Meaning of "vivid dreams?"
Question:
Hello, I have recently been diagnosed w/ sleep apnea. I was originally sent to the sleep clinic by a neurologist after complaining about migraine headaches and lousy sleep. In a very brief report from the sleep lab, I was told that I had sleep apnea, and poor sleep. The report recommended CPAP titration — I go back next week. After some thought and some reading on the subject, I decided that sleep was my primary problem, and migraines secondary, so I have scheduled an appointment with a sleep specialist, but that appointment won’t take place for a month. In the meantime, I have some questions about my report, and I thought that some of you might have some answers (all I have is this summary). 1) The report notes that I told the tech about "vivid dreams." I talked about a lot of things. Why is this worth singling out? 2) The report said that I had a "reduced efficiency" of 68%. What does this mean? 3) What is "overall RDI?" Mine was 64.8 4) I did not get into deep sleep in the sleep lab — I had a really bad night of sleep. Is sleep apnea usually worse in sleep stages 3 & 4? The good news is that they told me that it was worse on my back and that I have trained myself to sleep on my side by strapping a softball to my back. I have slept very well for the past week or so, and I feel much more rested already.
Response:
<< 1) The report notes that I told the tech about "vivid dreams." I talked about a lot of things. Why is this worth singling out?>> Can be an indication of sleep disorders of various types. Some of us dreamt a lot pre-treatment, some of us never dreamed. It does indicate that you are getting into REM sleep. <<2) The report said that I had a "reduced efficiency" of 68%. What does this mean?>> Not sure exactly what that means. Ask your doc. <<3) What is "overall RDI?" Mine was 64.8>> Respiratory Distress Index. It is usually the most important single measurement of apneas and hypopneas and indicates you were stopping breathing for 10 seconds or more 64 times an hour, or more than once a minute. In general any index over about 40 is considered "severe" sleep apnea. You might also want to look for your Oxygen Saturation or O2Sat. Normal is 98% and anything below 95% is a strong sign of a problem <<4) I did not get into deep sleep in the sleep lab — I had a really bad night of sleep. Is sleep apnea usually worse in sleep stages 3 & 4?>> The thing about sleep apnea is that you NEVER get to stages 3 and 4! The fact that you did not have any deep sleep is a principal result of your apnea! I also did not think I slept well during my study, but they are normally able to get plenty of data even if you don’t feel you slept well. CPAP is a wonderful thing and I predict that, like many of us, you will find that it makes a major difference in your health and lifestyle! It can be a bit hard to adjust to but it is well worth making the effort! Keep us informed about your progress by posting here. Mike posted and emailed
Response:
Thanks for the response. The report noted that I had no significant oxygen desaturations. Which I guess is a good thing, but not so good when it comes to getting my insurance company to pay for the CPAP. But my doc thinks that there are other ways of getting them to pay. I have my CPAP titration next week, and will keep you posted…. "MercedMike" <mercedm…@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030228181338.02067.00000205@mb-mq.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> << 1) The report notes that I told the tech about "vivid dreams." I > talked about a lot of things. Why is this worth singling out?>> > Can be an indication of sleep disorders of various types. Some of us dreamt a > lot pre-treatment, some of us never dreamed. It does indicate that you are > getting into REM sleep. > <<2) The report said that I had a "reduced efficiency" of 68%. What > does this mean?>> > Not sure exactly what that means. Ask your doc. > <<3) What is "overall RDI?" Mine was 64.8>> > Respiratory Distress Index. It is usually the most important single > measurement of apneas and hypopneas and indicates you were stopping breathing > for 10 seconds or more 64 times an hour, or more than once a minute. In > general any index over about 40 is considered "severe" sleep apnea. > You might also want to look for your Oxygen Saturation or O2Sat. Normal is 98% > and anything below 95% is a strong sign of a problem > <<4) I did not get into deep sleep in the sleep lab — I had a really > bad night of sleep. Is sleep apnea usually worse in sleep stages 3 & > 4?>> > The thing about sleep apnea is that you NEVER get to stages 3 and 4! The fact > that you did not have any deep sleep is a principal result of your apnea! I > also did not think I slept well during my study, but they are normally able to > get plenty of data even if you don’t feel you slept well. > CPAP is a wonderful thing and I predict that, like many of us, you will find > that it makes a major difference in your health and lifestyle! It can be a bit > hard to adjust to but it is well worth making the effort! > Keep us informed about your progress by posting here. > Mike > posted and emailed
Response:
> The thing about sleep apnea is that you NEVER get to stages 3 and 4! The fact > that you did not have any deep sleep is a principal result of your apnea! I > also did not think I slept well during my study, but they are normally able to > get plenty of data even if you don’t feel you slept well.
