seroquel’s primary use is as an anti-psychotic, and dosage for that purpose runs 800mg plus. I’m taking 200mg for insomnia, so there’s room to grow. Dick Evans

Response:

On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 22:04:01 GMT, Richard Evans wrote: >"jamie dolan (AKA OCD Boy)" wrote: >>Can Sequorel alone be used to treat PLMD? >Do you mean Seroquel?

"Sequorel" is probably what he read from his doctors’ Rx. <wink> >What’s PLMD?

Periodic Limb Movement Disorder. Also known as "Restless Legs Syndrome."

Response:

> Do you mean Seroquel?

YES. > What’s PLMD?

Perodic limb movment disorder, similar to rls, but only happens while you are in bed sleeping. >I recently started taking Seroquel > for chronic insomnia. Been on it about two months and it’s worked > well, though recently showing signs of losing effectiveness. I may > have to bump the dose. > Seroquel’s primary use is as an anti-psychotic, and dosage for that > purpose runs 800mg plus. I’m taking 200mg for insomnia, so there’s

Yes. Do you worry about the side effects at all? Did you experiance and side effects from it? Jamie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> room to grow. > Dick Evans

Response:

"jamie dolan (AKA OCD Boy)" <ja…@ashwoodinc.com> wrote: >Do you worry about the side effects at all?

According to two doctors, it’s one of the safest meds you can take. No addiction, no withdrawal. >Did you experiance and side effects from it?

Sort of, but it’s good news and bad news. When it works really well, I sleep like a log, but for eleven hours. Not ten, not twelve, but eleven. I suppose I could get up earlier, but I’m self employed and set my own schedules and it’s been so long since I had a decent night’s sleep I’m indulging myself, When I do get up, there’s no grogginess and I’m energetic the rest of the day. Dick

Response:

What was your underlying problem you are treating with the medication? If you dont mind me asking?? — -Jamie "Richard Evans" <info…@mindspring.com> wrote in message

news:a8jus01q4k0v6t5q6333dt8pqucmqslhoj@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "jamie dolan (AKA OCD Boy)" <ja…@ashwoodinc.com> wrote: >>Do you worry about the side effects at all? > According to two doctors, it’s one of the safest meds you can take. No > addiction, no withdrawal. >>Did you experiance and side effects from it? > Sort of, but it’s good news and bad news. When it works really well, I > sleep like a log, but for eleven hours. Not ten, not twelve, but > eleven. I suppose I could get up earlier, but I’m self employed and > set my own schedules and it’s been so long since I had a decent > night’s sleep I’m indulging myself, When I do get up, there’s no > grogginess and I’m energetic the rest of the day. > Dick

Response:

"jamie dolan (AKA OCD Boy)" <ja…@ashwoodinc.com> wrote: >What was your underlying problem you are treating with the medication?

Chronic intractable insominia, over ten years duration. Treated by a sleep specialist with many meds with mixed results. I began taking the Seroquel after Ambien and Prosomm both stopped working. Even chloral hydrate (knockout drops) didn’t work. I was sleeping 1-2 hours a night and spending my days as a sleep-deprived zombie. Dick Evans

Response:

Is tardive dyskenesia a side effect? I have a problem much like yours but the antipsychotics rather scare me…. ?

Response:

On 29 Dec 2004 15:00:24 GMT, Moonbunn wrote: >Is tardive dyskenesia a side effect?

It’s listed in the WARNINGS section of the prescribing information, along with neuroleptic malignant syndrome and hyperglycemia.

Response:

> Is tardive dyskenesia a side effect?

Yes it is. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have a problem much like yours but the antipsychotics rather scare > me…. > ?

Response:

Is this sleep disorder?

Question:

Hi all, During my few sleepless nights (no disorder here) I noticed my wife sleeps on her back with her knees bent and soles of her feet flat on the bed a lot. It seems this can last for hours. After I "correct" her pose she will usualy adopt the same position a while later. Her other favorite pose is on the side in a baby position. When she’s falling asleep, her body will usualy jerk for a while, legs most of all. I wouldn’t make a problem of this, but she never seems to get enough sleep, she’s always tired when she gets up, she needs at least 9 hours of sleep, and rarely has "energy" during the day. We usualy go to sleep late at around 1am. She doesn’t snore but she does breathe thru the mouth. Sometimes she has problems breathing, due to "blocked" upper chest. The most problematic are her legs, calves in particular, which are usualy sore and feel heavy. We’re running semi regularly (very slowly), but she doesn’t seem to be getting any fitter and her legs are sore afterwards. I checked these simptoms on the internet and it looks similar to RLS (Restless Legs Sindrome) and PLMD (Periodic Limb Movement Disorder), but it’s also not the same. She’s planning on getting her blood checked (tiredness) but I thought I’d also try with the sleep disorder NG. Does this look like a sleep disorder? Do the problems I mentioned look related to this sleep disorder? Does anyone have any comment or suggestion? Thanks for any info.

Response:

 During my few sleepless nights (no disorder here) I noticed my wife sleeps > on her back with her knees bent and soles of her feet flat on the bed a > lot. > It seems this can last for hours. After I "correct" her pose she will > usually > adopt the same position a while later. Her other favourite pose is on the > side in a baby position. When she’s falling asleep, her body will usually > jerk for a while, legs most of all.

if she has jerky legs while she sleeps she’s probably suffering from Restless Leg Syndrome (RLS) or Periodic Limb Movement Disorder (PLMD or PLMS) and should be checked out by a certified sleep specialist  - it can be extremely disruptive to sleep and therefore quality of life. The disrupted sleep will be what causes her to feel tired and fatigued during the day — Beth in Australia (I am not a qualified medical professional and unless I quote sources anything posted by me is my opinion only and you should always check with your doctor) ============================================= Sleep Disorders Newsgroup FAQ Website http://talhost.net/sleep Newsgroup archives http://www.talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm =============================================

Response:

"Bojan" <fzm…@NOsiol.netSPAM> writes: > Does this look like a sleep disorder? Do the problems I mentioned look > related to this sleep disorder? Does anyone have any comment or > suggestion?

You certainly can’t rule out a sleep disorder based on these symptoms, but you can’t diagnose it that way either, really.   The most compelling symptom is daytime sleepiness indicating something is up. Talk with your family doctor about it and ask for a referral for a sleep study to be done.  An overnight stay in a sleep clinic will monitor her sleep for a night and give hard data to confirm or deny a diagnosis of any sort.  The sleep study will typically be read by a board certified sleep specialist.

Response:

Restless Leg Syndrome

Question:

My brother suffers from Restless Leg Syndrome.  Is there anyone out there who is also a sufferer…What do you do to relieve the symptoms?

Response:

In article <5cbgns$…@news1-alterdial.uu.net>, jo…@connectnet.com (Jo & Art) says: >My brother suffers from Restless Leg Syndrome.  Is there anyone out >there who is also a sufferer…What do you do to relieve the symptoms?

I have had such problems, but I also knew (from previous sleep study) that I was already dealing with Sleep Apnea.  I had earlier not tolerated CPAP well, and insurance had restricted surgery options, so I have been using a ’snore-guard’ oral device for a couple of years.   Over the past several months, however, the night-time ‘crawling’ sensation had become common, and nighttime driving was very difficult.  Another study showed presence of Apnea even with the oral device, and extremely active leg movement, which further degraded sleep. I’ve been on Smart CPAP (brand new) for about two months now.  The most noticable difference for me was that after a few days, the leg discomfort became much less frequent, and now, I rarely experience it. So for me, anyway, it appears that the reduced quality of sleep over time was somehow affecting me to cause the restless legs.  Whether this is a common thing or not, I don’t know.

Response:

Click on this link for information. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/somno/rls.htm#RLS treatment Others may respond. Continue to read this group. MPOG — http://home.istar.ca/~ogrady/ O’Grady’s Arcadia: large pond tips email    ogr…@istar.ca

Response:

Jo & Art wrote: > My brother suffers from Restless Leg Syndrome.  Is there anyone out > there who is also a sufferer…What do you do to relieve the symptoms?

About two years ago the Modern Maturity magazine did a well written story about Restless Legs Syndrome that described the symptoms that I’ve encountered all of my life. I’m in my 40’s and it’s been a "living hell" trying to cope. Just ‘knowing’ what I had, made me feel better. As a child I had difficulty falling asleep as my legs were always feeling "crampy" and "restless." Riding my bicycle help alot but sitting in a classroom wasn’t easy. After subscribing to the "Nightwalkers" newsletter that is published by the RLS Foundation, I read about Dr. Arthur S. Walters, who has devoted much of his time researching RLS. I wrote Dr. Walters a letter and his staff arranged for me to drive for an appointment and evaluation. (It was a long, 500 mile drive.) Dr. Walters diagnosed my condition as R.L.S. and placed me on medication which has alleviated 99% of the symptoms and aggravations of R.L.S. I was also surprised to learn from Dr. Walters that many R.L.S. victims also suffer from A.D.D. (Thirty-some years later this all made sense to me.) I encourage anyone who has these symptoms to visit the RLS website at: http://www.rls.org/ and subscribe to the "Nightwalkers" newsletter. You can also write to: Dr. Arthur S. Walters, M.D. Department of Neurology Robert Wood Johnson University Hospital UMDNJ-Robert Wood Johnson Medical School One Robert Wood Johnson Place, PO Box 2601 New Brunswick, New Jersey 08903-2601 Best Wishes to everyone. Please post any follow-up messages to the group because I cannot receive them.                         Kevin [ Via EDTec Anon Remail Service: <infos...@edtec.com> ]

Response:

Want to share my ways of coping with RLS and am trying to post with newsgroup (But may not be doing this right–sorry I’m a newbie)  Here goes!!

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Response:

I said I was a newbie.  I goofed.  Sorry. What I wanted to share were the ways I have coped with RLS over the years.  I have tried heating pad and elastic support knee-highs (available at drug stores) The best for me is the Pollenex Deep Heat Back Massager (it is 28 inches long) used under my legs in bed with heat and massage turned on.  I’ve been troubled since I was a child and couldn’t sit still at any function that was close to bedtime.  My husband and I now go to matinee theatre.  I’m faithful about taking my vitamins as I’ve read that it might be a deficiency and I limit the caffeine intake.  I’m 58 years old and have read that this condition gets worse with old age–I can hardly wait!#$@***%

Response:

Jo & Art wrote: > My brother suffers from Restless Leg Syndrome.  Is there anyone out > there who is also a sufferer…What do you do to relieve the symptoms?

The new book, SLEEP THIEF, restless legs syndrome, is fully described at www.virtualjax.com/galaxybooks.  At the RLSF web site you can join a cyber support group which deals extensively with RLS.  www.rls.org

Response:

In article <32EE7474.1…@worldnet.att.net>, Paul Delage <PMDel…@worldnet.att.net> wrote: > Jo & Art wrote: > > My brother suffers from Restless Leg Syndrome.  Is there anyone out > > there who is also a sufferer…What do you do to relieve the symptoms?

My husband has obstructive sleep apnea (severe) as well as RLS. Has your brother had episodes of apnea or loud snoring along with the RLS? Hubbie is on a BiPAP machine now and his RLS is much reduced. He used to have it every night and now it’s only once or twice a week. It may have something to do with his oxygen intake while sleeping. Eight years ago, I used to have to get out of bed and sleep elsewhere because not only was he gasping for breath, he was literally throwing himself out of bed at night. It was like sleeping with an extremely loud mexican jumping bean! <g> We used to call it "night-time flailing." Believe you me, our lives have become SO much more normal since he went on BiPAP! <g> Might be something to check out. Deb — She, who MUST be obeyed.

Response:

Paul Delage <PMDel…@worldnet.att.net> wrote: >Jo & Art wrote: >> My brother suffers from Restless Leg Syndrome.  Is there anyone out >> there who is also a sufferer…What do you do to relieve the symptoms? >The new book, SLEEP THIEF, restless legs syndrome, is fully described at >www.virtualjax.com/galaxybooks.  At the RLSF web site you can join a >cyber support group which deals extensively with RLS.  www.rls.org

Thank you, Paul, for your suggestion about the book.  I have passed on the title to my brother and he said that he will be reading it.  Jo

Response:

Bill Kepler <billkep…@mauigateway.com> wrote: >restless…@edtec.com wrote: >> Jo & Art wrote:

<parts snipped> >> Dr. Walters diagnosed my condition as R.L.S. and placed me on >> medication which has alleviated 99% of the symptoms and aggravations >> of R.L.S. I was also surprised to learn from Dr. Walters that many >> R.L.S. victims also suffer from A.D.D. (Thirty-some years later this all >> made sense to me.) >>                         Kevin >> [ Via EDTec Anon Remail Service: <infos...@edtec.com> ] >Gee, Kevin, why didn’t you tell us the name of the medication?  I’d be >very interested to hear about it. >Aloha, Bill

I’d be interested to know of the name of the meds also. Wouldn’t be Klonopin by any chance?? BG

Response:

That’s what I’d like to find out – Both my husband and I believe he has Restless Leg Syndrome, but can’t find out that much about it nor what you can do for it.  He has tried warm to hot baths to soak his legs and stretching/walking, but they don’t seem to help very much.  We’d certainly like to find something!  The doctors here don’t seem to know much more than we do.  HELP!

