Poor Sleep
Question:
I am a nonmedical person who does not suffer sleep dep…I spent 14 years with a now standard "resume" of treatments, tests & pharmaceuticals for injury induced migraines. Subsequent to my acupuncture adventures, I had a (traditionally trained, surgical specialist) friend who’s an MD refer me to a magnetic sleep system. There are varying types; they are not all the same either in technology or efficacy. I borrowed one for a week, then purchased a set; it was an 8 week process for my headaches to clear up (about 80%…I’m still seeking an answer for the last 20%). As an unexpected benefit, back problems I’ve had for 2 decades (pursuant to a fracture) were much relieved…not gone, but very bearable. I have loaned sleep sets to numerous friends, and THEIR friends, since that time, for a variety of issues, including sleep disorders and unsuccessful back surgeries. One lawyer who uses the product recently indicated that he had sleep deprivations so badly that many times he would fall asleep at a red light. His specialist has been amazed at the turn around that these products have made in his health. He now sleeps at least 6-7 hours a night regularly. Imagine what that would mean. If you reply with an address, I’d be happy to forward you a copy of an outstanding article by Valerie Free, an renowned "alternative" proponent (unaffiliated with any product lines) who hosts symposia on various progressive health topics which draw medical and scientific professionals from around the globe. bill and danae hamlin wrote in message <6mdmec$e2…@supernews.com>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->From: bill and danae hamlin <bdham…@abts.net> >To: Gary Collins <coll…@preferred.com> >Subject: Re: Poor sleep >Date: Thursday, June 18, 1998 5:24 PM >Dear Gary: >You are in a "world of hurt!" I am a nonmedical person who does not suffer >sleep dep…I spent 14 years with a similar "resume" of treatments, tests & >pharmaceuticals for injury induced migraines. I also indulged in various >"alternative"s, some of which were helpful, some of which were not. I did >have good effects from chiropractic, unlike yourself, and also some success >with acupuncture. Contrary to what you may expect, there are many >acupuncturists out there who are not MDs, but who’s training far exceeds the >quick certificate needed to allow an MD to sign off on acupuncture for >insurance. So, finding a clinic with well trained, even if non-medical (by >American standards), acupuncturists, is key. Additionally, 80% of the gains >in traditional acupuncture come from the herbs administered between >treatments, not from the treatments themselves. > Subsequent to my acupuncture adventures, I had a (traditionally >trained, surgical specialist) friend who’s an MD refer me to a magnetic >sleep system. There are varying types; they are not all the same either in >technology or efficacy. I borrowed one for a week, then purchased a set; it >was an 8 week process for my headaches to clear up (about 80%…I’m still >seeking an answer for the last 20%). During the course of that time, my >husband’s significant allergy problems cleared up–two years later they only >revive if we are off our sleep set for an extended trip. As an unexpected >benefit, back problems I’ve had for 2 decades (pursuant to a fracture) were >much relieved…not gone, but bearable. > I have loaned sleep sets to numerous friends, and THEIR friends, since >that time, for a variety of issues, including sleep disorders and >unsuccessful back surgeries. While the "success" rate is less than 100%, >this is clearly true of the chemical regimen you’re on as well. There are no >contraindications with medicines, so the potential down side is just the >emotional investment of placing hope in one more thing which may or may not >be the answer. For the vast majority of people, though, the magnetic >exposure seems to be soothing, and result in enhanced length and quality of >sleep, and the predictable improvement in many "weak links" if good sleep is >acheived so the body can self heal, as programmed. If you reply with an >address, I’d be happy to forward you a copy of an article by Valerie Free, >an "alternative" proponent (unaffiliated with any product lines) who hosts >symposia on various progressive health topics which draw medical and >scientific professionals from around the globe. This is a topic much more >familiar in Russia, Germany & the Czech countries than here–also in parts >of Asia. None the less, do a search and you’ll find lots of mainstream >attention to the use of magnetics for health purposes. (Not your average >refrig