nooooooooooooooooooo……… people without apnea can experience lack of stage .3+4 sleep…and ppl with apnea can quite easily HAVE deep sleep… in some people, true, the apnea can reduce the amount of deep sleep, but i think most people with apnea have at least some deep sleep – apnea tends to be worse during deep sleep stages — Beth in Australia =================== FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://www.anchorweb.com.au/sleepdisorders this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles
Response:
"Tal" <beth…@hotmail.com> wrote in message <news:b3qku5$1ov2s6$1@ID-148111.news.dfncis.de>… > nooooooooooooooooooo……… people without apnea can experience lack of > stage .3+4 sleep…and ppl with apnea can quite easily HAVE deep sleep… > in some people, true, the apnea can reduce the amount of deep sleep, but i > think most people with apnea have at least some deep sleep – apnea tends to > be worse during deep sleep stages
Based on my own experience, I think you’re right, Tal — I think I get some stage 3&4 sleep — not enough of it and it is constantly interrupted. In any event, I did not get any deep sleep during my visit to the sleep lab. Your comment summons a follow-up question for the group: if my RDI score is so high, indicating a "severe" case of sleep apnea, why did I experience no significant O2 desaturations? Is it because I never got into deep sleep?
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Grumpstone wrote: > "Tal" <beth…@hotmail.com> wrote in message <news:b3qku5$1ov2s6$1@ID-148111.news.dfncis.de>… > > nooooooooooooooooooo……… people without apnea can experience lack of > > stage .3+4 sleep…and ppl with apnea can quite easily HAVE deep sleep… > > in some people, true, the apnea can reduce the amount of deep sleep, but i > > think most people with apnea have at least some deep sleep – apnea tends to > > be worse during deep sleep stages > Based on my own experience, I think you’re right, Tal — I think I get > some stage 3&4 sleep — not enough of it and it is constantly > interrupted. In any event, I did not get any deep sleep during my > visit to the sleep lab. > Your comment summons a follow-up question for the group: if my RDI > score is so high, indicating a "severe" case of sleep apnea, why did I > experience no significant O2 desaturations? Is it because I never got > into deep sleep?
Great question! My shot in the dark: Perhaps the duration of the apneas are not great enough to reduce the oxy sat levels.
Response:
"NormC" <no…@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3E610984.7C6DC79E@socal.rr.com… > Grumpstone wrote: > > "Tal" <beth…@hotmail.com> wrote in message
<news:b3qku5$1ov2s6$1@ID-148111.news.dfncis.de>… > > > nooooooooooooooooooo……… people without apnea can experience lack of > > > stage .3+4 sleep…and ppl with apnea can quite easily HAVE deep sleep… > > > in some people, true, the apnea can reduce the amount of deep sleep, but i > > > think most people with apnea have at least some deep sleep – apnea tends to > > > be worse during deep sleep stages > > Based on my own experience, I think you’re right, Tal — I think I get > > some stage 3&4 sleep — not enough of it and it is constantly > > interrupted. In any event, I did not get any deep sleep during my > > visit to the sleep lab.