Response:

Does anybody know a cure or help for Restless Leg Syndrome that does not include going to a doctor?  

Response:

musta…@gulftel.com wrote: > Does anybody know a cure or help for Restless Leg Syndrome that does > not include going to a doctor?

Check out the web site WWW.RLS.COM.  I had to go to the neurologist who had heard of this.  I have had it my entire life, but the Sinimet works well.

Response:

Nope musta…@gulftel.com wrote in article <3432caad.6691…@news.gulftel.com>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Does anybody know a cure or help for Restless Leg Syndrome that does > not include going to a doctor?  

Response:

> Does anybody know a cure or help for Restless Leg Syndrome that does > not include going to a doctor?  

Eliminate caffeine from your diet.  Stretch out thoroughly before retiring.

Response:

Hi, In article <610pt9$…@titan.cs.unc.edu>, j…@cs.unc.edu (John Eyles) writes: >> Does anybody know a cure or help for Restless Leg Syndrome that does >> not include going to a doctor?   >Eliminate caffeine from your diet.  Stretch out thoroughly before retiring.

In some cases (20% or so), RLS results from other treatable problems, such as  iron deficiency (especially in older people) or vitamin devidiency. Changes in some medications and pregnancy can also result in RLS symptoms. So a daily vitamin/mineral supplement might be something to try. Best wishes, Sally in Seattle (JSo…@aol.com) Coauthor, with Dr. Ralph Pascualy, of Snoring and Sleep Apnea: Personal and Family Guide to Diagnosis and Treatment, published in 1996 by Demos Vermande, NY.  Available through bookstores, ISBN # 0-939957-82-5.  

Response:

A.G. (Tony) Warren wrote: > Nope > musta…@gulftel.com wrote in article > <3432caad.6691…@news.gulftel.com>… > > Does anybody know a cure or help for Restless Leg Syndrome that does > > not include going to a doctor?

ok here is my solution & beleieve me it works!! I found this cure by accident, let me bore you with the details ok?!!! In the winter I get REALLY dry itchy skin & I will usually try anything to stop the itching. So I got this cream from Marks & Spencers up here in Canada & it is a Bergamont with Royal Jelly. Well when i used to put it on my legs this twitching that also used to bother me stopped! I never knew there was such a thing as restless leg I thought it was just me. Well the cream ran out  & Iwas in a  herbal store & I overheard someone talking about the same problem of twitchy legs!!! When I told her about my cure she said yes that would work because of the ROYAL JELLY which comes from Bees, it relaxes the muscles. So get to a herbal store & ask for something with royal jelly (preferably a cream) I have been taking Ginseng with Royal Jelly it works ok but not as good as the cream. So did you make it to the end??? Good get  yourself some cream!! Now to find what I was looking for on this newsgroup!! Know of any links that will give advice to help me sleep during the day for working nightshift?? I have been thinking of building a completely soundproof room so it is good and quiet & dark but I’m not sure how to soundproof it & get fresh air in there!!! So any links or advice would be great. Thanks, Frank!!

Response:

I would be interested in visiting with others with RLS (restless leg Syndrome).  Although I have had this since I was a child (I am 43 now), I was just started on some medication which seems to help.  It was so bad for a while that I was also getting it in my arms as well.  I would like to talk to others with this annoying affliction. May be interested in starting a support group in the Tampa Bay area. Any assistantce or references to other web sites would be greatly appreciated. Jerold Crawford CRAWM…@GTE.net

Response:

I also have RLS. What medication were you put on? I have tries Sinemet, opiates, and Nuerontin. Sinemet and opiates (Tylenol w/Codeine) are by far the most beneficial. Sometimes Benzodiazepine tranquilizers work well too. Doctors are stingy with the stuff, but it certainly improves the quality of life. On Sun, 06 Apr 1997 18:04:05 -0700, Jerold Crawford/Jeff McMullin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<CRAWM…@GTE.NET> wrote: > I would be interested in visiting with others with RLS (restless leg > Syndrome).  Although I have had this since I was a child (I am 43 now), > I was just started on some medication which seems to help.  It was so > bad for a while that I was also getting it in my arms as well.  I would > like to talk to others with this annoying affliction. > May be interested in starting a support group in the Tampa Bay area. > Any assistantce or references to other web sites would be greatly > appreciated. > Jerold Crawford > CRAWM…@GTE.net

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Response:

I have suffered from it for years, off and on. Just started taking Paxil, an anti-depressant/anti-anxiety medication and have had no problems with restless legs since. Perhaps anxiety or depression may be at the source of the problem. Something to think about. Ope.

Response:

I have never tried permax, but have had RLS for over 10 years.  I have had very good results with Klonopin for three years and recently added Requip (Klonopin wasn’t enough anymore).  I have had no side affects from either med (they’re a life saver).  Good luck

Response:

   A good friend of mine has been taking Permax for RLS for about a year. It has transformed his life!!—but it has required an ever-increasing dosage.  At this point he is taking 0.35 milligrams per day.   Unfortunately, he is now experiencing increasing side-effects and wonders if others have experienced these same side-effects.  Two major ones are: a feeling of "dopeyness-dizziness-fogginess, . . . ";  another is that the Permax acts very much like a sleeping medication.  Recently he has experienced unexplained tiredness but is not sure that this is realated to the Permax.    Any thoughts much appreciated.  If you don’t mind, also reply by e-mail to: p…@virginia.edu. — Paul N. Schatz Chemistry Department University of Virginia p…@virginia.edu

Response:

Paul N. Schatz wrote: >    A good friend of mine has been taking Permax for RLS for about a year. > It has transformed his life!!—but it has required an ever-increasing > dosage.  At this point he is taking 0.35 milligrams per day. > Unfortunately, he is now experiencing increasing side-effects and wonders > if others have experienced these same side-effects.  Two major ones are: a > feeling of "dopeyness-dizziness-fogginess, . . . ";  another is that the > Permax acts very much like a sleeping medication. (…snip…)

I would suspect the dosage increase.  If he has the same problems after 10 days, I would suggest that he tell his physician.  Like trying a new medcation, and having to wait to see what happens, this can also occur with "old" meds but new dosage changes. — Robin in Montana

Response:

Has anyone had any experience with this problem ?

Response:

Need to hear from anyone who has suffered from or heard of this problem. Thanks

Response:

In article <gfirth.3.00301…@voyageur.ca>, gfi…@voyageur.ca (gfirth) wrote: > Need to hear from anyone who has suffered from or heard of this problem.

I suffer from restless legs syndrom.  How can I be of help? — Geoff Selig Office and Information Technology Group Computing Services

Response:

There are many of us on the Internet struggling with this debilitating sleep disorder. So many, in fact, that one of us has begun an RLS Cybersupport Group. To subscribe to this free, valuable (and sanity saving) mailing list send an e-mail message to Melr…@express.ca. You can also check out the RLS Foundation’s wonderful web page at http://www.rls.org. Full of links to information on this under-diagnosed disorder.

Response:

I have been to a sleep disorder clinic and found out I may have restless leg syndrome.  I am confused and want to talk to someone who has it. Please e-mail me at amc add…@aol.com or post something here. Have been on medication for years for insomnia.  By the way my addiction is to medicine, it’s to All My Children.

Response:

Amc addict wrote: > I have been to a sleep disorder clinic and found out I may have restless > leg syndrome.  I am confused and want to talk to someone who has it. > Please e-mail me at amc add…@aol.com or post something here. Have been > on medication for years for insomnia.  By the way my addiction is to > medicine, it’s to All My Children.since you are on aol

go to keyword  online psych then scrool down to sleep disorders and hit the message board we ahve a folder for rls and on sat nite 9-10 i host a chat on sleep disorders feel free to attend and share jim

Response:

Some individuals with this disorder have posted to this newsgroup that they have tried drugs such as Neurontin and Klonopin.  Although I would dearly love to be able to sleep soundly for a change, I always prefer to find a natural, holistic solution where possible.  Has anyone found such a remedy for period limb movement/restless leg syndrome?  (Note that I’ve tried melatonin and warm milk to no avail, and am working on a vigorous exercise program in hopes it will help, although it’s only been eight months.) Sleepless in DC, Bonnie

Response:

In 1988 I was diagnosed at Mayo Clinic with Nocturnal Myaclonus,and/or RLS. A mild dosage of Sinemet was prescribed and worked. Have been on it ever since. I was sleeping only 1 hr. a nite for many months prior to the medication, and the first nite on it I was able to get my first good 8 hr. sleep. Now I sleep between 5 to 6 hrs. Still better than 1.

Response:

ckrim86…@aol.com (CKrim86449) wrote: >In 1988 I was diagnosed at Mayo Clinic with Nocturnal Myaclonus,and/or >RLS. >A mild dosage of Sinemet was prescribed and worked. Have been on it ever >since. I was sleeping only 1 hr. a nite for many months prior to the >medication, and the first nite on it I was able to get my first good 8 hr. >sleep. Now I sleep between 5 to 6 hrs. Still better than 1.

What family of meds does Sinemet belong and what is your mild dosage.  Do you still have the twitchesjerks or are they just milder. Klonopin appears to help but the above doesn’t necessarily go away! Any info appreciated.

Response:

I just spoke to the dr again today and she said shes sure its from not taking the blood transfusions I take Geritol and I’m taking 2 ultram and 4 hrs later 2 more before I go to bed and that helps alot. Zelda

Response:

"Tal" <goer…@hotmail.com> wrote in news:2h3f7fF8k08aU1@uni-berlin.de: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> this sounds more like Periodic Limb Movement Disorder than RLS. >> I have RLS, only its not in my legs much.  I have a severe case >> and it also involves my torso, but mostly its my arms.  I take a >> muscle relaxer that seems to control it rather well unless I am >> overly stressed (which I have been lately).  Its called Zanaflex, >> and the doc has me taking three 4mg tablets 3 times a day, last >> one at bedtime. >> When the meds arent enough, I have to exercise my arms a lot in a >> short time span, and then take a hot shower and let the water >> beat down on my arms and kind of massage them. >> I too have to keep getting up when it effects me badly, but I >> usually crochet or watch tv or play a computer game. >> I have no idea what started my RLS, but its been here for at >> least several years now.  If I can be of further help, feel free >> to ask. >> Wendy  (who has been AWOL for quite a while and am trying to >> catch up)

I have PLMD and RLS.  Doc told me  I had an atypical severe case of RLS in addition to the PLMD.  Guess I’m just lucky that way or something. Wendy —

Response:

this sounds more like Periodic Limb Movement Disorder than RLS. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have RLS, only its not in my legs much.  I have a severe case and it > also involves my torso, but mostly its my arms.  I take a muscle > relaxer that seems to control it rather well unless I am overly > stressed (which I have been lately).  Its called Zanaflex, and the doc > has me taking three 4mg tablets 3 times a day, last one at bedtime. > When the meds arent enough, I have to exercise my arms a lot in a short > time span, and then take a hot shower and let the water beat down on my > arms and kind of massage them. > I too have to keep getting up when it effects me badly, but I usually > crochet or watch tv or play a computer game. > I have no idea what started my RLS, but its been here for at least > several years now.  If I can be of further help, feel free to ask. > Wendy  (who has been AWOL for quite a while and am trying to catch up)

Response:

Zelda4…@webtv.net wrote in news:17346-407769AD-507@storefull-3135.bay.webtv.net: > I used to have restless legs maybe twice a year, now it’s every > night. Does anyone here have it and how do they deal with it? > I had some pretty serious surgery the end of last Jan. the doctor > wanted me to have 2 units of blood and when I hesitated he said to > take Geritol to build myself back up and  I was wondering if that > started the restless legs. I lost 35 lbs and was delighted but now > every time I get up from not sleeping I eat which is not good for > me. I would appreciate any advice. > Thank you Zelda

I have RLS, only its not in my legs much.  I have a severe case and it also involves my torso, but mostly its my arms.  I take a muscle relaxer that seems to control it rather well unless I am overly stressed (which I have been lately).  Its called Zanaflex, and the doc has me taking three 4mg tablets 3 times a day, last one at bedtime. When the meds arent enough, I have to exercise my arms a lot in a short time span, and then take a hot shower and let the water beat down on my arms and kind of massage them. I too have to keep getting up when it effects me badly, but I usually crochet or watch tv or play a computer game.   I have no idea what started my RLS, but its been here for at least several years now.  If I can be of further help, feel free to ask. Wendy  (who has been AWOL for quite a while and am trying to catch up) —