magnet, & no crystals attached) > I have no idea where you’re located, but there are distributors across >the country who are willing to loan these products to people who are >"desperate", as you said, and allow them to see if they have benefit. There >are many others who will sell a sleep set with a 90-day money back offer, >since most issues don’t necessarily resolve in a week. > It is unlikely that you live in my area, so also unlikely that I would >benefit from your trial of these products. Having seen some really >miraculous resolutions for people with the kind of experience you’ve listed, >I urge you to set some of your skepticism aside and find a way to >investigate these technologies that doesn’t leave you financially hung out, >but that would require some openmindedness on an unfamiliar topic. > One last thought: you may also want to do a search on far-infrared >technology and it’s beneficial effects on the body–some of your complaints >may be related to ph that’s out of whack. Failing a "find" on the internet, >check out Sang Whang’s Reverse Aging (book, probably has to be ordered, my >(old) copy lists 201.568.5755 as a fax address. ) > I can’t imagine living without adequate sleep–it strikes me as true >torture. Good luck in you search for solutions. D. >—–Original Message—– >From: Gary Collins <coll…@preferred.com> >Newsgroups: alt.support.sleep-disorder >Date: Saturday, June 13, 1998 8:53 PM >Subject: Poor sleep >>I lurk on this group most of the time. Some of the information I see is >>useful some is just drivel. That’s not to say it is not a good group it >>takes all kinds of people and I realize that some receive help from what >>I feel is drivel. I try to contribute from time to time. Lately I have >>been too tired to do much of anything. >>I have been on CPAP about three years now the first six to eight months >>was wonderful total relief. Now, while I am well adjusted to using CPAP >>I am not getting a good night’s rest even when I seem to sleep well. I >>rise most mornings feeling like I have "been beat with a stick". >>I have been through five sleep studies the first was a "home" study >>ordered by my internist who didn’t believe sleep apnea was "of >>significant impact". The study showed that I had apnea but of "little >>significance" at least according to that internist. I changed internist. >>The second was done in a hospital on order of the pumonologist the >>internist referred me to and showed severe apnea with 57 apneas per hour >>and a oxygen saturation low of 83%. The third was done to titrate me for >>CPAP which was set at 5 cm H2O. I did well for about 8 months. Later >>that year, 1996, I had neck surgery fusing the bottom three disks of my >>lower neck. I still did OK till allergy season got bad. That started a >>series of desperate attempts to get help. I reached the point I was >>falling asleep at stop signs fighting it constantly while driving. I was >>sent back to the sleep lab. The first trip I slept about two hours. They >>reset my pressure at 8 cm experimentally and rescheduled another trip to >>the lab. The second trip, at their expense, was not much more successful >>but my pressure was raised to 11 cm. I still was not doing well and was >>exhibiting symptoms of early heart failure including EKG changes and >>intractable blood pressure problems. I was on four BP medications at >>that time. Finally last fall I had nasal turbinate surgery. I did better >>for a while, and I now seem to be a little better than I was before. I >>can breathe now. But I still have times with splitting headaches, asthma >>and other allergic problems. I have been on allergy desensitization for >>25 years. I take 250 Mg of Methildopa twice per day and 5 Mg of Norvasc >>AM and 2.5Mg PM for HBP. Zyrtec (antihistamine)1 time per day, 12 hr >>Sudafed twice per day. Glynase for diabetes (mild and low dose). 200 Mg >>Allopurinol three times a day for gout. I don’t sleep at all unless I >>have something and I have muscle problems too. It takes Soma and the >>lowest dose of Prosom to get any sleep. I have muscle problems from the >>nerve effects of my neck problem and multiple trigger points. But I >>think that if I could get a good night’s sleep that is a minimal >>problem. I actually think if I could get a night’s sleep that left me >>refreshed and feeling normal in the morning I could live with little >>complaint. I also take NSAIDS for the muscle and joint problems and >>other things for the stomach problems the NSAIDS cause. Interestingly >>the only thing that has helped me recently was the addition of Zyflo a >>special NSAID for inflammation in the respiratory tract, especially the >>lungs. >>I have an appointment with the internist on monday I suspect he is going >>to say I should visit the Sleep Dr. again but I don’t like the guy. He >>seems uninterested and complacent about sleep problems. I think >>pulmonary problems are his main concern. I also have found that none of >>the sleep labs in my area are ASDS certified and I don’t believe the >>doctors. are either. >>I am open to suggestions if anyone has any. Doug what is your view? >>Before I see them, forget it all you Snake Oil nuts. I have tried >>sometime in my life, almost every quack remedy from herbs to >>chiropractors. I think the chiropractors are