I’m with Beth on this one! I’m guesiing but I think we might make it into and even thru stage 3 and 4 and then start having trouble after (or approaching) the first REM cycle. http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/sleep.html REM paralyses pretty much everything but the involunatery muscles (heart, lungs, etc.). Means tongue which is a big old muscle relaxes and may stay relaxed blocking air. > > Your comment summons a follow-up question for the group: if my RDI > > score is so high, indicating a "severe" case of sleep apnea, why did I > > experience no significant O2 desaturations? Is it because I never got > > into deep sleep? > Great question! > My shot in the dark: Perhaps the duration of the apneas are not great enough to > reduce the oxy sat levels.
Good answer, that’s my first thought also! Also, central apnea can show less O2 desat than obstructive (got central on the brain, pun intended 
) Mike
Response:
> Your comment summons a follow-up question for the group: if my RDI > score is so high, indicating a "severe" case of sleep apnea, why did I > experience no significant O2 desaturations? Is it because I never got > into deep sleep?
I’d guess that it’s likely that the duration of each of your apnea events was short enough that it didn’t affect your oxygen levels……the longer the apnea event, the more your O2 levels are likely to drop. Thinking about your theory of deep sleep – it is indeed possible (in theory) that while in deep sleep, it takes you longer to wake out of an apnea event, meaning the O2 levels are more likely to drop. — Beth in Australia =================== FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://www.anchorweb.com.au/sleepdisorders this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles
Response:
"Tal" <beth…@hotmail.com> wrote in message <news:b3t53i$1ppbfe$1@ID-148111.news.dfncis.de>… > > Your comment summons a follow-up question for the group: if my RDI > > score is so high, indicating a "severe" case of sleep apnea, why did I > > experience no significant O2 desaturations? Is it because I never got > > into deep sleep? > I’d guess that it’s likely that the duration of each of your apnea events > was short enough that it didn’t affect your oxygen levels……the longer > the apnea event, the more your O2 levels are likely to drop. Thinking about > your theory of deep sleep – it is indeed possible (in theory) that while in > deep sleep, it takes you longer to wake out of an apnea event, meaning the > O2 levels are more likely to drop.
Hi Tal, I don’t know if you are reading this but … I think you’re right. I went in for my CPAP trial, and the tech (same person as last time, and she is experienced) showed me some of the charts. There were hundreds of apneas/hypopneas…the charts did not show duration, but she thought they were probably short — they had to be as there were so many over the course of a single night. Also significant was the fact that I am young and in good shape. The apneas also correlated perfectly with frequent arousals. Anyway, it took a while to get to sleep with the CPAP. I tolerated it well, and when I finally did fall asleep, I experienced a true rarity: stages 3 & 4. The tech said that I will have to wait 3-4 weeks for it! Argh!
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -NormC <no…@socal.rr.com> wrote in message <news:3E610984.7C6DC79E@socal.rr.com>… > Grumpstone wrote: > > "Tal" <beth…@hotmail.com> wrote in message <news:b3qku5$1ov2s6$1@ID-148111.news.dfncis.de>… > > > nooooooooooooooooooo……… people without apnea can experience lack of > > > stage .3+4 sleep…and ppl with apnea can quite easily HAVE deep sleep… > > > in some people, true, the apnea can reduce the amount of deep sleep, but i > > > think most people with apnea have at least some deep sleep – apnea tends to > > > be worse during deep sleep stages > > Based on my own experience, I think you’re right, Tal — I think I get > > some stage 3&4 sleep — not enough of it and it is constantly > > interrupted. In any event, I did not get any deep sleep during my > > visit to the sleep lab. > > Your comment summons a follow-up question for the group: if my RDI > > score is so high, indicating a "severe" case of sleep apnea, why did I > > experience no significant O2 desaturations? Is it because I never got > > into deep sleep? > Great question! > My shot in the dark: Perhaps the duration of the apneas are not great enough to > reduce the oxy sat levels.
Norm, Based on my CPAP trial I think you’re right — see my response to Tal below. Thanks!