Response:

On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 20:27:41 -0700, I think Zelda456 gave this opinion: > I used to have restless legs maybe twice a year, now it’s every night. > Does anyone here have it and how do they deal with it? I had some pretty > serious surgery the end of last Jan. the doctor wanted me to have 2 units > of blood and when I hesitated he said to take Geritol to build myself back > up and  I was wondering if that started the restless legs. I lost 35 lbs > and was delighted but now every time I get up from not sleeping I eat > which is not good for me. I would appreciate any advice. > Thank you Zelda

Zelda, I have had RLS for several years. I could usually deal with it just by walking some until it subsided, that would take care of it for a while anyway. Over the last six months I have had a bunch of neuro symptoms come up, enough to be off work since August. (I’m wondering if I have MS)About the  end of Jan. the RLS together with pain from peripheral neuropathy was keeping me from sleeping more than about an hour at a time, really messing me up. I saw a neurologist a couple of weeks ago, he started me on Mirapex (pramipexole dihydrochloride), an anti Parkinson’s drug. It really has helped the symptoms of RLS. Together with Neurontin for the neuropathy has gotten me up to 4 hours of sleep at a time most nights. I don’t know if this would work for everyone, but it sure has helped me. Rory — Outside of a dog, a book is man’s best friend. ……Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. …..Groucho

Response:

Zelda4…@webtv.net wrote: > I used to have restless legs maybe twice a year, now it’s every night. > Does anyone here have it and how do they deal with it? > I had some pretty serious surgery the end of last Jan. the doctor wanted > me to have 2 units of blood and when I hesitated he said to take Geritol > to build myself back up and  I was wondering if that started the > restless legs. I lost 35 lbs and was delighted but now every time I get > up from not sleeping I eat which is not good for me. > I would appreciate any advice. > Thank you Zelda

   Go to http://www.rlshelp.org

Response:

Thank you very much Rob this site and all the sites they telll about has answered so many of my questions. Zelda

Response:

I am very sorry to hear that.  I used to have that.  It nearly drove me crazy from sleep depravation.  To answer your question, I found this: Is there any treatment? Treatment for restless legs syndrome is symptomatic. Massage and application of cold compresses may provide temporary relief. Medications such as temazepam, levodopa/carbidopa, bromocriptine, pergolide mesylate, oxycodone, propoxyphene, and codeine are effective in relieving the symptoms. However, many of these medications have side effects. Current research suggests correction of iron deficiency may improve symptoms for some patients. from the NIH web site (http://www.ninds.nih.gov/health_and_medical/disorders/restless_doc.htm).   You can also check out local support groups in your area: http://www.rls.org/find_support/. <http://www.rls.org/find_support/>Good luck! Zelda4…@webtv.net wrote: >I used to have restless legs maybe twice a year, now it’s every night. >Does anyone here have it and how do they deal with it? >I had some pretty serious surgery the end of last Jan. the doctor wanted >me to have 2 units of blood and when I hesitated he said to take Geritol >to build myself back up and  I was wondering if that started the >restless legs. I lost 35 lbs and was delighted but now every time I get >up from not sleeping I eat which is not good for me. >I would appreciate any advice. >Thank you Zelda

– +———————- Nothing important was ever achieved without someone taking a chance.  - H. Jackson Brown, Jr. Douglas Sur

Response:

I used to have restless legs maybe twice a year, now it’s every night. Does anyone here have it and how do they deal with it? I had some pretty serious surgery the end of last Jan. the doctor wanted me to have 2 units of blood and when I hesitated he said to take Geritol to build myself back up and  I was wondering if that started the restless legs. I lost 35 lbs and was delighted but now every time I get up from not sleeping I eat which is not good for me. I would appreciate any advice. Thank you Zelda

Response:

REM Behavior disorder

Question:

Does anyone have any experience with REM behavior disorder and treatment for it? I’m going for a sleep study next week but have been told that I most likely have RBD and possibly sleep apnea. When I start dreaming my body doesn’t seem to realize that it’s just a dream so I act out my dreams. A couple of times I’ve actually leapt out of bed when I was dreaming . I ‘ve gotten a few nasty bumps and bruises and even hit my wife in my sleep while swinging my arms around in my sleep. I used to think that sleep walking was not actually possible but, what I’m doing seems to be worse as I’m injuring myself and others. Usually it’s not so extreme that I actually jump out of bed but just end up exhausted in the morning because my wife says my legs and arms are constantly moving all night. The doctor mentioned he plans on trying clonazepam if the results of the sleep study are RBD. Does anyone have any experience with this drug and what are the dosage ranges? My family doc has had me on ambien for a few weeks but he and the sleep doc say this is not good long term and besides although it helps me get to sleep and I’ve only jumped out of bed once since while taking it, it apparently does not prevent my body from acting out during sleep it just reduces it somewhat. I still wake up tired. Sorry didn’t mean to be so long winded I just wanted to know if there’s anyone else out there who’s been through this crazy stuff. TIA  One other thing I’ve read that something like 40% of the people who suffer from RBD eventually are diagnosed with Parkinson’s. I ‘m hoping that the "eventually" means decades because I’m only 43! Anyone offer any data on this?

Response:

This may be interesting: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/03344/249468.stm (I seem to have the reverse problem – my motor control gets "switched off" unexpectedly during waking times, which can be quite awkward! —  David Ruether  r…@cornell.edu  http://www.ferrario.com/ruether "Old Enough to Know Better" <SpamSu…@NoSpam.com> wrote in message news:a7TSb.98227$f97.93757@fe3.columbus.rr.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Does anyone have any experience with REM behavior disorder and treatment for > it? > I’m going for a sleep study next week but have been told that I most likely > have RBD and possibly sleep apnea. > When I start dreaming my body doesn’t seem to realize that it’s just a dream > so I act out my dreams. A couple of times I’ve actually leapt out of bed > when I was dreaming . I ‘ve gotten a few nasty bumps and bruises and even > hit my wife in my sleep while swinging my arms around in my sleep. I used to > think that sleep walking was not actually possible but, what I’m doing seems > to be worse as I’m injuring myself and others. Usually it’s not so extreme > that I actually jump out of bed but just end up exhausted in the morning > because my wife says my legs and arms are constantly moving all night. The > doctor mentioned he plans on trying clonazepam if the results of the sleep > study are RBD. Does anyone have any experience with this drug and what are > the dosage ranges? My family doc has had me on ambien for a few weeks but he > and the sleep doc say this is not good long term and besides although it > helps me get to sleep and I’ve only jumped out of bed once since while > taking it, it apparently does not prevent my body from acting out during > sleep it just reduces it somewhat. I still wake up tired. > Sorry didn’t mean to be so long winded I just wanted to know if there’s > anyone else out there who’s been through this crazy stuff. > TIA >  One other thing I’ve read that something like 40% of the people who suffer > from RBD eventually are diagnosed with Parkinson’s. I ‘m hoping that the > "eventually" means decades because I’m only 43! Anyone offer any data on > this?

Response:

My husband has something remarkably similar. He chooses not to get treatment. So, we deal with it an dhave a VERY large bed. Two of my three children have this, and occaisionally I have experienced it as well. I remember dreaming tha tthe house was burning down and ruinning to the bedroom window—only problem was that I was at my Mother’s house for a visit, and I ran to HER window, where the city street lights cast an orange glow—the "fire" in my dream. Mostly though I only experience PLMD (periodic limb movement disorder—the arms and legs making movements while asleep) and RLS (restless leg syndrome–the ‘leg jerk" thing as youf all asleep), some of which sounds like your situation. Many folks have several of these disorders together and don’t realize it. Be sure to tellyou doctor if you have itchyor "creepy" feeling legs, even during the day. I attributed MY itchiness to varicose veins before I knew better. You aren’t the first or onlyperson to beat up their spouse in bed:  I once gave my husband a black eye—and woke up the moment the knuckle contanted the eye socket on his face. He was NOT a happy camper!!! I remember dreaming that someone was knockingon the door—and was very frustrated that no one would get out of bed and answer it, so I woke myself up to do just that, to discover that my hand, flung over my head in sleep, was knocking on the headboard. Clonazepam is a narcotic, and I had a very bad reaction to it (projectile vomiting, though I found out that I was initially given an extremely high dose. Sometimes VERY small doses of these are effective, and I would reccomend starting small and upping the prescription under doctor supervision if the initial small dose does not work well—but your sleep Doc will be the best source of information on this) , though most folks have wonderful results with it. There are other drugs in that family to try as well, so if it does not work for you, be willing to suggest to the doctor that you try somethign else. Good Luck Lis "Old Enough to Know Better" <SpamSu…@NoSpam.com> wrote in message news:a7TSb.98227$f97.93757@fe3.columbus.rr.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Does anyone have any experience with REM behavior disorder and treatment for > it? > I’m going for a sleep study next week but have been told that I most likely > have RBD and possibly sleep apnea. > When I start dreaming my body doesn’t seem to realize that it’s just a dream > so I act out my dreams. A couple of times I’ve actually leapt out of bed > when I was dreaming . I ‘ve gotten a few nasty bumps and bruises and even > hit my wife in my sleep while swinging my arms around in my sleep. I used to > think that sleep walking was not actually possible but, what I’m doing seems > to be worse as I’m injuring myself and others. Usually it’s not so extreme > that I actually jump out of bed but just end up exhausted in the morning > because my wife says my legs and arms are constantly moving all night. The > doctor mentioned he plans on trying clonazepam if the results of the sleep > study are RBD. Does anyone have any experience with this drug and what are > the dosage ranges? My family doc has had me on ambien for a few weeks but he > and the sleep doc say this is not good long term and besides although it > helps me get to sleep and I’ve only jumped out of bed once since while > taking it, it apparently does not prevent my body from acting out during > sleep it just reduces it somewhat. I still wake up tired. > Sorry didn’t mean to be so long winded I just wanted to know if there’s > anyone else out there who’s been through this crazy stuff. > TIA >  One other thing I’ve read that something like 40% of the people who suffer > from RBD eventually are diagnosed with Parkinson’s. I ‘m hoping that the > "eventually" means decades because I’m only 43! Anyone offer any data on > this?

Response:

On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 20:19:25 -0500, Lis wrote: >Clonazepam is a narcotic

Clonazepam locks onto the GABA receptors. Narcotics lock into the opiate receptors. Big, big difference. OTOH, I was rather amused to find that a large pharmaceutical maker (who should know better!) put in the MSDS for bulk methylphenidate (Ritalin) that it was a "narcotic." Bigger, bigger difference.

Response:

Thanks for your comments. I went for the sleep study but, I only slept mabye a couple hours all night with very little REM sleep which means I didn’t display any real symptoms. I haven’t had a follow up with the doctor yet so we’ll see what ’s next.

Response:

Lis wrote: > Clonazepam is a narcotic, and I had a very bad reaction to it (projectile > vomiting, though I found out that I was initially given an extremely high > dose.

It is not a narcotic.  It is an anti-seizure med of the benzodiazepine family.

Response:

RESTLESS LEGS SYNDROME AND PERIODIC LIMB MOVEMENT DISORDER

Mirapex is a medication used to treat Parkinson’s disease and restless legs syndrome (RLS). Buy mirapex restless leg syndrome and feel better today!