… read more »
Response:
From: bill and danae hamlin <bdham…@abts.net> To: Gary Collins <coll…@preferred.com> Subject: Re: Poor sleep Date: Thursday, June 18, 1998 5:24 PM Dear Gary: You are in a "world of hurt!" I am a nonmedical person who does not suffer sleep dep…I spent 14 years with a similar "resume" of treatments, tests & pharmaceuticals for injury induced migraines. I also indulged in various "alternative"s, some of which were helpful, some of which were not. I did have good effects from chiropractic, unlike yourself, and also some success with acupuncture. Contrary to what you may expect, there are many acupuncturists out there who are not MDs, but who’s training far exceeds the quick certificate needed to allow an MD to sign off on acupuncture for insurance. So, finding a clinic with well trained, even if non-medical (by American standards), acupuncturists, is key. Additionally, 80% of the gains in traditional acupuncture come from the herbs administered between treatments, not from the treatments themselves. Subsequent to my acupuncture adventures, I had a (traditionally trained, surgical specialist) friend who’s an MD refer me to a magnetic sleep system. There are varying types; they are not all the same either in technology or efficacy. I borrowed one for a week, then purchased a set; it was an 8 week process for my headaches to clear up (about 80%…I’m still seeking an answer for the last 20%). During the course of that time, my husband’s significant allergy problems cleared up–two years later they only revive if we are off our sleep set for an extended trip. As an unexpected benefit, back problems I’ve had for 2 decades (pursuant to a fracture) were much relieved…not gone, but bearable. I have loaned sleep sets to numerous friends, and THEIR friends, since that time, for a variety of issues, including sleep disorders and unsuccessful back surgeries. While the "success" rate is less than 100%, this is clearly true of the chemical regimen you’re on as well. There are no contraindications with medicines, so the potential down side is just the emotional investment of placing hope in one more thing which may or may not be the answer. For the vast majority of people, though, the magnetic exposure seems to be soothing, and result in enhanced length and quality of sleep, and the predictable improvement in many "weak links" if good sleep is acheived so the body can self heal, as programmed. If you reply with an address, I’d be happy to forward you a copy of an article by Valerie Free, an "alternative" proponent (unaffiliated with any product lines) who hosts symposia on various progressive health topics which draw medical and scientific professionals from around the globe. This is a topic much more familiar in Russia, Germany & the Czech countries than here–also in parts of Asia. None the less, do a search and you’ll find lots of mainstream attention to the use of magnetics for health purposes. (Not your average refrig magnet, & no crystals attached) I have no idea where you’re located, but there are distributors across the country who are willing to loan these products to people who are "desperate", as you said, and allow them to see if they have benefit. There are many others who will sell a sleep set with a 90-day money back offer, since most issues don’t necessarily resolve in a week. It is unlikely that you live in my area, so also unlikely that I would benefit from your trial of these products. Having seen some really miraculous resolutions for people with the kind of experience you’ve listed, I urge you to set some of your skepticism aside and find a way to investigate these technologies that doesn’t leave you financially hung out, but that would require some openmindedness on an unfamiliar topic. One last thought: you may also want to do a search on far-infrared technology and it’s beneficial effects on the body–some of your complaints may be related to ph that’s out of whack. Failing a "find" on the internet, check out Sang Whang’s Reverse Aging (book, probably has to be ordered, my (old) copy lists 201.568.5755 as a fax address. ) I can’t imagine living without adequate sleep–it strikes me as true torture. Good luck in you search for solutions. D. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ——Original Message—– From: Gary Collins <coll…@preferred.com> Newsgroups: alt.support.sleep-disorder Date: Saturday, June 13, 1998 8:53 PM Subject: Poor sleep >I lurk on this group most of the time. Some of the information I see is >useful some is just drivel. That’s not to say it is not a good group it >takes all kinds of people and I realize that some receive help from what >I feel is drivel. I try to contribute from time to time. Lately I have >been too tired to do much of anything. >I have been on CPAP about three years now the first six to eight months >was wonderful total relief. Now, while I am well adjusted to using CPAP >I am not getting a good night’s rest even when I seem to sleep well. I >rise most mornings feeling like I have "been beat with a stick". >I have been through five sleep studies the first was a "home" study >ordered by my internist who didn’t believe sleep apnea was "of >significant impact". The study showed that I had apnea but of "little >significance" at least according to that internist. I changed internist. >The second was done in a hospital on order of the pumonologist the >internist referred me to and showed severe apnea with 57 apneas per hour >and a oxygen saturation low of 83%. The third was done to titrate me for >CPAP which was set at 5 cm H2O. I did well for about 8 months. Later >that year, 1996, I had neck surgery fusing the bottom three disks of my >lower neck. I still did OK till allergy season got bad. That started a >series of desperate attempts to get help. I reached the point I was >falling asleep at stop signs fighting it constantly while driving. I was >sent back to the sleep lab. The first trip I slept about two hours. They >reset my pressure at 8 cm experimentally and rescheduled another trip to >the lab. The second trip, at their expense, was not much more successful >but my pressure was raised to 11 cm. I still was not doing well and was >exhibiting symptoms of early heart failure including EKG changes and >intractable blood pressure problems. I was on four BP medications at >that time. Finally last fall I had nasal turbinate surgery. I did better >for a while, and I now seem to be a little better than I was before. I >can breathe now. But I still have times with splitting headaches, asthma >and other allergic problems. I have been on allergy desensitization for >25 years. I take 250 Mg of Methildopa twice per day and 5 Mg of Norvasc >AM and 2.5Mg PM for HBP. Zyrtec (antihistamine)1 time per day, 12 hr >Sudafed twice per day. Glynase for diabetes (mild and low dose). 200 Mg >Allopurinol three times a day for gout. I don’t sleep at all unless I >have something and I have muscle problems too. It takes Soma and the >lowest dose of Prosom to get any sleep. I have muscle problems from the >nerve effects of my neck problem and multiple trigger points. But I >think that if I could get a good night’s sleep that is a minimal >problem. I actually think if I could get a night’s sleep that left me >refreshed and feeling normal in the morning I could live with little >complaint. I also take NSAIDS for the muscle and joint problems and >other things for the stomach problems the NSAIDS cause. Interestingly >the only thing that has helped me recently was the addition of Zyflo a >special NSAID for inflammation in the respiratory tract, especially the >lungs. >I have an appointment with the internist on monday I suspect he is going >to say I should visit the Sleep Dr. again but I don’t like the guy. He >seems uninterested and complacent about sleep problems. I think >pulmonary problems are his main concern. I also have found that none of >the sleep labs in my area are ASDS certified and I don’t believe the >doctors. are either. >I am open to suggestions if anyone has any. Doug what is your view? >Before I see them, forget it all you Snake Oil nuts. I have tried >sometime in my life, almost every quack remedy from herbs to >chiropractors. I think the chiropractors are responsible for me having >to have neck vertebrae fusion. So I am not very responsive to >alternative quackery. I am also somewhat resentful to conventional >quackery but it seems to have the only answers that have at least >halfway helped. >Sorry for the long post but, I’m desperate. >Thanks for any help in advance. >Gary