Response:
> Anyway, it took a while to get to sleep with the CPAP. I tolerated it > well, and when I finally did fall asleep, I experienced a true rarity: > stages 3 & 4. The tech said that I will have to wait 3-4 weeks for > it! Argh!
ahh, great tht you got some deep sleep while on CPAP – I hope the benefit is seen even more when you’re sleeping with it every night Good luck…and be sure to bring any issues that crop up to us so we can help you out wtih them. — Beth in Australia =================== FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://www.anchorweb.com.au/sleepdisorders this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Grumpstone wrote: > "Tal" <beth…@hotmail.com> wrote in message <news:b3t53i$1ppbfe$1@ID-148111.news.dfncis.de>… > > > Your comment summons a follow-up question for the group: if my RDI > > > score is so high, indicating a "severe" case of sleep apnea, why did I > > > experience no significant O2 desaturations? Is it because I never got > > > into deep sleep? > > I’d guess that it’s likely that the duration of each of your apnea events > > was short enough that it didn’t affect your oxygen levels……the longer > > the apnea event, the more your O2 levels are likely to drop. Thinking about > > your theory of deep sleep – it is indeed possible (in theory) that while in > > deep sleep, it takes you longer to wake out of an apnea event, meaning the > > O2 levels are more likely to drop. > Hi Tal, > I don’t know if you are reading this but … I think you’re right. I > went in for my CPAP trial, and the tech (same person as last time, and > she is experienced) showed me some of the charts. There were hundreds > of apneas/hypopneas…the charts did not show duration, but she > thought they were probably short — they had to be as there were so > many over the course of a single night. Also significant was the fact > that I am young and in good shape. The apneas also correlated > perfectly with frequent arousals. > Anyway, it took a while to get to sleep with the CPAP. I tolerated it > well, and when I finally did fall asleep, I experienced a true rarity: > stages 3 & 4. The tech said that I will have to wait 3-4 weeks for > it! Argh!
Why 3-4 weeks?
Response:
That’s what I was wondering. Well, for some reason I have to await the results of the (second) sleep study to get the prescription. I was told that that should take about two weeks, but the best case is 1 week. Then I have to wait for an appointment with the DME company…. I’ve been complaining to doctors for 15 years about poor sleep. You’d think I could wait a week or two, but now that I know what the solution is, the wait is killing me! "NormC" <no…@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3E66E69C.9A66BE2A@socal.rr.com… > Grumpstone wrote: > > "Tal" <beth…@hotmail.com> wrote in message
<news:b3t53i$1ppbfe$1@ID-148111.news.dfncis.de>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > > Your comment summons a follow-up question for the group: if my RDI > > > > score is so high, indicating a "severe" case of sleep apnea, why did I > > > > experience no significant O2 desaturations? Is it because I never got > > > > into deep sleep? > > > I’d guess that it’s likely that the duration of each of your apnea events > > > was short enough that it didn’t affect your oxygen levels……the longer > > > the apnea event, the more your O2 levels are likely to drop. Thinking about > > > your theory of deep sleep – it is indeed possible (in theory) that while in > > > deep sleep, it takes you longer to wake out of an apnea event, meaning the > > > O2 levels are more likely to drop. > > Hi Tal, > > I don’t know if you are reading this but … I think you’re right. I > > went in for my CPAP trial, and the tech (same person as last time, and > > she is experienced) showed me some of the charts. There were hundreds > > of apneas/hypopneas…the charts did not show duration, but she > > thought they were probably short — they had to be as there were so > > many over the course of a single night. Also significant was the fact > > that I am young and in good shape. The apneas also correlated > > perfectly with frequent arousals. > > Anyway, it took a while to get to sleep with the CPAP. I tolerated it > > well, and when I finally did fall asleep, I experienced a true rarity: > > stages 3 & 4. The tech said that I will have to wait 3-4 weeks for > > it! Argh! > Why 3-4 weeks?