Question:

You’re welcome… I’m going through hell right now because I am 21 weeks pregnant and the combination of hormone changes and my blood volume increasing (thus using up lots of my iron) is making my life a living hell. I spend 11 hours a night in bed and still wake up exhausted every day.  My PLMD medicine Mirapex is unknown if it’s safe in pregnancy so I take the smallest amount I can get by on.  But sometimes my lack of sleep gets so bad that it leads to depression and anxiety.  I keep having to increase my medicine Mirapex just to get the same level of exhaustion in the mornings as my blood volume and metabolism continue to increase. I do take iron when I can but my  Mirapex and my pregnancy both make me nauseous.  I did not throw up once with my first pregnancy but now here I am at 21 weeks and I still am throwing up every other morning.  The Mirapex and the exhaustion make the nausea much worse.  The Mirapex also causes my nose to totally stop up every night about one hour after I take it.  My nose stuffs up with out my having to lay down.  I can not sleep at all when my nose is totally blocked and my saline irrigation with my water pic and grossan tip does not help at all for this.  As a result I’ve been having to use OTC nose spray every night.. that is a very bad thing but I make it a little better by only using one squirt in one nostril each night so each side of my nose gets almost a 48 hour break between doses.. but still it’s all connected up there and I do find myself needing more nose spray.. but I am also needing more Mirapex and that adds to the stuffiness. Last two nights I gave up and increased my dose yet again. now taking 3.25 mg of Mirapex at night.. pre pregnancy I got by on .5 mg.   I’m going to have to see my neurologist.. maybe he can give me ambien as it is a safer class drug for pregnancy and if I take it maybe I can cut back a bit on the Mirapex. My lack of sleep is causing me to be sick and depressed.  My whole family got infected with C. Jejuni thanks to our puppy, my daughter got over it in one day, my husband got over it in three days but I’m still fighting it 9 days later and am having to take anti-biotics for it.  I just can not fight off illness very well when I am this sleep deprived. On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:34:08 GMT, "Lis" <liont…@ptd.net> alt.support.sleep-disorder   : – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Thanks for the info. Anything that helps….. >Cheers >Lis ><nos…@nospam.com> wrote in message >news:ats2pv8nvsjhqpqal3s8kprmege05bbrlf@4ax.com… >> you only absorb about 10% of the Iron in a standard multi vitamin and >coffee cuts you Iron >> absorbtion by 50%.  Try something like Generic Niferex to really boost >your iron level.  Best to get >> your serum Ferritin checked before or shortly after you start iron therapy >though. >> Hemoglobin levels of iron MEAN ABSOLUTELY NOTHING when it comes to PLMD. >Many doc’s do not >> understand this.  You must know you IRON STORAGE LEVELS as measured by >serum ferritin.  My >> hemoglobin levels are always fine thanks to my Niferex but my serum >Ferritin was only 16 when it was >> measured.  For PLMD they want you to get that level to 50.  20 is >considered normal. >> On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:24:35 GMT, "Lis" <liont…@ptd.net> >alt.support.sleep-disorder   : >> >You know, that’s really interesting about the iron connection….I was >> >severely anemic as a child………. Time to get out the old >mulit-vitamins, >> >I suppose… >> >I REALLY hope someone bites and does a decent study, and we get some >benefit >> >out of it. Not looking forward to that "gets worse in old age" thing. I’m >> >only 41, fer gosh sakes. >> >Lis >> ><nos…@nospam.com> wrote in message >> >news:qlc1pvce33n46eers1edu97gijtqenrk7f@4ax.com… >> >> RESTLESS LEGS SYNDROME AND PERIODIC LIMB MOVEMENT DISORDER >> >> The National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke (NINDS), >the >> >> National Institute on Aging (NIA), the National Heart, Lung, and Blood >> >> Institute, and the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) encourage >> >> investigator-initiated research grant applications to study restless >> >> legs syndrome (RLS) and periodic limb movement disorder (PLMD). The >> >> etiologies of these disorders are unknown, although there is evidence >> >> that central dopamine mechanisms are involved. Research should be aimed >> >> at an understanding of the pathogenesis of RLS and PLMD that will lead >> >> to new forms of treatment. The intent of this announcement is to >> >> intensify investigator-initiated research, to attract new investigators >> >> to the field, and to enhance interdisciplinary approaches to research >in >> >> these areas. >> >> RESEARCH OBJECTIVES >> >> Background >> >> Restless legs syndrome is a common neurological disorder characterized >> >> by unpleasant sensations of the legs and an urge to move them for >> >> relief. Because symptoms are intensified by inactivity and lying down, >> >> RLS patients often have difficulty falling asleep and staying asleep. >> >> Left untreated, RLS causes exhaustion and fatigue, which can affect >> >> occupational performance, social activities, and family life. Most >> >> prevalence estimates are around 2-5% of the population, although many >> >> more may be affected because the disorder is often not diagnosed. >Severe >> >> RLS is more common in the elderly, affecting an estimated 10-11%, >> >> although symptoms may develop at any age. The etiology of RLS probably >> >> involves central dopamine mechanisms, and both dopaminergic agents and >> >> dopamine agonists have been used to treat symptoms. RLS is also >> >> associated with iron deficiency, indicated by low ferritin levels. >These >> >> levels appear to follow a circadian cycle, and are at their lowest at >> >> night when RLS symptoms are the worst. The frequency of RLS during late >> >> stage pregnancy is increased, which may be related to iron deficiency. >> >> Many people with RLS report a family history of the disorder, but the >> >> exact mode of inheritance is unknown. >> >> It has been estimated that about 80% of RLS patients also have periodic >> >> limb movement disorder (PLMD), or nocturnal myoclonus, which is >> >> characterized by repetitive stereotyped movements of the limbs, >> >> primarily the legs, during sleep. These movements typically occur every >> >> 20 to 40 seconds, and may be associated with repeated arousal, and >> >> severely fragmented sleep. In a study of patients with insomnia, PLMD >or >> >> RLS was diagnosed in 33% of patients older than 60 years as compared to >> >> 18% of those 40 to 60 years and 7% of those 20 to 40 years of age. Like >> >> RLS, the etiology of PLMD may involve a central dopamine mechanism, >> >> because it also responds to dopaminergic drugs.  However, treatment >with >> >> dopaminergic agonists can augment the symptoms, possibly by a >> >> continuation of the underlying progressive inhibition of dopaminergic >> >> neuronal activity.  Current investigations indicate that both RLS and >> >> PLMD occur in a substantial number of patients suffering from >> >> Parkinson’s disease and narcolepsy, two other disorders thought to >> >> involve central dopamine mechanism. Greater understanding of the role >of >> >> dopamine systems in the etiology of these all of these disorders may >> >> provide a key to new treatment and prevention strategies.

Response:

Thanks for the info. Anything that helps….. Cheers Lis <nos…@nospam.com> wrote in message

news:ats2pv8nvsjhqpqal3s8kprmege05bbrlf@4ax.com… > you only absorb about 10% of the Iron in a standard multi vitamin and

coffee cuts you Iron > absorbtion by 50%.  Try something like Generic Niferex to really boost

your iron level.  Best to get > your serum Ferritin checked before or shortly after you start iron therapy though. > Hemoglobin levels of iron MEAN ABSOLUTELY NOTHING when it comes to PLMD. Many doc’s do not > understand this.  You must know you IRON STORAGE LEVELS as measured by serum ferritin.  My > hemoglobin levels are always fine thanks to my Niferex but my serum

Ferritin was only 16 when it was > measured.  For PLMD they want you to get that level to 50.  20 is considered normal. > On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:24:35 GMT, "Lis" <liont…@ptd.net>

alt.support.sleep-disorder   : – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >You know, that’s really interesting about the iron connection….I was > >severely anemic as a child………. Time to get out the old mulit-vitamins, > >I suppose… > >I REALLY hope someone bites and does a decent study, and we get some benefit > >out of it. Not looking forward to that "gets worse in old age" thing. I’m > >only 41, fer gosh sakes. > >Lis > ><nos…@nospam.com> wrote in message > >news:qlc1pvce33n46eers1edu97gijtqenrk7f@4ax.com… > >> RESTLESS LEGS SYNDROME AND PERIODIC LIMB MOVEMENT DISORDER > >> The National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke (NINDS), the > >> National Institute on Aging (NIA), the National Heart, Lung, and Blood > >> Institute, and the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) encourage > >> investigator-initiated research grant applications to study restless > >> legs syndrome (RLS) and periodic limb movement disorder (PLMD). The > >> etiologies of these disorders are unknown, although there is evidence > >> that central dopamine mechanisms are involved. Research should be aimed > >> at an understanding of the pathogenesis of RLS and PLMD that will lead > >> to new forms of treatment. The intent of this announcement is to > >> intensify investigator-initiated research, to attract new investigators > >> to the field, and to enhance interdisciplinary approaches to research in > >> these areas. > >> RESEARCH OBJECTIVES > >> Background > >> Restless legs syndrome is a common neurological disorder characterized > >> by unpleasant sensations of the legs and an urge to move them for > >> relief. Because symptoms are intensified by inactivity and lying down, > >> RLS patients often have difficulty falling asleep and staying asleep. > >> Left untreated, RLS causes exhaustion and fatigue, which can affect > >> occupational performance, social activities, and family life. Most > >> prevalence estimates are around 2-5% of the population, although many > >> more may be affected because the disorder is often not diagnosed. Severe > >> RLS is more common in the elderly, affecting an estimated 10-11%, > >> although symptoms may develop at any age. The etiology of RLS probably > >> involves central dopamine mechanisms, and both dopaminergic agents and > >> dopamine agonists have been used to treat symptoms. RLS is also > >> associated with iron deficiency, indicated by low ferritin levels. These > >> levels appear to follow a circadian cycle, and are at their lowest at > >> night when RLS symptoms are the worst. The frequency of RLS during late > >> stage pregnancy is increased, which may be related to iron deficiency. > >> Many people with RLS report a family history of the disorder, but the > >> exact mode of inheritance is unknown. > >> It has been estimated that about 80% of RLS patients also have periodic > >> limb movement disorder (PLMD), or nocturnal myoclonus, which is > >> characterized by repetitive stereotyped movements of the limbs, > >> primarily the legs, during sleep. These movements typically occur every > >> 20 to 40 seconds, and may be associated with repeated arousal, and > >> severely fragmented sleep. In a study of patients with insomnia, PLMD or > >> RLS was diagnosed in 33% of patients older than 60 years as compared to > >> 18% of those 40 to 60 years and 7% of those 20 to 40 years of age. Like > >> RLS, the etiology of PLMD may involve a central dopamine mechanism, > >> because it also responds to dopaminergic drugs.  However, treatment with > >> dopaminergic agonists can augment the symptoms, possibly by a > >> continuation of the underlying progressive inhibition of dopaminergic > >> neuronal activity.  Current investigations indicate that both RLS and > >> PLMD occur in a substantial number of patients suffering from > >> Parkinson’s disease and narcolepsy, two other disorders thought to > >> involve central dopamine mechanism. Greater understanding of the role of > >> dopamine systems in the etiology of these all of these disorders may > >> provide a key to new treatment and prevention strategies.

Response:

you only absorb about 10% of the Iron in a standard multi vitamin and coffee cuts you Iron absorbtion by 50%.  Try something like Generic Niferex to really boost your iron level.  Best to get your serum Ferritin checked before or shortly after you start iron therapy though. Hemoglobin levels of iron MEAN ABSOLUTELY NOTHING when it comes to PLMD.  Many doc’s do not understand this.  You must know you IRON STORAGE LEVELS as measured by serum ferritin.  My hemoglobin levels are always fine thanks to my Niferex but my serum Ferritin was only 16 when it was measured.  For PLMD they want you to get that level to 50.  20 is considered normal. On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:24:35 GMT, "Lis" <liont…@ptd.net> alt.support.sleep-disorder   : – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->You know, that’s really interesting about the iron connection….I was >severely anemic as a child………. Time to get out the old mulit-vitamins, >I suppose… >I REALLY hope someone bites and does a decent study, and we get some benefit >out of it. Not looking forward to that "gets worse in old age" thing. I’m >only 41, fer gosh sakes. >Lis ><nos…@nospam.com> wrote in message >news:qlc1pvce33n46eers1edu97gijtqenrk7f@4ax.com… >> RESTLESS LEGS SYNDROME AND PERIODIC LIMB MOVEMENT DISORDER >> The National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke (NINDS), the >> National Institute on Aging (NIA), the National Heart, Lung, and Blood >> Institute, and the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) encourage >> investigator-initiated research grant applications to study restless >> legs syndrome (RLS) and periodic limb movement disorder (PLMD). The >> etiologies of these disorders are unknown, although there is evidence >> that central dopamine mechanisms are involved. Research should be aimed >> at an understanding of the pathogenesis of RLS and PLMD that will lead >> to new forms of treatment. The intent of this announcement is to >> intensify investigator-initiated research, to attract new investigators >> to the field, and to enhance interdisciplinary approaches to research in >> these areas. >> RESEARCH OBJECTIVES >> Background >> Restless legs syndrome is a common neurological disorder characterized >> by unpleasant sensations of the legs and an urge to move them for >> relief. Because symptoms are intensified by inactivity and lying down, >> RLS patients often have difficulty falling asleep and staying asleep. >> Left untreated, RLS causes exhaustion and fatigue, which can affect >> occupational performance, social activities, and family life. Most >> prevalence estimates are around 2-5% of the population, although many >> more may be affected because the disorder is often not diagnosed. Severe >> RLS is more common in the elderly, affecting an estimated 10-11%, >> although symptoms may develop at any age. The etiology of RLS probably >> involves central dopamine mechanisms, and both dopaminergic agents and >> dopamine agonists have been used to treat symptoms. RLS is also >> associated with iron deficiency, indicated by low ferritin levels. These >> levels appear to follow a circadian cycle, and are at their lowest at >> night when RLS symptoms are the worst. The frequency of RLS during late >> stage pregnancy is increased, which may be related to iron deficiency. >> Many people with RLS report a family history of the disorder, but the >> exact mode of inheritance is unknown. >> It has been estimated that about 80% of RLS patients also have periodic >> limb movement disorder (PLMD), or nocturnal myoclonus, which is >> characterized by repetitive stereotyped movements of the limbs, >> primarily the legs, during sleep. These movements typically occur every >> 20 to 40 seconds, and may be associated with repeated arousal, and >> severely fragmented sleep. In a study of patients with insomnia, PLMD or >> RLS was diagnosed in 33% of patients older than 60 years as compared to >> 18% of those 40 to 60 years and 7% of those 20 to 40 years of age. Like >> RLS, the etiology of PLMD may involve a central dopamine mechanism, >> because it also responds to dopaminergic drugs.  However, treatment with >> dopaminergic agonists can augment the symptoms, possibly by a >> continuation of the underlying progressive inhibition of dopaminergic >> neuronal activity.  Current investigations indicate that both RLS and >> PLMD occur in a substantial number of patients suffering from >> Parkinson’s disease and narcolepsy, two other disorders thought to >> involve central dopamine mechanism. Greater understanding of the role of >> dopamine systems in the etiology of these all of these disorders may >> provide a key to new treatment and prevention strategies.