Response:
NormC, thanks again for your follow-up. I am bouncing between posting on google and an nntp server, so things may appear disjointed, time-wise…. No, I have not seen my PSG report. I called my neurologist about the CPAP prescription. The reason I have to wait for the prescription is that I did not meet the insurance criteria for a CPAP after my first night in the lab (probably b/c my O2 desats were minimal). They did diagnose poor sleep secondary to sleep apnea (RDI = 65). I don’t know if my apnea is "serious," but it seems to cause about 60 arousals a minute, if I recall my conversation with the sleep lab technician correctly. It really prevents me from getting proper sleep. I went in for a CPAP titration, and will hopefully meet insurance criteria this time. But I have to wait for the sleep study report, which takes about two weeks. In the meantime, I have scheduled my first visit with a sleep specialist early next week (I was sent to the sleep lab by a neurologist treating headaches). Because I will be seeing the same md who reads the sleep study, I may actually be able to walk away with a prescription. I plan to ask for a copy of my PSG report as well, and I will post the results here. I do not know if I will get to pick my own DME. The lab tech recommended what she thought was a good one, and FWIW thought that my insurance company was good at paying for these things…. Take care.
Response:
Grumpstone wrote: > That’s what I was wondering. Well, for some reason I have to await the > results of the (second) sleep study to get the prescription. I was told > that that should take about two weeks, but the best case is 1 week.
FWIW, and for your use, my sleep lab guarantees (in writing – see http://www.sleepmedservices.com/ ) a diplomated sleep doc report in 72 hours (3 days). And they did so for one PSG and two titrations. > Then I > have to wait for an appointment with the DME company….
What kind of insurance do you have? Do you get to pick your own DME? > I’ve been complaining to doctors for 15 years about poor sleep. You’d think > I could wait a week or two,
IMHO, after 15 years, you shouldn’t have to wait at all. Have you ever posted your PSG report? It would be interesting to see if it looks like your apnea is ’serious’. Have you ever had an echocardiogram? Did it indicate you had an enlarged heart, a typical occurrence for those with apnea. The longer the apnea is untreated, the more enlarged the heart can become. Perhaps you can use some of the above to speed things up. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> but now that I know what the solution is, the > wait is killing me! > "NormC" <no…@socal.rr.com> wrote in message > news:3E66E69C.9A66BE2A@socal.rr.com… > > Grumpstone wrote: > > > "Tal" <beth…@hotmail.com> wrote in message > <news:b3t53i$1ppbfe$1@ID-148111.news.dfncis.de>… > > > > > Your comment summons a follow-up question for the group: if my RDI > > > > > score is so high, indicating a "severe" case of sleep apnea, why did > I > > > > > experience no significant O2 desaturations? Is it because I never > got > > > > > into deep sleep? > > > > I’d guess that it’s likely that the duration of each of your apnea > events > > > > was short enough that it didn’t affect your oxygen levels……the > longer > > > > the apnea event, the more your O2 levels are likely to drop. Thinking > about > > > > your theory of deep sleep – it is indeed possible (in theory) that > while in > > > > deep sleep, it takes you longer to wake out of an apnea event, meaning > the > > > > O2 levels are more likely to drop. > > > Hi Tal, > > > I don’t know if you are reading this but … I think you’re right. I > > > went in for my CPAP trial, and the tech (same person as last time, and > > > she is experienced) showed me some of the charts. There were hundreds > > > of apneas/hypopneas…the charts did not show duration, but she > > > thought they were probably short — they had to be as there were so > > > many over the course of a single night. Also significant was the fact > > > that I am young and in good shape. The apneas also correlated > > > perfectly with frequent arousals. > > > Anyway, it took a while to get to sleep with the CPAP. I tolerated it > > > well, and when I finally did fall asleep, I experienced a true rarity: > > > stages 3 & 4. The tech said that I will have to wait 3-4 weeks for > > > it! Argh! > > Why 3-4 weeks?