Response:

You know, that’s really interesting about the iron connection….I was severely anemic as a child………. Time to get out the old mulit-vitamins, I suppose… I REALLY hope someone bites and does a decent study, and we get some benefit out of it. Not looking forward to that "gets worse in old age" thing. I’m only 41, fer gosh sakes. Lis <nos…@nospam.com> wrote in message

news:qlc1pvce33n46eers1edu97gijtqenrk7f@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> RESTLESS LEGS SYNDROME AND PERIODIC LIMB MOVEMENT DISORDER > The National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke (NINDS), the > National Institute on Aging (NIA), the National Heart, Lung, and Blood > Institute, and the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) encourage > investigator-initiated research grant applications to study restless > legs syndrome (RLS) and periodic limb movement disorder (PLMD). The > etiologies of these disorders are unknown, although there is evidence > that central dopamine mechanisms are involved. Research should be aimed > at an understanding of the pathogenesis of RLS and PLMD that will lead > to new forms of treatment. The intent of this announcement is to > intensify investigator-initiated research, to attract new investigators > to the field, and to enhance interdisciplinary approaches to research in > these areas. > RESEARCH OBJECTIVES > Background > Restless legs syndrome is a common neurological disorder characterized > by unpleasant sensations of the legs and an urge to move them for > relief. Because symptoms are intensified by inactivity and lying down, > RLS patients often have difficulty falling asleep and staying asleep. > Left untreated, RLS causes exhaustion and fatigue, which can affect > occupational performance, social activities, and family life. Most > prevalence estimates are around 2-5% of the population, although many > more may be affected because the disorder is often not diagnosed. Severe > RLS is more common in the elderly, affecting an estimated 10-11%, > although symptoms may develop at any age. The etiology of RLS probably > involves central dopamine mechanisms, and both dopaminergic agents and > dopamine agonists have been used to treat symptoms. RLS is also > associated with iron deficiency, indicated by low ferritin levels. These > levels appear to follow a circadian cycle, and are at their lowest at > night when RLS symptoms are the worst. The frequency of RLS during late > stage pregnancy is increased, which may be related to iron deficiency. > Many people with RLS report a family history of the disorder, but the > exact mode of inheritance is unknown. > It has been estimated that about 80% of RLS patients also have periodic > limb movement disorder (PLMD), or nocturnal myoclonus, which is > characterized by repetitive stereotyped movements of the limbs, > primarily the legs, during sleep. These movements typically occur every > 20 to 40 seconds, and may be associated with repeated arousal, and > severely fragmented sleep. In a study of patients with insomnia, PLMD or > RLS was diagnosed in 33% of patients older than 60 years as compared to > 18% of those 40 to 60 years and 7% of those 20 to 40 years of age. Like > RLS, the etiology of PLMD may involve a central dopamine mechanism, > because it also responds to dopaminergic drugs.  However, treatment with > dopaminergic agonists can augment the symptoms, possibly by a > continuation of the underlying progressive inhibition of dopaminergic > neuronal activity.  Current investigations indicate that both RLS and > PLMD occur in a substantial number of patients suffering from > Parkinson’s disease and narcolepsy, two other disorders thought to > involve central dopamine mechanism. Greater understanding of the role of > dopamine systems in the etiology of these all of these disorders may > provide a key to new treatment and prevention strategies.

Response:

RESTLESS LEGS SYNDROME AND PERIODIC LIMB MOVEMENT DISORDER The National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke (NINDS), the National Institute on Aging (NIA), the National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute, and the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) encourage investigator-initiated research grant applications to study restless legs syndrome (RLS) and periodic limb movement disorder (PLMD). The etiologies of these disorders are unknown, although there is evidence that central dopamine mechanisms are involved. Research should be aimed at an understanding of the pathogenesis of RLS and PLMD that will lead to new forms of treatment. The intent of this announcement is to intensify investigator-initiated research, to attract new investigators to the field, and to enhance interdisciplinary approaches to research in these areas. RESEARCH OBJECTIVES Background Restless legs syndrome is a common neurological disorder characterized by unpleasant sensations of the legs and an urge to move them for relief. Because symptoms are intensified by inactivity and lying down, RLS patients often have difficulty falling asleep and staying asleep. Left untreated, RLS causes exhaustion and fatigue, which can affect occupational performance, social activities, and family life. Most prevalence estimates are around 2-5% of the population, although many more may be affected because the disorder is often not diagnosed. Severe RLS is more common in the elderly, affecting an estimated 10-11%, although symptoms may develop at any age. The etiology of RLS probably involves central dopamine mechanisms, and both dopaminergic agents and dopamine agonists have been used to treat symptoms. RLS is also associated with iron deficiency, indicated by low ferritin levels. These levels appear to follow a circadian cycle, and are at their lowest at night when RLS symptoms are the worst. The frequency of RLS during late stage pregnancy is increased, which may be related to iron deficiency. Many people with RLS report a family history of the disorder, but the exact mode of inheritance is unknown. It has been estimated that about 80% of RLS patients also have periodic limb movement disorder (PLMD), or nocturnal myoclonus, which is characterized by repetitive stereotyped movements of the limbs, primarily the legs, during sleep. These movements typically occur every 20 to 40 seconds, and may be associated with repeated arousal, and severely fragmented sleep. In a study of patients with insomnia, PLMD or RLS was diagnosed in 33% of patients older than 60 years as compared to 18% of those 40 to 60 years and 7% of those 20 to 40 years of age. Like RLS, the etiology of PLMD may involve a central dopamine mechanism, because it also responds to dopaminergic drugs.  However, treatment with dopaminergic agonists can augment the symptoms, possibly by a continuation of the underlying progressive inhibition of dopaminergic neuronal activity.  Current investigations indicate that both RLS and PLMD occur in a substantial number of patients suffering from Parkinson

Restless legs cause sleepless nights

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Inhibiting isoenzyme CYP2D6,  or the one linked to the dopamine uptake transporter pump is also NOT a kewl thing to do to somebody, since  8% of caucasions is born deficient in isoenzyme CYP2D6 and its believed Parkinson’s is associated with a  CYP2D6 deficiency!!! Even though that particular isoenzyme is believed to be over  1 billion years old,   knowledge about it was non-existent,  before it was discover SSRI’s INHIBIT it and cause lots of problems for the people it inhibits it in…but even 10 years after SSRI inhibition of it came to "sciences" attention knowledge is still rudimentary. Fascination article, thanks for posting it. I was 14 well before SSRI’s were invented but I was put on a tri-cyclic

antidepressant and many anti psychotics and both lithium and tegratal.  Luckily the childrens’ home

that my neglectful parents warehoused me in took me off all the meds at the age of 16.  But how much

damage had been done?  I have SEVERE PLMD and I am the only one in my family that has it.  Anti

psychotics have the opposite mechanism of action as the medications I now have to take to reduce the

symptoms of my PLMD. It is well known that SSRI’s and anti psychotics aggravate PLMD.

Someday they will be able to do genotyping of your isoenzymes to determine best medication for you.so they rx ones toxic to you casue you don’t have the isoenzymes to metabolize them. right now they have to prescribe it,  and wait and see your reactions…then they know you can’t metabolize it AFTER damage is done. Studies indicate if you had  significant EPS on SSRI’s,  you are in deep shit if you become psychotic  because the EPS on the SSRI’s sets you up for EPS on AP’s,  big time. My having RLS and the anemia all my life indicates I already had some sort of deficiency made me a poor metabolizer before the SSRI’s….but the SSRI’s doubled or quadrupled my problems metabilizing these drugs. What is the difference between a stimulant and a dopamine agonist? Stimulant is plan B  for me.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Inhibiting isoenzyme CYP2D6,  or the one linked to the dopamine uptake transporter pump is also NOT a kewl thing to do to somebody, since  8% of caucasions is born deficient in isoenzyme CYP2D6 and its believed Parkinson’s is associated with a  CYP2D6 deficiency!!! Even though that particular isoenzyme is believed to be over  1 billion years old,   knowledge about it was non-existent,  before it was discover SSRI’s INHIBIT it and cause lots of problems for the people it inhibits it in…but even 10 years after SSRI inhibition of it came to "sciences" attention knowledge is still rudimentary. Fascination article, thanks for posting it. I was 14 well before SSRI’s were invented but I was put on a tri-cyclic antidepressant and many anti psychotics and both lithium and tegratal.  Luckily the childrens’ home that my neglectful parents warehoused me in took me off all the meds at the age of 16.  But how much damage had been done?  I have SEVERE PLMD and I am the only one in my family that has it.  Anti psychotics have the opposite mechanism of action as the medications I now have to take to reduce the symptoms of my PLMD. It is well known that SSRI’s and anti psychotics aggravate PLMD. Someday they will be able to do genotyping of your isoenzymes to determine best medication for you.so DON’T  rx ones toxic to you casue you don’t have the isoenzymes to metabolize them. right now they have to prescribe it,  and wait and see your reactions…then they know you can’t metabolize it AFTER damage is done. Studies indicate if you had  significant EPS on SSRI’s,  you are in deep shit if you become psychotic  because the EPS on the SSRI’s sets you up for EPS on AP’s,  big time. My having RLS and the anemia all my life indicates I already had some sort of deficiency made me a poor metabolizer before the SSRI’s….but the SSRI’s doubled or quadrupled my problems metabilizing these drugs. What is the difference between a stimulant and a dopamine agonist? Stimulant is plan B  for me.

Response:

HEALTH SENSE Restless legs cause sleepless nights Restless legs cause sleepless nights By Judy Foreman, 9/9/2003 So, the patient goes to a neurologist. Every night, he tells the doctor, he gets these creepy, crawly feelings in his legs as he starts to drift off to sleep. It’s not pain, exactly, but an irresistible urge to move his legs. He gets up, does a few deep knee bends. That helps. But as soon as the patient goes back to bed, the creepy-crawlies start up again. Sometimes, his legs start kicking periodically, too. So, he gets up and walks, for hours, until exhaustion overwhelms his twitchy legs and frazzled psyche. With luck, he gets a few hours of sleep. "What have I got?" the frustrated patient asks. "I don’t know," the doctor replies. "But I’ve got it, too." Sad to say, this is a true story that a patient once told Dr. John Winkelman, medical director of the Sleep Health Center at Brigham and Women’s Hospital. Most people, including many doctors, have never heard of Restless Legs Syndrome, although this under-diagnosed neurological disorder ruins the sleep — and the quality of life — of an estimated 20 million Americans. "But people are going to hear a lot more about this disorder in the next couple of years," Winkelman said, "because we now recognize how common it is and we’re beginning to get some insights into its underlying causes." Scientists haven’t filled in all the blanks, but they have a pretty good idea of what goes wrong in the brains of people with Restless Legs Syndrome, thanks to brain scans and autopsies of RLS patients. An iron deficiency in parts of the brain that control movement, called the substantia nigra, the caudate nucleus and the putamen, may impair the ability of brain cells to make the neurotransmitter dopamine, said Dr. Wayne Hening, clinical associate professor of neurology at the Robert Wood Johnson Medical School in New Jersey. The result is creepy-crawly sensations in the legs and the urge to move the legs. These symptoms come on with rest or immobility and are relieved — transiently — by movement. Many people with Restless Legs Syndrome also have what’s known as "periodic limb movements of sleep," or uncontrollable kicking during sleep. "Of all the disorders affecting sleep, this is the one that produces the most chronic sleep loss, year after year," said psychologist Richard Allen of the Center for the Study of Restless Legs at Johns Hopkins Bayview Medical Center. His research shows that "quality of life is as impaired in these patients as in patients with other chronic diseases like hypertension, arthritis, diabetes, depression, angina or a history of heart attack."Restless Legs Syndrome is a life-wrecker. It often runs in families, suggesting a possible genetic factor, and can start in childhood. "These people can’t relax. They’re tired all the time," said Jerry Siegel, professor of psychiatry at the Neuropsychiatric Institute of the University of California at Los Angeles and chief of neurobiology research at the Sepulveda VA Hospital. Decade after decade of insufficient sleep is just plain "discouraging," said Marge Fuhr, 67, a retired schoolteacher in Boulder, Colo. "I’m just totally exhausted." For Mimi Lebien, 43, a self-employed medical historian in Covington, La., the worst part is the sense of "shame that comes with people who can’t sleep." Like Furh, Lebien is a board member of the Restless Legs Syndrome Foundation. Her struggle with RLS began when she was 7 or 8, on a long family car trip when she made her brother and sister lie down on the floor of the backseat because "I needed to kick and kick and kick. . . . I kicked my legs halfway across New Mexico." Spouses suffer, too. Anita Raj, 41, of Bedford said that, before her husband, Tim Bemis, 42, took medication for his RLS and periodic leg movements, he would get two to three hours of sleep per night. "He used to move every six seconds. I used to count `one, one thousand, two one thousand . . .’ It would keep me awake." Even now that he can sleep six or seven hours, she said, "there are probably 10 nights a month where we sleep in separate beds." So, what to do if you believe you are among the millions with RLS? First, if your regular doctor can’t help, contact a neurologist or sleep clinic. You’ll probably be given blood tests for iron levels. If these tests show low iron in your blood, taking oral iron (ferritin) may help. (Don’t do this on your own. If you take too much iron, you can develop a dangerous condition called hemochromatosis, or iron overload, which can cause cardiac and other problems.) If your blood test is normal, however, you still may be iron-deficient in the brain. In this case, oral iron probably won’t help, but researchers are now trying to determine whether giving RLS patients iron intravenously will. The low iron levels that can lead to RLS can have several triggers, including any condition that leads to persistent anemia, pregnancy, stomach surgery, kidney failure and dialysis. Certain antidepressants can act as triggers, too — those like Prozac (the so-called SSRIs) that boost serotonin levels in the brain. Don’t quit taking SSRIs on your own, but talk to your doctor about switching to an antidepressant that works differently, or adding RLS medications to your regimen. If iron supplementation and simple measures like avoiding alcohol, caffeine and sleep deprivation don’t help, the next step is to take medications that boost dopamine activity in the brain. The three most effective are — Requip (ropinirole), Mirapex (pramipexole) and Permax (pergolide), all approved for Parkinson’s disease. (There are no drugs yet approved specifically for RLS.) Sinemet (carbidopa-levodopa), another Parkinson’s drug, is also used sometimes for Restless Legs Syndrome, but it sometimes can make symptoms worse or appear earlier in the day. Another dopamine-booster, Sumanirole, not yet on the market, is in clinical trials now. For more information on the trial, call 617-527-3501, ext. 115). Opiates (painkillers) also may help, including Percocet (oxycodone and acetaminophen) and Tylenol-3 (acetaminophen and codeine). None of these drugs is likely to provide total relief, but if they help you get five to seven hours of sleep a night instead of two or three, that’s huge. So don’t suffer. If you think you have RLS, see a doctor; preferably, as Mimi Lebien of Louisiana puts it, one "who takes you seriously."

PLMD

Question:

What’s PLMD? — Andy Alkaline http://www.mentaldimensions.com Mental Dimensions – Warped Minds Can Come Here for Humor Satire, Parody, Dementia

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can you get PLMD from taking wellbutrin?

Response:

What’s PLMD?

Periodic Limb Movement Disorder AKA hand tremors. My husband takes it and he does get tremors from time to time.

Response:

Hmmm… I have that sometimes… I thought it was nerves… I’ve been taking Stelazine for the past 11 years… Now they tell me that I could get… it start with a "t"… I don’t see too many posts here regarding stelazine. Anybody have experience with it? — Andy Alkaline http://www.mentaldimensions.com Mental Dimensions – Warped Minds Can Come Here for Humor Satire, Parody, Dementia

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What’s PLMD? Periodic Limb Movement Disorder AKA hand tremors. My husband takes it and he does get tremors from time to time.

Response:

Hmmm… I have that sometimes… I thought it was nerves… I’ve been taking Stelazine for the past 11 years… Now they tell me that I could get… it start with a "t"… I don’t see too many posts here regarding stelazine. Anybody have experience with it?

They are most likely refering to some kind of TD which is tardive dyskenisia (probably mispelled but it will sound out fine and is close enough to look up). If you are showing signs of this your medication should be IMMEDIATELY reviewed. It can be permanent. If you have decent medical coverage there are anti-psychotics that are less likely to cause it such as zyprexa or serequil. When i say immediately don’t stop taking your drugs tomorrow but make sure it is dealt with in the next week or two ok? it isn’t dangerous in the vast majority of cases but it can be VERY annoying. They may offer you a drug that reduces these movements. I’ve take it myself (cogentin). However if you have been on the drug for so long without problems you are a more likely candidate for TD and not extrapyrmidial effects which is what cogenten should be used for. (i don’t take anything that requires it now….i have taken CPZ, Nozinane and Haldol as "emergency" drugs over the years for when i have a real freakout…i have an anxiety level that will not go away sometimes…i needed the cogenten with the haldol, but i didn’t bother with it for long, too many side effects. While i still keep some Nozinane around the house i don’t use it all that often, although it is helpful if i do feel overwhelmed. I don’t take it for a psychosis so how i use it can be quite different from how others do and is not a suggestion of use) Marcie

Response:

Periodic Limb Movement Disorder

Question:

A freind of mine has been dx’d with that. Is that ever dx’d when someone has TS,  or vice versa.

Response:

PLMD is, yes, sometimes diagnosed with TS concurrently.  It’s common in ADHD. Roger D. Freeman, M.D. "All Star Gal" <allstar…@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:vJFka.15218$4P1.1329274@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> A freind of mine has been dx’d with that. > Is that ever dx’d when someone has TS,  or vice versa.

Response:

Your Sleep Test Results

Question:

> I don’t know if they have one.  I don’t even have an appointment yet as

the hospital is still > transcribing the orders sent from my doctors (ENT) office.  Once the

orders are received by the > sleep study clinic they will call and give me an appointment.  I

understand that I also have to be > interviewed by the hospital doctor before they will accept me and that I

may not be accepted for a > sleep study because I have nasal polyps.  All I know for sure is that the

appointments for sleep > studies are already reaching into April.

they will have a cancellation list, I don’t know of any place that doesn’t have people cancel their appointmets because something else comes up.  When they give you your appoitnment date, ask if you can get in sooner, and then ask if they can get you in if someone else cancels……you can often get in much faster that way cause ppl cancel appointments all the time. — Beth in Australia =================== FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://www.anchorweb.com.au/sleepdisorders this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles

Response:

> Whoa, am I the only who noticed the nasal polyps comment? What reason did they > give you for the part your nasal polyps play in a not accepted status?

Mike i figured they just wanted to check that out first….but i dont’ see the sleep centre denying a sleep study based on that one way or the other…..likely just the uneducated ENT made an assumption? — Beth in Australia =================== FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://www.anchorweb.com.au/sleepdisorders this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles

Response:

> When >they give you your appoitnment date, ask if you can get in sooner, and then >ask if they can get you in if someone else cancels……you can often get in >much faster that way cause ppl cancel appointments all the time.

That’s a fact…the sleep lab I went to has only 6 beds.  The first time I was scheduled 2 weeks out, but got in at 5 days because of a cancellation,  and the last time I was scheduled in 10 days and got in in 2 on a cancellation.  My schedule is very flexible so I was able to go on pretty short notice.  So asking to be on the cancellation list is a very good idea if you want to be in sooner. Regards, Sandy in Seattle

Response:

> Your Sleep Test Results > You show symptoms of sleep apnea, a potentially serious sleep disorder.

People with sleep apnea quit > breathing repeatedly, often hundreds of times during their nights sleep. > You show symptoms of insomnia, which is defined as a persistent inability

to fall asleep or stay > asleep. > You show symptoms of periodic limb movement disorder, a disorder resulting

in uncontrollable leg or > arm movements during sleep.

go see a sleep doc not likely you’ll regret it – it’s not definate that you’ll have all or any of these disorders, but you do need to get it checked out. — Beth in Australia =================== FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://www.anchorweb.com.au/sleepdisorders this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles

Response:

> As I have stated  I am having a sleep study done in April.  I wish I could

get in sooner but I can > not.

ahh,……missed your mention of that, sorry – are you on the cancellation list? — Beth in Australia =================== FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://www.anchorweb.com.au/sleepdisorders this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles

Response:

Cramps

Question:

Absolutely. Sometimes I feel like the only person without apnea on this list Lis "Tal" <beth…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:b17kf1$10b6v5$1@ID-148111.news.dfncis.de… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > depression even if you didn’t have it before the meds.). If you want to > try > > something else, however, there ARE things you can do to make your life > > easier. > Hi Lis > can i use these suggestions on the newsgroup website? > — > Beth in Australia > =================== > FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here > http://www.anchorweb.com.au/sleepdisorders > this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles

Response:

On Wed, 29 Jan 2003 19:38:53 GMT, paula <pau…@telusplanet.net> wrote: >Note; Do you really have to pay yourself for a sleep study, specialists etc. or >did I get the wrong impression?? >Paula

No, I have not, at least: I don’t have to pay it entirely. National Health Care will pay the biggest part but there is also any contribution to pay from your own if you are a patient in Belgium. Payments are not the problem here. But National Health Care will only refund the costs of the sleep study when such is really necessary. First the doctors have the duty to find out whether more classic medicine might be helpful or not. So a whole calvary of preceding trial and error examinations is on the stocks before they finally will allow me to have a sleep study done. They will first try out all their "cheap" weapons before they decide to send you to a sleep lab. A single sleep study costs 1300 euros and that’s about what I earn in a single month. Now I don’t have to pay this all myself but imagine they send you first from pillar to post for a while before they admit any refund for a serious sleep study. Each time you have to pay and they give you medicine which are not effective.. How would YOU feel? I admit a sleep study would be the best and most conclusive test but it’s National Health Care which has to refund the whole thing and they are now in a savings round. The way I’ll have to go is full of booby traps, you see? And I don’t like doctors at all. In my eyes some of them are real bunglers and swindlers. There should exist any law saying: No cure? Then: no pay! But something like that doesn’t exist, does it? Norbert

Response:

Thanks for all your replies, folks! I could really appreciate it! Norbert (from Flanders – Belgium) On Tue, 28 Jan 2003 21:53:37 +0100, Sterrenkijker – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<Sterrenkij…@skynet.be> wrote: >Hi, >I’m Norbert, from Belgium. Sorry if my English is a little poor but >English is not my mother-tongue. >Three years ago I had a gastric banding operation. I lost 26 kilos >since. A month after the operation I had the following problem to >overcome. After 4-5 hours of sleep I woke up each night feeling strong >cramps in both legs and I had to leave bed at once. At the same time I >felt that my right arm was swollen. After waking up this way I >couldn’t fall asleep anymore during the rest of the night. After >jumping out of the bed the cramps blew over but so did my sleep. My >days were awful. I was tired all the time because my sleep had been >too short. This phenomenon never left me since. Up to now I’m >suffering from the same problem. >After rambling somewhat with several doctors (they didn’t know what it >was) it was myself who found a medicine. A certain night I drank a cup >of tea of Saint John’s wort and I felt this made me sleep somewhat >longer. This made me decide I had to look for an antidepressant. So I >went to a neurologist who gave me mianserin. It worked. Since I had >regular nights of 8-9 hours of sleep BUT the cramps didn’t disappear. >They remained present at the end of my sleep even when this one had >been long enough. Also my right arm was always swollen at the end of >the night. So up to now I’m waking up at normal times but the same >symptoms from three years ago are still a daily part of my life. >Anyway, I was able to sleep long enough and this made me revive. A >minimal dose of mianserin before bedtime was sufficient. Also another >antidepressant, such as Trozadone, had the same effect. >My question to the people here around is this: is anyone here >recognizing this? You know, it’s very odd that I have to take an >antidepressant where I am no depressive guy at all! And why do I only >need such a low dose in order to lead a normal life? Yes, my question >is why? And why is it chronic? Why do I need this every day? I tried >to stop taking the antidepressant and this works for a few days but >soon the same comes back all again. So I guess low doses of >antidepressant from now on will be with me my whole life. >I went to several doctors to find out. They said: probably >fibromyalgia, or the restless legs syndrom, or periodic limb movement >disorder. But every doctor makes me feel he is not familiar with and >this is something putting me off. I really want to know what I’m >suffering from and I’m not satisfied by someone telling me: it’s >probably this or it’s probably the other. No, I want certainty. The >last doctor I met gave me clonazepam but this was no success either. >’When this doesn’t help’, he said, then I’ll send you to a sleep >laboratory. OK, if this is necessary I’ll go but I’m afraid that even >there they won’t find the reason of my complaints. If I just knew >there was a similar case in the world then I’d like to meet that >person. >Kind regards to all of you >Norbert (from Flanders, Belgium)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Sterrenkijker wrote: > On Wed, 29 Jan 2003 19:38:53 GMT, paula <pau…@telusplanet.net> > wrote: > >Note; Do you really have to pay yourself for a sleep study, specialists etc. or > >did I get the wrong impression?? > >Paula > No, I have not, at least: I don’t have to pay it entirely. National > Health Care will pay the biggest part but there is also any > contribution to pay from your own if you are a patient in Belgium. > Payments are not the problem here. But National Health Care will only > refund the costs of the sleep study when such is really necessary. > First the doctors have the duty to find out whether more classic > medicine might be helpful or not. So a whole calvary of preceding > trial and error examinations is on the stocks before they finally will > allow me to have a sleep study done. They will first try out all their > "cheap" weapons before they decide to send you to a sleep lab. > A single sleep study costs 1300 euros and that’s about what I earn in > a single month. Now I don’t have to pay this all myself but imagine > they send you first from pillar to post for a while before they admit > any refund for a serious sleep study. Each time you have to pay and > they give you medicine which are not effective.. How would YOU feel? > I admit a sleep study would be the best and most conclusive test but > it’s National Health Care which has to refund the whole thing and they > are now in a savings round. The way I’ll have to go is full of booby > traps, you see? And I don’t like doctors at all. In my eyes some of > them are real bunglers and swindlers. There should exist any law > saying: No cure? Then: no pay! But something like that doesn’t exist, > does it? > Norbert

Bear……. see what I mean in that in some countries, even highly developed Belgium they are still looking at OSA from the dark ages. The simple on line sleep apnea test we use here can determine if you need a sleep test. Regards Lee in Toronto —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Sterrenkijker wrote: > On Wed, 29 Jan 2003 12:21:39 -0500, Lee Babcock > <leebabc…@pathcom.com> wrote: > Well, you could be right, Lee. Indeed, from time to time it’s > frightening when you have something chronic, something which does not > heal. In such case you KNOW there is something potentially wrong with > you. O.K., you convinced me: I’ll have the test done if it can be > arranged. But then I hope you’ll understand what I’ll think about the > doctor who first said that I had fibromyalgia. It’s an extremely > civilized way to tell somebody:"Dear Sir, I know what’s wrong with you > (in fact he doesn’t), you have fibromyalgia but this is a disease of > which the cause has not been discovered yet (which is a fact!), so > it’s not curable (which is a fact as well), but we can help you by > managing the symptoms. I’ll prescribe you some medicine against the > pain or for better sleep. Next meeting at xx-xx-xxxx. Now pay my bill > and call the next patient." After a few years I feel as if someone > picked my pockets. Wouldn’t you? It’s remarkable how many explanations > exist for a single symptom. They just keep you busy, don’t they? > Norbert

Norbert…… I can understand your situation as I was diagnosed by symptoms and family history as having Adult Muscular Dystrophy  and that nothing could be done about it.  Live with until you die from it was the advice.  I raised merry old hell and demanded to be tested for MD and during these tests, the OSA was diagnosed. Don’t take the word of ANY doctor without question.  Arm yourself with knowledge and ask lots of questions.  If they don’t like the questions, then remind them that they work for you.  If this doesn’t help, find another doctor. Keep in mind as well, that even the good ones in the medical profession have trouble keeping up with the rapid changes.  Don’t be afraid to print out something from the internet (provided it’s from a credible source) to give to the doctor. Take care of yourself Regards Lee in Toronto —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

done – thanks — Beth in Australia =================== FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://www.anchorweb.com.au/sleepdisorders this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles "Lis" <liont…@ptd.net> wrote in message

news:_oWZ9.1826$N5.1050304@nnrp1.ptd.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Absolutely. Sometimes I feel like the only person without apnea on this list > > Lis > "Tal" <beth…@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:b17kf1$10b6v5$1@ID-148111.news.dfncis.de… > > > depression even if you didn’t have it before the meds.). If you want to > > try > > > something else, however, there ARE things you can do to make your life > > > easier. > > Hi Lis > > can i use these suggestions on the newsgroup website? > > — > > Beth in Australia > > =================== > > FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here > > http://www.anchorweb.com.au/sleepdisorders > > this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles

Response:

On Wed, 29 Jan 2003 12:21:39 -0500, Lee Babcock <leebabc…@pathcom.com> wrote:

Well, you could be right, Lee. Indeed, from time to time it’s frightening when you have something chronic, something which does not heal. In such case you KNOW there is something potentially wrong with you. O.K., you convinced me: I’ll have the test done if it can be arranged. But then I hope you’ll understand what I’ll think about the doctor who first said that I had fibromyalgia. It’s an extremely civilized way to tell somebody:"Dear Sir, I know what’s wrong with you (in fact he doesn’t), you have fibromyalgia but this is a disease of which the cause has not been discovered yet (which is a fact!), so it’s not curable (which is a fact as well), but we can help you by managing the symptoms. I’ll prescribe you some medicine against the pain or for better sleep. Next meeting at xx-xx-xxxx. Now pay my bill and call the next patient." After a few years I feel as if someone picked my pockets. Wouldn’t you? It’s remarkable how many explanations exist for a single symptom. They just keep you busy, don’t they? Norbert – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> On Wed, 29 Jan 2003 09:44:35 -0500, Lee Babcock >Norbert…… please get a sleep test.  They can accomodate daytime >tests and a patients schedule and needs. >Your situation could be potentially very serious so you should follow up >on this.  Cramps can also be caused by kidney misfuctions as well so >don’t play with your life. >Besides, we Canadians have a special feeling for you folks from Belgium >and Holland as well. >Regards >Lee in Toronto >—–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– >http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >—–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Sterrenkijker wrote: > met for a consultation: my surgeon, the family doctor, a neurologist > and at last a specialist in the chronic fatigue/fibromyalgia syndrom > and I didn’t do any step forward up to now. Now who is the one finally > able to tell what’s the matter with me? You see?

Norbert, it is about 10 years ago I started a similar route. Fam. Doc sending to neurologist, him sending me back I am fine. Have seen many ( alternative field) on my own in between but I am finally being treated for apnea and ( sub clinical) hypo thyroid for about 1.5-2 years. Slowly getting better. You have 2 choices. Or keep going the way you do ( obviously not very well) or keep plugging away trying all you can/ are allowed to finding out what is wrong with you. It is your health. IMHO you are lucky to be send on. My fam doc threw me out as I was not following his orders; taking prozac, which nearly killed me. Note; Do you really have to pay yourself for a sleep study, specialists etc. or did I get the wrong impression?? Paula

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Sterrenkijker wrote: > Thanks, Lee, but, you know, I guess I’ll have a lot of trouble to get > a "regular" sleep test. Due to the fact that I’m working during > weekends (2 x 12 hours) and considering it’s an alternating system > (every two weeks it’s 2 x 12 hours full by day and the other weekends > it’s 2 x 12 hours full by night) I fear that I can’t arrive there in > any sleep lab telling the nurses: "Well, folks, I’m here for the > test!" Suppose I’d have to be there at Monday, after two days of night > shift.. I don’t sleep the first nights after such weekend! My entire > system is upset then for a few days. When I get sleep then it might be > 4-5 o’clock in the morning! They’re gonna make the wrong conclusions, > I’m almost sure about. I read they do the tests at night but in my > case this would not be appropriate some days. How do they solve such > problems? Would they wait till I fall asleep in the early morning and > have the test passed till noon? Last time I have been completely > disappointed by that specialist telling me that my physical condition > was not O.K. But I’m dead certain that I was his first patient coming > to him after a double night shift of 12 hours! No wonder that I was > not O.K.! The system I’m working in is very rare. Believe me: I don’t > feel very thrustful. In fact I lost much of my confidence in the > medical world the last few years. Beware when they don’t know what’s > wrong with you. Then they send you to other specialists and that’s not > wrong by itself but in the meantime they can send you the wrong > direction as well. And the main question after all is: who’s gonna pay > it? The answer is quite simple: yourself! Some doctors are just > wandering around in their own world and they can’t imagine there are > different worlds than the one they are in. Another problem might be: > suppose I am in a "good" day! It happens! There ARE indeed nights I > don’t feel cramps though they are very rare. Now suppose I arrive > there for the test.. I can’t say to the gentlemen:"Sirs, let me decide > myself the day I wish to come to you!" This is impossible since you’ll > have to be there a well defined day. It’s always THEM leading the > dance and I think that’s wrong. Such sleep test is just a snap shot > of a certain reality at a certain moment and this is where they build > up their whole diagnose on. Sometimes it feels as if that disease I’m > suffering from is just a ghost, only visible to me, and when a doctor > arrives then that ghost has gone. It’s now the fourth doctor already I > met for a consultation: my surgeon, the family doctor, a neurologist > and at last a specialist in the chronic fatigue/fibromyalgia syndrom > and I didn’t do any step forward up to now. Now who is the one finally > able to tell what’s the matter with me? You see? > Thanks for your reply anyway! > Kind regards to all > Norbert (from Flanders, Belgium) > On Wed, 29 Jan 2003 09:44:35 -0500, Lee Babcock

Norbert…… please get a sleep test.  They can accomodate daytime tests and a patients schedule and needs. Your situation could be potentially very serious so you should follow up on this.  Cramps can also be caused by kidney misfuctions as well so don’t play with your life. Besides, we Canadians have a special feeling for you folks from Belgium and Holland as well. Regards Lee in Toronto —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Thanks, Lee, but, you know, I guess I’ll have a lot of trouble to get a "regular" sleep test. Due to the fact that I’m working during weekends (2 x 12 hours) and considering it’s an alternating system (every two weeks it’s 2 x 12 hours full by day and the other weekends it’s 2 x 12 hours full by night) I fear that I can’t arrive there in any sleep lab telling the nurses: "Well, folks, I’m here for the test!" Suppose I’d have to be there at Monday, after two days of night shift.. I don’t sleep the first nights after such weekend! My entire system is upset then for a few days. When I get sleep then it might be 4-5 o’clock in the morning! They’re gonna make the wrong conclusions, I’m almost sure about. I read they do the tests at night but in my case this would not be appropriate some days. How do they solve such problems? Would they wait till I fall asleep in the early morning and have the test passed till noon? Last time I have been completely disappointed by that specialist telling me that my physical condition was not O.K. But I’m dead certain that I was his first patient coming to him after a double night shift of 12 hours! No wonder that I was not O.K.! The system I’m working in is very rare. Believe me: I don’t feel very thrustful. In fact I lost much of my confidence in the medical world the last few years. Beware when they don’t know what’s wrong with you. Then they send you to other specialists and that’s not wrong by itself but in the meantime they can send you the wrong direction as well. And the main question after all is: who’s gonna pay it? The answer is quite simple: yourself! Some doctors are just wandering around in their own world and they can’t imagine there are different worlds than the one they are in. Another problem might be: suppose I am in a "good" day! It happens! There ARE indeed nights I don’t feel cramps though they are very rare. Now suppose I arrive there for the test.. I can’t say to the gentlemen:"Sirs, let me decide myself the day I wish to come to you!" This is impossible since you’ll have to be there a well defined day. It’s always THEM leading the dance and I think that’s wrong. Such sleep test is just a snap shot of a certain reality at a certain moment and this is where they build up their whole diagnose on. Sometimes it feels as if that disease I’m suffering from is just a ghost, only visible to me, and when a doctor arrives then that ghost has gone. It’s now the fourth doctor already I met for a consultation: my surgeon, the family doctor, a neurologist and at last a specialist in the chronic fatigue/fibromyalgia syndrom and I didn’t do any step forward up to now. Now who is the one finally able to tell what’s the matter with me? You see? Thanks for your reply anyway! Kind regards to all Norbert (from Flanders, Belgium) On Wed, 29 Jan 2003 09:44:35 -0500, Lee Babcock – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Norbert….. I agree with Beth;  you should do what the doctor suggested >and have a sleep study. >During a sleep study, brain wave activity is monitored along with >movement sensors on the legs, so they can tell all kinds of things while >you are asleep. >Painless, but very revealing and its one test you don’t have to study >for! <g> >Regards >Lee in Toronto >—–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– >http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >—–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Sterrenkijker wrote: > On Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:07:04 +1100, "Tal" <beth…@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> overcome. After 4-5 hours of sleep I woke up each night feeling strong > >> cramps in both legs and I had to leave bed at once. At the same time I > >> felt that my right arm was swollen. After waking up this way I > >You could try making sure you drink plenty of water throughout the day, > >sometimes cramping is caused by dehydration. > I don’t think that dehydration is my problem. I’m not sweating for the > moment. It’s winter here. A few hours ago we got even snow outside! > I drink enough: coffee, beer, tea, milk, everything. > >You could also try taking a suppliment of magnesium and potassium before > >bed. > You are right. Well, it helps a little, especially a magnesium-calcium > supplement but it doesn’t settle it. I’m also taking 2.5 mg of > melatonin and I drink a cup of ginkgo biloba tea before bedtime. > Ginkgo biloba tea and a vit. B complex pill sometimes are sufficient > in summer (so without the mianserin) during hot days. > >>’When this doesn’t help’, he said, then I’ll send you to a sleep > >>laboratory. OK, if this is necessary I’ll go but I’m afraid that even > >>there they won’t find the reason of my complaints. If I just knew > >>there was a similar case in the world then I’d like to meet that > >>person. > >If you have a sleep disorder like restless leg syndrome or periodic limb > >movement disorder, that would certainly show up on a sleep study at a sleep > >lab, and would be useful.  I would recommend that if you are concerned, you > >go ahead with the sleep study. > >Let us know how things go. > O.K., I’ll do so. But I also want to know how they can trace this in a > lab. > N.

Norbert….. I agree with Beth;  you should do what the doctor suggested and have a sleep study. During a sleep study, brain wave activity is monitored along with movement sensors on the legs, so they can tell all kinds of things while you are asleep. Painless, but very revealing and its one test you don’t have to study for! <g> Regards Lee in Toronto —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

> depression even if you didn’t have it before the meds.). If you want to try > something else, however, there ARE things you can do to make your life > easier.

Hi Lis can i use these suggestions on the newsgroup website? — Beth in Australia =================== FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://www.anchorweb.com.au/sleepdisorders this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles

Response:

> I don’t think that dehydration is my problem. I’m not sweating for the > moment. It’s winter here. A few hours ago we got even snow outside! > I drink enough: coffee, beer, tea, milk, everything.

It doesn’t matter what time of year it is or how hot it is, you can always get dehydrated. Coffee and beer and tea are all products that contribute to you becoming dehydrated – you need to make sure you drink a lot of water in addition to these things – plain water is very important! > O.K., I’ll do so. But I also want to know how they can trace this in a > lab.

In the sleep lab, you will be wired up to a computer that will track your brainwaves while you sleep, this tells the doctor how much sleep you get and what the quality of your sleep is like and if anything is abnormal.  They will also put a sensor or two on your legs to see if your leg muslces move while you are sleeping.  A sleep study will tell you a LOT of important information about how you sleep. If you want to know more about what is involved in a sleep study, visit this link, and be sure to click on the Wired For Sleep link too. http://www.anchorweb.com.au/sleepdisorders/sleepstudy.htm good luck — Beth in Australia =================== FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://www.anchorweb.com.au/sleepdisorders this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles

Response:

I sent this privately when I meant to send to the list. Here’s what I wrote: Hello. For your information, I found your English to be perfect You wanted to meet someone with your problem? Meet myself and my husband. He is going untreated for Period Limb Movement disorder/Restless Leg. I also have both, and am under treatment. While I have other symptoms, my husband wakes up all the time with terrible leg cramps. I have no known reason why your arm would swell, so I advise you to check this out thoroughly with an accredited sleep doctor and any other recommended physicians s/he refers you to. The reason the anitdepressants work is because they induce sleep. Be warned that it’s quite something to wean yourself off of them (headaches and depression even if you didn’t have it before the meds.). If you want to try something else, however, there ARE things you can do to make your life easier. 1) Melatonin works to induce sleep. This sometimes helps my husband sleep through his cramps. It is fairly safe and non-addictive. 2) I use Benadryl brand antihistimine (and the generic brands, too) to induce deep enough sleep to over-ride the symptoms. Many people are able to do this, and the next best drug is the clonezapam you tried, which I am allergic to. It’s also a narcotic (highly addictive). 3) Move  your body. Get walking or leg exercise during the day. If you have an attack at night, get up and move a round a bit, then try again to sleep. Experiment with exercise times, as it takes a different routine with different timing (in relation to bedtime) for each person who suffers from this disorder. 4) Lose weight if you need to. Our attacks are fewer and less severe when we weigh less. 5) For some people, heat helps. Try a hot water bottle, bed socks, a heating pad or a hot bath before bed. 6) Do as much as you can to be very sleepy before you go to bed. Do as much as you can to fall asleep quickly. The longer it takes to fall asleep, the more likely it is that you’ll be woken by the cramping. So, take hot baths or showers to relax you. Develop good "sleep hygiene," which means do not use your bed to do anything but sleep in (no TV, reading, exercising, radio, etc…). Go to bed on a rigid schedule. Develop a bedtime routine that you can take with you wherever you go. If you cannot sleep, get out of bed and do something quietly until you are sleepy again. This trains your body to go to sleep as soon as you are in bed, and not wait for something interesting to happen . 7) Learn meditation and relaxation skills. They help. Check with a dietitian to see what you can do with your diet to lessen leg cramps (get lots of potassium, magnesium, calcium, etc.). 9) Get educated! Educate your Physician. See these websites: sleepnet.com http://www.sleepnet.com/ Talk About Sleep http://www.talkaboutsleep.com/ Sleep Disorder Channel http://www.sleepdisorderchannel.com/ National Center on Sleep Disorder Research http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/about/ncsdr/ Sleep Medicine Home Page http://www.users.cloud9.net/~thorpy/ Ambien (a sleep-aid drug, mildly addictive) Homepage http://www.ambien.com/ MSNBC Sleep Disorders page http://www.msnbc.com/onair/nbc/nightlynews/sleep/disorders.asp Sleepquest Sleep Disorders page http://www.sleepquest.com/s_sleepdisorder.html ivillage sleep disorders info. pages http://www.ivillage.com/topics/health/0,10707,234284,00.html American Academy of Sleep Medicine http://www.aasmnet.org/listing.htm That’s enough for now, but a websearch on the topic brings up thousands of hits. Good Luck Lis

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Sterrenkijker wrote: > Hi, > I’m Norbert, from Belgium. Sorry if my English is a little poor but > English is not my mother-tongue. > Three years ago I had a gastric banding operation. I lost 26 kilos > since. A month after the operation I had the following problem to > overcome. After 4-5 hours of sleep I woke up each night feeling strong > cramps in both legs and I had to leave bed at once. At the same time I > felt that my right arm was swollen. After waking up this way I > couldn’t fall asleep anymore during the rest of the night. After > jumping out of the bed the cramps blew over but so did my sleep. My > days were awful. I was tired all the time because my sleep had been > too short. This phenomenon never left me since. Up to now I’m > suffering from the same problem. > After rambling somewhat with several doctors (they didn’t know what it > was) it was myself who found a medicine. A certain night I drank a cup > of tea of Saint John’s wort and I felt this made me sleep somewhat > longer. This made me decide I had to look for an antidepressant. So I > went to a neurologist who gave me mianserin. It worked. Since I had > regular nights of 8-9 hours of sleep BUT the cramps didn’t disappear. > They remained present at the end of my sleep even when this one had > been long enough. Also my right arm was always swollen at the end of > the night. So up to now I’m waking up at normal times but the same > symptoms from three years ago are still a daily part of my life. > Anyway, I was able to sleep long enough and this made me revive. A > minimal dose of mianserin before bedtime was sufficient. Also another > antidepressant, such as Trozadone, had the same effect. > My question to the people here around is this: is anyone here > recognizing this? You know, it’s very odd that I have to take an > antidepressant where I am no depressive guy at all! And why do I only > need such a low dose in order to lead a normal life? Yes, my question > is why? And why is it chronic? Why do I need this every day? I tried > to stop taking the antidepressant and this works for a few days but > soon the same comes back all again. So I guess low doses of > antidepressant from now on will be with me my whole life. > I went to several doctors to find out. They said: probably > fibromyalgia, or the restless legs syndrom, or periodic limb movement > disorder. But every doctor makes me feel he is not familiar with and > this is something putting me off. I really want to know what I’m > suffering from and I’m not satisfied by someone telling me: it’s > probably this or it’s probably the other. No, I want certainty. The > last doctor I met gave me clonazepam but this was no success either. > ‘When this doesn’t help’, he said, then I’ll send you to a sleep > laboratory. OK, if this is necessary I’ll go but I’m afraid that even > there they won’t find the reason of my complaints. If I just knew > there was a similar case in the world then I’d like to meet that > person. > Kind regards to all of you > Norbert (from Flanders, Belgium)

—–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

On Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:07:04 +1100, "Tal" <beth…@hotmail.com> wrote: >> overcome. After 4-5 hours of sleep I woke up each night feeling strong >> cramps in both legs and I had to leave bed at once. At the same time I >> felt that my right arm was swollen. After waking up this way I >You could try making sure you drink plenty of water throughout the day, >sometimes cramping is caused by dehydration.

I don’t think that dehydration is my problem. I’m not sweating for the moment. It’s winter here. A few hours ago we got even snow outside! I drink enough: coffee, beer, tea, milk, everything. >You could also try taking a suppliment of magnesium and potassium before >bed.

You are right. Well, it helps a little, especially a magnesium-calcium supplement but it doesn’t settle it. I’m also taking 2.5 mg of melatonin and I drink a cup of ginkgo biloba tea before bedtime. Ginkgo biloba tea and a vit. B complex pill sometimes are sufficient in summer (so without the mianserin) during hot days. >>’When this doesn’t help’, he said, then I’ll send you to a sleep >>laboratory. OK, if this is necessary I’ll go but I’m afraid that even >>there they won’t find the reason of my complaints. If I just knew >>there was a similar case in the world then I’d like to meet that >>person. >If you have a sleep disorder like restless leg syndrome or periodic limb >movement disorder, that would certainly show up on a sleep study at a sleep >lab, and would be useful.  I would recommend that if you are concerned, you >go ahead with the sleep study. >Let us know how things go.

O.K., I’ll do so. But I also want to know how they can trace this in a lab. N.

Response:

> overcome. After 4-5 hours of sleep I woke up each night feeling strong > cramps in both legs and I had to leave bed at once. At the same time I > felt that my right arm was swollen. After waking up this way I

You could try making sure you drink plenty of water throughout the day, sometimes cramping is caused by dehydration. You could also try taking a suppliment of magnesium and potassium before bed. >’When this doesn’t help’, he said, then I’ll send you to a sleep >laboratory. OK, if this is necessary I’ll go but I’m afraid that even >there they won’t find the reason of my complaints. If I just knew >there was a similar case in the world then I’d like to meet that >person.

If you have a sleep disorder like restless leg syndrome or periodic limb movement disorder, that would certainly show up on a sleep study at a sleep lab, and would be useful.  I would recommend that if you are concerned, you go ahead with the sleep study. Let us know how things go. — Beth in Australia =================== FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://www.anchorweb.com.au/sleepdisorders this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles

Response:

Hi, I’m Norbert, from Belgium. Sorry if my English is a little poor but English is not my mother-tongue. Three years ago I had a gastric banding operation. I lost 26 kilos since. A month after the operation I had the following problem to overcome. After 4-5 hours of sleep I woke up each night feeling strong cramps in both legs and I had to leave bed at once. At the same time I felt that my right arm was swollen. After waking up this way I couldn’t fall asleep anymore during the rest of the night. After jumping out of the bed the cramps blew over but so did my sleep. My days were awful. I was tired all the time because my sleep had been too short. This phenomenon never left me since. Up to now I’m suffering from the same problem. After rambling somewhat with several doctors (they didn’t know what it was) it was myself who found a medicine. A certain night I drank a cup of tea of Saint John’s wort and I felt this made me sleep somewhat longer. This made me decide I had to look for an antidepressant. So I went to a neurologist who gave me mianserin. It worked. Since I had regular nights of 8-9 hours of sleep BUT the cramps didn’t disappear. They remained present at the end of my sleep even when this one had been long enough. Also my right arm was always swollen at the end of the night. So up to now I’m waking up at normal times but the same symptoms from three years ago are still a daily part of my life. Anyway, I was able to sleep long enough and this made me revive. A minimal dose of mianserin before bedtime was sufficient. Also another antidepressant, such as Trozadone, had the same effect. My question to the people here around is this: is anyone here recognizing this? You know, it’s very odd that I have to take an antidepressant where I am no depressive guy at all! And why do I only need such a low dose in order to lead a normal life? Yes, my question is why? And why is it chronic? Why do I need this every day? I tried to stop taking the antidepressant and this works for a few days but soon the same comes back all again. So I guess low doses of antidepressant from now on will be with me my whole life. I went to several doctors to find out. They said: probably fibromyalgia, or the restless legs syndrom, or periodic limb movement disorder. But every doctor makes me feel he is not familiar with and this is something putting me off. I really want to know what I’m suffering from and I’m not satisfied by someone telling me: it’s probably this or it’s probably the other. No, I want certainty. The last doctor I met gave me clonazepam but this was no success either. ‘When this doesn’t help’, he said, then I’ll send you to a sleep laboratory. OK, if this is necessary I’ll go but I’m afraid that even there they won’t find the reason of my complaints. If I just knew there was a similar case in the world then I’d like to meet that person. Kind regards to all of you Norbert (from Flanders, Belgium)

Response: